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Pitch Decay Patch?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Pitch Decay Patch?
JensonCoins
Hi hi.

There's no way to fancy this up: I'm trying to patch a bass drop. I feel like between a Renee, Maths, a Doepfer precision adder and a PEG I should have this covered nine ways to Sunday, but I can't figure it out.

What I'd like to do:

New 1v/o note in sequence is sent. Gate produced (Renee QCV and XGate)
Renee gate triggers envelope
Envelope, inverted I presume, blended with 1v/o cv, to subtract from overall signal producing a descending portmanteau

Trigger new note in sequence, repeat descending pattern etc.

So, it's not really glide between notes, it's each note is triggered, then basically decays in pitch--just as I would decay a VCA.

For some reason I can't do it. I can easily get a note to rise from it's starting frequency, but I can't get it to fall.

I'm being a fool, right? Am I? Help?
Keltie
I don’t have most of these modules, but might you try adding an attenuverted env from maths to your pitch signal in the adder. Sticking the adder switch for it in - mode should mean you don’t even need the env to be negative. Kinda guessing, hope it helps.
uniquepersonno2
Could you put the pitch signal into VCA, share the gate into an ASR controlling the VCA, and then use the release to control the pitch drop?
JensonCoins
Yup, I've tried a few different approaches, but the adder still seems to want to... add. In my head, I want it to read an incoming negative voltage, 'add' that negative to the regular positive value from the 1v/o, and produce a net lower voltage. The Doepfer is the A-185-2 (link below), and incoming voltages, apparently, can be set to be added or subtracted from the whole (via the three pole switch).

It seems like it should be a no brainer and I've just patched it wrong or over-complicated it...

http://www.doepfer.de/a1852.htm
JensonCoins
uniquepersonno2 wrote:
Could you put the pitch signal into VCA, share the gate into an ASR controlling the VCA, and then use the release to control the pitch drop?


Thanks. That's interesting: I see how that could work. I'll patch that up when I get back.

I'd still love to figure out how to use the precision adder / Maths 'right' for this as both hold the promise of slew and mixing/inverting signals (definitely why I picked up the Doepfer).

But hey, whatever works smile It's peanut butter jelly time!
th0mas
I *think* you could do this without a precision adder.

rene CV output -> maths ch1 (or 4), set rise and fall times fully CCW

maths ch1 integral output sent to your oscillator.

now you just need to hold that maths channel "fall" time high, and send a low note via rene, when you want d r o p the bass. So, even a gate sent into the Fall input at the same time as the lower pitch is selected, should work.
mojopin
its rising because you are inverting the pitch envelope. You can mix negative offset or just retune the oscillators. Use other channel of maths to slew pitch. Mix results or use two inputs on oscillator.
JensonCoins
th0mas wrote:
I *think* you could do this without a precision adder.

rene CV output -> maths ch1 (or 4), set rise and fall times fully CCW

maths ch1 integral output sent to your oscillator.

now you just need to hold that maths channel "fall" time high, and send a low note via rene, when you want d r o p the bass. So, even a gate sent into the Fall input at the same time as the lower pitch is selected, should work.


Thanks. Will also try that. My intent was that every note could just automatically decay without sending a new low note out (i.e. so I can mult the Renee 1v/o out to have another voice playing the same sequence without the decay).
JensonCoins
mojopin wrote:
its rising because you are inverting the pitch envelope. You can mix negative offset or just retune the oscillators. Use other channel of maths to slew pitch. Mix results or use two inputs on oscillator.


Thank you. This is the concept I have in mind. How would you create and mix the negative offset? Where would you patch the second math channel to in order to slew pitch?
cptnal
I'd use the precision adder after the quantizer to mix an inverted envelope with a sequence. If you use a plain mixer after your quantizer you could lose the integrity of your sequenced pitches, and if you use one before it you'll get a glissando instead of portamento.
R.U.Nuts
Rene trigger to envelope - envelope inverted and long attack/rise time - envelope into expo FM input of your VCO.
lrclazer
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Rene trigger to envelope - envelope inverted and long attack/rise time - envelope into expo FM input of your VCO.


Smooth moves thumbs up
R.U.Nuts
lrclazer wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Rene trigger to envelope - envelope inverted and long attack/rise time - envelope into expo FM input of your VCO.


Smooth moves thumbs up


Thanks! I often have a spare envelope patched to the expo FM input of one of my VCOs. Mostly I use it non inverted and with minimum attack. If I adjust a very short decay and set the FM attenuator fairly low I get a punchier attack. -especially good for pure sines to make them more present in a mix. If I make the decay a little longer and increase the FM index I get a kick/tom sound from a sine. If I don't want any modulation I just have to set the FM attenuator fully CCW. Just a little sub-patch that highly increases the versatility of your whole patch.
Dcramer
If you’re trying to create bass notes that slide down after holding a musical pitch, then you’ll need an ADSR or ASR Envelope that has a sustain level stage and patch it into an FM input on your oscillator.
Simply set the attack stage extremely short, set the release stage to the length of the Decay you want, and ‘tune’ the osc FM input (and osc main freq) so that during the sustain stage you are musically in tune. w00t
mdoudoroff
Dcramer’s solution was so good I had to try it.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/mdoudoroff/pitch-fall[/s]

