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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

A serious discussion about the new Moog IIIP and 960 SEQ
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author A serious discussion about the new Moog IIIP and 960 SEQ
Analog Music
I started a new topic (please forgive me) on this because the other thread seemed to talk about everything but the Moog IIIP or everything that was better or cheaper which is fine but I really would like to know more about this synth besides it being overpriced hmmm..... .
For starters I would like to know more about
-what makes it special besides the Moog logo
-984 matrix mixer , isn't it really a 4 channel analog mixer with sends and
returns. (is that awesome or no big deal)
-Built , is there anything special about the way these are made ,
I've heard that the portable versions have a special something about there
sound , grit power or what have you
that the larger versions don't have that can't be quite explained.
-Historical significance and future value and reflection .
-Expansion possibilities with other 5U modules or even eurorack (modulation)
-Spiritual reflections aka why do we love Moog and why are there so many
anti-Moog people
- Why so many choose to clone this very old synth even with the aesthetics
- So many great clones why own a new IIIP
-905 Spring Reverb tell me about it , whats inside how does it sound
- 901 oscillator how could it sound better if the 921 was an improvement
- 901 oscillator out of tune drift is a feature seriously, i just don't get it yes no maybe , do tell
- Sound possibilities vs model 15
- IIIP workflow tell me about it
- Portable would you do a live show with this
- 100% discrete design (no op-amps ) so what , why is this important
- Gearslutz IIIp thread closed why
- Moog paradigm philosophy
- anything else etc.......

Moog gives a Warning : Combine Overwatch IMPORTANT NOTE: A new Synthesizer IIIp is built exactly as the originals. It also behaves exactly as the originals, which means tuning instability and susceptibility to interference is inherent to the design.
Translate this please good bad or feature ?

Rex Coil 7
Tell ya what .... I'll just observe as this stick of dynamite is lit......................

...... From a great distance.

Forumcat #1

Guinness ftw!
Synthoholic
The 984 will give one some tone shaping capabilities. I use my moslab to boost the bass to accommodate for the low end losses in a resonant LPF. Other members have chimed in about the 984 as an excellent routing device, eliminating a lot of patching.

Having a complete system like this is going to be easier to deal with issues that crop up when mixing manufacturers that those of us with zero DIY skills have to sometimes deal with. Issues like power supply interferences, ground issues, etc.

Future value is just going to be speculative. Moog 15s have already seen quite a decline in price on the second hand market.

I think the IIIP/C is an overall better system than a 55 but the ideal would be to have a hybrid of both. That is, the sound the 901s (their imperfections as a feature is discussed ad nauseam concerning the Moslab and Synth-Werk versions), the features of the 921s, the extra oscillators on the 3p, the extra envelopes and vcas on the 55, the benefit of sequencers and the 984, the 914 and the 904c and an extra CP mixer of the 3p. This continues to illustrate that the custom system is the superior way to go.

Compatibility issues with other 5u and eurorack have also been addressed numerous times. Modulation with 5u won't be a problem but Moogs will probably have to be boosted to work with other devices in the audio realm. Eurorack will probably have to cut their modulation voltages down to Moog's specs. Others here know more about the specifics than I do about all that.

You probably want to avoid why people love and hate Moog if you want to avoid the conversations about why other manufacturers are better and keep it honed in on the 3p itself.

I think that so many want to clone the Moogs because the layout is fabulous, the CP row is extraordinarily useful from a performance setting. The sound set the standards, and then there's probably a desire to surround ourselves with cabinets like Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze. The workflow of the patching with the CP mixers and the 984 is very logical but from what I understand the Moogs aren't like the clones and you can see that discussion unfold here:

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14247&hilit=mixer

I'd never do a live show with that. If I had the money for that, I'd have a duplicate clone system for a fraction of the price to do live stuff with. I don't perform live anyway unfortunately. Start performing live with a modular and it's easy to see why Tangerine Dream or JMJ had so many synths because one almost needs a whole system per song to transition seamlessly.

I think that it should have been up to the customer as to whether or not the Cinch-Jones was retained.



Here's my configuration because mine was built around a 3p/55. The only thing that's missing from the current setup is the Source of Uncertainty.




