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Advice / input on new guitar purchase...(evolving subject)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Guitars, Basses, Amps & FX  
Author Advice / input on new guitar purchase...(evolving subject)
Northward
Hi
But I need a second electric as my short scale Telecaster doesn't cover all grounds. I do love the comfortable shape of a Telecaster as I mostly play it sat down at home and I find it lovely to compose on. So much as my expensive acoustic don't get much action acually.

Been looking for ages for and older Telecaster model with a tremelo arm (80's - 90's), but Fender annoyingly seems to have eleminated all that is not "original" (read old) to their line up... mad Looks like a bloody nostalgia trip IMO. God I hate these streamlined biz models.

So, I'd like a verstile guitar with a tremolo for slowly evolving effected textures - Shoegazy stuff that'll also work well for faster rhythm playing. Beeing shallow, Stratocasters are out of the question, so are PRS' (I hate the look of them both). Jazzmasters and Jaguars are really not my favorite cup of tea either, but they do tick many of the right boxes. However, I dislike the sound of P90s (The nice J. Mascis Jazzmaster). Don't know about Jazzmaster pickups in general as I never pick. There is a HH model too that people seem to dislike the PU's on.
Jaguars... also unknown terrain really. Les Paul are uncorfortable to me.

I've been looking at these Charvel Telecasters with a Floys Rose trems that does look hidious lol but I guess it's a versitile guitar.

So my "list of demands":
-comfortable shape
-a good functional tremolo arm
-versitile PUs for recording for Rhythm stuff like -Indie and Reggae as well as heavier effected stuff like Shoegaze/dreampop.

My favorite guitar shape is a Yamaha SG and Telecaster has really grown on me for playability. I used to hate the look as a teenager grin
I've sold off an old SG as I never used it, a bit uncomfortable. An Epiphone les paul double cut and an old Fernandes V, that I bought just for kicks. I also sold an old jazz guitar that I regret. Been thinking about an Ibanez AS, but they are trem-less

Long post, sorry, ut if you're still reading you're probably a guitar-player and may share some advice.
Oh, and I should mention that up here in the northern Europe the sec hand marked is very limited.

If you have some enlightment to what PU's will suit me, please give me examples of songs. That would be very helpful.

Thanks
forestcaver
As you have such specific requirements, what about Warmoth? Build what you want.... it’s pretty straight forward.... ish

I’ve built a Warmoth tele before....
(my website below covers my guitars, amps, pedals and eurorack)

www.batguitars.co.uk
forestcaver
Or bite the bullet, give in and just get a strat :-)
GuyaGuy
In general I would recommend a single coil or low-output humbucker pickup, which will help cut through with all of the delay, reverb, and fuzz of a shoegaze/dreampop band. That's why so many of them go for the Jazzmaster.

Depending on your budget you might want to check out the old Charvel Surfcasters. They had models with various configurations but the one with the Gotoh Strat-type tremolo would be the one to look for. May not be your aesthetic if you don't like Jazzmasters.

Lots of options really. If you like Teles and want a trem you could look at installing a Bigsby or finding a model with one on it. Fender has made them with Bigsbys over the years but they are also a pretty straightforward install. You can't do dive bombs on a Bigsby but you generally can bend +/-2 whole steps.
Northward
forestcaver wrote:
As you have such specific requirements, what about Warmoth? Build what you want.... it’s pretty straight forward.... ish

I’ve built a Warmoth tele before....
(my website below covers my guitars, amps, pedals and eurorack)

www.batguitars.co.uk


Been contemplating the Warmoth option quite a few times, but buying from Europe it'll add up. Could just as well but an original well made guitar and have it modified. Kinda hard to find one up here. I'm now considering a Jazzmaster HH for versatility. Not my dream guitar though.
Northward
GuyaGuy wrote:
In general I would recommend a single coil or low-output humbucker pickup, which will help cut through with all of the delay, reverb, and fuzz of a shoegaze/dreampop band. That's why so many of them go for the Jazzmaster.

Depending on your budget you might want to check out the old Charvel Surfcasters. They had models with various configurations but the one with the Gotoh Strat-type tremolo would be the one to look for. May not be your aesthetic if you don't like Jazzmasters.

Lots of options really. If you like Teles and want a trem you could look at installing a Bigsby or finding a model with one on it. Fender has made them with Bigsbys over the years but they are also a pretty straightforward install. You can't do dive bombs on a Bigsby but you generally can bend +/-2 whole steps.


Thanks for your input.
I DETEST the look of Bigsbys... hihi Why destroy a perfectly fine looking guitar with putting a kitchen sink on top of it..

I will check out those Charvels.
forestcaver
I’m in the UK. I bought a warmoth neck off ebay (lots on there) and used a mexican tele body with bare knuckle pickups - love it!
gentle_attack
If you buy a JMJM, you can still upgrade the pickups (or find one that someone has already done) and still be in it for less money than many of the other options.

My JMJM is not my favorite guitar, but it is by far the best 'cheap' guitar I've ever picked up. I had a ~91 Clapton Artist strat which bored the shit out of me visually, but was great to play and pretty versatile. Anyways a week after I got my JMJM I sold the Clapton for $800 and came out up $500 with a guitar I liked 99% as much.

I believe the Squier Vintage Modified Jazzmaster has different (not P90 pickups) and is a similar fit and finish to the JMJM. They were super inexpensive on Amazon for a while.
Northward
gentle_attack wrote:
If you buy a JMJM, you can still upgrade the pickups (or find one that someone has already done) and still be in it for less money than many of the other options.

