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Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator
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Author Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator
ignatius
from FB page smile

Quote:
I’m not going to NAMM because I’m busy with this:

The Piston Honda Mark III is a dual morphing wavetable oscillator with waveshaping audio inputs and unison detune. The three axis sliders create a waveform for each selected oscillator to play from the internal “cube” of 8x8x8 16-bit waveforms, morphed at full resolution in all three dimensions (the oscillators may each play a different waveform). The voltage-controlled preset manager stores a bank of these settings to be recalled at any time, with a virtual fourth dimension of morphing when the manager is in “continuous” mode. An orange 128x32 OLED display displays the current waveform for the selected oscillator in realtime, its frequency, and the selected preset and wave selection. The rotary encoder changes system settings on the display, but it’s not necessary to interact with the display menus for any performance purpose.

I’ve heard every user suggestion about the previous MKII generation and fully modernized the design, now operating as a dual oscillator in the same 17HP space. The infamous aggressive character of the Piston Honda is fully present, with the added clarity of the 16-bit wavetable engine. The second oscillator’s frequency controls can be slaved to the first. Each oscillator has its own unison detune function as well, for a maximum of four stacked oscillators sounding at once. The oscillator can alternatively run as a nonlinear waveshaper, processing a dedicated audio input through the selected wavetable with voltage-controlled drive. When running in its normal oscillator mode, this input instead provides thru-zero frequency modulation. Waveforms are selected from the internal memory of 8 collections: additive harmonic structures, harsh LFSR progressions, restored waveforms inspired by classic synthesizers, and some special content from my favorite modular artists. You can load user wave data (16-bit WAV format) using the front-panel microSD card slot.

Piston Honda Mk III will be available in April/May 2018. Price is TBA, but it won’t be that much more expensive than the Piston Honda MKII.

ABOUT THE MARK III SERIES:

The Industrial Music Electronics Mark III series features metal shaft potentiometers secured to the faceplate (on large knob controls), shrouded power header with reverse voltage protection, and a small OLED display for each module’s edit facility. A voltage-controlled preset manager provides morphing control between 8 active presets per bank. CV inputs on digital circuits respond to positive and negative voltages.


uniquepersonno2
ignatius wrote:
from FB page smile


Wow! That's crazy. Might have to get that. I like the SD card option. That's really cool.
vytis
Super cool! Despite of all the new additions I hope it retains the original's crunchy vibe Rockin' Banana!
gonkulator
Wow, a total makeover, inside and out. we're not worthy
Misk
The ability to load wavetables is pretty bitchin. I've got a pretty large kyma collection i'd like to throw into this!
MechaSeb
vytis wrote:
Super cool! Despite of all the new additions I hope it retains the original's crunchy vibe Rockin' Banana!


Quote:
The infamous aggressive character of the Piston Honda is fully present, with the added clarity of the 16-bit wavetable engine.


But yeah, would like to hear it first too.
MossGarden
Oh boy! I was going to try and grab an E352 this year! I may want both eek!
Joe.
MossGarden wrote:
Oh boy! I was going to try and grab an E352 this year! I may want both eek!


E352 looks like it'll be much better at clouds (8 vs 4 simultaneous waveforms?) and I cant see any control over the piston Honda's unison detune.

I definitely want to hear some demos soon, so much CV control love
MossGarden
LoFi Junglist wrote:
MossGarden wrote:
Oh boy! I was going to try and grab an E352 this year! I may want both eek!


E352 looks like it'll be much better at clouds (8 vs 4 simultaneous waveforms?) and I cant see any control over the piston Honda's unison detune.

I definitely want to hear some demos soon, so much CV control love


I'll be interested to hear it too, also 4ms have their 6 voice Wavetable OSC coming this year as well, my wallet screams...
starthief
MossGarden wrote:
Oh boy! I was going to try and grab an E352 this year! I may want both eek!


This does look like a "both" situation. Chocolate and peanut butter.

I'm actually wondering whether PHMK3 might be a contender to replace my HDMK2.
rytamura
Surprised to see the two CVs will accept *bipolar 10v* signals, which may be incompatible to the existing harvestman modules that works with 0-5v unipolar CVs. confused
For example, the Stilton hammer mkII will not fully modulate PHmk3's waveforms by itself?
hawkfuzz
Presets and SD loading is cool Curious of the morphing works. Really like the this thing will be a FM monster.
Pighood
JESUS CHRIST fap fap fap...
esko997
Oh boy woah woah woah
reodjectz
sold!
jwm
when the turning machine went from knight rider to single leds i was all like

sad banana

now the piston is going from 7 segment displays to a screen and im all like

Dead Banana
Futuresound
I’m impressed it’s the same size.
brianobush
Wondering if the format will be the same as used in WaveEdit (by Synthesis Tech).
Bob Borries
Is there a single audio waveshaping input or 2 of them for stereo?
Carrousel
^ looks like 2, one for each osc. I massively want one of these things...
Muse FTW
I like having more screens but damn I wish they were a little bigger.
Sinamsis
YESSSSSSS. Haha, my bank account is f'd thanks to the Governor.... wish we'd get some news on BL II as well. I'll definitely be snagging this as soon as it comes out, and it won't be replacing any of my other Harvestman modules.... I'm just going to build a separate case for them.
phase ghost
This looks pretty awesome. I still burn ROM's for my MKI, but it's not for the faint of heart. Always wished the loading process was a bit easier. Might have to pick this one up.
Benoua
sd cards seems pretty fun.
talfred
phase ghost wrote:
This looks pretty awesome. I still burn ROM's for my MKI, but it's not for the faint of heart. Always wished the loading process was a bit easier. Might have to pick this one up.


How do you do that?

I have the first version, great oscillator. I'm not getting v3. If I'd get another wavetable it would be the nw Qu-Bit Scanned wavetables module shown now at NAMM
tbecker
It sounds like in the waveshaper mode you get CV control that multiplies the ext signal. In the MKII this was done with the CV jack in the gain section. Does the CV jack in each OSC section offer a similiar CV control? I really liked the CV gain in the MKII because you can use it like a dirty/crunchy VCA and makes for great self-patching! Here is hoping that each waveshaper can have its own waveform and own ext / CV control inputs...
Zifor
Well , This is amazing hyper
governor blacksnake
Some notes on the Piston mkIII:

- Each of the two oscillators can be switched into the waveshaper mode known from the MKII. The AC FM ext in on each osc (and its nearby attenuator) will process the external audio signal. The oscillator's Big Knob will then control the gain (the main CV attenuverter will provide CV to that parameter). The final version of the module will most likely have the output of each oscillator normalled to the FM input of the other. The FM and CV attenuverters are able to be controlled by the preset manager.

- If you prefer that your coarse tune uses a little knob and the fine tune uses the big knob, there's a global setting to switch that. (I'm a recent convert. It's called Mike Brown Mode.)

- The unison detune is available per-oscillator, for a total of four stacked oscillators when the "link" mode is active. It runs an additional copy of its oscillator with a small amount of detune. When in the external waveshaping mode, the unison slave will instead use a wavetable slightly morphed from the original.

- Each oscillator can have a different programmed waveform by using its "select" button and moving the sliders. The display will decrease the confusion that the user often feels when multifunctional controls are used. The state of the select button also determines if each oscillator responds to the waveform CV inputs.

- Every feature from the Piston mk2 is present and improved with the exception of LFO mode. We had to AC couple the outputs to improve the audio performance. Overall, you'll notice a drastic shift towards the most performable interface possible, where the concept of each module is more focused with no distraction (typically each mk3 module will do a particular task very well, instead of trying to offer a half-dozen different kinds of things with a compromised user interface as a result). There will be a nice LFO happening later.

- The main focus of the MkIII series is repeatable performance setup, where one may quickly move between different sets of stored sounds and settings. Each module with this feature has a standardized interface of a rotary encoder, display, button, CV input, and small potentiometer.

The preset manager operates in several modes: discrete (encoder clicks through each of the 8 active presets in a bank, CV input and potentiometer do the same), continuous (encoder selects the preset base number, the pot and cv input will smoothly morph the non-pitch controls across the entire preset bank and wrap around to the base) and All (all settings are morphed, discrete settings like morph discontinuity and unison enable will change as each preset boundary is passed).

It makes more sense when you have a few of these mk3 modules together, acting from a common CV control in a multi-piece performance context (even a simple multiple module can bring these things together). Or you can just hit it with a slow LFO and enjoy the sounds transforming into entirely different ones, where you only need to touch one control to accomplish it instead of a dozen. Presets are stored on an onboard EEPROM.

- There will not be a Tyme Sefari MkIII or Stillson Hammer MkIII any time soon, there's lots of life left in that hardware.

- Support will continue with the already-promised firmware upgrades to several of the mkII modules.

- Yes, this oscillator accepts waveEdit files.

- There will be a few more mk3s finished shortly. Performance-ready versions of old favorites with some intense new functionality, and then a few processors that go where modules fear to tread. If it gets uncomfortable, just keep mashing that continuous preset control. You'll probably find a sweet spot somewhere in there.
Sinamsis
That's great news! I can't wait to see what's to come. It looks like my 168 hp Harvestman row won't be enough. I'm going to have to built a new case for these! There are a couple modules that I'm anxiously awaiting. Mainly the BL II, Andore, and the performance mixer or whatever it is. Now PH MK III is on the list. I was going to pick up a second Kermit, but I guess I'll have to wait for the new LFO. Is there a replacement for the Malgorithm? Next to my Polivoks VCF (which was one of my first modules), it's one of my oldest modules and used in almost every patch.
hawkfuzz
All good news! Looking forward to the rest of the line and whatever else may come between.
phase ghost
talfred wrote:

How do you do that?


Pickit programmer, and a little IC socket / header circuit I slapped together. Someone wrote a Python script ages ago and put it in the Harvestman subforum. The files need to be unsigned 8-bit wav files. Audacity can format them. Some wave editors struggle with making that format.

Like I said, not for the faint of heart. But, not terribly hard after you've done a few.
sackley
Much respect to Gov & IME. Preset surfing would be super cool. I love my little Harvestman/IME case. Even though I don't feel the need to add anything to it, I enjoying seeing the product line and concepts develop.
Funky40
the +- CV is a cool thing !
but that it is +-10V is IMO a much questionable decission.


while we had in the past some confusion on CVs,
some beeing 10V, some 8V, some 5V, have i seen in the last years many many of the newer CV modules beeing 5V only. ( unipolar or bipolar)

if i had to gain up every CV to control a PH-III, .......well its those small things that kill the fun with modular for me.
gladly i allready know it. so i turn off of such modules........regardless how good they migjht sound or how much i want to have it.
patchfun first
governor blacksnake
Funky40 wrote:
the +- CV is a cool thing !
but that it is +-10V is IMO a much questionable decission.


while we had in the past some confusion on CVs,
some beeing 10V, some 8V, some 5V, have i seen in the last years many many of the newer CV modules beeing 5V only. ( unipolar or bipolar)

if i had to gain up every CV to control a PH-III, .......well its those small things that kill the fun with modular for me.
gladly i allready know it. so i turn off of such modules........regardless how good they migjht sound or how much i want to have it.
patchfun first


Don't worry, that +/-10V range is just the voltage range to which the module will respond (the converters have a sufficient resolution to justify that range), not the range you need to reach to fully sweep the parameter. There's an attenuverter on each input to take it down to your desired range. On certain parameters like the waveform inputs or the preset CV (in continuous mode), there's a wraparound behavior when it pushes the total cv value out of what would be the normal range (typically the usual 0-5v range will give you the expected full-range results with the attenuverter all the way open). The idea is to use subtle bipolar LFO modulations on those parameters and have there be a meaningful range of motion with no intervention from external attenuate/offset modules. The 10V headroom makes it so the envelopes don't clip, either.
Funky40
governor blacksnake wrote:
(typically the usual 0-5v range will give you the expected full-range results with the attenuverter all the way open).

ahh, i see.


you probably want to repost this over and over again.
it´s not obvious without further comments
wink


Thanks
thebrotherspus
governor blacksnake wrote:
Funky40 wrote:
the +- CV is a cool thing !
but that it is +-10V is IMO a much questionable decission.


while we had in the past some confusion on CVs,
some beeing 10V, some 8V, some 5V, have i seen in the last years many many of the newer CV modules beeing 5V only. ( unipolar or bipolar)

if i had to gain up every CV to control a PH-III, .......well its those small things that kill the fun with modular for me.
gladly i allready know it. so i turn off of such modules........regardless how good they migjht sound or how much i want to have it.
patchfun first


Don't worry, that +/-10V range is just the voltage range to which the module will respond (the converters have a sufficient resolution to justify that range), not the range you need to reach to fully sweep the parameter. There's an attenuverter on each input to take it down to your desired range. On certain parameters like the waveform inputs or the preset CV (in continuous mode), there's a wraparound behavior when it pushes the total cv value out of what would be the normal range (typically the usual 0-5v range will give you the expected full-range results with the attenuverter all the way open). The idea is to use subtle bipolar LFO modulations on those parameters and have there be a meaningful range of motion with no intervention from external attenuate/offset modules. The 10V headroom makes it so the envelopes don't clip, either.


That's nice to hear. I was also concerned about the +/-10v. I'm not even sure if I have any cv sources with that wide of a range, haha. Anyway, glad to hear it won't take the full 10v to cv the parameters full range.
The mk3 looks like it will be excellent... looking forward to some demos thumbs up
wavefold
MY ASS IS BLEEDING damn that's pretty sexy
Carrousel
thebrotherspus wrote:


That's nice to hear. I was also concerned about the +/-10v. I'm not even sure if I have any cv sources with that wide of a range, haha


You definitely don't. Max voltage swing in Eurorack is 12V innit.

EDIT: or is that -12 to +12?? So 24v max? Just realised math ch2 can go from -10 to +10!
tbecker
Raven_Martin wrote:
thebrotherspus wrote:


That's nice to hear. I was also concerned about the +/-10v. I'm not even sure if I have any cv sources with that wide of a range, haha


You definitely don't. Max voltage swing in Eurorack is 12V innit.

EDIT: or is that -12 to +12?? So 24v max? Just realised math ch2 can go from -10 to +10!


Don't forget that many gate seq/modules put out +10V (very large list actually) with many offering adjustable pulse width and other cool features that might make for nice PHMKIII modulation...
governor blacksnake
An update:

The unit has been in the hands of an attentive and capable tester and we're closing in on the firmware's completion. The hardware has been declared finished and I'm waiting for its components to arrive at our manufacturer. A full overview video will be produced when I receive the faceplates.

Features added recently:

- Random preset generator. It has an awareness and appreciation for each parameter's contribution to the preset's character, and uses probabilities and ranges appropriate to each parameter. It can be manually activated or pulsed by a gate event (it works even if the preset manager isn't switched on).

- The preset manager can now be advanced by a gate event as well. To edit a single parameter of the active preset's stored value in memory, simply hold the encoder button down while moving the control while the preset manager is active.

- The preset manager has two modes when switched on: discrete and continuous. Discrete splits the CV input and control knob into quantized zones, so you can get all 8 active presets in a 5V range. Voltages outside of this range will "wrap around". You can also select the "base" preset by clicking the rotary encoder. This has more use in "continuous" mode, where the CV input smoothly morphs the panel state to adjacent presets. Imagine subtly and slowly morphing the entire state of the panel with an LFO, as if it were any other parameter. Or, slam across the entire preset memory with a 10V envelope if you like (yes, you can exclude the frequency controls from responding to preset modulation.)

- You can choose whether it's the big or the small knob that controls coarse or fine tune.

- The three (XYZ) wave CV inputs respond to control voltages in a circular way. If a control voltage causes the setting to go above or below the extremes of the slider travel (yes, negative control voltages are equally valid), it will "wrap around", with the expected smooth behavior if morphing is on. This module responds really well to slow, subtle LFO modulation but the inputs have more than enough headroom to accept envelopes and various troublesome control voltages.

- There are a few shortcuts in the interface, most notably the holding of the encoder button while pushing the osc select. That would cause that oscillator's unison detune value to increment (unison values now also include +/-1 octave shifts). The display accurately reflects the state of these parameters in a pleasant way, and I've completely changed my approach in button illumination and display feedback to aid the numerous colorblind enthusiasts of Industrial Music Electronics.

- I've uploaded a few examples of fun sounds to the instagram and soundcloud accounts (username is industrialmusicelectronics)

The module will be completed at the end of March 2018.
gonkulator
governor blacksnake wrote:
An update:


- You can choose whether it's the big or the small knob that controls coarse or fine tune.


The module will be completed at the end of March 2018.


And all the rest too!

The Harvestman w00t
thebrotherspus
Sounds great!
Nice to hear about considering the color blind users (I'm one hihi )

I was just curious what kind of feedback the screen gives... like changing modes etc. Does it give you a bit of info to let you know what exactly is going on?
Thanks!

I'm really looking forward to the mk3 w00t
ludu357
w00t!!
governor blacksnake
thebrotherspus wrote:
Sounds great!
Nice to hear about considering the color blind users (I'm one hihi )

I was just curious what kind of feedback the screen gives... like changing modes etc. Does it give you a bit of info to let you know what exactly is going on?
Thanks!

I'm really looking forward to the mk3 w00t


The dedicated buttons will light red if they are activated. The specifics of their mode are shown on the display (most only have an on/off setting).

The default display shows the waveform of the selected oscillator, its frequency, and the nominal wave selected on the XYZ axes (and small dots that show if the morphing has been disabled on that axis). If you've selected the external input or turned the unison on, this will also be shown. If you select both oscillators for simultaneous editing with the sliders, both waveforms will be shown as well as a selection of the more important parameters from each. (when you change the oscillator selection, it "locks" all three slider axes so you can offset the waveform selection of one of the oscillators along each axis if necessary.) If the preset manager is turned on, it will say "PRESET n" at the top, or "MORPH n" depending on the mode.
orbita
Just ordered a PHmk2 as it was discounted. I guess now I know why smile
thebrotherspus
governor blacksnake wrote:
thebrotherspus wrote:
Sounds great!
Nice to hear about considering the color blind users (I'm one hihi )

I was just curious what kind of feedback the screen gives... like changing modes etc. Does it give you a bit of info to let you know what exactly is going on?
Thanks!

I'm really looking forward to the mk3 w00t


The dedicated buttons will light red if they are activated. The specifics of their mode are shown on the display (most only have an on/off setting).

The default display shows the waveform of the selected oscillator, its frequency, and the nominal wave selected on the XYZ axes (and small dots that show if the morphing has been disabled on that axis). If you've selected the external input or turned the unison on, this will also be shown. If you select both oscillators for simultaneous editing with the sliders, both waveforms will be shown as well as a selection of the more important parameters from each. (when you change the oscillator selection, it "locks" all three slider axes so you can offset the waveform selection of one of the oscillators along each axis if necessary.) If the preset manager is turned on, it will say "PRESET n" at the top, or "MORPH n" depending on the mode.


Very nice. I'm definitely interested in this. There's just something about the piston honda I've always loved. This seems like it'll be a great improvement of an already great module. thumbs up
dooj88
this sounds like an absolute blast. present manager will be amazing to mess with..

governor blacksnake wrote:
the holding of the encoder button while pushing the osc select. That would cause that oscillator's unison detune value to increment (unison values now also include +/-1 octave shifts).


also, the implications of this almost throwaway line?!?

woah Dead Banana
autopoiesis
curious if the stepped detune adjustment will increment in semitones so we can easily find fifths etc as well.

really eager to try one out... first module that seems worthy of possibly replacing my shapeshifter, at least on sound duties Dead Banana
hawkfuzz
Yay for colorblind accessibility
Tonefloat01
I really like the diverse sounds that I can get out of my MkII and can’t wait to get the new MkIII design and will put it side by side with its predecessor in my rack. When will these ship?
orbita
Will PH3 accept Pitch voltage lower than 0? PH2 doesn't play nicely with Mother 32 without needing pitch offsetting.
tbecker
Since mkiii is missing the lfo mode and now has AC coupled output, what is the lowest panel frequency that can be had? Also this means that when in waveshaper mode the lowest frequency output will be? Looking forward to this one!
hawkfuzz
It's not missing the LFO mode.
autopoiesis
Quote:
Every feature from the Piston mk2 is present and improved with the exception of LFO mode. We had to AC couple the outputs to improve the audio performance.


did I miss an update after this?
tbecker
autopoiesis wrote:
Quote:
Every feature from the Piston mk2 is present and improved with the exception of LFO mode. We had to AC couple the outputs to improve the audio performance.


did I miss an update after this?


No, my question was with respect to this latest posted information and nothing is missing except the information I asked. AC coupling output doesn't provide guidance to lowest frequency. I am interested in what this filtration point is. It would be nice if it was close to 1-2 hz but not great set at 30 or higher...
autopoiesis
was in reply to subsequent post - also curious
nolongerhuman
I’d love to see a manual for this, the addition of a screen is cool, but it makes me wonder if there will be menu diving required, or if it’s more what you see is what you get. I don’t mind menus for global settings, but, beyond that it becomes a pain.
governor blacksnake
Manual will be posted soon (shipment to dealers starts Monday).

To open a menu, hold down the encoder knob button and press one of the other buttons on the module. The related menu will appear on the display. Rotate the encoder knob to select the desired menu item, press the encoder button to select or change the item. Press any button to exit to the main display.

The synthesis in Piston Honda 3 is almost entirely usable without entering the menus. The most commonly used "deep" parameters (octave shift and unison) are accessible through direct shortcuts without menu interaction. Settings are automatically saved to nonvolatile memory and are not disturbed by powerdowns or firmware upgrades. Here's a short description of the menus and their contents:

OSCILLATOR menu:

Octave shift (-2 ~ +2)
Unison (0~4, -OCT, +OCT)
Axis morph enable select
Waveform CV input disable
Tone (interpolation style)

OPTIONS menu:

Preset scope (selects whether the preset manager controls all parameters or just the waveform-related ones)
Ctl (selects behavior of preset CV input and attenuator: offset, attenuator, triggered random preset generator, triggered preset advance)
Preset mode at startup (in case you want the module to boot up with the preset manager already enabled, if you've got a bunch of mk3 modules that are being remotely controlled)
Frequency knob mode (assigns big knob to fine tune/little knob to coarse tune, and vice versa)
Load all waveforms from SD card


PRESET menu:

Randomize current
Save current to preset slot
Save all presets
Reload presets
Init all presets
Init current preset
nolongerhuman
That's extremely useful information, and sounds very well thought out.

Knob press + button to select a set of options, that once a patch is set doesn't require much else is about exactly the level of menu interaction I would want.

Cool. Preordered. Looking forward to it.
governor blacksnake
The manual is now online: http://www.industrialmusicelectronics.com/products/21
ignatius
if anyone is in portland this saturday scott will be doing a demo for the PHMKIII at modular8. 2pm. we'll record it and put it up on youtube as well.
BaloErets
ignatius wrote:
if anyone is in portland this saturday scott will be doing a demo for the PHMKIII at modular8. 2pm. we'll record it and put it up on youtube as well.


Big ups for recording this session. Really excited to se the PH3 in action smile
SCOOBA_TANK
BaloErets wrote:
ignatius wrote:
if anyone is in portland this saturday scott will be doing a demo for the PHMKIII at modular8. 2pm. we'll record it and put it up on youtube as well.


Big ups for recording this session. Really excited to se the PH3 in action smile


AWESOME!!! Thanks for this. Can't wait to hear and see this little beast!
PompeiiRuler
Really excited to hear this bad boy in action. Have been holding off purchasing other sound sources and saving for this
Tonefloat01
Just ordered this puppy since it will be a while until the E370 shows up but that’s another thread It's peanut butter jelly time! Guinness ftw!
dooj88
ignatius wrote:
if anyone is in portland this saturday scott will be doing a demo for the PHMKIII at modular8. 2pm. we'll record it and put it up on youtube as well.


hells yeah
autopoiesis
autopoiesis wrote:
curious if the stepped detune adjustment will increment in semitones so we can easily find fifths etc as well.

really eager to try one out... first module that seems worthy of possibly replacing my shapeshifter, at least on sound duties Dead Banana


now that the description is up and a demo is forthcoming, any early indications on this?
Funky40
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Just ordered this puppy since it will be a while until the E370 shows up but that’s another thread It's peanut butter jelly time! Guinness ftw!

this could happen to me also........ oops

how much $ is it ? edit: found it: 525$
nolongerhuman
I picked one up today at Control Voltage while I was down there, just about to fire it up, but immediately noticed the knobs aren't quite what I was expecting.

"The Industrial Music Electronics Mark III series features metal shaft potentiometers secured to the faceplate...."

Nope, they are neither secured to the faceplate nor metal shaft.

waah
governor blacksnake
nolongerhuman wrote:
I picked one up today at Control Voltage while I was down there, just about to fire it up, but immediately noticed the knobs aren't quite what I was expecting.

"The Industrial Music Electronics Mark III series features metal shaft potentiometers secured to the faceplate...."

Nope, they are neither secured to the faceplate nor metal shaft.

waah


We're still a few weeks out from having stock of the metal shaft parts (custom parts from "overseas"). We decided to expedite production of the Piston 3 with our current stock of plastic shaft pots because there are only two pots on that module that can be fitted with the metal shaft pots anyway (the two large tuning knobs). If this is an issue, we can offer the replacement parts once we have them in stock. The text on any dealer's page describing the Piston 3 should NOT mention metal shaft pots anywhere, please tell me if you've seen otherwise.

To clarify: The Mark III pots (excluding this initial run of Piston Honda 3) are specified as metal shaft ONLY on the large knobs (not the small black knobless ones, or the small black/orange ones used on attenuators). The plastic shaft parts are quite reliable, we're only changing over to metal shaft on big knobs due to user preference.
nolongerhuman
governor blacksnake wrote:

We're still a few weeks out from having stock of the metal shaft parts (custom parts from "overseas"). We decided to expedite production of the Piston 3 with our current stock of plastic shaft pots because there are only two pots on that module that can be fitted with the metal shaft pots anyway (the two large tuning knobs). If this is an issue, we can offer the replacement parts once we have them in stock. The text on any dealer's page describing the Piston 3 should NOT mention metal shaft pots anywhere, please tell me if you've seen otherwise.

To clarify: The Mark III pots (excluding this initial run of Piston Honda 3) are specified as metal shaft ONLY on the large knobs (not the small black knobless ones, or the small black/orange ones used on attenuators). The plastic shaft parts are quite reliable, we're only changing over to metal shaft on big knobs due to user preference.


To be fair, I'm definitely one of the people who prefer the bolted down metal shaft knobs so the second I got it home and out of the box I was kind of bummed.

The two large tuning knobs are relatively stable, as stable as any on any older Make Noise module, but honestly, that push rotary encoder is all over the place wobbly. Maybe I'll get used to it.
spudboyblues
governor blacksnake wrote:
The manual is now online: http://www.industrialmusicelectronics.com/products/21


This clarifies a lot of the questions I had - and confirms my excitement to be part of the pre-order at Control! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! There are loads of subtle design and UX choices here that make me very happy. Best of all is the tuning to C0 at the bottom of the oscillator, will make performing live with this much less of a worry!
governor blacksnake
nolongerhuman wrote:

To be fair, I'm definitely one of the people who prefer the bolted down metal shaft knobs so the second I got it home and out of the box I was kind of bummed.

The two large tuning knobs are relatively stable, as stable as any on any older Make Noise module, but honestly, that push rotary encoder is all over the place wobbly. Maybe I'll get used to it.


Sorry that we didn't clarify the change in pots since we've announced the mk3 series on this forum. We were very careful to inform dealers of the change before we accepted any orders for the module.

