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WaveEdit Online - E352/E370 wavetable bank sharing
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author WaveEdit Online - E352/E370 wavetable bank sharing
mdoudoroff
This is a formal thread for discussing the community wavetable bank sharing for the Synthesis Technology E352 and E370 and the web service that facilitates the sharing:

https://waveeditonline.com

News, questions, and feedback
mdoudoroff
I recently added a more complete, paginated interface to the web site, along with direct downloading (so you aren’t obliged to always go through WaveEdit). You can also now download a zip file containing ALL the public banks. (The zip file is automatically updated to be current.)

Big props to Jason Proctor, Hermann Seib and Cary Roberts for recently sharing 30+ vintage PPG wavetable banks, and to CF3 for sharing vintage Ensoniq ESQ-1 banks.
drxcm
This is awesome - thanks!
HighLordFixer
Eye have massive collection of wavetables in my arkives from doing experiments...
plus made CDrom series for Ensoniq ASR10R that includes them
got addicted to wavetables
you obviously get how it goes obsessing in creative experimentation mode
it's like pokemon
Gotta Catch 'em All
what specs do you need for the wavetables?
came across your module before and the editor
looks like fun
CF3
Great work, the site looks awesome SlayerBadger!

The "download all" feature is essential.
mdoudoroff
HighLordFixer wrote:
Eye have massive collection of wavetables in my arkives from doing experiments...
plus made CDrom series for Ensoniq ASR10R that includes them
got addicted to wavetables
you obviously get how it goes obsessing in creative experimentation mode
it's like pokemon
Gotta Catch 'em All
what specs do you need for the wavetables?
came across your module before and the editor
looks like fun


That’s a nice offer. The wavetables would have to be loaded into the free WaveEdit software and edited (as necessary) to yield banks appropriate for the E352/E370.

http://synthtech.com/waveedit

Other folks, such as as CF3, know a lot more about that process than I do.
Worwell
Thank you Martin and co. This is a great service to the community.
Joe.
Dear Paults, Please let me import wavetables into the E330 (hides)
starthief
Ooh, more wavetables to catch up on! SlayerBadger!
electricfence
This is awesome! Thanks! Rockin' Banana! we're not worthy
paults
Quote:
Dear Paults, Please let me import wavetables into the E330


How, exactly? WiFi? Magic wand?
Joe.
paults wrote:
Quote:
Dear Paults, Please let me import wavetables into the E330


How, exactly? WiFi? Magic wand?


Well that's a bit rude razz

How about by updating the module through a wav file the WaveEdit software generates, and then playing it into the module, in the same way Mutable Instruments allow Firmware updates seriously, i just don't get it

Its a rad idea. Go tell your designers thumbs up
paults
Or buy an E352? Guinness ftw!
akrylik
LoFi Junglist wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Dear Paults, Please let me import wavetables into the E330


How, exactly? WiFi? Magic wand?


Well that's a bit rude razz

How about by updating the module through a wav file the WaveEdit software generates, and then playing it into the module, in the same way Mutable Instruments allow Firmware updates seriously, i just don't get it

Its a rad idea. Go tell your designers thumbs up


Asking someone to do work for your benefit without paying them is definitely more rude. razz Guinness ftw!
Joe.
paults wrote:
Or buy an E352? Guinness ftw!


It's like number 5 on my to-do list thumbs up

Nothing wrong with the E330 set btw, I just to put something wacky in there hihi
Vortico
LoFi Junglist wrote:

How about by updating the module through a wav file the WaveEdit software generates, and then playing it into the module

Requires an equal amount of magic
duck1887
electricfence wrote:
This is awesome! Thanks! Rockin' Banana! we're not worthy

Quite right, but let me also add: thumbs up It's peanut butter jelly time! thumbs up It's peanut butter jelly time! thumbs up
dooj88
mdoudoroff wrote:
I recently added a more complete, paginated interface to the web site, along with direct downloading (so you aren’t obliged to always go through WaveEdit). You can also now download a zip file containing ALL the public banks. (The zip file is automatically updated to be current.)

Big props to Jason Proctor, Hermann Seib and Cary Roberts for recently sharing 30+ vintage PPG wavetable banks, and to CF3 for sharing vintage Ensoniq ESQ-1 banks.


we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy was just thinking how great this would be the other day!
mdoudoroff
So I dropped our whole catalog to-date on an SD Card and this is what I got:



- the files are not in any kind of useful order
- tilde hell
- pointless “.WAV”

It’s 2018, and here we are still dealing with 8.3 filenames. Meanwhile, the full names are just sitting there on the SD card, unused, and there’s all this glorious screen real estate wasted. Ridiculous. meh

I guess I could try to supply carefully-wrought 8 character filenames for each file via WaveEdit Online. I guess there’s nothing to be done about the rest of it. d'oh!

