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VCO options for a beginner
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2 [all]
Author VCO options for a beginner
He_lium
Well yes of course smile Thanks R.U.Nuts
Dextreme08
beliefsystemrecords wrote:
The Intellijel Shapeshifter does almoste verything you want.


That's one I haven't heard of before. I'll look into it.

MarcelP wrote:

If you are initially going for bass then from my rack I would suggest a Furthrrrr Generator and a Rossum Evolution....


The Furthrrrr does intrigue me (for the looks as much as the features!) although the Rossum Evolution would take it out of my price range at the moment.

I may have to try to get to a modular shop when I can to get hands on with all these suggestions as its looking like there is no definitive winner!

Alternatively I might just get where i can with cheaper doepfer modules until I get more of a feeling for what works for me...
dysonant
I have owned and sold my fair share of oscillators, both digital and analog. The first thing I will say is that the secret sauce can come from external modules, but that basic oscillator features are important. Much of that has been discussed here already in response to your requirements pretty clearly detailed in the OP.

One already mentioned that fits all of your requirements is the Hertz Donut MKII. It is an incredibly flexible module capable of clean and dirty sounds, but there is always a bit of aliasing, which in my opinion defines some of it's character. I've had it for probably three years and still discover new ways to use it. You should listen to it in person if possible, but I would say if you give it time and patience it will not disappoint.

Another already mentioned is the DPO. It does not have thru-zero FM, but as mentioned is extremely versatile and is many modules in one. There are many examples of it's sound online and several demos. It is fully capable of meeting the needs your described.

One that has not been mentioned is the E352. The new beta software has added thru-zero FM and it is amazing sounding. There is really no module comparable to it. While it only has two outputs, what you can do with wavetables, clouds and morphing provides and endless source of timbres.

Frankly, if I were buying my first oscillator now, it would hands down be an E352.
peripatitis
Dextreme08 wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
so your goal is to record bass samples to use later in a sampler?

Correct. Eventually it would be nice to do other things but I'm starting with a limited scope!


Well in that case i wouldn't go for a digital vco which have no real benefit over a computer sound source, especially in stepped workflow (meaning that you will be involved in sampling).
Personally i would focus more on the filters which can be a lot more usefull in a limited setup with few cv sources..
MarcelP
Dextreme08 wrote:
beliefsystemrecords wrote:
The Intellijel Shapeshifter does almoste verything you want.


That's one I haven't heard of before. I'll look into it.

MarcelP wrote:

If you are initially going for bass then from my rack I would suggest a Furthrrrr Generator and a Rossum Evolution....


The Furthrrrr does intrigue me (for the looks as much as the features!) although the Rossum Evolution would take it out of my price range at the moment.

I may have to try to get to a modular shop when I can to get hands on with all these suggestions as its looking like there is no definitive winner!

Alternatively I might just get where i can with cheaper doepfer modules until I get more of a feeling for what works for me...


Evolution is just icing on the Furthrrrr cake - the FG works great as a stand-alone sound source and is (to my ears) less harsh than DPO, better in the bottom end.

The Doepfer option is good too - I especially like the sound of the thru zero oscillator - amazing value, the sound is not compromised by the price. Though bear in mind: it has been discussed on other threads that getting full Complex oscillator facilities (ie DPO) by assembling individual Doepfer modules could be more costly in the long run. That is my practical experience too - fun to do, ultimately hugely flexible, but costly in cash and space.
Joe.
MarcelP wrote:
Though bear in mind: it has been discussed on other threads that getting full Complex oscillator facilities (ie DPO) by assembling individual Doepfer modules could be more costly in the long run. That is my practical experience too - fun to do, ultimately hugely flexible, but costly in cash and space.


This approach will allow the most flexible Complex oscillator in the end though (as long as you dont limit your self to Doepfer). There are soooo many varieties of wavefolders now for example, a 'built in' one will limit you to that sound.

The same applies to the VCO's you choose for the Carrier and a Modulator: having a variety of oscillators to chose from, 3 or 4, to build a basic 2 osc FM patch will allow so many different final sounds from effectively the same patch structure. (for example, I like FM'ing my E340 cloud generator, with a WMD Spectrum. but then other times a Spectrum & E330, or the E330 FM'ing the Spectrum, etc etc)
R.U.Nuts
LoFi Junglist wrote:
MarcelP wrote:
Though bear in mind: it has been discussed on other threads that getting full Complex oscillator facilities (ie DPO) by assembling individual Doepfer modules could be more costly in the long run. That is my practical experience too - fun to do, ultimately hugely flexible, but costly in cash and space.


This approach will allow the most flexible Complex oscillator in the end though (as long as you dont limit your self to Doepfer). There are soooo many varieties of wavefolders now for example, a 'built in' one will limit you to that sound.

The same applies to the VCO's you choose for the Carrier and a Modulator: having a variety of oscillators to chose from, 3 or 4, to build a basic 2 osc FM patch will allow so many different final sounds from effectively the same patch structure. (for example, I like FM'ing my E340 cloud generator, with a WMD Spectrum. but then other times a Spectrum & E330, or the E330 FM'ing the Spectrum, etc etc)

So you could also buy a complex VCO and add another wavefolder and VCOs. Or two complex VCOs seriously, i just don't get it Of course four VCOs and two or more wavefolders offer more variety than a single complex VCO.
I'd like to argue that complex VCOs can be more flexible than a combo of seperate modules since it often require you to only twist some knobs to get a certain result while the same thing requires you to repatch your setup of seperate modules.
dysonant
R.U.Nuts wrote:
LoFi Junglist wrote:
MarcelP wrote:
Though bear in mind: it has been discussed on other threads that getting full Complex oscillator facilities (ie DPO) by assembling individual Doepfer modules could be more costly in the long run. That is my practical experience too - fun to do, ultimately hugely flexible, but costly in cash and space.