The encoder part and knob is the same used on zorlon/argos/stillson, but the debounce is much improved over the mk2 modules. I hope the operation of the module is enjoyable to you otherwise.
Funky40
i´ve nearly ordered a PH-mkIII (need to wait to know when that other module finally comes)
I in my case would have relied on the posts given here in this Thread ! just to say.
do you think i really go and read again every sentence on a shops page when i´m under the opinion that i allready have all the relevant infos down ?

probably i could live with unmounted pots or probably not, not shure.
but the resale situation could be a different one i have to guess..........
edit: thanks ! good to know what is
mdoudoroff
governor blacksnake, may I add the PH3 wavetable banks to WaveEdit Online?
Tonefloat01


Oh Goody Gumdrops, look what the Control Voltage fairies left on my doorstep today, looks like I can put this puppy into the rack tonight for a ‘first date’ with the rest of the noise makers nanners Guinness ftw! [/img]
spudboyblues
Picked up yesterday from Control. This module is an absolute beast. It can go all the way from clean and glossy and classic FM-bell tones to noisy hell, and literally everything in between. Loving this one, new classic in my book.
electrohead
upload some videos you guys nanners
ignatius
great demo today from Scott. really informative. HD MKIII us a worthy successor to the HD MKI/MKII

the preset morphing sounds amazing. and the random preset generator is amazingly good.

we filmed it all and will upload the video + Q and A asap.. probably sometime next week. it's busy at the shop!

we had a bit of a noise issue in the feed somewhere for a minute but managed it.

thanks for your patience.
electrohead
ignatius wrote:
great demo today from Scott. really informative. HD MKIII us a worthy successor to the HD MKI/MKII

we filmed it all and will upload the video + Q and A asap.. probably sometime next week. it's busy at the shop!

thanks for your patience.


very frustrating sometime next week very frustrating

thumbs up
ignatius
electrohead wrote:
ignatius wrote:
great demo today from Scott. really informative. HD MKIII us a worthy successor to the HD MKI/MKII

we filmed it all and will upload the video + Q and A asap.. probably sometime next week. it's busy at the shop!

thanks for your patience.


very frustrating sometime next week very frustrating

thumbs up


people have lives. wink thumbs up

takes time to transfer from the camera, edit, fix levels, and upload it.. especially when doing 5 other things during the day at work smile
Tonefloat01
Even though I have this module (as of today) please do post your video of this event which I’m sure there are many here who would love to see\hear it!!
ignatius
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Even though I have this module (as of today) please do post your video of this event which I’m sure there are many here who would love to see\hear it!!


i think that's what i said (like 3 times) would happen ASAP. smile

if you check the modular 8 youtube channel all our events are there.. live performances, module demos, interviews, random patches from the shop. it's all there smile

we try to archive everything we can.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU8WFj5BXU5WIQ6wb2_qs0Q/videos

we looked at some streaming rigs and rented one to try it out and it worked pretty well. eventually we'll get a streaming rig but until then we're just going to record everything and put it on our youtube channel.
Tonefloat01
Thanks for the link, nice of you to record & share these sessions.
Looking forward to watching it. thumbs up
uniquepersonno2
ignatius wrote:
HD MKIII us a worthy successor to the HD MKI/MKII
thanks for your patience.


Do we have more news on the HD MKIII then??
Sinamsis
ignatius
Can you also post a few videos of how to make salsa? In the next few hours if possible. Thanks. thumbs up
Funky40
yes, videos please !
......might want one cause E370 is not coming into move......
no, No salsa for me, thanks ! pure and dry hihi


so what i hear is that the "Not-clean" "issue" with the PH-mkII is gonne ?
what about TZFM ? can the mkIII do that ?
mkII was rated to do but it was "in my book" just plain crap/ not working or whatever.....


and i wonder how the ph3 lives beside a E370, .......not saying "compares" wink
ignatius
Sinamsis wrote:
ignatius
Can you also post a few videos of how to make salsa? In the next few hours if possible. Thanks. thumbs up


with or without cilantro?
Dark Barn
Funky40 Scott did a little demo for me at the Seattle Signals synth meet last week and said that the mkIII does TZFM. It was a busy and noisy room but I think it sounded fantastic.
Sinamsis
ignatius wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
ignatius
Can you also post a few videos of how to make salsa? In the next few hours if possible. Thanks. thumbs up


with or without cilantro?


If you have to ask, then I don't want your recipe. Nevermind.
governor blacksnake
Sinamsis wrote:
ignatius wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
ignatius
Can you also post a few videos of how to make salsa? In the next few hours if possible. Thanks. thumbs up


with or without cilantro?


If you have to ask, then I don't want your recipe. Nevermind.


sectarianism is not allowed on Muff Wiggler
Sinamsis
governor blacksnake wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
ignatius wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
ignatius
Can you also post a few videos of how to make salsa? In the next few hours if possible. Thanks. thumbs up


with or without cilantro?


If you have to ask, then I don't want your recipe. Nevermind.


sectarianism is not allowed on Muff Wiggler


There’s no part here other than the cilantro party. Something has to fill the time til my precious... I mean my Piston Honda gets here.
ignatius
sorry for the intermittent buzz. it wasn't there during soundcheck.

electrohead
ignatius wrote:
sorry for the intermittent buzz. it wasn't there during soundcheck.




thank you for posting this.

Scott is such a fine gentleman. it was an insightful presentation.

there’s a lot of features packed into this module.

I had difficulty deciding between PHMK3 and Erica Synth’s two wavetable vco offerings. Given the plethora of modulation possibilities that PHMK3 offers, I am now confident to pull the trigger on this bad boy SlayerBadger!
Tonefloat01
Thank you Ignatius for posting this video, very much appreciated nanners thumbs up
uniquepersonno2
This is great! Glad to hear the news on the new modules coming out as well.
listentoaheartbeat
Thanks for the video! Can anyone point me to where Scott talks about the HD Mk3 (if he does)?
tomtomtron
Thank you for the video! Finally some insights thumbs up
mt3
@25:43 Preset morphing
@20:50 Preset morphing at audio rate
@26:55 Tyme Sefari mk III
@29:10 Mark III designs
@31:15 Waveform wavesets
@35:10 Single Andore walkthrough and demo
@22:25 Preset Manager walkthrough and demo
@24:15 Hertz Donut mk III bedroom banter
Robscorch
mt3 wrote:
@24:15 Hertz Donut mk III bedroom banter


3 OP FM I about shit myself. Never maintain cash savings again
uniquepersonno2
Robscorch wrote:
mt3 wrote:
@24:15 Hertz Donut mk III bedroom banter


3 OP FM I about shit myself. Never maintain cash savings again


Huh, interesting. I wonder if it offers the same variety of internal modulations as the MKII or if it's going in a different direction...
namshub
Loox like it takes the mkii to whole other level=). But fuck. Must I have to trade my old one to upgrade. I guess so=( aaarrrggghhh...
ignatius
namshub wrote:
Loox like it takes the mkii to whole other level=). But fuck. Must I have to trade my old one to upgrade. I guess so=( aaarrrggghhh...


both!
Sinamsis
Ha yeah, I'm not trading mk II. If anything, I've started to collect mk I modules haha. I should've built a bigger case.


uniquepersonno2
Sinamsis wrote:
Ha yeah, I'm not trading mk II. If anything, I've started to collect mk I modules haha. I should've built a bigger case.



Ooh, the Dual Borg in there is a really good idea...
mt3
Sinamsis wrote:
Ha yeah, I'm not trading mk II. If anything, I've started to collect mk I modules haha. I should've built a bigger case.




Y U NO PHMKIII VIDEO AUDIO??!!
Sinamsis
uniquepersonno2 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Ha yeah, I'm not trading mk II. If anything, I've started to collect mk I modules haha. I should've built a bigger case.



Ooh, the Dual Borg in there is a really good idea...


That’s just holding space for the new BL. But it’s been very useful.

No video yet of PH III yet because I don’t actually make music with these things. I just collect them like pogs and watch the light show. But seriously I barely had time to install it. Turns out 11 month olds can be real dicks. But I should have some time over the next few days.
PompeiiRuler
Came here wanting the PH Mk3 ( have a mk2 ) and came away wanting the Single Adore! Now tThinking I should consider the HD mk3 as have never owned one.
namshub
ignatius wrote:
namshub wrote:
Loox like it takes the mkii to whole other level=). But fuck. Must I have to trade my old one to upgrade. I guess so=( aaarrrggghhh...


both!


no room. poor.
Pighood
Going head to head with E352 in my view.

Here’s my scenario...

I was planning to replace my Gamma Wave Source with a Plaits, but could not do so if I were going to get the E352 to replace my E350...due to size. No such restriction with PHIII. E350 would be replaced, but Plaits would fit too.
Funky40
I wonder what people say who have a PH-mkIII beside a E352 or E370.
do they compliment each other or is it kind of a waist ? ( for people who have not the $ nor the space for everything )

even more interested to know how they play together when stacking and syncing and doing FM one to the other..........
autopoiesis
Funky40 wrote:
I wonder what people say who have a PH-mkIII beside a E352 or E370.
do they compliment each other or is it kind of a waist ? ( for people who have not the $ nor the space for everything )

even more interested to know how they play together when stacking and syncing and doing FM one to the other..........


wondering similarly about the shapeshifter
dooj88
there's something special about the phiii wavetables to me.. if i had to describe them in some abstract synesthesia related manner i'd say they glow..

i'm pretty sure i'm going to have to chop my e352.. adding this to SS and 352 would be bacchanalian overkill. ..... twisted
af3ld
Played with this thing the other day and sounds primo. thumbs up
Sinamsis
Shot a quick video of the first patch with the PH mk III. It sounds great. Haven't had a lot of time with it, but the sound is wonderful. Two oscillators indeed are better than one. I also have a Shapeshifter and an E352. I need more time before commenting. Obviously the UI is very different for all of them. I don't know, I just love the sliders on PH. Also the morphing on the PH is not possible on the SS. Preset morphing (haven't played with it yet) I don't think is possible either with the SS or E352. I need more time, but I do think the PH can match the fidelity or "cleanness" of the other two modules. I don't know the actually specs off the top of my head for these 3 modules, but the mk III PH is the most hifi yet it seems. The SS has the wave folder, which is nice. E352 has a lot of different modes. E352 and PH mk III can over-write the waveforms with user made waveforms, with relative ease. Shapeshifter has a lot of other bells and whistles (LFO mode, strike input, vocoder, chord mode, etc). The PH mk III is not DC coupled. The PH can wave shape external audio. I don't think anyone can tell you what is redundant or not for you. I guess it depends on the size of your case, your other modules, etc. They are all unique, with only some degree of overlap. I have the E352 in my larger, main case. I have the PH mk III in my dedicated Harvestman system. I've had the SS in the main case with the E352 and didn't feel it was redundant, but I'm ultimately pulling that for an Intellijel system. I'm happy to have all the above, they're wonderful sound sources and more.

Funky40
Sinamsis wrote:
I need more time, but I do think the PH can match the fidelity or "cleanness" of the other two modules.

yeah, my concerns with the PH-mkII have been here in this regard.
i expected the mkIII to be good, but was still concerned about that it could lack.
so thanks for the feedback !

Sinamsis wrote:
I don't know the actually specs off the top of my head for these 3 modules, but the mk III PH is the most hifi yet it seems.

most hifi ? thats a surprise ! i´ve not patched a E352 but know how good it sounds.
and yes, Your demo sounds really good. Very clean, hehe
Sinamsis
Funky40 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I need more time, but I do think the PH can match the fidelity or "cleanness" of the other two modules.

yeah, my concerns with the PH-mkII have been here in this regard.
i expected the mkIII to be good, but was still concerned about that it could lack.
so thanks for the feedback !

Sinamsis wrote:
I don't know the actually specs off the top of my head for these 3 modules, but the mk III PH is the most hifi yet it seems.

most hifi ? thats a surprise ! i´ve not patched a E352 but know how good it sounds.
and yes, Your demo sounds really good. Very clean, hehe



I meant most hifi of the Piston Hondas. I've owned mk I, have a mk II and III. Regret selling the mk I, I'll probably need to buy one again at some point. It had a unique sound, and the grittiest of the three by far. I think perhaps this inherent grittiness is what turns some people away from IME stuff. It's the reason why I embrace the modules. But the mk III does seem to have a cleanness to it that the other two do no. Worry not, I'm sure it can get grimey as well.
mt3
Sinamsis wrote:
I meant most hifi of the Piston Hondas. I've owned mk I, have a mk II and III. Regret selling the mk I, I'll probably need to buy one again at some point. It had a unique sound, and the grittiest of the three by far. I think perhaps this inherent grittiness is what turns some people away from IME stuff. It's the reason why I embrace the modules. But the mk III does seem to have a cleanness to it that the other two do no. Worry not, I'm sure it can get grimey as well.


Ya, I agree with everything here (shock?).
Grit == character/personality/positive connotations/etc.

Good vid. fap fap fap...
I was fully expecting it to be called "My 11 Month Old Hates My Modular" though...

Though I think running any PH through reverb is cheating, especially since the grit/grime is EXACTLY what ends up being accentuated through reverb! But a good kind of cheating nonetheless! twisted
Don't get me started on running PH through ValhallaDSP Shimmer and listening to it all night while Kermiting its axes with Discontinuity cranked to 11.
fap fap fap...
Pighood
fap fap fap...
kingcons
Gorgeous Demo, Sinamsis! hyper screaming goo yo

Now I have to decide whether I'm saving more for Norns or PHmk3. (Also, I need to sell more things, anyone want an Atlantis or Clouds? razz)
Sinamsis
mt3
No way dude, she's about the only one who likes my modular. My wife, dog and mom are the ones who hate it. And my mother in law, but she hates most things.

Ha, you know, it's not a great demo when you use external processing. But fuck all y'all, I love running this box through delay and reverb. Haha. Another delay and reverb soaked video coming up shortly showing the dirtier side.



Sinamsis
Pighood
Does PHIII do lo frequency also?
reodjectz
Pighood wrote:
Does PHIII do lo frequency also?


min freq is 14htz.... not DC coupled.
bemushroomed
Sinamsis wrote:
Preset morphing (haven't played with it yet) I don't think is possible either with the SS or E352.


Sure the e352 can morph (+cloud) between banks (1 bank can be seen as 1 preset i guess, at least how i see it). Maybe not in the same way as PHIII, haven't used it.. The cloud function alone is incredible on the e352, love using a e.g a sample of a pad in one channel vocals in the other (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ordoYg5AE), it gets you into MI Clouds territory + more..
Pighood
reodjectz wrote:
Pighood wrote:
Does PHIII do lo frequency also?


min freq is 14htz.... not DC coupled.



So I presume then that my E350 would spank its ass at LFO duties?
Sinamsis
bemushroomed wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Preset morphing (haven't played with it yet) I don't think is possible either with the SS or E352.


Sure the e352 can morph (+cloud) between banks (1 bank can be seen as 1 preset i guess, at least how i see it). Maybe not in the same way as PHIII, haven't used it.. The cloud function alone is incredible on the e352, love using a e.g a sample of a pad in one channel vocals in the other (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ordoYg5AE), it gets you into MI Clouds territory + more..


That’s not the same as morphing an entire preset. Yes the it can morph between banks. So can the PH. But a preset contains more than just banks, table and wave data, it contains more settings.
Sinamsis
Pighood wrote:
reodjectz wrote:
Pighood wrote:
Does PHIII do lo frequency also?


min freq is 14htz.... not DC coupled.



So I presume then that my E350 would spank its ass at LFO duties?


You’re looking at it wrong. Apples and oranges. The mk III lost the DC coupling to improve audio quality. It does not send CV. If you want to use a PH as an LFO you need to look at mk I and II.
Pighood
Cheers thanks
bemushroomed
Sinamsis wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Preset morphing (haven't played with it yet) I don't think is possible either with the SS or E352.


Sure the e352 can morph (+cloud) between banks (1 bank can be seen as 1 preset i guess, at least how i see it). Maybe not in the same way as PHIII, haven't used it.. The cloud function alone is incredible on the e352, love using a e.g a sample of a pad in one channel vocals in the other (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ordoYg5AE), it gets you into MI Clouds territory + more..


That’s not the same as morphing an entire preset. Yes the it can morph between banks. So can the PH. But a preset contains more than just banks, table and wave data, it contains more settings.


what's a "preset" in the case of PH, if its more than wavetables i mean.

Curious how much lack of DC coupling does to improve audio quality, if it's something very audible or just something that in practice should sound better.. i know lots of modules with audio duties does have DC coupling.
Sinamsis
bemushroomed wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Preset morphing (haven't played with it yet) I don't think is possible either with the SS or E352.


Sure the e352 can morph (+cloud) between banks (1 bank can be seen as 1 preset i guess, at least how i see it). Maybe not in the same way as PHIII, haven't used it.. The cloud function alone is incredible on the e352, love using a e.g a sample of a pad in one channel vocals in the other (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ordoYg5AE), it gets you into MI Clouds territory + more..


That’s not the same as morphing an entire preset. Yes the it can morph between banks. So can the PH. But a preset contains more than just banks, table and wave data, it contains more settings.



what's a "preset" in the case of PH, if its more than wavetables i mean.

Curious how much lack of DC coupling does to improve audio quality, if it's something very audible or just something that in practice should sound better.. i know lots of modules with audio duties does have DC coupling.


I think having DC coupled outputs can causing clicking and noise, but I'm no expert.

From the manual:

This parameter controls which elements (or functions) are managed by the preset manager. “Waves Only” will only change the waveform sliders, CV/FM/XYZ attenuverters, and the unison/octave settings when the preset is changed. “All Params” will additionally change the coarse and ne controls so that the basic oscillator frequency is also under the control of the preset manager.
bemushroomed
Sinamsis wrote:

This parameter controls which elements (or functions) are managed by the preset manager. “Waves Only” will only change the waveform sliders, CV/FM/XYZ attenuverters, and the unison/octave settings when the preset is changed. “All Params” will additionally change the coarse and ne controls so that the basic oscillator frequency is also under the control of the preset manager.


I see, interesting smile
Tonefloat01
Okay, This is the first time I’ve been able to dive into my new PH MK3 (don’t judge me I work for a livin’...) and I’m completely thrilled with this module.
To my ears it sounds cleaner and brighter than my PH MK2 but in a very good way. I love monitoring OSC A only and then moving the sliders until I hear what sound that I want and then do the same for OSC B and doing the same. Then I take the OSC MIX output, detune them against each other, and some XYZ modulation from my Batumi, add some delay and reverb and sit and listen in bliss (actually very loudly...).

I know that I’m just scratching the surface of this bad boy so chilled in advance if I’m quite pushing the limits of what it can do (yet).

One of the wavetables sounds like it has a lot of PPG waves from wavetable 13 in there which was one of my favorites back in the day.

Well that’s it for my initial report from the front lines.

SlayerBadger! nanners Guinness ftw!
Pighood
How does she react to FM?
Tonefloat01
Great! I actually modulated both oscillators of the PH MK3 from my PH MK2 (with help from some extra mullet) and modulated the pitch of the PH MK2 with my Batumi and it was awesome. nanners
Thanks for the motivation to keep diving deep into this sucker!
Cheers !

Guinness ftw!
dooj88
Tonefloat01 wrote:

One of the wavetables sounds like it has a lot of PPG waves from wavetable 13 in there which was one of my favorites back in the day.

SlayerBadger! nanners Guinness ftw!


in the demo from modular8, scott said he loves the old Waldorf stuff and some of those sounds are in one of the default banks.
Tonefloat01
From the PH MK3 V1.1 manual:

“ You can make your own wavetables for use on Piston Honda. The free, open-source “WaveEdit” program by the Synthesis Technology company allows convenient creation, editing, and sharing of files that may be loaded directly into Piston Honda. We recommend this program as a first solution to creating custom waveform data, but any means of generating samples in WAV format properly aligned to the 256-sample boundary will work (see FILE FORMAT DESCRIPTION)“

Holy Amazeballs! It's peanut butter jelly time! we're not worthy Guinness ftw! SlayerBadger!
Tonefloat01
Oh, so I have a question... no Micro SD card included with their modules?
mdoudoroff
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Holy Amazeballs! It's peanut butter jelly time! we're not worthy Guinness ftw! SlayerBadger!


Moreover, there are over 100 free wavetable banks to get you started at https://waveeditonline.com

(You can access also these directly from the WaveEdit Online tab within the WaveEdit software.)
joey


4 minutes tweaking piston Mk3 here + some rainmaker, echophon, erbe verb, wogglebug, and stillson mk2 in the mix. maths too
Tumulishroomaroom
I just listened to the various demos + the ones on Soundcloud... This thing sounds amazing ! Has it reached EU stores yet ? I need a new case first... and a Rainmaker... aaaarrrgggh
fields
Quote:
Has it reached EU stores yet ?


Schneidersladen told me there are some shipping delays of about a month.
I'm waiting impatiently - so excited for this one!
Radical Ans
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Oh, so I have a question... no Micro SD card included with their modules?


None included. It's only required for loading of wavetables, so you can get along fine without it.
starthief
I'm curious how the TZFM sounds with sines, triangles and saws. AKA, whether I could replace my Hertz Donut mk2 with one of these and not miss too much (...except the XOR out which I can recreate in other modules, and the discontinuity which I often skip in favor of an analog folder anyway).

(Though I'm going to wait on demos of the HD mk3 before choosing to stick with my current module or switching to one of the new ones.)
Tonefloat01
Radical Ans wrote:
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Oh, so I have a question... no Micro SD card included with their modules?


None included. It's only required for loading of wavetables, so you can get along fine without it.


That’s what I figured...
autopoiesis
have to say, I was a little disappointed to find no VCAs on this for the internally normalled FM. before the manual I assumed those CV inputs next to the FM jacks would be used for that rather than auxiliary pitch control. awesome oscillator anyways
starthief
autopoiesis wrote:
have to say, I was a little disappointed to find no VCAs on this for the internally normalled FM.


I see. I'll mark it off my list as a potential HD mk2 replacement, and wait for news on the HD mk3 smile
thebrotherspus
Does anyone know the difference between version 1.0 firmware and 1.1 firmware?
Nightly Closures
Mine showed up today with 1.1 installed and I’m not exactly sure what the difference is. However, I’m sure this thing is amazing! Holy crap, I absolutely love this. If it wasn’t already clear, each OSC can be set and morph from different X, Y and Z at separate amounts. I’ve been in drone heaven all day.
AndreasD
I'm reading the manual and it says the PH3 contains 512 waveforms in an 8x8x8 configuration.

Is that true? PH2 seem to have 16x16x16 waveforms.
governor blacksnake
thebrotherspus wrote:
Does anyone know the difference between version 1.0 firmware and 1.1 firmware?


1.1 fixes a small bug in the display (when both oscs are selected, 1.0 does not display the influence of the external CV on osc b's wave index display). It also adds a soft reboot command in the global menu. No need to upgrade if you're on 1.0, unless you find any of the above features absolutely irresistible.
dysonant
This is my first patch with the PH MKIII

autopoiesis
The square and saw waveforms on my PH MkIII (factory wave banks) sound really thin, almost nasal, compared to my Shapeshifter, Dixie, and Sinc Iter. Sounds pretty terrible when run through any of my VCFs by comparison. In settings I have tone = orthodox, unison = off, X/Y/Z morphing = off, no modulation or FM applied. Wonder if I should try loading new waves into it, or if this is just part of its character.

The other waveforms sound great, though.
brianobush
Quote:
The square and saw waveforms on my PH MkIII (factory wave banks) sound really thin, almost nasal, compared to my



Are these built in or your own? Are they normalized so that they fill the entire range?
autopoiesis
brianobush wrote:
Quote:
The square and saw waveforms on my PH MkIII (factory wave banks) sound really thin, almost nasal, compared to my



Are these built in or your own? Are they normalized so that they fill the entire range?


built in, factory wave set.
webhead311
I really want one of these but i wish there where more videos that show it being used as a more melodic/musical voice.
khyber
You can get any oscillator into melodic/musical territory but I'm not sure I would describe most Harvestman products that way
nolongerhuman
webhead311 wrote:
I really want one of these but i wish there where more videos that show it being used as a more melodic/musical voice.


In my time with the PHmk3, it can technically be very melodic, maybe even moreso than the mk2, but that's really not it's wheelhouse. I mean, technically you can use a socket wrench as a hammer, but it's not the ideal tool for the job (for most people).

I'm finding it excels at massive evolving drones, some of which I haven't heard anything like in modular before, as well as quite happily being plugged into each side of an lxD and creating more percussive hits.
reodjectz
autopoiesis wrote:
brianobush wrote:
Quote:
The square and saw waveforms on my PH MkIII (factory wave banks) sound really thin, almost nasal, compared to my



Are these built in or your own? Are they normalized so that they fill the entire range?


built in, factory wave set.


Which coordinates are you calling each waveform Xmadmad? Its not like it has a dedicated Square out or anything.
autopoiesis
yeah, of course. I'm referring to the coordinates 2:1:1 (X:Y:Z), which is visualized as a sawtooth on the module's display, and 3:1:1, which is visualized as a square. in my comparison I have waveform modulation CV turned off, morphing on all axes turned off, no unison, no fm, "orthodox" flavor, and nothing plugged into the inputs.

I could do an audio demo next week I guess but I'm just wondering if others have noticed this or if I'm missing something.

here they are from the PHMkIII, captured on my shitty dso nano v3 scope:



vs. from shapeshifter:



vs. from dixie mk1:

[/img]
Tonefloat01
khyber wrote:
You can get any oscillator into melodic/musical territory but.....



The PH mk3 is no different in this regard thumbs up
governor blacksnake
autopoiesis wrote:
yeah, of course. I'm referring to the coordinates 2:1:1 (X:Y:Z), which is visualized as a sawtooth on the module's display, and 3:1:1, which is visualized as a square. in my comparison I have waveform modulation CV turned off, morphing on all axes turned off, no unison, no fm, "orthodox" flavor, and nothing plugged into the inputs.

I could do an audio demo next week I guess but I'm just wondering if others have noticed this or if I'm missing something.

here they are from the PHMkIII, captured on my shitty dso nano v3 scope:



vs. from shapeshifter:



vs. from dixie mk1:

[/img]


Hi,

The "Orthodox" mode features two different kinds of interpolation, which leads to the soft edges you see there. Change it to any of the others to restore the expected behavior.
thebrotherspus
governor blacksnake wrote:
thebrotherspus wrote:
Does anyone know the difference between version 1.0 firmware and 1.1 firmware?


1.1 fixes a small bug in the display (when both oscs are selected, 1.0 does not display the influence of the external CV on osc b's wave index display). It also adds a soft reboot command in the global menu. No need to upgrade if you're on 1.0, unless you find any of the above features absolutely irresistible.



Thanks very much for the info. I just updated to 1.1 without any issues. thumbs up
thebrotherspus
autopoiesis wrote:
have to say, I was a little disappointed to find no VCAs on this for the internally normalled FM. before the manual I assumed those CV inputs next to the FM jacks would be used for that rather than auxiliary pitch control. awesome oscillator anyways


I kinda felt the same way. The internal FM sounds awesome. It would be great to just jam an envelope in there to increase and decrease the depth. Oh well, I suppose I can just patch it up anyway with a few extra cables. (maybe it could be added as an option in the global menu in a firmware update someday hihi )
...and yes, I agree, this oscillator is most certainly awesome. I've owned all 3 versions of piston hondas so far, and this is definitely my favourite.
djd_oz
More demos please ...
Bark
So.... Any of you guys successfully imported your own wavetables?
I'm struggling getting this to work.