CZ Rider
I have most of the original 900 series modules in my system. So I have some idea what the IIIP tone is about.
It is a really nice synthesizer that for me just gets those drop jaw tones. It sounds monstrous sometimes, just incredible.
Here is my system and a sample of what I was playing a few moments ago. Just two 901 ocsillstors with a mix of triangle and saw waves. Being filtered by the 904 set dialing in countless tones via the 904C in bandpass mode. Uses three 911 envelopes and a 982 final output mixer cranked a bit.


The sound is worth 1000 words describing it. Sometimes it just sounds Iike it spits fire out the speakers. Pure electricity.
HowDoIKnow
CZ Rider wrote:
......'snip'

The sound is worth 1000 words describing it. Sometimes it just sounds Iike it spits fire out the speakers. Pure electricity.

Nothing Short Of Incredible we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

hdik
AKMORSY
HowDoIKnow wrote:
CZ Rider wrote:
......'snip'

The sound is worth 1000 words describing it. Sometimes it just sounds Iike it spits fire out the speakers. Pure electricity.

Nothing Short Of Incredible we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

hdik


Agreed, sounds fantastic. May I ask what you are using as the sequencer (the 960?) and for the string washes?
hsosdrum
HowDoIKnow wrote:
CZ Rider wrote:
......'snip'

The sound is worth 1000 words describing it. Sometimes it just sounds Iike it spits fire out the speakers. Pure electricity.

Nothing Short Of Incredible we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

hdik


1000% Agreed. Friggin' awesome, CZ Rider!
Peake
Obvious troll OP is obvious.
hsosdrum
Peake wrote:
Obvious troll OP is obvious.


I was in the middle of typing the following when I was called away, and when I returned, you (Peake) had already posted the above.

"To the OP: If CZ Rider's thoughtful and substantive post has not answered all of your questions about the Moog IIIP (or IIIC), go into your bathroom and look into the mirror. The reflection you see will be that of a troll."
CZ Rider
Glad I was able to share my experimenting with the 904C in band pass mode.
Was able to go back this morning and work a bit on the patch. Had some issues with my counter, so patched a second Q960 as the counter. Plays a 4 note sequence 16 times then switches to one of the three rows
String machine is my old Sound blaster AWE. I do my own Soundfonts for both pads and Mellotron samples.
Thanks for letting me share my fun this weekend. Always an experience to take the old Moog out for ride to wherever it goes. That bandpass is wild, sounds like the sequence gets sucked through another dimension and turned inside out. Puts a smile on my face.
Here is what the patch looked like through my blurry phone:


Jammed today and recorded about an hour and ten minutes. Will take the best of moments and make a track out of them. Delibertly did not play any solos over top planning to add them later.
An exerpt from today's jam.
Analog Music
Peake wrote:
Obvious troll OP is obvious.

Why based off of what , I'm just a fan an enthusiast a synth lover .
Look at the incredible piece of music CZ just blessed us with .
Please don't ruin this thread with negativity lets stay positive maybe just a misunderstanding .
Analog Music
duplicate
sduck
I'm not seeing any "troll" type behavior (speaking as a moderator who sometimes has to deal with such) but this thread could just as easily happened in the original thread, and would have made more sense there.
Analog Music
CZ Rider wrote:


The sound is worth 1000 words describing it. Sometimes it just sounds Iike it spits fire out the speakers. Pure electricity.

Best quote I ever hear about a Moog .
Analog Music
duplicate
Analog Music
CZ Rider wrote:

It is a really nice synthesizer that for me just gets those drop jaw tones. It sounds monstrous sometimes, just incredible.

The sound is worth 1000 words describing it. Sometimes it just sounds Iike it spits fire out the speakers. Pure electricity.

Wonderful you must have great converters as well .
How do you get your sequences to flow so smoothly are you using the Moog 960 with delay ?[/quote]
Analog Music
sduck wrote:
I'm not seeing any "troll" type behavior (speaking as a moderator who sometimes has to deal with such) but this thread could just as easily happened in the original thread, and would have made more sense there.

Right , I explained the reason why I started a new thread because I just wanted to know more about this reissue by Moog but the other thread seemed to turn into something else . I thought by being more direct it would help but maybe thats just the nature of the forums that threads take turns and dip off sometime and hopefully come back . I understand if you want to close it .
CZ Rider
Analog Music wrote:

Wonderful you must have great converters as well .
How do you get your sequences to flow so smoothly are you using the Moog 960 with delay ?