My JMJM is not my favorite guitar, but it is by far the best 'cheap' guitar I've ever picked up. I had a ~91 Clapton Artist strat which bored the shit out of me visually, but was great to play and pretty versatile. Anyways a week after I got my JMJM I sold the Clapton for $800 and came out up $500 with a guitar I liked 99% as much.

I believe the Squier Vintage Modified Jazzmaster has different (not P90 pickups) and is a similar fit and finish to the JMJM. They were super inexpensive on Amazon for a while.


Good input.
I've read the praise for the Squier JM Jazzmaster. Would need to change the PUs like you say. Kind of weird that so many dislike the similar priced Vintage Squier JM though.. Like the quality would be different somehow..

Really nice clean tones of Jazzmasters.
Northward
forestcaver wrote:
I’m in the UK. I bought a warmoth neck off ebay (lots on there) and used a mexican tele body with bare knuckle pickups - love it!


People seems to really dig those Bare Knuckles.
I've been scooping both Reverb and Ebay Europe, but I think I'm a bit late to the party on those amazing Japanese Teles and Yamaha Teles (with trems)

Do you know of Jenson of London? Seen some really nice looking Teles that they (he) make. Only P90s though..

I'm thinking of buying a cheapo from Thomann and go jonny rotten on it, but get the gear right hihi
forestcaver
No - dont know London well. Bare Knuckle are the best pickups I own!
With regard the Japanese teles - I have two Squier bullets (from the early/mid-80s that are just amazing for their quality - they stand up to American strat in build quality and sound! One owned by me from new and one that a friend had from new...
GuyaGuy
[quote="Northward"]
GuyaGuy wrote:


Thanks for your input.
I DETEST the look of Bigsbys... hihi Why destroy a perfectly fine looking guitar with putting a kitchen sink on top of it..

I will check out those Charvels.

I LOVE the look of Bigsbys hihi

I also love how they feel and have one on both of my main guitars.

I just remembered Reverend has a Tele with a Strat trem:
https://www.reverendguitars.com/guitars/eastsider-s
Northward
[quote="GuyaGuy"]
Northward wrote:
GuyaGuy wrote:


Thanks for your input.
I DETEST the look of Bigsbys... hihi Why destroy a perfectly fine looking guitar with putting a kitchen sink on top of it..

I will check out those Charvels.

I LOVE the look of Bigsbys hihi

I also love how they feel and have one on both of my main guitars.

I just remembered Reverend has a Tele with a Strat trem:
https://www.reverendguitars.com/guitars/eastsider-s


Different strokes... hihi

I know of that Reverend Tele. It looks nice. But I'm not into that Strat PUs config, besides they're very expensive.

Godin has a Telish guitar that tick my boxes, but it's kinda weird looking. Like an unfinished strat.
polyroy
If you can find a Jazzmaster with a more open routing in the body, your pickup choices can be a lot more flexible. I'm sure you can find various pick guards for the Jazzmaster on eBay for all types of pickup combos.

Alternatively, look at Jackson soloists. Neck is lush, can cover a surprising amount of ground and aren't just a 'shredder' guitar. Get a railed hum bucker in the neck and add a switch to split it, so you have the best of both worlds for the clean stuff.

Another option is to try one of these on your tele - https://super-vee.com/products/tremolo-systems/maverick/
lumena
Perhaps take a look at Eastwood Guitars. Lots of Mosrite reissues.
Lots of choices with unusual trems.

I would suggest a short scale jaguar... the Johnny Marr has bareknucklepickups as stock and used they are very reasonable.

Always such a hard choice with new guitars. Maybe just float around from shop to shop with a fuzz pedal you like in your bag and see what works. By keeping the pedal constant you can learn alot about various pickups fast. Besides lots of shops can be a bit intimidating a good fuzz is like having sunglasses on you can make a statement about needing space to try things.

Best fuzz suggestion
JPTR FX Superweirdo or Adventure Audio Demogorgon both one box guitar empowerments. Pull it out drop on floor and bingo you are the party.
felixer
seems you need a custom built. lot of guitarbuilders around. and often not that expensive. there are also firm's selling 'kits' that can be configured flexibly.
for a tremolo i like the dusenberg les trem. but nor suitable for yer standard tele. (although i made some duo-sonics fit those. but you need a new bridge (gibson style) and tilt the neck a bit. but all of that is good for the sound too).
so don't get tied up in factory builds. lot's can be changed and it might even work out cheaper then some 'name-make'.
new pickups are almost a standard thing. and better machineheads are often in order too.
phase ghost
forestcaver wrote:
As you have such specific requirements, what about Warmoth? Build what you want.... it’s pretty straight forward.... ish

I’ve built a Warmoth tele before....
(my website below covers my guitars, amps, pedals and eurorack)

www.batguitars.co.uk


Warmoth makes sense to me.
Northward
lumena wrote:
Perhaps take a look at Eastwood Guitars. Lots of Mosrite reissues.
Lots of choices with unusual trems.

I would suggest a short scale jaguar... the Johnny Marr has bareknucklepickups as stock and used they are very reasonable.

Always such a hard choice with new guitars. Maybe just float around from shop to shop with a fuzz pedal you like in your bag and see what works. By keeping the pedal constant you can learn alot about various pickups fast. Besides lots of shops can be a bit intimidating a good fuzz is like having sunglasses on you can make a statement about needing space to try things.

Best fuzz suggestion
JPTR FX Superweirdo or Adventure Audio Demogorgon both one box guitar empowerments. Pull it out drop on floor and bingo you are the party.


Been checking out the Eastwood stuff for quite some time. But reports from users are that the quality is sub par. I don't know. Do you own one?

