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Advice / input on new guitar purchase...(evolving subject)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Guitars, Basses, Amps & FX Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 [all]
Author Advice / input on new guitar purchase...(evolving subject)
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
I think that's why some guitarists have been drawn to the Digitakt, because it's a sampling drum machine with trig conditions, which can add loads of variations to just one pattern.

But their hearts tend to get broken when they realize there's no song mode - pretty much have to run it in tandem with a sequencer that does have song mode, that can send the appropriate program changes at the right times.


No Song-Mode=No go.
For a unit this new and expensive that's a pretty weird decision IMO.

felixer wrote:
best one i found is the arturia beatstep. lots of good random possibilities! pretty affordable too. and nicely/well made.


The Beatsstep seems to been implemented in every other setup on earth by the looks of pics and videoes online. Probably for good reasons.

I dunno.. latly I've been thinking about just free myself of the stigma for "computer on stage". By the end of the day all these units are (weaker) computers. And tell me what's really the difference between a pre-sequenced/pre recorded tracks in a DAW on the computer - and a hardware sequencer, sequencing instrumets live..? There is no nerve or human variations of neither besides the musicians playing to the tracks.
Maybe the difference is sound quality - hearing the different synths, modules and drum machines playing live to the slave... I don't know as I've never played these instruments live.

Foot switches for control is an option that needs exploring.

These are just thoughs that have been surfacing the last days as a have been preparing drum backing tracks for a little outdoor concert for my band (the drummer is on holiday). Ableton Live's Warp feature with "Groove" is such a fantastic, powerful tool for adding intreresting humanization or what have you to drum tracks /sequenced tracks. The Ableton midi editor kinda sucks. But to treat audio with plugins within the daw gives way more possibilities than I can dream of with my limited HD effects units playing live.

I've also been looking at a dedicated hardware Sampler like the current Roland SP-404A for playing back these prepeared tracks, just to eliminate crashes and minimize possible breakdowns. There is some grumbling in forums about the SP-404A, but it's all greek to me as I never owned a sampler.

I really appreciate all the ideas and alternatives you guys have brought here. Good stuff! This is a great forum for knowledge (without the attitude that's so tiresome in other musical forums).

This fall/winter I really want to play live with my electronic ambient pop stuff. Such a fun thing to look forward to and I have much to learn. Get that new guitar, work on effect choices, programme drums and sequenced synths, pads... I might seek an experienced programmer for some help glueing it all together. This is so common amoung the pros before/during touring. As a hobbyist I need allies. Probably many of you do the same.
felixer
Northward wrote:
all these units are (weaker) computers.

not really. they are 'dedicated machines' as apart from the 'universal machine' that a computer is supposed to be. and it seems people like that. where at least the controls mimic an older model (very clear with recorders aka tapemachines). i still call out: 'tape rolling' while we all know i went digital many moons ago ...
as for underpowered: this is the curse of consumer goods. it all just works, if nothing goes funny, or the wind is from the wrong direction, or whatever else can (and will) go wrong. i've seen disasters onstage with gear not working properly. but then i've seen tube/valve amps catch fire onstage (not part of the stageact!), i've musicians fall off stages on to hard concrete etc etc. just another day in hell. military imagery seems hip but i would want military quality in the sense of not failing under extreme conditions.
but alas, most is cheaply made (even the expensive stuff). but then it often is cheap to buy. so if your act really depends on 1 device: get a spare. put it in a nice case. and in the back of the truck. that's the way ...
and if everything was so good&true at home why did you come out?
you need an urge and a fighting mentality to attempt anything like a gig or concert. and it was never easy to do it. even in the old days, before elctrikery ...
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:

. And tell me what's really the difference between a pre-sequenced/pre recorded tracks in a DAW on the computer - and a hardware sequencer, sequencing instrumets live..?


This is by itself a big question that leads down a rabbit hole.

Longevity is one difference. My previous computer was a laptop - first the headphone output stopped working, then one of the fans, then the motherboard itself. Laptops have a short lifespan compared to hardware sequencers. There are people still using old Alesis MMT-8 sequencers for example - a product released in 1998. Quick, name an artist still playing gigs with a 1998 vintage laptop - eg. Compag 286 or an Apple Powerbook.