Factory files on a 16GB FAT32 SanDisk ultra sd import fine.
Files (with 64 waves) from WaveEdit give a "File number H of 8" error message on loading... Renamed imported wav to 8.wav. Tried some from the online banks, and tried to create my own.

What could I be missing? very frustrating
Tonefloat01
I personally haven’t tried this yet but it’s on my to-do list!
very frustrating

In the manual it states that you have to replace all of the wavetables IIRC...
I guess make sure that all 8 wavetables are there on the card numbered sequentially. hmmm.....
Bark
Tonefloat01 wrote:
I personally haven’t tried this yet but it’s on my to-do list!
very frustrating

In the manual it states that you have to replace all of the wavetables IIRC...
I guess make sure that all 8 wavetables are there on the card numbered sequentially. hmmm.....


Yes, did that. 1 to 7 original, 8th my own/imported one
Forgot to mention that..
Sinamsis
Had a little time with my Harvestman/IME system and the Piston Honda mk III.

governor blacksnake
Bark wrote:
So.... Any of you guys successfully imported your own wavetables?
I'm struggling getting this to work.

Factory files on a 16GB FAT32 SanDisk ultra sd import fine.
Files (with 64 waves) from WaveEdit give a "File number H of 8" error message on loading... Renamed imported wav to 8.wav. Tried some from the online banks, and tried to create my own.

What could I be missing? very frustrating


Email support@industrialmusicelectronics.com for help. If you are willing to share your file I can troubleshoot it effectively.
Bark
governor blacksnake Thanks, will do
Tonefloat01
Bark wrote:
governor blacksnake Thanks, will do


Please report back here with your findings!
thetwlo
love this beast!!!!
display is tiny! it's fine, just smaller than expected.
Bark
So yeah, for anyone having trouble loading their own waves and getting the "H of 8" error:

It seemed it was a SD formatting issue. Although I formatted my 16GB SanDisk to FAT(32) and tried that on both Mac and Windows computers, the module didn't seem to recognize it. This little app did the trick:

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/index.html

Had to use “overwrite format” mode, which takes some time, but all is fine now.
My issue was really weird, but Scott (who was really helpful and a real nice dude) helped me out real fast.
lordymosh
Is Schneidersladen still waiting on stock? Ordered this along with my first few modules 10 ten days ago but nothing has shipped yet.
Leverkusen
lordymosh wrote:
Is Schneidersladen still waiting on stock? Ordered this along with my first few modules 10 ten days ago but nothing has shipped yet.


They told me that the are already sold out and have no information about when they might receive a new shipment.

Have you just ordered or also already made a payement? Send 'em an email - they are very nice and I always like to have an idea about when a module will be actually in stock and shipped when I make a preorder. Sometimes to decide if I make a preorder.
lordymosh
Leverkusen wrote:
lordymosh wrote:
Is Schneidersladen still waiting on stock? Ordered this along with my first few modules 10 ten days ago but nothing has shipped yet.


They told me that the are already sold out and have no information about when they might receive a new shipment.

Have you just ordered or also already made a payement? Send 'em an email - they are very nice and I always like to have an idea about when a module will be actually in stock and shipped when I make a preorder. Sometimes to decide if I make a preorder.


Damn that sucks. When I ordered the PH MK3, it said that it was still in stock on their website.

I hope I don't have to wait till the new shipment arrives. I got onto them there anyway.
Misk
I've replaced the wavetables with some others from waveeditonline successfully, but then re-installed the factory wavetables because they're just so good!

I've had my phmk3 for like a month and *just* started messing with the preset morphing (first PH, so it was all new to me). If you change the morphing scope to "all parameters" instead of just waves—and morph between them, it's fucking AWESOME. especially with presets at different pitches. great for sound design!

I love the preset randomize feature, and how easy it is to experiment and fill it up with new presets to morph between as well. syncing one osc to the other and then adding a little xmod FM between them creates some really cool "unstable oscillator breakdown" stuff too. woah
autopoiesis
governor blacksnake wrote:

The "Orthodox" mode features two different kinds of interpolation, which leads to the soft edges you see there. Change it to any of the others to restore the expected behavior.


still doesn't sound anything like those other oscillators' basic saw and square waves, but no matter - I love the PHMKIII for everything else it does and it would be a flagrant waste to use the thing for bread and butter subtractive stuff when I can just stack my dixie with it. maybe it's just the factory wave set, anyway - will find out soon what happens when I replace with other wavetables
lordymosh
Playing around with the piston honda for a few days now. First eurorack oscillator. Its anazing. I tried the unison and turned off the morph on some of the axes today. Drone heaven.

https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/1st-eurorack-experiment
mt3
lordymosh wrote:
Playing around with the piston honda for a few days now. First eurorack oscillator. Its anazing. I tried the unison and turned off the morph on some of the axes today. Drone heaven.

https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/1st-eurorack-experiment


[s]https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/1st-eurorack-experiment[/s]

Sounds great!
lordymosh
mt3 wrote:
lordymosh wrote:
Playing around with the piston honda for a few days now. First eurorack oscillator. Its anazing. I tried the unison and turned off the morph on some of the axes today. Drone heaven.

https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/1st-eurorack-experiment


[s]https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/1st-eurorack-experiment[/s]

Sounds great!


Thanks. Also thanks for suggesting the DA MK1. Those wavetable envelopes are something else. love
nolongerhuman
Unless I am missing something or perhaps not using preset mode to it's fullest, is there no way to for panel settings to be the same after a power cycle?

At the moment, things like the link button, mode buttons, etc are reset to default when powering up, even when I save a preset the way I want them configured.
autopoiesis
have you tried setting Startup to Preset in the global options menu, and then saving to, say, preset 1? I recall this working for me
placebo92
Has anyone tried the PH mk3 with Mutable Instruments Warps?

I feel like this could be a nice way to get the two oscillators playing together in all sorts of even more crazy ways.. I had read somewhere that Warps doesn't sound it's best when fed complex sources though so I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on it...

(edit): or would wavefolding the PH mk3 just be totally redundant hmmm.....
Pighood
placebo92 wrote:
Has anyone tried the PH mk3 with Mutable Instruments Warps?

I feel like this could be a nice way to get the two oscillators playing together in all sorts of even more crazy ways.. I had read somewhere that Warps doesn't sound it's best when fed complex sources though so I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on it...

(edit): or would wavefolding the PH mk3 just be totally redundant hmmm.....


Why not bung a Shades (or equivalent) in between to tame the signal?
starthief
Wavefolding in general typically works best with simpler waveforms (sines, triangles etc.) since it introduces higher harmonics, like any kind of distortion.

Buuuut, it does do fun things to more complex waves and complements the E352/E370 pretty nicely, so it should do the same for PH.

Also Warps does a lot of other stuff; rich harmonics should work nicely for the vocoder for instance, ringmod would probably work well, and even just modulated crossfading should have lots of potential.
placebo92
Not even to mention the alternate modes, that delay looks really nice.. That's assuring to hear, I'll go for it. I kind of figured another layer of waveshaping on top of a Wavetable could only be more of a good thing.
SpiritMolecule
fields wrote:
Quote:
Has it reached EU stores yet ?


Schneidersladen told me there are some shipping delays of about a month.
I'm waiting impatiently - so excited for this one!


Its avaible now got mine 2 days ago
L.C.O.
I am definitely having hard time setting this up so that it powers up with a selected preset.

I believe that I am following the manual sequence, but it always seems to start up with preset manager off, and with the default sound.

I have set the STARTUP: the Preset ON
and
SAVE TO PRESET, my particular settings.

After power cycle, it seems to revert the Global settings to Preset OFF, and always starts with the same default sounds.

Someone please explain to me what is the right way to do this.
I read the manual section 3 times by now...
L.C.O.
Anybody?
gringostar
L.C.O. wrote:
Anybody?


You might get better responses if you head over to the dedicated subform for The Harvestman.
Sinamsis
Or just hit up Scott directly. He's been pretty responsive for me. I can check later, but I've been on diaper duty all weekend and the work week is looking hectic, so I really haven't had any time in the studio to answer either way.
L.C.O.
OK
Sent an email, and messaged via fb.
Will see what works.
sharkminusbear
Need some advice, really torn between this and the e352. I know the feature set is different, but both sound very good. What have people used as deciding factors to go with the PH mk3 over other options?

I've always seen the IME/Harvestman stuff as more of a niche for digital/noise/drone and my only hands-on experience with wavetables is with Plaits.
tbecker
sharkminusbear wrote:
Need some advice, really torn between this and the e352. I know the feature set is different, but both sound very good. What have people used as deciding factors to go with the PH mk3 over other options?

I've always seen the IME/Harvestman stuff as more of a niche for digital/noise/drone and my only hands-on experience with wavetables is with Plaits.
The mkiii is a dual wtbl osc with user generated waves and dual waveshapers. So for me its an easy pick I use it as a stand alone complex osc, a dual osc, or a dual stereo processor. It is actually amazing and I have several tracks pilling up now that I am too busy to share. The ST doesn't do waveshaping and the PH is actually designed around the process. I imagine Scott likes to use this for stereo distortion as do I, still love to rock and destroy sound, why not?
Misk
tbecker wrote:
sharkminusbear wrote:
Need some advice, really torn between this and the e352. I know the feature set is different, but both sound very good. What have people used as deciding factors to go with the PH mk3 over other options?

I've always seen the IME/Harvestman stuff as more of a niche for digital/noise/drone and my only hands-on experience with wavetables is with Plaits.
The mkiii is a dual wtbl osc with user generated waves and dual waveshapers. So for me its an easy pick I use it as a stand alone complex osc, a dual osc, or a dual stereo processor. It is actually amazing and I have several tracks pilling up now that I am too busy to share. The ST doesn't do waveshaping and the PH is actually designed around the process. I imagine Scott likes to use this for stereo distortion as do I, still love to rock and destroy sound, why not?


don't forget that it could be used as dual VCAs in a pinch too!
isol
sharkminusbear wrote:
Need some advice, really torn between this and the e352. I know the feature set is different, but both sound very good. What have people used as deciding factors to go with the PH mk3 over other options?

I've always seen the IME/Harvestman stuff as more of a niche for digital/noise/drone and my only hands-on experience with wavetables is with Plaits.


I literally just went through this decision process! I was watching all the clips I could on the e352 then decided to pick one up. I make a lot of ambient styled music and thought that the e352 would be a perfect fit, forget it lasted about a day in my track before I moved it out. The drawbacks for me where that both channels were tied together for pitch and in some modes wavetable 'travel'. While the morph and cloud nice was nice, I felt the chaos levels went from zero to mental far too quickly. I sold it on and picked up a PHIII and I couldn't be happier! I have independent control over the tuning and CV of each oscillator, FM per oscillator... Etc. You can get some stunning ambient sound or of the piston so don't be put off by the harsh tones in a lot of the demos. The PHIII is a much deeper module. (its also got oscillator stacking, so you can have 4 voices per oscillator running!)
atte
Quick question: which of the Piston Hondas (mk i, mk ii and mk iii) has memory so that they retain their state after powering off/on?
L.C.O.
atte wrote:
Quick question: which of the Piston Hondas (mk i, mk ii and mk iii) has memory so that they retain their state after powering off/on?


Exactly...

Am trying to get to the bottom of this with MKIII
(No responses/guidance so far, and as of now I am unable to have it start up with what I choose)
phase ghost
MKI definitely does not. fwiw.
novim
Just to clarify, I understand that each oscillator can be separately tuned, but can they be independently assigned to different parts of the wavetable as well? That's what I gather from this passage in the manual, but I'm not totally following the process:

Quote:
The waveform selection is shared by both oscillators though each can be tuned to their own waveform. The two SELECT buttons near the waveform sliders determine which oscillators will be updated by motions of the slider and attenuator controls. If the button is illuminated, its associated oscillator will receive the control motion in choosing a respective waveform. The display will update to show the vital parameters of the selected oscillator, or both.


So, for example, could I have a pure sinewave on Osc 1, while Osc 2 morphs around between some rougher waveforms? That's what take from the above. I just want to be sure

Thanks.
Nightly Closures
Yes, you can.
lordymosh
Misk wrote:
tbecker wrote:
sharkminusbear wrote:
Need some advice, really torn between this and the e352. I know the feature set is different, but both sound very good. What have people used as deciding factors to go with the PH mk3 over other options?

I've always seen the IME/Harvestman stuff as more of a niche for digital/noise/drone and my only hands-on experience with wavetables is with Plaits.
The mkiii is a dual wtbl osc with user generated waves and dual waveshapers. So for me its an easy pick I use it as a stand alone complex osc, a dual osc, or a dual stereo processor. It is actually amazing and I have several tracks pilling up now that I am too busy to share. The ST doesn't do waveshaping and the PH is actually designed around the process. I imagine Scott likes to use this for stereo distortion as do I, still love to rock and destroy sound, why not?


don't forget that it could be used as dual VCAs in a pinch too!


How do you do this? Is it that you plug a sound source into the external input and modulate the gain i.e. v/oct jack with an envelope or any other type of modulation?
spinalbeatz
You guys are making me consider selling the E352...
Crimesofthecrown
Mine is arriving this week and I couldn't be more excited. Very, very interested in the pyscho brutality its going to bring to the table with my Mannequins voice.
sharkminusbear
Thanks for the input, I decided to go for it. I think the dual oscillator setup and the individually assigned waveforms is one of the big reasons. I also glossed over the waveshaping function, it will probably pair great with my STO. I may need to take rings out to make room... decisions
adnauseam
Can anyone answer these questions for me? May be getting one in trade

1. How slowdoes it go? How about with negative input voltages?
2. I noticed I can use an external signal (ie saw) to sweep throughthe current wavetable. Can I do this really slowly? Im most familiar with my megawave that does this really well.

Thx in advance!
TemplarK
Just to chip to say one of the performers at Leeds Modular Meet (sorry i never got the name) producing one of the best basslines i've heard in ages from one of these, he'd had it only 4 days, i'm not sure if he already had wav files or he just knocked it up from scratch and presets but honestly it had a sound of its own, gnarly but in the very best way, if they put the videos up of those performances i'll drop a clip!!! Defo made me want one for my next oscillator!!!!
koshi
Couple of demo patches, first one PH3 as only sound source.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bls5g7Oj3of/

Here with the rest of the system.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BluJV1RD7Ai/

CVing presets is lots of fun so is morphing them.

Its amazing module, one of my favourite voices, so diverse, so many colours thumbs up
dysonant
adnauseam wrote:
Can anyone answer these questions for me? May be getting one in trade

1. How slowdoes it go? How about with negative input voltages?
2. I noticed I can use an external signal (ie saw) to sweep throughthe current wavetable. Can I do this really slowly? Im most familiar with my megawave that does this really well.

Thx in advance!


1. Pretty sure it only goes down to 14Hz, so just on the edge of clicks and audio. NO LFO. Negative voltages will make it go silent.
2. Yes, you can do this on all three axises as slow or as fast as you like.
sharkminusbear
sharkminusbear wrote:
Thanks for the input, I decided to go for it. I think the dual oscillator setup and the individually assigned waveforms is one of the big reasons. I also glossed over the waveshaping function, it will probably pair great with my STO. I may need to take rings out to make room... decisions


FYI to anyone else on the fence... I spent a day with it so far and am seriously impressed with the sounds and amount of features packed in this thing. I underestimated the dual oscillator setup, having 2 independent wavetables that can be linked/unlinked to the CV controls provides a ton of possibility. The CV attenuverters and mixer section are really convenient and free up other utility modules. I haven't even touched the rotary knob yet for the menu and preset management.

Craziest sound I've gotten so far is sending the square wave sub from my STO into the external/waveshaper input. You can get some incredibly nasty bass sounds.
joey


piston + synchrodyne + black hole dsp + glitch video effects + nerdseq
adnauseam
dysonant wrote:
adnauseam wrote:
Can anyone answer these questions for me? May be getting one in trade

1. How slowdoes it go? How about with negative input voltages?
2. I noticed I can use an external signal (ie saw) to sweep throughthe current wavetable. Can I do this really slowly? Im most familiar with my megawave that does this really well.

Thx in advance!


1. Pretty sure it only goes down to 14Hz, so just on the edge of clicks and audio. NO LFO. Negative voltages will make it go silent.


Thanks for this - kinda what I expected. Read they had to AC couple the outputs so going slow isn't exactly possible.
dysonant wrote:

2. Yes, you can do this on all three axises as slow or as fast as you like.


Okay well I think you misunderstand me. Each section of the osc has an "ext. in" jack that in the right mode I believe you can use external signals to scan through the wave table - the position in the current selected wave (using the 3 axis) will determine the wave shaping "algorithm". I suppose one could do this at a very very slow rate, no? I realize it's a digital module so perhaps it won't work as expected. I guess I'll find out.

Cheers, can't wait.
sharkminusbear
adnauseam wrote:

Okay well I think you misunderstand me. Each section of the osc has an "ext. in" jack that in the right mode I believe you can use external signals to scan through the wave table - the position in the current selected wave (using the 3 axis) will determine the wave shaping "algorithm". I suppose one could do this at a very very slow rate, no? I realize it's a digital module so perhaps it won't work as expected. I guess I'll find out.

Cheers, can't wait.


It sounds like you would just put a slow LFO or CV into the CV input of any of the waveform axis, that would sweep through the algorithm that is waveshaping the external input.

The "Ext. In" is for audio and it replaces the internal oscillator, and is then waveshaped by the current wavetable. The external input doesn't sweep through the wavetable, if that makes sense.
adnauseam
sharkminusbear wrote:
adnauseam wrote:

Okay well I think you misunderstand me. Each section of the osc has an "ext. in" jack that in the right mode I believe you can use external signals to scan through the wave table - the position in the current selected wave (using the 3 axis) will determine the wave shaping "algorithm". I suppose one could do this at a very very slow rate, no? I realize it's a digital module so perhaps it won't work as expected. I guess I'll find out.

Cheers, can't wait.


It sounds like you would just put a slow LFO or CV into the CV input of any of the waveform axis, that would sweep through the algorithm that is waveshaping the external input.

The "Ext. In" is for audio and it replaces the internal oscillator, and is then waveshaped by the current wavetable. The external input doesn't sweep through the wavetable, if that makes sense.


My understanding is that the ext in feature works just like the Richter Megawave. You send it a Saw signal and it'll play the wave table just like the internal osc would. It works like a look up table with each voltage level corresponding to a portion of the waveform currently selected. Call it wave shaping, call it scanning, but I believe that's what it does.

Am I off?
sharkminusbear
adnauseam wrote:
sharkminusbear wrote:
adnauseam wrote:

Okay well I think you misunderstand me. Each section of the osc has an "ext. in" jack that in the right mode I believe you can use external signals to scan through the wave table - the position in the current selected wave (using the 3 axis) will determine the wave shaping "algorithm". I suppose one could do this at a very very slow rate, no? I realize it's a digital module so perhaps it won't work as expected. I guess I'll find out.

Cheers, can't wait.


It sounds like you would just put a slow LFO or CV into the CV input of any of the waveform axis, that would sweep through the algorithm that is waveshaping the external input.

The "Ext. In" is for audio and it replaces the internal oscillator, and is then waveshaped by the current wavetable. The external input doesn't sweep through the wavetable, if that makes sense.


My understanding is that the ext in feature works just like the Richter Megawave. You send it a Saw signal and it'll play the wave table just like the internal osc would. It works like a look up table with each voltage level corresponding to a portion of the waveform currently selected. Call it wave shaping, call it scanning, but I believe that's what it does.

Am I off?


Granted, I've only had the thing for a day so I could be wrong. I looked up the megawave and it seems like a similar setup. The "Ext. In" is similar to the Waveshaper Input on the megawave, but the PH will only accept audio (it looks like the megawave accepts audio and CV).
nectarios
Is the MK3 two MK2s or is there something the MK2 has that the MK3, does not?

Got a Shapeshifter on impulse and I find the morphing to sound nothing like the morphing I've heard from the Piston Honda mk2, so rather dissapointed from the SS in terms of sound... Also I've seen some MK2s for a reasonable price so when the Shapeshifter gets sold, I am thinking a Mk2 and something else.
hawkfuzz
The mk3 is not able to do LFOs like the mk2. As far as morphing goes, look up videos. You can morph, but the mk3 seems to be the morph champ. The bit rate is higher as well, which can smooth things out if you want that. Mk2 is pretty harsh.

I don't know how the morphing compares to the SS, but they are two different unit so variance is to be expected.
tbecker
adnauseam wrote:
sharkminusbear wrote:
adnauseam wrote:

Okay well I think you misunderstand me. Each section of the osc has an "ext. in" jack that in the right mode I believe you can use external signals to scan through the wave table - the position in the current selected wave (using the 3 axis) will determine the wave shaping "algorithm". I suppose one could do this at a very very slow rate, no? I realize it's a digital module so perhaps it won't work as expected. I guess I'll find out.

Cheers, can't wait.


It sounds like you would just put a slow LFO or CV into the CV input of any of the waveform axis, that would sweep through the algorithm that is waveshaping the external input.

The "Ext. In" is for audio and it replaces the internal oscillator, and is then waveshaped by the current wavetable. The external input doesn't sweep through the wavetable, if that makes sense.


My understanding is that the ext in feature works just like the Richter Megawave. You send it a Saw signal and it'll play the wave table just like the internal osc would. It works like a look up table with each voltage level corresponding to a portion of the waveform currently selected. Call it wave shaping, call it scanning, but I believe that's what it does.

Am I off?


Yes, the ext is like the mega wave but for signals of a certain speed, meaning not perfect lfos. Other than that you get two inputs with indepedant waves and so in effect is like two ac coupled mega waves. On the scope you can see that the ext does in favt react to slow EG like maths but it doesn't respond properly until speeds are increased. As IME stated I think this rate is around 10-15 Hz or so and the waves start to look proper again. Hopefully this helps.
Dogma
nectarios wrote:
Is the MK3 two MK2s or is there something the MK2 has that the MK3, does not?

Got a Shapeshifter on impulse and I find the morphing to sound nothing like the morphing I've heard from the Piston Honda mk2, so rather dissapointed from the SS in terms of sound... Also I've seen some MK2s for a reasonable price so when the Shapeshifter gets sold, I am thinking a Mk2 and something else.


i got a SS too on a whim but was disappointing as well.....i find it a stretch to call it a wavetable synth in the historical sense - i dunno, it just wasnt for me
Im digging the e352 which i also picked up cheaply, but essentially its one osc where the piston is a true dual osc but the Piston MKIII has always had my heart....seems like its made by a musician
Sinamsis
So I've tried a ton of wavetable oscillators in euro. I'm on my second Shapeshifter. Sold my first on a whim, and really missed it. It's such a deep module, and wavetables is only one part. I find it fantastic, give it some time.


The PH mk II like others have said is more lofi, and can do LFOs. All the PH's are slightly different and I could easily see having all 3 (I'm crazy). For me the mk III improves in several areas. Sound quality, it's much easier to get a smooth, soft sound from it. Two oscillators. Unison mode. Modulation of the different axes has been improved (and I really appreciate this update, it's awesome). Preset memory, and ability to switch between presets. All in all, if I had to pick one it would be the mk III because of all the improvements.


In general, I've been getting more and more disappointed with my E352 in comparison to the Shapeshifter and PH mk III and I've debated dropping the E352 and pulling one of the others to put in my main rack (probably the Shapeshifter, because my orange case is just too beautiful to mess with). Also, generally speaking, I feel like Scott is knocking it out of the park with the mk IIIs and I'm really looking forward to snagging a HD mk III.
nectarios
Sinamsis wrote:
So I've tried a ton of wavetable oscillators in euro. I'm on my second Shapeshifter. Sold my first on a whim, and really missed it. It's such a deep module, and wavetables is only one part. I find it fantastic, give it some time.


The PH mk II like others have said is more lofi, and can do LFOs. All the PH's are slightly different and I could easily see having all 3 (I'm crazy). For me the mk III improves in several areas. Sound quality, it's much easier to get a smooth, soft sound from it. Two oscillators. Unison mode. Modulation of the different axes has been improved (and I really appreciate this update, it's awesome). Preset memory, and ability to switch between presets. All in all, if I had to pick one it would be the mk III because of all the improvements.


In general, I've been getting more and more disappointed with my E352 in comparison to the Shapeshifter and PH mk III and I've debated dropping the E352 and pulling one of the others to put in my main rack (probably the Shapeshifter, because my orange case is just too beautiful to mess with). Also, generally speaking, I feel like Scott is knocking it out of the park with the mk IIIs and I'm really looking forward to snagging a HD mk III.


Guess its just a matter of tastes. I find the Shapeshifter average sounding, at best.
I've resorted to using it as a modulator and only using the basic1/2 waveforms and the Pulse out. I wanted a wavetable osc for those glassy morph sounds, tried different Mult intervals, FM, phase modulation, tried different comb modes and all of the above whilst modulating the shape. Nothing came even close to what I've heard from the Piston Honda which does this nice glassy morphing just by moving the sliders.

Also, most of the time I am spending time trying to make it sound less brittle, "fake"... less "meh"...LPGs, overdriving it into a VCF and a CP3 help take some of it away...anyhow I've already put it up for sale so I just hope someone who likes it, buys it and I can move on to a Piston Honda, no idea which one.

One question, do you find the PH MK3's output to be low in comparison to the Shapeshifter, or any other VCO?
Nightly Closures
It seems to output the same volume as my others. To be honest, I really really love this module. It’s become the center of my modular setup very quickly. I’ve barely scratched the surface in regard to processing external audio yet. I use it with and without VCF. I’ve run it through the Roland filter and the wasp. This is an absolute keeper and is kicking my Erica wave table out of the rack; into another rack of course.
Sinamsis
nectarios
I see what you're saying about the SS. I certainly don't love all the waves they've chosen and it's essentially impossible to change them. The PH has a lot more variety to the wavetables. In terms of output they're similar (comparing the unfolded output of the SS to a single output of the PH).
Misk
lordymosh wrote:
Misk wrote:
tbecker wrote:
sharkminusbear wrote:
Need some advice, really torn between this and the e352. I know the feature set is different, but both sound very good. What have people used as deciding factors to go with the PH mk3 over other options?

I've always seen the IME/Harvestman stuff as more of a niche for digital/noise/drone and my only hands-on experience with wavetables is with Plaits.
The mkiii is a dual wtbl osc with user generated waves and dual waveshapers. So for me its an easy pick I use it as a stand alone complex osc, a dual osc, or a dual stereo processor. It is actually amazing and I have several tracks pilling up now that I am too busy to share. The ST doesn't do waveshaping and the PH is actually designed around the process. I imagine Scott likes to use this for stereo distortion as do I, still love to rock and destroy sound, why not?


don't forget that it could be used as dual VCAs in a pinch too!


How do you do this? Is it that you plug a sound source into the external input and modulate the gain i.e. v/oct jack with an envelope or any other type of modulation?


yeah—so you get some nice wavefolding vca action. it's pretty dope!
Kummer
Aside from the fact that it can do more things, why is everyone thinking this is better than the E352? I realize it's subjective, but the E352 sounds sooooo good. From the limited number of demos I have heard, I can't hear anything that makes this module so much better than the E352. Of course you might need to use external modules to get some of the same functionality, but as an oscillator and considering the character of it's sound, I'm not getting it... would be interested to hear others feedback.
Sinamsis
Kummer wrote:
Aside from the fact that it can do more things, why is everyone thinking this is better than the E352? I realize it's subjective, but the E352 sounds sooooo good. From the limited number of demos I have heard, I can't hear anything that makes this module so much better than the E352. Of course you might need to use external modules to get some of the same functionality, but as an oscillator and considering the character of it's sound, I'm not getting it... would be interested to hear others feedback.


