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Thoughts on live techno/bass setup
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Thoughts on live techno/bass setup
Veqtor
I've been working on collecting and compiling a rack for live use.
The 3 4hp modules on the left and right side are actually mounted on the top and bottom using addac mods.

Basic setup is this:
Pamela clocks everything, din->clk/play runs gatestorm
Gatestorm and pamela into drums and er-301
Pressure points generates arps/rythmic cv patterns
Tetrapad is in switches mode toggles stuff on gatestorm and teletype & er-301, also used with spock and gatestorm outs for some channels on TT drums
Drums into MUM M8, Polaris and Erbe-verb, into malekko mute
Teletype & Pressure Points into Argos bleak, into Shapeshifter Pitch 1 & 2, and also multed to ins on er-301
Everything goes into er-301 for mixing, vca's and also generating more voices/chords etc
ER-301 out into MSCL

Not sure about the WORNG LRMSMSLR, was building things around it initially, but as I work with this setup I find myself using it less and less...
Drums -> Mum M8 -> Polaris, is really awesome, so I think I can live without stereo stuff...
Also, since it's techno, I'm leaning more and more towards just doing things in mono and maybe adding some sort of pseudo-spread in the er-301

Thoughts, ideas?

pieter
If you get all those tiptop modules, wouldn't it be better to just get a drum machine out of the box? There is no modulation on those modules and you can get 808/909 sounds in a variety of ways. There are more interesting modular solutions for drums, like the Bassilimus Iteritas Alter, the Chimera, and for compactness: Erica Pico Drums. I would also choose some more directly controllable sequencers, like Euclidean Circles, to be able to change rhythms on the fly.

Mylar Melodies did a series of Youtube videos on how to make a live rig for techno. If you haven't already, you should check them out!
Mercutio
Take a tr-09 (sequencer, multi sounds, mixer and clock)...you can't go wrong...

Add a distortion and a filter in the modular to play with it...

For bass and tom... Basimilus or Mod/brane or ssf entity,...
tuj
while some people hate on the TTA xox modules, they do nail the xox sounds. I personally have all of them but my system is large. If I was working with a system this size, I would probably use TTA ONE x2 to handle the drums, maybe even x3. Or Pico Drums, that's another option.
racooniac
if its about nailing that ONE sound you wont be able to change, why not just take a few tiptop one modules and use one of those thousand trX0X samplepacks?

if i would do drums in my rack i would do it with NE BIA, NE LIP, SSF Entity, SSF Percussion, Mutant Modules etc. where i could do sounds that you cannot easily download as a sample pack already.
Shledge
Replace tiptop drums modules with a 1010 bitbox - allows ableton live like slicing, sampling, triggering of samples etc.
Jaypee
Shledge wrote:
Replace tiptop drums modules with a 1010 bitbox - allows ableton live like slicing, sampling, triggering of samples etc.


Exactly what I was about to write.

Had all tiptop modules...the samples I've been collecting sound so much better + the lack of CV...go for an euroack sampler!
Veqtor
Actually, the TTA drums will stay no matter what. Nothing compares to proper 909 sounds for techno SlayerBadger!
I imagine I will, be "playing" them manually. I'm not so much for 909 emulations or samples, it was either the TTA modules or an actual 909.

Also, the ER-301 can handle all my sample needs, so I will likely be layering TTA drums w. samples that do not need the same expressiveness...

I've been eyeing the BIA but... I can't seem to find demos of it sounding anything but very harsh, and I want to have control over distortion color, so I'd rather do it in the M8 or Polaris, or the ER-301...
Shledge
Fair snuff. I'm not overly familiar with the ER-301.
wonkychris
Trad Techno needs the 909 sounds

Soundsystems in clubs almost all effectively run mono. Reggae soundsystems are all mono. Mono works in that environment as there is another other stuff to worry about...
pieter
wonkychris wrote:
Trad Techno needs the 909 sounds


If you define traditional techno in terms of 909 sounds, sure. But I think that is a needlessly restrictive definition.
th0mas
sell the TT909 sounds and get a Nava 909?
in it's space you could get another analog osc, a delay, and more filters, some VCAs, maths or another EG,
Veqtor
th0mas wrote:
sell the TT909 sounds and get a Nava 909?
in it's space you could get another analog osc, a delay, and more filters, some VCAs, maths or another EG,


Well, I think I have oscillator duties covered by the shapeshifter and the er-301
Delay: ER-301
Filters: Polaris, M8 and ER-301 should be enough?
VCA's: ER-301
Maths, sure... but I think I got most modulation bases covered with pamela's and teletype...

I really want to avoid analog osc drift...
Thing is... I think I want to limit myself in terms of what can go wrong...
In this sense, sticking to a limited set of modules and parameters feels like a good way of playing it safe...

Also I want to build a patch that can stay fully patched at all times and just go to a venue, hook up to sound system, and it all just works from the moment I press play on pamela's
Shledge
pieter wrote:
wonkychris wrote:
Trad Techno needs the 909 sounds


If you define traditional techno in terms of 909 sounds, sure. But I think that is a needlessly restrictive definition.


I agree. I make a lot of techno but usually either make my own drums from scratch or use other sounds. It's a needless limitation.

Quote:
I really want to avoid analog osc drift...


A well designed analogue oscillator shouldn't drift once warmed up. Modern oscillators have tempcos etc. included to compensate for it.
pieter
Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds to me you have already made up your mind quite firmly. Then what's the point in asking for thoughts and ideas?