If you make the right choice of hardware controllers for your computer, you can pretty much reproduce the tactile experience of working with a hardware sequencer's physical controls. When people say they like hardware because of the tactile experience, software based folks can present a good counterargument... if they know what they're doing.

The most common problem I've observed with laptop-based performers is lack of attention to their live sound. They mix all their channels/tracks to dead center in the stereo field, often with reverb on top - so it all sounds like a muddy mess. They just have to learn what panning is, then pan different parts to different places in the stereo field to achieve more separation. Then learn to back off on the reverb instead of just throwing it on top of everything.
GovernorSilver
felixer wrote:
i've seen disasters onstage with gear not working properly. but then i've seen tube/valve amps catch fire onstage (not part of the stageact!), i've musicians fall off stages on to hard concrete etc etc. just another day in hell. ...


I agree with what felixer is getting at here - when you play live, shit can go wrong.

When you hit the stage, you want gear you can trust. If you really do trust a laptop onstage, then that's your personal choice. But a lot of experienced musos prefer hardware that is more sturdily built than a laptop that was not designed for a rougher environment than sitting at a coffee shop.

I have found that the more complicated a setup one has onstage, the more likely something will go wrong too. It helps to be honest with yourself about how simple/complicated your music might actually be. If you just wanna play rock and roll, do you really need an Ableton Live rig with 400 scenes like Pat Metheny?

Again, that's why my friends switched from laptops to Electribes plus a few synths. What do musicians other than the big budget, overly produced types want onstage? Something reliable, durable; and not too complicated. Stuff That Just Freaking Works. Classic examples of studio vs. stage, theorizing vs. practical, etc.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
felixer wrote:
i've seen disasters onstage with gear not working properly. but then i've seen tube/valve amps catch fire onstage (not part of the stageact!), i've musicians fall off stages on to hard concrete etc etc. just another day in hell. ...


I agree with what felixer is getting at here - when you play live, shit can go wrong.

When you hit the stage, you want gear you can trust. If you really do trust a laptop onstage, then that's your personal choice. But a lot of experienced musos prefer hardware that is more sturdily built than a laptop that was not designed for a rougher environment than sitting at a coffee shop.


Yes, this is very strong argument for more rugged gear than a laptop +all the software fuckups that do happen from time to time. In this sense it makes perfectly sense with 'dedicated machines' as Felixer puts it. Indeed a good fitting name for good UI robots specialized to a task. My point was within the "huminazation" factor, dedicated hardware sequencers/software is not as powerful as far as I'm aware of. That's why I'm conscidering the sampler option. Any love for the Roland sampler? I undersatng the Korg is a bit fiddly with all that menu diving.

I like the stricht grid based electro drums I grew up with in the 80s. All that 808 banging stuff I listen to in my youth is great. But for humanization I'm just not sure a HW thing can do that Ableton's groove feature. So many possibilities.


GovernorSilver wrote:

I have found that the more complicated a setup one has onstage, the more likely something will go wrong too. It helps to be honest with yourself about how simple/complicated your music might actually be. If you just wanna play rock and roll, do you really need an Ableton Live rig with 400 scenes like Pat Metheny?


Absolutly not. The point in my case isn't about me being very superadvanced or anything, it's PURELY about being able to handle/operate more alone or with very few musicians. And still be able to present human pulse. That's the challenge.

GovernorSilver wrote:

Again, that's why my friends switched from laptops to Electribes plus a few synths. What do musicians other than the big budget, overly produced types want onstage? Something reliable, durable; and not too complicated. Stuff That Just Freaking Works. Classic examples of studio vs. stage, theorizing vs. practical, etc.


You're both right. I need to check my options in HW. I guess I'm a bit cautious about learning yet another tool as I'm far from a clever programmer.

You've given me some good options. I wonder if Korg will update the Electribe with a bigger screen and hardisk.

The Beatstep is certanily great bang for buck. Choices choices.. hihi
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:
My point was within the "huminazation" factor, dedicated hardware sequencers/software is not as powerful as far as I'm aware of. That's why I'm conscidering the sampler option. Any love for the Roland sampler? I undersatng the Korg is a bit fiddly with all that menu diving.


