Question to Sidrax Organ owners: is this normal?

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batchas
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Question to Sidrax Organ owners: is this normal?

Post by batchas » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:55 am

The max pitch on the Sidrax Organ I have in front of me on the 2 last bars top right is way lower than max pitch on bars 1 to 5 (of course nothing plugged in, just pressing one bar at once and setting pitch with slider).
It's not something my logic likes (difficult to formulate in words so shortly) but is it normal and meant as LFO instead, for modulation purposes for instance? Wondering as I don’t know the machine yet, nor did I look behind the wood bars if any trimmer was there to change that.

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Post by jimmie » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:10 pm

That sounds like something's wrong. On mine every bar is the same. no idea about trimmers as I've never taken the bars off.

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Post by batchas » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:57 am

jimmie wrote:That sounds like something's wrong. On mine every bar is the same. no idea about trimmers as I've never taken the bars off.
Thanks jimmie. I appreciate.
I'm gonna look then behind these bars :tu:

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Post by batchas » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:03 am

Ok. Took 10 seconds to check one out. No trimmer. Just the piezzo.
I just bought it here on the forum, no hot to take the all unit apart without being sure there's a way to trim these.
Hmmm... I guess I need to contact Peter then to ask if there's a way to do that.
jimmie wrote:That sounds like something's wrong. On mine every bar is the same.
Oh. On mine all different. And the 2 last way lower :(
I tested the unit only with a new 9v battery.
I'm gonna try with the PB or Coco psu then to see if there's any difference.

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Post by jimmie » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:42 pm

Possibly the sliders are like dirty etc?

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Post by batchas » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:48 pm

jimmie wrote:Possibly the sliders are like dirty etc?
It does not look like... I hope not.

Could you please tell me if you use it with a wallwart and what are the specifications? I have the PSU from the Cocoquantus and also from the PB 1 if necessary, but would like to be certain, as these are 12v afaik, even if there's no big risk of making something wrong.

I guess I could simply try with the 12v PSU from the Cocoquantus, as it also uses a 9v battery like the Sidrax.

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Post by horaflora » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:17 am

use the one from either of those - all the same - I bet that'll solve your problem, hope so anyways..

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Post by jimmie » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:16 pm

Sorry batchas I checked my unit again with a bit more carefully than before (it was a super quick casual check), the ranges of all the bars are NOT the same. Some are a bit higher than others etc. I'm still not actually 'measuring' voltages or doing anything scientific but just listening from the speakers when tweaking sliders, tho. The power source doesn't affect this 'irregularity', it only changes overal range of pitch. What I think, tho, I'm not really expecting Sidrax to be a precise instrument at all, bars response to volume is much more irregular to the pressure due probably to imprecise wood bars and super wide range of piezo etc, so personally I don't really worry about this - or adopted to live with it :guinness:

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Post by dogoftears » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:30 pm

all the organi perform much better with a 12v PSU. i don't recommend the 9v operation. tuning and other things will be affected.

the tuning sliders IME are not in any way accurate or matched. i haven't checked but i doubt they all have the same "max" pitch.
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Post by batchas » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:15 am

Merci les amis. It's helping me :tu:

I would not buy these if I expected precision hihi (look at the circuits + this is the beauty of these Ciat-Lonbarde instruments anyway and so it can take you to other dimensions) but I thought I should nevertheless ask, cause for the way I function***, it would have been nice to have "some kind of" equal max pitch, or at least not an irregular series of (1) high | (2) high | (3) low | (4) higher | (5) high | (6) low | (7) lower bars, so I could have set very quickly visually from low to high while performing. I never play with "notes", just "by ears", so it's not a bummer at all, simply a nice-to-have thing. I was more about being sure it was made like this and, most of all, there are no individual trimmers in the back to adjust the voltages.
Again thanx :tu:

EDIT: ***I mean with pots like on some buchla controllers, I would not even have asked, but with sliders it's different as I "see" notes from low to high.
Now when the max pitch is not equal, I see sliders in all positions, but I cannot know which one is higher or not.
As said, not a no-go, cause I won't play a classical song on these 7 bars and I'll have to set these by ears anyway, equal max high pitch or not, nevertheless a possibility to trim these would have been really cool for what I have in mind.
I'll adapt anyway and if I really miss something I'll check the circuit in details to see how values are set individually.
That's the cool thing with electronics or programming, you can tweak or hack things for your indiv. needs after they have been done if you wish to.

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Post by jimmie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:00 am

どういたしまして! I also tune by ears but the range of the sliders is rather wide so it's not super easy to make any set of precise tuning at a time anyways, so a little fluctuation on bars are not an issue for me. wait, you could utilize blue inputs perhaps :hihi:

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Post by batchas » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:08 am

jimmie wrote:どういたしまして! I also tune by ears but the range of the sliders is rather wide so it's not super easy to make any set of precise tuning at a time anyways, so a little fluctuation on bars are not an issue for me. wait, you could utilize blue inputs perhaps :hihi:
Oh yeah. Let's use the blue inputs hihi.