Good advice for testing! Will def check out your fuzz advice. Good stuff.

The Jaguar seems very versitile and I'd sure like that trem. But I've got a cool old copy short scale jaguar Telecaster now, and I find it hard to work those upper narrow frets when I'm doing barre chords. Great forrocking open chords.

I'm now more open to just get a Jazzmaster for the playability and long neck. But I really didn't want to go there. I don't see many options if you want a long tremolo arm on a comfortable guitar.

Is it hard to mount a jazzmaster on a tele?https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd= &cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwizz8HUzcnbAhXB3SwKHazUCt0QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=h ttps%3A%2F%2Fguitar.com%2Fmeet-fenders-jazzmaster-and-telecaster-hybri d%2F&psig=AOvVaw27gQNwcav8H1IZxX2n7z8a&ust=1528737638663038
felixer
if you are looking for a shortscale: the squire duosonic is a decent basis. can be found s/h for cheap. pickups and tuners aren't any good but that can be changed. my client has three of'm now. one with a dusenberg trem. one that was stripped completely and oiled in a dark purple (the client is a girl hihi ). all have humbuckers and improved electronics. was a bit of work but still much cheaper then any other option. she has some backproblems so a lightweight guitar was a must. and she likes a warm sound so humbuckers. mission accomplished ... player happy. and i'm happy too cool
Sinamsis
I started a thread a while ago after being inspired by my first Warmoth build. I will never buy another stock high end guitar again. It was not only a ton of fun building my dream guitar, but it's really awesome having it customized. I went with a JM body, Bare Knuckle Nail Bombs, had them custom wired so they can be coil tapped, or run as straight humbuckers. Locking tuners. Mastery bridge. I can't recommend that bridge/tremolo system enough. It feels so great to play and sounds wonderful. In the end I think I spent $1500-1600 on it, but it was the best money I've ever spent on a guitar. It's one of my go tos. I later got a partscaster JM in a trade, and I swapped out the pickguard for another custom job using Novak pickups with the knobs being volume controls and the roller wheels being tone controls for each pick up. And then the switch puts the pickups in serial. Something like that. It's awesome. Otherwise I have a reissue Starcaster that I had Lindy Fralin put in his wide range humbuckers in, I dropped in a Bigsby and locking tuners and it sounds wonderful. Next guitar I want to build is a JM body with tele style pickups and a start neck with the bigger head stock. Looking at the TV Jones T Armond pickups for that. Ha but it'll be a while.

I tend to record a lot of post rock sort of stuff, and those three guitars really do it for me. I'm sure you can find a way to build something that will fit your needs. Warmoth can get pricey here, so I can imagine shipping it out of the USA can be even worse. Is there not an equivalent in the EU?

Btw the Duesenberg Les Trem is a great tremolo option for those who don't like the bulkier bigsby











felixer
Sinamsis wrote:


Btw the Duesenberg Les Trem is a great tremolo option for those who don't like the bulkier bigsby

yes it is. but not for divebombing/floyd rose style playing. it's more in the vein of those bigsby's. but more compact and very well built. but they do make larger ones looking like a bigsby (but improved).
and his old compagny rockinger http://rockinger.com/index.php/de has all sorts of guitarparts. also necks&bodies. warmoth is far too expensive esp in europe with the shipping and the taxes (and i've seen not-so-good stuff from them too. maybe they ship that abroad as the chance of returns is small). and there is no need. all you need you can get in europe easily.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
I started a thread a while ago after being inspired by my first Warmoth build. I will never buy another stock high end guitar again. It was not only a ton of fun building my dream guitar, but it's really awesome having it customized. I went with a JM body, Bare Knuckle Nail Bombs, had them custom wired so they can be coil tapped, or run as straight humbuckers. Locking tuners. Mastery bridge. I can't recommend that bridge/tremolo system enough. It feels so great to play and sounds wonderful. In the end I think I spent $1500-1600 on it, but it was the best money I've ever spent on a guitar. It's one of my go tos. I later got a partscaster JM in a trade, and I swapped out the pickguard for another custom job using Novak pickups with the knobs being volume controls and the roller wheels being tone controls for each pick up. And then the switch puts the pickups in serial. Something like that. It's awesome. Otherwise I have a reissue Starcaster that I had Lindy Fralin put in his wide range humbuckers in, I dropped in a Bigsby and locking tuners and it sounds wonderful. Next guitar I want to build is a JM body with tele style pickups and a start neck with the bigger head stock. Looking at the TV Jones T Armond pickups for that. Ha but it'll be a while.

I tend to record a lot of post rock sort of stuff, and those three guitars really do it for me. I'm sure you can find a way to build something that will fit your needs. Warmoth can get pricey here, so I can imagine shipping it out of the USA can be even worse. Is there not an equivalent in the EU?

Btw the Duesenberg Les Trem is a great tremolo option for those who don't like the bulkier bigsby













Great line up you have here!
I'm glad to read your guitar enthusiasm Mr. Green
I don't want to hord guitars, but I think it will be a couple more. I'm not a good guitar player so I'm just not going there.. hehe

I'm set on that JM tremolo. Just visited Warmoth and they make you go through the hoops without really giving you all the options. E.g. try sticking a JM tremolo on a Tele body.. It's not an option. Colours are also restricted. I was put off. Besides, like you say it'll add up for us Europeans. I see options in the UK, but not like Warmoth.

I'm thinking now that I'll get a used J. Mascis JM and realy try it out. That will be the most economical I think. They are so poplular that I see no trouble just selling it if I don't like it.