No, the functionality of one cannot be reapproximated by the other. The E352 has two outputs, but both are controlled by the same v/oct input. The PH mk III has two essentially independently function oscillators (except for the the axis inputs, which there is only one input for each axis but control of each oscillator can be turned on or off). Similarly the e352 has other algorithms that the PH does not have. For me, I find the PH is just more intuitive and I struggle less to get something interesting out of it. I may be biased. But that's just my two cents. I also think I need to spend a little more time with the E352.
Kummer
Sinamsis wrote:
Kummer wrote:
Aside from the fact that it can do more things, why is everyone thinking this is better than the E352? I realize it's subjective, but the E352 sounds sooooo good. From the limited number of demos I have heard, I can't hear anything that makes this module so much better than the E352. Of course you might need to use external modules to get some of the same functionality, but as an oscillator and considering the character of it's sound, I'm not getting it... would be interested to hear others feedback.


No, the functionality of one cannot be reapproximated by the other. The E352 has two outputs, but both are controlled by the same v/oct input. The PH mk III has two essentially independently function oscillators (except for the the axis inputs, which there is only one input for each axis but control of each oscillator can be turned on or off). Similarly the e352 has other algorithms that the PH does not have. For me, I find the PH is just more intuitive and I struggle less to get something interesting out of it. I may be biased. But that's just my two cents. I also think I need to spend a little more time with the E352.


Fair enough, but you could just add a second E352 to match that or alternatively splash on an E370. I hear what your saying though, it seems you may get more for your money.
Misk
Kummer wrote:
Aside from the fact that it can do more things, why is everyone thinking this is better than the E352? I realize it's subjective, but the E352 sounds sooooo good. From the limited number of demos I have heard, I can't hear anything that makes this module so much better than the E352. Of course you might need to use external modules to get some of the same functionality, but as an oscillator and considering the character of it's sound, I'm not getting it... would be interested to hear others feedback.


I don't own an E352—i've only heard one, and it sounds incredible honestly. I only know that I really dig the workflow of the PHMKIII and I feel like the way Scott designed it—the philosophy—promotes further exploration within the tiny world of the module itself—that's why I dig it I think.

I don't use it on everything, but it's the module that keeps sort of reaching out to me whenever I'm patching something. I don't ever feel like I need to use it because I spent money on it and theres guilt there—but more like this subtle creeping desire to try something new with it that makes me want to always have it close by—if that makes sense w00t
6667
Some better demos might help. Control did a whole series of videos demonstrating the functionality and sound of the E352 in a clear and concise way, as well as a 6 minute demo with no talking. Theres basically no demos whatsoever for the phmk3 on YouTube besides that annoying one with the Microsoft sam voiceover over the entire demo.

Given what I've heard so far, it's really hard for me to believe ph comes anywhere close to the versatility of E352.
Crimesofthecrown
It plays so nice with a mangrove. This module is so much fun!!!'
Kummer
Misk wrote:
Kummer wrote:
Aside from the fact that it can do more things, why is everyone thinking this is better than the E352? I realize it's subjective, but the E352 sounds sooooo good. From the limited number of demos I have heard, I can't hear anything that makes this module so much better than the E352. Of course you might need to use external modules to get some of the same functionality, but as an oscillator and considering the character of it's sound, I'm not getting it... would be interested to hear others feedback.


I don't own an E352—i've only heard one, and it sounds incredible honestly. I only know that I really dig the workflow of the PHMKIII and I feel like the way Scott designed it—the philosophy—promotes further exploration within the tiny world of the module itself—that's why I dig it I think.

I don't use it on everything, but it's the module that keeps sort of reaching out to me whenever I'm patching something. I don't ever feel like I need to use it because I spent money on it and theres guilt there—but more like this subtle creeping desire to try something new with it that makes me want to always have it close by—if that makes sense w00t


aesthetics are important for sure.
Kummer
6667 wrote:
Some better demos might help. Control did a whole series of videos demonstrating the functionality and sound of the E352 in a clear and concise way, as well as a 6 minute demo with no talking. Theres basically no demos whatsoever for the phmk3 on YouTube besides that annoying one with the Microsoft sam voiceover over the entire demo.

Given what I've heard so far, it's really hard for me to believe ph comes anywhere close to the versatility of E352.


agreed, but I actually like Robotopsy's videos
joskery
There's a firmware update on the IME site for this, 1.2. Takes care of some startup bug and changes startup preset behavior.

EDIT: Is it possible to save the presets on an SD card? If not, has there been talk of enabling this? Would be nice, I think.
nectarios
Kummer wrote:
6667 wrote:
Some better demos might help. Control did a whole series of videos demonstrating the functionality and sound of the E352 in a clear and concise way, as well as a 6 minute demo with no talking. Theres basically no demos whatsoever for the phmk3 on YouTube besides that annoying one with the Microsoft sam voiceover over the entire demo.

Given what I've heard so far, it's really hard for me to believe ph comes anywhere close to the versatility of E352.


agreed, but I actually like Robotopsy's videos


Its that Robotopsy video that made me want one.
Although 6667 has a point too, I've seen a good few E352 videos, but barely any of the PH MK3.
Sinamsis
That’s how it is with Harvestman stuff. Ha either join the cult or get the fuck out. Haha. Also earlier in the thread there’s a video (I think from Perfect Circuit) of Scott going through the module in oinstaking detail. If that’s not enough for you I don’t really know what to say. This notion that we are entitled to a bunch of videos explaining each module to us is mind boggling to me. Also Robotipsy videos are excellent so I can’t say I agree there.
nectarios
Sinamsis wrote:
That’s how it is with Harvestman stuff. Ha either join the cult or get the fuck out. Haha. Also earlier in the thread there’s a video (I think from Perfect Circuit) of Scott going through the module in oinstaking detail. If that’s not enough for you I don’t really know what to say. This notion that we are entitled to a bunch of videos explaining each module to us is mind boggling to me. Also Robotipsy videos are excellent so I can’t say I agree there.


Erm, misunderstanding there. Robotopsy's video is what made me want one because it went through a lot of detail and loads of sounds.
Its users' videos that are missing, like someone doing killer stuff with it. I was not saying that there is lack of information on the module it self.

Then again that is to be expected as its newer than E352 so people are still getting to know the thing and probably more people about to get theirs as well.
Kummer
Sinamsis wrote:
That’s how it is with Harvestman stuff. Ha either join the cult or get the fuck out. Haha. Also earlier in the thread there’s a video (I think from Perfect Circuit) of Scott going through the module in oinstaking detail. If that’s not enough for you I don’t really know what to say. This notion that we are entitled to a bunch of videos explaining each module to us is mind boggling to me. Also Robotipsy videos are excellent so I can’t say I agree there.


If i remember correctly the audio sucks in that video. And i don't think anyone said that we are "entitled" to a video (no one is entitled to anything IMO) but they definitely go a long ways in helping to decide a purchase decision, especially if you don't live near a modular shop. Also, I have a mk1 Harvestman digital filter and really like it, and generally speaking I like the crunchy sound all his modules tend to have, but it doesn't sound too different from all the other wavetable oscillators out there (as far as I can tell) whereas the E352, in my estimation, has a very smooth and glossy sort of sound, which I personally tend to prefer. Starting from there I can run it through various other modules to get a particular sound character I might be after.

Edit: I AM impressed at all the extras you get for your money with the phmk3 though
dooj88
i had the phmk3 on my radar since scott teased it earlier this year on IG, but no real need for it since i've had an e352 since it came out and a SS. i recently picked up a phmk2 and fell in love with the sound, and it kicked my e352 out of the rack. the grit is gorgeous. makes me lusty for a mk3, there's something really memorable to the sounds from both of these modules.

the e352 is suave and supremely capable, but a bit clinical for my style, though i can't get rid of it either. along with brads and equation composer, i think i have a wavetable problem.

6667 wrote:
besides that annoying one with the Microsoft sam voiceover over the entire demo.


you bite your tongue! robotopsy's videos are a treasure.
nectarios
Kummer wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
That’s how it is with Harvestman stuff. Ha either join the cult or get the fuck out. Haha. Also earlier in the thread there’s a video (I think from Perfect Circuit) of Scott going through the module in oinstaking detail. If that’s not enough for you I don’t really know what to say. This notion that we are entitled to a bunch of videos explaining each module to us is mind boggling to me. Also Robotipsy videos are excellent so I can’t say I agree there.


If i remember correctly the audio sucks in that video. And i don't think anyone said that we are "entitled" to a video (no one is entitled to anything IMO) but they definitely go a long ways in helping to decide a purchase decision, especially if you don't live near a modular shop. Also, I have a mk1 Harvestman digital filter and really like it, and generally speaking I like the crunchy sound all his modules tend to have, but it doesn't sound too different from all the other wavetable oscillators out there (as far as I can tell) whereas the E352, in my estimation, has a very smooth and glossy sort of sound, which I personally tend to prefer. Starting from there I can run it through various other modules to get a particular sound character I might be after.

Edit: I AM impressed at all the extras you get for your money with the phmk3 though


Yeah, E352 is €659 whereas PH MK3 is €529 and has the two oscs at the panel.
mt3
Firmware ver 1.2 released:

https://ime-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/firmware/firmware/20/pisto nmk3fw12.zip


Bug Fixes
* A test condition escaped the test mode enclosure and sometimes led to ADC slowdown at startup. It has been eliminated.


New Feature: Startup preset mode changed
Under the "Startup" item in the global options menu, you may now select "Preset off", "Preset x", or "Morph x" where x is the preset number of 1-8. When the system is restarted, the module will boot into the specified mode with the preset number selected. Note that if your Preset Knob Mode is set to offset and the physical position of the preset attenuator knob is not zero (or if voltage is present on the Preset CV input), this will affect the selected preset number.
6667
nectarios wrote:
Kummer wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
That’s how it is with Harvestman stuff. Ha either join the cult or get the fuck out. Haha. Also earlier in the thread there’s a video (I think from Perfect Circuit) of Scott going through the module in oinstaking detail. If that’s not enough for you I don’t really know what to say. This notion that we are entitled to a bunch of videos explaining each module to us is mind boggling to me. Also Robotipsy videos are excellent so I can’t say I agree there.


If i remember correctly the audio sucks in that video. And i don't think anyone said that we are "entitled" to a video (no one is entitled to anything IMO) but they definitely go a long ways in helping to decide a purchase decision, especially if you don't live near a modular shop. Also, I have a mk1 Harvestman digital filter and really like it, and generally speaking I like the crunchy sound all his modules tend to have, but it doesn't sound too different from all the other wavetable oscillators out there (as far as I can tell) whereas the E352, in my estimation, has a very smooth and glossy sort of sound, which I personally tend to prefer. Starting from there I can run it through various other modules to get a particular sound character I might be after.

Edit: I AM impressed at all the extras you get for your money with the phmk3 though


Yeah, E352 is €659 whereas PH MK3 is €529 and has the two oscs at the panel.


E352 is €659? rip europeans
mt3
nectarios wrote:
Is the MK3 two MK2s or is there something the MK2 has that the MK3, does not?

Got a Shapeshifter on impulse and I find the morphing to sound nothing like the morphing I've heard from the Piston Honda mk2, so rather dissapointed from the SS in terms of sound... Also I've seen some MK2s for a reasonable price so when the Shapeshifter gets sold, I am thinking a Mk2 and something else.


Cyclebox mk II with Expander.
Best ever.
w00t
Sinamsis
nectarios wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
That’s how it is with Harvestman stuff. Ha either join the cult or get the fuck out. Haha. Also earlier in the thread there’s a video (I think from Perfect Circuit) of Scott going through the module in oinstaking detail. If that’s not enough for you I don’t really know what to say. This notion that we are entitled to a bunch of videos explaining each module to us is mind boggling to me. Also Robotipsy videos are excellent so I can’t say I agree there.


Erm, misunderstanding there. Robotopsy's video is what made me want one because it went through a lot of detail and loads of sounds.
Its users' videos that are missing, like someone doing killer stuff with it. I was not saying that there is lack of information on the module it self.

Then again that is to be expected as its newer than E352 so people are still getting to know the thing and probably more people about to get theirs as well.


I should've quoted, that wasn't directed towards you. That was mostly in response to 6667's assertions. Harvestman modules have always been niche. The newer modules seem to target a broader market but in general maintain the Harvestman/IME sonic aesthetic. All in all it seems that Scott has put some degree of emphasis on improving sound quality (for example the Tyme Sefari updates we may or may not see).

Regarding comparing the sound of the PH mk III and E352, if you're comparing apples to apples the wavetable aspects of either, I think it's hard to draw any conclusion. I think the banks that each manufacturer have chosen are very specific. Fortunately it seems that the end user can fairly easily replace the wavetables in either module, so uploading PH mk III wavetables into the E352, vice versa, or uploading the same user banks to both would be more a direct comparison. I bet there's not a massive difference in sound quality. Now when modulation comes in, and you're really pushing the FM, etc, I suspect that will be a much different story. But I don't know this for a fact.

That said, as I've said before, they're very different modules. Personally I'm just having trouble getting into the E352. Again, maybe I need to just dedicate some time to it. But I immediately clicked with all the Piston Hondas. Also I find scanning the wavetables to easier with the PH, and in general I find the PH more immediate. But I'm probably biased.
Sinamsis
mt3 wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Is the MK3 two MK2s or is there something the MK2 has that the MK3, does not?

Got a Shapeshifter on impulse and I find the morphing to sound nothing like the morphing I've heard from the Piston Honda mk2, so rather dissapointed from the SS in terms of sound... Also I've seen some MK2s for a reasonable price so when the Shapeshifter gets sold, I am thinking a Mk2 and something else.


Cyclebox mk II with Expander.
Best ever.
w00t



Ha, really? Over the HD mk II?
placebo92
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
It plays so nice with a mangrove. This module is so much fun!!!'


Glad to hear that, I'm building my small system around the PH MK3 and the Mangrove, Should be getting the Honda next week I hope!

Very excited.
mt3
Sinamsis wrote:
mt3 wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Is the MK3 two MK2s or is there something the MK2 has that the MK3, does not?

Got a Shapeshifter on impulse and I find the morphing to sound nothing like the morphing I've heard from the Piston Honda mk2, so rather dissapointed from the SS in terms of sound... Also I've seen some MK2s for a reasonable price so when the Shapeshifter gets sold, I am thinking a Mk2 and something else.


Cyclebox mk II with Expander.
Best ever.
w00t



Ha, really? Over the HD mk II?


Over everything.
Over HDmkII. Over PHmkIII.
It's not for the feinting hearts...
Funky40
Sinamsis wrote:
Personally I'm just having trouble getting into the E352.

You might want to find the wavetables that are the right ones for you.
check the user uplaoded wavetables available thru the waveeditor software.
prelisten directly on the waveeditor app !.......in case you never bothered with that app so far wink

and one thing:
the E370 has a insanigly nice working sync input. E352 must be same.
my post and "emebs" answer ( the programmer) is to find in the old E370/E371 thread ( last two pages ).
you can "work" with wavetables when beeing fed as a sync master.
so a PH3 and a E352 should make for a wonderful pair of VCOs i strongly suspect.


personally, having the E370 which is definitly the all end of all VCO wishes, seriously !
I´m still lusting for the PH mkIII.
But thats then me having something defective in my Brain hihi ....i see there no other conclusion lol
Sinamsis
mt3
Damn. How come? I owned one for quite a while, and I really liked it. But I ended up swapping out for an HD mk II, which I found more immediate, and was the first 259 inspired oscillator that really spoke to me. So now that I've been debating dropping the E352, I've really considered replacing it with my HD mk II. Which would be ridiculous, because my other main oscillators in the case are a Two59 and a CsL (though that is pretty far away from the 259). Getting a Cyclebox again definitely crossed my mind. My main issue with the Cyclebox is I could never remember the dipswitch settings. It would just stress me out haha. And I kinda viewed the Shapeshifter as the logical continuation of the Cyclebox. Anyways, kinda hijacking the thread but whatever.
Sinamsis
Funky40 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Personally I'm just having trouble getting into the E352.

You might want to find the wavetables that are the right ones for you.
check the user uplaoded wavetables available thru the waveeditor software.
prelisten directly on the waveeditor app !.......in case you never bothered with that app so far wink



If it were just down to replacing wavetables, I could do that just as easily with the PH. It's more so about the whole user experience, which feels much more organic with the PH to me (whatever any of that means, they're very vague statements I know). I just feel like I struggle using the E352 more, whereas the PH is very comfortable for me and maybe that's just because I've been using a Piston Honda in one form or another for the past four or five years.
mt3



Regardless whether you even own an analogue wavetable oscillator, download the FREE Waveedit software. It's the best thing of all:
http://synthtech.com/waveedit

Waveforms and wavetables are available here:
https://waveeditonline.com
mt3
Sinamsis wrote:
mt3
Damn. How come? I owned one for quite a while, and I really liked it. But I ended up swapping out for an HD mk II, which I found more immediate, and was the first 259 inspired oscillator that really spoke to me. So now that I've been debating dropping the E352, I've really considered replacing it with my HD mk II. Which would be ridiculous, because my other main oscillators in the case are a Two59 and a CsL (though that is pretty far away from the 259). Getting a Cyclebox again definitely crossed my mind. My main issue with the Cyclebox is I could never remember the dipswitch settings. It would just stress me out haha. And I kinda viewed the Shapeshifter as the logical continuation of the Cyclebox. Anyways, kinda hijacking the thread but whatever.


Yes, I agree with everything you stated.

Cyclebox was my first "whatthawhat???" module where I unlearned preconceptions and learned to never bring expectations of how I would like things to behave. It's the first module to reward my patience, with beautifully rhythmic harsh morphing glitches. That's the caveat to my comment.

Nothing wrong with HDmkII, Braids, DPO, PHmkIII, Loquelic, AFG, SynthTech's E35X, etc. I like them all.
I've consciously avoided reading anything about Shapeshifter. I fully expect it to be Cyclebox++ as well. I'll try one eventually....

Other lovely Cyclebox features:
* three oscillators!!! a foreshadowing of the HDmk3...
* iFM (internal FM)
* PH2 phase shifts OSC2 (in mode 0001, phase modulation similar to Hertz Donut's Tracking set to Orange mode)
* LEAD and LAG outs
* the Expander turns it into a completely different module
* five LED frequency visualization (another module with unusual visual feedback is Qotile Ultimatum...)
* switches used to be a thing in modular synthesis
* MEGA mode (8 stacked detuned copies of OSC1)
* WIDE-RANGE MEGA mode
* one-shot mode
* Percussive mode. drum heaven.
* I'm pretty certain it's by design that no one is able to remember what modes the 4-bit switches correspond to
* that said, modes 1010 and its complement, 0101 are all anyone needs
* the sound of morphing
* before there was Warps, there was Cyclebox's modes

Intellijel
peripatitis
I was watching James Cigler's excellent demo of the ph mkii and it really sounds amazing there! So there is this morph discontinuity parameter, does this also exist in mk3 I don't see a cv input labeled as such?

Also regarding the wavetable addressing is it only with a sawtooth or could one perhaps use an arbitrary signal (like the output of one of the two oscillators) to get something different?
sharkminusbear
peripatitis wrote:
I was watching James Cigler's excellent demo of the ph mkii and it really sounds amazing there! So there is this morph discontinuity parameter, does this also exist in mk3 I don't see a cv input labeled as such?

Also regarding the wavetable addressing is it only with a sawtooth or could one perhaps use an arbitrary signal (like the output of one of the two oscillators) to get something different?


The mk3 has a Tone setting in the menu that can apply aliasing to the waveforms to introduce distortion and tones similar to the older models. Not sure if that is quite the same as the morph discontinuity through. You can also turn the morphing on or off so the CV will morph or step through the waveforms.

Not sure about your second question...
joskery
Yes, any CV can be used to scan the wavetables. Not only sawtooths.
Sinamsis
mt3 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
mt3
Damn. How come? I owned one for quite a while, and I really liked it. But I ended up swapping out for an HD mk II, which I found more immediate, and was the first 259 inspired oscillator that really spoke to me. So now that I've been debating dropping the E352, I've really considered replacing it with my HD mk II. Which would be ridiculous, because my other main oscillators in the case are a Two59 and a CsL (though that is pretty far away from the 259). Getting a Cyclebox again definitely crossed my mind. My main issue with the Cyclebox is I could never remember the dipswitch settings. It would just stress me out haha. And I kinda viewed the Shapeshifter as the logical continuation of the Cyclebox. Anyways, kinda hijacking the thread but whatever.


Yes, I agree with everything you stated.

Cyclebox was my first "whatthawhat???" module where I unlearned preconceptions and learned to never bring expectations of how I would like things to behave. It's the first module to reward my patience, with beautifully rhythmic harsh morphing glitches. That's the caveat to my comment.

Nothing wrong with HDmkII, Braids, DPO, PHmkIII, Loquelic, AFG, SynthTech's E35X, etc. I like them all.
I've consciously avoided reading anything about Shapeshifter. I fully expect it to be Cyclebox++ as well. I'll try one eventually....

Other lovely Cyclebox features:
* three oscillators!!! a foreshadowing of the HDmk3...
* iFM (internal FM)
* PH2 phase shifts OSC2 (in mode 0001, phase modulation similar to Hertz Donut's Tracking set to Orange mode)
* LEAD and LAG outs
* the Expander turns it into a completely different module
* five LED frequency visualization (another module with unusual visual feedback is Qotile Ultimatum...)
* switches used to be a thing in modular synthesis
* MEGA mode (8 stacked detuned copies of OSC1)
* WIDE-RANGE MEGA mode
* one-shot mode
* Percussive mode. drum heaven.
* I'm pretty certain it's by design that no one is able to remember what modes the 4-bit switches correspond to
* that said, modes 1010 and its complement, 0101 are all anyone needs
* the sound of morphing
* before there was Warps, there was Cyclebox's modes

Intellijel


Dude, left you hanging. Sorry I thought I responded. Ha, definitely don't look at the Shapeshifter then.... Ha, I think it checks a lot of those boxes. Cyclebox is a great module. I think about snagging it again from time to time. But like I said, I switched it out for an HD mk II and haven't really looked back. For me the Cyclebox had a lot of over lap with the Shapeshifter (though still very different) and the relative simplicity of the HD (I heard the HD was the inspiration for the Cyclebox) won me over.

Bring things back to topic, I really just can't get along with my E352. It sounds good. But the UI for me is just not working. I'm getting rid of it. I ended up scavenging a few modules from my Harvestman case to put into my larger case for the time being, and the PH mk III is definitely replacing it for now. Some of these modules will stay in my bigger case (like the Double Andore, it's a duplicate). But I may have to buy another PH mk III. I like this oscillator that much. Here's a quick clip where the PH does the lead line. It's a pretty simple patch, was mainly trying to workout accumulators in the Cirklon. But I love this module.


IG LINK
Pighood
I'm a Cycleslut too....a fine instrument for those grilpgrilp noises we all adore
mt3
Sinamsis wrote:
But I may have to buy another PH mk III. I like this oscillator that much. Here's a quick clip where the PH does the lead line. It's a pretty simple patch, was mainly trying to workout accumulators in the Cirklon. But I love this module.


Maybe wait for the HDmkIII instead of another PHmkIII.

Yes, I'm pretending I don't know who this "Shapeshifter" is.
w00t
mt3
peripatitis wrote:
I was watching James Cigler's excellent demo of the ph mkii and it really sounds amazing there! So there is this morph discontinuity parameter, does this also exist in mk3 I don't see a cv input labeled as such?

Also regarding the wavetable addressing is it only with a sawtooth or could one perhaps use an arbitrary signal (like the output of one of the two oscillators) to get something different?


Waveforms can be addressed/scanned by any method/waveform, both LFO and audiorate modulation (try scanning audiorate, very good!).
Sinamsis
mt3 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
But I may have to buy another PH mk III. I like this oscillator that much. Here's a quick clip where the PH does the lead line. It's a pretty simple patch, was mainly trying to workout accumulators in the Cirklon. But I love this module.


Maybe wait for the HDmkIII instead of another PHmkIII.

Yes, I'm pretending I don't know who this "Shapeshifter" is.
w00t


Oh dude, the HD mk III is definitely getting purchased (I don't think I'll keep my mk II though). Ha, I probably won't get a second PH mk III, but if one gets posted at a good price I might not resist. Basically my dedicated Harvestman case is fragmented right now. There are certain Harvestman modules that I love so much that I want to use them in my other system, but patching across systems is such a pain, so I pulled them and dropped them into my bigger case. Right now those are the PH mk III, the Zorlon Cannon mk II, Argos Bleak and Stillson Hammer mk II. The Argos Bleak and maybe the Stillson Hammer could be transferred between cases when needed I. In general, I know it's a little silly to duplicate modules. But I just really click with the Harvestman design. And some times you find great deals on them. Stillson Hammer mk II's are getting posted for pretty good prices these days, for example.
Tonefloat01
mt3 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
But I may have to buy another PH mk III. I like this oscillator that much.


Maybe wait for the HDmkIII instead of another [b]PHmkIII[



I watched the video of a demo of the HDmkIII (at Perfect Circuit?) and liked what I heard. Definitely will keep an eye on this one. Guinness ftw!
mt3
I assembled some Cyclebox wavefolded by PHmkIII while scanning its Y-axis at audiorate. Strictly an academic demonstration (not for resale). Details within.

PHmkIII Audiorate Scanning
nectarios
If anyone's changed their minds about their PHmk3 and wants a 2 month old Shapeshifter, I am here...just sayin' Mr. Green
robbasvenna
Hello peoples!

So, my daughter messed around with my modular and somehow managed to get the PH mk3s big tune knobs to scale in semi-tones..! I’ve tried to find how to get it to do that again, but I can’t for the life of me figure it out... Does anybody know the button combo?
AndreasD
From the manual:

The two frequency controls set the
coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the
oscillator. Their specific functions may be
reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS
menu
by pressing the Encoder and Link
button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode”
item. “Normal” assigns the large orange
knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to
Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob
to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse
Tune
robbasvenna
AndreasD wrote:
From the manual:

The two frequency controls set the
coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the
oscillator. Their specific functions may be
reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS
menu
by pressing the Encoder and Link
button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode”
item. “Normal” assigns the large orange
knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to
Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob
to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse
Tune


Thanks for the answer, but that’s a different function. The function I’m looking for is to be able to sweep the tune knob in semi-tones (stepped) and not in smooth sweeps across all frequencies. My daughter found that mode somehow and I can’t get back to it. Seems like a cool mode for FM!
lordymosh
What filter(s) are you guys using with it? I have a Belgrad and Erica Synth's Black Polivoks V2 but I'm finding them a bit lackluster in conjunction with the PH MK3. I end up not using those filters at all, which is a waste as the PH Mk3 is the only oscillator I have in my system. Best to get something like a Bionic Lester or forgo a filter altogether?
huffnPuff
lordymosh wrote:
What filter(s) are you guys using with it? I have a Belgrad and Erica Synth's Black Polivoks but I'm finding them a bit lackluster in conjunction with the PH MK3. Best to get something like a Bionic Lester or forgo a filter altogether?


Traditionally you’d use a filter with the saw and/or square outputs of a classic VCO. Wavetable VCOs, FM VCOs with wave folders, additive synthesis VCOs, physical modeling VCOs, granular VCOs etc etc (what did I leave out?) produce complex timbres on their own and are often used without any filtering or through an LPG.

