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why is 5u/MOTM so hard to get hold of??
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author why is 5u/MOTM so hard to get hold of??
knotakt
I'm mostly interested in the motm and oakley modules but these seems to be diy only.

motm can only be bought as panel/board often and not as finished product.

oakley you have to buy as board then get panels from another place. and some stuff is available as finished products from krisp1.

i mean wtf.

lets say I want to buy this or that motm or oakley module, and want to have it withing like 1 week. dafuq are you supposed to do herfe really?

i know paul sold the motm biz to synthcube but still. why dont synthcube make all his stuff available as fisnished modules??

same with oakley. why cant i simply buy oakley modules from oakley direct as finished modules??

end of rant!
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is the 5u/motm market so small no one even gives a flying fuk?

i have 0 5u modules. anyone wanna guess why?

i dont like jumping through hoops.
Rex Coil 7
Oakley - because their chosen business model does not include building modules.

MOTM - because their chosen business model does not include building modules.

Synthesizers.com sells complete tested modules, as does Moon.

You want fast food synth modules, you'll have to switch to McEuro.

Building modules raises overhead costs by quite a bit. There's labor involved, labor that isn't free.

It comes down to ... you can't always get what you want. Even if one chooses to throw his diaper lol

Feel lucky that we can get this stuff at all. It wasn't all that long ago that NONE of this stuff was available. As far as wanting something inside of a week, even Dot Com doesn't always get things out inside of a week, and they're the largest 5U synth maker on the planet.

It just is what it is, man. Krisp1 will build any Oakley device you want. However, time is money ... and money talks.

Put simply, there just isn't the demand for 5U to keep various modules built and in stock at all times.

So you have two choices, build your own gear (which means keeping a lot of components on hand so that you can build what you want at a whim's notice) or switch to Euro. Honestly that's all I can tell you.

I consider the fact that I can buy various PCBs and then use FREE panel files to order my own panels (or even better, start with the FREE panel file and modify it to suit my needs) to be a privilege.

Also, there are any number of members here in Miffwugglers that will gladly build modules out of whatever circuits you want. With or without modifications, customized graphics, extras, etc ...

Again, money talks in those situations as well.

seriously, i just don't get it
josaka
all you need is a good local builder(or one of the many here).. its easy then.. you can have modules from tons of makers.. yusynth/oakley/CGS/STROH/MFOS+ many others..
steffengrondahl
You can go MU and get most Oakley from krisp1. 5U/MOTM is DIY, MU is for us who can't solder smile
ranix
5u developers and builders come to me and ask me to buy their stuff, and I'm just some random idiot. idk what you're doing wrong

I've gotten a couple pms here from folks selling something I might need and there are builders on this board who advertise their stuff and sell it in b/s/t

might be the difference between moon/dotcom 5u format and oakley/motm
Notron fn
Paul at Krisp1 ships quickly when he has built up modules in stock.
tehfizzle
You might want to change the title to why is motm so hard to come by. In the states there are a couple of options for getting MU quickly.
sduck
A number of reasons. The main one is that the inventor and most prolific manufacturer of MOTM gave up on it years ago. And even before then, there were never any ready made case/psu options available - everything in that realm was DIY. And the main emphasis always seemed to be DIY anyway - if you wanted prebuilt stuff, you had to be prepared to wait and wait and wait, sometimes for years. There's always been a handful of people who are willing to build MOTM stuff for you, but even that's drying out, as quite a few of the old modules have unobtanium parts in them. I've built maybe 200 or so MOTM format modules, maybe half of them for other people, but haven't had any interest in it for some 2 years - all my builds are euro now.
JohnLRice
As already mentioned you can get pre-built Oakley from Krisp1 but he is getting out of doing MOTM modules since the demand is so low. Best to jump on that now if you want some Oakley, especially since he is offering them at a nice discount.
http://www.krisp1.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=bj ctlse5b5t51s3mevgooo6vt0

SynthCube DOES sell pre-built Synth Tech MOTM (and 3rd party MOTM as well):
http://synthcube.com/cart/makers/synthesis-technology

I think that it makes sense for a business to only build up modules as needed since the demand is low and sporadic. Honestly a week or three isn't a very long time to wait in the world of boutique modules. Do a little searching on the forum and you'll be able to find stories of people ordering pre-built modules and it taking months and sometimes years to take delivery! eek! sad banana Dead Banana
knotakt
how "big" is 5u/motm in your guys eyes? is this a "dying format"?

me personally I have a hard time seeing any format as dying, its just that euro is expanding strongly.

i only have euro but i think its too cramped. then i found motm site and oakley and these makers seems to tick all my boxes. but hey wtf i cant even buy any of this...

dafuq!! i say.

i feel like this guy sometimes.

