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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

It's official - Behringer 808...
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author It's official - Behringer 808...
iskeptici
Let the comments begin...

http://www.synthanatomy.com/2018/05/behringer-teased-rhythm-designer-r d-808-analog-drum-machine.html
Luap
chvad
sounds cool enough!
zeit
Wow, this is unexpected. I haven't been really keeping up with what Behringer has been doing and only looked at a few of the Model D demos. I'll have to get one of this though. Looks like it's full-size and not toy size. So nice, estimate 500€? hyper
Jason Brock
spacezignul
if they do a 808 they have to do a 909
lisa
Cool! A few years ago I’d be all over this. However, TR-8 is a perfect TR-808 mimic (plus 606, 707, 727 and 909) and I have one of those so BD-808 isn’t for me.
willbanks
spacezignul wrote:
if they do a 808 they have to do a 909


looks like they are, along with other drum machines
http://www.synthanatomy.com/2017/12/the-next-bomb-has-burst-behringer- teased-5-new-analog-digital-drum-machines-lmx-omx-rd-999-rd-808-rd-909 .html

bit of an old article referring back to when behringer "accidentally" leaked pictures on their website of drum machines. Since they came out and announced the 808, they're probably doing a 909 as well.
bradpickapiper
they did just produce the analog 808 people have been wanting from Roland for years. Roland slept on this for sure.
I'd like to see an all-in-one analog Roland box (happy to have Roland make it too! haha) with a few different drum machines in one.
RUMPLEDFORESKIN
OG company releases digital knock off of coveted gear.

Behringer releases actual analog version at an amazing price.

OG company is not hurt by this, as they are well established and still make good products.

Fan boys cry in the forums.

Broke people like me profit.
GovernorSilver
I like the slowed down "Sexual Healing" pattern at the end of the 1st Sonic State vid.
tehyar
The little tweaky thingies they added on the left side do some seriously sexy stuff to the sound.
bitflip
RUMPLEDFORESKIN wrote:
OG company releases digital knock off of coveted gear.

Behringer releases actual analog version at an amazing price.

OG company is not hurt by this, as they are well established and still make good products.

Fan boys cry in the forums.

Broke people like me profit.


QFT thumbs up
EPTC
Yeah I'll admit to finding much of the Behringer D to be a really mean spirited way of behaving as a company, but this is more like it. The enhancement with the filter looks/sounds great. Roland won't ever offer a full-sized analog reissue so this is nice. Sounds and looks really terrific.

Wonder if Acidlab's products should be considered in the discussion, though. It's twice the price, but I'd think this is Behringer jumping on the 808 Miami's cloud a bit.

That said I wouldn't mind one of these B 808s, or are we going to call them B0B's?
col
Compressor on the kick, individual outs with the Moffet filter across the mains (shame it's not selectable)! applause
rizoma
Speaking about this and all of those clones no one seems to care about the original sequencer, like the a/b patterns, the intro/fill in and the autofill in.
I'm so frustrated! very frustrating
I'm the only one who cares?? d'oh!
The sequencer is responsible of the sounds. It's the glue behind it!!! Dead Banana
Peake
edit
makhho
rizoma wrote:
Speaking about this and all of those clones no one seems to care about the original sequencer, like the a/b patterns, the intro/fill in and the autofill in.
I'm so frustrated! very frustrating
I'm the only one who cares?? d'oh!
The sequencer is responsible of the sounds. It's the glue behind it!!! Dead Banana


couldn't agree with you more confused
Jim's computer beats
rizoma wrote:
Speaking about this and all of those clones no one seems to care about the original sequencer, like the a/b patterns, the intro/fill in and the autofill in.
I'm so frustrated! very frustrating
I'm the only one who cares?? d'oh!
The sequencer is responsible of the sounds. It's the glue behind it!!! Dead Banana


AFAIK, (correct me if I’m wrong) the sequencer on roland boutique tr-08 has the same functions as the original.
kwaidan
For about fifteen minutes, I actually owned a TR-08; however, a simple A/B comparison with my Acidlab sent it back with absolutely no regret.

Although Behringer’s business model is disgusting and unethical, I shed no tears for Roland. The 808 defined a number of genres, yet for years now, the corporation has blatantly ignored what the public wants, relying on the silly argument that an imitation (virtual reality) is better than the original.
h4ndcrafted
Can you run stuff through it, be handy that analogue transient shaper for other drum synths.

Wonder what it will sound like next to a Yocto.
benway
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Wonder what it will sound like next to a Yocto.


Or a TR-08, TR-8 or Roland plugin more to the point. I'm not inclined to presume that it'll come out well.
gentle_attack
benway wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Wonder what it will sound like next to a Yocto.


Or a TR-08, TR-8 or Roland plugin more to the point. I'm not inclined to presume that it'll come out well.

These are good questions. One of my favorite things about the RYTM is using a 808 sample I like, and layering it with some synthesis, then compressing to taste. Kind of a nice way to put your own spin on the situation.

I'd assume layering the rompler of the TR-8S with samples could bring similar joy, although I know how Elektrons work, and used RYTM isn't much more than a new TR-8S anyways.
benway
I have a Rytm as well, have to say that if it was just the analogue section I'd be kinda disappointed - for straight up out of the box "character" without hours of tweaking I'd probably take my TR09 instead - but the samples and sequencer take it to the next level.

Looking forward to the firmware update with the bassline synth, should be dropping soon I'd hope.
h4ndcrafted
The behringer with its transient shaper might well come out better than any of them.
I was really wondering about the Yocto as it is the cheapest analogue clone.

I might sell my Yocto and replace it with tr08s as great as vanilla 808 is , I’m kinda bored of it already.
sduck
Fair warning folks - a number of Behringer related threads have had to be locked because of politics creeping in. Keep this thread locked on the gear, and it can stay open. No politics please - please moderate your own comments BEFORE hitting the submit button.
WaveRider
rizoma wrote:
...original sequencer, like the a/b patterns, the intro/fill in and the autofill in.


I agree that those functions were very useful live and fun... and I expect even more of a sequencer now hihi

I love the sequencer on my cyclone TT78, for a drum machine it is pretty good with many functions too.

I will probably pass on roland clones as I am setup already and kind of wish for new sounds and up to date sequencing.

I am not sure I would bite on a clone of a linndrum or DMX either.
If you could load your own samples into a linndrum or DMX clone maybe.

Would be nice if B makes an original analog drum machine in the spirit of the neuron (the red semi modular).
Yes Powder
I was ambivalent about the Model D and very much taken aback by the Eurorack thing, but this pretty cool!
They're just doing what Roland should've done instead of that TR8 thing.
More like this plz!
Robscorch
And Behringer be like...

Monotremata
WaveRider wrote:

Would be nice if B makes an original analog drum machine in the spirit of the neuron (the red semi modular).


Its in the works too. Along with the Linn/DMX/808/909, they also leaked the RD-999 which is their own analog machine from the ground up. Curious to see it.. Like I said on the FB group thread, I am all over a B 909 when it comes out.. The samples of the 808 sounded good enough, Im sold on the full size case alone. I wanted the TR-9 soooooooo bad, until I actually saw it in person at Noisebug, and laughed that it looked like a toy and was so frustrating to work on with all those tiny knobs crammed together. My Korg SQ-1 is sometimes frustrating enough, the TR-9 goes into overdrive with all the crap they stuck together.. The only advantage it has is you get the plugin for free with it (I have the demo installed and both it and the 808 RULE), but if you've got the hardware, who the hell is gonna use the plugin anyways?
gentle_attack
WaveRider wrote:

Would be nice if B makes an original analog drum machine in the spirit of the neuron (the red semi modular).

Then problemo with doing that is every time an original drum machine pops up, the choir of belly-achers immediately chimes in "but the kick doesn't sound like a punching bag being hit with a bazooka"
"But the snare..."
"But the bass drum..."

And every complaint correlates directly to a highly processed version of the corresponding sound off a 808 or 909. Tempest, Volca, Rytm, Machinedrum... Nord Drum is the only one that seems to get generally high marks all around.

If you're doing electronic music and aren't into sampling or synthesizing your own sounds, the 808 is great for building a beat with, and even better if you multitrack and scuplt the sounds around the melodic parts of your track.
chiasticon
kwaidan wrote:
Although Behringer’s business model is disgusting and unethical, I shed no tears for Roland. The 808 defined a number of genres, yet for years now, the corporation has blatantly ignored what the public wants, relying on the silly argument that an imitation (virtual reality) is better than the original.

100% agree. Roland had all the time in the world to make analog versions of their machines, but never did. even now, they're out-sourcing the analog they're doing. and while I feel for companies like Acidlab, being one-man operations and making solid machines, I will likely get a 909 when they do it. and maybe this 808. they seem to be of at least the same quality that the one man shops can do (based on Model D internals videos I've seen).

I am a little irked with the Odyssey rip off. Korg at least partnered with one of Arp's founders and did it with his blessing. Behringer ripped off the Odyssey on their own and then added a rip off of Korg's sequencer to it, just to throw salt in the wound. the Pro One rip off is also a little annoying, given Dave Smith's contribution in recent years (i.e. he didn't ignore the call for true analog synths like Roland did). but Dave never did remake the Pro One...

anyway, I look forward to hearing more about these machines, as well as the rumored 909, DMX and LinnDrum.
CF3
kwaidan wrote:
For about fifteen minutes, I actually owned a TR-08; however, a simple A/B comparison with my Acidlab sent it back with absolutely no regret.

Although Behringer’s business model is disgusting and unethical, I shed no tears for Roland. The 808 defined a number of genres, yet for years now, the corporation has blatantly ignored what the public wants, relying on the silly argument that an imitation (virtual reality) is better than the original.


Not mention there are already 808 clones, and have been for a long time. I get the argument that Behringer are being “unethical”, but why are some scorned and others revered for clones? People are falling all over themselves praising Black Corp (Sputnik) for Deckards Dream, when it seems to me Roman’s whole business model is exactly what Behringer is doing. And I’m not judging.... personally I could care less except for the hypocrisy.

If this thing is priced right (which I’m sure it will be), they will sell a shit load. They’re literally just giving the people what they want.
Yes Powder
CF3 wrote:
People are falling all over themselves praising Black Corp (Sputnik) for Deckards Dream, when it seems to me Roman’s whole business model is exactly what Behringer is doing. And I’m not judging.... personally I could care less except for the hypocrisy.


It's really a matter of scale.
Behringer is a large multinational company with thousands of employees and a lot of offshore manufacturing power with their hands in virtually every facet of music production equipment
Roman is a guy mainly known within the synth community for making Eurorack clones of Buchla200 modules, who may have a few other employees working under him, if any— I don't know. The point is: he's not worth billions.

When Roman makes a DIY-kit clone a classic out-of-production synth that (let's face it) is never going to be cloned by its original manufacturer just because the thing is a BEAST to construct, that's pretty cool.

When Behringer says they're planning to introduce Eurorack modules to an already oversaturated market that will undercut many small manufacturers that are run by maybe three people at the most, people will rightfully get concerned.
When they release a clone of a synth that's still being handmade by the original company in a worker-owned plant, but instead have their version mass-produced in a Chinese factory with unknown conditions, people will rightfully get upset.
But when they clone a product from another multinational company that has repeatedly ignored customer requests to re-release said product, it's pretty cool and honestly kinda funny.
Robscorch
I agree!

I am growing tired of the debates. Truth be told they are listening and this is powerful regardless of reputation. It appears with the Pro one they are improving the quality and this certainly a vast improvement over many of Behringers other offerings. They learn they adapt they will survive. Others will not this is the nature of business. Roland is to busy with their other markets synths and drum machines are sideline. This is a case where one company is really paying attention and kudos to them.
tesserack
kwaidan wrote:
For about fifteen minutes, I actually owned a TR-08; however, a simple A/B comparison with my Acidlab sent it back with absolutely no regret.

Although Behringer’s business model is disgusting and unethical, I shed no tears for Roland. The 808 defined a number of genres, yet for years now, the corporation has blatantly ignored what the public wants, relying on the silly argument that an imitation (virtual reality) is better than the original.
yes Roland did that 'copy it in digital form' with the analog 1981 GR300 synth trumpet sound that Pat Metheny, bill Frisell and John Abercrombie made famous.

Just about every guitar synth product that Roland made after the original analog GR300 had a digital version of a GR300 patch in it.

All missed the Mark of sounding anything close to the original until the VG 99 digital model of the GR300 came out 30 years after the original.

They also included that modeled sound in the GR 55 and the GP10 and it sounded good. Then Roland released the boss SY-300 with a GR300 sound using virtual oscillators that doesn't come close to the original.

The boss sy300 obviously played to that original GR300 image with the mimic name and blue color of the pedal. I was fooled by the advertising hype.


Behringer needs to remake the analog version of the Roland GR300. Roland doesn't seem interested.

Those patents will be expiring soon.

