TouellSkouarn Sonveskan build

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TouellSkouarn Sonveskan build

Post by Mostin77 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:09 pm

I’m just in the process of building the TouellSkouarn Sonveskan euro module from kit, all is going well so far, but I have a question regarding the pcb where the pots mount.
So the pots have 3 thin legs in line and 2 “kinked” side legs, when mounted onto the panel and through the pcb I’ve noticed the pcb has no solder points for the side “kinked” legs. I’ve never seen this on a build before so I’m wondering is the board faulty i.e missing the solder pads, or are these legs just to hold the other 3 pins in place? Do I solder them anyway?

Hope this makes sense.

TL;DR

Pcb doesn’t have solder pads for the side legs on the potentiometers?

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Post by Mostin77 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:13 pm

Image

Pic of board

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templar
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Post by templar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:44 pm

Your board is not faulty - Touellskouarn have just decided not to put solder pads for those holes - The two 'kinked' side legs are usually soldered only for mechanical stability, i.e. they do not affect the circuit in any way.

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Post by templar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:46 pm

It's quite a tricky panel to line up to all the pots and jacks - remember to make sure you can screw nuts onto all your pots before soldering them - took me a few tries to line everything up!

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Post by Mostin77 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:02 pm

templar wrote:Your board is not faulty - Touellskouarn have just decided not to put solder pads for those holes - The two 'kinked' side legs are usually soldered only for mechanical stability, i.e. they do not affect the circuit in any way.
Thanks for the reply. I figured that was the case and carried on building it, but wanted to just double check as I’d never seen a board without the pads for anchorage.

I managed to get all the pots, jacks and switches all lined up with a few mins of wiggling (I’ve had practice with the Befaco hex series!) and it’s now complete ready for a test tomorrow.

What was the reason for not soldering the C3 capacitor until mounting the panel and soldering all the pots, jacks and switches? I couldn’t see any logic in that?

Can’t wait to see how this sounds :deadbanana:

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Post by whyfarer » Tue May 01, 2018 1:32 am

I'd love to hear it too. Demos are too few. Please share if you get a chance :hail: (Less extreme examples would be particularly welcome but I'd take anything....)

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Post by templar » Tue May 01, 2018 7:16 am

Mostin77 wrote:What was the reason for not soldering the C3 capacitor until mounting the panel and soldering all the pots, jacks and switches? I couldn’t see any logic in that?
I think this is because if you solder it before the panel components your iron would be blocked from soldering the jack next to it

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Post by Mostin77 » Wed May 02, 2018 5:55 am

whyfarer wrote:I'd love to hear it too. Demos are too few. Please share if you get a chance :hail: (Less extreme examples would be particularly welcome but I'd take anything....)
I was thinking of making my first demo for this module because I’ve struggled to find anything before buying that really showed it off. Seems like the few demos I found were (as often the case with modular stuff) of a few modules and for me I just want to hear audio first then the effects of the feedback and distortion from the mixer on that audio, no other modules involved. Hopefully I can get time to make a demo if I get it up and running.

Unfortunately mine doesn’t seem to be working properly at the moment. The gain for each channel seems to be working ok but the feedback would appear not to be functioning properly or doing very little to the signal... I will try and take another look at it today as I should have a couple of hours spare later.

From my understanding it’s a fairly simple circuit x3 then into the EQ and output so I’m hoping it will be fairly straightforward to troubleshoot. Part of the reason for buying this kit was to try and understand how mixer and feedback modules work, so with it not functioning properly I might well get to learn about that :hihi:
templar wrote:
Mostin77 wrote:What was the reason for not soldering the C3 capacitor until mounting the panel and soldering all the pots, jacks and switches? I couldn’t see any logic in that?
I think this is because if you solder it before the panel components your iron would be blocked from soldering the jack next to it
Ah right that makes sense. Thanks

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Post by Mostin77 » Wed May 02, 2018 9:56 am

Image
Image


Right I’ve had another play with the module and I’m getting fairly consistent results for all 3 channels. So now I’m double doubting myself. I’m thinking maybe my lack of knowledge of feedback type effects and the fairly vague user manual might have had me thinking that the module isn’t working properly when it might well be working just fine.