Using a dotcom Q960/962 sequencer compliment to fire the Moog. Have a line 6 echopro rack for the delay. Big part of that sound. All dialed in by ear adjusting the Q960 clock to kick off the echoes. The Moog is playing half as fast as it sounds with the echoes filling in between. If I turned the echo off you might be disappointed in what the Moog sounds like dry.
Using mostly WIN95 stuff to record with a Lexicon core 32 for the converter.
Analog Music
CZ Rider wrote:
Analog Music wrote:

Wonderful you must have great converters as well .
How do you get your sequences to flow so smoothly are you using the Moog 960 with delay ?

Using a dotcom Q960/962 sequencer compliment to fire the Moog. Have a line 6 echopro rack for the delay. Big part of that sound. All dialed in by ear adjusting the Q960 clock to kick off the echoes. The Moog is playing half as fast as it sounds with the echoes filling in between. If I turned the echo off you might be disappointed in what the Moog sounds like dry.
Using mostly WIN95 stuff to record with a Lexicon core 32 for the converter.

Great , you have the sound and the vibe of the legends . Start with a simple sequence and let it develop from there seems to be idea for this vibe , interesting you do it by ear pure talent .
kindredlost
Really good stuff CZ!
noddyspuncture
CZ Rider wrote:
so patched a second Q960 as the counter. Plays a 4 note sequence 16 times then switches to one of the three rows.

Puts a smile on my face.


It does sound quite amazing. Could listen to it for hours...!

But I'm still trying to get my head around this Terry.... I know audio-wise it all sounds more complicated than it is - and I read your description about 16 x 4 note sequences and I can follow and hear that.

But what I'm confused about is the modules needed and the patching. How you actually get those sequential switches to play a 4 note pattern 16 times and then switch to the next one. Are you using just 4 steps of one row, 16 times and then moving to another row...?

Then I assume it all goes round again in a circle and starts over..?

Do you need 2x Q960's and also multiple 962's to do it..? I only have one of each but if I understood it all I'd probably get more... would like to try that same smile you mentioned myself...smile

Any chance it could be drawn out so it's easy to follow please..?
I'd like to learn and understand.

Cheers,
Tom
CZ Rider
noddyspuncture wrote:


Any chance it could be drawn out so it's easy to follow please..?
I'd like to learn and understand.

Sure Tom!
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words too.


You could always DIY a counter to take the place of the extra 960/962. But this would be a patch that could be done on the Moog portable sequencer complement.

Fun part using 4 note sequences is you can dial in new/different sequences by skipping and adding different steps live. So if 1234 gets boring any combo can be quickly dialed in like 1235 or 1256 and so on.
HowDoIKnow
CZ Rider wrote:
noddyspuncture wrote:


Any chance it could be drawn out so it's easy to follow please..?
I'd like to learn and understand.

Sure Tom!
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words too.


You could always DIY a counter to take the place of the extra 960/962. But this would be a patch that could be done on the Moog portable sequencer complement.

Fun part using 4 note sequences is you can dial in new/different sequences by skipping and adding different steps live. So if 1234 gets boring any combo can be quickly dialed in like 1235 or 1256 and so on.


Very clever....and a great track in the making as well!
Many thanks. applause

hdik
noddyspuncture
CZ Rider wrote:
noddyspuncture wrote:


Any chance it could be drawn out so it's easy to follow please..?
I'd like to learn and understand.

Sure Tom!
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words too.


OK, I got it. Took a while to sink in - but after examining it for a while I understood all of a sudden...!

Many thanks Terry... seems I'd never completely understood those three trigger outputs on the 962....!

Cheers,
Tom
Analog Music
CZ Rider wrote:
noddyspuncture wrote:


Any chance it could be drawn out so it's easy to follow please..?
I'd like to learn and understand.

Sure Tom!
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words too.


You could always DIY a counter to take the place of the extra 960/962. But this would be a patch that could be done on the Moog portable sequencer complement.

Fun part using 4 note sequences is you can dial in new/different sequences by skipping and adding different steps live. So if 1234 gets boring any combo can be quickly dialed in like 1235 or 1256 and so on.
applause
Is the reset feature on the DotCom q960 essential for this ?
Can it be done on original Moog 960 which doesn't have reset feature ?
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