Thoughts/ideas?
paults
The LCD used is not a nVidia card on a 21in monitor. There is no real easy way to format 255 character file names on that screen, for one.

Also, the code is not running on an i7 with 16GB or RAM. It's a minimal file system running on a microcontroller with <100K (not M or G, a K) of available SRAM of which 64K alone would be needed to read in the max of 255 files, all with 255 character file names.

8.3 was great for 25 years, think of it as "cool retro chiptunes" stuff Dead Banana Guinness ftw! Rockin' Banana!
emeb
Also, don't forget that the E352 and E370 file menu supports one level of subdirectories. You can organize your waves / banks into subdirs with arbitrary names with up to 255 files in each.
mdoudoroff
paults wrote:
The LCD used is not a nVidia card on a 21in monitor. There is no real easy way to format 255 character file names on that screen, for one.


If you had access to the long filenames, then you should just as easily be able to paint the first 20-21 characters of that file name (without any line wrapping or other trickiness), and that alone would make a world of difference. Compare:



As it stands, I defy you to locate and load “PPG wavetable 23” or “Enshturzen 2” from your file menu.

paults wrote:
Also, the code is not running on an i7 with 16GB or RAM. It's a minimal file system running on a microcontroller with <100K (not M or G, a K) of available SRAM of which 64K alone would be needed to read in the max of 255 files, all with 255 character file names.


I understand this at an elementary level (I am a software developer but do not work on embedded systems and yes, I’m not accustomed to working within such narrow limitations). But has your software person actually tried to think this through, or are you simply being habitually dismissive? If there’s no way to lazily load filenames (huge latency, perhaps) and/or to only hack the first 21-22 characters of the filename (rather than the whole thing), then perhaps that’s that. Hopefully, you will be able to avoid this particular limitation in future designs.

If we’re SOL on the module side, then the question remains what we can do systemically on the sharing side to yield a better experience with the module. That’s one of the reasons I created this thread.

All these tildes and serial numbers—and the file extension, for that matter—are pure noise in the interface. If we’ve only got eight alphanumeric characters with which to produce a viably distinctive filename, that’s a challenge that will only get harder as this grows and we certainly don’t want to waste 2-4 of those precious characters. I can try to write an algorithm to generate better filenames. That will only get us so far, but it wouldn’t be nothing.

Quote:
Also, don't forget that the E352 and E370 file menu supports one level of subdirectories. You can organize your waves / banks into subdirs with arbitrary names with up to 255 files in each.


The number of E352/E370 customers who want to sit around manually renaming and organizing 100+ bank files is zero.

I can probably come up with a reasonable mechanism to organize the banks into folders within the zip file, but that doesn’t address the filename gobbledygook.
Fastus
And for those of us who do rename the banks before loading to SD card, a sort by title would be awesome.
paults
It's not nearly as easy as it seems to do this, mainly for the reason I pointed out: very limited RAM.

For example, let's say you have on your hard drive:

this_is_a_cool_file_vocal_final.wav
this_is_a_cool_file_vocal_final1.wav

how is this supposed to be "handled" without reading in the entire name, deciding when the "unique identifier" is? We can't! so we have to read it all in, and what if that identifier is the 255th character? THEN what is supposed to happen?

The other alternative is to 'make up' an artificial limitation like "OK you can't use 255 characters but you can use 14" but again, this now becomes 'lore' and 6 years from now all forgotten except for people be like "Hey what's the deal with the truncated file names??!?"

Understand that 99.9999% of the effort is to make great sounding AUDIO come out. Yes, I'm "pushing back" here. I don't want to have Eric re-write perfectly WORKING code in exchange for an arbitrary file naming convention.

And no, I don't want to support naming the presets, either. Again, because 1000s and 1000s of lines of code have to be rewritten that works now.
starthief
The module is (I assume) not reading long filenames and spitting out the 8.3 format; those names are created by your OS when the files are written. Originally that was for backward compatibility with DOS, but it continues to be a part of the file system standard.

I saw something online aabout microcontrollers not natively supporting long filenames because it requires paying royalties to Microsoft... not sure if true.

The point is, displaying long filenames isn't as trivial as it seems like it should be. 8.3 is the default, minimal fuss version.


mdoudoroff wrote:
The number of E352/E370 customers who want to sit around manually renaming and organizing 100+ bank files is zero.


I manually organize and rename as necessary to make them legible. I also audition every bank (on the module itself so I can try Cloud mode, different kinds of modulation etc.) and cull a lot of them. I have kept about two dozen WaveEdit online banks that aren't mine, and a roughly equal number of banks I've created (I haven't posted my converted Serum or Massive banks).

(And this is going off on a tangent, but I'll probably use about 1/3 of what I've kept, though some of them are staples that I keep going back to. I think of a big library of samples, banks etc. as a supermarket with lots of variety -- it's nice having a choice of 11 different kinds of tortilla chips but I'm going to settle on one or two favorites.)
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