Pick any one feature, and I'm sure you can find an example of software being more powerful than hardware But I've always been more productive with gear that is "limited" in some way than Max For Live or other open-ended solution with limitless options. I think open-ended software only works for people who are wired the right way for it, and that's only a subset of the general community of musicians, I suspect. Another issue that complicates the software vs. hardware question is that some desired features may be accomplished faster in the software in question, and some may be done faster in the hardware. For example, there was an old discussion on Loopers Delight comparing Ableton Live and Octatrack. The Octatrack user mentioned the OT's Flex Machine; what it is, and a bit about how it works. The Ableton user admitted it would have taken him hours to implement something like it in Ableton.

The Roland SP404 has been a longtime rival to the Korg Electribe sampler. I see that Roland has release quietly released SP-404A, the very latest iteration of that venerable line, to very little fanfare from themselves or anyone else. My friends in Screen Vinyl Image used a SP-404 in tandem with their Electribe sampler and Electribe synth; plus their arsenal of analog keyboards. Interesting that they added ACB (synthesized) drum sounds to the SP-404A, as well as a TR-8 style sequencer.

For more money there's the TR-8S though one shouldn't get too excited about the "S" which stands for sampler. It's an updated TR-8 with ability to load user samplers, not Roland's attempt at replicating the full power of a sampling drum machine like the MPC 2000 series. I don't know how powerful the pattern variation features are - if they're as sophisticated as the trig conditions on Elektron sequencers or the Ableton features you mention. Haven't heard any serious complaints from TR-8S users or dramatic pronouncements about selling it.

Of course if you get the TR-8S or other TR- box, you'll want another box for bass lines or whatever, as Roland, unlike Korg, has all but abandoned the all-in-one groovebox concept that the Electribe still embraces.
GovernorSilver
GovernorSilver wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).


I actually only heard about Shelton when a local guitarist I know got one, This is his signature model - a variation on the Galaxy Flite:

https://www.facebook.com/sheltonelectric/videos/1629036663880962/

I believe he plays it with The Messthetics as well as on his own. .


The guitar is featured in a video made by Earthquaker Devices Japan.

Northward
[quote="GovernorSilver"]
GovernorSilver wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).


I actually only heard about Shelton when a local guitarist I know got one, This is his signature model - a variation on the Galaxy Flite:

https://www.facebook.com/sheltonelectric/videos/1629036663880962/

I believe he plays it with The Messthetics as well as on his own.


Really nice takes on traditional guitars. Price tag flies over my and many a head though.. I really want a Telecasterish guitar with Mastery tremolo and bridge.

BUT...
I have to say, that ridiculous relicing that's become so popular...is BEYOND lame IMO. Why not just buy a bloody new guitar. Take it on the road. Treat it like a tool. Be sloppy. Bang it about a little when you play (drunk with metal picks). Lean it against whatever wall so it falls down now and then. Don't be too careful. Use sharp belt buckles and Motorhead rings on your fingers. Lend it to your teenage AD/HD nephew and his garage band. Then,- in a few years time the natural patina is there and it'll feel just like a nice pair of worn out jeans. And nobody will call you a twat for paying extra money for someone to abuse your new guitar..

Sorry, this has relic thing has annoyed me over the years. I just had to take a stab at ridiculing the whole thing hihi hihi hihi

As easy it would be to just buy a nice jazzmaster, I cannot get on with that offset look and that huge headstock.

I am daily on the look for something nice to show up.
GovernorSilver
I've never seen Anthony play a relic'd guitar, now that you mention it. He seems to handle all his guitars with great care.

While he does not play a Tele-style Shelton, he does have a real Telecaster that he brings to country gigs. For surf rock gigs and occasional use on rockabilly gigs, he's got this odd 4-pickup guitar - some kind of 1960's design.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
I've never seen Anthony play a relic'd guitar, now that you mention it. He seems to handle all his guitars with great care.

While he does not play a Tele-style Shelton, he does have a real Telecaster that he brings to country gigs. For surf rock gigs and occasional use on rockabilly gigs, he's got this odd 4-pickup guitar - some kind of 1960's design.


I wasn’t referring to this player, but Shelton guitars whom really do embrace the whole relic thing on their website. So I guess people love that sort of stuff. I just think it’s kinda dumb. But that’s just a personal observation and hardly very interesting. Some of the ideas, suggestions and experiences that’s come up in this thread is. And I’m happy about that.

The player seems like a cool dude who explores his own style and sound. Very interesting and cool features he had implemented on his signature model.

