MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

My Live Set Journey
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Play Out! Performance Modulars Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author My Live Set Journey
Ypsi Kid
Hey guys,

figured I would post in here with respect to my journey towards putting together a live set - idea being to have a mix of improvisation and recall. I'm basing a bit of this off of Steevio's approach which has been talked about on here and then using Mylar Melodies great videos to help further concept/idea. Still early stages and I'm still fully figuring out how I want to approach it, but I've gotten a Steevio/Mylar Melodies improvisation patch setup approach close to finalized and can jam out a song right now.

Will try and capture my journey here and happy to answer questions, although I think I'll probably have a ton of questions as I work through this.

I have a couple of videos up on youtube, although sometimes my GO:MIXER is a b*tch and doesn't record despite several attempts, so I just record the output and put some crappy visuals to it - LOL! If anyone else has issues with their Roland GO:MIXER not recording all the time (it records, but the video seems to be corrupt), please let me know.

Jam from late last year (this is more of the pre-prepare approach using the er101):



2nd jam from March, again this being more of a pre-planned approach, but using Turing machine for some spice:



3rd jam from last night using the improvisation technique (2 sequencers, 2 precision adders and quantizers):



Would love to hear what people think outside of the shitty video for the last 2! Cheers!
Ypsi Kid
Here's another jam with pretty much the same patch as Wednesday night with some slight changes. There are parts where it gets away from me but I'm able to pull it back - just highlight the power of this approach. Have to get some better drum work/variation and a bit of a plan for how to approach - this was just tune the oscillators and go (recorded in one take and please excuse the shitty video, still getting that locked down).

Ypsi Kid
Here's another quick snippet. I'm looking at combining several different modulation sources and then cross-fading between them. This modulation is over and above the Maths modulation, so really opens up the door to being able to effectively change things over time in an interesting way. I'm feeding the modulation into the Doepfer a-106-5 SEM filter clone (I love this filter!), it's going into the 2nd modulation input and Maths is still driving the main modulation input (although it's staying static in this example, I'm just looking at the mixing of modulation sources here). Works really well and I'll need to incorporate this into the workflow for the live set. Hopefully have a longer video coming soon where I'll try this to extend what I can do. Will also try and focus on making the drums more interesting.

Let me know if you have questions.

Ypsi Kid
Friday night, kids in bed and wife is out with some friends. What better chance to take this patch for another quick run! Only changes here are that I added the Oberheim SEM for additional voices (love that synth!). Like the way it worked out. Was playing a bit more to try and vary the drums easily, turned back to Roland Scooper for this role. Gotta remember to change then trigger sequences once in a while - LOL! Coming along pretty good, once again all improvised outside of the drum sequence.

Ypsi Kid
Some general observations for myself over the past week, things I need to think about in order to approve the approach!

1. Drums - Need to find a way of making the drums more varied and interesting and how to change up kits between sections/songs/whatever.

2. Pitch CV - How to best control the different pitch CV sources to get more predictable results when improvising. Looking to better understand the application here, definitely powerful, but takes some time to get your arms around it.

3. Sections - moving between a improvised section/piece to more of a sequenced one so I have a defined 'framework' to fall back on/play with it the improvisation isn't quite where I want it. Basically the ability to move between known sequenced events and the precision adder approach (maybe even be able to combine them).

4. Routers & Switches - how to make more use of these to get different routings in my system. Again, this gives some flexibility in terms of what triggers/cv get sent where so I can change things more predictably on the fly with good results.

5. Modulation matrix - sending several different modulation CV sources to a mixer/matrix in order to be able to easily change up modulation for different sections.

So lots to take in and experiment with, but also more planning I need to do. Also need to think more about removing trigger/gates and CV and the best way of recombining them! Need to sit down and better map out what I want to do. Build the framework so I can build whatever I want over top with the materials I wanna use! Plan for improvisation - LOL - kind of like an oxymoron!

Hoping to have more experiments posted this week. Lemme know if you have questions or suggestions!

Cheers.
pixelforest
Ypsi Kid wrote:

1. Drums - Need to find a way of making the drums more varied and interesting and how to change up kits between sections/songs/whatever.