Instead of using a filter try animating the sound e.g. by morphing between tables in the case of the PH.
peripatitis
lordymosh wrote:
What filter(s) are you guys using with it? I have a Belgrad and Erica Synth's Black Polivoks V2 but I'm finding them a bit lackluster in conjunction with the PH MK3. I end up not using those filters at all, which is a waste as the PH Mk3 is the only oscillator I have in my system. Best to get something like a Bionic Lester or forgo a filter altogether?


It probably isn't a specific filter you need but more
subtle filtering with again subtle but extensive modulation control.

I don't have a PH, just my experience from other wavetable oscilators/synths.
Btw I hear a lot that wavetable synthesis doesn't require filtering yet I cannot imagine how the microwave xt would sound without them smile
lordymosh
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try it out.
Sinamsis
I read or heard Scott say something about how he was inspired by the older wavetable synths and how he thought there was something special about a running a digital oscillator through a 12 dB filter. I don’t think his love for the Polivoks is coincidence. I really love using the Harvestman Polivoks with my PH. Also my Korgasmatron. And my Dual Borg. Just my two cents.

And regarding uses of filters I think it’s an important part of working with complex timbres, particularly LPFs. You create movement as you bring those higher harmonics in and out by modulating the cutoff. I almost always process my wavetable oscillators through a filter or LPG. Same goes for my complex oscillators.
peripatitis
+1
less steep filters , even 6db/0ct work very nice.
mt3
robbasvenna wrote:
AndreasD wrote:
From the manual:
The two frequency controls set the coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the oscillator. Their specific functions may be reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS menu by pressing the Encoder and Link button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode” item. “Normal” assigns the large orange knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse Tune


Thanks for the answer, but that’s a different function. The function I’m looking for is to be able to sweep the tune knob in semi-tones (stepped) and not in smooth sweeps across all frequencies. My daughter found that mode somehow and I can’t get back to it. Seems like a cool mode for FM!


Are you using an Argos Bleak per chance as well?
mt3
lordymosh wrote:
What filter(s) are you guys using with it? I have a Belgrad and Erica Synth's Black Polivoks V2 but I'm finding them a bit lackluster in conjunction with the PH MK3. I end up not using those filters at all, which is a waste as the PH Mk3 is the only oscillator I have in my system. Best to get something like a Bionic Lester or forgo a filter altogether?


Steiner filter.
WMD uHC.
Plague Bearer.

An array of notch and bandpass filters in series/parallel with modulated cutoff frequencies and modulated bandwidths are most effective.
Sinamsis
peripatitis wrote:
+1
less steep filters , even 6db/0ct work very nice.


I don't think I ever really used a one pole filter until I owned a Modal 008. It was one of my favorite filter types on that synth, which seems weird to me for some reason. Haha, but it was awesome.
robbasvenna
mt3 wrote:
robbasvenna wrote:
AndreasD wrote:
From the manual:
The two frequency controls set the coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the oscillator. Their specific functions may be reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS menu by pressing the Encoder and Link button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode” item. “Normal” assigns the large orange knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse Tune


Thanks for the answer, but that’s a different function. The function I’m looking for is to be able to sweep the tune knob in semi-tones (stepped) and not in smooth sweeps across all frequencies. My daughter found that mode somehow and I can’t get back to it. Seems like a cool mode for FM!


Are you using an Argos Bleak per chance as well?


Nope, just the PH Mk 3...
mt3
robbasvenna wrote:
mt3 wrote:
robbasvenna wrote:
AndreasD wrote:
From the manual:
The two frequency controls set the coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the oscillator. Their specific functions may be reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS menu by pressing the Encoder and Link button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode” item. “Normal” assigns the large orange knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse Tune


Thanks for the answer, but that’s a different function. The function I’m looking for is to be able to sweep the tune knob in semi-tones (stepped) and not in smooth sweeps across all frequencies. My daughter found that mode somehow and I can’t get back to it. Seems like a cool mode for FM!


Are you using an Argos Bleak per chance as well?


Nope, just the PH Mk 3...


Nothing was plugged into the 1V/Octave jack? Must be a hidden mode...
robbasvenna
mt3 wrote:
robbasvenna wrote:
mt3 wrote:
robbasvenna wrote:
AndreasD wrote:
From the manual:
The two frequency controls set the coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the oscillator. Their specific functions may be reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS menu by pressing the Encoder and Link button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode” item. “Normal” assigns the large orange knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse Tune


Thanks for the answer, but that’s a different function. The function I’m looking for is to be able to sweep the tune knob in semi-tones (stepped) and not in smooth sweeps across all frequencies. My daughter found that mode somehow and I can’t get back to it. Seems like a cool mode for FM!


Are you using an Argos Bleak per chance as well?


Nope, just the PH Mk 3...


Nothing was plugged into the 1V/Octave jack? Must be a hidden mode...


Nothing plugged into the 1V/Octave jack. So, yeah, probably a hidden mode haha! For melodic FM it would be really helpful. Hope it will be revealed!
Crimesofthecrown
lordymosh wrote:
What filter(s) are you guys using with it?


Three Sisters and it is tasty....spent a few hours with it last night the sounds are so vast.
mt3
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
lordymosh wrote:
What filter(s) are you guys using with it?


Three Sisters and it is tasty....spent a few hours with it last night the sounds are so vast.


Yes, this was what I had in mind with the notch/bandpass setup.
polystill
I just picked one of these up and love it. Really impressive module.
Prunesquallor
And on another note, the Hertz Donut MkIII has been announced. Hot damn! Looks like I have to pick up both!
Tumulishroomaroom
I was on the verge of getting this one but I feel like the HD MkIII will suit my tastes more. Picking it up as soon as it comes out. Now if there could be a new run of Double Andore at the same time that'd be fantastic.
brianobush
Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
I was on the verge of getting this one but I feel like the HD MkIII will suit my tastes more. Picking it up as soon as it comes out. Now if there could be a new run of Double Andore at the same time that'd be fantastic.


Scott said the Andore Jr would be coming up at the end of the year. He had it in the demos of PH mk III and HD mk III, was 12 hp or so. Not sure if it is going to have an preset mgr stuff.

http://www.modulargrid.net/e/the-harvestman-andore-jr

The HD seems to be a nice angle on FM that will be very different than the PH. I just got the PH and loving it.
joskery
Having slight trouble understanding the preset system. When you press the preset button, you go preset -> morph -> panel settings, is that right?

Also, the manual says that you have to press down the encoder to edit any preset. Can i just tweak and then select save to preset x?

Thanks!
ignatius
HD MK3 demo

Nightly Closures
I believe you have to click the encoder. It will then say “editing”. Then, you make your changes. Then, you hold down the encoder and press the preset button to enter preset menu. There you choose where you’d like it saved. I feel like I’ve had some inconsistent results saving. However, I’m sure it’s down to user error at this point. I’ve only started using the preset functions last week.
joskery
Okay, thanks! Will have to give it a go using that logic. It’s not the most straightforward system. smile
suthnear
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I didn't see it on a quick scan of the thread: does the mk3 recall settings after a power cycle? Or do you need to save to preset and then load that?
mt3
suthnear wrote:
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I didn't see it on a quick scan of the thread: does the mk3 recall settings after a power cycle? Or do you need to save to preset and then load that?


You can set which preset loads on power up.
SpiritMolecule
hi need help i delete my presets but cant find where i get them back to factory already loadet the factory waves but the presets are empty would like to get them back and explore them more as i delete them already at the second day d'oh!
mt3
SpiritMolecule wrote:
hi need help i delete my presets but cant find where i get them back to factory already loadet the factory waves but the presets are empty would like to get them back and explore them more as i delete them already at the second day d'oh!




Tutorial starts at 26:20.
SpiritMolecule
mt3 wrote:
SpiritMolecule wrote:
hi need help i delete my presets but cant find where i get them back to factory already loadet the factory waves but the presets are empty would like to get them back and explore them more as i delete them already at the second day d'oh!




Tutorial starts at 26:20.


thx for reply but that i saw already, i mean the presets what are stored when u get it from factory ..
sharkminusbear
SpiritMolecule wrote:
hi need help i delete my presets but cant find where i get them back to factory already loadet the factory waves but the presets are empty would like to get them back and explore them more as i delete them already at the second day d'oh!


Check out the manual, you want to use the factory reset functionality to get the presets back.

“To perform a factory reset, make sure that NO patch cables are plugged into the module. Turn the module on while holding the Preset Mode button. The menu settings, CV input calibrations, and preset data will be reset.”
SpiritMolecule
how obvious not thought on that thx s lot
mt3
sharkminusbear wrote:
SpiritMolecule wrote:
hi need help i delete my presets but cant find where i get them back to factory already loadet the factory waves but the presets are empty would like to get them back and explore them more as i delete them already at the second day d'oh!


Check out the manual, you want to use the factory reset functionality to get the presets back.

“To perform a factory reset, make sure that NO patch cables are plugged into the module. Turn the module on while holding the Preset Mode button. The menu settings, CV input calibrations, and preset data will be reset.”


To add further:
Presets can't be saved. There are no "stock" presets per se (other than the factory preset method mentioned by sharkminusbear (obscure band reference?)).
Just hit the "Randomize Presets" menu option then "Save Presets".
sharkminusbear
mt3 wrote:


To add further:
Presets can't be saved. There are no "stock" presets per se (other than the factory preset method mentioned by sharkminusbear (obscure band reference?)).
Just hit the "Randomize Presets" menu option then "Save Presets".


I forgot about the random preset generation, there is a setting that generates a new random preset every time you send a trigger which is really fun too.

My name is just an inside joke from awhile ago when there were a ton of formulaic band names that had some variation of shark/bear/animal names in them seriously, i just don't get it
mt3
sharkminusbear wrote:
My name is just an inside joke from awhile ago when there were a ton of formulaic band names that had some variation of shark/bear/animal names in them seriously, i just don't get it


Ha. Ya, it threw me for a loop. I couldn't figure out which one it was!
Rockin' Banana!
brianobush
dooj88 wrote:
Tonefloat01 wrote:

One of the wavetables sounds like it has a lot of PPG waves from wavetable 13 in there which was one of my favorites back in the day.


in the demo from modular8, scott said he loves the old Waldorf stuff and some of those sounds are in one of the default banks.


Does anyone know which factory banks are from? Would like to know the lineage. I know four (or so) banks are from Rodent, Blush Response, and a few others. Where are the others (or inspired) from?
mt3
peripatitis wrote:
I was watching James Cigler's excellent demo of the ph mkii and it really sounds amazing there! So there is this morph discontinuity parameter, does this also exist in mk3 I don't see a cv input labeled as such?


Forgot to answer this...

The Preset system is essentially the old Morph + Discontinuity feature, but includes the panel state (e.g., knob settings, slider settings, config settings, etc.) as well as the waveform.

There are two modes PRESET and MORPH:
PRESET - hard, abrupt, and offensive transitions between waveforms + panel state
MORPH - smoother transitions between waveforms + panel states
joskery
But there’s also the option to disable morphing per axis - ’morph enable’ in the manual, in the menu section.
peripatitis
mt3 wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
I was watching James Cigler's excellent demo of the ph mkii and it really sounds amazing there! So there is this morph discontinuity parameter, does this also exist in mk3 I don't see a cv input labeled as such?


Forgot to answer this...

The Preset system is essentially the old Morph + Discontinuity feature, but includes the panel state (e.g., knob settings, slider settings, config settings, etc.) as well as the waveform.

There are two modes PRESET and MORPH:
PRESET - hard, abrupt, and offensive transitions between waveforms + panel state
MORPH - smoother transitions between waveforms + panel states


Cool thumbs up
thanks for the info.
dooj88
brianobush wrote:
dooj88 wrote:
Tonefloat01 wrote:

One of the wavetables sounds like it has a lot of PPG waves from wavetable 13 in there which was one of my favorites back in the day.


in the demo from modular8, scott said he loves the old Waldorf stuff and some of those sounds are in one of the default banks.


Does anyone know which factory banks are from? Would like to know the lineage. I know four (or so) banks are from Rodent, Blush Response, and a few others. Where are the others (or inspired) from?


not sure which are legacy waveforms in the mk3 as i'm still a generation behind, but i would image some of these are included from mk2.

0 - Factory A (noisy) Scott Jaeger
1 - Factory B (chords) Scott Jaeger
2 - Classic Waveforms Grant Richter
3 - Bosch Gardens Matthew Davidson
4 - 1µp NES/SID Jordan Bartee/Chris Novello
5 - Schumann PLL Chris Novello
6 - Allophones David Hylander
7 - Chebyshev Michael Firman
8 - old Factory (noisy) Scott Jaeger
9 - old Factory B (additive) Scott Jaeger
joey
I did one of the banks in the MK3 but i'm not actually sure where it is lol
mt3
Couldn't remember where I saw it.... found it.

So you can download the PHmkIII factory waveset from:
http://www.industrialmusicelectronics.com/products/21

Unzip and there is a readme.txt file. I copy/paste its contents below.


PISTON HONDA MARK III - FACTORY WAVESET INSTRUCTIONS
Equipment needed: MicroSDcard.

STEPS
1. Format the microSD card using your computer to “FAT” format.
2. Copy all eight .WAV files in this collection to the root level of the SD card. Do not rename them.
3. Eject the SD card and remove it from your computer.
4. Insert the SD card into the front panel slot of the Piston Honda Mark III.
5. Hold down the Piston's black rotary encoder button and press the "LINK" button to enter the OPTIONS menu. Release both buttons.
6. Turn the rotary encoder to scroll down to "Load Waves From SD". It's on the second page of options.
7. Press the rotary encoder button. The Piston Honda will check for the presence of 8 wave files named "1.wav" ~ "8.wav". If these files are not present, the operation will fail. If the files are valid, the Piston will load each of them into memory and then restart.

You should keep a backup of your wave configurations on the SD card or your computer. If you upgrade the firmware on the Piston Honda, the onboard waveforms will be reset to this factory data, so you must reload your custom waveforms.

FILE FORMAT / CREATING YOUR OWN
Any mono 16 bit WAV file will work with Piston Honda, but it likely won't work as expected unless you've formatted the wave data correctly. Use the editors mentioned at the end of this document to create and arrange the wave banks, or generate your own through other means! Each WAV file should consist of 64 single-cycle waves measuring 256 samples each. The WaveEdit program linked below correctly generates files in this format if all 64 wave slots in that program are filled.
Each of the eight WAV files to be loaded into the Piston Honda represents one of the 8 possible positions on the Z axis slider. A group of 8 waves in sequence within the file corresponds to the 8 values of the X slider, and the collection of these 8 groups within the file correspond to the values selected by the Y slider.
IMPORTANT - When you put your waves on the SD card, you must load the entire memory of 8 WAV files at once. They MUST be named "1.wav", "2.wav" all the way up to "8.wav". The files will not load if they are not named correctly, or if any of the 8 are missing. It is OK to have other files with different names stored on the card, but only the WAV files with correct file names will be loaded into the module.

FREE EDITORS
http://synthtech.com/waveedit - by Synthesis Technology
http://scw.sheetsofsound.com - By Darwin Grosse

FACTORY WAVESET INFO
Z1: Classic Waveforms 1 - (traditional)
Z2: Lucifer Additive - Scott Jaeger
Z3: Classic Waveforms 2 - (traditional)
Z4: LFSR Vectors - Scott Jaeger
Z5: Radek Rudnicki
Z6: Joey Blush
Z7: Rodent
Z8: Surachai Sutthisasanakul
Funky40
Thanks mt3, Great info.


has anybody ever compared the same waveform on the PHmkIII vs. the E370 ?
( just one waveform "active" on the Z axis in the PHIII then )
i wonder if it sounds similar in regards to the basic sound* respectivly if not how would you describe your impression ?
(* X or/and Y axis with some modulation or manual tweaking )




yes, real world patching will go beyond that basic sound.........
and there both VCOs seem to have their own tricks up their sleeve
mt3
Funky40 wrote:
has anybody ever compared the same waveform on the PHmkIII vs. the E370 ?
( just one waveform "active" on the Z axis in the PHIII then )
i wonder if it sounds similar in regards to the basic sound* respectivly if not how would you describe your impression ?
(* X or/and Y axis with some modulation or manual tweaking )

yes, real world patching will go beyond that basic sound.........
and there both VCOs seem to have their own tricks up their sleeve


The E370 looks like Piston Honda mk III + a Hertz Donut mk III. I could be wrong, I'm unfamiliar with the E370.
E370 looks very powerful.

Funky40
mt3 wrote:

E370 looks very powerful.

yeah, it is, I have one wink

interesting video. Not seen this bevore.
To me a main source of power of the E370 is its sync input(s) and how the sync behaves when changing the waves on the sync master VCO.
While a speciality of the PHIII might be its patchmorph.

still, it would be interesting to hear how the wavetables sound, E370 vs. PHIII. Just in regards to its basic sound.
......... damned GAS, still there, but it shouldn´t wink
mt3
Funky40 wrote:
mt3 wrote:

E370 looks very powerful.

yeah, it is, I have one wink

interesting video. Not seen this bevore.
To me a main source of power of the E370 is its sync input(s) and how the sync behaves when changing the waves on the sync master VCO.
While a speciality of the PHIII might be its patchmorph.

still, it would be interesting to hear how the wavetables sound, E370 vs. PHIII. Just in regards to its basic sound.
......... damned GAS, still there, but it shouldn´t wink


Ah in that case download the wav files from PHmkIII and install them on E370.
Or send me some you want me to install and I'll post the audio.
Sinamsis
I had the e352 (just sold it) and have a PH mk III. I personally did not care for the E352 wavetables. They weren’t bad. But I much prefer the PH mk III. I feel like there’s more variety in the available wavetables and in general are more reminiscent of the Waldorf type sounds I’m used to. More high frequency content, more edges (whatever that means). While the E352 has smoother sounds. These are all very vague descriptions. As I said before, it’s kind of a moot point as I suspect dropping one wavetable set on the other unit would probably yield similar results. They both seem to be capable of hi fi sounds to my undiscerning ear. If I wasn’t a lazy asshole I would’ve actually tested this before selling the E352. I just much preferred independent pitch control per oscillator and the UI/control options of the PH. To be clear, I think historically Harvestman/IME has been associated with aggressive, glitchy, lofi sounds. While the PH can get grimey I think it’s capable of very clean, fragile, beautiful sounds as well. And I haven’t even dropped in my own wavetables yet.
sharkminusbear
It’s interesting to hear people compare with the e352/e370, I almost went that route because I was afraid the PH mk3 would sound too “aggressive” or “glitchy”. I can get some amazing smooth sounds out of the thing and it really gets interesting when you set use different wave tables and cv controls for each oscillator. The FM normalization between the channels is also really useful, adding just a touch can give you some really great tones.

Really happy I took the plunge... I’m already eyeing the HD mk3 and the Argos bleak.
Funky40
Sinamsis wrote:
While the PH can get grimey I think it’s capable of very clean, fragile, beautiful sounds as well. And I haven’t even dropped in my own wavetables yet.

Yeah, guess i´m a burnt child in regards to The Harvestman ( now "Industrial Music ...or so ).
The PHII which i liked soundet bader when interpolation mode was enabled.
It was just not able to get rid of some (IMO, unnecessary) dirt.
and the so called TZFM on the PHII was -at least in my hands- just crap.

and much likely i would also give a shit on the factory loaded wavetables on the E352.
yeah, me too: need a nice selection of waves with highfrequenzy content and some edges......edges when the odulation comes in.

hmm, mt3, i need to check which ones i have from the library or if i can upload something
Voggg
just found out about this yesterday and already ordered one to replace my mk2. I never expected to replace the mk2 but this is an astonishing update.

Morph discontinuity modulation, in my experience, was better in theory than practice so I don't think I'll miss it. The lack of LFO setting is too bad but also something I rarely used (though it would be nice to have it on the second osc at least).

I'm curious if anyone feels limited by the smaller wavetable? I'm guessing not because it's so much easier to change waves.

I'm also wondering how people think the waveshaping sounds compared to mk2. In my opinion it waveshaping was not mk2's strong suit and it seems much improved in the mk3 demos. Have you been using this feature much?
vailsy
I don’t see the ph iii as a replacement for the mk ii .. most harvestman next gen modules are new modules basically

To my ears the mk iii sounds totally different to ii .. it has more features but smaller sliders make a big difference. I find it less easy to tame through filtering, it is higher fidelity, more open for aggressive modulation, really very different
lordymosh
I can't get enough of the Piston Honda MK3. My first and only eurorack oscillator but god damn its amazing.

https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/2nd-eurorack-experiment
Tumulishroomaroom
So I finally got this and damn does it sound amazing. I use it a lot here at the beginning and end as a drone with Kermit handling a good chunk of the modulation :



Will have a lot more to dig there. So many sound possibilities. This oscillator is drone heaven.
mt3
Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
So I finally got this and damn does it sound amazing. I use it a lot here at the beginning and end as a drone with Kermit handling a good chunk of the modulation :



Will have a lot more to dig there. So many sound possibilities. This oscillator is drone heaven.


Damn nice. Emptysetish sonics.
Have you paired the ER-101 with PHmkIII? How are you using the ER-101 in this patch?
Tumulishroomaroom
Thank you ! Glad you liked it smile Love Emptyset... I still have a LOT to learn though.

ER101 is actually... not used here... I had the VB out for a long time but now that I have the space for two I was glad to have the modulation immediacy and went for the easy route. Love the 101 though, so incredibly precise yet still easy to use.

So far I've mostly used Kermit and VB to modulate the PHmkIII but I definitely plan on trying more planned/sequenced stuff with the 101. I've had the PHmkIII three days so I haven't tried much yet.

Precise signal path of the PHmkIII here is -> uVCA amplitude modulated by Kermit -> Kamieniec (LFO by Kermit) -> DPLR delay for stereo image and grit -> Mixup -> El Capistan.
autopoiesis
FWIW, I loaded the factory E350 banks into my PHMkIII and, unless there's something wrong with the files on WaveEdit Online, the scanning through the PWM series (8-15) sounds considerably more stepped on the Piston than on my E350. (Morph enabled, tone Orthodox.) Still, I agree with Sinamsis that the PHMkIII can very capably yield the sweet spa ambient in addition to the rip your face off sociopath shit.

And FWIW, my earlier comments about the saw and square waves sounding not great in a typical subtractive patch is particular to the ones in the "Classic Waveforms 1" factory bank, which you can see if you load it in WaveEdit -- the edges are relatively soft and they look sort of like the kinds of saws and squares you would get from additive synthesis. The ones in E350 Bank B sound more "typical analog" through the PH.

It also took me a few months to notice that there's a tuning distance indicator next to the nearest note. I didn't see any mention of it in the manual but I might be in a minority not noticing this immediately. Helpful for dialing in semitone offsets between the two oscillators.

My only wish is that in some new firmware there could be digital VCAs added after the FM jacks, controlled by the CV inputs next to them. It's a shame to have such a capable dual complex oscillator without FM index.
Flamusic
Any Chance to set different output volumes for the two oscilators on the mix out ?
If not that would be a great feature if its possible.
kitzmann
I'm waffling between the PHMKIII and the Graphic VCO from Ericasynths but leaning more and more towards the MKIII. Any thoughts on my leanings? I'm liking the comments here about the MKIII and just looking at the layout of the unit appeals to me. Seems more tangible, with all those knobs, sliders and outputs. I fear that Ericasynths will have me screen diving far too much. Any thoughts?
Dennis
i think the playability like you said is stronger on the mk3
graphic vco is nice too but does it have 2 osc?
Tumulishroomaroom
The PHmkIII is very playable, the buttons combo are few and easy to remember (and are just shortcuts anyway), the sliders are great, especially when you put WMD's plastic cover on them smile
mortal3
Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
The PHmkIII is very playable, the buttons combo are few and easy to remember (and are just shortcuts anyway), the sliders are great, especially when you put WMD's plastic cover on them smile


^ indeed. Use them on all my sliders.. Piston, confundo, batumi, varigate..., sounds like a silly little thing but they just make these skinny little hard edged bits feel so much more tactile.
mt3
What is this "slider prophylactic" thou speaks ov?
placebo92
Must be talking about these little doodads:https://wmdevices.com/products/clear-fader-caps-for-eurorack-m odules-10-pack

Practice safe wiggles.
gb
autopoiesis wrote:

My only wish is that in some new firmware there could be digital VCAs added after the FM jacks, controlled by the CV inputs next to them. It's a shame to have such a capable dual complex oscillator without FM index.


This!
Leverkusen
gb wrote:
autopoiesis wrote:

My only wish is that in some new firmware there could be digital VCAs added after the FM jacks, controlled by the CV inputs next to them. It's a shame to have such a capable dual complex oscillator without FM index.


This!


Yeah, that would be great! It feels a bit funny when I use an external VCA for it. I explained it to me like the main concept was focussing on morphing wave tables while FM is the focus of the Donut. But being able to voltage control FM index in a simple way would indeed be truly lovely! love

Also I often wish that in LINK mode I still could tune the second oscillator to a peasant interval by hand.
x2mirko
Leverkusen wrote:
gb wrote:
autopoiesis wrote:

My only wish is that in some new firmware there could be digital VCAs added after the FM jacks, controlled by the CV inputs next to them. It's a shame to have such a capable dual complex oscillator without FM index.


This!


Yeah, that would be great! It feels a bit funny when I use an external VCA for it. I explained it to me like the main concept was focussing on morphing wave tables while FM is the focus of the Donut. But being able to voltage control FM index in a simple way would indeed be truly lovely! love

Also I often wish that in LINK mode I still could tune the second oscillator to a peasant interval by hand.


Same here, both these things seem like crazy oversights. I had absolutely expected that link mode would work like the tracking-feature on the hertz donut. So much so that I was surprised to find out that it just locks the frequency. Very weird design decision in my eyes.
gb
[/quote]
Also I often wish that in LINK mode I still could tune the second oscillator to a peasant interval by hand.[/quote]

And this!
This is how the Hertz Donut mk1 works (don‘t know about mk2).
A really handy feature...
gb
The Piston Honda mkIII in a "pretty" context next to the cursus iteritas and some OB-6 in the background...

Both Osc's of the PH were used as separate voices through optomix an FX's
Further patchdetails in the soundclouddescription.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/gb_soundcloud/piston-honda-mkiii[/s]
Dennis
piston Honda into optomix is really nice

did a melodic test myself love morphing thru the sweet spots alternating every note:

https://soundcloud.com/finsterholz/pistonmelody

envelope from Erica Dual EG sequenced from digitakt
spudboyblues
gb wrote:
autopoiesis wrote:

My only wish is that in some new firmware there could be digital VCAs added after the FM jacks, controlled by the CV inputs next to them. It's a shame to have such a capable dual complex oscillator without FM index.


This!


Thirded. Could see this as a switch in the menu - CV: Over Oscillator / Over FM Index

Obviously there's a lot that goes into that, on the coding side and UI considerations, etc., but outside looking in it feels like an easy win in the non-development vacuum!
autopoiesis
spudboyblues wrote:
gb wrote:
autopoiesis wrote:

My only wish is that in some new firmware there could be digital VCAs added after the FM jacks, controlled by the CV inputs next to them. It's a shame to have such a capable dual complex oscillator without FM index.


This!


Thirded. Could see this as a switch in the menu - CV: Over Oscillator / Over FM Index

Obviously there's a lot that goes into that, on the coding side and UI considerations, etc., but outside looking in it feels like an easy win in the non-development vacuum!