Uri, when you reproduce this,please remember this was a hexaphonic input product. One oscillator, filter circuit etc for each string of the guitar.

Also please include CV outputs for each control point. So that would be 6 CV gate and 6 oscillator outs, Etc. Would be fine if it was made as an optional eurorack module also.

Thanks.
prae
i like the chassis

transient shaper is a good idea too

i'll stick with my yocto but this will undoubtably make many people happy and sell loads



i heard that behringer have more lawyers than engineers
dubonaire
I love the comment from Nick Batt "What do we have here? Something different Pete" which maybe or maybe didn't go over Pete from Behringer's head, I think I saw a wry smile.
Robscorch
dubonaire wrote:
I love the comment from Nick Batt "What do we have here? Something different Pete" which maybe or maybe didn't go over Pete from Behringer's head, I think I saw a wry smile.


All fun and games until Gaz comes to the party. screaming goo yo I would have done the same thing and out the door too.

phesago
UGH


Looks like I might need one lol I wonder if it has the three trigger outs too?
JAO
phesago wrote:
I wonder if it has the three trigger outs too?




It do!
Panason
One BehRINGer to rule them all! It's peanut butter jelly time!

All those speculators charging thousands for an original with questionable life expectancy can go stuff themselves! Once the BR 909 is out too, that ludicrous situation can finally become even more irrelevant.

But of course without MIDI pattern control this will join the growing ranks of saddly crippled drum machines.

This one wil probably be a DRAMA machine. I look forward to reams of comments and arguments about how it doesn't sound as good as the original.
umma gumma
that thing looks great!!

I'll be picking one up, and a 909 if they make that too
Panason
rizoma wrote:
Speaking about this and all of those clones no one seems to care about the original sequencer, like the a/b patterns, the intro/fill in and the autofill in.
I'm so frustrated! very frustrating
I'm the only one who cares?? d'oh!
The sequencer is responsible of the sounds. It's the glue behind it!!! Dead Banana


Who says it doesnt have those?
prae
everyone is getting extremely frothy about this online
ranix
wouldn't pay a penny over $300 for it
Panason
prae wrote:
everyone is getting extremely frothy about this online


hihi hihi hihi

Rich kids are upset that the plebs can now sound just as good.
phesago
JAO wrote:
phesago wrote:
I wonder if it has the three trigger outs too?




It do!


It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo
felixer
EPTC wrote:
Yeah I'll admit to finding much of the Behringer D to be a really mean spirited way of behaving as a company, but this is more like it.

seriously, i just don't get it can you tell what the difference is?
felixer
Panason wrote:
prae wrote:
everyone is getting extremely frothy about this online


hihi hihi hihi

Rich kids are upset that the plebs can now sound just as good.

yep, that's a part of it .... real analog for the masses hihi
all the same, i never liked the sound of the 808. or 909. there was little else in those days. but then the linn etc came along (sampled sounds) and that was the end of that.
rizoma
Panason wrote:
rizoma wrote:
Speaking about this and all of those clones no one seems to care about the original sequencer, like the a/b patterns, the intro/fill in and the autofill in.
I'm so frustrated! very frustrating
I'm the only one who cares?? d'oh!
The sequencer is responsible of the sounds. It's the glue behind it!!! Dead Banana


Who says it doesn't have those?

I can't find any trace of those functions on the panel, other than autofill, I hope someone at behringer is reading and thinking about including the old workflow within the new stuff
Panason
Agreed! Plus pattern change via MIDI is a must have for me.... especially if you can do stuff like retrigger patterns and jump to the same position in another pattern. That would really take it to the next level.

I can see some interesting stuff scrawled with marker pen above the 16 keys!

And, there is an INTRO/FILL-IN button at the bottom right corner! SlayerBadger!

And STEP REPEAT! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

It's peanut butter jelly time!

The only thing I can see is missing is a tuning knob for the bass drum ...
bluehotel
this is going to sell a lot, which is lame, because the TR-8S is way more useful, but too niche for the people this is marketing to. yes it's more expensive, but the TR-8S is also an endgame drum machine for most people.
prae
is it out yet? i don’t care enough to look
Monotremata
They didn't know when it would be ready when they demoed it. I think they said they were hoping August/September?? Hopefully the 909 isn't too far behind!
cake100
I am looking forward to seeing what their original drum machine will be like.
MindMachine
cake100 wrote:
I am looking forward to seeing what their original drum machine will be like.


Which one is that?
Monotremata
MindMachine wrote:
cake100 wrote:
I am looking forward to seeing what their original drum machine will be like.


Which one is that?


I can't remember what it was called, but apparently theyre doing like 6 machines (I think) altogether and one of them is not going to be a clone, but their own analog machine like the Deepmind and the Neutron (I think thats what its called).
fattyparts
Monotremata wrote:
They didn't know when it would be ready when they demoed it. I think they said they were hoping August/September?? Hopefully the 909 isn't too far behind!


pie in the sky thinking but it would be absolute marketing genius if each unit dropped on the 08/08 and 09/09 respectively.
Panason
Not likely to happen before Christmas if the Neutron's timeline is anything to go by. Another irresistible box by the evil B! help
JAO
fattyparts wrote:
would be absolute marketing genius if each unit dropped on the 08/08 and 09/09 respectively.


Look like the 808 will be announced on Wednesday. I wouldn't expect to see production before 2019.
fattyparts
i'm still hopeful it will be released this wednesday!
Man-In-A-Suitcase
Behringer 8th August 2018

https://www.facebook.com/105517788913/posts/10156659155938914/

will they outdo Roland, who only seem to be releasing sneakers ?
Panason
The suspense is agonizing.

Please refrain from bumping up this thread until release is announced as I suffer from severe GAS attacks that would make Cartman look easy going in comparison Dead Banana
prae
all of that teasing, for a teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1V4nE2-Bag

sounds pretty whack. why put this shitty ass demo up?
Panason
Dead Banana
At the end it says "see you 9/9" with an ugly yellow font... annoying marketing is annoying.
rowsbywoof
Panason wrote:
Dead Banana
At the end it says "see you 9/9" with an ugly yellow font... annoying marketing is annoying.


LOL, where they do the same video but with a BR-909? The build on this does look pretty dope, though. They're going to sell so many of these 808s it's going to hurt... and somehow still drive up the price of the originals as people claim to hear the slightest bit of difference on the tails of hats, and the clang of the cowbell. The circle of synth life spins on.
RickKleffel
prae wrote:
all of that teasing, for a teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1V4nE2-Bag

sounds pretty whack. why put this shitty ass demo up?


The individual sounds seem pretty ok, but the joy of a TR-808, and presumably, the BR-808, is the insane and unique playability. I would have thought for the premiere of their machine, they'd get someone who at least seemed to have seen one before. Whoever was running this one, alas, did not seem to grok the goodness that is x0xbox programming. To be honest, cooled my jets a bit. Plus, I don't need it, plus, I don't have any space for it.

Which means that I still might buy one!
nectarios

Definitely sounds decent, actually it sounds nice, better than the TR-8 and any Drumbrute for sure.

That resonance, whatever trick almost blew my speakers, that was just silly.
Waiting for the price. If its cheap enough, I'll buy one.
dubonaire
rowsbywoof wrote:
The build on this does look pretty dope, though.


Including the flexing panel?
nectarios
dubonaire wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:
The build on this does look pretty dope, though.


Including the flexing panel?


lol true that
lud
Puma's 808 shoes look more authentic to me!
Jerome
I'll wait for the Soma Pulsar 23, new paradigm and rythmic soundscapes.
tenembre
dubonaire wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:
The build on this does look pretty dope, though.


Including the flexing panel?


That's a prototype. The Deepmind sample they sent to Sonic State for review did the same thing.
SonicRevolutions
The sunken trig knobs... d'oh!
nectarios
SonicRevolutions wrote:
The sunken trig knobs... d'oh!


I think tenebre is right regarding the prototype case. The buttons are not sunken in this video and it the case here looks more solid.

dubonaire
tenembre wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:
The build on this does look pretty dope, though.


Including the flexing panel?


That's a prototype. The Deepmind sample they sent to Sonic State for review did the same thing.


Maybe so. I was just responding to the comment "The build on this does look pretty dope, though." Which is either shill or inane.

I've read about complaints on Deepmind build quality too. Behringer might be cheap but posts about "dope" build quality when in this case the panel flexes with each button press are ridiculous.
Panason
It's just a prototype, I really doubt there will be any panel flexing in the actual product... but it does look like we won't be seeing this in the shops until winter holidays or next year.

I do wish they wouldn't use any rubber buttons, I totally hate those. Why do so may companies use them? Cheapest LED buttons?
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
It's just a prototype, I really doubt there will be any panel flexing in the actual product...


dubonaire wrote:
I was just responding to the comment "The build on this does look pretty dope, though."
lud
Agreed on the rubber buttons, think they suck.
This machine looks like the ugly offspring of a Beatstep Pro and the TR-808
Entrainer
He had found a drum machine which provided him with a rubber button which triggered a clap that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike an 808 clap.
lud
Yeah what the hell is up with the clap??
Panason
I once found that mice had nibbled bits off a rubber button on a Novation Nocturn that was in storage for years. The white rubber also goes yellow with age and just sucks in every way for button material .

Quote:
He had found a drum machine which provided him with a rubber button which triggered a clap that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike an 808 clap.

lol applause
PLNB
Obvious concerns with the build at this price point, but don't expect the release hardware to have all the stuff the prototype would have. The B learned from the Deepmind that buggy and or shoddy build components will be more of a hassle than spending the extra 10 cents to do it right the first time. Loose end cheeks, disconnected main board, and faulty paint on the pitch bend/mod wheels all got sorted out eventually with DM12
Panason
If Behringer is just not acceptable , DINSync is apparently planning to make an 808 clone as well.... but prepare to pay mucho more.
gentle_attack
PLNB wrote:
Obvious concerns with the build at this price point, but don't expect the release hardware to have all the stuff the prototype would have. The B learned from the Deepmind that buggy and or shoddy build components will be more of a hassle than spending the extra 10 cents to do it right the first time. Loose end cheeks, disconnected main board, and faulty paint on the pitch bend/mod wheels all got sorted out eventually with DM12


I agree with the sentiment that the prototype may not be crafted the same way the production one is...

Buuuuuuut it's not like this is Behringers first foray into hardware they've made hundreds of things in the last 30yrs. You get what you pay for. Sometimes you pay a lot and get something that feels cheap. At least in this case you are not paying much. I've never understood people going ham on drum machines. If you aren't finger drumming or hammering in beats, I don't understand people being rough on their kit.
umma gumma
yes...go easy on the ham!

ScottA2A
You really can't judge the quality of a production unit from a prototype, they are unrelated.

Scott.
Ranxerox
ScottA2A wrote:
You really can't judge the quality of a production unit from a prototype, they are unrelated.

Scott.


That won't stop people though- on the internet, the loudest opinions always outweigh the facts.

The real test is going to be people voting with their wallets. I suspect this will be pretty popular, despite the behringer haters trying to strangle it in it's crib; it's analogue, it's not a kitset, affordable, and bound to be a lot closer to a TR-808 than a drumbrute for similar money.

Not that I'm criticising the drumbrute; I love mine, it has a distinctive sound more like a CR8000 or Korg KR. I'll probably get this thing as well, to cover more ground sonically.
dubonaire
Ranxerox wrote:
ScottA2A wrote:
You really can't judge the quality of a production unit from a prototype, they are unrelated.

Scott.


That won't stop people though- on the internet, the loudest opinions always outweigh the facts.


Or stop people from not bothering to read the whole thread. The only reason the flexible faceplate was mentioned was as a response to:

rowsbywoof wrote:
Quote:
The build on this does look pretty dope, though.


How stupid do people regard other people that they think they need to explain that a prototype might not be the same as the final product?
Panason
I'm not so confident about this one any more... unless they are using the exact same components ( apparently all but one component are still obtainable) it may not sound too great.
I've had a few good sessions with the Neutron now and it must be said that the sound reflects the price... it always has a lo-fi quality to it which isn't what you always want...as well as plenty of noise in the output.
The 808 became so liked because it has a kind of futuristic crisp tone as well as that sub kick. That snare and hi hat is just as important there ...
umma gumma
the proof will be in the pudding, when they are available and people can actually play the things. I'm thru speculating
Sinamsis
I'm pretty sure all these units are going to be a single, or several, mass-produced PCBs, not made from the identical components of the 808. Similar to what Alesis did with the Andromeda. And similarly, when something shits the bed, you're going to have to replace a large portion of the unit, or the whole thing. It's part of the process that allows the cost to be so low. If you're looking for something with matched components then you're looking for something like a Yocto (or Nava for the 909), which will markedly be more expensive even if you build it yourself (and profoundly time consuming). The notion that you would expect to get a unit with matched discrete components for $300 or whatever these will go for is absolutely asinine. But look who it's coming from.
Panason
If it's much more than $300 and does not have identical 808 components I'm writing Uli a vewy angwy letter !

lol

makhho
those soft white plastic buttons they decided on, coupled with the ugly typeface makes the machine look horribly uninviting
tenembre
dubonaire wrote:
Ranxerox wrote:
ScottA2A wrote:
You really can't judge the quality of a production unit from a prototype, they are unrelated.

