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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Juno-66 questions
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Tubbutec  
Author Juno-66 questions
mossie23
I've had the Juno66 mod installed for quite a while now and also have the Stereoping controller. I enjoy the added options, although it took a while for the instrument to feel like a whole again. While using the mod, I've noticed the following things. Maybe they're intended behavior, maybe I'm missing something, or maybe something went wrong with the installation by my synth tech. Some points are technical, other musical.

1) There doesn't seem to be a local off function. I sometimes get MIDI feedback loops. Is there a local off function?

2) I feel the triangle LFO could be much slower at the slowest rate. Would be great for slowly evolving textures. I feel that at the slowest rate, it's still quite fast. Could this be changed? This is really a musical consideration and I wonder why it has been programmed like this.

3) When I engage portamento, with some sounds, there a loud zipper noise. It gets more pronounced in mono mode. I noticed this when playing some high notes with portamento and hearing a low rumble. Slowing the portamento down revealed the zipper noise. I have recordings of this which I can share. It sounds as if the Juno is stepping through all the notes. Is this intended behavior?

4) When I send MIDI notes from my DAW to the Juno66, and the notes are 'touching each other' (so a note starts right after the previous has ended) the timing is completely off. I tried different MIDI interfaces, but I always get the same problem. Only when I shorten the notes to not touch each other, the timing is as should. None of my synth do this, not even my SH101 connected by a MIDI to CV converter. The result is very sloppy timing, and I have recordings of this as well that I can share.

5) The filter envelope is quite slow compared to the Juno envelope. As such, I find it for instance unusable when creating bass sounds, with fast VCA en VCF envelope attacks. The juno66 envelope is always too late. It’s probably a digital envelope and I know the Juno60 envelopes are renowned for being fast. So I can understand. But it’s not only that. I also find the Juno66 envelope very 'unmusical'. For instance, if I use it to make percussive sounds (attack 0, sustain 0, release short and change the decay), the curve of the decay never seems to work. It's either too long or too short. Could this be changed? I feel that right now, it's technically a fine envelope, but part of extending the synth should have been musical consideration. Just as I almost know for sure that the Roland engineers went to great lengths with the Juno60 to fine tune all the fader ranges, envelope curves, etc. To me it's the difference I feel for instance between the Arturia Minibrute (very unmusical ranges and curves) and the Moog Sub37 (very musical).

6) I can’t get the S/H LFO to sync, At least not from the Stereoping controller. I think I tried to do it from the keyboard as well, but that didn't work either. (not in my studio right now) Is this a known bug?
tubbutec
mossie23 wrote:

1) There doesn't seem to be a local off function. I sometimes get MIDI feedback loops. Is there a local off function?


See this post for an in-depth explanation:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=195039

mossie23 wrote:

2) I feel the triangle LFO could be much slower at the slowest rate. Would be great for slowly evolving textures. I feel that at the slowest rate, it's still quite fast. Could this be changed? This is really a musical consideration and I wonder why it has been programmed like this.


Range and precision are always a trade off. Since there already is a slow LFO, we wanted to provide a fast one to allow audio range filter modulation.

mossie23 wrote:

3) When I engage portamento, with some sounds, there a loud zipper noise. It gets more pronounced in mono mode. I noticed this when playing some high notes with portamento and hearing a low rumble. Slowing the portamento down revealed the zipper noise. I have recordings of this which I can share. It sounds as if the Juno is stepping through all the notes. Is this intended behavior?


The Juno-6 / 60 is DCO based with only a 6 bit DAC. Basically there is only one volume step per note. (If this does not make sense, look up how a DCO works wink
As we had to work with the existing hardware, a finer resolution was not possible. As a result you can sometimes hear zipper-noise.

mossie23 wrote:

4) When I send MIDI notes from my DAW to the Juno66, and the notes are 'touching each other' (so a note starts right after the previous has ended) the timing is completely off. I tried different MIDI interfaces, but I always get the same problem. Only when I shorten the notes to not touch each other, the timing is as should. None of my synth do this, not even my SH101 connected by a MIDI to CV converter. The result is very sloppy timing, and I have recordings of this as well that I can share.


The Juno's envelopes need a relatively long time to reset when gate is off. This 'dead' time needs to be added by the Juno-66 (and is also added by the original cpu) to ensure proper envelope re-triggering. When playing via midi, this is more noticeable because you expect better timing.
There is little we can do to improve this, it is a problem of the analogue hardware.

mossie23 wrote:

5) The filter envelope is quite slow compared to the Juno envelope. As such, I find it for instance unusable when creating bass sounds, with fast VCA en VCF envelope attacks. The juno66 envelope is always too late. It’s probably a digital envelope and I know the Juno60 envelopes are renowned for being fast. So I can understand. But it’s not only that. I also find the Juno66 envelope very 'unmusical'. For instance, if I use it to make percussive sounds (attack 0, sustain 0, release short and change the decay), the curve of the decay never seems to work. It's either too long or too short. Could this be changed? I feel that right now, it's technically a fine envelope, but part of extending the synth should have been musical consideration. Just as I almost know for sure that the Roland engineers went to great lengths with the Juno60 to fine tune all the fader ranges, envelope curves, etc. To me it's the difference I feel for instance between the Arturia Minibrute (very unmusical ranges and curves) and the Moog Sub37 (very musical).


This is difficult to answer because this is also a matter of taste. It will however not be possible to make it any faster.

mossie23 wrote:

6) I can’t get the S/H LFO to sync, At least not from the Stereoping controller. I think I tried to do it from the keyboard as well, but that didn't work either. (not in my studio right now) Is this a known bug?


No, usually works well
mossie23
Thanks for your answers!

"The Juno's envelopes need a relatively long time to reset when gate is off. This 'dead' time needs to be added by the Juno-66 (and is also added by the original cpu) to ensure proper envelope re-triggering. When playing via midi, this is more noticeable because you expect better timing.
There is little we can do to improve this, it is a problem of the analogue hardware."

I'm not sure you understand exactly how off the timing is. I'm not talking about a few milliseconds here, I'm talking about straight 8ths and 16ths turning into really sloppy triplets. Is there any way I can send you an audio example? Just so I know we're talking about the same.[/url]
tubbutec
Yes, please send me an example to mail (at) tubbutec.de, or post it here.
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