The module is already so close to having this, since when you switch into the waveshaping mode you get VC over amplitude of the external signal via the frequency inputs. So, maybe one day...
lakeshorephatty
gb wrote:
The Piston Honda mkIII in a "pretty" context next to the cursus iteritas and some OB-6 in the background...

Both Osc's of the PH were used as separate voices through optomix an FX's
Further patchdetails in the soundclouddescription.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/gb_soundcloud/piston-honda-mkiii[/s]


Cool sounds. Seems like there are some +/- to the mk 3. Does not seem to have that crazy good 8 bit grit, but has it's own strengths. Thanks for sharing!
rean1mator
Hi All,
So I know that the z slider switches between the 8 available wavesets with each wave set containing 64 single cycle wave forms.

But I'm a little unclear on what the x an y axes are affecting.
Nightly Closures
X is the waveform. Y is the set. Z is the set of Y’s.
rean1mator
Ok so X is one of the 64 available single cycle waveform in one of the 8 available wave sets--> Z. Now still a little confused as to what Y is. Can some expand on the explanation as to what "set" is?

thanks!!
Nightly Closures wrote:
X is the waveform. Y is the set. Z is the set of Y’s.
sharkminusbear
rean1mator wrote:
Ok so X is one of the 64 available single cycle waveform in one of the 8 available wave sets--> Z. Now still a little confused as to what Y is. Can some expand on the explanation as to what "set" is?

thanks!!
Nightly Closures wrote:
X is the waveform. Y is the set. Z is the set of Y’s.


Each slider has 8 positions, so X morphs through 8 waveforms for every Y position (64 in total for each bank). Z morphs between the 8 banks, so there are 512 possible positions.

If you download the WaveEdit software, it is easier to see how they are grouped.
adnauseam
rean1mator wrote:
Ok so X is one of the 64 available single cycle waveform in one of the 8 available wave sets--> Z. Now still a little confused as to what Y is. Can some expand on the explanation as to what "set" is?

thanks!!
Nightly Closures wrote:
X is the waveform. Y is the set. Z is the set of Y’s.


Think of the collection of waves as a Cube.

There are 8 points on each side of the cube, x moves horizontally, y moves up and down, and z backwards and forwards. The wave is deteremined by the position of the scanner. Having morphing on makes the wave a sort of blend of potential neighbouring waves. Morphing off means it jumps discretely between waves.

It's very similar to the Morphing Terrarium and others like it. The Malekko Megawave was the first to do it but has no interpolation/morphing between spots.
rean1mator
thanks for the primer on this, make much more sense now!
synonymist
Dennis wrote:
piston Honda into optomix is really nice

did a melodic test myself love morphing thru the sweet spots alternating every note:

https://soundcloud.com/finsterholz/pistonmelody

envelope from Erica Dual EG sequenced from digitakt


Hello Dennis. I agree. You have some nice sounds there. Juicy. smile

From the first investigation of my new Piston Honda Mark III, here are four tracks. They feature Optomix v2. Throughout, there is cross-modulation between the Piston Honda and an A-110-4. Session notes, common to all, are at each track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/model-ime1991-3-initial-studies-1-of -4

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/model-ime1991-3-initial-studies-2-of -4

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/model-ime1991-3-initial-studies-3-of -4

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/model-ime1991-3-initial-studies-4-of -4
StateAzure
Here's a dark ambient/drone I did with just the Piston Honda mk3 through a few different filters and some subtle wavetable modulation.


gb
StateAzure wrote:
Here's a dark ambient/drone I did with just the Piston Honda mk3 through a few different filters and some subtle wavetable modulation.




Really Nice!
What filters did you use?
StateAzure
Belgrad, SMR4R, Cinnamon and Filter 8.

Mostly it's SMR4R and Belgrad you hear. Cinnamon is just filtering some noise.
gb
StateAzure wrote:
Belgrad, SMR4R, Cinnamon and Filter 8.

Mostly it's SMR4R and Belgrad you hear. Cinnamon is just filtering some noise.

Thanks!
I use the PH mk3 often with a Cwejman DMF-2, a really nice combo, too!
david_r
EDIT: Looks like a factory reset fixed it. Got this used so not sure what the previous owner did. I do not see any instructions for calibration of the axis positions.

Hi All,

Think I'm facing an issue..

The Z-Axis with the slider all the way down shows 8 for the current position. Also if I move the attenuverters with no CV plugged in, the readings change. In the picture I have the attenuverter for the X axis slightly to the right and the position changes to 8. Is this normal?



Thanks,
David
Flamusic
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.

My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.

Anyone else noticed this ?
Asked two times @ IME but no response.
lordymosh
What do you guys plug into the external input? I tried a few things like sine wave, samples etc. but it doesn't sound good at all while messing with the wave table.
Crimesofthecrown
lordymosh wrote:
What do you guys plug into the external input? I tried a few things like sine wave, samples etc. but it doesn't sound good at all while messing with the wave table.


Feed it a nice LFO!
mt3


I posted this on the Harvestman page:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2980768


Index of Temporal Segmentations

0:00 Introverview
0:33 Panel Controls
1:19 Oscillator Selection
2:10 Morph Enable
3:01 PATCH: Piston Honda mk II Interlewd
3:29 Tuning Features
4:30 CV+/-8V Input (simple Vibrator)
5:30 Link Button
6:48 Sync Input
7:19 Dual Wavetable Sync patch (featuring Piston Honda mk II)
8:01 PATCH: Tyme Sefari mk II Interlewd (I always feel like nobody's watching me...)
8:47 Frequency Modulations (FM)
9:52 Unapologetically Harsh & Metallic Timbres
10:24 PATCH: Abraxas FM
11:15 PATCH: Piston Honda mk II External FM Input Interlewd
12:25 Wavetable CV
12:39 PATCH: Piston Honda mk II as LFO to mk III Z-axis
13:12 PATCH: Piston Honda mk II as LFO to mk III X-axis
13:51 PATCH: Smooth & Chaotic Y & Z axes
14:25 Anti-Interpol
14:43 PATCH: The Final Technique: Zorlon B Gate Modulations
15:22 Quick Intuitives
15:53 PATCH: Ambient Sefari Stillson Andore Zorlon Kermit & Friends (i.e., other shit I can't see)
mt3
lordymosh wrote:
What do you guys plug into the external input? I tried a few things like sine wave, samples etc. but it doesn't sound good at all while messing with the wave table.


Elaborate on "messing with the wave table".
Maybe mess with the Coarse Frequency knob ("wavefold amount" when in Ext. Input mode) instead.

Drums are the obvious write-in candidate as a sound source to mangle.

Send an envelope to an axis. Send that same envelope to CV-/+8V input (which CV controls the wavefold amount). Adjust starting position of the axes to taste via the slider. Adjust the Frequency knob to 9 o'clock for minimum signal to always be audible.
lordymosh
mt3 wrote:
lordymosh wrote:
What do you guys plug into the external input? I tried a few things like sine wave, samples etc. but it doesn't sound good at all while messing with the wave table.


Elaborate on "messing with the wave table".
Maybe mess with the Coarse Frequency knob ("wavefold amount" when in Ext. Input mode) instead.

Drums are the obvious write-in candidate as a sound source to mangle.

Send an envelope to an axis. Send that same envelope to CV-/+8V input (which CV controls the wavefold amount). Adjust starting position of the axes to taste via the slider. Adjust the Frequency knob to 9 o'clock for minimum signal to always be audible.


I had an lfo morphing the x and y axes. Also tried an envelope on the z axis. I also adjusted the sliders manually. I thought the course knob was to adjust the gain when using the external input.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Piston Honda mk3 in the forefront here
[s]https://soundcloud.com/lord_nadrol/drone-experiment-3[/s][/s]
mt3
lordymosh wrote:
I thought the course knob was to adjust the gain when using the external input.


Excellent track.
SlayerBadger!

I was hoping no one would ask about the Frequency knob in EXT MODE...

From description of Piston Hondas mk I and mk II the Guv'n'r said:
"The external signal is attenuated by the "GAIN" control and then fed "through" the piston using the currently selected wavetable as a lookup. So, instead of using the Internal section's ascending sawtooth waveform to address the waveform memory, it uses whatever you put into that jack. Use a sine wave for effects like the Buchla 259e."

Someone then inquired:
"Never having had my hands on a buchla I was wondering what aspect of a 259e is replicated by feeding it a sine wave?"
to which Guv'n'r replied:
"The "gain" knob functions much like the "warp" control on the 259e, and certain waveforms give you similar sonic results if you use a sine wave as input (the synthesis functions being performed are very similar in that case). The red and green waveshaping modes on the Hertz Donut are intentionally reminiscent of my favorite tables from old revisions of the 259e using this same variable-gain waveshaping scheme (red 6 and one of the green ones)."
The Harvestman
mt3
Flamusic wrote:
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.
My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.


It hasn't happened to me. I use Argos Bleak and Stillson, so I'm unfamiliar with other tuners/systems.

Have you tuned it according to the manual?
1. Prepare two control voltages measuring exactly 1V and 7V. Select a single oscillator so you can see the frequency and tuning controls on the display.
2. Turn the coarse tune on that oscillator to the minimum position, and turn the fine tune control to center position.
3. Insert the 1V voltage into the Tuned CV input (1v/oct), and adjust the oscillator's fine tune until the tuning display is entered on note C1.
4. Replace the 1V input voltage with 7V. Adjust the trimmer on the rear of the module for that oscillator (labeled OSC1SCALE or OSC2SCALE) until the display is centered on note C7.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no further adjustment is needed.
sharkminusbear
Really enjoyed that video, especially some of the patching tips and ideas! Looking forward to seeing pt. 2.

I haven’t even dived into the patch saving and morphing on mine, it would be cool to see what others are doing with it.
lordymosh
sharkminusbear wrote:
I haven’t even dived into the patch saving and morphing on mine, it would be cool to see what others are doing with it.


Same here! I've had the module as my first vco for months and still haven't explored everything. It's immense. w00t
tommygee
I'm debating with myself if I should buy a PHMK3, mainly for the more soft quirky melodic wavetable tones. The harsher tones and the chorused stacking voice effect is not my cup of tea.

Already got a PHMK2, and love the character of the module. Other VCO's in my rack are DPO, Plaits and my Instruo Cs-L will arrive later this week.

For owners of MK3: Would it make sense to get the PHMK3, already owning the PHMK2, for those specific needs or would it be overkill ?

Thanks
mt3
tommygee wrote:
I'm debating with myself if I should buy a PHMK3, mainly for the more soft quirky melodic wavetable tones. The harsher tones and the chorused stacking voice effect is not my cup of tea.

Already got a PHMK2, and love the character of the module. Other VCO's in my rack are DPO, Plaits and my Instruo Cs-L will arrive later this week.

For owners of MK3: Would it make sense to get the PHMK3, already owning the PHMK2, for those specific needs or would it be overkill ?

Thanks


For audiophile fidelity check out Synthesis Technology's offerings: the E352 and E370.
To soften while preserving quirks and glitches, run the oscillators through a lush reverb (e.g., Valhalla, especially their Shimmer).
PHMK3 and PHMK2 differ in tone and fidelity, they aren't that similar.
StateAzure
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.
My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.


It hasn't happened to me. I use Argos Bleak and Stillson, so I'm unfamiliar with other tuners/systems.

Have you tuned it according to the manual?
1. Prepare two control voltages measuring exactly 1V and 7V. Select a single oscillator so you can see the frequency and tuning controls on the display.
2. Turn the coarse tune on that oscillator to the minimum position, and turn the fine tune control to center position.
3. Insert the 1V voltage into the Tuned CV input (1v/oct), and adjust the oscillator's fine tune until the tuning display is entered on note C1.
4. Replace the 1V input voltage with 7V. Adjust the trimmer on the rear of the module for that oscillator (labeled OSC1SCALE or OSC2SCALE) until the display is centered on note C7.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no further adjustment is needed.


I've had similar issues with tuning the PH3, from lowest to high notes it can be really way out of tune. Calibrating using the trimmer as described helped somewhat, but at least with my module, the fine tune knob is unfortunately not fine enough..I've never been able to get the tuning centered.
mt3
StateAzure wrote:
I've had similar issues with tuning the PH3, from lowest to high notes it can be really way out of tune. Calibrating using the trimmer as described helped somewhat, but at least with my module, the fine tune knob is unfortunately not fine enough..I've never been able to get the tuning centered.


Which quantizer/sequencer are you using?
Sinamsis
tommygee wrote:
I'm debating with myself if I should buy a PHMK3, mainly for the more soft quirky melodic wavetable tones. The harsher tones and the chorused stacking voice effect is not my cup of tea.

Already got a PHMK2, and love the character of the module. Other VCO's in my rack are DPO, Plaits and my Instruo Cs-L will arrive later this week.

For owners of MK3: Would it make sense to get the PHMK3, already owning the PHMK2, for those specific needs or would it be overkill ?

Thanks


All the Piston Honda’s are different in terms of tone. I find the mk III very versatile. I greatly prefer the UI to the E352. And I didn’t appreciate a difference in terms of fidelity between the two, but I’m definitely not an audiophile and did by no means AB. More so at no point did I feel the PH mk III was of significantly lower audio quality or the E352 higher.
tommygee
Sinamsis wrote:
tommygee wrote:
I'm debating with myself if I should buy a PHMK3, mainly for the more soft quirky melodic wavetable tones. The harsher tones and the chorused stacking voice effect is not my cup of tea.

Already got a PHMK2, and love the character of the module. Other VCO's in my rack are DPO, Plaits and my Instruo Cs-L will arrive later this week.

For owners of MK3: Would it make sense to get the PHMK3, already owning the PHMK2, for those specific needs or would it be overkill ?

Thanks


All the Piston Honda’s are different in terms of tone. I find the mk III very versatile. I greatly prefer the UI to the E352. And I didn’t appreciate a difference in terms of fidelity between the two, but I’m definitely not an audiophile and did by no means AB. More so at no point did I feel the PH mk III was of significantly lower audio quality or the E352 higher.


Thanks for your input Sinamsis thumbs up
StateAzure
mt3 wrote:
StateAzure wrote:
I've had similar issues with tuning the PH3, from lowest to high notes it can be really way out of tune. Calibrating using the trimmer as described helped somewhat, but at least with my module, the fine tune knob is unfortunately not fine enough..I've never been able to get the tuning centered.


Which quantizer/sequencer are you using?


NerdSeq or Polyend Seq
Sinamsis
StateAzure wrote:
mt3 wrote:
StateAzure wrote:
I've had similar issues with tuning the PH3, from lowest to high notes it can be really way out of tune. Calibrating using the trimmer as described helped somewhat, but at least with my module, the fine tune knob is unfortunately not fine enough..I've never been able to get the tuning centered.


Which quantizer/sequencer are you using?


NerdSeq or Polyend Seq


Have you tried switching it so that the large knob is fine tune. I forget how to do it, and I have not tried, but I assume that’s why that function is available. Maybe I’m wrong.
StateAzure
Sinamsis wrote:
StateAzure wrote:
mt3 wrote:
StateAzure wrote:
I've had similar issues with tuning the PH3, from lowest to high notes it can be really way out of tune. Calibrating using the trimmer as described helped somewhat, but at least with my module, the fine tune knob is unfortunately not fine enough..I've never been able to get the tuning centered.


Which quantizer/sequencer are you using?


NerdSeq or Polyend Seq


Have you tried switching it so that the large knob is fine tune. I forget how to do it, and I have not tried, but I assume that’s why that function is available. Maybe I’m wrong.


That's a good idea, I'll see if I can figure out how to switch that around and see if it helps.
mt3
StateAzure wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
StateAzure wrote:
mt3 wrote:
StateAzure wrote:
I've had similar issues with tuning the PH3, from lowest to high notes it can be really way out of tune. Calibrating using the trimmer as described helped somewhat, but at least with my module, the fine tune knob is unfortunately not fine enough..I've never been able to get the tuning centered.


Which quantizer/sequencer are you using?


NerdSeq or Polyend Seq


Have you tried switching it so that the large knob is fine tune. I forget how to do it, and I have not tried, but I assume that’s why that function is available. Maybe I’m wrong.


That's a good idea, I'll see if I can figure out how to switch that around and see if it helps.


“The two frequency controls set the coarse and fine tuning frequencies of the oscillator. Their specific functions may be reversed in the MAIN “GLOBAL” OPTIONS menu by pressing the Encoder and Link button, scroll down to the “Freq Knob Mode” item. “Normal” assigns the large orange knob to Coarse Tune and the small knob to Fine Tune. “Reverse” assigns the large knob to Fine Tune and the small knob to Coarse Tune.”
- from the manual
Flamusic
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.
My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.


It hasn't happened to me. I use Argos Bleak and Stillson, so I'm unfamiliar with other tuners/systems.

Have you tuned it according to the manual?
1. Prepare two control voltages measuring exactly 1V and 7V. Select a single oscillator so you can see the frequency and tuning controls on the display.
2. Turn the coarse tune on that oscillator to the minimum position, and turn the fine tune control to center position.
3. Insert the 1V voltage into the Tuned CV input (1v/oct), and adjust the oscillator's fine tune until the tuning display is entered on note C1.
4. Replace the 1V input voltage with 7V. Adjust the trimmer on the rear of the module for that oscillator (labeled OSC1SCALE or OSC2SCALE) until the display is centered on note C7.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no further adjustment is needed.


I checked the calibration of the PH and its fine. no matter if send (calibrated)quantized cv from Voltageblock, Varigate or other sources.
When i tune the PH to the lowest note my sequencer can send, all other notes are out of tune. When i tune the PH to a higer note all notes are in tune without the lowest
mt3
Flamusic wrote:
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.
My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.


It hasn't happened to me. I use Argos Bleak and Stillson, so I'm unfamiliar with other tuners/systems.

Have you tuned it according to the manual?
1. Prepare two control voltages measuring exactly 1V and 7V. Select a single oscillator so you can see the frequency and tuning controls on the display.
2. Turn the coarse tune on that oscillator to the minimum position, and turn the fine tune control to center position.
3. Insert the 1V voltage into the Tuned CV input (1v/oct), and adjust the oscillator's fine tune until the tuning display is entered on note C1.
4. Replace the 1V input voltage with 7V. Adjust the trimmer on the rear of the module for that oscillator (labeled OSC1SCALE or OSC2SCALE) until the display is centered on note C7.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no further adjustment is needed.


I checked the calibration of the PH and its fine. no matter if send (calibrated)quantized cv from Voltageblock, Varigate or other sources.
When i tune the PH to the lowest note my sequencer can send, all other notes are out of tune. When i tune the PH to a higer note all notes are in tune without the lowest


Have you tried a factory reset to see if that might do the trick?
"To perform a factory reset, make sure that NO patch cables are plugged into the module. Turn the module on while holding the Preset Mode button. The menu settings, CV input calibrations, and preset data will be reset."
Flamusic
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.
My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.


It hasn't happened to me. I use Argos Bleak and Stillson, so I'm unfamiliar with other tuners/systems.

Have you tuned it according to the manual?
1. Prepare two control voltages measuring exactly 1V and 7V. Select a single oscillator so you can see the frequency and tuning controls on the display.
2. Turn the coarse tune on that oscillator to the minimum position, and turn the fine tune control to center position.
3. Insert the 1V voltage into the Tuned CV input (1v/oct), and adjust the oscillator's fine tune until the tuning display is entered on note C1.
4. Replace the 1V input voltage with 7V. Adjust the trimmer on the rear of the module for that oscillator (labeled OSC1SCALE or OSC2SCALE) until the display is centered on note C7.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no further adjustment is needed.


I checked the calibration of the PH and its fine. no matter if send (calibrated)quantized cv from Voltageblock, Varigate or other sources.
When i tune the PH to the lowest note my sequencer can send, all other notes are out of tune. When i tune the PH to a higer note all notes are in tune without the lowest


Have you tried a factory reset to see if that might do the trick?
"To perform a factory reset, make sure that NO patch cables are plugged into the module. Turn the module on while holding the Preset Mode button. The menu settings, CV input calibrations, and preset data will be reset."


I did several factory resets, changed the tuning knob behaviour, tried different cv sources. Its the lowest note wich is always 30 to 40 cents out of tune.
StateAzure
So I switched my tuning around, so the big knob acts as fine tune. The closest I can get to centre is either +2.3 or -2.6 no matter how careful I am. Does that just suggest it's in need of calibration? but as I said hard to calibrate when you can't get the centre.
tommygee
My MK3 should arrive this week Rockin' Banana! Looking forward to comparing it with my MK2-
mt3
Flamusic wrote:
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
mt3 wrote:
Flamusic wrote:
I noticed that my PHmk 3 have a little jump in tuning.
When i send the lowest note from my sequencer 0V and tune the PH to it(so that the screen tuner is in the middle)
and then send a higher pitch cv all higher notes are about 30 cents off.
So there is a jump from the lowest note to the next. Then the notes will stay in tune.
My workaround is to tune it to the second octave root note then all notes are in tune.
But i cant use the lowest octave this way.


It hasn't happened to me. I use Argos Bleak and Stillson, so I'm unfamiliar with other tuners/systems.

Have you tuned it according to the manual?
1. Prepare two control voltages measuring exactly 1V and 7V. Select a single oscillator so you can see the frequency and tuning controls on the display.
2. Turn the coarse tune on that oscillator to the minimum position, and turn the fine tune control to center position.
3. Insert the 1V voltage into the Tuned CV input (1v/oct), and adjust the oscillator's fine tune until the tuning display is entered on note C1.
4. Replace the 1V input voltage with 7V. Adjust the trimmer on the rear of the module for that oscillator (labeled OSC1SCALE or OSC2SCALE) until the display is centered on note C7.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no further adjustment is needed.


I checked the calibration of the PH and its fine. no matter if send (calibrated)quantized cv from Voltageblock, Varigate or other sources.
When i tune the PH to the lowest note my sequencer can send, all other notes are out of tune. When i tune the PH to a higer note all notes are in tune without the lowest


Have you tried a factory reset to see if that might do the trick?
"To perform a factory reset, make sure that NO patch cables are plugged into the module. Turn the module on while holding the Preset Mode button. The menu settings, CV input calibrations, and preset data will be reset."


I did several factory resets, changed the tuning knob behaviour, tried different cv sources. Its the lowest note wich is always 30 to 40 cents out of tune.


Curious: what is the behaviour of the PHmk3 when there is nothing plugged into it's 1V/Oct?
Can you manually dial in C0 so it is centered (to roughly 16Hz)?
synonymist
lordymosh wrote:
What do you guys plug into the external input? I tried a few things like sine wave, samples etc. but it doesn't sound good at all while messing with the wave table.


Hello. A delayed reaction:

Simple waveforms work well for me. Piston Honda Mark III is a deep module used with external FM.

Here I am using each side of Twin Waves to modulate each respective side of Piston Honda:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/the-builder
Pighood
IS THAT EVEN LEGAL fap fap fap...
synonymist
Pighood wrote:
IS THAT EVEN LEGAL


Hahahaha!

In some parts of the world it is. Check your local laws for details. Mr. Green

Edit: Thank you!
Pighood
I have a TwinWave too...were you using LFO's or VCO's to modulate?
synonymist
Pighood wrote:
I have a TwinWave too...were you using LFO's or VCO's to modulate?


Cool. Twin Waves is a fantastic module.

That was VCOs into Piston Honda's ext. FM inputs, and LFOs into its X, Y, and Z CV inputs.
Pighood
That would be a class B misdemeanor 'round these parts. fap fap fap...

But the only other twinnie I have is a Kermit. Perhaps I could......... fap fap fap...
synonymist
Pighood wrote:
That would be a class B misdemeanor 'round these parts.

But the only other twinnie I have is a Kermit. Perhaps I could.........


Hmm. If you mean that you don't have a Piston Honda, but would like to set up 'per VCO' FM with a digital twin oscillator, then maybe your Twin Waves should be the carriers:

Twin Waves lets you surf its oscillator algorithms with CV, which sounds sort of wavetable-like. I'm not sure, but you might be able to FM it in that mode.

Also FM-ing its AE, AO, or AA algorithms while CV-ing their harmonics parameter could get you in that territory.
Pighood
I have an E-352, E-350, Sheep (Tides), Braids, and Plaits, so my wavetable bases are pretty well covered.

It's so cool to have such a 1-to-1 synergy of two twinnies together though.
synonymist
Pighood wrote:
I have an E-352, E-350, Sheep (Tides), Braids, and Plaits, so my wavetable bases are pretty well covered.

It's so cool to have such a 1-to-1 synergy of two twinnies together though.


Oh, I see. Yeah, gotcha. I must admit that when I realized I could use those two modules together in that way, it felt like it was meant to be. hihi
mt3
synonymist wrote:
Here I am using each side of Twin Waves to modulate each respective side of Piston Honda:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/the-builder


That's disgusting.
w00t
synonymist
mt3 wrote:
synonymist wrote:
Here I am using each side of Twin Waves to modulate each respective side of Piston Honda:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/the-builder


That's disgusting.
w00t


Hahaha! Thank you. I know I was disgusted when I first heard it.

Glad to oblige. Mr. Green
tommygee
Spend the weekend with my new PH MK3, and was able to compare it side by side with the PH MK2. The new version does sounds more hi-fi like others have mentioned. More clear high end, but also a bigger overall sound. I always loved using the MK2 version for more mellow, melodic stuff with some of the top end filtered off. The MK3 doesn't disappoint here - it's awesome.

One question: when I trigger the random function with a gate, and have selected "waves only", unison modes gets randomized as well. Is there a way to avoid that ?
hawkfuzz
Is it incorrect to think this replaced the HDmk2 sans wavefolding?
Sinamsis
hawkfuzz wrote:
Is it incorrect to think this replaced the HDmk2 sans wavefolding?


I'd say only in the sense that it's a dual oscillator. PH mk III only has one output per oscillator and lacks the central output. It can do a lot more in some ways, but less in others. I think the lack of wavefolding is a big deal. And similar to other 259 inspire complex oscillators, the HD has the prerouted FM options, whereas the PH only has normalized inter oscillator FM. Anything else would have to be patched externally. Might I add the way it's implemented in the HD is very easy to activate or deactivate these modulation destinations (it's actually similar to what Instruo has implemented more recently on the CsL, though IMO with better visual feedback). The further I dive into the orange rabbit hole, the more I realize that no module replaces another; they just augment the greater orange ecosystem. That said, I really do prefer the design aesthetic started with the mk II modules that relies more heavily on sliders than all pots. There certainly are mk I modules I still lust after, however.
mt3
tommygee wrote:
One question: when I trigger the random function with a gate, and have selected "waves only", unison modes gets randomized as well. Is there a way to avoid that ?


Doesn't look like there is an option to disable randomizing Unison or to disable which axes are Morph Enabled.
Might want to send that in as a feature request.
mt3
hawkfuzz wrote:
Is it incorrect to think this replaced the HDmk2 sans wavefolding?


Not incorrect, maybe closer to "inaccurate"? Somewhere in between the two extremes.
HDmk2 has more explicit symbiosis (e.g., the modulation bus) between its two oscillators compared to the PHmk3, thus making it MUCH more ideal for FM (and related) synthesis.

HDmk2 - think of both oscillators as highly coupled to compose ONE oscillation.
PHmk3 - think of both oscillators as mildly coupled to compose TWO distinct oscillations with minor facilities for composing ONE oscillation (e.g., LINK mode).
Funky40
Great input in this Thread ! very welcome
........damn my GAS, though lol
dooj88
Funky40 wrote:
Great input in this Thread ! very welcome
........damn my GAS, though lol


you said it. i got my eyeballs all over this thread and it's making me lusty eyes...
mt3
mt3 wrote:
hawkfuzz wrote:
Is it incorrect to think this replaced the HDmk2 sans wavefolding?