Since I had two appropriate ADSRs handy, I elaborated it into two hocketed voices; sequencing from Sapél with some gate length modulation assistance from Gatestorm. Magneto (SHIFT mode) takes over in the second half (all wet, no dry).
R.U.Nuts
Dcramer wrote:
If you’re trying to create bass notes that slide down after holding a musical pitch, then you’ll need an ADSR or ASR Envelope that has a sustain level stage and patch it into an FM input on your oscillator.
Simply set the attack stage extremely short, set the release stage to the length of the Decay you want, and ‘tune’ the osc FM input (and osc main freq) so that during the sustain stage you are musically in tune. w00t


Depending on the application your suggestion is the more elegant solution than mine with the inverted slow attack envelope since the pitch won't jump back to the initial frequency once the attack stage is over. However the disadvantage of your idea is that you tune the VCO with the FM attenuator while the envelope is in its sustain stage. This might be a little fiddly. And if you decide to take away the modulation in the middle of a jam and turn down the FM attenuator you'll end up with a detuned VCO screaming goo yo
JensonCoins
Awesome. Thanks all.

Dcramer, yes--super simple solution. I'll patch up Maths as ASDR and try it.

What I ended up doing was:

> Renee CV sequence through Maths channel 3
> Maths envelope, (long attack, short decay), sent to Maths channel 2, then given a negative offset.
> Send the Maths mixed output of 2+3 to DPO 1/vo

The 'drop' and the VCA are both triggered by Renee X gate, so you can just adjust the envelope times to match up, and there you go. I was able to get it working in a similar way through the precision adder, but the 'all Maths' solution was easier to work with.

It also leaves an extra channel (Maths 4), to mix in a vibrato LFO during the descent. The kids still all listen to dubstep, right? seriously, i just don't get it
R.U.Nuts
JensonCoins wrote:
Awesome. Thanks all.

Dcramer, yes--super simple solution. I'll patch up Maths as ASDR and try it.

What I ended up doing was:

> Renee CV sequence through Maths channel 3
> Maths envelope, (long attack, short decay), sent to Maths channel 2, then given a negative offset.
> Send the Maths mixed output of 2+3 to DPO 1/vo

The 'drop' and the VCA are both triggered by Renee X gate, so you can just adjust the envelope times to match up, and there you go. I was able to get it working in a similar way through the precision adder, but the 'all Maths' solution was easier to work with.

It also leaves an extra channel (Maths 4), to mix in a vibrato LFO during the descent. The kids still all listen to dubstep, right? seriously, i just don't get it

You can really get away by just plugging your Maths' envelope into the expo FM input of your DPO and your sequence into the 1V/oct input. No need for the additional patching of Maths.
If you want to stick with your Maths solution you don't need to plug the envelope of Maths into channel 2. You don't apply a negative offset doing so. You invert the envelope. Ch. 1and 4 have their own invertors and they are added to the mix on the sum output if nothing is plugged into the outputs.
So maybe try the following: plug your CV sequence into ch. 2, set the attenuvertor of ch2 fully CW. Set the attenuvertor of ch3 to noon or use it for something else and plug a cable into its output. Now use ch1 as your envelope and set ch1 attenevertor fully CCW. Don't use ch4 or use it for something else and insert a cable into it's output. Take the sum out to the 1V/oct input of your DPO. This way you can use ch3 and 4 elsewhere in your system.
JensonCoins
Thanks to everybody for all the inputs. Solved!

R.U.Nuts, yes, the FM solution works, but I wanted to also have an option that worked with VCOs with no FM (Akemie's in this case). Your tip on Maths channel 1 is awesome. I didn't know it did that.

So, I ended up using Maths channel 2 for CV sequence, then the regular negative offset of channel 1. This left me 3 and 4 free. Yay.

Overly bassy result below (CV also sequence multed to BIA)

https://soundcloud.com/albatronics/bass-drop-test
R.U.Nuts
JensonCoins wrote:
Thanks to everybody for all the inputs. Solved!

R.U.Nuts, yes, the FM solution works, but I wanted to also have an option that worked with VCOs with no FM (Akemie's in this case). Your tip on Maths channel 1 is awesome. I didn't know it did that.

So, I ended up using Maths channel 2 for CV sequence, then the regular negative offset of channel 1. This left me 3 and 4 free. Yay.

Overly bassy result below (CV also sequence multed to BIA)

https://soundcloud.com/albatronics/bass-drop-test


Hey there! Just lemme dick around a last time hihi : What you call an offset is actually an attenuvertor. Offset generators add or subtract static voltages to/from your signal. An attenuvertor multiplies your signal with a factor between +1 and -1. So basically they decrease and/or invert the amplitude of your signal.
Speaking of Maths: The same thing applies to CH.4 as well. The common sense is to descibe Maths as a dual Serge style slope generator with some well curated utilities. But you also could approach it as a four channel bipolar mixer with individual outputs for each channel and slope generators in the signal path of two of the channels.
JensonCoins
R.U.Nuts wrote:

What you call an offset is actually an attenuvertor. Offset generators add or subtract static voltages to/from your signal. An attenuvertor multiplies your signal with a factor between +1 and -1. So basically they decrease and/or invert the amplitude of your signal.
.


Yes! Thank you for the clarification This is fun!
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