Veqtor wrote:

Also I want to build a patch that can stay fully patched at all times and just go to a venue, hook up to sound system, and it all just works from the moment I press play on pamela's


Then why not do it all on your laptop? I think the modular approach may not fit very well what you want to do with it.
Tumulishroomaroom
I can understand this approach, but with such a system I don't seem much room for having a set that evolves. Pamela is definitely not hands on to have variation in the drums and Gatestorm doesn't look too good on that front either.

I would definitely want at least a couple knobby trigger modules and something to change the modulations patterns and/or melody of your oscillators(even if melody may not be the main concern depending the kind of techno you'd like to make)

You can pre-patch a banger tune but how are you going to transition to the next one and so on for 1h ? That's the real problem in live euro. There are quite a few solutions (see VCOADSR now ebbcidic rig on youtube or mylar melodies, two different killer takes on the subject) but I don't think such a rig would allow you this. But then I'm not familiar with all of the modules here.
TemplarK
TTA 909 modules are killer I'd keep them too.
moremagic
youre gonna need to mix CVs at some point i would think, and maybe even some audio (these drums to this filter, those to that one), so i would suggest some more mixers
Shledge
Cut down on self-contained modules as a whole and get more modules with basic functions. I understand you want live usage, but you're not going to really understand modular synthesis with the above IMO - if anything, a computer would be more efficient if you intend to have live music that you can change over time.
Veqtor
pieter wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds to me you have already made up your mind quite firmly. Then what's the point in asking for thoughts and ideas?

Veqtor wrote:

Also I want to build a patch that can stay fully patched at all times and just go to a venue, hook up to sound system, and it all just works from the moment I press play on pamela's


Then why not do it all on your laptop? I think the modular approach may not fit very well what you want to do with it.


Yes, that's certainly one possibility, I have to admit, I am sort of trying to replicate a somewhat ableton-ish approach here, but what I believe/hope this setup acheives, is a different coupling between "patterns"

Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
I can understand this approach, but with such a system I don't seem much room for having a set that evolves. Pamela is definitely not hands on to have variation in the drums and Gatestorm doesn't look too good on that front either.

I would definitely want at least a couple knobby trigger modules and something to change the modulations patterns and/or melody of your oscillators(even if melody may not be the main concern depending the kind of techno you'd like to make)

You can pre-patch a banger tune but how are you going to transition to the next one and so on for 1h ? That's the real problem in live euro. There are quite a few solutions (see VCOADSR now ebbcidic rig on youtube or mylar melodies, two different killer takes on the subject) but I don't think such a rig would allow you this. But then I'm not familiar with all of the modules here.


I've looked a lot at mylars and VCOADSR's setups and I was thinking I would try this alternative approach of building a number of presets on the gatestorm, shapeshifter and teletype. And also some alternative mixes on the er-301.
My idea is to also use a WMD QAAF to bring in more sources into the ER-301 without aliasing. That way I should be able to use channels 3 and 4 as sends to the M8 and Polaris respectively.
CV mixing is an issue, I haven't found a module that can do this in a "preset" way yet (with recallable mixes).

Basically, since so few modules support the select bus format, my approach is to setup this patch I have in mind, and restrict myself to building presets on the TT and Gatestorm. For Pamela's, my main goal is to generate LFO's and gate sequences with various degrees of "swing" to shuffle things up a bit. It also, since it has rock-solid timing, serves as my main clock.

Shledge wrote:
Cut down on self-contained modules as a whole and get more modules with basic functions. I understand you want live usage, but you're not going to really understand modular synthesis with the above IMO - if anything, a computer would be more efficient if you intend to have live music that you can change over time.


No offense but I was arguing about getting a serge vcs equivalent in eurorack in this forum before makenoise released maths...


Thanks for all the suggestions people,... I guess I've already made up my mind. I will bump this thread once I've played with this setup a bit and possibly post a practice set. Maybe my line of thinking is flawed but at least this way we will find out for sure screaming goo yo
calvinsomething
Just so you're aware, Surgeon took the Rene out of his live set because humid air/sweaty fingers can affect the responsiveness of the touch plates.
Veqtor
calvinsomething wrote:
Just so you're aware, Surgeon took the Rene out of his live set because humid air/sweaty fingers can affect the responsiveness of the touch plates.


Ouch, good to know... Perhaps I need to replace the pp then
Tumulishroomaroom
About CV Mixing presets, I think the WMD Sequential Switch Matrix would do that, wouldn't it ? Seems Taylor made for such routing purposes and does have preset memory if I'm not mistaken. Maybe someone who actually has the module can chime in.
Veqtor
Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
About CV Mixing presets, I think the WMD Sequential Switch Matrix would do that, wouldn't it ? Seems Taylor made for such routing purposes and does have preset memory if I'm not mistaken. Maybe someone who actually has the module can chime in.


Isn't it only at unity gain though?
damase
Keep in mind, you have all sorts of modules in the rack that require lots of programming in the rack, and none of them are made to work together for a common workflow... the ER 301, teletype, shapeshifter, gatestorm, pamelas... none of their presets will follow each other and it would be super cumbersome to switch all these settings on the fly even if they are all saved as presets fashion. In addition to being a bit time consuming to set everything up into a workflow. In a live environment, i try to keep these type of things to a minimum personally. Sometimes, less is more

You have the TTA drum modules, i would also recommend checking out the Circadian Rhythm. Its easy to program and contain the framework for a live set all out at your fingertips. Its also very groovy which is important for techno.
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