Update: 8 16bit cv outputs from computer!

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

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JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:05 pm

Wow, really interesting stuff! I've got a MIDI interface on my computer and a MOTM-650 MIDI->CV converter so I don't think I'll take the time to explore this but . . .I finding it really interesting and impressively clever! 8)

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:46 am

goikem wrote:@wetterberg-

thanks for exploring and posting on this - please keep us posted on your experiences.
will do - lots of good things in the future for this rig, I do believe!

goikem wrote: had to add 828 to my saved searches. already have max. can't wait. and what are you planning on doing for triggers, you mentioned a module?
yeah, I did. I was originally going to build a midi to trigger system, and I still may, but for now the 828 is a perfect trigger system, too. I just find myself running out of outputs :)

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:58 am

criticalmonkey wrote:hey - have you been able to record cv back in consistently for playback?
haven't tried yet - I hope to install my dual joystick rig soon, which will give me a nice reason to start looping cv :)
btw - grab the adsr tutorial patch in ax/msp and you'll have the most happening adsr ever - fast as the da converter and as slow as time can go - been having a blast with that - i'm thinking draw your own adsr or variable segments
yeah, I have a great editor for [function] which is a really flexible breakpoint function editor. I can control it directly from my Lemur and use it as the most wobbly envelope ever.
possibilities are endless
aye.
criticalmonkey wrote:I've kinda slowed up on my new dev since max 5 and pluggo support is not complete - thinking of rebuilding my performance environment entirely in max but gotta fine time and energy
you know, I've been doing the same more or less, but I'm getting really ready to put at least 50% of my set directly in maxMSP, and have the rest in Ableton Live... I wish I could switch all the way, but it's not a realistic approach right now, I think.

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Post by dkcg » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:00 am

Sorta related to the CV output through an audio interface. CV to midi back into the computer. I think it's good enough for LFOs and slower envelopes.



Hopefully I'll have time and ambition enough soon to jump back into Max and make a nice modular processing/master control patch and finally get the best of both worlds. :)

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Post by criticalmonkey » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:37 am

cool
it would make for an interesting way to control software from a modular

i'm planning a straight cv recorder - it is easy to record but hard to calibrate so that what goes in matches what goes out - preamp issues
i think i'll have to make some sort of calibration meter - got to run a few tests to see what best to use as a calibration source - volt to hz maybe

it is fun just to record cv of random cv sources and then play it back - made performing a bit easier too

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Post by dkcg » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:30 am

Ultimately one of the uses I'd like to have with it are to control realtime Jitter or Isadora video/graphics, something along the lines of what Jack Dangers does. How sweet would it be to be able to trigger video clips/samples from the modular with an env gen?! :hyper:

But on an audio practical level, even things like controlling a pan with a LFO are possible, so I could send out mono signals and still have a stereo mix controlled by the modular. After my Max discovery last night of how to read the data, I started thinking about how the modular could control Max, and get an analog/digital hybrid feedback patch going where analog controls digital, and digital controls analog. :D :sb:

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Post by Soy Sos » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:30 pm

Wetterberg, you so fucking rule!
:sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: 5 SB for you!
I'm having so much fun, this second run at MaxMSP
has already be so much more successful because of
this patch. Thank you!!

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Post by Suburban Bather » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:44 pm

Soy Sos, what audio interface are you using? I've got an MH 2882. If it works, I just may have to purchase a copy of MAX.
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Post by Soy Sos » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:50 pm

Sequencer, ADSR + Scope!
Baby steps, I know...........
Image

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Post by Soy Sos » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:52 pm

It just so happens that I've been using the MOTU 828 for years.
So win win.......It's been working perfectly.

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Post by synthetic » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:14 pm

When I worked at Alesis, people used to remove the blocking capacitors from the outputs to generate CV for laser light shows. You should be able to modify any D/A converter to do this, it's a easy one to undo as well. Just remove one leg of the capacitor and solder a bridge between the two joints. Cool hack. :)

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Post by wetterberg » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:13 pm

synthetic wrote:When I worked at Alesis, people used to remove the blocking capacitors from the outputs to generate CV for laser light shows.
What a great story! :sb:
Soy, that scope is showing your inputs? Awesome - I hadn't tested the inputs much yet, glad to see it scoped out like that!

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Post by Soy Sos » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:33 pm

Ya, the single output from the modular back into channel 1 of the 828.
That's patched to a meter and scope object. Just bleeping away for hours.

