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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

The Great Global Eurorack Trade-off thread!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author The Great Global Eurorack Trade-off thread!
khyber
To me, one of the greatest aspects of playing around with my modular system are some of the happy accidents and surprises I come across. Plugging one module into another, many times plugging it into the wrong module, can produce all kinds of results I never imagined possible. As predictably (or unpredictably) as I might build (and rebuild) my rig, I am constantly charmed by the amount of ideas I discover by simply trying new things and building on new concepts.

With this aspect of discovery and surprise in mind, I want to propose an idea and see how much traction it might have in the community.

Now, this thread may eventually belong in the For Sale forum, I didn't put it there for obvious reasons, but imagine receiving a package in the mail from a totally random wiggler that contains a random module for you to add to your rig and keep. The only caveat is that you then have to continue the chain of trading and send one module that you don't use or want anymore to another random wiggler.

The kindness would not go without gratitude, in order to keep the participation active and accounted for the wiggler who receives their module would need to post a thank you in this thread, and if so inclined, a little jam video of their new module in action. Not only will this allow members to cycle out a module they rarely use anymore, but it will also bring some joy and even a spark of creativity to another member's setup.

I'd dub this effort "The Great Global Eurorack Trade-off". This effort would of course need to be organized to some extent. A coordinating document would need to be established in order to capture everyone who wants to participate. I'm still not sure of the best ways to realize this effort, but I propose the following rules:

1) Everyone interested in participating would sign up in this thread. Their names would be randomly added to a list and this list would be ordered to determine the sequence of who would receive a module. The chain would continue in a linear order until some point when it would be determined that the event has run its course (and the last wiggler to receive a module would need to send a module to the first generous soul who participated).

2) Senders would be required to diligently pack and ship 1 module of their choosing to the wiggler they are assigned. The module should include a power cable and/or anything you'd need to minimally operate the module. The sender would also be required to include a note to identify their username on MW (and maybe some kind words or a note on their favorite ways to use said module). Somehow including tracking info to the (private) coordinating document would help keep things honest.

3) Upon receiving a module, the lucky wiggler would be required to post a thread to identify and thank the user who sent them a module, identify the module they received, and some kind of evidence (either a picture or a small jam video) that they in fact received the module. This wiggler would then be assigned a user whom they have to continue the chain with.

4) Modules being sent should have an equal value to the module that was received. Perhaps this is accomplished by having 2 exchanges going at once (one for modules < $150, and another for those > $150). It would be acceptable to include 2 modules that roughly equal the value of whatever exchange you're a part of. I don't think any modules greater than $300 should be included in this exchange.

5) This is not an opportunity to get rid of broken or cheap modules you never had a use for in the first place. Your traded module should be something purposeful and useful your giftee will appreciate. Maybe you can describe your favorite uses for your traded module in your included note.

6 This exchange would rely on participation and honesty, those who want to be involved would be required to sign up and participate in the thread when their turn comes. Users with less than 150 posts would be barred from participating to help prevent any unscrupulous behavior.

7) Participants would need to indicate whether or not they are comfortable with shipping outside of the USA. We don't want to leave our international brothers and sisters out of this effort. However we would need enough people to volunteer to ship internationally (both domestic and foreign) to make this feasible.

8) The experiment should only run for a set amount of time or among X amount of users. Once 30 modules have been exchanged (for example), the first person to participate will end up receiving a module and the circle would be complete. There's nothing stopping us from hosting another one of these exchanges (if everything went smoothly and it was deemed successful)

I acknowledge there are some challenges to hosting an event like this. A core group of people would need to be selected to help coordinate and keep things running smoothly. I also acknowledge that I'm not sure the best way to organize this kind of thing while also respecting everyone's private information (addresses would need to be exchanged somehow).

Thirdly, it would be very easy for someone to receive a module and then drop off the face of the earth (either purposefully or inadvertently) or saying they shipped their module when in fact they did not, effectively breaking the chain and preemptively ending the experiment. The only person who would stand to lose in this case in the first wiggler to send out a module (since they would never receive anything by the end of the experiment). Given this, and given the fact that I'm proposing the exercise, I would be OK with being patient zero in this experiment and send out the first module.

Anyhow, I think you get the idea here. I think this would be a great exercise in community building, a great way to swap out some modules you're not getting ANY use out of, and a great way to bring some cheer and surprise and inspiration into a fellow wiggler's studio. I'm hoping to get some feedback on the above ideas and to see if anyone would be willing to help coordinate this project. I imagine having a Google Form for signups would be easiest. I'd be happy to create this and manage people's information, but I'm open to other ideas about how to approach here.

