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285r v.1 vs v.2?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author 285r v.1 vs v.2?
Fuzz
Hi everyone,

I’ve seen a few 285r’s up for sale and they’re listed as “v.1” modules. Can someone tell me the difference between a v.1 and a v.2?

Thanks!
Synesthesia
V1 is a digital version of the modules, powered by 2 Spin FV1 chip. I have one, I like it wink

V2 is pretty much like the original, same circuit... I remember looking at the bom - there is a whole collection of J201's ( more expensive bom ) and calibration is a much more complicated exercise, so i would expect for it to be sold for much more money.
MechaSeb
V1 Balanced modulator sounds great.
I wouldn't say the same for the Frequency Shifter part.
Personally i thought it was not sounding very good...
Synesthesia
ah but you are french Seb - french people are never happy about anything lol
mritenburg
MechaSeb wrote:
V1 Balanced modulator sounds great.
I wouldn't say the same for the Frequency Shifter part.
Personally i thought it was not sounding very good...


I did an A/B comparison with the v.1 285r and a 285e. The balanced/ring modulators sounded the same. The 'sum' output of the 285r frequency shifter sounded like the 285e. The 'difference' output on the 285r didn't produce anything like the 285e. I didn't care for the sound of the 'difference' output in the 285r. Yet, Overall, they sounded quite similar.
Fuzz
[quote="mritenburg"]
MechaSeb wrote:

I did an A/B comparison with the v.1 285r and a 285e. The balanced/ring modulators sounded the same. The 'sum' output of the 285r frequency shifter sounded like the 285e. The 'difference' output on the 285r didn't produce anything like the 285e. I didn't care for the sound of the 'difference' output in the 285r. Yet, Overall, they sounded quite similar.


Would you say the “difference output” is worth he $500 extra to get the e version?
MechaSeb
Quote:
ah but you are french Seb - french people are never happy about anything lol


T'es français aussi il me semble, non ? Mr. Green
Let's say that it would be too long to explain and i'm already unhappy with the reply i would adress. hihi

[quote="Fuzz"]
mritenburg wrote:
MechaSeb wrote:

I did an A/B comparison with the v.1 285r and a 285e. The balanced/ring modulators sounded the same. The 'sum' output of the 285r frequency shifter sounded like the 285e. The 'difference' output on the 285r didn't produce anything like the 285e. I didn't care for the sound of the 'difference' output in the 285r. Yet, Overall, they sounded quite similar.


Would you say the “difference output” is worth he $500 extra to get the e version?


Well, to be frank, i didn't like much the 285e either. The frenquency shifter part sounded a bit sterile for me. Still, the "e" version offers "remote" functions which can be handy and it was sounding slightly better than the "r rev1" version to my ears (thanks for mritenburg for the details answer & A/B comparison). Try to do a very slow beating/phasing and/or barberpole patch with the 285rev1... good luck (!).

My reference for the moment still remains the Serge FRS (once well calibrated) but i heard great things from Modcan (both analog & digital version) among others anolog & digital versions in Eurorack. Wondering how the 285r Rev2 is sounding ?
mritenburg
Fuzz wrote:
mritenburg wrote:

I did an A/B comparison with the v.1 285r and a 285e. The balanced/ring modulators sounded the same. The 'sum' output of the 285r frequency shifter sounded like the 285e. The 'difference' output on the 285r didn't produce anything like the 285e. I didn't care for the sound of the 'difference' output in the 285r. Yet, Overall, they sounded quite similar.


Would you say the “difference output” is worth he $500 extra to get the e version?


The 285e doesn't have sum and difference outputs. It has shift up and shift down outputs that definitely sound better than the difference output on the 285r v.1. Is that alone worth the extra $500?, probably not.
MechaSeb
mritenburg wrote:
The 285e doesn't have sum and difference outputs. It has shift up and shift down outputs


It does. It's just a different denominations for a same function. thumbs up
A Frequency shifter is similar to a RingMod (Balanced Modulator)but comparatively, you have separately both Sum (Shift/Up) & Difference (Shift/down) signals. If the 285r Rev1 doesn't give you good results in down signals (i don't have mine anymore), too me, it means you loose half of the utility of this module i.e. large stereo effects, pseudo-phasing etc.

Try to feedback the Sum (Up) out to its own Input.
Then now have the modulator tuned to the frequency of the carrier but slight shifted off from a few Hz. This should give you the so called ascending "barbepole" effect. Now if you want to have it descending you need to apply the same patch with Difference output...
missingtwin
I wanted to hate the 285e, it caused me so many headaches with it locking up my system that I took it out of the case and built up a 285r (don’t know which version, it was about 2-3 years ago).

Conclusion: there is magic in the 285e that the r version doesn’t have, especially in the FS section. The bass and percussion that comes out of that thing is so smooth. The audio FM is weird (at best) though.

I had to cut the data cables on the 285e and sold the 285r.

dougcl’s bus repeaters have since saved the day and healed my 285e.
Fuzz
Does anyone know if 285r v.2's circuit gets closer to 285e's Frequency Shifter section?
Drillionaire
Fuzz wrote:
Does anyone know if 285r v.2's circuit gets closer to 285e's Frequency Shifter section?


If the v.2 285r is a true clone of the 200 series 285r, I would guess that the 285r v.2 is extremely similar to the 285e. The main difference between the 285 and 285e is that the out-of-phase sinewave references that do the frequency shifting (higher frequency = more shifting up/down) are generated from a DAC on the CPU in the 285e and are analog oscillator(s) in the original 285.

I would guess the 285r is very similar to the original 285 in this regard.

If you're curious about the circuit, the service manual for the Bode Frequency Shifter that the 285 is similar to is very descriptive.
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com/pdfs/Bode%20frequency%20shifter%20serv icing.pdf
ym2612
The carrier oscillator in the frequency shifter section of the 285r v1 I built produced a very squashed, seemingly distorted waveform, not a pure sine at all, which added a lot of harmonics to any signal I was trying to process. The shifting was not very interesting to my ears. The lack of internal feedback and sub-audio carrier oscillators in Buchla frequency shifters hurts their usefulness for me.

The ring mod was nice and clean, at least.
jimfowler
I’m just starting on my 285r V2. Once I’m done and happy with it I’ll try to put some audio here.

- Jim
Peake
Smallbear have J201 for $0.95, work perfectly in a 285r V2. Not unlimited stock, but these work.

http://www.smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/transistor-fet-j201 -siliconix/
jimfowler
Thanks Mike. I have a strong compulsion to try and use the original spec’d parts. That tactic has worked out well for me on my last 4-5 modules.
Peake
smile Nothing at all wrong with using 2N4339 except determining their pinout!
Fuzz
Awesome, can't wait to hear it!

jimfowler wrote:
I’m just starting on my 285r V2. Once I’m done and happy with it I’ll try to put some audio here.

- Jim
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