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Post by wetterberg » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:49 pm

I've been postponing my "real" max patch for this these last weeks... I have everything ready to go here, but too much "real world work" in the way. Grumble. Hopefully MaxMSP and I will be able to get together tomorrow and do some testing.

Andreas.

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Post by Kent » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:59 am

synthetic wrote:When I worked at Alesis, people used to remove the blocking capacitors from the outputs to generate CV for laser light shows. You should be able to modify any D/A converter to do this, it's a easy one to undo as well. Just remove one leg of the capacitor and solder a bridge between the two joints. Cool hack. :)
One could even instal and SPST switch. But that seem like more trouble than it is worth in this application.

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Post by mono-poly » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:53 am

I'd love to see a soundcard witch can record and playback contol voltages.
Load them in an audio editor, timestretch pingpong them.

:party:
Last edited by mono-poly on Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by wetterberg » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:02 am

mono-poly wrote:I'd love to see a soundcard witch can record and playback contol voltages.
Load hem in an audio editor, timestretch pingpong them.

:party:
uhm.... that's what we're doing!
:hyper:

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Post by mono-poly » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:04 am

Ok it is not clear to me yet.
So you can record cv now as .wav files?
And play them back?

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:06 am

mono-poly wrote:Ok it is not clear to me yet.
So you can record cv now as .wav files?
And play them back?

:hail:
yes. The main problem has been the dc-blocking capacitors in some audio interfaces. A select few interfaces don't have these, and can record/playback cv - or the computer can generate them directly through these interfaces.
Other interfaces can be modified to work like these, by shorting out said capacitors.

I hope to be doing a small series of videos on this topic soon, *slightly* delayed by first one, now two sick children and a stack of work :help:

If you have any suggestions as to what to feature in the videos on cv processing, please post them here.

Thanks!

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Post by mono-poly » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:12 am

Ok great.
Now i wonder if i can modify some Ensoniq Paris input and output cards.
Sounds amazing recording/playing cv stuff.
How high can you go upto 5 or 10 volt?
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Post by wetterberg » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:57 am

mono-poly wrote:Ok great.
Now i wonder if i can modify some Ensoniq Paris input and output cards.
Sounds amazing recording/playing cv stuff.
How high can you go upto 5 or 10 volt?
Have you tested recording cv directly into the Paris cards without modification?

I sincerely doubt you'll get any audio interface to put out +10 volts on regular outputs, but if you're getting a tech to modify the cards it's possible he could also "pump up the volume", so to speak.

Either that or you could apply gain outside the box, which definitely works, once you've overcome the DC-blocking hurdle.

My 828 seems to be incredibly loud, I am pretty sure they're close to +5volt - normal line level would be roughly +2.5, if my math is correct.

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Post by Soy Sos » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:57 pm

So a few new tests on my part:
MaxMSP can spit out the slowest of LFO to the modular with no problem.
When I recorded an A-145 LFO into Digital Performer starting at the top of
it's medium range, it was fine until I reached the bottom of it's range then
the recorded waveform disappeared. DP also output the CV back at an
oscillator fine until the recording reached the low range. I'm not sure if
this has been covered already or is on any use for the quest.

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:14 pm

I can definitely confirm that, Soy Sos:

- a harmonically rich or otherwise sine wave cannot be faithfully grabbed by the 828mk1 unless we're at above 1hz - anything below that does have some DC-blocking artifacts -
Both the rise and fall of a square wave become SawDown waves, etc. And it'll eventually roll off to the point where there is no signal left.

But hey, it was the outputs I was after ;) Oh, and Soy and I both use the 828mk1, YMMV, IANAEE, etc.

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Post by Suburban Bather » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:14 pm

wetterberg wrote: IANAEE
That wouldn't mean I Am Not An Electronic Engineer would it? :lol:

I almost don't want to to try this out yet, or atleast until after my second 5u cab is full. The price of Max will buy me either one nice module or two cheap utility modules :bop:
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Post by brandon daniel » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:25 pm

Suburban Bather wrote:
wetterberg wrote: IANAEE
That wouldn't mean I Am Not An Electronic Engineer would it? :lol:

I almost don't want to to try this out yet, or atleast until after my second 5u cab is full. The price of Max will buy me either one nice module or two cheap utility modules :bop:
I find Plogue Bidule to be a serviceable poor-man's substitute, though the UI tools could use some work.

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