Please let me know your thoughts and if you'd be willing to join in the first round of this epic experiment! Rockin' Banana!

EDIT: Please take our survey if you have a moment https://goo.gl/forms/Nw7dhyqZdxtMRNxA3
chysn
It's kind of a cool idea, definitely.

I wonder if it would be best arranged between multiple small groups of 5 or 6 people. Accountability might increase, and the wait of the first sender would be reduced.
Risc_Terilia
I'm not international, I'm domestic, you're international lol
desolationjones
Linear trades are slow. That's good if there's problems (more reaction time before next trade), but bad in terms of planning. E.g. someone signs up and their life situation changes drastically by the time it's "their turn."

Take a look at "math trades" in the board game community. It is the only method I know of for an equitable mass trade in a community. A summary:

1. You post a list of what you have up for trade (your "have list"):
You can list items individually or as bundles (to increase value).

2. Submissions for "have lists" close.

3. You review the total list of everyone's offers.

4. You indicate which hypothetical trades you would make (your "want list"):
For each item in your "have list", you indicate which items on offer you'd trade it for. It's okay to leave your "want list" blank! Maybe nothing interests you, after all.

5. Submissions for "want lists" close.

6. An algorithm determines who you will send your items to:
For each item you send, you are guaranteed to receive one of your relevant wants in return. BUT! You will not necessarily be receiving this item from your trade destination. It's a big network where every trade happens exactly according to your stated desires... doesn't matter whether the trades are direct. And not everything will get traded: even if someone wanted your item, they might have not offered enough wanted items themselves.

It's very neat, but it relies on software and an educated, upstanding community. And it works best regionally to minimize postage (the sender must cover postage). Could fit this forum! I know I'd participate.
Electrostatic
Nice idea, but you lost me with the assumption that domestic shipping was the US of A.

Since when has Muffs been American?
Misk
"It's like uber, but for eurorack!"

I smell a million dollar app! hihi

honestly tho, this is a cool idea smile
Hovercraft
Interesting idea, but I've participated in similar projects before, and we'd be lucky to complete a sequential round of exchanges in under a year with 30 participants. You can estimate 1 in 20 particpants won't ever ship anything out--human nature. Some kind of simultaneous trade probably has a better chance.
stickmann
Electrostatic wrote:
Nice idea, but you lost me with the assumption that domestic shipping was the US of A.

Since when has Muffs been American?


It isn’t an assumption, it is his reality. Your domestic is his foreign and vice-versa. Section 8 also covers this concern. There would be a flag to check if you were comfortable shipping outside of your own country.

It’s a cool idea but I’d probably rather just see a Eurorack rental market than receiving a random module in exchange for shipping cost. Plus there is the issue of liability.
khyber
Borders are meaningless, we are all global citizens SlayerBadger!

But for the purposes of communicating this program would be open to all, distinctions must be made smile.

I like the idea of doing a smaller cohort (10-20) to start off, if the pilot exchange is successful then it wouldn't be too long until another one is launched and opened up to other participants. Regarding rules, and in an effort to allow everyone who wants to participate to participate, I'd offer that those who were involved in the previous 2 exchanges would be exempt from participating in the latest exchange. Depending on how well (or poorly) attended the first exchange is this rule might vary.

Also depending on interest, maybe we limit the first one to just those in the US, Canada, and Mexico. Though depending on who wants to participate and where they are located, this rule might also vary.

Terms of participating would include accepting any liability that may befall you (as the sender or receiver). I think liability would be minimize the more "transparent" we can make the exchange, that is, keeping both trader and tradee visible in the thread to make sure both come through on their part of the project.

I like the idea of establishing the pool of modules which will then be traded off, but I also feel like this takes a lot of the surprise and spontaneity out of the gift. In order to make sure wigglers are available to receive their packages the individual should get alerted ahead of time that something is on the way to them. It would be a shame if someone had their package stolen because they were on vacation (though again, this is a potential liability you accept by participating).

The order of recipients would have to be established ahead of time however in order to keep things organized and well managed. This part should definitely be kept private amongst the organizers but decided before the first module ships.
Electrostatic
stickmann wrote:
Electrostatic wrote:
Nice idea, but you lost me with the assumption that domestic shipping was the US of A.

Since when has Muffs been American?