Scott.


That won't stop people though- on the internet, the loudest opinions always outweigh the facts.


Or stop people from not bothering to read the whole thread. The only reason the flexible faceplate was mentioned was as a response to:

rowsbywoof wrote:
Quote:
The build on this does look pretty dope, though.


How stupid do people regard other people that they think they need to explain that a prototype might not be the same as the final product?


I explained it. Not because I think people are stupid, but because it's not clear from the clip or from your initial comment that it is a tour made sample, and that, like the Deepmind tour samples were, the construction is likely different than the final product.

It's not reasonable to assume that everyone knows what manufacturing practices are, what a trade show sample is and how it may differ from the final product. Or to say that explaining these things could only be done out of contempt for the reader's intelligence.
Panason


He says you can automate the filter but doesn't show it in action. Come on , make the tuning automatable too, pretty please.

I see they have reversed the order of the coloured buttons, presumably so as to reduce the risk of Roland slapping them down (again)
DiscoDevil
I checked this out at Knobcon. It sounds good but does not sound like an 808, IMO. Cheap build quality and ugly as others have stated. You get what you pay for, I'm sure.
Willis3000
DiscoDevil wrote:
I checked this out at Knobcon. It sounds good but does not sound like an 808, IMO. Cheap build quality and ugly as others have stated. You get what you pay for, I'm sure.


Indeed you get what you pay for. No innovation from this company so they will never get my money.
umma gumma
I will wait for the TR808 vs RD808 comparisons
dubonaire
DiscoDevil wrote:
I checked this out at Knobcon. It sounds good but does not sound like an 808, IMO. Cheap build quality and ugly as others have stated. You get what you pay for, I'm sure.


It doesn't sound like an 808 in that clip above. Behringer would have been better off just making its own brand drum machine and not making a poor ugly copy. It makes no sense. Anyway, there will never be a Behringer in my studio so not really that concerned.
felixer
dubonaire wrote:

It doesn't sound like an 808 in that clip above. Behringer would have been better off just making its own brand drum machine

so i fact they have made a new drummachine. ugly or not. so there is no problem. except for those who still are craving after a machine that sounds like the 80ies. i'd rather get the new soma. but that one is a bit more expensive ...
Panason
The BROMA semi modular drum machine, coming soon
dubonaire
felixer wrote:
dubonaire wrote:

It doesn't sound like an 808 in that clip above. Behringer would have been better off just making its own brand drum machine

so i fact they have made a new drummachine. ugly or not. so there is no problem. except for those who still are craving after a machine that sounds like the 80ies. i'd rather get the new soma. but that one is a bit more expensive ...


I guess I just meant they have made it look uglier by trying to copy the 808 look and then add buttons which simply do not match, plus the 808 interface is quite limited.
burn the elastic
Willis3000 wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
I checked this out at Knobcon. It sounds good but does not sound like an 808, IMO. Cheap build quality and ugly as others have stated. You get what you pay for, I'm sure.


Indeed you get what you pay for. No innovation from this company so they will never get my money.


Isn't this the whole point though?

Don't like the company?...don't buy it

Don't like the looks?...don't buy it

Disagrees about your morals and how you live your life?...don't buy it

Like the sounds but don't like the build quality?...don't buy it

As always, let your wallet do the talking as will other people doing the same thing
anselmi
Panason wrote:
The BROMA semi modular drum machine, coming soon


funny enough, "broma" means "joke" in spanish hihi
Panason
Yeah, that was deliberate. It also means "dirt" in Greek. lol


People, if you think the BR 808 is pointless, and you want something just as pointless but also expensive: (stay awake and no sniggering at the back of the class!)



lol
daveholiday
DiscoDevil wrote:
I checked this out at Knobcon. It sounds good but does not sound like an 808, IMO. Cheap build quality and ugly as others have stated. You get what you pay for, I'm sure.


The brain is the ultimate distortion device...If you walk up to a drum machine thinking it will never sound like an 808......Tah-dah!!! IT WON'T! But, its not magic, it is just biased perception. I am guilty of it as well but I tried to let my ears do the talking this year at knobcon and was pleasantly surprised with the Roland VA stuff! I know full well that the System 8 is just a softsynth in a fullsized keyboard case with knobs. But it really sounded good to my ears...enought to make me ponder the fate of my nord lead....another softsynth in a box....

Double blind tests are the only way to eliminate the bias of the brain...but the internet doesn't care about that.

I too played with the RD-808 at knobcon....and I thought that it sounded remarkably like an 808. Much like the MIAMI this is made with reliable modern components so it may not sound like "true" 808s with electronics pushing 40 years old now!

Disco...No disrespect, we have a common bond in our choice of 303 clones! And I am not ashamed to admit that I have had a TB-303, XOXbox, and an Avalon Bassline......they are all gone, but I still have my 3 Syntecno TeeBees. They are the sound that I like...they are a bit more forward and punchy at times, but that is what I am used to!

BTW I really liked the sound of the Roland TB-03 when I played with it....but with the gear I have...not a necessary item!
numan7
dubonaire wrote:
Anyway, there will never be a Behringer in my studio so not really that concerned.


meh you seem like such a virtue signaling asshat when you post such stuff in behringer gear threads, mister db... but otherwise you seem pretty cool.... so i dunno! seriously, i just don't get it


cheers
dubonaire
numan7 wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
Anyway, there will never be a Behringer in my studio so not really that concerned.


meh you seem like such a virtue signaling asshat when you post such stuff in behringer gear threads, mister db... but otherwise you seem pretty cool.... so i dunno! seriously, i just don't get it


cheers


So I don't virtue signal. I'm not posting here so that people think I'm virtuous. I really couldn't care if people who I've never met, and who don't know who I am, think I'm virtuous or not based on some words. I don't establish my sense of self worth through this forum. I just give my opinion, and in this case stated my intentions. I don't think I've ever made a consumer choice based solely on a company's behaviour, and I've certainly bought products from companies with dubious ethics. I probably would choose not to buy a baby harp seal fur coat though.

For me it's a sum of the parts thing with Behringer, if they made stunning equipment I'd probably think about overlooking the unsavoury company attributes, but they don't. So I'd rather shop for other brands. I find everything about the company unappealing.

I've never suggested people should not buy Behringer, and I don't have some obsessive dislike of the company. In fact if you followed my posts on Behringer you would see I've expressed that the articles regarding worker conditions need to be regarded with caution. But I do dislike the company, and I want to feel free to post that dislike. And honestly, I care less than my posts would imply, but I do care when people start calling having an opinion virtue signalling, whether it was directed at me or not, because it effectively means the only valid opinions are the ones that might lack virtue. It's an extremely destructive criticism, reduced from its original context into a simplistic social media derogatory figure of speech, that forums can do without. Even if the virtue-signalling might seem obvious to someone, it's still purely speculation about someone's psychological motives for posting, mainly because the accuser doesn't like what's being said.

Anyway, that's my last comment on the matter in this thread.
Sinamsis
I don't understand why all these discussions have to break down into personal attacks. It's not a good look numan7.
flashheart
Agreed. That type of post belongs on GS, not here.
DiscoDevil
daveholiday wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
I checked this out at Knobcon. It sounds good but does not sound like an 808, IMO. Cheap build quality and ugly as others have stated. You get what you pay for, I'm sure.


The brain is the ultimate distortion device...If you walk up to a drum machine thinking it will never sound like an 808......Tah-dah!!! IT WON'T! But, its not magic, it is just biased perception.


Or I know what my own 808 sounds like well enough to be able to compare it to something that is supposed to be a clone and hear the difference between them. It sounded like a good analog drum machine but the hats and snare especially were not very 808. Kick, clave, etc sounded pretty close.
Muzone
Sinamsis wrote:
I don't understand why all these discussions have to break down into personal attacks.......


......because there's a few of the regulars who seem quite adept in provoking this kind of behaviour, then they can bask in the subsequent self righteous sausage-fest fap fap fap...
DiscoDevil
daveholiday wrote:
Disco...No disrespect, we have a common bond in our choice of 303 clones! And I am not ashamed to admit that I have had a TB-303, XOXbox, and an Avalon Bassline......they are all gone, but I still have my 3 Syntecno TeeBees. They are the sound that I like...they are a bit more forward and punchy at times, but that is what I am used to!

BTW I really liked the sound of the Roland TB-03 when I played with it....but with the gear I have...not a necessary item!


I still have my TeeBee but really only use it for the ring mod sound. The Avalon has taken over pretty much all of that duty in the studio. Even my TB-303 sits unused most of the time.
Sinamsis
Muzone wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I don't understand why all these discussions have to break down into personal attacks.......


......because there's a few of the regulars who seem quite adept in provoking this kind of behaviour, then they can bask in the subsequent self righteous sausage-fest fap fap fap...


Yeah, I dunno. I disagree. It's not hard to have a little class.
numan7
Panason
Quote:

???
Sinamsis
Haha this place becomes more and more like Gearslutz. Even with veteran members. The need to ignore someone when they call you out for name calling like a child is pretty funny, but to feel the need to post about it is even more comical. Which just proves the point that these threads bring out the worst in people.
tenembre
Slated for release in March, per Synthtopia

If the voices can be triggered by midi I'm in - at $300 it'll be a fine sound module

(And I'm guessing that trigger inputs wouldn't be terribly difficult to add either)

AdamJay
Those knobs are WAY bigger than TR-808.

If this drops the price of used M1AM1s down to $500-$600, then I am all for it.
h4ndcrafted
Better idea of the finished sounds

anselmi
EPTC
Fuuuuck. Fine, I'll buy one. Sounds pretty gorgeous.

Nice to see Moot getting a moment, too.
calaveras
2029; a blasted hellscape of old synths. The Behringer-Cyberdyne hunter killers mercilessly hunt down every last Roland, Moog and Arp.
Humans are forced to live on scraps, like mice.
neonmercury1
hihi
calaveras wrote:
2029; a blasted hellscape of old synths. The Behringer-Cyberdyne hunter killers mercilessly hunt down every last Roland, Moog and Arp.
Humans are forced to live on scraps, like mice.


TBH im not super stoked on these but i might feel differently once they are 200 used. Ive been gassing for a machine drum pretty hard for the last month and after hearing another 808 im just non-plussed. Yeah it sounds great but i guess those sounds just arent tickling my nickle right now.
Mind Flayer
The behringer 808 sounds lovely to me. I’ll definitely be getting one.
luketeaford
808s are such a classic sound (although to be honest a sound I think is boring unless it's a genre convention). Will be glad to see more people getting access to these. Weird thing about patents: its meant to encourage innovation but sometimes demand remains so high for the classics that there is no reason to innovate...
anselmi
thanks god they didn't say that it's a "collaboration" with Roland! hihi
Monotremata
Here's to hoping that 909 is right behind it!
Panason
Damn the video started and was sounding great, then this guy started talking..... coitus interruptus man! STFU!
h4ndcrafted
Panason wrote:
Damn the video started and was sounding great, then this guy started talking..... coitus interruptus man! STFU!


That will be why Ilinked this video...

lilakmonoke
sounds phantastic! it even has this slightly papery compression on the summing which is where all the digital copies and analog modules fail. an 808 has to sound fat and thin at the same time, for lack of a better word.

is the midas crew behind this again? these folks know how to microdesign analog circuits like nobody else on the planet. i just got a midas venice 240 mixer and its pure analog bliss, im not kidding.
IR
How come Cyclone Analogic had to change the look of their clone, when the current TR-08 looks as much as the Behringer as does the TB-03 in comparison with the original? Not to mention the SH-101.

Are they afraid of suing larger companies?
cake100
I was not bothered about this before the recent demos of it, but I may change my mind. Same with the 909 if that sounds good.
I am more curious about their 999 original drum machine that may be released this year.
Orange
I think I want the 909 clone. Nice for the price....
Jean Luc Cougar
IR wrote:
How come Cyclone Analogic had to change the look of their clone, when the current TR-08 looks as much as the Behringer as does the TB-03 in comparison with the original? Not to mention the SH-101.

Are they afraid of suing larger companies?


In all honesty it probably is about legal costs:

1. Cyclone likely can’t justify the legal costs to investigate if they could copy the arthritic in advance
2. If/when pursued by Roland, Cyclone likely couldn’t afford to stand their ground against Roland whom likely has a legal team in each of their major markets.

Thus their only option is to not risk legal exposure.

Behringer likely has their own legal teams in their major markets, thus can do a risk assessment.


