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Synth-Werk 921 + 921ABBB !!
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Author Synth-Werk 921 + 921ABBB !!
josaka




JohnLRice
w00t SlayerBadger!

Also Model 10 and 12 systems:


EPTC
JohnLRice wrote:
w00t SlayerBadger!

Also Model 10 and 12 systems:


GULP! razz woah Lovely!!!

Both at about $6400 USD, too, which isn't bad compared to $10K for a Moog 15.
SynthBaron
Hot damn.



Miley Cyrus
RussiaZero23
Just when saving up was hard for Synth-werk, this comes out.

Modular grid has been updated as well.

is the sound night and day difference from the Synth.com?

I know its been asked to death but This release means I need $3000 for VCO's only!!!
SynthBaron
RussiaZero23 wrote:

is the sound night and day difference from the Synth.com?


From intimate experience with Dotcom and original and clone Moog modules, absolutely yes. If you want the Moog modular sound, don't waste your time with Dotcom. It always felt slightly alien to me until I got my hands on "real" clones.
RussiaZero23
SynthBaron wrote:
RussiaZero23 wrote:

is the sound night and day difference from the Synth.com?


From intimate experience with Dotcom and original and clone Moog modules, absolutely yes. If you want the Moog modular sound, don't waste your time with Dotcom. It always felt slightly alien to me until I got my hands on "real" clones.


synth-werk or Moslab? what clones did you use.

I have been saving for a few months for synthwerk as i get a few Dot.coms for the utilities.
EPTC
http://www.synth-werk.com/content/custom-standard-systems

Quoting the Synth Werk site on the System 10:

Quote:
Regarding its sound generating core, the Model 10 relies on the faithfully recreation of the 901 Oscillator represented by a SW901A control unit combined with two SW901B Oscillators and an independent SW901 Oscillator module. During redesign stage of conducting paths and component organisation, SYNTH-WERK got rid of an old stigma and provided his tribute with an unrivaled thermic tuning-stability.


Am I reading that correctly that the 901 tune drift has been engineered out? I really want a 901 set of oscillators exactly for that instability. Anyone know?

Regarding dotcom - There's a bunch of truly unique dotcom modules. I agree their VCOs are mild but just got the VCA++ a month ago and it's one of the nicest modules I've ever encountered. Same can be said for the LFO++ and Gate Math. And yeah their utilities are the bees knees. I think Roger's stuff is best as performance utilities; the new VCA is terrifically playable and animated.

Places where other builders have a dominant role: VCOs and FFBs.

Any guess on how this Synth Werk 921 will sound compared to a Model D? Any differences?
Synthoholic
It states on the Synth-Werk Website that the whole circuit has been rethought to produce a VCO that sounds as good as the original.
http://www.synth-werk.com/content/custom-standard-systems
josaka
Quote:

Am I reading that correctly that the 901 tune drift has been engineered out? I really want a 901 set of oscillators exactly for that instability. Anyone know?


Any guess on how this Synth Werk 921 will sound compared to a Model D? Any differences?


yes the SW 901 are solid..
no idea why you would want that out of tune drift..(they re-designed the osc to get rid of it) there is cv control over pitch so you could add it back in..

no one has heard the SW921 yet (apart from Gerhard!).. but the original D are closer to 901 .. no sync etc..

SynthBaron
Synthoholic wrote:
It states on the Synth-Werk Website that the whole circuit has been rethought to produce a VCO that sounds as good as the original.
http://www.synth-werk.com/content/custom-standard-systems


You forgot:

"...Therefore we respectfully integrated only highly accurate parts and authentic NOS parts, following the original circuit design without any compromise!"
SynthBaron
josaka wrote:
but the original D are closer to 901 .. no sync etc..


The Mini osc core is similar to the 921, I think the 921 was a later version of the Mini osc core in fact. I've never seen a mini oscillator that uses the 901 core.
SynthBaron
RussiaZero23 wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
RussiaZero23 wrote:

is the sound night and day difference from the Synth.com?


From intimate experience with Dotcom and original and clone Moog modules, absolutely yes. If you want the Moog modular sound, don't waste your time with Dotcom. It always felt slightly alien to me until I got my hands on "real" clones.


synth-werk or Moslab? what clones did you use.

I have been saving for a few months for synthwerk as i get a few Dot.coms for the utilities.


I've used Moslab and original Moog. I have every reason to believe that Synth Werk is the same.
CZ Rider
SynthBaron wrote:
I've never seen a mini oscillator that uses the 901 core.


How about this one?


The model B used all 900 series modules. The original performance synthesizer.
I want a clone of the model B. I think they still called it the "Minmoog' though. Didn't get the badge "Minimoog" until the model C.
EPTC
CZ Rider wrote:

How about this one?


Oh man, I love that frequency crossfader! Never seen the B before, thank you for posting.
josaka
CZ Rider wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
I've never seen a mini oscillator that uses the 901 core.


How about this one?