Another telecaster I will get for sure. But I'll wait untill the right one comes along. Or get a cheapo and make a project out of it. I suspect that Tremolo an PUPs will cost more than the guitars though... hihi
Northward
New to Rockinger..

Why is this tremolo so cheap compared to the others?

Having never played these types of tremolos, how do they compare to e.g a strat type tremolo like a Wilkingson or a Schaller?

Those Bigsbys and Floyd Roses are so aesthetically challenged that I don't want them in the house lol
Sinamsis
Northward
Dude, that bottom guitar I showed (Starcaster) is made in China. I got it second hand for $450. I easily spent that on the pickups. Add on the Bigsby, roller bridge and tuners and I probably spent close to twice what I paid for the guitar on upgrades. But it was well worth it. Particularly the pickups. Honestly, I think these guitars made in various parts of Asia have pretty decent bones. I think they take short cuts on specific things like electronics/pickups and hardware, and that's an easy (though some times costly) upgrade that you can do with time.

I try not to be a collector either. But I've realized that I will never have one guitar that fits everything. I used to have a Rickenbacker 360 that I tried to make fit every style. I just couldn't do it. It really turned me off of playing guitar for a while. Then I reworked my entire guitar set up. From my guitar, to amp to pedalboard. I'm really proud of the stuff I've been recording lately. It's exactly the sound that I've been after. But it's taken time to get there. For me, I think the bare minimum is having a humbucker guitar and single coil one. If I had to pick hollow body vs solid body, I'd go solid. Everything else is icing on the cake. It's nice to have a few different "colors" to paint with.

I think the J Mascis JM will be great. You should be able to find a second hand one pretty cheap. Then with time you can mode the hell out of it. Do yourself a favor and check out Mastery bridges. They're expensive. But they make such a difference. I have one on both my JMs and they feel so wonderful. And it makes dialing in the action so easy. I'd also look at Rothstein Guitars for wiring info. He does sell prewired harnesses and stuff, which may be cost prohibitive to ship to the EU, I don't know. But he also sells schematics I believe. He has some really cool wiring mods. Also for teles, I believe. I think Novak makes an awesome JM pickup. My red JM had hand spun pickups from a US based winder that goes by Sunday Pickups. He has a Reverb store. They are very cheap and sound pretty darn good. The one thing to be careful with is that not all JM pick guards are the same. So if you do buy a prewired pickguard, or replace the stock one, make sure it's the right one.

And in terms of Teles I would say check out the 72 Tele Deluxe. They have a reissue out now. I've never played an original, but they used the Fender wide range humbucker which is a very interesting pickup design meant to capture some of the girth of humbuckers while not losing the Tele twang. The reissue pickups are just shit humbuckers (at least they were in my Starcaster), but they are the right size (these wide range humbuckers are much larger than normal humbuckers) and there are a handful of folks making clones of or pickups inspired by this unique design. The originals used an alloy of copper, nickel and iron that is difficult to come across now, so not all of these derivative pickups use this alloy. I'm not sure what that means. But I will say, I bought mine from Lindy Fralin. I'm lucky enough to live in Richmond, where his shop is. He let me come in, play his tele, shoot the shit with him a bit. He even installed them for me. They sound amazing. And I do not think he uses the CuNiFe alloy that the originals did. But they're great pickups.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
Northward
Dude, that bottom guitar I showed (Starcaster) is made in China. I got it second hand for $450. I easily spent that on the pickups. Add on the Bigsby, roller bridge and tuners and I probably spent close to twice what I paid for the guitar on upgrades. But it was well worth it. Particularly the pickups. Honestly, I think these guitars made in various parts of Asia have pretty decent bones. I think they take short cuts on specific things like electronics/pickups and hardware, and that's an easy (though some times costly) upgrade that you can do with time.

I try not to be a collector either. But I've realized that I will never have one guitar that fits everything. I used to have a Rickenbacker 360 that I tried to make fit every style. I just couldn't do it. It really turned me off of playing guitar for a while. Then I reworked my entire guitar set up. From my guitar, to amp to pedalboard. I'm really proud of the stuff I've been recording lately. It's exactly the sound that I've been after. But it's taken time to get there. For me, I think the bare minimum is having a humbucker guitar and single coil one. If I had to pick hollow body vs solid body, I'd go solid. Everything else is icing on the cake. It's nice to have a few different "colors" to paint with.

I think the J Mascis JM will be great. You should be able to find a second hand one pretty cheap. Then with time you can mode the hell out of it. Do yourself a favor and check out Mastery bridges. They're expensive. But they make such a difference. I have one on both my JMs and they feel so wonderful. And it makes dialing in the action so easy. I'd also look at Rothstein Guitars for wiring info. He does sell prewired harnesses and stuff, which may be cost prohibitive to ship to the EU, I don't know. But he also sells schematics I believe. He has some really cool wiring mods. Also for teles, I believe. I think Novak makes an awesome JM pickup. My red JM had hand spun pickups from a US based winder that goes by Sunday Pickups. He has a Reverb store. They are very cheap and sound pretty darn good. The one thing to be careful with is that not all JM pick guards are the same. So if you do buy a prewired pickguard, or replace the stock one, make sure it's the right one.

And in terms of Teles I would say check out the 72 Tele Deluxe. They have a reissue out now. I've never played an original, but they used the Fender wide range humbucker which is a very interesting pickup design meant to capture some of the girth of humbuckers while not losing the Tele twang. The reissue pickups are just shit humbuckers (at least they were in my Starcaster), but they are the right size (these wide range humbuckers are much larger than normal humbuckers) and there are a handful of folks making clones of or pickups inspired by this unique design. The originals used an alloy of copper, nickel and iron that is difficult to come across now, so not all of these derivative pickups use this alloy. I'm not sure what that means. But I will say, I bought mine from Lindy Fralin. I'm lucky enough to live in Richmond, where his shop is. He let me come in, play his tele, shoot the shit with him a bit. He even installed them for me. They sound amazing. And I do not think he uses the CuNiFe alloy that the originals did. But they're great pickups.