(This is all hypothesis based on working judgement and I am making no judgement on any of the parties involved)
toddADSR
Anyone know if real time pitch changes can be recorded by the internal sequencer or sent out over MIDI?
SingIt
cake100 wrote:
I was not bothered about this before the recent demos of it, but I may change my mind. Same with the 909 if that sounds good.
I am more curious about their 999 original drum machine that may be released this year.


Yeah, they said they were doing a Linn, a DMX and a 999. Does anyone know if that will happen? As much as I like the 808, I rarely use it as my main sound, and more for layering.
IR
SingIt wrote:
cake100 wrote:
I was not bothered about this before the recent demos of it, but I may change my mind. Same with the 909 if that sounds good.
I am more curious about their 999 original drum machine that may be released this year.


Yeah, they said they were doing a Linn, a DMX and a 999. Does anyone know if that will happen? As much as I like the 808, I rarely use it as my main sound, and more for layering.

You mean the Bolox Xface 999?


I have some of their pedals and use them, but they didn't copy the look that much. None of them looked like Boss pedals, but the Vintage Time Machine does look like a white Deluxe Memory Man. If they made it today, they'd probably make it in silver and call it the Deluxe Memory Chap or Deluxe Memory Fellow or Deluxe Memory Dude.

I'm not against them making cheap clones, but they're copying the look so much like they want to get sued out of existence, even using the same fonts and model numbers, and I believe they can be if all those companies got together.
anselmi
IR wrote:
I have some of their pedals and use them, but they didn't copy the look that much. None of them looked like Boss pedals, but the Vintage Time Machine does look like a white Deluxe Memory Man. If they made it today, they'd probably make it in silver and call it the Deluxe Memory Chap or Deluxe Memory Fellow or Deluxe Memory Dude.

I'm not against them making cheap clones, but they're copying the look so much like they want to get sued out of existence, even using the same fonts and model numbers, and I believe they can be if all those companies got together.


my conspiranoia theory is that Uli is now owner of a considerable part of Roland (maybe of other companies too) so no sued is possible...all is part of a master plan of market domination
gentle_attack
I'm of the opposite camp of almost everyone here.

Intellectual property laws (for tect at least) should only exist to prevent people who actually are producing something. Roland has made it abundantly clear they are not going to make an analog 808. At some point I think it should time out and other people, if they can reverse engineer, should get a go. Roland had a 3 decade headstart and simply, refused to do it.
lilakmonoke
copyrights are bollocks and for lawyers, anybody can build a 808 nowadays, its part of the electronic music heritage. rejoice that somebody finally got it right and doesnt charge you 3 grand for it!
Funky40
anselmi wrote:
thanks god they didn't say that it's a "collaboration" with Roland! hihi

lol
Red Electric Rainbow
this is gonna be tight.
umma gumma
lilakmonoke wrote:
copyrights are bollocks and for lawyers, anybody can build a 808 nowadays, its part of the electronic music heritage. rejoice that somebody finally got it right and doesnt charge you 3 grand for it!


yep I agree 100%

I am disappointed in Roland though: if they had done the same thing a few years ago it would have been amazing; a missed opportunity for sure

Since the founder of Roland passed away, it is probably run by a board of people who don't have the cohesion of a single director with a clear vision.

If I ran Roland, I would have had the R&D team working overtime to beat Uli to market, as soon as I heard the news. Actually if I ran Roland I would have given people what they wanted a long time ago grin
IR
anselmi wrote:
IR wrote:
I have some of their pedals and use them, but they didn't copy the look that much. None of them looked like Boss pedals, but the Vintage Time Machine does look like a white Deluxe Memory Man. If they made it today, they'd probably make it in silver and call it the Deluxe Memory Chap or Deluxe Memory Fellow or Deluxe Memory Dude.

I'm not against them making cheap clones, but they're copying the look so much like they want to get sued out of existence, even using the same fonts and model numbers, and I believe they can be if all those companies got together.


my conspiranoia theory is that Uli is now owner of a considerable part of Roland (maybe of other companies too) so no sued is possible...all is part of a master plan of market domination

There could be something to that if you look at the evolution of their ARP.
lilakmonoke
its much simpler. the key to rolands success was that their r&d department had golden ears, thats why they created all these classics. musical instruments are all about passion for sound.

dave smith doesnt get that, he is an engineer and his classics are almost accidental. ulli behringer gets it apparently and he is working with people like midas who definitely get it, imagine rupert neve developing a synth!
h4ndcrafted
toddADSR wrote:
Anyone know if real time pitch changes can be recorded by the internal sequencer or sent out over MIDI?


Pretty sure that’s a no, would been pretty dope to have a parameter sequencer on this thing.
phesago
gentle_attack wrote:
I'm of the opposite camp of almost everyone here.

Intellectual property laws (for tect at least) should only exist to prevent people who actually are producing something. Roland has made it abundantly clear they are not going to make an analog 808. At some point I think it should time out and other people, if they can reverse engineer, should get a go. Roland had a 3 decade headstart and simply, refused to do it.


Copy right laws exist for a reason. And they have an expiration for the same set of reasons. I like what theyre doing because its going to at some point force other companies hands into either making better products or providing the same type offerings.


I cant wait till March grin
Notron fn
There's patent law and then there's copyright law.

One thing I don't quite understand is trademark/ trade dress law.

You can put out a guitar that is for all intents and purposes a Stratocaster--but you can't put a fender-style headstock and sell it successfully in the USA these days. Same with trying to sell a guitar with a Gibson book scroll headstock.

I'm kinda surprised that Behringer is making an effort to duplicate the look of Sequential, ARP, Roland, Oberheim, etc.
Panason
toddADSR wrote:
Anyone know if real time pitch changes can be recorded by the internal sequencer or sent out over MIDI?


Sounds like it's a no to both. The guy in the video said only that you can control the pitch from MIDI input, not from the machine's sequencer... which is sad if it's the case..... I'd pay an extra €100 for that (and control of hihat decay) and another 100 for rigid plastic buttons. Cheapskates! meh
IR
I don't know about the build quality, but they sure didn't skimp on features, there's a ton of outputs on the back.

Here's my take on the legality now: they're just testing the waters and waiting for a response to see if they get sued. So far the only blatant copy they released (not circuits but look as well) is that Moog.

Of course there's also a chance that they'll get sued after they go into production, which is a gamble. I don't think they'll release all the clones at once.
tito_tunes
Have to admit I’m really gassing for this. Would love to find out more details of how the sequencing works for triplets trills and polyrhythms
gentle_attack
IR wrote:
I don't know about the build quality, but they sure didn't skimp on features, there's a ton of outputs on the back.

Here's my take on the legality now: they're just testing the waters and waiting for a response to see if they get sued. So far the only blatant copy they released (not circuits but look as well) is that Moog.

Of course there's also a chance that they'll get sued after they go into production, which is a gamble. I don't think they'll release all the clones at once.

Sued for...? What copyright is active on the 808?

This new Mother-32 knockoff, doesn't count because I'm a little iffy on that one tbh. I'm talking about legacy boxes that haven't been made in any for for 30+yrs.
suboptimal
The question is one of trade dress, probably. Patents would clearly prevent them from doing this, but presumably they're clever enough to avoid patents.
Chances are good that Behringer's lawyers have already done this analysis from every potential IP angle.

In fact I think the real question is not whether Behringer gets sued, but whether everyone else in the industry needs to start pursuing radical new approaches to protect their work from being copied.

Unrelated: are these things cheap as chips solely because their entire design has been ripped off (no R&D to recoup) or are they also cheaply built?
CF3
Mind Flayer wrote:
The behringer 808 sounds lovely to me. I’ll definitely be getting one.


Amen.

Save the drama for your mama, cause for $300.... I”m buying it. Might even wait awhile pick one up used for mid-$200’s. Either way, I WILL HAVE ONE nanners
lilakmonoke
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.
Chopper
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.


http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/behringer-rd-808-coming-i n-march-for-299-roland-tr-808-clone/
Blairio
gentle_attack wrote:
IR wrote:
I don't know about the build quality, but they sure didn't skimp on features, there's a ton of outputs on the back.

Here's my take on the legality now: they're just testing the waters and waiting for a response to see if they get sued. So far the only blatant copy they released (not circuits but look as well) is that Moog.

Of course there's also a chance that they'll get sued after they go into production, which is a gamble. I don't think they'll release all the clones at once.

Sued for...? What copyright is active on the 808?

This new Mother-32 knockoff, doesn't count because I'm a little iffy on that one tbh. I'm talking about legacy boxes that haven't been made in any for for 30+yrs.


Copyright refers to IP in print. I think patent applies here. From memory, within the USA, patent runs for 20 years from the time the patent was registered. A patent lawyer would know whether patents can be extended.
nectarios
Chopper wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.


http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/behringer-rd-808-coming-i n-march-for-299-roland-tr-808-clone/

Damn...it has pitch on the kick too that responds to MIDI...for 300 I am getting one too, just to jam the thing with the modular. The pitch and other extras are a big deal to me...better than the TR-808, yes!

I've recorded original Rolands, TR-909 and TR-808 (and TR-606) and found the TR-808 sounding much better straight out of the box and was actually surprised the TR-909 did not sound nearly as good as I've heard it on records, where of course, lots of processing was what made the TR-909 sound the way it did.

I also like techno that has more 808 vide, than 909. Blasphemer I might be, yes, but the 808 is the vintage drum machine king for me.
CF3
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.


My bad. Still 600 is way cheaper than the next 808 clone. The Acidlab one was like what? $1300? , and build quality wasn’t exactly great. Janky knobs and cheap buttons. I don’t get all the hate for this. Some people do clones and they’re hero’s like Roman/Black Corp. Others do them and they’re a villain. Weird cognitive dissonance.
nectarios
CF3 wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.


My bad. Still 600 is way cheaper than the next 808 clone.

600 gets you 2x RD-808s.

The unit costs 299USD.
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/behringer-rd-808-coming-i n-march-for-299-roland-tr-808-clone/
CF3
nectarios wrote:
CF3 wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.


My bad. Still 600 is way cheaper than the next 808 clone.

600 gets you 2x RD-808s.

The unit costs 299USD.
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/behringer-rd-808-coming-i n-march-for-299-roland-tr-808-clone/


Thats what i thought hmmm.....
Thats why i said 300 in my original post. But sometimes my brain is not the best so I wouldn’t argue if somebody said different.
suboptimal
CF3 wrote:
I don’t get all the hate for this.


I'm not exactly a huge fan of Behringer's business model (though they are a symptom, not a cause), but I agree with you here. The 808 is ancient tech and someone putting out a cheap clone is long overdue. This is true of a lot of their clones. They're the equivalent of a generic drug. The 808 came out in 1980. It's as though someone in 1980 came up with a copy of something originally released in 1941 and people said, "But surely they owe it to Stalin to not copy his tank!"
h4ndcrafted
I have to admit to being a bit bored of the 808 sound, the only thing Istill love is the dusty toms and congas.

I’ve been getting really nice synth drums out of Korg Wave iOS groove box app. I find it excellent for this. Wavetables seem to be excellent for drum making.

I sold my Yocto , but with the analogue transient designer and midi it is tempting just for the toms,clap and trigger sequencing.

I really wanna see a proper Juno 106 from them, a desktop version. I know they kind of released one.
lilakmonoke
Chopper wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
cause for $300.... I”m buying it.


keep dreaming ... its 599.-, there are around 2000 components in an analog 808. thats why roland prefers the fake digital route.


http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/24/behringer-rd-808-coming-i n-march-for-299-roland-tr-808-clone/


fuck me, you are right. i saw an older video where 599.- was mentioned. seriously now, you cant buy the parts for an 808 for 299.- so my guess is behringer will put these out a production cost to mop up the market. everybody and his brother will buy one at 299.-, thats a ridiculous price - my model D was 340.-
A Terre
This will be the piece of gear that gets me on the Behringer train. The Deepmind was great the couple of times I played it, but this has me really excited.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
This will be the piece of gear that gets me on the Behringer train.


see, its working because that is exactly the idea behind it.
A Terre
I'm fine with it. I'm not sure that I buy that this will be out in March, though. That came from that Synthanatomy post and everybody seemed to have just run with it as fact. I haven't seen Behringer say anything official about it. I hope I'll be proven wrong and it does come out in March!
fonfroggin
is anyone else not too thrilled about the sound of it? I know its youtube demos, and I hope it sounds better in person, but on a decent set of speakers of phones its still pretty easy if a synth or drum machine has the special sauce on it.

i know its really cheap, so not much room to complain i realize, but i was hoping it was going to have a better sound.

on stage itd be great tho
Biom
Same here...
At first glance it's amazing, but then after a while it starts to sound weird. Not only the kick (maybe because of the tune option, which is totally useless to me), but the whole kit. What always amazed me in real 808 - the way all its instruments gel in a perfect groove. It just begs you to use all of them at once. 100% transcendent feeling, so you can't even complain, but the clones and all other drum machines always missed that for me, sounding too "discreet".
The only thing I enjoyed was that Yocto. Not sure what's inside, but if I had a real 808, would sell the thing to grab the Yocto and something else.