The model B used all 900 series modules. The original performance synthesizer.
I want a clone of the model B. I think they still called it the "Minmoog' though. Didn't get the badge "Minimoog" until the model C.


thumbs up
SynthBaron
meh

You know what I mean...
Synthoholic
SynthBaron wrote:
Synthoholic wrote:
It states on the Synth-Werk Website that the whole circuit has been rethought to produce a VCO that sounds as good as the original.
http://www.synth-werk.com/content/custom-standard-systems


You forgot:

"...Therefore we respectfully integrated only highly accurate parts and authentic NOS parts, following the original circuit design without any compromise!"


Would you be so kind as to explain how those aren't mutually exclusive statements?

I'm not being facetious, I don't have the EE knowledge. But The Moog reissues look like the originals. CZ makes RA Moog clone modules. Tom's 901 clone looks like the 901.

My question is how close are the Moslab and Synth-Werk and what would make Gerhard's any better than Seb's? What would make Moog's PCB's better than the former two?
Synthoholic
josaka wrote:
Quote:

Am I reading that correctly that the 901 tune drift has been engineered out? I really want a 901 set of oscillators exactly for that instability. Anyone know?


Any guess on how this Synth Werk 921 will sound compared to a Model D? Any differences?


yes the SW 901 are solid..
no idea why you would want that out of tune drift..(they re-designed the osc to get rid of it) there is cv control over pitch so you could add it back in..

no one has heard the SW921 yet (apart from Gerhard!).. but the original D are closer to 901 .. no sync etc..



Seho's video (He and I talk on a regular basis) is tainted by the fact that it's getting treated by the D's VCAs.
josaka
yep thought that too.. also thought the SW did well(sounds slightly nicer to me) considering its being summed into a single input..
EPTC
josaka wrote:

yes the SW 901 are solid..
no idea why you would want that out of tune drift..


Well I've heard for YEARS that's the main draw for the 901. For drones and other cool accidental moments. I'd love the things to drift around, especially if other more stable oscillators were accompanying them. I like the CV suggestion, but would prefer have less control over that.

josaka wrote:
(they re-designed the osc to get rid of it)


Who is the they, there? SW or Moog at some point? I know Moog produced the 921 to address the drift but I'd be bummed if SW fixed this on the 901s they offer - But maybe I'm a niche case on that.

Still the new 921s look gorgeous, as do both new Model cases.
josaka
we are talking about 2 different things on the 901s.. 1 is the osc going out of tune.. 2 is the scaling differences between the osc.. 1 is the thing that was fixed.. 2 is still there.. the "beating" which as far as I know is the sound people want.. not the going out of tune randomly.
burdij
SynthBaron wrote:
josaka wrote:
but the original D are closer to 901 .. no sync etc..


The Mini osc core is similar to the 921, I think the 921 was a later version of the Mini osc core in fact. I've never seen a mini oscillator that uses the 901 core.


Neither the 921b or the Minimoog D oscillators are like the 901 other than that they are sawtooth wave generators. The 921 and the Minimoog D use a topology consisting of a capacitor with a reset switch feeding a voltage follower circuit whose output goes to a comparator the output of which feeds back to the switch and resets the capacitor when the voltage rises enough.

Both oscillators use exponential current sources to charge the capacitor. The Minimoog (the earlier design) derives the current from a transistor pair, the UA726 which also contains a servo driven heater to maintain the transistor pair temperature at 78 degrees C, hot enough to sous vide a steak and well above room temperature. There is no temperature compensation resistor.

The 921b uses the modern method of a transistor array with a coupled temperature compensation resistor to provide the exponential current.
kindredlost
Without rehashing another analysis of the virtues and vices of the various Moog modular VCO’s, I will say that except for a little temperature sensitivity, the 901’s were pretty stable (drift-wise). The thing that made them sound a certain way was the tracking scale across octaves. The difference was the conversion between linear and exponential and vice versa. The 921’s were more useable due to redesign of that aspect.

I can’t see improving temperature stability affecting the sound of the VCO much.

EDIT:apparently someone beat me to it. lol
RussiaZero23
Synthoholic wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
Synthoholic wrote:
It states on the Synth-Werk Website that the whole circuit has been rethought to produce a VCO that sounds as good as the original.
http://www.synth-werk.com/content/custom-standard-systems


You forgot:

"...Therefore we respectfully integrated only highly accurate parts and authentic NOS parts, following the original circuit design without any compromise!"


Would you be so kind as to explain how those aren't mutually exclusive statements?

I'm not being facetious, I don't have the EE knowledge. But The Moog reissues look like the originals. CZ makes RA Moog clone modules. Tom's 901 clone looks like the 901.

My question is how close are the Moslab and Synth-Werk and what would make Gerhard's any better than Seb's? What would make Moog's PCB's better than the former two?


Does any one have answers or any information to Synthoholic questions?

That can shed some light on those subject. It would help the community of hardcore tone searchers.
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