Not incorrect, maybe closer to "inaccurate"? Somewhere in between the two extremes.
HDmk2 has more explicit symbiosis (e.g., the modulation bus) between its two oscillators compared to the PHmk3, thus making it MUCH more ideal for FM (and related) synthesis.

HDmk2 - think of both oscillators as highly coupled to compose ONE oscillation.
PHmk3 - think of both oscillators as mildly coupled to compose TWO distinct oscillations with minor facilities for composing ONE oscillation (e.g., LINK mode).


Most importantly (and I can't believe I forgot...), the PHmk3 can process external inputs (stereo style using link mode, or dual mono unlinked) for waveshaping/wavefolding.
fap fap fap... Cat Girl Synth The Harvestman twisted
Crimesofthecrown
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt
sharkminusbear
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt


Yea that sounded like the part of a survival horror game where the monster is chasing you down a dark hallway. screaming goo yo
synonymist
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt


Now that's what I'm talkin' about.

Very nice. thumbs up
skitzo
I'm new-ish to modular, and don't really get what this module is useful for. My GAS makes me want one because it looks so nifty, but I can't figure out how I would incorporate it :( I haven't see a good tutorial yet that is beyond "listen to that gritty noise".
synonymist
.
Nightly Closures
This (like all his videos) is an excellent demo for the module.
https://youtu.be/OjmOKbBvuFQ
thetwlo
where is the manual for these?
the MK1 PH manual "coming soon" and then was removed, and then all specs and info were removed from the site. Is this "anti-Support" to fuck early buyers/supporters?
No archives of discontinued products. ??? Specs, manuals?
No support for them?
sharkminusbear
thetwlo wrote:
where is the manual for these?
the MK1 PH manual "coming soon" and then was removed, and then all specs and info were removed from the site. Is this "anti-Support" to fuck early buyers/supporters?
No archives of discontinued products. ??? Specs, manuals?
No support for them?


Not sure what you mean, manual was up last year around when it was released. http://www.industrialmusicelectronics.com/products/21 On the manuals tab.

Edit: misread and didnt realize you were specifically looking for the discontinued MK1. You should be able to get info by contacting them directly.
Sinamsis
Ha that’s pretty dramatic. Did you try contacting IME directly? I’m sure Scott would be happy to send you a copy. IIRC early documentation was relatively scarce compared to documentation of newer modules. Honestly I’ve never heard anyone complain about support from Harvestman/IME. Response can be a little slow because it’s a small company. But Scott has always taken care of me, and I’ve heard the same from many other folks.
loopt
Sinamsis wrote:
Ha that’s pretty dramatic.

But he is right nonetheless.
There never was a manual for the PH MK1 and the manual for the Hertz Donut MK1 cannot be found on the IME site.
A little page for legacy products would be an easy thing to do.

BTW., the closest thing to a manual for the PH MK1 may be this.
Leverkusen
thetwlo wrote:
where is the manual for these?
Is this "anti-Support" to fuck early buyers/supporters?


As an early buyer/supporter how did you get over the last seven years without an manual?

Anyway, why not just ask for help here before ranting? Maybe someone can help you out with the information you are looking for. After all the PH MKI does not seem to complicated to me, so what is it that you need to know after all these years?
loopt
Oh come on!
Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm sure Scott can deal with it.
And I'm also sure thetwlo loves the modules in question.
mt3
Harvestman subforum is the best place to ask about the PHmkI and other legacy products. There are folks there that can assist.

This thread is on the PHmkIII. Concerns about the manuals for mk I modules have no bearing or similarity to manuals for mk III modules.
thetwlo
Thanks all, I got it sorted.
Was just frustrated trying to find something that should be easy to find--so, I thought.
I love all the Harvestman stuff, of course a full/true manual isn't required, just a list of functions, and hidden functions not on the panel.

wong thread! sorry, but I do love the mk.III as well. SlayerBadger!
mt3
thetwlo wrote:
Thanks all, I got it sorted.
Was just frustrated trying to find something that should be easy to find--so, I thought.
I love all the Harvestman stuff, of course a full/true manual isn't required, just a list of functions, and hidden functions not on the panel.

wong thread! sorry, but I do love the mk.III as well. SlayerBadger!


No worries. I just wanted to clarify the "reason" there were no manuals made for the mk I (and some mk II) modules and point out the absence of documentation was a conscious design decision ("aesthetic").

Shockingly there's also "official" videos from Harvestman/IME.
The times they are a modulatin'...

thetwlo
mt3 wrote:

No worries. I just wanted to clarify the "reason" there were no manuals made for the mk I


There were manuals for some of them, I got my Malg in 2007 and it had an excellent manual, as does the Hertz Donut mk.I I've had since 2008, but all that's been removed from the site, so it's a bit of work to find those via Archive.org.

It's just weird, that all the info on older products was removed from the site, it would be a great resource.

Thanks for your help!
Kummer
after listening to a few demos, I do love the grit in the audio quality that their modules have
mt3
Kummer wrote:
after listening to a few demos, I do love the grit in the audio quality that their modules have


Heretic!
Cat Girl Synth Agony! Dead Banana
xthrasherx
I thought the PHIII was pretty hi-fi sounding, so I have a PHII on the way to help fix that Mr. Green

Or maybe I’ve been stuck in my fairly distorted lo-fi loop for a while and the PHIII is just relatively cleaner comparatively. hmmm.....

Either way it is great
Kummer
mt3 wrote:
Kummer wrote:
after listening to a few demos, I do love the grit in the audio quality that their modules have


Heretic!
Cat Girl Synth Agony! Dead Banana


w00t
Kummer
xthrasherx wrote:
I thought the PHIII was pretty hi-fi sounding, so I have a PHII on the way to help fix that Mr. Green

Or maybe I’ve been stuck in my fairly distorted lo-fi loop for a while and the PHIII is just relatively cleaner comparatively. hmmm.....

Either way it is great


There is still a "something" there, a little bit of color that sounds fantastic.
synonymist
Kummer wrote:
xthrasherx wrote:
I thought the PHIII was pretty hi-fi sounding, so I have a PHII on the way to help fix that Mr. Green

Or maybe I’ve been stuck in my fairly distorted lo-fi loop for a while and the PHIII is just relatively cleaner comparatively. hmmm.....

Either way it is great


There is still a "something" there, a little bit of color that sounds fantastic.


Hello. I never played any Harvestman/IME module before getting my Piston Honda Mark III. In its user manual is

"TONE
The tone menu offers several different types of subtle distortion to be applied. It is most audible with sinusoidal or additive waveforms at low frequencies, where you may hear quiet foldover of high frequency aliases of the distortion products. The “Orthodox” setting is not distorted and presents the full resolution of the 16 bit waveform set. The other settings introduce different flavors of quantization noise, enjoyable by enthusiasts of previous generations of the Piston Honda. To best hear the effects of the different tone selections, select a sine wave (X Y and Z set to 1 with the default factory waveforms) , set the oscillator to a low frequency, and listen to the different Tone options while moving the tune controls."

Before I run out and get a Mark II to quell my curiosity, a question, please. To anyone who is very familiar with the sound of the Mark II, and has played the Mark III with its TONE set to values other than "Orthodox":

Can you hear a difference or similarity between the Piston Honda Mark II and the non-Orthodox TONE-enabled Piston Honda Mark III?
sharkminusbear
I’m interested to hear how people are using the tone settings too. I’ve only messed with them briefly and wasn’t getting anything that sounded too different. I missed the part about trying it on the low frequencies though, will have to check that out.
tommygee
"Can you hear a difference or similarity between the Piston Honda Mark II and the non-Orthodox TONE-enabled Piston Honda Mark III?"

Not really to be honest.
synonymist
tommygee wrote:
"Can you hear a difference or similarity between the Piston Honda Mark II and the non-Orthodox TONE-enabled Piston Honda Mark III?"

Not really to be honest.


Thank you, Tommy. To confirm: they sound neither different nor similar?
xthrasherx
I have both the mkII and mkIII in my rack now, so I’ll have to test it out properly. They sounded different to me overall, but that was my initial impression with a quick test patch to make sure everything was working as it should. I didn’t mess around with any settings or tried to match voices precisely, so take that with a massive rock of salt. I’ll try to post a proper A/B test later today.
synonymist
xthrasherx wrote:
I have both the mkII and mkIII in my rack now, so I’ll have to test it out properly. They sounded different to me overall, but that was my initial impression with a quick test patch to make sure everything was working as it should. I didn’t mess around with any settings or tried to match voices precisely, so take that with a massive rock of salt. I’ll try to post a proper A/B test later today.


Thanks! I look forward to your impressions.
mt3
Please note PHmk2 has 8-bit wavetables and PHmk3 utilizes 16-bit wavetables. There will be inherent differences from the bit depth alone. These differences propagate and are (slightly) minimized by the processing performed by whichever interpolation/morphing doctrine enlisted.

If you do the math you can understand why PHmk2 has 16 wavetable banks while PHmk3 has 8 wavetable banks (exactly half).
It is left to the reader to show the same result holds for PHmk3's X and Y axes containing half the number of waveforms as PHmk2.

I have a "fidelity comparison" (if interested) between the two modules scanning through the exact same waveform bank, but with interpolation/morphing disabled.
Just holler back.
synonymist
mt3 wrote:
Please note PHmk2 has 8-bit wavetables and PHmk3 utilizes 16-bit wavetables. There will be inherent differences from the bit depth alone. These differences propagate and are (slightly) minimized by the processing performed by whichever interpolation doctrine enlisted.

If you do the math you can understand why PHmk2 has 16 wavetable banks while PHmk3 has 8 wavetable banks (exactly half).
It is left to the reader to show the same result holds for PHmk3's X and Y axes containing half the number of waveforms as PHmk2.

I have a "fidelity comparison" (if interested) between the two modules scanning through the exact same waveform bank, but with interpolation disabled.
Just holler back.


Excellent. Thank you very much for that explanation/reminder. And now:

AAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!!!


^ Hollering back. Mr. Green

If you would please point us to your fidelity comparison, I for one will appreciate it.

Meanwhile, frittering my day away in front of a warm synthesizer case today (which was not the plan), nonetheless I did go deeper into Piston Honda Mark III. Though with no precedent for firsthand comparison, I did try the various values in the TONE setting. Very nice. I found that it made a noticeably useful difference sometimes, and was worth tweaking periodically.

Also I tried the OCTAVE setting. Used judiciously, it was super. smile Deep module! It offers so many avenues for sound design; especially with dynamic CV.

Today's Piston Honda-centric session ranged from industrial and doomy to who knows what. These were the result. Session notes are at each track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/parallax-and-second

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/parallax-and-third
mt3
An interpolation demo from Harvestman when the Piston Honda mk II originally came out:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/harvestman/piston-honda-mk-3-dimensional[/s]

And another by Unease:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/unease-1/piston-honda-mkii[/s]
synonymist
mt3 wrote:
An interpolation demo from Harvestman when the Piston Honda mk II originally came out:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/harvestman/piston-honda-mk-3-dimensional[/s]

And another by Unease:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/unease-1/piston-honda-mkii[/s]


Much appreciated. That was very helpful.

Comparing those to the following and my short time with my Mark III, my impression was of Mark II being much grittier sounding that Mark III. By comparison to the jagged edges of the Mark II voice, the Mark III voice is silky and (I am inclined to say) more nuanced. I don't prefer either, and I think that neither is a replacement for the other.

https://soundcloud.com/industrialmusicelectronics/piston-honda-mk3-dro ne-test

Trying to buy a Piston Honda Mark II now...
xthrasherx
synonymist wrote:


Trying to buy a Piston Honda Mark II now...


This is the correct answer Om

Very happy with the mkII and mkIII. Lots of fun to be had
Sinamsis
xthrasherx wrote:
synonymist wrote:


Trying to buy a Piston Honda Mark II now...


This is the correct answer Om

Very happy with the mkII and mkIII. Lots of fun to be had


Me too. I regret selling my mk I. They're all different and great.
xthrasherx
I wish I had room for all 3... barely have room for the 2 PH and the mkI Hertz Donut. The joys of constraint.
synonymist
xthrasherx wrote:

Sinamsis wrote:
xthrasherx wrote:
synonymist wrote:


Trying to buy a Piston Honda Mark II now...

This is the correct answer Om

Very happy with the mkII and mkIII. Lots of fun to be had

Me too. I regret selling my mk I. They're all different and great.

I wish I had room for all 3... barely have room for the 2 PH and the mkI Hertz Donut. The joys of constraint.


Ha! Well I did make a deal. If it goes well, I should have a NOS Pinston Honda Mark II in hand in about two weeks.

That will give me time to decide whether I can bear to cut more from my cases to accommodate it, or will alternate the Mark III and Mark II in the same spot. neutral
xthrasherx
synonymist wrote:
xthrasherx wrote:

Sinamsis wrote:
xthrasherx wrote:
synonymist wrote:


Trying to buy a Piston Honda Mark II now...

This is the correct answer Om

Very happy with the mkII and mkIII. Lots of fun to be had

Me too. I regret selling my mk I. They're all different and great.

I wish I had room for all 3... barely have room for the 2 PH and the mkI Hertz Donut. The joys of constraint.


Ha! Well I did make a deal. If it goes well, I should have a NOS Pinston Honda Mark II in hand in about two weeks.

That will give me time to decide whether I can bear to cut more from my cases to accommodate it, or will alternate the Mark III and Mark II in the same spot. neutral


The PHII has an LFO mode plus the ability for either of them to process the other makes for a lot of possibilities beyond being another voice in your system. Check out this video if you haven’t already. The PHII is used to modulate the PHIII a lot in that video.

synonymist
xthrasherx wrote:
synonymist wrote:

...If it goes well, I should have a NOS Pinston Honda Mark II in hand in about two weeks.

That will give me time to decide whether I can bear to cut more from my cases to accommodate it, or will alternate the Mark III and Mark II in the same spot. neutral


The PHII has an LFO mode plus the ability for either of them to process the other makes for a lot of possibilities beyond being another voice in your system. Check out this video if you haven’t already. The PHII is used to modulate the PHIII a lot in that video.



Thank you for that. I had not seen it before.

The fact is that the ratio of primary sound sources to other stuff (CV or audio manipulation or routing, etc.) is still too high in my modular synth. Partly that's because I want the sheer sonic variety, not simultaneity. But I am at the practical limit of that approach, given my space constraints.

That said, the prospect of using Piston Honda III and II together is enticing. So I will see what I can do. smile
Switchzik
Hi all,

I'm ready diging the sounds of the TZFM on the rubicon 2 in this video.

https://youtu.be/BwxSuhqsrEE?t=594

Can the PH mkIII sound similar ?

I tried with my just friends which has also a digital TZFM but so far I couldn't manage to get so soft and more woody sound - Everything sounded nice but more harsh and metalic.
synonymist
Switchzik wrote:
Hi all,

I'm ready diging the sounds of the TZFM on the rubicon 2 in this video.

https://youtu.be/BwxSuhqsrEE?t=594

Can the PH mkIII sound the similar ?

I tried with my just friends which had also a digital TZFM but so far I couldn't manage to get so soft and more woody sound - Everything sounded nice but more harsh and metalic.


Hello. Although I did not listen to the video you cited, I do own both modules. In my experience of them, the Rubicon 2 and the Piston Honda Mark III have TZFM in common, but sonically are otherwise fundamentally different oscillators.

The Rubicon 2 is a single analog thru-zero oscillator. The Piston Honda Mark III is a dual wavetable oscillator. If I knew only that about them, I would expect nearly everything about their respective voices to differ, including their TZFM sounds.

As for metallic sounds, the Rubicon 2 does them beautifully. To make hi-hat and metallics sounds, especially very fine and tiny ones, I like to use the Black Wavetable VCO as the modulator for the Rubicon 2 TZFM.

I make a distinction between "harsh" and "metallic". You were referring to the character of the sound, not to a class of timbres, I understand. But in my descriptors for sonic character, the two are not always coincident. For example, the metallics (class) sounds I make with Rubicon 2 are sweet (character) sounding.

Conversely, in my short time with Piston Honda Mark III so far, I find it apt to make timbres of any type that are harsh sounding. Yet it has a nice range between sweet and harsh, including its TZFM.
autopoiesis
Switchzik wrote:
Hi all,

I'm ready diging the sounds of the TZFM on the rubicon 2 in this video.

https://youtu.be/BwxSuhqsrEE?t=594

Can the PH mkIII sound the similar ?

I tried with my just friends which had also a digital TZFM but so far I couldn't manage to get so soft and more woody sound - Everything sounded nice but more harsh and metalic.


you can get to similar territory, especially since you're able to use more complex sinusoid waveforms for either of the FM operators on the PHMK3, but FM on digital oscillators will always have a bit less liveliness to it than with analog oscillators. and i've found that somehow the PHMK3 doesn't support as much audibly deep TZFM as i have gotten out of my shapeshifter or heard from a rubicon when pushing hard on all their FM indices.

in short the FM on the piston honda is a wonderful tone shaping feature but i wouldn't try to lean on this for scratching an itch you have from rubicon demos.
synonymist
autopoiesis wrote:
Switchzik wrote:
Hi all,

I'm ready diging the sounds of the TZFM on the rubicon 2 in this video.

https://youtu.be/BwxSuhqsrEE?t=594

Can the PH mkIII sound the similar ?

I tried with my just friends which had also a digital TZFM but so far I couldn't manage to get so soft and more woody sound - Everything sounded nice but more harsh and metalic.


you can get to similar territory, especially since you're able to use more complex sinusoid waveforms for either of the FM operators on the PHMK3, but FM on digital oscillators will always have a bit less liveliness to it than with analog oscillators. and i've found that somehow the PHMK3 doesn't support as much audibly deep TZFM as i have gotten out of my shapeshifter or heard from a rubicon when pushing hard on all their FM indices.

in short the FM on the piston honda is a wonderful tone shaping feature but i wouldn't try to lean on this for scratching an itch you have from rubicon demos.


Hello. Well said. This is the correct answer. Thank you!
Switchzik
Thanks autopoiesis and synonymist for your answers.
I don't have enough space left in my rack for Rubicon amd PHIII, I was thinking about a PHIII and Dixie2+ combo but those Rubicon's tones are so delicious eek!
synonymist
synonymist wrote:
...the prospect of using Piston Honda III and II together is enticing. So I will see what I can do. smile


Well I did get that done, though each is in a different case. I have yet to play them together. Something to look forward to. cool

Meanwhile, Piston Honda Mark III is making fantastic sounds with Tš-L. Here they are with nearly all their jacks in use, in a tangle with Kinks and Black Joystick Controller.

Except for Filter 8's percolating, sometimes squinchy percussion in the center (which the other modules also influence), PH III and Tš-L are making all sounds. Some of what sounds like spatial processing is actually PH III. Session notes are at each track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/tau-cetian-song

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/tau-cetian-dance
Stashy
MK3 paired with Zadar is always the right move.
dooj88
there are some amazingly cool and fucked up sounds in this thread. much higher concentration awesome than other wavetable oscillator threads. so this is where all the weirdos hang out eh? we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
rosten
Hopefully this is the right place to ask this somewhat dumb question.

The PHIII is my first wavetable synth. I'm loving it so far (and honestly have spent as much time using it as a waveshaper as I have using it for the wavetables).

I don't really understand how it differs from other wavetable synths or what would make it sound "more aggressive"?

If you loaded the same waves into this and a Synthesis Technology wavetable machine would they sound different? Is it the cross-modding or something about the wave is read out or converted to audio signal. Educate me!
sharkminusbear
Stashy wrote:
MK3 paired with Zadar is always the right move.


That's been my experience as well, some really cool rhythmic shapes to modulate the wavetables.
tommygee
tommygee wrote:
Spend the weekend with my new PH MK3, and was able to compare it side by side with the PH MK2. The new version does sounds more hi-fi like others have mentioned. More clear high end, but also a bigger overall sound. I always loved using the MK2 version for more mellow, melodic stuff with some of the top end filtered off. The MK3 doesn't disappoint here - it's awesome.

One question: when I trigger the random function with a gate, and have selected "waves only", unison modes gets randomized as well. Is there a way to avoid that ?


After spending some time with the MK3 I have to admit, that I miss the character of the MK2 - and regret I let it go.
synonymist
rosten wrote:
Hopefully this is the right place to ask this somewhat dumb question.

The PHIII is my first wavetable synth. I'm loving it so far (and honestly have spent as much time using it as a waveshaper as I have using it for the wavetables).

I don't really understand how it differs from other wavetable synths or what would make it sound "more aggressive"?

If you loaded the same waves into this and a Synthesis Technology wavetable machine would they sound different? Is it the cross-modding or something about the wave is read out or converted to audio signal. Educate me!


Hello. At least part of the answer is in @mt3's recent explanation to me:

mt3 wrote:
Please note PHmk2 has 8-bit wavetables and PHmk3 utilizes 16-bit wavetables. There will be inherent differences from the bit depth alone.


Compare that to Synthesis Technology's description of its E352 Cloud Terrarium (http://synthtech.com/eurorack/E352/):

"16-bit wavetables (versus 8-bit for the E350) for 5x lower noise & THD"

Generalizing, then: As these module designers gradually walk their circuit designs down the path of technical refinement, in successive generations of the circuits, the audio made by the latest generation is to a meaningful degree measurably and possibly audibly different from the prior ones.

As such, the question would be not about 'if the same wavetables were loaded in IME and Syntech modules', but 'if the same wavetables were loaded in IME and Synthech modules of the same technological generation'.

Then in practical terms, and as always, there is a difference if the player hears a difference. smile
xthrasherx
Forgot to post this here, but the Piston Honda has really become the heart of my system. Here both the MKII and MKIII are being used as waveshapers.

The PH mkIII is being used on a guitar track which was then split and then fed into a Metasonix R56 reverb and a Metasonix R57 & Casper Electronics / Bastl Dark Matter.

The PH mkII was also used as a waveshaper. It was fed a signal from the Zerosum Inertia Noise Sorcerer (a thyratron based sound source). This was brought into the mix by a looping envelope with no specific tempo / timing.

Tracked and filmed live after a couple of practice takes to work our general ideas.

synonymist
Here is a simple piece that features Piston Honda Mark III making fairly conventional sounds. I like them!

PH III does the melody and bass voices, which open the piece.

The melody here is an example of PH III's expressiveness under a combination of automated and manual CV. Each kind of source affects the sound's timbral and temporal aspects both.

The nice, fat bass here shows that a little time spent patching an external FM source with PH III (for example the classic modulator via VCA/EG to carrier FM in) is well rewarded.

Detailed session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/jaunty-like-giant
synonymist
xthrasherx wrote:
Forgot to post this here, but the Piston Honda has really become the heart of my system. Here both the MKII and MKIII are being used as waveshapers.

The PH mkIII is being used on a guitar track which was then split and then fed into a Metasonix R56 reverb and a Metasonix R57 & Casper Electronics / Bastl Dark Matter.

The PH mkII was also used as a waveshaper. It was fed a signal from the Zerosum Inertia Noise Sorcerer (a thyratron based sound source). This was brought into the mix by a looping envelope with no specific tempo / timing.

Tracked and filmed live after a couple of practice takes to work our general ideas.



Lovely! My only wish was that it didn't end suddenly. I wanted to hear a long fadeout. Mr. Green

Your example is a good reminder for me. Thank you. A longtime bass guitarist, when I got into Eurorack last January, I meant to merge my bass and synth work anew in this context (I did so at various times in many years past, but with different kinds of synths). From waveshapers like Piston Honda, to filters, to samplers like Morphagene, there is a lot to do.
xthrasherx
synonymist wrote:

Lovely! My only wish was that it didn't end suddenly. I wanted to hear a long fadeout. Mr. Green

Your example is a good reminder for me. Thank you. A longtime bass guitarist, when I got into Eurorack last January, I meant to merge my bass and synth work anew in this context (I did so at various times in many years past, but with different kinds of synths). From waveshapers like Piston Honda, to filters, to samplers like Morphagene, there is a lot to do.


Thanks! I was under some constraints with what the other artist wanted so while I agree a nice long fadeout would have been nice, I think was already pushing the desired track length. In context of the album, it should still have that fadeout feel (I left ample tail on there for the video).

I also got into modular synths after years playing both bass and guitar, but admittedly have done very little processing work like this. All my personal work has been synths & modular for percussion and atmosphere paired up with bass and guitar in more traditional signal paths (amp, cab, mic or profiler depending on context).
synonymist
xthrasherx wrote:
synonymist wrote:

Lovely! My only wish was that it didn't end suddenly. I wanted to hear a long fadeout. Mr. Green

Your example is a good reminder for me. Thank you. A longtime bass guitarist, when I got into Eurorack last January, I meant to merge my bass and synth work anew in this context (I did so at various times in many years past, but with different kinds of synths). From waveshapers like Piston Honda, to filters, to samplers like Morphagene, there is a lot to do.


Thanks! I was under some constraints with what the other artist wanted so while I agree a nice long fadeout would have been nice, I think was already pushing the desired track length. In context of the album, it should still have that fadeout feel (I left ample tail on there for the video).

I also got into modular synths after years playing both bass and guitar, but admittedly have done very little processing work like this. All my personal work has been synths & modular for percussion and atmosphere paired up with bass and guitar in more traditional signal paths (amp, cab, mic or profiler depending on context).


My pleasure. Keep going! It's all good, I think; any approach or technique. Good luck with the album. Please let us know when it is released.
synonymist
Just two weeks in, it may be that I have a greater affinity with Piston Honda Mark II, but I'm not certain yet. Meanwhile Mark III continues to impress me with both its sheer power and its ability to be expressive.

Here is Piston Honda Mark III as two parts of a four-part arrangement. The rest is Loquelic Iteratis for the central bass and Tš-L for the pretty ostinato. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/one-fine-day
synonymist
Deeper still. So much sound, faceted and nuanced. A few observations about Piston Honda Mark III as of yesterday:

⦁ Though excellent as both a primary sound source and a waveshaper, I find its strongest suit as a sound maker is with an external modulator for FM. Extreme FM can be nice; but for depth, a small range just above the onset of FM can be the sweet spot.

⦁ There was no more room on the panel, so morph enable was moved to into a menu. That is fair and the feature is usable, but I prefer the Mark II hardware interface.

⦁ The settings in the tone menu can be quite impactful with the right sounds. I find it useful to revisit them occasionally during protracted sound design.


In this short piece, all of the above is represented. PH3 makes the shuddering, warped, glassy drone and the mercurial, squishy bass. Really... it is a deep module. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/rapscallion-returns
synonymist
Scanning this thread now, I see that at least a few people loaded non-stock waveforms into their Piston Honda Mark III. Yesterday I did and it was easy. Thanks to IME for making this feature so usable.

In three or four loads, I got one error. But I quickly concluded that I had not written the wave files on the SD card properly, corrected that and got no more errors.

I used whatever banks were made publicly available in WaveEdit. Since I did not make a note of which I chose, I have no attribution; but I thank the people who created or curated and published the banks. One I used was PPG waves, I think, but the rest definitely were homemade.

After my first tries at assembling a wavetable, I learned that I really want the first waveform in the first bank to be a sine wave. smile Each of my wavetable oscillator modules features this, so I guess it is a best practice.

Also I learned that the art is to find a good balance between gradation and discontinuity, both within each bank and across banks within a wavetable. Seeing this, I gained a newfound appreciation of wavetable oscillator designers' decisions about their wavetables. They can't please everyone or account for all scenarios, but they strike a balance and impart a personality to their module.