Curious to know other's opinion. The youtube comments seem very positive though
fonfroggin
Biom wrote:
Same here...
At first glance it's amazing, but then after a while it starts to sound weird. Not only the kick (maybe because of the tune option, which is totally useless to me), but the whole kit. What always amazed me in real 808 - the way all its instruments gel in a perfect groove. It just begs you to use all of them at once. 100% transcendent feeling, so you can't even complain, but the clones and all other drum machines always missed that for me, sounding too "discreet".
The only thing I enjoyed was that Yocto. Not sure what's inside, but if I had a real 808, would sell the thing to grab the Yocto and something else.

Curious to know other's opinion. The youtube comments seem very positive though


Yeah the yocto always sounded like how I would want a clone to sound. Things just seem to gel and fit well together, its both soft and punchy. I really want to love the b808, but it seems to have this weird unpleasant, almost plasticky quality to it for me. Live i think its probably terrific, but in a studio i would pass. Im sure they will sell loads of em, and everyone seems to love it so surely we are in the wrong smile
suboptimal
It's an 808 clone. Of course people think it doesn't sound like the original. meh
anselmi
Biom wrote:
What always amazed me in real 808 - the way all its instruments gel in a perfect groove


I think the same...also valid for the 909...you make a house pattern on it and it INSTANTLY sounds like a recording, that´s mean, a produced track...I don´t know what it is, but never achieved this with samples or a TR-8

The demos sounds plain, without this mojo...I don´t know why...just want to hear it in person and next to the real one

The yocto and nava have this extra stuff on them, as well as the 8raw8...this last one has the most killer demos, even with external sequencing, so I think the sequencer has little to do with the special factor

or no... seriously, i just don't get it
JediDJ
What to expect from a cheap clone.
It works and functions. Already an achievement. )
And looks like a 808.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
What to expect from a cheap clone.


you can always buy an expensive clone and whine about it. yes, there is a fair amount of distortion and compression going on in these circuits from the 80s. thats why just summing samples never sounds the sample, its too precise. i think the be-808 is doing a good job at that, much better than the acidlab miami which sounds nothing like an 808 and is all analog as well.

for me the main difference will be in the timing because the clock of an 808 is based on an analog vco and the be-808 most probably not - im guessing here.
Panason
The Yocto and 8Raw8 lack the autofill and a/b functions which made the original a joy to play with, so they're kind of lame.
Biom
anselmi wrote:


I think the same...also valid for the 909...you make a house pattern on it and it INSTANTLY sounds like a recording, that´s mean, a produced track...I don´t know what it is, but never achieved this with samples or a TR-8

The demos sounds plain, without this mojo...I don´t know why...just want to hear it in person and next to the real one

The yocto and nava have this extra stuff on them, as well as the 8raw8...this last one has the most killer demos, even with external sequencing, so I think the sequencer has little to do with the special factor

or no... seriously, i just don't get it


Agreed. So many times I've seen someone hammering random notes in a sequencer, pure nonsense, but then it was magically groovy, all the time.
lilakmonoke
its the timing, gentlemen, not the sounds. ive been researching that for a long time because i program my own sequencer clocks. its an analog masterclock clock and a few interlocking subclocks that generate timing drifts and interference patterns ... sort of like a real drummer. a 909 has timing "errors" of up to 5 ms which is almost exactly what you measure with top level studio drummers.

it always baffles me that there are all these copies around and nobody seems to understand that the soul of an analog drum machine is the timing because they all run with ultra precise microprocessors and sound perfectly mechanical.

a while back we had an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108176&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0
MindMachine
Whether it sounds like a real 808 (I doubt it does) doesn't matter to me. I am just stoked to see an affordable analog drum machine with individual outs. I am into processing and modular integration, so this will be cooler than my Yamaha RX-5 (which has individual outs), because it seems even easier to use.

For the price of a Euro module... I will indulge.
JediDJ
The timing of old 909 was awful a bit.
Some person at Gearslutz did the measurements.
Kick drum floated badly compared to AKAI MPC 60.
Biom
lilakmonoke wrote:
its the timing, gentlemen, not the sounds. ive been researching that for a long time because i program my own sequencer clocks. its an analog masterclock clock and a few interlocking subclocks that generate timing drifts and interference patterns ... sort of like a real drummer. a 909 has timing "errors" of up to 5 ms which is almost exactly what you measure with top level studio drummers.

it always baffles me that there are all these copies around and nobody seems to understand that the soul of an analog drum machine is the timing because they all run with ultra precise microprocessors and sound perfectly mechanical.

a while back we had an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108176&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0


Define top level studio drummers.
Jazz, funk, metal, pop? If you ever worked with drummers, you know, how differently they will play the same pattern and it has nothing to do with jitter or timing.
As my friend loves to say: "funk is a lifestyle first and then the music".
I mean, it's a bit funny to compare a drum machine to a real drummer in 2019. Isn't it more efficient to compare drummers with drummers and machines with machines? Although, the combination of the two is one of the most inspiring thing in electronic music.

I don't know, what the soul of a drum machine is and if it has any, but to me it's the sound that comes first. No sequencer obsession at all, except it being handy.
I have tried millions of possible ways creating a kick drum, for instance, but still find it impossible to get any close to 808.

@MindMachine: have a look at the Vermona as well. It can even do FX insert within its own mixer.
milkshake
lilakmonoke wrote:
its the timing, gentlemen, not the sounds. ive been researching that for a long time because i program my own sequencer clocks. its an analog masterclock clock and a few interlocking subclocks that generate timing drifts and interference patterns ... sort of like a real drummer. a 909 has timing "errors" of up to 5 ms which is almost exactly what you measure with top level studio drummers.

it always baffles me that there are all these copies around and nobody seems to understand that the soul of an analog drum machine is the timing because they all run with ultra precise microprocessors and sound perfectly mechanical.

a while back we had an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108176&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0


I think your spot on.
The tr series has timing issues, that are a significant part of the groove.

It holds me back on buying the quicksilver os for the 606 and 303. I just don't know how it will effect the timing. So if someone can shed a light on this, it's much appreciated.
JediDJ
I think those timing issues must be sounding nice.
Because there are awful issues exist in a world of external midi.
Take an old USB midi interface (MOTU MTP AV) and plug it
into WIN7 machine and feel that awful timing especially paired with
Cubase.
Nothing to do with a groove or swing.
The whole composition can drift a couple of BPMs from start to finish !
Tested.

But 808 and 909 issues lie within a pattern, some internal groove is cooking.
Just plain unswinged rhythm drifts a bit. But does it musically.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
milkshake wrote:

It holds me back on buying the quicksilver os for the 606 and 303. I just don't know how it will effect the timing. So if someone can shed a light on this, it's much appreciated.

afaik quicksilver cpu's for 303 and 606 are no longer available to buy.
Panason
It seemed to work out alright for the people who used it to make records.

The Ulinator may well have a 303 clone in the works and it may have mods built in. A silver box with extra knobs has been vaguely sighted.
They really ought to call it P0pc0rn for the online drama it is guaranteed to create if true. nanners
Fallen_lassen
Der ulinator’s assline Miley Cyrus
Panason
Drunken Homer Simpson
Chopper
Well...

https://www.residentadvisor.net/news/43237
dubnspace
Chopper wrote:
Well...

https://www.residentadvisor.net/news/43237


yep they trademarked the color layout of the buttons... bfd
h4ndcrafted
Do people really want it to look like an 808? I guess they might be more inclined to think it sounds better?

I would have liked to of seen a modern take on the design, maybe use a different colour scheme? But with a more minimalist modern typeface.
Something clean and smooth like the waldorfs and Poland’s tr8s
Panason
Quote:


Roland files for trademarks on its TB-303 and TR-808 designs


Utter losers.
lol lol lol
Biom
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Do people really want it to look like an 808? I guess they might be more inclined to think it sounds better?


I think it is about our perception, rather than sound. Simple example: if you go outside, your mind has to be 100% sure, that a street lamp you see is actually a street lamp and a tree is indeed a tree, otherwise you'll be frustrated.
808's are as deep in our lives as trees and lamps, so it's just easier to perceive an 808 with 808 authentic look (which Behringer is pretty bad at, I think), rather than waldorf look or a pioneer cdj look.
Saying that, I would buy an 808 bass drum in a Jomox Mbase format with whatever ugly visual interface there is and keep it far from my eyes when not using it)

Just reminding myself how many times this visual aspect of the gear stopped me from buying it.
h4ndcrafted
Thing is they can do nice interfaces when they want. The X touch series looks good.
GNSDG
lilakmonoke wrote:
its the timing, gentlemen, not the sounds. ive been researching that for a long time because i program my own sequencer clocks. its an analog masterclock clock and a few interlocking subclocks that generate timing drifts and interference patterns ... sort of like a real drummer. a 909 has timing "errors" of up to 5 ms which is almost exactly what you measure with top level studio drummers.

it always baffles me that there are all these copies around and nobody seems to understand that the soul of an analog drum machine is the timing because they all run with ultra precise microprocessors and sound perfectly mechanical.

a while back we had an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108176&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0


That’s fascinating. It sounds like the clocking tech is readily reproducible, no?
anselmi
lilakmonoke wrote:
its the timing, gentlemen, not the sounds. ive been researching that for a long time because i program my own sequencer clocks. its an analog masterclock clock and a few interlocking subclocks that generate timing drifts and interference patterns ... sort of like a real drummer. a 909 has timing "errors" of up to 5 ms which is almost exactly what you measure with top level studio drummers.

it always baffles me that there are all these copies around and nobody seems to understand that the soul of an analog drum machine is the timing because they all run with ultra precise microprocessors and sound perfectly mechanical.

a while back we had an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108176&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0


Maybe...this is.an old myth...you can measure clocks and stuff but this doesn't have to b necesarely with the difference...maybe not alone

The 8raw8 dig it, and it lacks a sequencer, so maybe we are talking about different things, or maybe the clock stuff is not the only factor, or maybe it's a combination of different things...Where are the comparison between a 808/909 with its internal sequencer vs sequenced externally in a blind test?
Red Electric Rainbow
l really wiah they would have utilized the space a little more to include volume faders instead of volume knobs. it makes it more of a playable instrument IMO
Panason
anselmi wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
its the timing, gentlemen, not the sounds. ive been researching that for a long time because i program my own sequencer clocks. its an analog masterclock clock and a few interlocking subclocks that generate timing drifts and interference patterns ... sort of like a real drummer. a 909 has timing "errors" of up to 5 ms which is almost exactly what you measure with top level studio drummers.

it always baffles me that there are all these copies around and nobody seems to understand that the soul of an analog drum machine is the timing because they all run with ultra precise microprocessors and sound perfectly mechanical.

a while back we had an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108176&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0


Maybe...this is.an old myth...


I agree. AFAIK Mr Roger Linn himself has refuted that there was some special mojo in vintage drum machine clocks. I think the 808 simply has a small amount of swing built in - intentionally or not-rather than random variations, which would not sound good.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
AFAIK Mr Roger Linn himself has refuted that there was some special mojo in vintage drum machine clocks.


roger linn is an engineer, not a musician i doubt he can hear the difference :-) i love this topic, every time i bring this up all hell breaks lose.

its not a myth at all, here is a simple test that you can do: if you have a 606/808/909 record 3 minutes of a simple pattern without tempo synch and then take it in your daw. you can immediately see that the tempo drifts around an imaginary BPM in a breathing way, not random - which is exactly what real drummers do, they synch to the "pocket". thats why analog drum machines sound so organic.

why the drift? the best description of the timing mechanics behind those machines is in this analysis of the 303 cpu by the guy behind sonic potions:

http://sonic-potions.com/Documentation/Analysis_of_the_D650C-133_CPU_t iming.pdf

what is organic timing? its all about synching between independent clocks. there is quite a bit of research around this but the best summary comes from james holden an electronic musician who has been experimenting with timing for years and written a max patch for synching a sequencer to real musicians:

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/james-holden-human-timing/

here he is live with a band, listen to the timing and the crowd reaction:

http://vimeo.com/119763896

finally here is an amazing mix by mark fell. this is new york house music from around 88-92 so no daw but synched machines recorded to tape. lots of roland drum machines, high end analog audio production and a totally different groove than all the contemporary "sample precise" ableton house garbage. now, if you cant hear the difference you are an engineer ;-)

https://www.mixcloud.com/secretthirteen/secret-thirteen-mix-073-mark-f ell/

anyways all this goes to prove that the analog roland drum machines were not only designed by engineers. im sure they tweaked them until the timing sounded just perfect - and that to me is the magic of these machines.

im not sure that can be easily reproduced with a microprocesssor just like VA still doesnt sound like real analog. you sure could replicate the timing circuits but its so much damned easier to not do that and as long as everybody thinks no timing = good timing its not going to happen i think.

