Quantizer that can divide an octave in 1200 equal steps?

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helder
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Quantizer that can divide an octave in 1200 equal steps?

Post by helder » Tue May 15, 2018 1:10 pm

Hi,

I am looking for a module that can divide (i.e. quantize cv) an octave (or any other frequency ratio) in 1200 or more steps (don't ask). Do you know of any modules that can do this? Can this new uTune from Tubbutec divide in that many steps? I know it can divide an octave or any other frequency ratio in the number of notes one desires (it's in the manual) - but that many?

Thanks in advance.

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ersatzplanet
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Post by ersatzplanet » Tue May 15, 2018 6:59 pm

I doubt you will find something accurate to 0.000833333333 volts which is what you would need to divide a volt into 1200 steps. Even if you went digital, I doubt you could get a A/D converter with that sort of accuracy. I am not familiar with very high end test gear, you may find something there, but I doubt very seriously if you would find anything even close in the "musical" world.
-James

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helder
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Post by helder » Wed May 16, 2018 3:04 am

Thanks for your reply. Appreciate it. I might stop looking then ;)

I wanted better accuracy for playing a ribbon controller. I used digital synths before and played "fretless" - it was actually adjusting the pitch in 0.01 to 0.03 increments this worked well for me, and I was wondering if the same was possible in eurorack in the analog world, to control VCOs in the same manner.

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lisa
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Post by lisa » Wed May 16, 2018 3:08 am

Why would you use a quantizer for that? :hmm: Just connect the ribbon controller to your VCO and have at it.
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tom.bzode
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Post by tom.bzode » Wed May 16, 2018 4:50 am

1200-TET? I don't think the human ear could even discern the difference between that and just continuous portamento.

I'm interested in what your reason for wanting to do this might be..? I know you said don't ask but it just seems so pointless that I'm naturally curious.

If you really want to hear what that idea might sound like, rig up a prototype in Max/MSP or PD. I'd guess that the stepping might be just about audible but you'd have to listen very, very carefully to hear it.

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ersatzplanet
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Post by ersatzplanet » Wed May 16, 2018 2:28 pm

tom.bzode wrote:1200-TET? I don't think the human ear could even discern the difference between that and just continuous portamento.

I'm interested in what your reason for wanting to do this might be..? I know you said don't ask but it just seems so pointless that I'm naturally curious.

If you really want to hear what that idea might sound like, rig up a prototype in Max/MSP or PD. I'd guess that the stepping might be just about audible but you'd have to listen very, very carefully to hear it.
From "Sound:An Interactive eBook on the Physics of Sound" -

Two other differences in human hearing as compared to laboratory measurements are Just Noticeable Difference in frequency (JND Hz) and the Just Noticeable Difference in loudness (JND dB). If a group of people are asked to decide if two frequencies are the same or slightly different most people can tell if the frequency is different by 1 Hz for low frequency sounds. So the JND (Hz) for a 500 Hz sound is about 1 Hz; most of us can tell the difference between 500 Hz and 501 Hz. At frequencies above 2000 Hz however, most people start having more difficulty telling two frequencies apart. For example at 4000 Hz the JND (Hz) is about 8 Hz meaning that the two frequencies must be about 8 Hz apart before the notes sound different; we can’t distinguish a 4000 Hz pitch from a 4001 Hz or even a 4007 Hz pitch. Probably for this reason no musical instrument produces fundamental frequencies above 5000 Hz; we wouldn’t be able to tell if the instrument was in tune.

So this means that the accuracy the original poster was looking for, would be basically wasted at anything above 2K or so of VCO control.
-James

James Husted - Synthwerks, LLC - www.synthwerks.com - info@synthwerks.com - james@synthwerks.com
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helder
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Post by helder » Wed May 16, 2018 3:39 pm

Thank you all for your replies. I explained my reason above. I see now I can simply use the ribbon unquantized and it should be fine (I like to play melodies/solo fretless sometimes for higher expressiveness). Thank you.

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tubbutec
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Post by tubbutec » Thu May 17, 2018 5:52 am

Hi,
would like to answer the technical aspect of this question.

yes the µTune could theoretically do this. You are looking at a resolution of 0.83mV or 1 cent. µTune's resolution is much better with 0.15mV / 0.2cents.

µTune however does not have this resolution at its input, here you are restricted to a maximum of 36 notes/V

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Phil999
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Post by Phil999 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:01 am

ersatzplanet wrote:So the JND (Hz) for a 500 Hz sound is about 1 Hz; most of us can tell the difference between 500 Hz and 501 Hz. At frequencies above 2000 Hz however, most people start having more difficulty telling two frequencies apart. For example at 4000 Hz the JND (Hz) is about 8 Hz
thanks for this info, didn't know that.

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