DIY Clap'a'Trap ** Assembly Results & Trigger Update ***

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tron23
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Post by tron23 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:03 am

pcb, panel combo here too please. :guinness:

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syntherjack
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Post by syntherjack » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:23 am

Great job! Did you have any 566 tuning problems when using original schematics? Did you have to change R62/R80 resistors values or timing capacitor? Af far as i remember, I had some issues with that :/ Cheers!
homepage :: syntherjack.net

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:00 am

syntherjack
Did you have any 566 tuning problems when using original schematics
I guess I'll find out when my PCBs arrive.
I didn' breadboard this one.
Thank you for letting me know. :tu:
I'll provide this feedback once I'm debugging.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

Dunk_91
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Post by Dunk_91 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:32 am

Also one set for me, eventually :)

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realitycontrol
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Post by realitycontrol » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:06 am

Looks great, I'd be up for an unpopulated PCB, potentially with a panel.

If there was potential for a version with CV over a good handful of the parameters then I'd be all over that.

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Boogie
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Proto PCBs received

Post by Boogie » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:44 am

Proto PCBs have arrived.

Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:11 pm

Looking good :)

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tron23
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Post by tron23 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:02 am

:party:

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:00 pm

Julian's front panel arrived as well.
Here are some mock-up pictures.

ImageImage
The push buttons might have been a bit higher,
but they are still well reachable with about 1 mm outside front panel.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:59 pm

Looks great.

Keep up the great work, Boogie!!

a|x

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makhho
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Post by makhho » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 pm

909/erica synth style program buttons or even your MP7/MiniP7 style buttons + a tad bit higher out of the module?

very good work boogie!

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am

makhho
or even your MP7/MiniP7 style buttons
they are the same buttons, but now the PCB is at 12mm instead of 8mm behind the FrontPanel.
a tad bit higher out of the module
Honestly, that's also my idea.
I will look for a not too expensive sollution.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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Swyndger
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Post by Swyndger » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:29 am

Yes, I would be in, for a PCB and Panel!
And as it was mentioned before: Any plans on making a XL-version with CV control for some of the parameter?

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:48 am

Swyndger
Yes, I would be in, for a PCB and Panel!
I'll add you to the list
Any plans on making a XL-version with CV control for some of the parameter?
not yet, at least for the time being.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:06 am

How long are the legs of those switched?

Would it be possible to raise them slightly from the PCB before soldering, so they poked through the panel a bit more?

I’d be a bit worried that, if you didn’t do that, you might be able to push the buttons down far enough for them to catch on the underside of the panel.

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:25 am

Hello all,

sorry to keep you waiting for about 2 weeks.

One of the reasons why it took me so long is:
the original schematics (as found on the internet) are not representing the ClapTrap as demoed here:


So back to the drawing board and start designing and simulating, keeping in mind the public schematics and some PCB pictures of the original.

The result in waveform is at the end of this post.
(Video to follow later)

@syntherjack
Did you have any 566 tuning problems when using original schematics
I guess I'll find out when my PCBs arrive.
I didn' breadboard this one.
Well Jack,
I had to change a lot more to get pretty close to the original.
Yes the RC have changed as well as some other stuff on timings, humanizer, etc...I also didn't use a 3080 but used an LM13700, this also needed some small modifs.

@toneburst
Would it be possible to raise them slightly from the PCB before soldering, so they poked through the panel a bit more?
That's exactly what I did on the proto.
It's looking better and feeling better.
Image Image
I’d be a bit worried that, if you didn’t do that, you might be able to push the buttons down far enough for them to catch on the underside of the panel.
That's OK, they will not get stuck under the FP, travel is only about 0.5 mm.
I may considder to do a small PCB for the switches as I did for the MP7 (same reason).


Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:52 am

@Boogie
Damn.. that must have been frustrating... So were the schematics you found for a different version, or something?

You could make some spacers for the switches out of PCB material, with holes for the stitch legs to pass through to the main board underneath, rather than making a completely separate board for the switches. Maybe that's what you did already.

Keep up the great work, anyway. Really looking forward to seeing this project materialise.

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:04 pm

toneburst
So were the schematics you found for a different version, or something?
I found two youtube movies with a demo. The one I mentioned above has the cleanest configurations to distinguish between the 'hiss' and 'ensemble'.

Anyhow, the schematics on the internet contain all main components, it's just that some (read multiple) connections are different, multiple values of caps and resistors are different, etc...
But..I succeeded to make it pretty close.
You could make some spacers for the switches out of PCB material
That's exactly what I did. I placed a small piece of PCB underneath the switches, soldered them and pulled back the small piece of PCB.
Really looking forward to seeing this project materialise.
Next step is updating the schematics, modifying the PCB and ordering a couple for a new prototype.
Unfortunately for throughput, summer holidays are very nearby.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:26 am

Boogie wrote:That's exactly what I did. I placed a small piece of PCB underneath the switches, soldered them and pulled back the small piece of PCB.
I was thinking more that you could make a little 'shim' with holes for the button legs to go through, and it could be left in place. This might be stronger then leaving a gap underneath the components.

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:14 am

toneburst
I was thinking more that you could make a little 'shim' with holes for the button legs to go through, and it could be left in place.
Some double sided pcb with through hole metalisation should do the job.
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:06 am

It could be a 'break-off' addition to the main PCB.

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syntherjack
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Post by syntherjack » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:00 am

Boogie wrote: @syntherjack
Did you have any 566 tuning problems when using original schematics
I guess I'll find out when my PCBs arrive.
I didn' breadboard this one.
Well Jack,
I had to change a lot more to get pretty close to the original.
Yes the RC have changed as well as some other stuff on timings, humanizer, etc...I also didn't use a 3080 but used an LM13700, this also needed some small modifs.
I'm glad you had similar problems :)
The waveforms you got there are really nice! In case you want to make further comparisons, this is the record of the original analog ClapTrap I got from friend (ensemble only).
Cheers!
Jack
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
homepage :: syntherjack.net

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:58 am

hello syntherjack
this is the record of the original analog ClapTrap I got from friend (ensemble only)
thanks for the sample.
Turns out it does contain noise, see screendump(s) below.
Some further analysis shows the highest tuned ensemble frequency is a lot lower then the one in the youtube movie. So is the lowest ensemble frequency.

I'll enlarge the tuning range of the Clap'a'Trap to cover for both.

Would it be possible to let me know if it was a MK I or MK II ? (see picture below)


Image
Image
Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

toneburst
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Post by toneburst » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:08 am

Is the Mk.2 digital? I have a feeling I read somewhere that the Mk.1 was all-analogue, whereas the Mk.2 was digital.

Not sure if that's relevant...

I don't think you necessarily have to stick slavishly to the ranges of the original controls.

If it sounds good to extend the range of some controls, then I'd say "go for it".

Keep up the great work!

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Boogie
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Post by Boogie » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:56 am

toneburst
Both of the units on the picture above are analog.
A picture of the digital version below.
If it sounds good to extend the range of some controls, then I'd say "go for it".
Yes indead, I'm aiming for good sound and then release it.

Image
-------------------------------------------------------
“Digital generated ‘analog’, is missing its analog soul and therefore isn’t analog any more.”
Jupiter 8 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209322
Minipops 7 clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=199360
ClapTrap clone: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=202248
www.nabla-instruments.com

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