.
.
toxoplasma_gondii
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
AFAIK Mr Roger Linn himself has refuted that there was some special mojo in vintage drum machine clocks.


roger linn is an engineer, not a musician i doubt he can hear the difference :-) i love this topic, every time i bring this up all hell breaks lose.
.


Roger Linn is a musician. He has worked as a touring guitarist and co-written several hit songs.
chvad
toxoplasma_gondii wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
AFAIK Mr Roger Linn himself has refuted that there was some special mojo in vintage drum machine clocks.


roger linn is an engineer, not a musician i doubt he can hear the difference :-) i love this topic, every time i bring this up all hell breaks lose.
.


Roger Linn is a musician. He has worked as a touring guitarist and co-written several hit songs.


all true!
Panason
It's all academic but the house swing is still being done (eg check recent DJ sets by Green Velvet on YT).. it's mostly sampled 909 loops but you can get the same groove with an MPC or a DAW with the right groove template ... occasionally you will hear a track that is clearly not a 909 but still has that swing.

I think people ascribe more sophistication to Roland's engineers than was actually there... let's not forget that the 303 and 808 were not sold as awesome future techno machines and they were commercial flops.

Roland's drum machine releases after the 909 confirm this - they didn't really have a clue and likely didn't care much for what a bunch of hip hop guys in Detroit were doing...
lilakmonoke
Quote:
Roger Linn is a musician. He has worked as a touring guitarist and co-written several hit songs.


i dont know the man but if he claims there is nothing special about the timing of a 909 or like i once heard him say the old mpcs then i suspect he doesnt hear it. these timing "errors" are around 0.5 - 5 ms and can easily be measured ie. there is a scientific software called "sonic visualizer" that will show you even the tiniest tempo drift and jitter.

anyways its a fascinating subject just like the difference between bernard purdie and steve gadd is only a few milliseconds but purdie can do 20 minutes of talking without drift and not miss a single beat :-)

umma gumma
Bernard Purdie is the man!!
anselmi
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
AFAIK Mr Roger Linn himself has refuted that there was some special mojo in vintage drum machine clocks.


roger linn is an engineer, not a musician i doubt he can hear the difference :-) i love this topic, every time i bring this up all hell breaks lose.

its not a myth at all, here is a simple test that you can do: if you have a 606/808/909 record 3 minutes of a simple pattern without tempo synch and then take it in your daw. you can immediately see that the tempo drifts around an imaginary BPM in a breathing way, not random - which is exactly what real drummers do, they synch to the "pocket". thats why analog drum machines sound so organic.

why the drift? the best description of the timing mechanics behind those machines is in this analysis of the 303 cpu by the guy behind sonic potions:

http://sonic-potions.com/Documentation/Analysis_of_the_D650C-133_CPU_t iming.pdf

what is organic timing? its all about synching between independent clocks. there is quite a bit of research around this but the best summary comes from james holden an electronic musician who has been experimenting with timing for years and written a max patch for synching a sequencer to real musicians:

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/james-holden-human-timing/

here he is live with a band, listen to the timing and the crowd reaction:

http://vimeo.com/119763896

finally here is an amazing mix by mark fell. this is new york house music from around 88-92 so no daw but synched machines recorded to tape. lots of roland drum machines, high end analog audio production and a totally different groove than all the contemporary "sample precise" ableton house garbage. now, if you cant hear the difference you are an engineer ;-)

https://www.mixcloud.com/secretthirteen/secret-thirteen-mix-073-mark-f ell/

anyways all this goes to prove that the analog roland drum machines were not only designed by engineers. im sure they tweaked them until the timing sounded just perfect - and that to me is the magic of these machines.

im not sure that can be easily reproduced with a microprocesssor just like VA still doesnt sound like real analog. you sure could replicate the timing circuits but its so much damned easier to not do that and as long as everybody thinks no timing = good timing its not going to happen i think.

.
.


well, according to your (above) posted paper, the random errors of a sequencer are unmusical... the tempo shifting have to have a certain linking between the notes to be musical, so this discard every drum machine that doesn't be programmed with this paradigm in mind.
I think there's no one, and for sure the 808/909/303/Linn/MPC doesn´t have it.

Quote:
The first has had completely random timing errors inserted, with no link between any previous timing error and the current one, and no link between the errors in different parts. The result sounds unmistakably unmusical and inhuman.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
Bernard Purdie is the man!!


they dont call him "bigfoot" for nothing! here he is with steely dan. all groove, no chops ;-) just bassdrum and snare does it. no drum machine can do that yet.



Quote:
the random errors of a sequencer are unmusical


exactly! the "errors" of an analog drum machine are not random at all, they are a result of a few interlocking and synching clocks that weirdly enough sound just right to me. nothing is random in analog and all the "humanizer" settings in daws are based on random and completely wrong. there is also nothing random about bernard purdie!
anselmi
lilakmonoke wrote:
its not a myth at all, here is a simple test that you can do: if you have a 606/808/909 record 3 minutes of a simple pattern without tempo synch and then take it in your daw. you can immediately see that the tempo drifts around an imaginary BPM in a breathing way, not random - which is exactly what real drummers do, they synch to the "pocket". thats why analog drum machines sound so organic.


I´m not saying that the drift is a myth, I´m saying that the relationship between the drift and something "special" is a myth

Quote:
here he is live with a band, listen to the timing and the crowd reaction:

http://vimeo.com/119763896


1. I don´t know why do you link the crowd reaction with human timing...I can show you a kraftwerk concert with people criying of joy while listening to straight machine-tempo music

2. he should put the delay under the same control

Quote:
finally here is an amazing mix by mark fell. this is new york house music from around 88-92 so no daw but synched machines recorded to tape. lots of roland drum machines, high end analog audio production and a totally different groove than all the contemporary "sample precise" ableton house garbage. now, if you cant hear the difference you are an engineer ;-)

https://www.mixcloud.com/secretthirteen/secret-thirteen-mix-073-mark-f ell/



again: it´s very hard to state that the time shifting of the machines used in this recording are what people likes

If you show me the same track with and without time shifting as the only difference and a blind test with a significant difference in preferences I´ll be convinced
if not, you´re a believer...which is OK, but don´t try to justify it


Quote:
anyways all this goes to prove that the analog roland drum machines were not only designed by engineers. im sure they tweaked them until the timing sounded just perfect - and that to me is the magic of these machines.


man, at the time this people barely knows what the customers want!
most of the roland X0X machines wasn´t a big success when released.
do you really believe that there´s an intentional clock tweak?

Quote:
im not sure that can be easily reproduced with a microprocesssor just like VA still doesnt sound like real analog. you sure could replicate the timing circuits but its so much damned easier to not do that and as long as everybody thinks no timing = good timing its not going to happen i think.


hmmm.....
seriously, i just don't get it
anselmi
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
Bernard Purdie is the man!!


they dont call him "bigfoot" for nothing! here he is with steely dan. all groove, no chops ;-) just bassdrum and snare does it. (start at 1:19) no drum machine can do that yet.



Quote:
the random errors of a sequencer are unmusical


exactly! the "errors" of an analog drum machine are not random at all, they are a result of a few interlocking and synching clocks that weirdly enough sound just right to me. nothing is random in analog and all the "humanizer" settings in daws are based on random and completely wrong. there is also nothing random about bernard purdie!


"interlocking and synching clocks" in an analog drum machine? hmmm.....
please lead me to your source
lilakmonoke
Quote:
please lead me to your source


its in this paper that i posted a page ago. this is the 303 but all these machines have the same cpu:

http://sonic-potions.com/Documentation/Analysis_of_the_D650C-133_CPU_t iming.pdf

im no hardware expert but the way i understand this paper there is a masterclock which is an analog vco, so there is your drift because all analog vcos drift more or less. then there is one clock that runs the sequencer and one clock that runs the user interface which are interlocked by regular interrupts. these generate interference patterns and jitter.

all this is dependent on the machine (606 being the most stable, 909 the most organic), room temperature, the tempo of the sequencer, the user interface load and settings and probably the components and the mood of the operator. so any "groove templates" or audio loops for this are complete bullshit.

i swear every time i have this discussion somebody is trying to convince me im imagining things. ive been programming my own timing mechanics in pure data for a few years so i know exactly what im hearing and what not. believe it or not :-)
lilakmonoke
Quote:
it´s very hard to state that the time shifting of the machines used in this recording are what people likes


there is nothing wrong with grid based "mechanical" timing but its only a tiny fraction of whats possible in music. in electronic music production its unfortunately the norm because all the daws are based on it. personally im more into the timing of black sabbath so thats why i started experimenting.

here is a black sabbath track i did with the clock AND the delay drifting with 909 settings. its just a sh-09 and two patterns but to me that sounds like somebody played it manually .. or at least it doesnt sound like the computer it is. you hear that difference ?


[s]https://soundcloud.com/lilakmonoke/the-walking-leper-king[/s]
Flux302
I have the RD-808 here... I gotta say it is a ton of fun. I did this quick video just to kinda show how the unit sounds quickly (as instagram videos over @flux302 on IG just were not showing the low end properly ...
tenembre
Flux302 wrote:
I have the RD-808 here... I gotta say it is a ton of fun. I did this quick video just to kinda show how the unit sounds quickly (as instagram videos over @flux302 on IG just were not showing the low end properly ...


Nice video. Sounds like a party!
anselmi
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
please lead me to your source


its in this paper that i posted a page ago. this is the 303 but all these machines have the same cpu:

http://sonic-potions.com/Documentation/Analysis_of_the_D650C-133_CPU_t iming.pdf

im no hardware expert but the way i understand this paper there is a masterclock which is an analog vco, so there is your drift because all analog vcos drift more or less. then there is one clock that runs the sequencer and one clock that runs the user interface which are interlocked by regular interrupts. these generate interference patterns and jitter.

all this is dependent on the machine (606 being the most stable, 909 the most organic), room temperature, the tempo of the sequencer, the user interface load and settings and probably the components and the mood of the operator. so any "groove templates" or audio loops for this are complete bullshit.

i swear every time i have this discussion somebody is trying to convince me im imagining things. ive been programming my own timing mechanics in pure data for a few years so i know exactly what im hearing and what not. believe it or not :-)



oh, man ... like I already said: yep, the papers exists, the drifts exists, but you are the one that concludes that this is something special

There is nothing in this paper that proves that this clock drift gives the 303, its mojo (EDIT: the paper also says it but without any prove, read my comments below)

I just wrote 2 times the kind of experiment that you have to run to prove this ... until this you can't relate both things

Quote:
0 INTRODUCTION
A lot of information about the inner workings of the 303
sequencer can be found on the internet [1], [2], but the ac-
curacy is sometimes questionable. To shed some light on
the timing of the original μPD650C-133 CPU and end the
speculations and misinformation exact measurements were
needed. In this paper we discuss the findings of analyzing
an original CPU. While taking measurements, it became
clear that the TB-303 has some properties that deviate from
an ideal theoretical timing, that are somewhat relevant to its
characteristic sound
.


too biased observation...you can describe the timing, but this statement isn´t scientific (trust me, I worked in biochemistry research for 15 years)

Quote:
8 CONCLUSION
The interaction of different clock sources and processing
times in the interrupt routine in the digital section of the
TB-303 brings a noticeable amount of fluctuations to the
timing of the TB-303 sequencer. Even if the nuances are
small, an emulation of the original TB-303 can not claim
to be complete without taking these variations into consid-
eration.


now this is better, but anyway, the last sentence would be wrong if you take human perception into the equation, that is exactly what this paper lacks
lilakmonoke
anselmi ... you are right there is no scientific proof that one is better than the other but you can experiment and see what you like better, provided you actually hear differences in the microsecond range which i definitely do.

ive asked myself the same question many times and there are a few simple theories in perceptive psychology and biology:

- the human brain is a highly sensitive complex acoustic signal tempo detector meaning we can can follow multiple signals and detect tiny tempo fluctuations. its apparently something that was needed to survive.

- in general slowdowns are interpreted as relaxing and speedups as requiring attention, and fluctuations in multiple signals represent feedback based synching or adaptation. in fact no tempo fluctuations do not exist in nature but probably mean nothing is happening.

- in other words a bassdrum without tempo fluctuation is a totally unnatural signal which is probably whats interesting about it. your heartbeat which usually fluctuates like crazy will be absolutely regular shortly before you die - which i find fascinating. so a straight BD actually represents DEATH?