There are some really sought after quality Telecaster-like models from the 80’s and 90’s from Yamaha, Fender, G&L, ESP, that was made for the ‘high hair’ era of rock. They get stupid high prices on eBay in quite rough condition. I really don’t get why they don’t reissue these. Especially Yamaha that have no reason to be as anal as Fender on the whole ‘everything original BS’.

Take Yamaha Line6. They could really make something special, but are so careful and conservative with their models. I really wish I bought more cool instruments back then when they were on offer. The market has become so boring over the years. Just so much more of the same IMO. And the cool boutique stuff is super expensive.
GovernorSilver
I'm not a fan of the relic thing myself, but I guess Shelton and others offer that option because people pay money for it. I have consistently heard that it is very difficult to earn a living as a small guitar maker, so I cannot fault them for offering options and services that will increase their income. Oh yeah, I still like Shelton's Tele-style guitars the best out of their lineup.

I usually end up scratching all my guitars doing something dumb and it does piss me off when it happens - but that's how it goes sometimes.

I hear ya on Yamaha. They have a history of making special products then giving up on them too early - CS-80, UD Stomp, the Tele-model Pacifica (still played by Mike Stern), etc.
TXBDan
I've been out of guitar for almost ten years. wow that flew by. The itch is back strong. I've always played a Les Paul in bands that valued volume over talent.

Back then i though Teles were the most hideous guitars imaginable. I never would have guessed i'd get tele fever a decade later! I don't know what's come over me. It's just a badass simple raw no-bullshit guitar. I'm hoping to pick up a Baja Tele tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how this thing works out.
commodorejohn
TXBDan wrote:
Back then i though Teles were the most hideous guitars imaginable. I never would have guessed i'd get tele fever a decade later! I don't know what's come over me. It's just a badass simple raw no-bullshit guitar.

I never found them interesting back when I was first getting into guitar because I always mentally associated them with country, which is not my thing (at least not the modern shit.) But once I actually tried a semi-decent Tele clone I was surprised by just how versatile and playable they can be. It really is just a simple, straightforward, solid design - one of those rare occasions where a thing is just created right from the get-go in a state of fundamental rightness.

Well, minus the lack of a truss rod wink
Northward
TXBDan wrote:
I've been out of guitar for almost ten years. wow that flew by. The itch is back strong. I've always played a Les Paul in bands that valued volume over talent.

Back then i though Teles were the most hideous guitars imaginable. I never would have guessed i'd get tele fever a decade later! I don't know what's come over me. It's just a badass simple raw no-bullshit guitar. I'm hoping to pick up a Baja Tele tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how this thing works out.


I hear ya! The first time I saw a Telecaster in RL as a boy, -I though it looked just weird.. and kinda goofy. It didn't appeal to me at all. A bit later I discovered that bands like The Clash and The Police used them and I took notice. Now after playing different styles of what I thought to be my favorites, there is just no other electric that feels so comfortably playing than a Tele. And the look has grown on me. From Country to Punk, it just works!
Not to crazy about that much loved twang, but that's cool for country. And a fuzzed up single coil bridge PU kills it.

Like you guys say; it's design was just so bang on from birth. No wonder it's shape so desired and tweaked to suit different styles.

Still on the hunt for my special one, but there is something primitivly beautiful about a typical Country blonde Telecaster with a white pickguard. I love mine (though it's old and super heavy, but that could probably be fixed).
GovernorSilver
This showed up on my social media feed:

https://www.sunfieldmusic.com/products/tuffdogtl

The official Fender Custom Shop version of the Haggard Tele sells for almost $6000 US. I don't know where this cheap clone is made (China, Korea, Indonesia or ???).
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
This showed up on my social media feed:

https://www.sunfieldmusic.com/products/tuffdogtl

The official Fender Custom Shop version of the Haggard Tele sells for almost $6000 US. I don't know where this cheap clone is made (China, Korea, Indonesia or ???).


Prices and website smells like Chinese cheapo to me. Then again I may be wrong. Been checking a few unknown brand Teles lately myself. I'd happily buy if I knew they where made at the same factory as good quiality brands in Korea. Not fussed about the big brand logo really, but I'd like decent quality instrument.

Heard of these?
https://www.revelationguitars.co.uk/

http://www.gilmourguitars.com/musicchina2016/view_catalog.html
TXBDan
I picked up the Baja Tele over the weekend. It's pretty sweet. I really like the neck and the longer scale compared to my Gibson. It's also much louder and resonant unplugged.

