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5u modules with control of oscillator phase
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author 5u modules with control of oscillator phase
BudgetInfinity
I believe Mutable instruments Braids can do this.. any others?
josaka
any modules with PW/M .. which is most oscillators.. smile
JohnLRice
josaka wrote:
any modules with PW/M .. which is most oscillators.. smile
I wouldn't consider PWM the same as phase modulation? hmmm..... I know it may sound similar at times but with PWM the phase is always the same. spinning
kindredlost
cool Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with a scope yet but that doesn't stop me from spewing hypothetical notions...

Isn't "SOFT SYNC" a form of phase-lock-loop with drift? Isn't the difference between hard sync and soft sync a matter of WHEN and HOW MUCH the phase locking occurs?

If I understand it right there is a sync at the times when the phase of the driver (master) oscillator locks in with the driven (slave) oscillator. The slave waveform can have drive effects from the master integrated in to it's waveform but the "sync sound" happens only when the phases line up.

If all that is correct (speculative I'll admit) then the Q106 is capable of phase shifting to a degree, albeit with little to no control. Only the amount of driver input to the slave waveform is allowed for soft sync on the Q106.

Perhaps someone with a greater understanding of the Q106 can help. Our own Bryan Benting has made the triple soft sync module for the Q106 and it is a lot of fun if you have an array of them. I have modified a couple of mine for soft sync in place of the linear input. Just a jumper placement change as the Q106 has soft sync as a hidden feature already.

Anyway, I think you may be right about none of them having phase control. A PLL type of vco would be welcomed to this format.
ranix
Phase modulation via PWM

hihi SlayerBadger!

https://my.mixtape.moe/ljvark.mp4
JohnLRice
ranix wrote:
Phase modulation via PWM

hihi SlayerBadger!

https://my.mixtape.moe/ljvark.mp4
jawdrop Well all be damned! thumbs up
MrNezumi
Stroh has both a phase modulation VCO, the Operator, and a PLL-able one, the Dual Mirror Core. Both are roll your own DYI modules; pcb boards available at Synthcube.
JohnLRice
BudgetInfinity wrote:
I believe Mutable instruments Braids can do this.. any others?
And in case you didn't know, FreeState FX makes a 5U version of Braids:
https://www.freestatefx.com/collections/free-state-fx-modules/products  /101

Not controllable that I know of but Marienberg Devices makes the VC Sine Phase Oscillator that has multiple and simultaneous phase outputs:
http://marienbergdevices.de/modular/uebersicht/vco-sine/

Krisp1 has the OCTO Quadrature LFO that has multiple simultaneous phase outputs:
http://www.krisp1.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&p roducts_id=108
Dob
Doesn't the Morphing Terrarium allow phase control over CV?
(I have one in MOTM format)

Not that I ever used it... But I should. Maybe tomorrow applause
Dob
Ah yes it does, but it's normally hidden under jumper control. My build exposes the jumper controlled settings on the front panel.
eskimo99
The MOTM Morphing Terrarium does!!!

You can use a mod wheel to the phase adjust input. Or better yet the Y axis from a Continuum Fingerboard.

The Z output is the “centered” wave and the XY output becomes the “phased” output.

Both signals then need to be mixed at the exact level in order to bear the full effect
Flareless
Dob wrote:
Ah yes it does, but it's normally hidden under jumper control. My build exposes the jumper controlled settings on the front panel.


Many of my builds do as well. What the hell is up with this use of jumpers. Most folks never get to fully explore some modules capabilities for lack of changing a jumper.

Switches are so much more fun and clickier!
J3RK
MrNezumi wrote:
Stroh has both a phase modulation VCO, the Operator, and a PLL-able one, the Dual Mirror Core. Both are roll your own DYI modules; pcb boards available at Synthcube.