- all grooves that i find interesting have elements that are straight and fluctuating, behind and before the beat at the same time.

frequencies and harmonics probably follow the same rules so there you have it, the magic of all music in a nutshell ;-)

here is a soundtrack im working on that has 3 clocks inside. only one is straight, the other two oscillate around it (+-30ms) and the clocks switch positions. its in 7x5 quintuplets so this is not based on any known rhythms. to me thats an alien planet soundtrack, i can listen to this all day.

https://clyp.it/xunslz31

.
cger
That's really what this is all about. Even with 100's of custom and processed 808 samples ready for your DAW pleasure, how much fun it is to just whip out the box and jam around. You really can't beat that. And if the sounds are 95%-98% or whatever "close enough", that is amazing enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKK7ygEq_m0


Flux302 wrote:
I have the RD-808 here... I gotta say it is a ton of fun. I did this quick video just to kinda show how the unit sounds quickly (as instagram videos over @flux302 on IG just were not showing the low end properly ...
Panason
Quote:
how much fun it is to just whip out the box and jam around. You really can't beat that.


Yeah it's fun but if you want to use the machine in a full track you 'll probably have to sample it anyway, so it's more of a toy if it doesn't have meaningful pattern control over MIDI (which it probably won't).

That flux video is disappointing. We need solo bass drum with full decay at various tunings.... without the distortion /transient shaper.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
that is amazing enough


i agree! and with that xtra distortion and filter circuit this thing can go from polite to all out balls and back. you might even get some oldschool jungle bass out of it.
kons
Really interesting discussion about the clocks and perception.
Some thought sabout it that I have

First of all, whatever way you lean on the importance of the perceived quality of the XOX sequencer timings. i don't find it likely that the Roland engineers actively designed them in. It was simply a lucky happenchance that resulted from the engineers making a component choice on cost basis. If they could have afforded a digital timing solution in 1981 then they would have used that. But an analog VCO clock was simply cheaper.

The average human is capable of perceiving sub ms changes in timing. We can all determine if a sound from behind us is to the right or left based (partly) on the sub ms differential in timing of the sound arriving at our left and right ears. Presumably this ability can be trained and improved. Maybe some people are just inherently better at 'hearing-perceiving-processing' tenths of a ms and maybe even 100ths of a ms...

That there may be an evolutionary advantage to responding to increasing tempos seems like a plausible possibility. The doppler effect indicating something approaching. and thus we respond to 'pushing' beats...

That the interaction of the imprecise clocks of the aerly 80's XOX rolands creates non-random sub-ms tempo changes that are somehow appealing to the human brain is also plausible. Modern DAW randomisations of tempo don't give me personally any mojo. The real things seem to- for me. But that is possibly just a placebo effect of actually sitting with what are essentially historic relics.

Pitch is essentially frequency, which is at speed/tempo. Perception of pitch is a timing calculation in the human brain. Some people seem to be born with better pitch perception and some seem capable of training and improving their pitch perception. Rising pitches do seem to be 'alarming' as per tempos.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
Maybe some people are just inherently better at 'hearing-perceiving-processing' tenths of a ms and maybe even 100ths of a ms...


like ginger baker, the GOAT of rock drummers once said: "some people just have time!" 100ths of ms is pushing it but in relative impulse differences i think i can hear somewhere between 2 and 5 ms - which doesnt mean i have ginger baker time ;-)

more important i think is that there are big differences in how people process or feel time. the best groove bands often have a unique combination of different time processing members. my favourite example is late 60s black sabbath. their drummer came from jazz so he was behind the beat and slowing things down while the guitar played straight and pushed the beat and the bass wobbled something in between. out of this strange combination came the sludge metal groove ...

here is them in 1970 when they were young lads and not famous at all, there are like 50 people in the audience. amazing concert, keep in mind in 1970 there was NOTHING like this. :

tobb
anselmi wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
please lead me to your source


its in this paper that i posted a page ago. this is the 303 but all these machines have the same cpu:

http://sonic-potions.com/Documentation/Analysis_of_the_D650C-133_CPU_t iming.pdf

im no hardware expert but the way i understand this paper there is a masterclock which is an analog vco, so there is your drift because all analog vcos drift more or less. then there is one clock that runs the sequencer and one clock that runs the user interface which are interlocked by regular interrupts. these generate interference patterns and jitter.

all this is dependent on the machine (606 being the most stable, 909 the most organic), room temperature, the tempo of the sequencer, the user interface load and settings and probably the components and the mood of the operator. so any "groove templates" or audio loops for this are complete bullshit.

i swear every time i have this discussion somebody is trying to convince me im imagining things. ive been programming my own timing mechanics in pure data for a few years so i know exactly what im hearing and what not. believe it or not :-)



oh, man ... like I already said: yep, the papers exists, the drifts exists, but you are the one that concludes that this is something special

There is nothing in this paper that proves that this clock drift gives the 303, its mojo (EDIT: the paper also says it but without any prove, read my comments below)

I just wrote 2 times the kind of experiment that you have to run to prove this ... until this you can't relate both things

Quote:
0 INTRODUCTION
A lot of information about the inner workings of the 303
sequencer can be found on the internet [1], [2], but the ac-
curacy is sometimes questionable. To shed some light on
the timing of the original μPD650C-133 CPU and end the
speculations and misinformation exact measurements were
needed. In this paper we discuss the findings of analyzing
an original CPU. While taking measurements, it became
clear that the TB-303 has some properties that deviate from
an ideal theoretical timing, that are somewhat relevant to its
characteristic sound
.


too biased observation...you can describe the timing, but this statement isn´t scientific (trust me, I worked in biochemistry research for 15 years)

Quote:
8 CONCLUSION
The interaction of different clock sources and processing
times in the interrupt routine in the digital section of the
TB-303 brings a noticeable amount of fluctuations to the
timing of the TB-303 sequencer. Even if the nuances are
small, an emulation of the original TB-303 can not claim
to be complete without taking these variations into consid-
eration.


now this is better, but anyway, the last sentence would be wrong if you take human perception into the equation, that is exactly what this paper lacks


At least ,your perception is special ! hihi
magnetize
lilakmonoke wrote:
keep in mind in 1970 there was NOTHING like this. :


except blue cheer 3 years earlier wink
lilakmonoke
Quote:
except blue cheer 3 years earlier wink


thats correct but they are not british enough and dont count. so is link wray who was 20 years ahead of his time but still doesnt count ;-)
Panason
Hmm, yeah but Black Sabbath and Mr Purdie were not doing electronic music...drum machines are popular because they don't sound like human drummers and most people don't want them to.

The rhythmic vibe of the 808 can only be because of regular deviations, aka swing, and of how the voices interact with each other and whatever compression is going on. The very subtle swing is probably a happy accident but maybe they added it in.
dannyrichardson
Dang, this is going to be awesome!
jam457
Interesting article...One thing though is there is no "analog vs digital clock/vco" in cpu timing"....obviously a modern computer is going to have more accurate timing then a 303 but the 303 sequencer is also a computer its just a really old limited one...

the clock in your computer is derived from the electrical vibration of crystal material to create a reference frequency for the system...about as analog as u can get...any timing in-accuracy can be modelled in digital realm either software or hardware...its just never done well it seems...

Someone mentioned the 909...That is a drum machine that is particularly drifty IMO I actually think it kind of sounds bad....obviously people have utilized them for amazing music though...

It feels pretty subjective especially once u get caught up in the music...I kind of think timbre also plays a massive massive roll in the feel of a lot of stuff...like as soon as u adjust the envelope on the 303 it makes the sequence sound a bit different or shift a bit...thats why the 808 always sounds so nice snappy compared to 909....
jam457
lilakmonoke wrote:

https://www.mixcloud.com/secretthirteen/secret-thirteen-mix-073-mark-f ell/



Also this mix is really sweet!
fruitsnake
I love this discussion.

Here's my two cents on drifty clocks... I use an Oberheim DX a lot, and the clock is so unstable that you can't even record two takes of the same sequence (for longer than a minute or so) and layer them on top of each other. It'll sound like you've got some kind of weird flanger going because of the tiny differences in timing.

It's annoying if you want to add layers to a drum track you already recorded, but I do feel like there's something especially funky about the beats when I sequence on the DX as opposed to when I have the DX slaved to a MIDI clock. It's like automatic micro-swing.
Panason
At this point Behringer would get a lot of credit in my books ( and annoy millions of people at the same time! twisted ) if they called it off and proceeded to design an original drum machine using the voice circuits they've already developed, but with full parameter control from the sequencer and a digital drum voice + some FX added in...

But of course why would they take the trouble when they can make teh ez moneys!

Maybe Roland can still stop them?
Monotremata
Panason wrote:
At this point Behringer would get a lot of credit in my books ( and annoy millions of people at the same time! twisted ) if they called it off and proceeded to design an original drum machine using the voice circuits they've already developed, but with full parameter control from the sequencer and a digital drum voice + some FX added in...

But of course why would they take the trouble when they can make teh ez moneys!

Maybe Roland can still stop them?


They are working on their own analog machine. They've got like 5 or 6 planned, including the 808 and 909, and one of them is their very own.

We'll just have to see what they come up with, if they ever get the 808 and 909 out.
Panason
Now it looks like they're teasing an SP2400 drum machine.... this is some mega 80s revival, the Harley Davidson riding mid-life crisis of the music tech world...on a budget.

.........are Harleys still made in the US? twisted
Fallen_lassen
In germany of course. Barley davidson.
Chopper
They are denying the SP2400 thingy....
Flux302
I'll say this...if you REALLY want a drifty clock... send it a drifty clock??? right?

also the sp2400 is not behringer.
Flux302
Panason wrote:
Quote:
how much fun it is to just whip out the box and jam around. You really can't beat that.


Yeah it's fun but if you want to use the machine in a full track you 'll probably have to sample it anyway, so it's more of a toy if it doesn't have meaningful pattern control over MIDI (which it probably won't).

That flux video is disappointing. We need solo bass drum with full decay at various tunings.... without the distortion /transient shaper.


its posts like this that kinda irk me... just know. nothing would please you... why? 1) if I show those various tunings, you are likely to complain "but the 808 doesn't have bass drum tuning so this isn't good enough"
2) if I spent a bunch of time on individual sounds I get the whole "why are you doing this boring shit" debate, followed by the "youtube compression blah blah blah" .
3) I played a snippet of a very well known pattern... and as stated in the video it was literally just to show that the IG videos loose bass...

4) through out much of the video transient shaper and the filter were not used... and there are plenty of other videos with out those features engaged. (not many with it engaged) so I thought I was doing ya a solid.....
can't please the internet.... EVER.
tenembre
Flux302 wrote:
Panason wrote:
Quote:
how much fun it is to just whip out the box and jam around. You really can't beat that.


Yeah it's fun but if you want to use the machine in a full track you 'll probably have to sample it anyway, so it's more of a toy if it doesn't have meaningful pattern control over MIDI (which it probably won't).

That flux video is disappointing. We need solo bass drum with full decay at various tunings.... without the distortion /transient shaper.


its posts like this that kinda irk me... just know. nothing would please you... why? 1) if I show those various tunings, you are likely to complain "but the 808 doesn't have bass drum tuning so this isn't good enough"
2) if I spent a bunch of time on individual sounds I get the whole "why are you doing this boring shit" debate, followed by the "youtube compression blah blah blah" .
3) I played a snippet of a very well known pattern... and as stated in the video it was literally just to show that the IG videos loose bass...

4) through out much of the video transient shaper and the filter were not used... and there are plenty of other videos with out those features engaged. (not many with it engaged) so I thought I was doing ya a solid.....
can't please the internet.... EVER.


It's Panason. That's what he does.
Corrupt
lilakmonoke
so just to make a point i made a showcase track with 4 clocks, all of them drifting ~ 40 ms around a masterclock which also drifts. even the swing drifts in and out if you listen carefully. all the drifts are on sine curves so there is no randomness in it at all.

sounds like three amateurs on downers that have a hard time following anything and are conducted by a drunk ;-) ... anyways i think a modern drum machine needs to be able of something like that.


[s]http://soundcloud.com/lilakmonoke/yamaneko[/s]
mihata
Panason wrote:
this is some mega 80s revival, the Harley Davidson riding mid-life crisis of the music tech world twisted


It is. Will never understand that backward looking mentality in people
col
There is more than one company making violins.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
this is some mega 80s revival, the Harley Davidson riding mid-life crisis of the music tech world twisted


he has a point there, all the best digital stuff is 85-95 as far as im concerned. i doubt they can make the sp2400 sound like a sp1200 though. its much easier to reverse engineer analog than vintage digital but i might be wrong. if they can every wigger on the planet will buy one as the price of the originals is ridiculous.
Panason
Flux302 wrote:


its posts like this that kinda irk me... just know. nothing would please you... why? 1) if I show those various tunings, you are likely to complain "but the 808 doesn't have bass drum tuning so this isn't good enough"


I'm not one of those people. razz Go on, do a video with the bass drum tunings and you will see that nobody here will complain about the video!
shreddoggie
1. No one 'deserves' anything; vintage, clone, reproduction, sharp stick in eye --- nothing (with very few exceptions). To suggest otherwise is the height of insular entitlement. This frenzy we are witnessing is part of the zeitgeist of consume-all-resources / don't give a fuck about anything but yourself / enrich the oligarchs who make no secret of hating you. Congratulations on contributing to their Dune-suit and spaceship funds. They will wear their suits proudly after the meltdown, treading across the bones of those who didn't make the cut - those who 'deserved' something to a greater degree than they were 'obligated' to do something. Fortunately their spaceship plans will fail dismally.

