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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

NONLINEAR LABS C15 DIGITAL SYNTH
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author NONLINEAR LABS C15 DIGITAL SYNTH
dopefiend
http://www.nonlinearlabs.de

Haven't seen any discussion about this baby around here. Looks kinda' interesting; from the same dude that designed NI Reaktor.
Gribs
I haven’t followed it tbh. I read about it heard people talk about it and Stephan Schmitt. The sounds I hear in the demo videos sound like Reaktor Spark, which is not surprising.

I think the instrument will end up having a life like the Hartmann Neuron.
listentoaheartbeat
Gribs wrote:
I haven’t followed it tbh. I read about it heard people talk about it and Stephan Schmitt. The sounds I hear in the demo videos sound like Reaktor Spark, which is not surprising.


More like Kontour, but some of the ideas are already present in Spark.

This synth is more for the adventurous keyboardist than it is for the synthesist seeking exploration and experiment. It‘s all about traditional real time input – a weirdly conservative yet radical approach.
dopefiend
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Gribs wrote:
I haven’t followed it tbh. I read about it heard people talk about it and Stephan Schmitt. The sounds I hear in the demo videos sound like Reaktor Spark, which is not surprising.


More like Kontour, but some of the ideas are already present in Spark.

This synth is more for the adventurous keyboardist than it is for the synthesist seeking exploration and experiment. It‘s all about traditional real time input – a weirdly conservative yet radical approach.


Yes. Exactly. And that's what I like about it. A similar experience would be the CS-80, which relies a lot on the technical playing nuances of the keyboardist. The attack times on the '80 are disappointingly limited (slowest is only 2-3 secs, I think), so if you want a slowly rising/swelling pad, your fingers need to do the working. I'm interested.... hyper
stikygum
Seems pretty damn cool to me. My only concern is how the editing on it is.
dubonaire
Yes I think it looks cool. I wish I was a good enough keyboardist to do it justice. And times like this I really wished I lived in Berlin.
cscairney
sounds very good to me

https://soundcloud.com/petermmahr/sets/nonlinear-labs-c15
strettara
From what I’ve seen it sounds themselves are great and I love the concept. But I’ve yet to see anyone use it other than as a gimmick. Used as a solo instrument, the sounds are lifeless and boring because of the lack of lfos imo. I mean there’s a reason the celesta is not widely used as a solo instrument - the sound gets boring pretty fast. Which might make you wonder why the piano has enjoyed so much success too... there seems to be a sweet spot for our ears for solo instruments and if you deviate too far from that then no matter how amazing it sounds, you just can’t take very much of it. Ringing bell like sounds and chimes and glassy textures can’t really bring it off if your whole performance is just that.

I don’t know, I think ita great concept - I love the idea of a standalone electronic musical instrument - but I struggle to see a use for it in actual music making, unless as a component in a mix, which is not what it was designed for.
Feinstrom
strettara wrote:
I don’t know, I think ita great concept - I love the idea of a standalone electronic musical instrument - but I struggle to see a use for it in actual music making, unless as a component in a mix, which is not what it was designed for.

I think (and this thought is the result of talking to Stephan Schmitt) it was designed as a band/ensemble instrument, and the demos on the Nonlinear website show that aspect as well as the solo pieces.
The C15 sounds as boring and lifeless as its player - if you want a lively sound, you have to squeeze it out of the C15. There's a lot of customizing the C15's controls prior to playing it - it's part of the editing/programming process.
BTW: There's nothing wrong with putting some chorusing or phasing to the C15 to get some instant movement.

Cheers,
Bert
strettara
Feinstrom wrote:
strettara wrote:
I don’t know, I think ita great concept - I love the idea of a standalone electronic musical instrument - but I struggle to see a use for it in actual music making, unless as a component in a mix, which is not what it was designed for.

I think (and this thought is the result of talking to Stephan Schmitt) it was designed as a band/ensemble instrument, and the demos on the Nonlinear website show that aspect as well as the solo pieces.
The C15 sounds as boring and lifeless as its player - if you want a lively sound, you have to squeeze it out of the C15. There's a lot of customizing the C15's controls prior to playing it - it's part of the editing/programming process.
BTW: There's nothing wrong with putting some chorusing or phasing to the C15 to get some instant movement.

