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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Again a question about Sidrax
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Ciat-Lonbarde  
Author Again a question about Sidrax
batchas
In another post I mentionned all was glued on the Sidrax, pcb, wood etc, so no way to look inside and I'm not getting the full picture.
I plugged the Sidrax again 2 days ago after a while after receiving it. I wanted to check it with PB1 and Coco2.

Today I had to plug the headphones to it so it's not connected to the mixer or something powered externally, cause I'm not sure it's acting weird or not.
I noticed press is left, release is right in the headphones. Okay. I did not know. Corresponds to each orange outout pairs, ok, I get that.

But I kind of have some issue with the way it works, I am not sure I am not missing something...
I thought each bar was triggering an oscillator, but if you look at the video it sounds like if it was patched, but I have nothing patched on it. And the chaos knob is full CCW.
I am not moving my finger when I press it. The sound just always stops soon after my finger presses a bar, then seems like modulated while disappearing.
By releasing the bar I now understand it is again triggered, ok, that's not the "issue".
I tried with the power supply of Coco, then PB1's one, same results.
When you look at my video, you think yours acts like that to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGJkjTt-wpQ

Maybe we see/hear better here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2laevizQoZU


EDIT:
Quote:
I am not moving my finger when I press it. The sound just always stops soon after my finger presses a bar, then seems like modulated while disappearing.

I was asking it is was an issue. The answer: no it is not an issue, it is normal. No need to worry. It's the nature of the circuit with the piezo.
batchas
hmmm..... It's funny how on a stressful day I react to this.
I had a few issues on other gear (real issues this time) which I could resolve but it kind of coloured the day, making me unsure with the Sidrax, even nervous, as I never used it much (turned it on 2 times before).

My guess is that everything is just NORMAL and is meant to be like it is.

I'll leave the post, if anyone wonders...
sungja
Send it back to peter or open it up. You mentioned in other thread it was glued together? What do you mean? The sandwich is glued together and removing the screws wont open it up? That does not seem right. I had many issues with my old sidrassi bars and had to replace broken piezos 3 times. My tetrax bars fall off when removing the screws and i can desolder the piezo and replace if needed. Good luck!
sungja
Also how you soldr the piezo determine right left press release i believe.
jimmie
mine sometimes behaves like that, to some extent. Sometimes a tone doesn't stop after releasing the bar, sometimes it feels unresponsive to pressure, or nearby bar is registered even if it is not pressed, etc.
Piezo disks glued to the thin wood bars is not a precise instrument in the end so I take this as normal.
Adjusting the screws which fixes bars, not too tight or too loose, may improve overal behavior. Be mind, the piezo thing is very very sensitive by the way, so if you handle the instrument sorta rough like in the video, the condition of bar response will easily be lost or changed.
Hainbach
Obvious, but have you swapped cables? If it triggers on touch there is little reason it should not trigger on off.
batchas
Hainbach wrote:
Obvious, but have you swapped cables? If it triggers on touch there is little reason it should not trigger on off.

We don't hear the release sound because of a bad cable. I realised after testing with the headphones, hearing for the first time that by releasing the bar, a sound was triggered. I did not know that before.

I understand only now your post. I thought you were talking about bananas patch cables and I wanted to comment "nothing is plugged" d'oh!

For now I'm using adapters to get stereo-to-mono into each input of an effect pedal, but I might be wiser to take an additional pedal, for better effect control, so each box has its own dedicated pedal. Not sure. Still need to check the setup anyway as I want to take as less as possible, to reduce the size of the all.
There's so much to do with only the Plumbutter or only the Coco... I have a few days to decide before playing live.

Actually I was concerned in my first post about the fact that the sound stops, even without moving, nor removing the finger from the bar. It's because I thought pressing would open a vca. I didn't know about the release (as I never had the left channel due to the cable I used). But it looks like it's more acting like an envelope instead.
I'll check online to see schematics, so I can understand how it's done. And stop worrying haha!
batchas
sungja wrote:
The sandwich is glued together and removing the screws wont open it up? That does not seem right.

It's stupid I write so quickly in a hurry between 10 different activities and don't explain, I'm sorry.