2. B got where they are via despicable practices. This is well documented. Forgetting this like a child who can't sleep on Christmas eve, single-mindedly focused on the new toy they are about to receive is pitiful.

3. If you have kids who still can't sleep on Dec 24th, remember the story of all the things you deserve. You may need to recount it on your deathbed when asked what the fuck happened when you guys were grownups. Make sure to include the part about being a nihilist.

4. Harley Davidson is the longest surviving cosplay business in the United States.

Fallen_lassen
Amen Mr. Green
MindMachine
shreddoggie wrote:

4. Harley Davidson is the longest surviving cosplay business in the United States.



Bailed out by taxpayers more than once too. But not this next time.
coolshirtdotjpg
shreddoggie wrote:
1. No one 'deserves' anything; vintage, clone, reproduction, sharp stick in eye --- nothing (with very few exceptions). To suggest otherwise is the height of insular entitlement. This frenzy we are witnessing is part of the zeitgeist of consume-all-resources / don't give a fuck about anything but yourself / enrich the oligarchs who make no secret of hating you. Congratulations on contributing to their Dune-suit and spaceship funds. They will wear their suits proudly after the meltdown, treading across the bones of those who didn't make the cut - those who 'deserved' something to a greater degree than they were 'obligated' to do something. Fortunately their spaceship plans will fail dismally.

2. B got where they are via despicable practices. This is well documented. Forgetting this like a child who can't sleep on Christmas eve, single-mindedly focused on the new toy they are about to receive is pitiful.

3. If you have kids who still can't sleep on Dec 24th, remember the story of all the things you deserve. You may need to recount it on your deathbed when asked what the fuck happened when you guys were grownups. Make sure to include the part about being a nihilist.


Yeah, I'll tell my daughter on my deathbed "I wish I had pretended to ethically consume under capitalism" very frustrating
Panason
I'm too ethical and environmentally conscious to have kids.

I'm off to GS to troll Uli about this being vaporware. lol
xonetacular
any word?
Red Electric Rainbow
Looks like they’re getting closer.


36replicator
why do people still care about the 808?
ramos808
36replicator wrote:
why do people still care about the 808?


Er because they like the sound?

Why do people care about grand pianos? Violins?
Red Electric Rainbow
36replicator wrote:
why do people still care about the 808?


because they’re sick
ym2612
36replicator wrote:
why do people still care about the 808?


97 posts to go!
Panason
Quote:
97 posts to go!


I guess there must have been some griefers in the buy/sell forum but do try to entertain the notion that not everyone is here to sell eurorack modules...
Red Electric Rainbow
36replicator wrote:
why do people still care about the 808?


but besides being sick af its a versatile drum machine that sits nicely in a mix and works well with almost every genre. even though its pretty basic you can get plenty of mileage out of it.

what do you suggest in its place?
rens
The 909? A drumbrute? A drm1 plus any sequencer? So many options.
Red Electric Rainbow
rens wrote:
The 909? A drumbrute? A drm1 plus any sequencer? So many options.


LMAO AF

The 909 is sick but it doesn’t replace an 808 just like an 808 doesn’t replace a 909. I hate Arturia gear with a passion. The only thing i think i hate more is a drum machine without its own dedicated sequencer so the DRM is not an option for me. And the DRM tries to clone three classic Rolands, including the 808, so keep trying pal.
DiscoDevil
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
rens wrote:
The 909? A drumbrute? A drm1 plus any sequencer? So many options.


LMAO AF

The 909 is sick but it doesn’t replace an 808 just like an 808 doesn’t replace a 909. I hate Arturia gear with a passion. The only thing i think i hate more is a drum machine without its own dedicated sequencer so the DRM is not an option for me. And the DRM tries to clone three classic Rolands, including the 808, so keep trying pal.



DRM is its own thing. Doesn't try to clone any of the X0X boxes.
Red Electric Rainbow
DiscoDevil wrote:
DRM is its own thing. Doesn't try to clone any of the X0X boxes.


idk i think it does but whatever
ym2612
Panason wrote:
I guess there must have been some griefers in the buy/sell forum but do try to entertain the notion that not everyone is here to sell eurorack modules...

The difference between a shitpost for its own sake and a shitpost to meet the BST minimum is not really significant to me
h4ndcrafted
The thing is, pianos are timeless , I wouldn’t say the 808 is timeless. You can make way better drums on a softsynth these days.

This really is for people that want that vintage experience.
tenembre
Tiptop 808 modules were a huge upgrade over samples for me. Not for any nostalgic reason, but for the sound.

I'm guessing the Beri 808 will be a similar upgrade for many, particularly if they use the individual outs into a mixing desk.
Panason
Not convinced by any of the latest videos yet... this whole thing is becoming less relevant as every day passes with all the fresh stuff being released.
mookmoof
36replicator wrote:
why do people still care about the 808?


Because the 808 Kick Drum makes the girlies get dumb
Rex Coil 7
... read this entire thread up to this point. Thought I would learn something new.




There's 45 minutes of my life I won't get back ....


d'oh! d'oh!
h4ndcrafted
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
... read this entire thread up to this point. Thought I would learn something new.




There's 45 minutes of my life I won't get back ....


d'oh! d'oh!


Such as...

What I’ve learnt from the constant obsession with the 808 is the 606 is better.
Red Electric Rainbow
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
... read this entire thread up to this point. Thought I would learn something new.


There's 45 minutes of my life I won't get back ....


lilakmonoke
Quote:
What I’ve learnt from the constant obsession with the 808 is the 606 is better.


exactly what im thinking. and smaller, and better timing, and not ridiculously overpriced. but dont tell anybody on muffs :-)
Panason
Jamiroquai's kb player makes a longer demo !

Sounds pretty good I think... close enough with some nice improvements.
anselmi
Panason wrote:
Jamiroquai's kb player makes a longer demo !

Sounds pretty good I think... close enough with some nice improvements.


"looks kind of familiar" hihi

they really made it big, as the OG, of course

this "wave designer" thing works really well with the kick drum, and the tune feature is great to have on board...the filter also is a great extra, and for the money...pfff

I think this will split the waters between the OG owners/sellers/buyers with colletor prices and the low end market who the noobie can afford...and then nothing in between, so the hype will go down and then will be a big place to fill with new and different products in the machinedrum/groovebox format
Monotremata
Sounds close enough to me. For the price its a no brainer. If that's how big the RD-909 is gonna be damn. I better go invest in some shelving. Getting an MPC delivered tomorrow and I already have to remove something from my desk for it!
lilakmonoke
that is a proper drum machine size and you can dump all the roland boutique toys in dumpster, thank you ... and the jamiroquai tosser actually puts behringer gear on top of a holy grail jupiter 8!

behringer has a weird habit of selecting clueless characters for product demos and this is no exception. what about the egyptian lover he would be absolutely qualified for this job? i dont own a 808 too but i think the rd808 has this elusive quality to sound big and soft at the same time .. just like a real 808 but i still think ill go for the rd-909 as im into primal techno.
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
that is a proper drum machine size and you can dump all the roland boutique toys in dumpster, thank you ... and the jamiroquai tosser actually puts behringer gear on top of a holy grail jupiter 8!

behringer has a weird habit of selecting clueless characters for product demos and this is no exception. what about the egyptian lover he would be absolutely qualified for this job? i dont own a 808 too but i think the rd808 has this elusive quality to sound big and soft at the same time .. just like a real 808 but i still think ill go for the rd-909 as im into primal techno.


I can remember when egyptian lover demoed the tb-03 a lot of people in social media land didn't know who he was and complained about him.

I have to say the kick sounds great.
Chopper
Egyptian Lover is endorsed by Roland, so no can do, plus it's not like people have to agree on demoing something just because the crowd wants them to ...
Panason
lilakmonoke wrote:
that is a proper drum machine size and you can dump all the roland boutique toys in dumpster, thank you ... and the jamiroquai tosser actually puts behringer gear on top of a holy grail jupiter 8!

behringer has a weird habit of selecting clueless characters for product demos and this is no exception. what about the egyptian lover he would be absolutely qualified for this job? i dont own a 808 too but i think the rd808 has this elusive quality to sound big and soft at the same time .. just like a real 808 but i still think ill go for the rd-909 as im into primal techno.


Err, yeah, that is Jamiroquai's keyboard player and far from "clueless". d'oh! He can afford another jupiter 8 I'm sure. Egyptian Lover has shamed himself by doing a promo for the Roland TR08...
anselmi
Panason wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
that is a proper drum machine size and you can dump all the roland boutique toys in dumpster, thank you ... and the jamiroquai tosser actually puts behringer gear on top of a holy grail jupiter 8!

behringer has a weird habit of selecting clueless characters for product demos and this is no exception. what about the egyptian lover he would be absolutely qualified for this job? i dont own a 808 too but i think the rd808 has this elusive quality to sound big and soft at the same time .. just like a real 808 but i still think ill go for the rd-909 as im into primal techno.


Err, yeah, that is Jamiroquai's keyboard player and far from "clueless". d'oh! He can afford another jupiter 8 I'm sure. Egyptian Lover has shamed himself by doing a promo for the Roland TR08...


oh, man...this promo... d'oh!
anselmi
Panason
Is it sex?

Panason
Monotremata
Just when I got that GIF out of my head haha!
dubonaire
Panason wrote:


PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWMPWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM PWM
Panason
...and lovely sing-song harmonics!

I love those guys. They're almost like cartoon characters while being real. And of course they nailed the demo by actually showing what the bass drum can do. They know the score! The machine sounds great and I think I'm sold.
dubonaire
It's official. Bore-inger 808.
coolshirtdotjpg
dubonaire wrote:
It's official. Bore-inger 808.


Why? It sounds exactly like an 808.
lisa
Will probably get one even though I have a few drum machines that does the same sounds. Can’t have too many of that kick. Boooom. love
Sinamsis
dubonaire wrote:
It's official. Bore-inger 808.


Haha, you know, I'm ok with boring some times. I don't know if I'll get this, or save up the cash and eventually get a Yocto and Nava. I just feel like I'd like to have an 808 and 909 in the studio, even if only used sporadically. Behringer is obviously the cheaper route. But more importantly it's from an established manufacturer than DIY/from a builder.

Does that video have any info on MIDI specs? The other big detractor for the Nava while I owned one was the lack of any but the most basic MIDI implementation. If this has any degree of CC control, I will find it hard to resist the urge, even though I'm probably doing humanity and the cosmos a disservice. I'll make up the karma somewhere else haha.
dubonaire
Sinamsis wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
It's official. Bore-inger 808.

Haha, you know, I'm ok with boring some times...I just feel like I'd like to have an 808 and 909 in the studio, even if only used sporadically.


I really only like the 808 kick anyway.

coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
Why? It sounds exactly like an 808.


I just thought "Bore-inger" was mildy amusing.
Sinamsis
dubonaire wrote:

I really only like the 808 kick anyway.



You know, I'm not really an 808 or 909 connoisseur or snob by any means. I just like the simplicity and familiarity of these sorts of boxes. I've explored a few analog drum synths like the Vermone DRM 1 and MFB 522. In the end I didn't click with them.

The kick on this box did sound very nice. I didn't understand the kick thing, however, until I got a Jomox box haha. I feel like that's my kick sound when it comes to analog synthesized kick sounds. In the end I probably would do as well with just some 808 and 909 samples so they can be controlled in a little more depth via MIDI. I know it's not the analog thing, but whatever, it's at least already processed to sound "good" (I hope) and readily available.

Truth is a mix of nostalgia and a likely compelling price point got my attention. I just watched that demo and the added features are very nice. Again, I don't know what a real 808 or 909 sound like. But it does seem to be reminiscent at least, and for someone like me, that's good enough. They certainly don't sound shitty to me. I think having this or the 909 with a limited other synth or two, or maybe small modular case, would be a great small system for jamming.
coolshirtdotjpg
dubonaire wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
It's official. Bore-inger 808.

Haha, you know, I'm ok with boring some times...I just feel like I'd like to have an 808 and 909 in the studio, even if only used sporadically.


I really only like the 808 kick anyway.

coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
Why? It sounds exactly like an 808.


I just thought "Bore-inger" was mildy amusing.


Ahhh, got it. I still want them to make a version of the Buchla MARF. The Behringer Arbitrary Function Generator
Chopper
Sinamsis wrote:
I've explored a few analog drum synths like the Vermone DRM 1 and MFB 522. In the end I didn't click with them.



I see what you did there....
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