Can anyone please explain the way this module works? It’s shows on the second page of the manual that the signal flow for feedback only feeds back to the same channel although with audio input into channel 1 I’m getting signal from channel 1 across all 3 channels when those channels are switched on.
I’ve removed the panel and rechecked solder for bridges and reflowed most of the solder to double check and I’m going to re check the parts against the build doc picture to make sure of correct orientation and resistor values. I’ve attached 2photos if anyone else would like to see if anything obvious is wrong that I’m missing.

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Post by Mostin77 » Sun May 06, 2018 2:58 am

Anyone?

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Post by ludotex » Mon May 07, 2018 10:57 am

I am getting the same things as you, and I was wondering if I screwed it too.
So, I think that's just the way it works since we both get this behavior... The feedback CVs do very little :despair:

Still sounds nice though. But a bit disapointing that CVs over feedback is so tame. I have run proper feedback with other modules (mults and vcas) and it was great just wish that was the proper behavior of the module without help of anything else.
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Post by Mostin77 » Mon May 07, 2018 6:24 pm

ludotex wrote:I am getting the same things as you, and I was wondering if I screwed it too.
So, I think that's just the way it works since we both get this behavior... The feedback CVs do very little :despair:

Still sounds nice though. But a bit disapointing that CVs over feedback is so tame. I have run proper feedback with other modules (mults and vcas) and it was great just wish that was the proper behavior of the module without help of anything else.
Agreed the distortion is sounding nice but still not getting hardly anything from the feedback pots apart from the last few mm fully clockwise seems to do something quite aggressive, but that can’t be right can it? I was expecting the mixer feedback to be way more aggressive. Maybe I need to adjust some trim pots mine were all pretty high so I brought them all down to centre/factory default like in the manual. I’m still thinking mine is builder error, but it’s odd yours has the same issue?
I wonder if the feedback from channel 1 isn’t fed back to itself but fed into channel 2 and 2 into 3, but that makes no sense from the signal flow diagram from page 2 of the manual.

From the flow chart on page 2 of the user manual and from the way I read it (I could well be wrong) each channel is independent of the other two channels and each channel can be fed back onto itself, all 3 channels are then mixed together and sent into the EQ and then the output? Mine doesn’t seem to be doing that.

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Post by ludotex » Tue May 08, 2018 4:28 am

I was expecting the same as you when I finished mine and got the same result: feedback pots are almost useless, just change a bit from 5 to 6 o clock.

I thought too that I messed up the build but then I watched that video and when he plugs the modulation its weird, he even unplugged channel 2 and try channel 1 because not much is happening. Also he gets modulation when the pots is full counterclockwise (you'd expect nothing to happen...)

So, either the build doc is messed up, or the conception of the module is a bit flawed, or maybe its the nature of these transistors that make them very sensible to changes...

It would be nice to have what happens between 5 and 6 o clock on the whole range of the pot.
Maybe it's an easy fix/hack. Unfortunately I have no ideas about these things, and there isn't much people building the sonveskan :despair:

As it stands I rather have CV control on the mixer gain pots than the feedback pots.

It's a bit of a shame because, even though the feedback pot is kinda broken, it still sounds awesome and would so rule if it behaved like expected.

I still love it for how original it sounds.
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Post by Mostin77 » Tue May 08, 2018 5:20 am

ludotex wrote:I was expecting the same as you when I finished mine and got the same result: feedback pots are almost useless, just change a bit from 5 to 6 o clock.

I thought too that I messed up the build but then I watched that video and when he plugs the modulation its weird, he even unplugged channel 2 and try channel 1 because not much is happening. Also he gets modulation when the pots is full counterclockwise (you'd expect nothing to happen...)

So, either the build doc is messed up, or the conception of the module is a bit flawed, or maybe its the nature of these transistors that make them very sensible to changes...

It would be nice to have what happens between 5 and 6 o clock on the whole range of the pot.
Maybe it's an easy fix/hack. Unfortunately I have no ideas about these things, and there isn't much people building the sonveskan :despair:

As it stands I rather have CV control on the mixer gain pots than the feedback pots.

It's a bit of a shame because, even though the feedback pot is kinda broken, it still sounds awesome and would so rule if it behaved like expected.

I still love it for how original it sounds.
Ah ok I’ll take a look at the video. I’d imagine it wouldn’t be that hard to zone in on what’s happening between 5 & 6 o’clock and spread that across a pot, but like you I have no idea how. Maybe i’ll try and find some simular circuits and Look into some schematics. It’s a shame that there’s not more documentation on a lot of these sorts of modules as I think that might help people learn a little more about the modules they are building. A schematic would be a really helpful addition to the build document ;)

I still feel like I’ve missed something on this build with the feedback as it seems odd to have a feedback know that behaves like that, maybe it’s just subtle and I need to have another look into it, although it didn’t seem to be doing much to the waveform on the scope either?