For my PH3, I settled on a set of waveforms that is less edgy than the stock set, but is similarly flexible and expressive. Eventually I will try other sonic directions. Meanwhile I remain highly impressed with PH3 as an instrument: mature, multifarious, flexible, beautiful, deep.

Here are two tracks based on one patch featuring PH3 loaded with non-stock waveforms. Slightly modulated by Tš-L, Piston Honda Mark III makes all the sound except the subdued bass voice (just left of center) which is Tš-L.

The first track is short. The second is long. Best for the patient or curious, it will reward with nice details. Session notes are at each track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/thin-in-the-thicket-prelude

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/thin-in-the-thicket
teamhobson
Does anyone know when the PHIII will be available for purchase again in UK stores? All retailers seem to be out.
droningspaghettimonster
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt


Holy shit. Is this factory waves???
Crimesofthecrown
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt


Holy shit. Is this factory waves???


Yes it is... Mr. Green
droningspaghettimonster
absolutely stunning. cool

i've always regretted letting my loquelic iteritas go and i was planing on getting the updated version sooner than later, but this demo could have made me think otherwise.... those timbres are amazing! do you have more demos that show the harsh / cold side of the module?
Crimesofthecrown
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
absolutely stunning. cool

i've always regretted letting my loquelic iteritas go and i was planing on getting the updated version sooner than later, but this demo could have made me think otherwise.... those timbres are amazing! do you have more demos that show the harsh / cold side of the module?


Sadly I currently do not. Once I get settled eventually I want to start doing this however, I feel there could be more and better documentation of using eurorack in aggressive non conventional ways.
xthrasherx
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
absolutely stunning. cool

i've always regretted letting my loquelic iteritas go and i was planing on getting the updated version sooner than later, but this demo could have made me think otherwise.... those timbres are amazing! do you have more demos that show the harsh / cold side of the module?


Is there something in particular you are wanting to hear? I sold my LI for the PHIII when it came out and have not had any regrets. the LI is a great oscillator and was my favorite for a long while... until I got the PHIII anyway.
droningspaghettimonster
hello!

well, the LI really shines in the cold / harsh department, but those timbres in Crimesofthecrowns demo are just exactly what I miss from my LI, but prepared in very beautiful way. I'm particularly interested in hearing how the CV inputs respond to audio rate modulation, both from synced and unsycned VCOs. Anything "harsh" really. hihi

edit:

I recall LI being very sensitive to modulation, and just a little could make the sound very "lively" in a unpleasant way, so the sweetspot was kind of all over the place, and some "inbetween" timbres could appear with just a single LFO without proper attenuation. Once the sweetspots were found the LI was absolutely stunning though. Does this ring any bells, and how do you think the PHIII behaves under heavy modulation? Since the wavetables can vary a bit, I guess the modulation might need to be attenuated rather precisely as well, right?
xthrasherx
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
hello!

well, the LI really shines in the cold / harsh department, but those timbres in Crimesofthecrowns demo are just exactly what I miss from my LI, but prepared in very beautiful way. I'm particularly interested in hearing how the CV inputs respond to audio rate modulation, both from synced and unsycned VCOs. Anything "harsh" really. hihi

edit:

I recall LI being very sensitive to modulation, and just a little could make the sound very "lively" in a unpleasant way, so the sweetspot was kind of all over the place, and some "inbetween" timbres could appear with just a single LFO without proper attenuation. Once the sweetspots were found the LI was absolutely stunning though. Does this ring any bells, and how do you think the PHIII behaves under heavy modulation? Since the wavetables can vary a bit, I guess the modulation might need to be attenuated rather precisely as well, right?


One of the great design benefits of IME / Harvestman modules are the built in attenuverters on the various CV inputs. It really frees up your system quite a bit. At this point my main case is is predominately Harvestman modules as sound sources.

I'll try post something with the PHIII by itself doing some harshness (I tend to like doing that anyway). Personally I like using the PHIII for drones and using a modulation source like the NLC Triple Sloth to slowly morph the waveforms over time, but that's only one approach.
droningspaghettimonster
I'm very interested in a demo, I've watched your videos couple of times and they are a joy to view.

Do you got the Hertz Donut mkiii as well? Just wondering which one exels at "harsh" timbres. I've heard some spectacular demos of that VCO as well, and I really prefer the design to the digital complex VCO designs of the older models (nothing wrong with that of course, but my DPO has that covered).
xthrasherx
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
I'm very interested in a demo, I've watched your videos couple of times and they are a joy to view.

Do you got the Hertz Donut mkiii as well? Just wondering which one exels at "harsh" timbres. I've heard some spectacular demos of that VCO as well, and I really prefer the design to the digital complex VCO designs of the older models (nothing wrong with that of course, but my DPO has that covered).


Thanks! I do have the HDIII as well and it is typically on bass duties in my system. I feel like it is a little easier to dial in some harsher distortion with the HDIII without the aid of anything else based on the fundamental design of it, but they are different beasts with some marginal overlap. I'd have a hard time choosing just one, but the HDIII edges out the PHIII for me at this point but only by a narrow margin. Using the PHIII (or II for that matter) for processing external signals is also quite fun, giving you a pretty wide range of uses.

I'll fire up the "studio" when I get back home and come up with a quick demo. Been a while since I focused on just the PHIII, so it'll be fun.
xthrasherx
Ok, it’s no Robotopsy tutorial or anything, but here’s a quick and dirty video demo trying to focus on some of the harsher sides of the PHIII.

Other modules used:
Double Andore mkI (as LFO and EG/VCA)
Piston Honda mkII (as LFO)
Hertz Donut mkI (as LFO)
Zorlon Cannon mkII (percussions in final jam)
Voltage Block (as XYZ wavetable Position cv in final jam)

I tried to keep ancillary modules to a minimum, so no filters, no extra distortion courtesy of some more character modules, and the only post processing was running a limiter over the master.

Pighood
DISGUSTITATING!!!! love
droningspaghettimonster
Thank you for the demo, it really is lovely! Really goes into the NE territory it seems!
synonymist
Sorry to interrupt the harshness. sad banana This example is hard in the other direction.

It is a horn sound made with Piston Honda Mark III with custom waveforms. To me it sounds like a flugelhorn. I love it.

There is a little shaping of timbre by an A-120 filter; but the main character of the sound is from PHIII. Also, thanks to the Piqued app in Ornament and Crime for fantastic amplitude dynamics.

The sections of this piece are basically calm/crazy/calm, reflective of changes to MODE in Just Friends. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus


P.S. - Since newly I am displeased with SoundCloud: until I find an alternative, my tracks there will be few and short-lived.
sharkminusbear
synonymist wrote:
Sorry to interrupt the harshness. sad banana This example is hard in the other direction.

It is a horn sound made with Piston Honda Mark III with custom waveforms. To me it sounds like a flugelhorn. I love it.

There is a little shaping of timbre by an A-120 filter; but the main character of the sound is from PHIII. Also, thanks to the Piqued app in Ornament and Crime for fantastic amplitude dynamics.

The sections of this piece are basically calm/crazy/calm, reflective of changes to MODE in Just Friends. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus


P.S. - Since newly I am displeased with SoundCloud: until I find an alternative, my tracks there will be few and short-lived.


Those horn sounds are crazy! Did you basically use a filter with the waveform to get the right timbre or did you put an envelope on the wavetable cv?
Leverkusen
sharkminusbear wrote:
synonymist wrote:
Sorry to interrupt the harshness. sad banana This example is hard in the other direction.

It is a horn sound made with Piston Honda Mark III with custom waveforms. To me it sounds like a flugelhorn. I love it.

There is a little shaping of timbre by an A-120 filter; but the main character of the sound is from PHIII. Also, thanks to the Piqued app in Ornament and Crime for fantastic amplitude dynamics.

The sections of this piece are basically calm/crazy/calm, reflective of changes to MODE in Just Friends. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

http://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus

P.S. - Since newly I am displeased with SoundCloud: until I find an alternative, my tracks there will be few and short-lived.


Those horn sounds are crazy! Did you basically use a filter with the waveform to get the right timbre or did you put an envelope on the wavetable cv?


Nice blowing sound - I like the Stetson vibe of this very much! Which is more of a sax though... applause

[s]http://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus[/s]

[s]http://soundcloud.com/colin-stetson/judges[/s]
synonymist
sharkminusbear wrote:
Those horn sounds are crazy! Did you basically use a filter with the waveform to get the right timbre or did you put an envelope on the wavetable cv?


Belatedly, hello and thanks. Long day still in progress. And then the sad news. sad

Onward we who carry the torch, though dark be the night... neutral

Yes, it is quite a sound. I say that as a listener, not from immodesty as the maker. As I listened to the piece since posting it, I became more convinced of the importance of the envelope generator's control of the VCA in making the sound credibly brass horn-like.

The voice of a physical brass horn instrument tends to feature a strong correlation between timbre and amplitude. Generalizing, that would be soft and muted vs. loud and brassy.

My thinking is that by finessing the o_C Piqued EG, which allows quite a bit of dynamic control, the range of timbre I was mining, soft and muted breaking on the low edge of brassiness, was given a way to be easily perceived as being credible or natural-sounding. Like a horn player thinking and feeling, then reacting to the music in their playing.

"crazy" is the right descriptor, I agree. I wasn't even going for a horn sound, but went where it led, and so was pleasantly surprised.

Full disclosure: I will admit to being guarded about my sound design concepts and techniques. But here is my little gift to the community, in the spirit of goodwill and in appreciation of the knowledge that others share freely here; this in memory of Mike's legacy:

The architecture of this horn sound is, from the bottom up

⦁ Piston Honda Mark III (PHIII) with custom waveforms

⦁ PHIII osc A as carrier, 1V/Oct by René via O/A/x2 for scaling, with each of Y and Z axes modulated by a different LFO (of which at least one had randomness)

⦁ o_C Piqued EG 1 as ADR (I think), triggered by René Gate-Y, and with its attack modulated by an LFO plus Maths SUM out (which was complex)

⦁ PHIII osc B, fixed pitch, as modulator of PHIII osc A, via VCA 1 modulated by o_C Piqued out 1

⦁ PHIII osc A out into A-120 low pass VCF modulated by PHIII osc B via multed VCA 1 modulated by o_C Piqued out 1

⦁ A-120 low pass VCF via VCA 2 modulated by multed o_C Piqued out 1, out to the final audio mixer.

As I wrote that, it described to me a kind of "modulation layer cake", in which the PHIII osc B audio shaped by the EG/VCA drives PHIII osc A for the "low edge of brassiness" effect, and it drives the VCF for (and here is the key to answering your direct question... finally!) subtly shaping the timbre of PHIII osc A with exactly the same contours of its initial FM of PHIII osc A. Likewise, the EG/VCA shapes each stage of the patch, from the initial FM to the final audio out with exactly the same contours. I believe that those two together give the sound a credible similarity to a physical instrument being played by a human.

Whew!
synonymist
Leverkusen wrote:


Nice blowing sound - I like the Stetson vibe of this very much! Which is more of a sax though... applause

[s]http://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus[/s]

[s]http://soundcloud.com/colin-stetson/judges[/s]


Belatedly, thank you for your kind assessment and favorable comparison to Colin Stetson's vibe! My friend introduced me to Stetson's music about eight years ago, but I have scarcely familiarized myself with it since then. Still, I very much admire his work and technique. Guy is a steam train. smile
mt3
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt


Holy shit. Is this factory waves???


Yes it is... Mr. Green


Crimesofthecrown the rest of your tracks are also deadly.
SlayerBadger!
Voggg
I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?
Crimesofthecrown
mt3 wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstaterecordings/god-is-war-let-the-games -begin-excerpt


Holy shit. Is this factory waves???


Yes it is... Mr. Green


Crimesofthecrown the rest of your tracks are also deadly.
SlayerBadger!


Thank you habibi!!!!!! I'm excited as there's some releases already in the works...plus you should hear what I've been recording as of late...
xthrasherx
Voggg wrote:
I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?


This one worked well for me. I had my PHIII on the original firmware for a long time before updating to the current one and didn’t really notice any issues, but now that my system is pretty heavily harvestman based, it was worth grabbing.
mt3
Voggg wrote:
I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?


FYI the PicKit Thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=165472
Voggg
Thanks for the info!
Chartreuse-J
Voggg wrote:
I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?


The Mark 4 Pickit works fine, found mine on Digikey, Amazon also works. Price is in or around that range.
dooj88
Pighood wrote:
DISGUSTITATING!!!! love


this is necessary... this is necessary.. life feeds on life..
jwise
New firmware for the PH3 was released overnight:

http://www.industrialmusicelectronics.com/
Voggg
Nice! I finally had my first successful Harvestman/IME update this week with a new pickit3. Still kind of a wonky process but not nearly as frustrating as my mk2 attempts were.
Cortega
is a Calibration needed after Update ?
mt3
Cortega wrote:
is a Calibration needed after Update ?


No, not required.
mt3
Firmware Update ver. 1.5

Bug fixes:
* Eliminated leading zeroes from frequency display.
* Y axis attenuator properly updates either oscillator selection.

New features:
* Extended frequency resolution. Fine tune is finer, attenuated modulation is more subtle.
* Unison selections now feature fifths (like Hertz Donut).

Download here:
https://ime-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/firmware/firmware/34/pisto nmk3fw15.zip


NOTE
Firmware updates are in the Harvestman subforum:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=216927
If you subscribe to the thread you will automagically be notified of firmware revisions ONLY.
w00t
spinalbeatz
Just picked up the PH and HD not too long ago. Any recommendations on a cheap pickit3?
Voggg
spinalbeatz wrote:
Just picked up the PH and HD not too long ago. Any recommendations on a cheap pickit3?


I got this one and it works just fine. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XDMV5CP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_titl e_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
david_r
I'm using this one just fine:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011BBQQEK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_titl e_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
GhostlyMostly
what size SD card are you using?
any specific sizes and brands working better with it than others?
i am loving mine but really want to create my own waveforms and get back to dubbing with this and the V2
thanks for help in advance
Rasta-nana Om Om Om Rasta-nana
Bigwerm
Does anyone out there have a Piston Honda MK3 with metal shaft pots secured to the faceplate as in the description on the first page of this thread? Mine does not and I was just wondering if any do.
synonymist
Bigwerm wrote:
Does anyone out there have a Piston Honda MK3 with metal shaft pots secured to the faceplate as in the description on the first page of this thread? Mine does not and I was just wondering if any do.


Hello. I just packed up my IME Mark III modules for the night. But on reading your post, I checked the first post in this thread.

Your citation was incomplete, I think, so it could explain you discovering some (I assume) nylon shaft pots on your module. Here is what the first post quoted, exactly:

"The Industrial Music Electronics Mark III series features metal shaft potentiometers secured to the faceplate (on large knob controls)"

Do either of the large knobs on your PH3 operate nylon shaft pots?
Bigwerm
All of the pots on my module are nylon shaft and none of them are secreed to the faceplate.
synonymist
Bigwerm wrote:
All of the pots on my module are nylon shaft and none of them are secreed to the faceplate.


So much for marketing copy, then. neutral

Thanks for confirming. I will check my Mark III modules later, but I expect to find the same.
rosten
I've been using a 16GB micro-SD card. The PH3 just loads the wav files into its internal memory though, so I doubt that the SD card size makes a big difference.
L.C.O.
I have not updated mine to this very recent version, so am not sure if that issue had been addressed, BUT:

The preset saving mechanism is not really doing what I think it is supposed to be doing:

When I save, for example, preset 8 to be my startup/default preset, next power up the unit starts with preset 7 loaded.
When I set preset 7 to be the startup, then when I power up it loads preset 6...
etc.

I think something is messed up in the code.

Anyone else observed that in their modules?
mt3
L.C.O. wrote:
I have not updated mine to this very recent version, so am not sure if that issue had been addressed, BUT:

The preset saving mechanism is not really doing what I think it is supposed to be doing:

When I save, for example, preset 8 to be my startup/default preset, next power up the unit starts with preset 7 loaded.
When I set preset 7 to be the startup, then when I power up it loads preset 6...
etc.

I think something is messed up in the code.

Anyone else observed that in their modules?


I am on ver 1.5 and preset startup works fine.
Which firmware version are you on?

In ver 1.2 this was introduced:
"Startup preset mode changed.
Under the "Startup" item in the global options menu, you may now select "Preset off", "Preset x", or "Morph x" where x is the preset number of 1-8. When the system is restarted, the module will boot into the specified mode with the preset number selected.
Note that if your Preset Knob Mode is set to offset and the physical position of the preset attenuator knob is not zero (or if voltage is present on the Preset CV input), this will affect the selected preset number."
yeatsvisitslincoln
I got a chance to measure the current draw on this since the power specs have never officially been released. That Joranalogue tester is super convenient, for the record...

Power:
+12: 145 mA
-12: 45 mA
+5: 0 mA

I also updated specs on ModularGrid.
L.C.O.
mt3 wrote:
L.C.O. wrote:
I have not updated mine to this very recent version, so am not sure if that issue had been addressed, BUT:

The preset saving mechanism is not really doing what I think it is supposed to be doing:

When I save, for example, preset 8 to be my startup/default preset, next power up the unit starts with preset 7 loaded.
When I set preset 7 to be the startup, then when I power up it loads preset 6...
etc.

I think something is messed up in the code.

Anyone else observed that in their modules?


I am on ver 1.5 and preset startup works fine.
Which firmware version are you on?

In ver 1.2 this was introduced:
"Startup preset mode changed.
Under the "Startup" item in the global options menu, you may now select "Preset off", "Preset x", or "Morph x" where x is the preset number of 1-8. When the system is restarted, the module will boot into the specified mode with the preset number selected.
Note that if your Preset Knob Mode is set to offset and the physical position of the preset attenuator knob is not zero (or if voltage is present on the Preset CV input), this will affect the selected preset number."


Thank you for your comment, and pointers re: attenuator knob.

On startup my unit says firmware 1.2

I read the manual for this module twice, but I did not remember the bit about the position of the attenuator affecting the preset selection. I will have to double-check if this is my issue.

Side note: IF that is the case, I would say that is a weird implementation. I suppose the position of the attenuator should matter if/when the CV is patched in. But if the CV is not patched in, that really should have no effect on the preset selection... especially since there already is a big selection knob that serves that purpose. Otherwise we have two physical knob controls for the same thing?... unless I am missing some obvious logic to this one?
mt3
L.C.O. wrote:
mt3 wrote:
L.C.O. wrote:
I have not updated mine to this very recent version, so am not sure if that issue had been addressed, BUT:

The preset saving mechanism is not really doing what I think it is supposed to be doing:

When I save, for example, preset 8 to be my startup/default preset, next power up the unit starts with preset 7 loaded.
When I set preset 7 to be the startup, then when I power up it loads preset 6...
etc.

I think something is messed up in the code.

Anyone else observed that in their modules?


I am on ver 1.5 and preset startup works fine.
Which firmware version are you on?

In ver 1.2 this was introduced:
"Startup preset mode changed.
Under the "Startup" item in the global options menu, you may now select "Preset off", "Preset x", or "Morph x" where x is the preset number of 1-8. When the system is restarted, the module will boot into the specified mode with the preset number selected.
Note that if your Preset Knob Mode is set to offset and the physical position of the preset attenuator knob is not zero (or if voltage is present on the Preset CV input), this will affect the selected preset number."


Thank you for your comment, and pointers re: attenuator knob.

On startup my unit says firmware 1.2

I read the manual for this module twice, but I did not remember the bit about the position of the attenuator affecting the preset selection. I will have to double-check if this is my issue.

Side note: IF that is the case, I would say that is a weird implementation. I suppose the position of the attenuator should matter if/when the CV is patched in. But if the CV is not patched in, that really should have no effect on the preset selection... especially since there already is a big selection knob that serves that purpose. Otherwise we have two physical knob controls for the same thing?... unless I am missing some obvious logic to this one?


Sorry about that. The most recent version of the manual is up to date for firmware ver. 1.1

This implementation is for when the preset knob is in Offset mode and the physical position of the knob has a visually clear semantic interpretation. It is not an encoder but an attenuator, so this implementation would make the most logical sense (Occam's Razor).

The manual not being kept up to date does not follow Occam's Razor unfortunately.
synonymist
Of those I own, Piston Honda Mark III has become one of my few favorite primary sound sources in eurorack. (Furthrrr Generator and Loquelic Iteritas are the others.) Broad and deep, it is simply a mighty tool for designing sounds for music making.

Here are two pieces from one patch. Except for the drum-like sounds, everything is PH3. Among others, check out the "stuttering voice samples" and "big cat growling" sounds. Crazy. smile Session notes are at each track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/tin-fork-theme-1-of-2

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/tin-fork-theme-2-of-2
autopoiesis
my favorite oscillator, just ahead of the dpo (though they are barely comparable in timbre and features) and shapeshifter. sold my shapeshifter (first and long favorite vco) after getting the mkIII and putting it through its paces. strongly recommend loading in a bank of primarily sinusoidal waveforms - bank A from the e350/352 is great - as the factory set doesn't include too many good sine table progressions, important for exploring its (very good) FM and wavefolding (process a sine or tri wave through a sinusoidal waveform in external input mode)
Sinamsis
autopoiesis wrote:
my favorite oscillator, just ahead of the dpo (though they are barely comparable in timbre and features) and shapeshifter. sold my shapeshifter (first and long favorite vco) after getting the mkIII and putting it through its paces. strongly recommend loading in a bank of primarily sinusoidal waveforms - bank A from the e350/352 is great - as the factory set doesn't include too many good sine table progressions, important for exploring its (very good) FM and wavefolding (process a sine or tri wave through a sinusoidal waveform in external input mode)


That's a really good idea, Im going to have to try this.
synonymist
Sinamsis wrote:
autopoiesis wrote:
strongly recommend loading in a bank of primarily sinusoidal waveforms - bank A from the e350/352 is great - as the factory set doesn't include too many good sine table progressions, important for exploring its (very good) FM and wavefolding (process a sine or tri wave through a sinusoidal waveform in external input mode)


That's a really good idea, Im going to have to try this.


Do it! grin

I agree with @autopoiesis. For a few weeks I've had SynTech and Ensoniq waveforms loaded in my PH3. They include at least one sine wave table. Great for PH3's FM, true; but also great for basic waveform design.
mt3
Try wavefolding drums by patching drums into Piston Honda mk III via the EXT IN (while in EXTERNAL mode).
The following involve adjusting wavefolding depth (the volume knob) as well as modulating X, Y, and Z axes to provide a taste of the variety one can obtain:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz5Uu1VB7vT

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz1Dyq6BMlb

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzy_-Wbhn3X
synonymist
mt3 wrote:
Try wavefolding drums by patching drums into Piston Honda mk III via the EXT IN (while in EXTERNAL mode).
The following involve adjusting wavefolding depth (the volume knob) as well as modulating X, Y, and Z axes to provide a taste of the variety one can obtain:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz5Uu1VB7vT

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz1Dyq6BMlb

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzy_-Wbhn3X


Nice! Each had a good flavor, but the last one was my favorite.
novim
Circling back round to the idea of picking up a PH Mk3. I sold my Mk2 a few months ago and pretty quickly started to miss a few things, like the way some slider positions could get it to glitch between two waveforms, without any modulation added. Is this something the Mk3 is capable of? Or is it more 'stable' that way?

And I've read the brief comparisons above, but can the Mk3 get close to the unstable noisiness of the Mk2 (using stock or custom wavetables) or are they just qualitatively different, being 16-bit and 8-bit, respectively?
Misk
The Mk3 can definitely get unstable with a small amount of cross-mod between the two oscillators. It's capable of getting deep into digital noise territory too.
autopoiesis
the glitching between two waveforms i haven't seen on my mk3, you probably need the variable waveform discontinuity control to make that happen. but i prefer unstable and think the mk3 is the best dual oscillator I've used, just ahead of the shapeshifter and dpo
Sinamsis
Honestly even in the mk II I think there was a firmware update to avoid the glitching between two values IIRC. Some people like it but for me it was more of a nuisance.
novim
Thanks for the replies, folks. I've gone and done it Dead Banana
bemushroomed
Considering this one.. But one important thing (for me) does it save its state after powering off/on?

I find it extremely annoying when modules doesn't do that, total deal breaker.
autopoiesis
no, the idea along those lines is you save to preset #1 (or whichever you choose to be the default on power up). I also hate digital modules that require saving states before power down and hope that IME will change this one day

but this module is absolutely worth it
bemushroomed
Ok at least you can save as a preset.. i dont know, not optimal but better than nothing.
autopoiesis
automatic saving is definitely my #1 request for future firmware. second would be amplitude control over the fm input (ie FM index) via the CV jack (as it behaves in external input mode), selectable via the global menu.

i saw your original post before editing and agree that having multiple digital modules in a system that don't auto-save is a bit of a nightmare. I have to remember to save the piston honda, the ornament and crime, and the zadar before shutting down, and even so I am still considering a second zadar. and not to mention my goddamn sequencer (pyramid) which doesn't auto-save anything, but is too good to sell along for this reason. some things are worth a little trouble

one thing to keep in mind is that these kinds of modules allow you to achieve patches that would require many more modules and dense patches otherwise, with switching and macro control modules in the mix required to reconfigure without tearing it all down. the 2 seconds spent saving settings per module each time you shut down is a wash in comparison to the time involved to get to these results the old school way, and arguably also worth it in terms of the cost and HP saved. but if it's possible to implement auto-saving in firmware, it REALLY ought to be there.

yes this is all more time consuming than shutting down a DAW but the same could be said for many patching scenarios. we are in this for the unique timbres and the unique modulation sources, not so much for maximally efficient workflows, right?
bemushroomed
yeah i went on rambling too much hihi since you can save it's not THAT big of a deal, i've had plenty (and have at least one) that can't even save.

is the table size the same as on e352 (which i've owned).. sometimes i did wish it was a bit larger.. if its the same, is there any wavetable osc with a bigger table size than these two?
SavageMessiah
Has anybody had any pitch tracking issues with PH3? Mine always seems to be sharp at 0v. According to the internal tuner it seems to be pretty dead on for anything above 0v though. It's weird.
jwise
SavageMessiah wrote:
Has anybody had any pitch tracking issues with PH3? Mine always seems to be sharp at 0v. According to the internal tuner it seems to be pretty dead on for anything above 0v though. It's weird.


You might want to consider going through the calibration process.
SavageMessiah
Hmm, the main reason I haven't is that the calibration procedures basically involves centering the tuner on C with 1 and 7 volt sources. I checked at those voltages and it was dead on.

Or maybe I did that on Hertz Donut confused. I'll check again, I guess.
yeatsvisitslincoln
I've noticed that I can get a little jump once I plug in a cable from my sequencer. It's not big and doesn't really matter because it still tracks exactly as it should with the sequencer.

I'm assuming that the direct connection is lessening the impedance between ground on the sequencer and ground on the PHiii. They're in two different cases... so probably to be expected.
PietroC
Anybody else Received the PHMK3 with a extra Orange Knob
for OSC A FM In

Nightly Closures
Lucky you.
mt3
yeatsvisitslincoln wrote:
I've noticed that I can get a little jump once I plug in a cable from my sequencer. It's not big and doesn't really matter because it still tracks exactly as it should with the sequencer.

I'm assuming that the direct connection is lessening the impedance between ground on the sequencer and ground on the PHiii. They're in two different cases... so probably to be expected.


What PSU are you using?
Are the modules running off the same PSU?
PietroC
Its Confirmed By IME that PHMK3 ships with a extra
orange knob for the FM / EXT on Oscillator A Now
joey


PHMKIII kick here
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