,,,Shot in the dark, man, but I beleive I've found the biggest NIN fans og Muffwiggler.. hihi

Inspiering reading your posts. Habe I lived in the US I would have costumize the shit out of my guitras. I Seriously dislike most of the factory ranges out now. Expect some super expensive stuff like Dreaimel and Fano. Fenders just annoy me.

Been scooping out a Tele vith a SH configurtation. My conclustion is that I'm not sold on the Wide range PU and would like real sweet soundig bridge rhythm PUs like the Bare Knockles Mule. Cover alot of grounds.

Having a Jagauar tremolo on that Tele would be cool.
There was these late 90s Teles with Strat style trems. Not how the'll work for showgazing... For one the arm gets short.

NB. Dude....I really has a phobia for rodents.. Seriouslly, your avatar freakes mye out man! It's like a childs nightbare...
Sinamsis
Northward
Bare Knuckles are very nice pickups. I had looked at the Mules when I got mine. There so many options out there, it's hard to decided. I used to have a SH style tele, I think it was a Custom reissue. It sounded really nice. The one thing I noticed is the outputs of the humbucker and single coil weren't matched. I guess that's inherent in the design. But I have to wonder if there isn't something that can be done about it.

I'm not sure why you say that about NIN, but ha yes, I'm a big fan. And the avatar is the coke badger from It's All Gone Pete Tong. Great movie haha.

Sounds like you really want a hybrid of a Tele and JM or Jaguar. You can definitely get those made. You might try to find a local luthier. You could probably figure out how to finish it yourself. That is going to be my next project guitar. JM body with tele style electronics.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
Northward
Bare Knuckles are very nice pickups. I had looked at the Mules when I got mine. There so many options out there, it's hard to decided. I used to have a SH style tele, I think it was a Custom reissue. It sounded really nice. The one thing I noticed is the outputs of the humbucker and single coil weren't matched. I guess that's inherent in the design. But I have to wonder if there isn't something that can be done about it.

I'm not sure why you say that about NIN, but ha yes, I'm a big fan. And the avatar is the coke badger from It's All Gone Pete Tong. Great movie haha.

Sounds like you really want a hybrid of a Tele and JM or Jaguar. You can definitely get those made. You might try to find a local luthier. You could probably figure out how to finish it yourself. That is going to be my next project guitar. JM body with tele style electronics.


Yeah I saw that film. Funny stuff.
Well I know what I like the look of and to a certain degree the sound of. But this forum thread to get wiser on this stuff. I just may end up with a guitar I'd never thought I'd get, but is golden.

It's that getting it all together in bodyshape I like. I guiess swopping pickups on the J. Mascis gives quite a few options. Like the Humbuckers from the Creamery. That '13 Custom looked intruiging. No success in finding a clean demo of many of their pickups though.
felixer
Northward wrote:
New to Rockinger..

Why is this tremolo so cheap compared to the others?
Having never played these types of tremolos, how do they compare to e.g a strat type tremolo like a Wilkingson or a Schaller?

they are cheap for a reason. the originals were terrible. don't know about these newer ones (prob better) but the design is lousy: hardly any tension on the bridge (which means a bad sound and strings flying out of the grooves if you play harder), made of sheetmetal (which means very little mass=no sustain). you would be much better off with a strat trem. or the düsenberg les trem. they are fairly small and very well built.
here's some pics of the duosonics i modded for this girl:

importent for any trem is a roller brigde. and either a roller nut of one of these graphtech selflubricating nuts as used here. also get stringguides with rollers (the original fender design is a disaster). all those things will make sure it stays in tune much better:

moved the output jack to the side so there is room for one more control. singlecoil switches can go anywhere. i also streamlined the neck/body connection. much easier to play high on the neck:

from being a pos it is now a quite useful guitar. with just a bit of work and a little money. (the pickups being the most expensive part: she wanted seymore duncans. a jazz at the neck and a jeff beck at the bridge). and obviously you can keep the original laquer/colour. that's quite a bit of dirty work getting that old laquer off (thick polysomething)
Northward
felixer wrote:
Northward wrote:
New to Rockinger..

Why is this tremolo so cheap compared to the others?
Having never played these types of tremolos, how do they compare to e.g a strat type tremolo like a Wilkingson or a Schaller?

they are cheap for a reason. the originals were terrible. don't know about these newer ones (prob better) but the design is lousy: hardly any tension on the bridge (which means a bad sound and strings flying out of the grooves if you play harder), made of sheetmetal (which means very little mass=no sustain). you would be much better off with a strat trem. or the düsenberg les trem. they are fairly small and very well built.
here's some pics of the duosonics i modded for this girl:

importent for any trem is a roller brigde. and either a roller nut of one of these graphtech selflubricating nuts as used here. also get stringguides with rollers (the original fender design is a disaster). all those things will make sure it stays in tune much better:

moved the output jack to the side so there is room for one more control. singlecoil switches can go anywhere. i also streamlined the neck/body connection. much easier to play high on the neck:

from being a pos it is now a quite useful guitar. with just a bit of work and a little money. (the pickups being the most expensive part: she wanted seymore duncans. a jazz at the neck and a jeff beck at the bridge). and obviously you can keep the original laquer/colour. that's quite a bit of dirty work getting that old laquer off (thick polysomething)


Nice work. I'd like to see her play it.
Any links to sounds examples of PUPs?