Amped, it is bright though. Clean, the bridge pickup need some tone knob action. The other positions are really nice. Distorted the bridge pickup has nice bite. My amp is also EL84 based which tends to be pretty bright.
felixer
commodorejohn wrote:


Well, minus the lack of a truss rod wink

and minus the second (neck) pu. and with too few screws to hold the scratchplate. yeah, leo learned a lot from his first guitar. but at least he learned. contrary to his collegaes at gibson who still think this is the 50ies, except for the workmanship ... although i do see prices come down on those les pauls.
PapaLazarou
The carbon fiber fretboard on Parkers is not to be fucked with
Chevron87
I recently got a Fender Ed O'Brien Strat and I love that guitar. It has a trem and all the usual Strat tones, humbucker in the bridge and a sustainer!
commodorejohn
So my local music store (which appears to have one of every stringed instrument native to the western world, but nary a synth in sight...welcome to northern California!) has an attached coffee shop wherein they hold local music events on the regular. One of the things they do is a monthly acoustic-guitar gathering expressly open to persons of all ages/skill levels, and I've been thinking that'd be a fun way to get out a bit more and potentially improve my sub-mediocre playing ability.

Only problem is, I don't actually own an acoustic guitar (never have liked the way standard deep-body flat-top acoustics feel under my arm, and the wide-ass necks they all seem to come with are the primary reason I never actually got into guitar as a kid.) Thusly, I've been pondering for some time now about picking up an archtop electric, provided it can kick out a passable amount of sound when unplugged.

Anyway, I dropped into (eugh) Guitar Center on a whim a week ago (my new workplace is just down the road from one) to see if there was anything quasi-affordable that might suit my purposes. I'd been eyeing the Ibanez Artcore hollowbodies, but once I actually tried one I really didn't care for the playing feel, and it was a little too quiet unplugged to pass as an acoustic. But one thing they did have hanging on the wall was a used Epiphone Emperor II, which appears to be a sorta budget-line ES-175 kind of thing with a less wicked cutaway. Pulled that down and gave it a try, and it was everything I was looking for - playable, deep enough to really be properly audible unplugged without being uncomfortable, and it sounds fantastic through an amp as well (though yikes! they're not kidding about feedback on hollowbody electrics!)

So I went home and put in for the same thing at Sweetwater so's I could pay in installments and not feel dirty about giving money to GC wink Even got a little off the price with a floor model that has but a couple minor scratches on it.



Just riddle me this, Batman: why do luthiers building hollow-body instruments always put gorgeous sexy flame maple on the back and use light-grained, unfigured stuff like spruce on the front?
khakifridge
Maple is like steel: hard and rigid. Spruce is all wobbly: perfect for getting that acoustic guitar sound to you. Not a consideration for a solid-body electric. But, yeah, I get your point. Shame to hide the pretty wood. sad
cretaceousear
Nice looking guitar there. Very like some of the Gretsch lineup.
I've wanted a semi for myself and have the same awkwardness with the size of acoustics you do.
It's too late now you've bought it, but lots of semis have a central piece of wood glueing the front and back together to minimise feedback.
Northward
Yey!
The thread lives on
Rockin' Banana!

Congratulations wiyh that new jazz guitar commodorejohn Classic looking indeed.
Ibanez had quite a lot of new guitars at NAMM2019. Their solid bodies look hideous (IMO) but definetly seem to have it's big scene in the world.
Their semi hollowbodies Artstar line I've always found interesting and gets alot of praise amoung players of differen styles. A new classic Zebrawood one makes me think of oldies cowboys with Gretches..
Too bad the cool pink one is only on their cheap line. I'd get that if it was an Artstar. I have no idea if these feedback as much with their thinner bodies.


commodorejohn
cretaceousear wrote:
I've wanted a semi for myself and have the same awkwardness with the size of acoustics you do.
It's too late now you've bought it, but lots of semis have a central piece of wood glueing the front and back together to minimise feedback.

Yeah, that's a useful feature if you want to play with relatively high gain, but I already have a nice little Tele clone for that. I wanted a full hollowbody primarily because it can also double as an acoustic (relatively, anyway - it's not as loud as a proper acoustic when unplugged, but much moreso than any of the semi-hollow designs I've heard.)
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