The bars can be unscrewed but nothing below. Circuit etc is hidden behind and the board seems to be glued to the wood. Same on the coco, but the bananas might also hold everything. I should invest more time actually looking in detail how it's done.
Anyway I'll start when I have time for this with schematics, as I guess these are online like rolz and so on.
batchas
As for the volume main control I wanted to add to the Sidrax (and can't mod it because of the sandwich): I thought I'd put a pot externally, making a tiny box I started to do yesterday.
But as I was writing my previous post here, I realised it would not be necessary anymore if I decide to add a dedicated effect pedal to the Sidrax, which aumotatically adds a volume control to signal flow.
sungja
It is only possible to open the base from the circuit board. If you need to access the other side of the board all bananas need to be desoldered. Glad to hear it was only a bad cable.
chrisdermo
I have this issue with my Tetrax sometimes (let go of a barre and the note keeps playing) - normally if I tap the barre it stops, i guess the piezo glued under the wood is slowly flexing back to it's 0 position sometimes. As mentioned - piezos glued to wood aren't a very precise instrument! I like these quirks though. I made some recordings outside on a windy day and the gusts were strong enough to trigger notes like wind blowing through a harmonica hihi
shortsleeves
I only have a Tetrax, so YMMV, but these instruments are very sensitive to the way you play. I mean – you have to learn them, feel them first, before achieving any kind of repeatability of results. Not everything is clear from your videos, unfortunately (e.g. I'm not sure when you're actually pressing the bar).

Also, you seem to be pressing the bars too close to the sliders (too high). Piezos are glued right above the screws.

Also number 2, in order to achieve a sustained (well, sort of) sound, you have to keep on pressing the bar. It's not like you're opening a gate with the first touch, and closing it by releasing the bar. You have to press the bar like you would be pressing a string to the fretboard of a guitar.

Cheers,
Lukasz
batchas
shortsleeves wrote:
Also number 2, in order to achieve a sustained (well, sort of) sound, you have to keep on pressing the bar.

Thanx Lukasz.
This is exactly what I was concerned with and did not achieve obv. to show in my video nor in my questions. Which learns me that I should take more time before I post.

My finger remains pressed, but the sound stops.

The question about release, faulty cable etc came after a comment and is not related, as I was only concerned by the fact that it stops while I am pressing and not moving at all (very important) my finger.

Anyway if you have a video with number 2, where I see the note is sustained while keeping pressing, than it means mine is not acting like yours or the way I expected it to work.
batchas
chrisdermo wrote:
I have this issue with my Tetrax sometimes (let go of a barre and the note keeps playing) - normally if I tap the barre it stops, i guess the piezo glued under the wood is slowly flexing back to it's 0 position sometimes. As mentioned - piezos glued to wood aren't a very precise instrument! I like these quirks though. I made some recordings outside on a windy day and the gusts were strong enough to trigger notes like wind blowing through a harmonica hihi

That's exactly what happened yesterday while I was in the garden. Point by point.
I love the concept of this machine (of all Ciat machines without exception tbh).
batchas
batchas wrote:
This is exactly what I was concerned with and did not achieve obv. to show in my video nor in my questions. Which learns me that I should take more time before I post.

Starting with not recording on this old iphone, but with my HD camera.
And also takes a minute to think how to formulate it the best way in english.


batchas wrote:
My finger remains pressed, but the sound stops.

Actually what arose my question and made me open this thread it not only the fact that it does stop WHILE I AM STILL PRESSING the bar, but more important the fact that the sound fades out quickly and ends after 3 or 4 secs in a kind of noisy modulated signal.

Maybe now that I changed the cable and then also get to hear the release signal, I will not hear the sound fading out in a kind of modulated noise, but instead will hear the release sound (means the sound will not stop so fast), but either way it means that that sound is not sustained WHILE I am pressing a bar.
Not that it has to work "prefectly", "accurately", but I needed to know.
After all comments, I am still not sure.
First because we talked about the release part while I was focusing on the press part (it's good this question was addressed like any other, I appreciate all comments!!!) and second because of Lukasz comment which says the sound is sustained as long as the bar is pressed (Lukasz, man your comment is killing me hihi ).
sungja
You have to keep pressing to make sound. That is why you should start at very little pressure if you want to have a longer press sound. Release behave same way and is even more difficult to control.
jimmie
try to adjust the screws of the bars (just slightly loose or tight) - isolating a problematic bar from neighbors - as I said several post ago. Making a continuous constant sound on a bar requires some technique and condition of the bar, and it's not too easy after all. the release is trickier than press, and as mentioned above sometimes a hard hit (not too hard) to a bar can 'resets' the release which is persistent otherwise. this makes sometimes hard on utilizing release banana but I live with it.
chrisdermo
Hey Robert - it's not so much you have to keep pressing, more that the barre has to continuously be in a flexing - movement for the sound to be continuous. I.e. you can press all the way to maximum flex, and still be pressing on the barre, but if it is no longer moving / flexing then the sound will go silent.
The other way to get a continuous note is to have both left and right channels panned to the same position and gently press and release continuously like a violin string being bowed back and forth.
thebends9
I never thought of panning both channels the same direction, going to give that a spin. Thanks for the suggestion
batchas
Thanks again for all comments.
My question was: is it normal that the sound stops while keeping the finger pressed on a bar.
The answer is yes.
I'll update the op.
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