Cheers.


my solution is multiple drum modules so i can jump between them and tweak the one not currently in use - snare + clap, 808 + 909 hats (hexinverter and tiptop, respectively). and then also a drumdokta in the rack for a complete change.
Ypsi Kid
pixelforest wrote:

my solution is multiple drum modules so i can jump between them and tweak the one not currently in use - snare + clap, 808 + 909 hats (hexinverter and tiptop, respectively). and then also a drumdokta in the rack for a complete change.


Thanks pixelforest, I appreciate the insight. This is probably my biggest weakness right now is drum variation. Been thinking a little more on how to do this, need to concentrate on it during jams as that part really needs to get better.

Thanks again!
Ypsi Kid
Here's another jam from last night. Same patch with some minor tweaks with respect to where and how the pitch cv is being handled. Tried using the scooper for some drum mangling but failed badly. Drums are boring, but everything else is getting there.

Ypsi Kid
Another jam with the patch last night. The drums are better in this one, but still struggling a bit with pitch CV, at times I lose track of what does what with pitch which makes for some crappy moments. Overall getting better, but need to get a better handle on changing pitch and have it do what I think it's going to do - haha! Super fun patch, have some ideas for extending what I'm doing now, but need more patch cords as I've run out!

Lemme know if you have a questions or comments. Interested to know what people think.



Cheers!
Ypsi Kid
Here's another video from a jam last night. Definitely getting more comfortable finding my way round the patch. Changed it up slightly again with pitch CV, the Harmonaig supplies the intervals from an incoming root notes, I use a switched multiple to step between the different intervals - made for a bit more control which was nice. Coming along!

mirth23
Thanks for this series, I'm really enjoying going through it and reading your thinking about how this is evolving. I'm beginning to attempt something similar but am not quite as far along in assembling the pieces into a whole. smile
Ypsi Kid
mirth23 wrote:
Thanks for this series, I'm really enjoying going through it and reading your thinking about how this is evolving. I'm beginning to attempt something similar but am not quite as far along in assembling the pieces into a whole. smile


Hey man,

no problem at all, glad you are enjoying it! I'm finding it helpful to write down my thoughts so I can go back and re-read/understand my thinking as I'm still wrapping my head around this concept/approach (also helps me to retain the stuff I'm learning). It also keeps momentum going with the project and moving in the right direction - keeps me focused on the end goal as I tend to have, what I call, music A.D.D. where I would constantly shift what I was doing instead on focusing on a few ideas. While super fun, didn't accomplish a lot.

Definitely let me know if you have any questions, would be glad to help where I can man and plus this is super fun/interesting to talk about anyway smile

Cheers!
Ypsi Kid
Here's a jam from last night. I had thought I had gotten my arms around the wild beast, but still have some taming to do. Jammed before recording and didn't have any 'accidents' so-to-speak with pitch info, started jamming when the camera was on and had a few 'lost' moments where the wild beast gets away from me. My longest jam yet though at 17mins, so definitely making some progress (the beats are definitely better through this one, more of a flow). Overall some good parts and some not so good parts (even had some acid action going on at one point)!

Things I'm thinking about:

1. This is an obvious one, but worth mentioning, make sure to take the range down on your Pitch CV generators so your pitches are very controllable with the precision adders (I'm settling on 1 octave range and this seems to work well).
2. Another obvious one, but less is more. Move through the voices 1 at a time and use gates & filter modulation from the modulation matrix to add interest (no need to pile everything on top of each other at once). Look to combine elements to increase the energy in the set at different points.
3. I've tested a few different approaches to controlling the pitch CV, placement of quantizers, using VC switches to switch between different voices which are all on intervals of the root note (this last one I like probably the best for flexibility). But I think I'll continue to tinker with this until I have something that totally makes sense for me.
4. Using the patterns on the Eloquencer works well for changing patterns on the fly, just need to figure out a bit better way for more interest. So using the gate probability function will help with this. I would also like to use my burst generator for some HH roll action, I'll get to this eventually - LOL!

Lemme know if you have any comments or questions!

