Tintinnabuli?

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phantompowered
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Tintinnabuli?

Post by phantompowered » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm

I have long been enamored with the "tintinnabuli" or bell-like algorithmic compositional structures made famous by Arvo Part. Read up on someone who has made generative music with these structures here:

https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpress.c ... arvo-part/

I'd be fascinated to bring this idea into a modular as a form of sequence generation. I feel like the Ornament and Crime may be able to get close - using the IntSeq internal CV sources for example - but not quite there yet. I haven't had the chance to experiment enough with it.

If I were aiming to make something like this possible, where might I look? One immediate idea is to code a similar generator into a programmable module like the OWL... which I don't have. My experience writing for Puredata, MAX and the like is incredibly minimal but I can really see some potential forming here.

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Timmy
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Re: Tintinnabuli?

Post by Timmy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 pm

phantompowered wrote:I have long been enamored with the "tintinnabuli" or bell-like algorithmic compositional structures made famous by Arvo Part. Read up on someone who has made generative music with these structures here:

https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpress.c ... arvo-part/

I'd be fascinated to bring this idea into a modular as a form of sequence generation. I feel like the Ornament and Crime may be able to get close - using the IntSeq internal CV sources for example - but not quite there yet. I haven't had the chance to experiment enough with it.

If I were aiming to make something like this possible, where might I look? One immediate idea is to code a similar generator into a programmable module like the OWL... which I don't have. My experience writing for Puredata, MAX and the like is incredibly minimal but I can really see some potential forming here.
Yeah, Guy Birkin's blog is excellent, and some of his blog posts directly inspired features in O&C, not the least the inclusion of quite a few fractal integer sequences from the OEIS (the Online Encyclopaedia of Integer sequences, what a great web site!). In fact, I recall reading the blog post to which you link, and making a note somewhere to try to build generation of T-voice lines around an M-voice progression, itself generated from an OEIS sequence. The plan was to build that capability into the CopierMaschine app, but it never happened, and then we filled up all the storage on the MPU. However, it's something I'd still like to do, and to might be possible to squeeze it in. But really, a successor to O&C is needed which has access to bulk storage (ie an SD card) on which lots of and long integer sequences can be stored. Why not just generate them on-the-fly? Well, many of the algorithms for generating such sequences are recursive, and that's bad news on a small MPU in which all computation must occurring 60 microsecond slices between hardware interrupts (such is the life of a dedicated microprocessor...).

phantompowered
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Re: Tintinnabuli?

Post by phantompowered » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:03 pm

Timmy wrote:
phantompowered wrote:I have long been enamored with the "tintinnabuli" or bell-like algorithmic compositional structures made famous by Arvo Part. Read up on someone who has made generative music with these structures here:

https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpress.c ... arvo-part/

I'd be fascinated to bring this idea into a modular as a form of sequence generation. I feel like the Ornament and Crime may be able to get close - using the IntSeq internal CV sources for example - but not quite there yet. I haven't had the chance to experiment enough with it.

If I were aiming to make something like this possible, where might I look? One immediate idea is to code a similar generator into a programmable module like the OWL... which I don't have. My experience writing for Puredata, MAX and the like is incredibly minimal but I can really see some potential forming here.
Yeah, Guy Birkin's blog is excellent, and some of his blog posts directly inspired features in O&C, not the least the inclusion of quite a few fractal integer sequences from the OEIS (the Online Encyclopaedia of Integer sequences, what a great web site!). In fact, I recall reading the blog post to which you link, and making a note somewhere to try to build generation of T-voice lines around an M-voice progression, itself generated from an OEIS sequence. The plan was to build that capability into the CopierMaschine app, but it never happened, and then we filled up all the storage on the MPU. However, it's something I'd still like to do, and to might be possible to squeeze it in. But really, a successor to O&C is needed which has access to bulk storage (ie an SD card) on which lots of and long integer sequences can be stored. Why not just generate them on-the-fly? Well, many of the algorithms for generating such sequences are recursive, and that's bad news on a small MPU in which all computation must occurring 60 microsecond slices between hardware interrupts (such is the life of a dedicated microprocessor...).
Just thinking about an O+C successor is giving the the vapors, oh lordy!

It's really neat that CopierMaschine almost had that function. Thanks for the response! I have yet to really explore the fractal integer settings in the IntSeq bank but I am certainly going to take a closer look at them soon.

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Timmy
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Re: Tintinnabuli?

