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Ibanez AD 202 or Cluster Flux
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Guitars, Basses, Amps & FX  
Author Ibanez AD 202 or Cluster Flux
Biom
I also own minifooger delay, so more interested in flanger / chorus characteristics of both. What unit would you prefer?

I'm into synths and mostly electronic stuff with dub and musique concrete influences.

My foogers setup is only MF-101 atm and, possibly, would be the Cluster Flux, so no plans to collect them all, at least for now.

I've heard the delay section on AD202 is nothing but outstanding, so would be a great bonus to have one multi effect unit to achieve all my flanger-chorus-delay goals. But still can't decide which one to go with, as the guitar demos really freak me out!

Thank you in advance for all the input here!
Kent
I've owned the AD-230 but have not ever played with an AD-202.
I think that the AD-230 and the AD-202 use different delay IC chips. It has been years since I've investigated them.

I did sell the AD-230. I tend to prefer digital delays for most delay duties except for the dirty and distorted stuff. The Cluster-Flux, which I've kept, is wonderful at doing all of the smeared, dirty, messy and flange stuff that one would like to have. Plus, it has a lot of control over MIDI. It is also much smaller and probably easier to repair or replace these days.

I've also kept a K & T DN-360 for similar smeary nonsense. If it dies, I'm probably hosed as the chips are impossible to find. I fear that AD-230 & 202 will be much the same.
Biom
Oh, nice to hear your opinion, as I'm a bit of a follower of yours here on Muff!
What do you think about the 230' flanger, compared to 108M?

Yes, I'm also leaning towards the 108M for lots of common reasons.
They also are among the sexiest FX units I've ever touched, begging to tweak them. Just trying to control these visual / aesthetic feelings to not let them dominate me)
CalvaryBand
I am a new owner of the AD-202 and it is indeed great. If you're looking for a BBD delay, it is a great option. Brighter than most of the old BBDs but likely more lofi than any of the Moog stuff (less flexible than the Moog too). The other effect sections are solid too, namely the doubling and chorus parts.
Biom
CalvaryBand wrote:
less flexible than the Moog too


Could you, please, elaborate on this? It is just what I'm trying to figure out between the two - how diverse is each one's sonic palette regarding the chorus and flange section.

As I mentioned, the BBD delay is pretty much covered by the minifooger, which sounds pretty close to what I heard from 104m. The 104m is a bit longer and the LFO is a great feature, but sonically they seem very close to me. Would not call them bright at all though, especially on longer delays. The drive section there is another great feature to add variations to the timbre. What about the drive (gain staging) on the 202?
CalvaryBand
Biom wrote:
CalvaryBand wrote:
less flexible than the Moog too


Could you, please, elaborate on this? It is just what I'm trying to figure out between the two - how diverse is each one's sonic palette regarding the chorus and flange section.

As I mentioned, the BBD delay is pretty much covered by the minifooger, which sounds pretty close to what I heard from 104m. The 104m is a bit longer and the LFO is a great feature, but sonically they seem very close to me. Would not call them bright at all though, especially on longer delays. The drive section there is another great feature to add variations to the timbre.


The LFO and CV inputs would be the big difference; syncing up the repeats with external sources is a big divider, especially with flanging and delays. With units like the AD-202, you give up that control.
Biom
Yes yes, that's good to know

Thank you!
Kent
Biom wrote:
Oh, nice to hear your opinion, as I'm a bit of a follower of yours here on Muff!
What do you think about the 230' flanger, compared to 108M?

Yes, I'm also leaning towards the 108M for lots of common reasons.
They also are among the sexiest FX units I've ever touched, begging to tweak them. Just trying to control these visual / aesthetic feelings to not let them dominate me)


That’s kind of you to say. Thank you.

My answer is pretty obvious: I kept the 108M and sold the 230. The Ibanez units were trying to do something different in comparison to the design goals of the MF-108M. The Ibanez units were as close to studio-quality as one could get with that budget and feature set. The Moog is really more of a FSU unit. Plus, it has the drive control on the input and that can be a thing of glory.

Perhaps a cleaner and more metallic flange on the Ibanez than the Moog which is dirtier. It has been 5 years since I’ve sold the Ibanez so my memory is foggy.
Biom
Now you described it perfect. A great FSU is what I was looking for.
Yes, the fooger drive is the DRIVE!

Well, seems I'll go with the 108M, but still very tempted to listen to the Ibanez unit someday.

Thank you, guys, for having taken the time to share your thoughts, which is very much appreciated, as usual!
Kent
You are welcome. It’s fun to reminisce. Each unit is good. Each sounds good at what they do. The certainly don’t sound alike.
GuyaGuy
In case you've not seen this. It shows the flanger and chorus side of the 202.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6orCGpGtWI&t=559s


I know you said you have delay covered, but it's worth mentioning that the Clusterflux doesn't do delays. Max delay time is 10ms I believe. But it can be used as an oscillator and be MIDI and CV controlled which is where the fun stuff is!
Rost + Licht
Tbh I sold my 202 this month with no regrets. Always preferred the Tone of the Delay from the Minifooger. The Chorus I didn't use that much, mainly because its Mono.



The Doubling effect on drum hits can be fun, but really is a one trick pony and didn't quite justify for me to keep such a big box..

For the BIG Moogerfoogers tho.. I just got an 12 Stage Phaser and the LFO on it can go wiiiild. Also you can use the two audio outputs to get kind of a positive and negative of the filtered sound. Thus you can create an Leslie Rotary kind of effect. I'm sure the Cluster Flux has even more Modulation capabilities. Moog is pretty good.

For straight up Chorus effects, this might be also sth to put an eye on. This Demo catched me, maybe just trought the pure playing :: )



Good Luck!
Biom
oh, thank you for the videos!

The Tetra - Ibanez video I've seen. Sounds not too convincing to be honest, but it's just me.
While the flanger sounds pretty awesome in this Livity Sound demo. Their first tracks were just exactly based on drums running through the FX, which was cool and refreshing and had a great energy and sound!

Can the 108m flanger sound as good?


As for the delay lacking in 108m - yes, I'm pretty happy with my minifooger for now. I have spent million hours with the real thing (104m) and, of course, they are not the same and the lfo contribute a lot to the pedal, but still it doesn't cost as much as it does now. Silly hype.
So, going with the 202 will give me an all in one unit, but I'm not sure I would love the delay sound of it more and it isn't portable at all. So, not sure.

@Rost + Licht: congrats with the phaser! I'm also thinking about it too, but no good demos as well and the other half of me tells me it may be a one trick pony, which is not strange. A phaser is a phaser.
GuyaGuy
Biom wrote:


Can the 108m flanger sound as good?

...

and, of course, they are not the same and the lfo contribute a lot to the pedal, but still it doesn't cost as much as it does now.

And of course you can modulate the Minifooger as long as you have an external LFO handy...say, from the Cluster Flux for example...

I can't say if the 108m will sound as good to you, but it is a very lovely flanger that can do everything from lush to harsh metallic sounds.
mg05
Is the AD 190 Time Machine very different from the AD-202?
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