R.U.Nuts
Haven't checked your vids yet, but one tip on how to address your lack of drum variation: Maybe try turning voices you don't use in a certain sections for percussive sounds. For example a VCO with hefty dynamic expo FM can make some nice tom/BD sounds. Remove the modulation and you're back into melodic territory.
I for example make good use of a radio music loaded with noisy disharmonic samples into a VCA for metallic percussion. It then only requires me to change the sample and change the envelope on the VCA to switch from a hihat sound to a chord stab or even a harmonic drone.
Ypsi Kid
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Haven't checked your vids yet, but one tip on how to address your lack of drum variation: Maybe try turning voices you don't use in a certain sections for percussive sounds. For example a VCO with hefty dynamic expo FM can make some nice tom/BD sounds. Remove the modulation and you're back into melodic territory.
I for example make good use of a radio music loaded with noisy disharmonic samples into a VCA for metallic percussion. It then only requires me to change the sample and change the envelope on the VCA to switch from a hihat sound to a chord stab or even a harmonic drone.


Thanks for the response man and interesting that you've mentioned this as it is something I have thought about and can totally see the value in doing, I just need to sit down and figure out how to set up efficiently within this current patch. I've tried it, but have not focused on it yet - something I'd like to figure out, once I get more patch cords I think I may be able to patch this up in my system.

Thanks again for the suggestion, and glad to know others are doing this with great effect, just have to develop the patch to incorporate this!

Cheers!
R.U.Nuts
I see you have a DPO in your rack. With the DPO it's prety easy to go from a melody line to a percussive timbre with just a few twists:
Apply the same envelope you use for the output VCA your DPO runs through to the FM index. Now when you want to have a percussion sound just set your envelope to a percussive contour and turn up the FM index attenuator (FM index panel control at minimum) and turn up the expo FM attenuator at the VCO you want to modulate -or on both VCOs. DPO is capable of some earth shaking drum sounds.
Another quick and easy way to get some percussion sounds with basically no additional ressources:

If you have patched a classic East Coast style synth voice:

Try changing the signal chain from VCO>VCF>VCA to VCO>VCA>VCF. This will very likely have little effect on your basic sound but you can apply a nice trick now: Turn up the VCF's resonance just below self-oscillation and set the attack and decay time of your VCA in front of your VCF to minimum: Voi lá: Your VCA envelope now pings your filter and you have some nice clean sine-percussion sounds. Expand this with a voltage controlled envelope for the VCA and send a rythmic gate signal to the decay CV input. Now you have your VCO's sound back again every time the envelope gets lengthened by the gate signal.
Here's a little example how that sounds:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/kelkilli[/s]

The woody percussion and the squelchy synth sound is DPO VCO A through a VCA into Xaoc Belgrad using the patch described above. The bass is DPO VCO B FMed and AMed by VCO A. The shaker sound is Wogglebug XOR out through a VCA.
Ypsi Kid
Thanks R.U.Nuts - this is a HUGE help and something I will be exploring over the coming days/weeks, so a massive thanks for outlining the above - appreciate it (and thanks for the great example).

Coming soon! Thanks again man, gave me lots to think about.
Ypsi Kid
Here's a jam from tonight, may be the bet one yet. R.U.Nuts, will be looking to patch something similar in the very near term. I was able to switch drum kits and patters on this as well for even more interest. Really liking where this is going.

Ypsi Kid
Just got back from a nice vacation and ready to jump back into the project. Was thinking a lot about melody and different ways to get melody out of this setup (I have a few different quantizers that have some nice functionality to try this with - Instruo Harmonaig, O&C Quantizer and/or Harrington 1200 mode), and now I picked up some additional cables, looking to explore a bit further.

Still need to try the idea outlined earlier about using the DPO to switch between different sounds/functions - looking to hopefully explore this as well with the new cables.

The below jam was a short one, but kind of opened my eyes to using the DarkTime as a trigger source, triggering the Chord Organ which goes into a filter and then modulated by a modulation matrix I created with the A138m - holy crap this is so powerful and fun to use!