Post by Timmy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:17 pm

phantompowered wrote:
Timmy wrote:
phantompowered wrote:I have long been enamored with the "tintinnabuli" or bell-like algorithmic compositional structures made famous by Arvo Part. Read up on someone who has made generative music with these structures here:

https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpress.c ... arvo-part/

I'd be fascinated to bring this idea into a modular as a form of sequence generation. I feel like the Ornament and Crime may be able to get close - using the IntSeq internal CV sources for example - but not quite there yet. I haven't had the chance to experiment enough with it.

If I were aiming to make something like this possible, where might I look? One immediate idea is to code a similar generator into a programmable module like the OWL... which I don't have. My experience writing for Puredata, MAX and the like is incredibly minimal but I can really see some potential forming here.
Yeah, Guy Birkin's blog is excellent, and some of his blog posts directly inspired features in O&C, not the least the inclusion of quite a few fractal integer sequences from the OEIS (the Online Encyclopaedia of Integer sequences, what a great web site!). In fact, I recall reading the blog post to which you link, and making a note somewhere to try to build generation of T-voice lines around an M-voice progression, itself generated from an OEIS sequence. The plan was to build that capability into the CopierMaschine app, but it never happened, and then we filled up all the storage on the MPU. However, it's something I'd still like to do, and to might be possible to squeeze it in. But really, a successor to O&C is needed which has access to bulk storage (ie an SD card) on which lots of and long integer sequences can be stored. Why not just generate them on-the-fly? Well, many of the algorithms for generating such sequences are recursive, and that's bad news on a small MPU in which all computation must occurring 60 microsecond slices between hardware interrupts (such is the life of a dedicated microprocessor...).
Just thinking about an O+C successor is giving the the vapors, oh lordy!

It's really neat that CopierMaschine almost had that function. Thanks for the response! I have yet to really explore the fractal integer settings in the IntSeq bank but I am certainly going to take a closer look at them soon.
The IntSeq sequences in O&C are only 128 values long (they were 256 values but we had to cut them back for space reasons), but you can set the start and end points of the loop and slide and/or expand and contract the loop window across those 128 values under voltage control. And the integers can be mapped to note scales and sub scales in a very large number of ways, so a lot of variation is possible, despite the limited number of integer sequences available. And in the Quantermain app, you can run four different sequences independently. But it would be nice to be able to choose from a bank of several hundred or so curated integer sequences taken from the OEIS, each maybe several thousand values long. That would be possible with SD card storage.

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Re: Tintinnabuli?

Post by electricanada » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:55 pm

phantompowered wrote:I have long been enamored with the "tintinnabuli" or bell-like algorithmic compositional structures made famous by Arvo Part.
Did you get any further with this? I don’t think digital modules are necessary. You could do it with a A155/154 and some utilities.
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

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Post by subbasshead » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:27 pm

Space is the breath of art

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BenA718
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Post by BenA718 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:10 am

Interesting stuff!

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Post by cptnal » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Always enjoyed playing two different quantizers against each other. Now I know why. :party:
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DirkB
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Re: Tintinnabuli?

Post by DirkB » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:26 pm

are there, as of today, any ideas concerning the tintinnabuli arithmetic structures/sequencing methods in modular??? I'm very interested in this approach

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Re: Tintinnabuli?

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:13 pm

phantompowered wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm
I have long been enamored with the "tintinnabuli" or bell-like algorithmic compositional structures made famous by Arvo Part. Read up on someone who has made generative music with these structures here:

https://aestheticcomplexity.wordpress.c ... arvo-part/

I'd be fascinated to bring this idea into a modular as a form of sequence generation. I feel like the Ornament and Crime may be able to get close - using the IntSeq internal CV sources for example - but not quite there yet. I haven't had the chance to experiment enough with it.

If I were aiming to make something like this possible, where might I look? One immediate idea is to code a similar generator into a programmable module like the OWL... which I don't have. My experience writing for Puredata, MAX and the like is incredibly minimal but I can really see some potential forming here.
https://www.wolfram.com/engine/free-license/
this might be a bit less user friendly

https://www.wolfram.com/legal/agreement ... pberry-pi/
better but you need to buy a pi to run it

buy the damn thing for $18 a month or $9 student
https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/pricing/home-hobby/
https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/pricing/students/

as a long time user of this software I can say that it is both easy and powerful. it doesn't replace AWS and python. it is slow for machine learning. but for your algorythmic composition and making representational pictures, there is nothing that is purpose built like this. maple comes close but I wouldn't try to do WAV or midi in maple. the code would not be as clean or concise in maple. you get a 14 day demo also but that is not enough time to learn a programming language. just enough to run some code you found to get hooked.

ask me if you get stuck coding. I know a lot about this language.
WWW.EATYOURGUITAR.COM <---- MY DIY STUFF

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