On a side note I noticed people commmenting (I forget where I read that now) on a similar thing with the germanium fuzz module too in the way the main knob seems to do very little and then it really kicks in on that unit too so maybe that’s the nature of germaniums?

Hopefully someone a bit more knowledgeable will pop into this thread and explain all

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Post by haiku-ish » Wed May 09, 2018 2:09 am

Hi there ! normally you'll have strong feedback when the channel big knob is around 3/4 and the feedback switch on (the one one the right of the channel)
the other knob (feedback) is only attenuating the incoming cv input of the channel if some cv source is plugged in. Sometime the feedback knob will have very little effect it really depends of the input signal, if it is strong or have large frequency content. You can also switch on the feedback on other unplugged channels, it will add more feedback.

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Post by Mostin77 » Wed May 09, 2018 3:12 am

haiku-ish wrote:Hi there ! normally you'll have strong feedback when the channel big knob is around 3/4 and the feedback switch on (the one one the right of the channel)
the other knob (feedback) is only attenuating the incoming cv input of the channel if some cv source is plugged in. Sometime the feedback knob will have very little effect it really depends of the input signal, if it is strong or have large frequency content. You can also switch on the feedback on other unplugged channels, it will add more feedback.

Image
Thanks for dropping by haiku-ish

That makes much more sense to me now. Maybe my module is functioning as intended after all.

I have more questions:

So the feedback is directly connected to the gain knob and switched on and off by the feedback switch, then attenuated by the cv input?

The way I read the signal path in the diagram you posted is that the feedback signal from channel 1 is fedback onto itself when switched on and then mixed at the EQ and output. So if I only have audio going into channel 1 and turn on the feedback for channel 2 and 3 where does the signal path go from channel 1 are channels 2 & 3 fed the same signal from channel 1 or does 1 feed into 2 and then into 3?

Thanks again

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Post by haiku-ish » Wed May 09, 2018 3:34 am

when you only have a source on channel 1 and you switch the feedback on on the 2 other channels, then the output of channel 1 is also going into channel 2 and 3 via feedback loop...

Futuresound

Post by Futuresound » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:58 am

Silly question: which side is -12 on the power header?

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Post by haiku-ish » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:51 am

the -12V is here in yellow Image

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Post by Precarious » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:24 am

As far as feedback path, check the comments under the video.

Touell Skouarn says:
"The feedback path is shared between the 3 channels"

That's why adjusting levels of inputs 2 and 3 effects the sound of channel 1 even if nothing is plugged into them.[/img]

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Post by gummyboy » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:47 am

It looks like feedback switch down is on and sound switch up is on.
Is it correct?

And if feedback knob touches all the way up(CW) with FB switch on, suddenly distortion gets weaker. Is this correct?

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Post by Precarious » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:55 am

gummyboy wrote:It looks like feedback switch down is on and sound switch up is on.
Is it correct?

And if feedback knob touches all the way up(CW) with FB switch on, suddenly distortion gets weaker. Is this correct?
In this video BIM runs through Sonveskañ, so everything other than bass and hihat. I turn on feedback, switch down, starting at 1:49. You can hear how extreme the change is. That's with feedback all the way up. You balance its effect with the main knob. Such a sick module!

[video][/video]

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Post by haiku-ish » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:42 am

Very nice patch Precarious !

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Post by Precarious » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:49 pm

haiku-ish wrote:Very nice patch Precarious !
Thanks! The only gates used are the square outs from Batumi with LFOs in divide mode. Amazing the complexity you can get between that and Voltage Block. :wink:

But I need to experiment sending gates to Sonveskañ to sequence feedback. :love:

Here is another experiment I did using the same rig also involving Sonveskañ. Basimilus Iteritas Alter into Sonveskañ into Modor Formant Filter. I switch on feedback 2 minutes in for accents. Pretty interesting combination.

[video][/video]

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Post by gummyboy » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:43 pm

OK.
So for feedback, switch down is on.

What about FB knob all the way up?
I did the same set up as Precarious.
Mine kinda looses distortion when FB knob touches CW.

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