Update: 8 16bit cv outputs from computer!

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wetterberg
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Update: 8 16bit cv outputs from computer!

Post by wetterberg » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:30 am

Alright, so this has been the holy grail for me in terms of modular synth+computer integration, and I had all but given up:

my fa-101 has DC blocking capacitors (and I'm not overly keen on hacking it ;) ) and my 828mk1 had been bricked by horrible drivers...

I had even started looking into weird OSC->CV solutions, and had cash in hand, ready to buy the Kenton Pro 2000, which is expensive, and still only runs at midi resolution.

Well, now things have changed! I magically got the 828mk1 to WORK and I speedily set up a test rig to see what I could get out of the unit.

IT WORKS! Oh my GAWD this is so cool! I have a 4-way step sequencer, a fully synced ADSR and an LFO modulating an LFO, coming out of 5 different outputs, and as far as I can tell the voltage is REALLY high - good enough to do proper pitch scaling and so on - this RULES! It also happily generates trigger outputs, although I am going to build a trigger interface instead.

So - what does it sound like?
http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/828_modulator.mp3
(sorry for the crummy recording, weird interference on my recorder... wasn't there when monitoring directly, grumble)

What's going on?
the patch is 110 VCO->116 waveform processor->106-1 Xtreme filter

Computer is step sequencing PWM, clipping and symmetry CV and filter cutoff. Not too fancy, just enough for me to play around. Manually adjusting resonance and levels. adsr is going to the filter (yes, that's right, I'm not using an adsr in my modular!) and the lfo-modulated-lfo is controlling the filter as well. both lfos are sinewaves, and going into audio range is so damned easy.

The sequencer patch was just thrown together quickly - every 8 bars all 4 8-step sequencers are randomly set. But the results are surprisingly funky, if you ask me. I'm looking forward to attempting something sequenced on my Lemur! :o
What does it look like?
Image

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Soy Sos
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Post by Soy Sos » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:33 am

Hell yes!! Great work! I have Max/MSP and got very put off the path and kind of gave up. This should be good reason to give it another push. AND I have the same 828 you have. I guess you get 3 of these:

:sb: :sb: :sb:

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Post by zerosum » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:32 pm

Damn that is really really cool 8)

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:53 pm

Awesome!!! :sb: :party:

I see you're running Max5. :)

I like the round corners now.

I've been thinking about some sort of master clock/control hub, and I keep thinking Max would be the easiest most controllable, repeatable way. Congrats dude, I gotta get back to using Max with the modular too.

Nice to know the 828mk1 can send low frequency outputs too! 8)

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Post by Suburban Bather » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:43 pm

Dammit Andreas! stop making me gas over software I don't want to buy :wink:

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Post by amnesia » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:59 pm

is this doable with other sound cards? i have a presonus firepod can you send us the max file please

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Post by flts » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:15 pm

amnesia wrote:is this doable with other sound cards? i have a presonus firepod can you send us the max file please
Any sound cards that don't have DC blocking capacitors in their output stages should do at least passably. Lots of audio interfaces have those though, but you can try out yourself.

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Post by Scaff » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:19 pm

yeah, please post a link to the file. Great Job! :hail:

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wetterberg
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Post by wetterberg » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:42 pm

I say that if you have an aging audio interface and this *doesn't* work, and some soldering skills then open her up and short out the caps :twisted:

One thing that was unforeseen is that the DC on the outputs - and the flow of electricity back and forth between the modular and the 828 - made *recording* simultaneously on the 828 quite impossible, unfortunately. Otherwise I'd be half way done with a cv recorder already :bang: - still, can't beat it for unlimited sequencers, envelopes, lfos and other malarky.

http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/analog_test.maxpat
- here's the patch, in all it's modesty - a lot of fun, nonetheless - loading it up will definitely let you know if your interface is dc-coupled or not.

SUBURBAN BATHER!!! wtf are you doing here - are you stalking me, mr. Zombie Man? :guinness:

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Post by Suburban Bather » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:37 pm

wetterberg wrote:I say that if you have an aging audio interface and this *doesn't* work, and some soldering skills then open her up and short out the caps :twisted:

One thing that was unforeseen is that the DC on the outputs - and the flow of electricity back and forth between the modular and the 828 - made *recording* simultaneously on the 828 quite impossible, unfortunately. Otherwise I'd be half way done with a cv recorder already :bang: - still, can't beat it for unlimited sequencers, envelopes, lfos and other malarky.

http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/analog_test.maxpat
- here's the patch, in all it's modesty - a lot of fun, nonetheless - loading it up will definitely let you know if your interface is dc-coupled or not.

SUBURBAN BATHER!!! wtf are you doing here - are you stalking me, mr. Zombie Man? :guinness:
:lol:
During a recent and rare occasion of checking out the Ableton forum, I saw a link to this site. I have a 22space .com system and almost all of the Moogerfoogers(just need both murfs and the mp-201). I'm also thinking about starting a Euro Rack system and I want your B R A I N ZZZZZZ. So, here I am!