Synthoholic
I bet if you contact FSFX he will build you whatever you want. That's where I got my Source of Uncertainty with the Re:Synthesis panel. He will order the kit from wherever and the panel from wherever and will do a fantastic job.
knotakt
Synthoholic wrote:
I bet if you contact FSFX he will build you whatever you want. That's where I got my Source of Uncertainty with the Re:Synthesis panel. He will order the kit from wherever and the panel from wherever and will do a fantastic job.


Yeah I'm sure I can get whatever i want custom built. i'm just baffled by why the "manufacturers" themselves dont actually sell modules.if i was in the designing/manufacturing biz in the synth segment i would sure as fuk be selling what i designed!! directly from my site too. finished products.
knotakt
buy hey i'm not making these things. so my only conclusion is that these things are so low in demand its not even worth it.
coyoteous
20% off on MOTM format Oakley with Bridechamber panels at Krisp1 right now.

But, yeah... if I didn't have MOTM and MU formats, I'd go (or continue) euro.

In fact, I did... just a little by comparison and trying not to overlap with other formats.

Bad news: as hard as it might be to get MOTM format, all you need for euro is $ and/or time to look for deals.

Semi-modular is good, too... I went for a long time with that.
knotakt
I would like that it was was as easy to get any 5u stuff as it is to get the euro stuff. [basically this is what i'm complaining about]. why isnt it so?? bigger is better right?? at least in texas where motm is from... Dead Banana
JohnLRice
knotakt wrote:
I would like that it was was as easy to get any 5u stuff as it is to get the euro stuff. [basically this is what i'm complaining about]. why isnt it so?? bigger is better right?? at least in texas where motm is from... Dead Banana
Like sduck said, Paul at Synth Tech gave up on the format he created many years ago. It was a very DIY focused format to begin with and while it was possible to order pre-built modules from Synth Tech it could take a very long time to get them, especially in the last few years Paul was still doing MOTM. (i.e months to possibly years) Paul eventually saw the dollar signs on the wall (dropping MOTM and FRAC to go exclusively eurorack) and sold of his MOTM line to BrideChamber and then a couple years later BrideChamber went out of business and sold the MOTM line to SynthCube.

Modcan (another manufacturer of MOTM compatible modules) helped support the MOTM format with his B series modules. (for people willing to have white modules) They were only sold ready made and Bruce gave very accurate estimates on how long it would take him to ship an order. (typically a few weeks to a few months depending on his backlog and sometimes some modules were in stock and he shipped right away). Unfortunately many years ago he suffered a serious health setback an ceased all manufacturing. sad banana (get well Bruce! Hug )

Oakley was originally only for DIYers (selling only PCBs and some hard to get parts kits) and then many years ago partnered with Krisp1 to provide pre-built modules but now recently Krisp1 is going to stop making MOTM format because of low demand.

Anyways, if you want to go 5U and want to be able to order pre-built modules with relative ease I strongly suggest you go with MU instead of MOTM since there are lots of active manufacturers, many have modules in stock and several even sell through retail stores that have stock on hand. Check out Noisebug in California for instance if you are in the USA:

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogcraftsman/index.cfm?ID=1
http://www.noisebug.net/site/corsynth/index.cfm?ID=1
http://www.noisebug.net/site/freestatefx/index.cfm?ID=1
http://www.noisebug.net/site/frequencycentral/index.cfm?ID=1
http://www.noisebug.net/site/happynerding/index.cfm?ID=1
http://www.noisebug.net/site/effects/index.cfm?ID=157
http://www.noisebug.net/site/stgsoundlabs/index.cfm?id=4
http://www.noisebug.net/site/largemodular_syntheticsoundlabs/index.cfm  ?ID=1

And check out Synthesizers.com in Texas of course, pretty much the king of MU format for the masses! thumbs up
https://www.synthesizers.com/index.html
MindMachine
There should be a ton of MOTM modules about. I recall Paul S. counting how many more MOTM were made at a given time compared to Moog modules. The numbers seemed high. I guess most MOTM users are hardcore and keep their stuff though.
unrecordings
I often wonder what would have happened if Larry had survived and Stooge quality panels were still simple & easy to get hold of to this day
BendingBus
JohnLRice wrote:
As already mentioned you can get pre-built Oakley from Krisp1 but he is getting out of doing MOTM modules since the demand is so low.


Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Put simply, there just isn't the demand for 5U to keep various modules built and in stock at all times.


JohnLRice wrote:
I think that it makes sense for a business to only build up modules as needed since the demand is low and sporadic.


Seems circular though.

If you are selling a product that does not exist, demand tends to be low (or at least realization of that demand in sales can not reach its full potential).

To my knowledge MOTM has never existed, it has always been this game you play of trying to give people money, and maybe getting a module, of unknown quality, at some unknown future date. But if selling lots of units was ever the goal, this is a problem, because supply helps drive demand. People are put off by a product not existing, shipping maybe months/years later, with no real quality control guarantees. They can order a Moog or Dotcom thingy that exists right now, and it will be delivered next week. Existing supply can drive demand, because people will substitute even for a lower quality, if it is a known quality, with available quantity! Sure MOTM is better, in my opinion it is the best synth in the planet, and so weirdos like me will suffer thru it (or even enjoy the DIY thing). But it not existing is a pretty big negative for "normals."

