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218e dropping notes/pulses [VIDEO]
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author 218e dropping notes/pulses [VIDEO]
missingtwin
My 218e will not trigger notes if I hit the same key repeatedly very fast.
At a certain speed, it just stops registering a new pulse at the pulse out.
If I slow down, it triggers again.

If I hit a new note, say going back and forth from D to D#, every note
triggers no matter how fast I play. The arp also will trigger the same note repeatedly without problems, even up to audio rate speeds.

Will a 218e owner please try playing a single note very quickly (manually) to see if the pulse out can keep up with your playing?

REcDeso12oi
I feel like the 218 should trigger as fast as you can play it and be super responsive and expressive. Make sure if you aren't using the arpeggiator that the arpeggiator switch is set to "None". From what I understand the arpeggiator clock doesn't start or stop based on key presses, so if you are in-between pulses on a slower setting it might be perceived as acting erratic or having latency.

Hope that helps smile
missingtwin
Thanks recdeso, the arp is off. It only rejects new
notes when you play the same metal key rapidly
(playing with both fingers very quickly).

Using the arp it will play the same note very rapidly, much faster than
can be played manually.

A friend said it’s probably a debounce programmed there to reject
double hits. I wish it would allow for a bit faster playing.

Maybe drillionaire will chime in on that...

I’d still like someone to try and reporoduce this behavior.
search64
Hook up the pulse out to an oscilloscope and see what’s happening.
missingtwin
I wish I had a real diagnostic scope search, mine is a pretty low featured
analog one that barely works.

However I know the pulse length is not
imposing some kind of limit on the repeat rate of notes or anything b/c the arp can make the repeats go very fast (and the pulse out sounds exactly the same patched to the amp section triggered manually or with the arp).

If this is debounce programming, it would be nice to make it user scalable at the expense of possible double triggers.

At the moment it is not possible to manually play 32nd notes (for example) at a moderate tempo without dropped triggers.
InnnerSight
Yes mine plays really really fast on a single key with a single finger - years of playing the 100m on track and field has given me super speed here.

Playing the same key with two fingers is more difficult as I need the correct timing to ensure both fingers are not touching the key at the same time, otherwise no trigger fires.
pelican
218 is faster than any keyboard I own
Drillionaire
I just gave this a shot and noticed something that is a bit odd. I was able to play any key as fast as I could physically tap it, except the first key I played when powering the unit up (after waiting for the calibration period to elapse, of course).

I was able to get around this by making sure the first key I touched was one of the preset voltage pads.

Another possible cause is that you have a Rev1 218e with new firmware but no pull up resistor on the sustain input.
missingtwin
I tried it drillionaire but this 218e will not trigger a manual pulse
rapidly on the same key.

...added a video demonstrating this behavior.
InnnerSight
What happens if you hit the key really fast with a single finger? That way you ensure that your skin does not remain in contact between presses in any way.

It looks like this is happening in your video and was certainly the problem I had - see above.
djangosfire
I found that, when I disconnected the internal 218e MIDI cable.... the 218e works much better.... more responsive to be sure, in my experience
missingtwin
Thanks innnersight. I am positive I am releasing the key between activations. The 218e is imposing a rate limit on same key triggers.

Adam, will you direct me to the internal MIDI so I can try that.
I have the MIDI IN connected on this 218e, but I suspect you’re speaking of something else.

Thanks!!!
softroom
I had similar problems and with specific keys every time. Others were always fine. In the end, after trying many, many ideas/workarounds, could not find a solution and reluctantly gave in and returned it. (It always worked fine via MIDI). I then hoped to buy a superior clone - but the new Buchla company put a stop to that ambition. After the whole saga, I'm still hoping they are able to improve the quality and I'll have another try in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSjJIv1OpKc
missingtwin
Thanks for the video softroom. It shows exactly what is happening with this 218e (and your video is better - sweet sweater!). On this one, no single keys are able to be triggered manually very quickly.

I see from your video that triggering from midi works fine. I had not tried that yet.

This must be debounce programming to avoid double triggers - buts it’s much too severe!

Can anyone else confirm that their 218e cannot repeat the same manual key activation at a fast rate?

This is not good. The reason is that, when several cv destinations are routed to pressure and notes are played quickly, the 208 can be made to create a natural striking sound. I want to be able to play the same key doing this damnit! waah
softroom
missingtwin wrote:
Thanks for the video softroom. It shows exactly what is happening with this 218e (and your video is better - sweet sweater!). On this one, no single keys are able to be triggered manually very quickly.


Cheers for the sweater comment (I get lots of those on my instagram too - my wife was so pleased she knitted me another, in blue). I hope you get some kind of resolution.
InnnerSight
I see what you mean now, that is definitely not what mine does, it responds much faster, so I'd be surprised if it was related to debounce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUpVlujngTM

I have noticed odd grounding issues once or twice that were resolved by holding a banana cable that was plugged into the easels ground - this is definitely worth a try.
missingtwin
I tried holding on to a banana connected to ground, but cry
Tried disconnecting the clock and data cables, cry
Streakin
the 218e needs good ground. What case do you have it in? What powersupply you using. Another thing are you connected to a power strip or straight to the wall outlet. Finally is lights do you have dimers? if so that causes the 218e to go wacky and some keys wont work. When you turn on your system don't touch the keyboard for 30 seconds its calibration itself.

I hope this helps.
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