An easy "fix" would be to put 1 dot aside each slider.
The first dot is placed at the top of the slider which has the lowest pitch once set to its maximum position.
This one would be the highest note on the scale and all other dots would relate to this note (visually all these dots with then be lower than the first one). I hope you understand what I mean.

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Post by batchas » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:40 am

batchas wrote:An easy "fix" would be to put 1 dot aside each slider
Ok, I did it extemporary quickly here. Obv. the top right slider has the lowest pitch when in top position.

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Post by batchas » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:12 pm

I just played a few mins with the Sidrax :omg:
You start to plug 2 bananas and you don't need the dots shown in the previous post anymore. No need either to know what I higher what is lower :hihi:

A lot of fun and weird sounds in perspective...

Oh and this thing loves to be stroked too.

It's so tactile. Awesome. I love it :sb:

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Post by dogoftears » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:57 pm

batchas wrote:I just played a few mins with the Sidrax :omg:
You start to plug 2 bananas and you don't need the dots shown in the previous post anymore. No need either to know what I higher what is lower :hihi:

A lot of fun and weird sounds in perspective...

Oh and this thing loves to be stroked too.

It's so tactile. Awesome. I love it :sb:
yeah that's the thing, as soon as you start to patch your "tunings" will be changed. it's a wild beast. remember the original just had buttons for each barre that would select a completely random pitch out of the *full range* of frequencies... in a way the tuning sliders limit the organ a bit, cus you only get tunings within a few octaves of the master pitch knob. it was very nice on the sidrassi organ to have ultrasounds mixed with critical band tones mixed with low bass or LFO range stuff. also the capacitance of the sample and held note would discharge after a while, and you would hear this beautiful slow detuning of the instrument until you pressed the buttons again.
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Post by batchas » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:54 am

dogoftears wrote:
batchas wrote:it was very nice on the sidrassi organ to have ultrasounds mixed with critical band tones mixed with low bass or LFO range stuff. also the capacitance of the sample and held note would discharge after a while, and you would hear this beautiful slow detuning of the instrument until you pressed the buttons again.
Sounds like poetry!

So yesterday I was checking the in/outs. A bit confused first by the grey colour which is here an in, not an out like on the cocoquantus or the plumbutter, but it's clearly placed, so the risk to confuse in & out is minimal. And I recorded for me quickly these first mins with the Sidrax (so I can see in a few months or years where this voyage took me), but it's only the camera mic, so we don't hear the subtilities of the fine stroking. Great potential in this machine and I think it's a nice addition to the Coco+PB duo.
[video][/video]
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Post by jimmie » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:16 pm

That's good :sb:
I really wish there were attenuators for those grey inputs (or even mute/kill switch for the inputs)

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Post by ClausF » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:16 am

jimmie wrote:I really wish there were attenuators for those grey inputs (or even mute/kill switch for the inputs)
Look here in the DIY section, this is very easy to build, maybe in an cigar box what fits well to the CL instruments... For attenuators you have to check the best way to go: with ground or without, Pugix here has this on his website

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Post by jimmie » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:02 am

ClausF wrote:
jimmie wrote:I really wish there were attenuators for those grey inputs (or even mute/kill switch for the inputs)
Look here in the DIY section, this is very easy to build, maybe in an cigar box what fits well to the CL instruments... For attenuators you have to check the best way to go: with ground or without, Pugix here has this on his website
wish I had attenuator knobs right next to the grey jacks... I suspect it'd be an uneasy surgery.. :ripbanana:

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Post by papercutnoise » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:30 am

jimmie wrote:
ClausF wrote:
jimmie wrote:I really wish there were attenuators for those grey inputs (or even mute/kill switch for the inputs)
Look here in the DIY section, this is very easy to build, maybe in an cigar box what fits well to the CL instruments... For attenuators you have to check the best way to go: with ground or without, Pugix here has this on his website
wish I had attenuator knobs right next to the grey jacks... I suspect it'd be an uneasy surgery.. :ripbanana:

It would! Try soldering banana jacks to a 1m pot. One to the centre lug and the other to either of the outer lugs. No need for anything to be sent to ground.

I plan to build a little box with a couple of attenuators, a couple of switches and possibly a few buttons for making temporary connections.
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Post by dogoftears » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:44 am

every time i have tried to use an attenuator or other basic synth utility with CL gear, it just *doesn't work*... responds in unpredictable ways... which is pretty weird for just an attenuator!
YMMV...
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Post by shortsleeves » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:51 am

dogoftears wrote:every time i have tried to use an attenuator or other basic synth utility with CL gear, it just *doesn't work*... responds in unpredictable ways... which is pretty weird for just an attenuator!
YMMV...
You need to connect grounds. Otherwise, it doesn't work. I know, I tried.

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Post by drwiener » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:52 pm

one thought about the position of the bars could be dependent on where the right knob is set. If it is not all the way to the left, then chaos is starting to happen (which combines all the slider settings together to create chaos)

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