It isn’t an assumption, it is his reality. Your domestic is his foreign and vice-versa. Section 8 also covers this concern. There would be a flag to check if you were comfortable shipping outside of your own country.

It’s a cool idea but I’d probably rather just see a Eurorack rental market than receiving a random module in exchange for shipping cost. Plus there is the issue of liability.


He's posting on a Canadian run website stating that domestic shipping is from the US and everything else is foreign.
rayultine
everyone gives each other a disting Miley Cyrus

edit: sorry for trolling. I also think this is a fun idea. Probably my set up is too small and dense to contribute
Risc_Terilia
Electrostatic wrote:
stickmann wrote:
Electrostatic wrote:
Nice idea, but you lost me with the assumption that domestic shipping was the US of A.

Since when has Muffs been American?


It isn’t an assumption, it is his reality. Your domestic is his foreign and vice-versa. Section 8 also covers this concern. There would be a flag to check if you were comfortable shipping outside of your own country.

It’s a cool idea but I’d probably rather just see a Eurorack rental market than receiving a random module in exchange for shipping cost. Plus there is the issue of liability.


He's posting on a Canadian run website stating that domestic shipping is from the US and everything else is foreign.


Yeah trying to get something going by excluding most people is a bold move, good luck!
Baddcr
Nice idea, but living in the UK/EU makes this tricky because of VAT Import Duty and Post Office handling fees, typically 24% + £10 here in the UK - this applies to things sent as 'gifts' too and is based on the value of the item so a module worth £200 will attract approximately £60 of fees. I don't think there are any such impositions going the other way smile

Good luck!!
1n
I like this idea.

Given stupid import duty charges, we could start a UK network.

Defining a reasonable range of monetary values could be a way to introduce fairness - or maybe allow people to indicate the kinds of functions they are interested in.
MarcelP
I like the idea of swapping out less used modules for something one might not otherwise try, but wonder if this might not be more practically achieved at regular synth meets/club nights (or whatever a semi-regular meeting of Modular heads is called)? A “blind swap” table with a moderator to verify value is comparable and at least physical condition/power-up... Though maybe something similar happens at these meets anyway? I am too much of a hermit to know!
strangegravity
Electrostatic wrote:
Nice idea, but you lost me with the assumption that domestic shipping was the US of A.

Since when has Muffs been American?


vonstirlitz
Great idea, although obviously I’m excluded from the arbitrary, but probably well chosen, post barrier.

The one risk is, if everyone offloads unloved modules, there might be a reason for it, and everyone ends up with strange utilities that don’t really fit their workflow. Although, that could lead to fun in itself...
stickmann
Electrostatic wrote:


He's posting on a Canadian run website stating that domestic shipping is from the US and everything else is foreign.


The option to trade internationally was actually stated in Section 7, but you didn’t seem to check that. If the OP is from the USA then it doesn’t matter if the website is hosted on Mars, domestic is the USA for them. If we were facing each other and you told me to look left, would you get angry when I looked to your right?

No where in the OP post does it exclude domestic or ‘domestic’ trades. There is even inclusion of the option to ship outside of your own country. Don’t confuse the idea of starting small with a malicious attempt to exclude.
esko997
This might be a stupid question but figured I would ask for clarity: we are trading 'for keeps' in this exercise right?

Lets say I receive a Happy Nerding Super Sawtor and I send out a WMD Arpitect, I now own the Sawtor and the person I am trading the Arpitect to now owns that module correct? This is a trade and not a lend is essentially what I am wanting to confirm.

Clarification aside, I'd be interested in participating. Also +1 for perhaps smaller groups. Might be a good idea to contain trading chains to countries/continents. IE EU trade chain, USA/CA/Mexico, etc etc.
dooj88
Módule à trois
resynthesize
neat idea, throw my name in the hat for participation!
whyfarer
resynthesize wrote:
neat idea, throw my name in the hat for participation!


same. for either linear or mass exchange (or most any sensible alternative)
khyber
Hi everyone,

For those interested, please take a minute to fill out this survey: https://goo.gl/forms/Nw7dhyqZdxtMRNxA3

This will help me assess how we might move forward
1n
khyber wrote:
Hi everyone,

For those interested, please take a minute to fill out this survey: https://goo.gl/forms/Nw7dhyqZdxtMRNxA3

This will help me assess how we might move forward


Clear questions. Thanks for making the survey.
nolongerhuman
Interesting idea.

I filled out the survey, I can't see a lot of downsides to this, it's a pretty cool way for people to try out something in the context of their environment that they otherwise might never have tried.
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