The Operator is very 5U friendly. I'd also be happy to whip up an FPD file for it for a 5U panel if anyone would find that useful.
burdij
ranix wrote:
Phase modulation via PWM

hihi SlayerBadger!

https://my.mixtape.moe/ljvark.mp4


Probably not a true phase control. The two oscillators in this example are tuned very closely together and the frequency is not being externally controlled so the hard sync is holding them enough in phase so that changing the position of the hard sync pulse gives the illusion of a phase control. This would not work well if it was necessary to change the frequency of the carrier unless both oscillators tracked each other closely.

The Moog 921 oscillator module with soft sync input will allow phase locking of two oscillators as the soft sync (using the LM1496 balanced modulator) is actually a 1:1 PLL. It would require some external modules, I think, to provide phase control or phase modulation via CV. I don't believe the soft sync on a Q106 will allow a phase lock relationship to be established because there is no feedback to the frequency control input of the phase difference information and as one person mentioned, there is no way to control the locking phase.
Dave Peck
If an oscillator's hard sync will lock to any rising voltage passing the zero volt line (like will it lock to an upward sloping saw wave? Or does it need a vertical wavefront like from a square wave?) then this osc can do variable phase just by adding a DC coupled mixer between the sync source osc and the sync'd osc:

Instead of patching your upwards saw wave (the 'sync source') directly to the sync input of the sync'd osc, patch it to one input of the mixer, and patch the mixer output to the Sync input.

Now when you add any kind of control voltage to another input on the mixer, like a slow LFO sine, it will combine with the saw and the mixer output will give you a saw wave that is slowing being 'biased' positive and negative by the LFO. This moves the saw wave's 'zero crossing' point along the diagonal upward ramp of the waveform, from near the start of the ramp to near the end of the ramp. This in turn causes the sync'd osc to alter it's phase relative to the original saw wave. Viola!
BudgetInfinity
I don’t mean modulate as in PWM, I mean control where the oscillator begins when synced via a reset input. I’ve seen this in soft synths like sylenth where the osc phase can be offset by 90, 180, 270 degrees and presicely controlled to reset on key input from the given start point.
ranix
that's what I was showing in my example above

take the inverted pulse output of one oscillator and send it to the hard sync input of the second oscillator and you have control of the phase discrepancy via the PWM knob.

if you need exact 90 degree relationships, an oscilloscope is a perfect tool for using to tune them. X/Y mode will show a perfect circle if they are 90 degrees out of phase and the other states are easy to intuit by looking at the shapes

the weakness of this technique is that the oscillators desynchronize at 0 degrees
Dave Peck
I see what budget infinity is asking for now - he's not asking about varying the phase of the sync'd osc relative to the sync source osc, he's asking about varying the retrigger point along the length of the waveform of the sync'd osc when it retriggers: for example if the sync osc is outputing a saw wave, when it gets a trigger at the sync input jack, does it restart at it's zero crossing point, half-way up the ramp? at it's highest point, +5V at the end of the ramp? at it's lowest point, -5V at the start of the ramp?

The retrigger point can have a big impact on the sound. I know of digital oscs that offer this variable retrigger phase when hard sync'd but I don't know of an analog osc that does this.
josaka
Dave Peck wrote:
I see what budget infinity is asking for now - he's not asking about varying the phase of the sync'd osc relative to the sync source osc, he's asking about varying the retrigger point along the length of the waveform of the sync'd osc when it retriggers: for example if the sync osc is outputing a saw wave, when it gets a trigger at the sync input jack, does it restart at it's zero crossing point, half-way up the ramp? at it's highest point, +5V at the end of the ramp? at it's lowest point, -5V at the start of the ramp?

The retrigger point can have a big impact on the sound. I know of digital oscs that offer this variable retrigger phase when hard sync'd but I don't know of an analog osc that does this.


...not sure but could you do that with the krisp 1 TZ edge sync ?
(the oakley MM osc does too)

sersch
Dave Peck wrote:
The retrigger point can have a big impact on the sound. I know of digital oscs that offer this variable retrigger phase when hard sync'd but I don't know of an analog osc that does this.

The Moog 921 does this via its Clamping function.
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