Now I know business is hard, getting financial backing is hard, and running a manufacturing operation is hard. But you gotta build the modules if you want to sell the modules. Being a designer is probably more fun though, get a DIYer to build it. But you can't expect large demand from that biz model, or assume to know what the demand would have been (had the product actually existed in quantity before being offered for sale). Risk/return.

knotakt wrote:
i'm just baffled by why the "manufacturers" themselves dont actually sell modules.if i was in the designing/manufacturing biz in the synth segment i would sure as fuk be selling what i designed!! directly from my site too. finished products.

buy hey i'm not making these things. so my only conclusion is that these things are so low in demand its not even worth it.


Case in point—this is the sort of conclusion normal people will make. It's circular, the "demand death spiral." waah
DrReverendSeance
Just to mention: the Krisp1 builds are very high quality.

Synthcube offers pre-built modules in MOTM format as well.

unrecordings wrote:
I often wonder what would have happened if Larry had survived and Stooge quality panels were still simple & easy to get hold of to this day


Yes, it seems like the shortage of panels is the biggest barrier. Maybe the shortage of cash too? I have the impression Euro is about half price compared with a built MOTM or 5U module.
JohnLRice
BendingBus wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
As already mentioned you can get pre-built Oakley from Krisp1 but he is getting out of doing MOTM modules since the demand is so low.


Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Put simply, there just isn't the demand for 5U to keep various modules built and in stock at all times.


JohnLRice wrote:
I think that it makes sense for a business to only build up modules as needed since the demand is low and sporadic.


Seems circular though.

If you are selling a product that does not exist, demand tends to be low (or at least realization of that demand in sales can not reach its full potential).
FWIW I was thinking of the current 2018 status of the format and what SynthCube has in stock. They only have so many PCBs and panels in stock and because of the current low demand (because of past actions/in actions of others) it makes more sense to me to not spend the time and money to build out all the PCBs and panels that they have since they don't know which will sell first, parts or completed modules.

In the past if Paul would have sorted out his order fulfillment problems and continued making MOTM along with introducing new modules and if Bruce hadn't gotten sick, there might have been pre-built Synth Tech MOTM and maybe even Modcan B and Oakley MOTM sitting on Noisebug's shelf today?!
Rex Coil 7
I'll be dead honest ... if I had a HAAS Mini I'd be in the MU building business right now. I don't like outsourcing, and making the panels is the single most time consuming part of the process. Populating PCBs is something that is fairly easy to train people to do (design the boards well, and populating them is scarcely more than painting by numbers). Then calibration, and after that comes assembly, which again is a mechanical task that is easily taught.

Obtaining (leasing? owning? .. depends on your business choices) a really excellent quality "mini-mill" such as a HAAS would be the big jump.

I may be in such a position sortof soon-ish. Tick tock. seriously, i just don't get it

I wouldn't get into cabinets, at least not at first. That would depend on my growth rate. However, as anyone that is familiar with my tastes knows, they wouldn't be fancy pants furniture grade wood. We're talking full-on "textured coating" with the live gigger in mind.

I'd probably even offer full bus bar power distribution set ups. Keep that mill running!! It ain't making any money unless chips are being produced!

(unsubscribed - not mad or having a hissy fit - just trying to keep my number of subscribed threads under better control - if you wish to correspond please feel totally free to send me a PM - thanks!)

thumbs up
Synthbuilder
Krisp1 is not giving up on MOTM. Krisp1 is just not making anymore Oakley modules with Bridechamber panels once his current stock have been sold. Bridechamber panels were designed to look like Synthtech MOTM panels with a painted finish and white silkscreen.

Krisp1 will continue to sell K1 systems (as well as MU). K1 is MOTM compatible in all but panel aesthetics - ie. the mechanics are the same but the look and finish of the panels are different.

This is a K1 system:


I design primarily for the MOTM system although my modules were always slightly different in things like socket and pot spacing compared to Synthtech modules.

I used to do ready made modules but since 2010 Paul at Krisp1 handles all the builds. I think he sells most of my current catalogue from stock and if not, ask him about it, and he'll probably be able to do one for you.

These days I just sell the printed circuit boards (PCBs) for people to DIY - which is how I originally started out back in 1998. Krisp1 gets his PCBs from me.

Tony
Synthbuilder
knotakt wrote:
i'm just baffled by why the "manufacturers" themselves dont actually sell modules.

I'm not in a position any more to do so. Which is why I was very happy to have Paul Darlow, aka Krisp1, take over that side of things some time ago. Paul does excellent work and delivers things in a very timely manner.

I like designing musical things. It's keep me busy and sending out the occasional parcel of PCBs provides me with enough income to keep it going.

Tony
Flareless
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
..., and making the panels is the single most time consuming part of the process.


Definitely!
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