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Post by dkcg » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:22 pm

amnesia wrote:is this doable with other sound cards? i have a presonus firepod can you send us the max file please
I've seen used 828Mk1's as cheap as $150. :)

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Post by criticalmonkey » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:49 pm

i've been doing this with the motu 896 - I have no recording issues with it simultaneously - maybe because of the balanced connectors?
recently performed with it - really nice to have the sync control between gates, lfo's, etc
really pushing me in new directions -

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Post by wetterberg » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:56 pm

criticalmonkey wrote:i've been doing this with the motu 896 - I have no recording issues with it simultaneously - maybe because of the balanced connectors?
Good call! I'll have a go at going in balanced instead. erhm... but I don't have a di-box... Or do you just mean using a balanced connector at all?

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Post by futuresoundsystems » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:08 am

I'm severely tempted to hack my old Edirol interface now...
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Post by wetterberg » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:14 pm

futuresoundsystems wrote:I'm severely tempted to hack my old Edirol interface now...
you know, I am too, even though I found the 828 to work... it's just bridging a few caps... hmm.

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:29 pm

Another update:

I've finished installing my new modules today, and thought I'd see if I can scope out the tracking from my 828 into the famed doepfer a-110 vco.

well... suffice to say I get at least 5 octaves of PERFECT pitch, at least as well as I can measure it in a hurry.

I now have an 11*6 keyboard matrix laid out on the Lemur, maxMSP applying portamento, etc. I really hope I get a chance to record some video of this process tonight, it's turning out to be a LOT of fun.

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Post by cebec » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:01 pm

So, is it safe to say the 828 mk I works better for this than the mk II and no modification is required?

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:36 pm

yes, from what I've learned:

Descriptions of the mkII as "hacky" etc do NOT fit the mkI - it's like plug and play.

wonderful tracking, it generates trigger pulses at very high audio rates too...

I have band rehearsal in roughly 30 hours, going to try to sync it up with Live and so on.

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Post by dkcg » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:32 pm

wetterberg wrote:yes, from what I've learned:

Descriptions of the mkII as "hacky" etc do NOT fit the mkI - it's like plug and play.

wonderful tracking, it generates trigger pulses at very high audio rates too...

I have band rehearsal in roughly 30 hours, going to try to sync it up with Live and so on.
I may have to pick up a MK1 to check the difference. The Mk2 seemed kinda aliased on the scope, the LFO ramps were a little steppy, seemed to work better at higher resolutions, 96k was about twice as smooth as 48k, 44 was almost the same as 48. What sample rates are you using with the Mk1?

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:46 pm

uuuhhhmmm . . . I don't get it! :despair: What da heck is going on here!!!!!???? :?:

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Post by wetterberg » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:55 am

JohnLRice wrote:uuuhhhmmm . . . I don't get it! :despair: What da heck is going on here!!!!!???? :?:
Using computer audio interfaces to directly interface with a modular synthesizer. We have found that the 828mk1 (and at least in part mk2) can output relatively high voltage DC, so using software we can generate anything from LFOs to adsrs and sequencers, which can be run directly into cv inputs of a modular.

I hope that makes a bit of sense amidst all the geek-speak.

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Post by criticalmonkey » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:53 am

i'm going straight from xlr to 3.5 mm cv inputs and back I'm using a pre made 8 ch snake xlr to tip sleeve unbalanced with an adapter from 1/4 to the 3.5mm (1/8) - haven't bothered to look to closely at the wiring since it was stock to all my xlr to unbalanced - probably true for trs to unbalanced too

setting up the interface in their cuemix app was another trick - they tend to default stuff to in and out on 1 and 2 which messed with me for a bit

hey - have you been able to record cv back in consistently for playback? I can record but it requires a lot of tweaking to make sure what i record is what i wanted - preamp gain seems to be the secret
haven't tried to hard to solve the issue yet but wondering if you have had any luck

btw - grab the adsr tutorial patch in ax/msp and you'll have the most happening adsr ever - fast as the da converter and as slow as time can go - been having a blast with that - i'm thinking draw your own adsr or variable segments

possibilities are endless

I've kinda slowed up on my new dev since max 5 and pluggo support is not complete - thinking of rebuilding my performance environment entirely in max but gotta fine time and energy

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Post by criticalmonkey » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:57 am

btw - anybody wanting to give this a quick try - i made some really ugly bad vst plugins for demo purposes on criticalshit.com
gate/adsr/midi to cv using the audio interface/and an lfo - pluggo format so you'll need the runtime
great way to test your interface

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Post by goiks » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:24 pm

@wetterberg-

thanks for exploring and posting on this - please keep us posted on your experiences. had to add 828 to my saved searches. already have max. can't wait. and what are you planning on doing for triggers, you mentioned a module?

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Post by D/A A/D » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:34 pm

So cool.

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