Concerning the tremolo system. This is probably one of the most divided and opinionated issue you'd hear from guitarists. One one side (let's call these The Divebombers hihi :-) -JM trems are utterly crap and won't hold tuning for shit. In the other camp (Lets call them the Bearded Coffie&Jazz aficionados' ), say they are perfection as log as set up right.
Stranger Things...

My impression of the Les Trem is that people are generally happy with them. But that we're talking polite vibrato action here, and not the sort of thing you'd like for working it constant and real good like e.g. Shoegaze stuff. And I don't mean just the action, but the way to hold it in your hand while strumming, (what I'd like) not just pick it up now and then.
forestcaver
Have you tried a *good* strat? I know you dont like the look, but it’s worth trying a really good one. I just have a feeling that you keep describing a strat :-) I held off getting one for years for exactly the same reason (looks, too popular, too corny) but ended up trying the right one and it fit me perfectly. I also love shoegazy stuff - playing and listening..... (I also have a fair few other guitars but usually play the strat or tele....) Sorry if it’s irritating to suggest it !
Northward
forestcaver wrote:
Have you tried a *good* strat? I know you dont like the look, but it’s worth trying a really good one. I just have a feeling that you keep describing a strat :-) I held off getting one for years for exactly the same reason (looks, too popular, too corny) but ended up trying the right one and it fit me perfectly. I also love shoegazy stuff - playing and listening..... (I also have a fair few other guitars but usually play the strat or tele....) Sorry if it’s irritating to suggest it !


No worries mate..
Dammit! I keep getting this advice. I guess Mr. Gilmour tried a few guitars before deciding..

But tell me, is the Strat trem good for keeping in your hand while strumming - like through a whole song. You don't see much of that on stage with Strats. I suspect they come out in the studio, behind closed doors. Or wait, I think maybe I read somewher3e that Strats are so unhip they actually are hipster 1-0-1 now... hihi hihi hihi

I really can't stand them though. Corny as you said -and proliferated AF.
But I suspect your right. I did play a Strat years ago. Very comfortable guitar.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
Northward
Bare Knuckles are very nice pickups. I had looked at the Mules when I got mine. There so many options out there, it's hard to decided. I used to have a SH style tele, I think it was a Custom reissue. It sounded really nice. The one thing I noticed is the outputs of the humbucker and single coil weren't matched. I guess that's inherent in the design. But I have to wonder if there isn't something that can be done about it.

I'm not sure why you say that about NIN, but ha yes, I'm a big fan. And the avatar is the coke badger from It's All Gone Pete Tong. Great movie haha.

Sounds like you really want a hybrid of a Tele and JM or Jaguar. You can definitely get those made. You might try to find a local luthier. You could probably figure out how to finish it yourself. That is going to be my next project guitar. JM body with tele style electronics.


I'd really like a custom project. But I'm a bit worried I'll fuck it up myself. Luthiers where I live are like one dude, and he's so expensive I might as well get a top Fender. Tell me: is it hard to set up a Jaguar tremolo DIY? I have a carpender in the family that can do the cavity, but I really don't know about getting it in good working order..

And yeah, I get NIN wibes from your choice of gear
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:

But tell me, is the Strat trem good for keeping in your hand while strumming - like through a whole song. You don't see much of that on stage with Strats. I suspect they come out in the studio, behind closed doors. Or wait, I think maybe I read somewher3e that Strats are so unhip they actually are hipster 1-0-1 now... hihi hihi hihi

I really can't stand them though. Corny as you said -and proliferated AF.
But I suspect your right. I did play a Strat years ago. Very comfortable guitar.


Jazzmasters and Jaguars are way higher up the hipster scale than Strats. wink Supposedly the Mastery bridge is the way to go if you purse the Jazzmaster path.

Jeff Beck is one of the very few Strat players who actually holds the tremolo bar in his hand while strumming and playing in general. But I see many more Strat players not use the trem bar at all - it's not even screwed into the bridge.
Sinamsis
Northward
I installed the tremolo on my black JM. Granted the cavity was cut. I don’t recall if the holes were predrilled or if I drilled them. I know I had to drill some holes and it was very easy. Otherwise you literally just drop the tremolo in and screw it in. The bridge can be the tricky part. Depending on what bridge you choose. Mastery was pretty easy. If you already have the thimble type things that the bridge post sit in, you can basically drop the bridge in. My black JM did not have anything (I got the body from Warmoth). I had someone install it for me so I wouldn’t screw it up. You need to drill a path for the grounding wire to go to the bridge. A preassembled guitar will already have this in place.

Otherwise the Mastery bridge allows you to individually raise or lower each string to really dial in the action when you set it up. It was designed for Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth I believe, with one of the goals being to prevent the strings from hoping out of their saddles.
forestcaver
Northward wrote:
forestcaver wrote:
Have you tried a *good* strat? I know you dont like the look, but it’s worth trying a really good one. I just have a feeling that you keep describing a strat :-) I held off getting one for years for exactly the same reason (looks, too popular, too corny) but ended up trying the right one and it fit me perfectly. I also love shoegazy stuff - playing and listening..... (I also have a fair few other guitars but usually play the strat or tele....) Sorry if it’s irritating to suggest it !


But tell me, is the Strat trem good for keeping in your hand while strumming - like through a whole song. You don't see much of that on stage with Strats. I suspect they come out in the studio, behind closed doors. Or wait, I think maybe I read somewher3e that Strats are so unhip they actually are hipster 1-0-1 now... hihi hihi hihi

I really can't stand them though. Corny as you said -and proliferated AF.
But I suspect your right. I did play a Strat years ago. Very comfortable guitar.