Cheers,
Bert

Fair enough, you obviously know a lot more about it. It struck me more as being a solo instrument like a harpsichord, so that was where my thinking was taking me. Put it the way you do and it makes a lot more sense.
Funky40
Feinstrom wrote:

it was designed as a band/ensemble instrument, and the demos on the Nonlinear website show that aspect as well as the solo pieces.

i think it comes quite good over what the C15 wants to be, looking at their page.

Feinstrom wrote:

The C15 sounds as boring and lifeless as its player - if you want a lively sound, you have to squeeze it out of the C15.

the C15 falls apart exactly here at its basic concept.
The whole concept was halfways killed by going for a very tame and , to me, in fact a very restricted concept in regards to controllers....and to cancel midi out entirely

to me there has been alots of potential that was just thrown out of the window for nothing.
i should take my macmini and visit them and show them where you can go today with software, *based* on patching with vst-FX.........and mapping CCs to controllers.

just that you lose when patching ITB, due to huuuge latencys.
the point of something like the C15 would be to create "That" integrated concept that you never can have by patching in your computer/DAW.

But they lost it by going for a very restricted controller setup and and more so by NOT allowing the user to expand over midi.
Since midi can also be used to map controllers, and not only to be used for the keyboardplaying part.
Its like cutting one third off of a snowboard and thinking you created a cool snowboard........


......the cut off part is just not replaceable, regardless how cool the rest is.
Thats what held alots of Peoples off of the C15.
Feinstrom
Funky40 wrote:
i should take my macmini and visit them and show them where you can go today with software, *based* on patching with vst-FX.........and mapping CCs to controllers.

Now that's a remarkably good idea - yes, go ahead and show the founder of Native instruments a few computer tricks!

If I remember correctly, he also told me something about MIDI being not able to handle the amount of data used within the C15. The controllers have a very high resolution, which is noticable while playing.

The C15 is an instrument that is aimed at a rather small number of synth players, I don't think there's anything wrong about that.
If anyone wants the (approximated) C15 sound but needs full MIDI, they can just get the software for a fraction of the price. Or even connect the oftware to a ROLI seabord, a Haken Continuum or a DIY laser harp - the sky is your limit!
I just prefer everything combined in a wonderful instrument - and I use MIDI for other things...

Cheers,
Bert
strettara
Feinstrom wrote:

I just prefer everything combined in a wonderful instrument - and I use MIDI for other things...


I totally get that and I share your sentiment. I think the main problem is that its architecture is so different from anything else out there that it would take a lot of time to get to know the full potential of the instrument. I mean we can all look at a subtractive synth and more or less understand what it is capable of, but that is not true of the C-15 with its feedback bus design. Which is possibly why they have the hire/purchase model.

One thing I think is very smart in terms of performance is using a single encoder for parameter settings. It means that when you switch between presets you are not left with pots at the wrong settings, and of course you're not really supposed to be twiddling knobs during the performance anyway, but rather using the strips and keys to control and shape the sound.

Overall it seems very well thought out and playable. In fact the more I look at it and watch demonstrations, the more I'm convinced by it. If I could readily imagine how it would be of use in performing my music of choice (baroque) I would be very tempted. It could lead down some very exciting avenues I think.
Funky40
Feinstrom wrote:

Now that's a remarkably good idea - yes, go ahead and show the founder of Native instruments a few computer tricks!

i´m under the impression that you have not understood my point in any way, not the slightest bit it seems.
I know btw. who Stephan Schmidt is wink

my point is that hands on control is a necessary thing.
the better the soundengine the bigger the win could be, finally.
the two touchstripps can´t replace 30-40-50 knobs or so.

also did you not understood the midi part of my post.
sending in midi data from a controller is an entirely different thing than sending out midi data of what happens inside the C15 ( in case it had midi)
But true, if the C15 has no midi at all, which i was aware of,.....would it mean they probably had to add midi just to make a communication from outside to the C15 possible.
I have no clue how much of a hassle that would have been and how much comlicatiosn and latency that could have added, true.


i would have bought a C15 but couldn´t based on the lack of midi access for additional controllers.
even if the C15 was made with a small target market in mind, its kind of a waisted chance.........
for both parties in my opinion. And "thats" really a waiste, if you get what i mean ?
Funky40
Feinstrom wrote:

If anyone wants the (approximated) C15 sound but needs full MIDI, they can just get the software for a fraction of the price.

What is the software again ?
I forgot it.

i think i even have it and tested it some time ago........
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