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How would you make analog tympani? Any examples?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author How would you make analog tympani? Any examples?
Infrablue
Really want to make some analog Tympani.

I searched and found this amazing, but sadly rare instrument.

How would I do this?

I do have an Mbrane11 but not quite getting this kinda thing.

This vid blows me away.

Synare Tympani:

MindMachine
Back in the 80's when I had a Korg MS-20 I could get decent tympani. Not as good as that video. I remember using the Pink noise as part of the sound and modulation, but I can't recall the rest. If I had an MS-20 in front of me I could dial it in. Tympani, explosions and birds were so good on the MS-20. I also liked the patch books Koto sound.

I recently bought a Boss SPD-One, so my tympani is covered. Mr. Green
commodorejohn
Yeah, if I had to pick a synth the MS-20 would be a good choice. Generally speaking, the body of the sound can be done with a ring-modulation metallic timbre dialed in appropriately (octave + 4th interval seems to be good.) On the MS-20, oscillator 2 can provide that while oscillator 1 can be set to a triangle wave down on the lower part of the ring-mod pair to boost the low end a bit. Noise should be added in appropriately, while the lowpass filter (with resonance off) shapes the overall timbral envelope. The high-pass filter can have the resonance cranked up to just this side of self-oscillation and set to a static frequency to provide "body resonance." Beyond that, it's largely a matter of setting up the envelopes correctly.
dashwood
I would say you could get very close to that on a Vermona DRM1.
thevegasnerve
I had luck with a Vermont Kick Lancet..
lisa
This might be of interest:

https://github.com/micjamking/synth-secrets/blob/master/part-32.md
revtor
That’s Synare sounds very realistic. If I was looking for a Timpani sound that was so realistic I would probably just use a sample.

Years ago Elhardt on the MOTM maillist put together a bunch of synthesis patches and notes for doing very realistic percussion. He was (is?) a champ of that. Not sure if He’s here on muffs...

Steve
JohnLRice
This may be interesting, lead to extended investigation or be totally useless? hmmm..... hihi I first saw information like this in The Acoustical Foundations Of Music by John Backus, which was the required text book for a physics of acoustics class I took in college.

http://ummalqura-phy.com/HYPER1/cirmem.html
Infrablue
Thank you, guys.

Samples tympani sure can be great for sure.

I'm just working on a long term classical electronic album and trying to pretty much keep it to analog.

Even though turns out Tomita used a real sitar on Firebird and actually sang the lead female (gorgeous) melody for Venus in The Planets, I can't quite bring myself to use samples in this project. Just boundaries I'm setting for myself to see what I can come up with using mainly analog. Not usually for emulation but for similarity of expression.

lol for years I just wondered in amazement how Tomita synthesized that female voice.
Infrablue
JohnLRice wrote:
This may be interesting, lead to extended investigation or be totally useless? hmmm..... hihi I first saw information like this in The Acoustical Foundations Of Music by John Backus, which was the required text book for a physics of acoustics class I took in college.

http://ummalqura-phy.com/HYPER1/cirmem.html


Very cool and a little over my head as far as implementation for synthesis but that's not a bad thing to come across for me. Thank you! smile
JohnLRice
Infrablue wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
This may be interesting, lead to extended investigation or be totally useless? hmmm..... hihi I first saw information like this in The Acoustical Foundations Of Music by John Backus, which was the required text book for a physics of acoustics class I took in college.

http://ummalqura-phy.com/HYPER1/cirmem.html


Very cool and a little over my head as far as implementation for synthesis but that's not a bad thing to come across for me. Thank you! smile
Don't feel bad, it's over my head too! hihi oops I used to play acoustic timpani up through the college level so this was very interesting to me.

At the very least, if you ponder all the ways that the head can vibrate, you might try using several synth voices mixed together with possibly envelope followers tracking some voices that affect are patched to affect other voices? hmmm.....

If you've ever been a fan of Larry Fast and his great Synergy albums you might recall the pretty darn good timpani he synthesized (especially for 1978) on the Chords album? Sounds like he used a fair amount of noise (maybe a tad too much?) and some part of the sound has a pitch drop (or maybe a filter roll off on the reverberated sound?), plus likely multiple reverb units/passes? Maybe you can research how he did this or maybe even write to him and ask? If you talk to him tell him he is one of my greatest musical heros! Hug
Infrablue
JohnLRice wrote:
Infrablue wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
This may be interesting, lead to extended investigation or be totally useless? hmmm..... hihi I first saw information like this in The Acoustical Foundations Of Music by John Backus, which was the required text book for a physics of acoustics class I took in college.

http://ummalqura-phy.com/HYPER1/cirmem.html


Very cool and a little over my head as far as implementation for synthesis but that's not a bad thing to come across for me. Thank you! smile
Don't feel bad, it's over my head too! hihi oops I used to play acoustic timpani up through the college level so this was very interesting to me.

At the very least, if you ponder all the ways that the head can vibrate, you might try using several synth voices mixed together with possibly envelope followers tracking some voices that affect are patched to affect other voices? hmmm.....

If you've ever been a fan of Larry Fast and his great Synergy albums you might recall the pretty darn good timpani he synthesized (especially for 1978) on the Chords album? Sounds like he used a fair amount of noise (maybe a tad too much?) and some part of the sound has a pitch drop (or maybe a filter roll off on the reverberated sound?), plus likely multiple reverb units/passes? Maybe you can research how he did this or maybe even write to him and ask? If you talk to him tell him he is one of my greatest musical heros! Hug


I wasn't aware of this musician. So glad I am now! Beautiful work. I think I will reach out to him. I will convey your message if I reach! Thanks, John!
Infrablue
thevegasnerve wrote:
I had luck with a Vermont Kick Lancet..


I didn't know about this Vermona!

Any chance you could send a sound sample of some tympani from this?
Infrablue
cool.... found the patch diagram with suggested playing for the MS-20 tympani patch...
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manuals/ms20/20semusin.html#top
Navs
I was going to suggestion variations of FM, wavefolding or simply mixing sine waves, but that first example sounds like Karplus Strong, no?

The way the sound craps out with pitch modulation is a give-away hihi
MindMachine
Infrablue wrote:
cool.... found the patch diagram with suggested playing for the MS-20 tympani patch...
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manuals/ms20/20semusin.html#top


Interesting. I didn't use the ESP section or whatever it is called. It was pretty useless. But I recall fading in more pink noise for a higher strike.

BMMM Bmmm BMMM Bmmmm

Nice find on the patch sheet.
The Real MC
Years ago I dialed up a pretty good tympani on my Memorymoog. I started with a Simmons drum patch and added some voice modulation.
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