I find it ok holding the trem whilst strumming....

I hated them when I started playing but really appreciate it now - it’s so versatile. For me, they’ll never be cool in general, but I really do love *mine*!

Good luck with the search! (I ended up building my LP clone from scratch to get exactly what I wanted though!) I only need one more guitar in my life - an es335 and then I am done! Not bought a guitar now in nearly 10 years so it may actually be true!
sduck
I'm not going to comment on the hipness/fashionability aspects of guitars in general.

But you might find some of the info in this thread useful/interesting - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185125

You'll find my post on the first page - I think you'd find my green guitar to be really useful.

Oh, and on the trem thing - after owning an early PRS guitar for a brief time in the 80's, I've been locked into the wilkinson tremelo bridge, with a smooth graph tech nut and locking tuners - stays in tune no matter which style of tremelo use you subject it to, and properly set up is a thing of beauty.
commodorejohn
It is kinda funny the extent to which appearances matter on guitars when there's no clear reason why they should. My theory is that, because it's something you wear, it feels like clothing to the part of the brain that makes the "okay, do I feel like a dope in this?" assessments.
felixer
Northward wrote:


Nice work. I'd like to see her play it.
Any links to sounds examples of PUPs?

Concerning the tremolo system. This is probably one of the most divided and opinionated issue you'd hear from guitarists. One one side (let's call these The Divebombers hihi :-) -JM trems are utterly crap and won't hold tuning for shit. In the other camp (Lets call them the Bearded Coffie&Jazz aficionados' ), say they are perfection as log as set up right.
Stranger Things...

My impression of the Les Trem is that people are generally happy with them. But that we're talking polite vibrato action here, and not the sort of thing you'd like for working it constant and real good like e.g. Shoegaze stuff. And I don't mean just the action, but the way to hold it in your hand while strumming, (what I'd like) not just pick it up now and then.

well, it's only partly the vibrato as such. as i explained you need locking tuners and basically everything on rollers. even my cheapo squire strat and a line6 (feels very much like a squire, prob the same factory somewhere in china) i got stay very well in tune with those mods. i can see the point in having different metals for the strat vibrato block and i'm sure it would make a subtle difference in the tone, but for tuning it will not help. all those other small things will ...
and yeah, you would like to see this pretty redhead play that purple guitar. but don't get any ideas: she's a lesbian. too bad for the rest of us. regularly takes her girlfriend along. prob to remind me. but the funny thing is: she is one of the few people i can have watching over my shoulder while i work. just a really nice person ... she always brings nice thee along too.
Northward
Thank you all for contributing to this thread. I'd still torn beteween options. Mostly cause the guitars that I like factory made doesn't come with the parts I want. Like many of you have mentioned I should had one made for me.. meanwhile I'll still check out my options.

The first time I saw this guitar from the Eastwood mailing, I thought it looked kinda goofy...like a horny Dolphin or something hihi
But it does have stuff I'd like and looks quite unique. It's kind of expensive coming from Eastwood, and that trem doesn't look like quality. Still a fun looking guitar. I tried layering on top of a Jazzmaster in Photoshop. It has the contours, but is still very much it own design. I'd love to have it in pink for playing punk.. hihi
Sinamsis
Nice. It's a very handsome guitar. Ha, I'm a maple fretboard guy myself. But looks nice.

And I'll say it again... if you find something close to what you want and can get it on the cheap I think that's your best bet. You can slowly upgrade it as money allows. You don't need to spend $2k to get a great guitar. Also, slowly changing out the different pieces will teach you a lot about what each part of a guitar is responsible for and how it contributes to the over all feel, function and sound of the guitar. Stuff you take for granted. Like the nut. It never even crossed my mind until I had to make a choice when I built my Warmoth. And then as other people have mentioned, when you get into heavy tremolo use it can be important. Anyways, whatever you go with I'm sure you'll learn a lot and it'll be a great experience. For me, doing this research and overthinking it is half the fun! Haha.
commodorejohn
Well that's just gorram adorable.

Though I much prefer finishes that enhance the grain rather than cover it up.
Northward
felixer wrote:
Northward wrote:


Nice work. I'd like to see her play it.
Any links to sounds examples of PUPs?

Concerning the tremolo system. This is probably one of the most divided and opinionated issue you'd hear from guitarists. One one side (let's call these The Divebombers hihi :-) -JM trems are utterly crap and won't hold tuning for shit. In the other camp (Lets call them the Bearded Coffie&Jazz aficionados' ), say they are perfection as log as set up right.
Stranger Things...

My impression of the Les Trem is that people are generally happy with them. But that we're talking polite vibrato action here, and not the sort of thing you'd like for working it constant and real good like e.g. Shoegaze stuff. And I don't mean just the action, but the way to hold it in your hand while strumming, (what I'd like) not just pick it up now and then.

well, it's only partly the vibrato as such. as i explained you need locking tuners and basically everything on rollers. even my cheapo squire strat and a line6 (feels very much like a squire, prob the same factory somewhere in china) i got stay very well in tune with those mods. i can see the point in having different metals for the strat vibrato block and i'm sure it would make a subtle difference in the tone, but for tuning it will not help. all those other small things will ...
and yeah, you would like to see this pretty redhead play that purple guitar. but don't get any ideas: she's a lesbian. too bad for the rest of us. regularly takes her girlfriend along. prob to remind me. but the funny thing is: she is one of the few people i can have watching over my shoulder while i work. just a really nice person ... she always brings nice thee along too.