This approach will allow the most flexible Complex oscillator in the end though (as long as you dont limit your self to Doepfer). There are soooo many varieties of wavefolders now for example, a 'built in' one will limit you to that sound.

The same applies to the VCO's you choose for the Carrier and a Modulator: having a variety of oscillators to chose from, 3 or 4, to build a basic 2 osc FM patch will allow so many different final sounds from effectively the same patch structure. (for example, I like FM'ing my E340 cloud generator, with a WMD Spectrum. but then other times a Spectrum & E330, or the E330 FM'ing the Spectrum, etc etc)

So you could also buy a complex VCO and add another wavefolder and VCOs. Or two complex VCOs seriously, i just don't get it Of course four VCOs and two or more wavefolders offer more variety than a single complex VCO.
I'd like to argue that complex VCOs can be more flexible than a combo of seperate modules since it often require you to only twist some knobs to get a certain result while the same thing requires you to repatch your setup of seperate modules.


I tend to agree with you on the point that a complex Osc is special in ways over the individual modules. For example patching the follow circuit on the DPO would require even more than just your basic modules, not to mention the normalizations from VCO B to all the stuff in the timbre section. However, I disagree with the statement that it is more flexible than a combo of modules. Yes, you may have more flexibility to quickly modify a patch simply by turning knobs, but it also lacks the openness of individual modules. There are many times where I would like to tap into the wavefolder on the DPO and I cannot.

On the main topic, somehow this has become a conversation about complex oscillators, which is fine, but I still suggest the OP take a close look at the E352. If this is the beginning of you "going modular" it can be the foundation upon which you build.
starthief
dysonant wrote:
Yes, you may have more flexibility to quickly modify a patch simply by turning knobs, but it also lacks the openness of individual modules. There are many times where I would like to tap into the wavefolder on the DPO and I cannot.


Double Helix has inputs that let you feed anything through its wavefolder and LPG. It would have been nice if the folder/LPG were separate, and if there was a crossfade control for the two inputs rather than a summing mixer, but it gets the job done.

Really just adding a wavefolder to any existing complex oscillator should give you all the flexibility of separate modules. And now you have TWO folders to play with. smile WIth a uFold added, I've never felt stymied by any limitations of my Hertz Donut or Double Helix.

But I think there are no wrong answers here; it all comes down to personal preference.

E352 is an interesting suggestion. There's 2-OP FM mode, a phase modulation mode which works nicely, a wavefolding mode, and an FM input that's now switchable between expo and linear TZFM. You'd want to add another (probably relatively simple) VCO to take advantage of all of it.

Personally: my three most used VCOs in order are E370, Double Helix, and Hertz Donut. All of them are quite versatile, but I tend to use each more for the things they naturally excel at, only occasionally doing things "the hard way" grin So for dynamic linear TZFM I usually turn to Hertz Donut; for dark and woody and round West Coast stuff I go with Double Helix; for enormous pads, massively complex drones, or for individual "simple" VCO/LFO duties I tend to choose E370.
Dextreme08
dysonant wrote:

...
On the main topic, somehow this has become a conversation about complex oscillators, which is fine, but I still suggest the OP take a close look at the E352. If this is the beginning of you "going modular" it can be the foundation upon which you build.


The conversation about complex vcos is part of what made me make the original post as they seemed to solve a lot of my requirements.

The E352 to me looks very close to still being 'in the box' with knobs on, especially as the most used VST's right now are wavetable synths. However with this many people recommending it, it's definitely worth a look. Hopefully I will get a chance to see one in the wild soon
Eurtrude
Did you take a look on full voices, like the SE Tonestar ? It's very well featured : 1 super fat osc with mixer on différent waveforms + sub - 1 gorgeous vcf with distortion - 2 env. - 1 vca - 1 lfo...

You could then add an another cheap osc (doepfer) for fm sounds and a wavefolder ?

The demos I heard from the Tonestar 2600 were amazing, especially for bass.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds0ftMQBeXI[video]
racooniac
+1 for the rubicon2 & dixieII+ & wavefolder combo

its analog and it can be as simple or complex as you want it to be.

to make it "fat" just add the right filter and experiment with saturation/distortion on various points in the signal chain.
peripatitis
Eurtrude wrote:
Did you take a look on full voices, like the SE Tonestar ? It's very well featured : 1 super fat osc with mixer on différent waveforms + sub - 1 gorgeous vcf with distortion - 2 env. - 1 vca - 1 lfo...

You could then add an another cheap osc (doepfer) for fm sounds and a wavefolder ?

The demos I heard from the Tonestar 2600 were amazing, especially for bass.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds0ftMQBeXI[video]

That's a good idea, another perhaps might be this:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-bantam-prototype-silve r
but i don't know when its coming out..
Eurtrude
peripatitis wrote:
Eurtrude wrote:
Did you take a look on full voices, like the SE Tonestar ? It's very well featured : 1 super fat osc with mixer on différent waveforms + sub - 1 gorgeous vcf with distortion - 2 env. - 1 vca - 1 lfo...

You could then add an another cheap osc (doepfer) for fm sounds and a wavefolder ?

The demos I heard from the Tonestar 2600 were amazing, especially for bass.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds0ftMQBeXI[video]

That's a good idea, another perhaps might be this:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-bantam-prototype-silve r
but i don't know when its coming out..


Oh God... always more ! screaming goo yo
Thanks for the link, didn't hear about it !
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