Ypsi Kid
First time hitting the 20min mark, pretty happy about that. Overall really like this jam, it takes a bit to get going and I think I overuse the sample a bit, but once it gets going, I think it's pretty good! There was a lot of stuff I didn't do in this jam, so the 60min goal I think is in sight if I can make sure to use all the techniques through the set. Changed drum kits 3 times and it sounded pretty tight (even had some breaks in there!).

Still a few things to explore, sort out but I'm having such a blast exploring this setup, it just keeps giving back. So fun! Here's the 20min jam (no edits, I just hit record and went with it - took a bit to sort out where the hell my first synth sound was, but after that, it takes off nicely I think).

Interested to know what others think!

Ypsi Kid
A couple of more jams from the weekend. Just playing with the patch to get further familiar with what it can do. And damn is it fun!! The first jam I'm really happy with outside of the bit of distortion on the recording from being too hot. The 2nd jam is pretty good too, better levels. Getting better at this, still a few things I need to explore to get further, but 60min goal is in sight. I need to try and get some sequences together with the er101 that I can work over and above the improve stuff - kind of like a fall back plan.

Getting there, let me know if you have questions!



Ypsi Kid
Had a great lunch time jam yesterday. Was really just trying to further wrap my head around the routing and how I can change it on the fly and looking at other things I can do to keep the flow going. Ended up with a pretty decent 8min jam (outside of some distortion with one of my OSC's).

Big thing here is that I was using a Doepfer sequential switch to take the inputs of 4 tuned OSC (all tuned to a interval of the root). These OSC's also had the ability to get CV info from the Doepfer precision adder (being quantized by O&C quantizer). So I had the ability to switch from 1 note/1 OSC to 4 different notes and 4 different OSC's which are being triggered by either trigger source 1 or 2. Also had the Music Thing Modular Chord Organ along with a Chord Sample being played by the BitBox (these were set to a different trigger source as well to give me even more flexibility). Also leaning the Doepfer a138m modulation matrix for modulating the filters. Also still using envelopes for both VCA & VCF for further sculpting the sound. Turned out it works awesome for jamming!

The journey continues (and what a fun journey it has been!). Let me know if you have questions about anything.

Ypsi Kid
I decided to un-patch everything yesterday as I was starting to lose track of the small changes I was doing with the routing. Was a bit worried about pulling everything apart, but wanted to put it back together slowly, piece by piece (more channel by channel) so I can fully understand what is possible with the routing. Also was making me think about changing a few things, particularly with the envelopes and routing. I also wanted to include some routing so I could trigger a sequencer and use that for some percussion that would be related to the main rhythm/triggers (these are triggering samples in the 1010 Music BitBox). In terms of the envelope changes, I've decided to try and use the VCF at the end of the chain as opposed to having the VCF before the VCA (it now sits after the VCA). Finding it helps with sound sculpting a bit better.

Here's a fun little 5min jam of the first piece of the live patch. I need to start recording these into my DAW as they kinda of stand out as tracks. Anyways, hope you enjoy and let me know if you have any questions.

Ypsi Kid
Here's a jam I did a couple of weekends ago as I was bummed out that I didn't get to make it to Shambhala Music Festival this year. Did a bit of a breaks jam that turned out really well.

Next on the list to explore is xenharmonic tuning and custom xenharmoic scales for my quantizers. This coupled with leveraging FM to get other tones that I can use.

Although I'm still struggling a bit with the precision adders and quantizers. Despite several iterations in terms of signal flow, I still can't seem to fully tame the beast if you will. Gonna need more work with respect to that (but I think this alternate tuning may help some with that).

Hope you enjoy!

Ypsi Kid
Definitely feel like I'm moving in the right direction after identifying a faulty module in the chain. Getting way more predicable results with the CV adding and subtraction to pretty good effect. This was a fun jam with the modular based off of a new patch I built in the Orthogonal Devices ER301 - a sample player which is rotating between 10 different samples I loaded. The sample player is being modulated by 3 since wave oscillators acting as LFO's for various parameters on the sample player. Didn't know it would fit so well with the stuff I'm doing, but I think it gives things added texture. More tools for the live set, getting closer.

MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Play Out! Performance Modulars Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Page 1 of 3
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group