Hot Mustang playing redhead lespo you say..ooh..that’s cruel man hahaa
And I who really dig those Céltic beauties. I’d love a picture at least. I bet she looks real good with her guitar.
Northward
commodorejohn wrote:
It is kinda funny the extent to which appearances matter on guitars when there's no clear reason why they should. My theory is that, because it's something you wear, it feels like clothing to the part of the brain that makes the "okay, do I feel like a dope in this?" assessments.


These are my thoughts exactly!

I believe guitars reflect our taste and personality as much as clothes, glasses or cars. It shouldnt matter but it does.

It's also a question of wanting to pick it up as often as possible, like a favourite toy you wanna play with again and again. My blonde country lookin Telecaster looks good imo. and I like to pick it up most days. So it makes sense that way too. I’m sure an Ibanez RG is great to play and you could play Prince or Jazz on it, but I would feel a bit awkward with those pointy horns hihi
Standup
Read part of this earlier then came back. Personally, I love gretsch inspired pickups. Lots of depth, great for shoegazy stuff.

So look for a Squier cabronita modified something or other, it would have to be used cuz they don’t make them now.

Oh, right, you don’t like Bigsby tremolos. I think they’re fun.

So as an alternate, go play some reverend guitars. I spent an hour or so playing a “double agent” with one single coil one humbucker, but actually bought a reverend with two gretsch style pickups, but then returned it when it occurred to me I didn’t actually have the money at that time.

Some reverends have a Wilkinson trem, which avoids the Bigsby problem.

squier cabronita and reverend guitars in general Might be worth checking out.
Northward
Standup wrote:
Read part of this earlier then came back. Personally, I love gretsch inspired pickups. Lots of depth, great for shoegazy stuff.

So look for a Squier cabronita modified something or other, it would have to be used cuz they don’t make them now.

Oh, right, you don’t like Bigsby tremolos. I think they’re fun.

So as an alternate, go play some reverend guitars. I spent an hour or so playing a “double agent” with one single coil one humbucker, but actually bought a reverend with two gretsch style pickups, but then returned it when it occurred to me I didn’t actually have the money at that time.

Some reverends have a Wilkinson trem, which avoids the Bigsby problem.

squier cabronita and reverend guitars in general Might be worth checking out.


Actually I’ve been attracted to Cabronitas since Fender Customer shop released them. Cool looking guitar and I was real close to buying a new Squire Cabronita in Seafoam green.. but I changed my mind cause I was unsure about the jangley sounds from the Filterthrons. Though they be around for years.. I may get a cheap Cabronita copy from Thomann. Looks like a fun project to be my first. It gets good reviews. Pickups sounds great distorted. As good as a Squier I’m sure, if you don’t get a Monday model. (poor quality control and many returns). Still dead cheap.

Reverends are rare over here and expensive. They do a nice Telecaster with Wilkingson trem.
felixer
Northward wrote:

Hot Mustang playing redhead lespo you say..ooh..that’s cruel man hahaa
And I who really dig those Céltic beauties. I’d love a picture at least. I bet she looks real good with her guitar.

cruel ... yes! but i have no pics of her. only the guitars. she used to be in this band that folded: 'roter rabe' (red raven). but i think the website is gone too. here's some pics of another one i did:


that's a seymore duncan lipstick. sounds good. not quite as thin as i expected. def fatter then a standard strat. and pretty noisefree (for a singlecoil that is).
here you can see how i moved the jacksocket to the side to make more room for controls:

all this just goes to show how much you can make a guitar 'your own'. and esp with fenders the wood has never been very important, so getting a cheapo and pimp it is certainly a good option. as long as you like the neckshape. roller stringtrees and locking tuners as well (not sperzel but cheaper chinese copies that work just fine. and btw sperzel was not the guy who invented this: i've seen a guitar in a museum that was over 100 years old that had exactly that system):
commodorejohn
Aw damn but that copper pickguard is sexy.
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:


Reverends are rare over here and expensive. They do a nice Telecaster with Wilkingson trem.


Yeah, the Reverend Pete Anderson Eastsider looks nice. I only tried his other signature model - the hollowbody with a Bigsby - sounds and plays great. My favorite trem though is the Les Trem that came with my Club King, which is on semi-permanent loan to my bandmate - nice and smooth for surfy vibrato,

This thread is reminding me that the Jazzmaster is the dominant choice of guitar for shoegaze. When I saw Slowdive play a few years ago, though, one guitarist played a Strat and the other played a 335-like semihollow. Forgot what Rachel played, the few times she did pick up a guitar.
felixer
commodorejohn wrote:
Aw damn but that copper pickguard is sexy.

actually it's anodized aluminium. and looks more like gold. you can get that from various sources. although it was standard on that duosonic. copper would not be so good to the touch. but then neither is alu.

and for shoegaze stuff it's comparable to punk/new wave: any guitar that wasn't 'hip' in those days and you could get a good deal on was suitable. i'm sure they didn't go out of their way to get some specific model. all those genre's are fairly 'anti-muso'. coming in with a strat or les paul would be suspicious. like you are a player and actually know what you're doing, musically hihi
Sinamsis
I think we should probably try to avoid objectifying women.

But back to topic. If you like the Gretsch style pickups, I can't recommend TV Jones enough. I think they're using his classics on some of their higher end models. I have an orange 5422 that felt nice to play, but just sounded really muddy. Switching out the stock pickups to TV Jones Classics made all the difference in the world. It sounds fantastics. I didn't really mention it I guess because to me, it didn't seem like the ideal shoe gaze guitar. But it's a very nice, mellow sound.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
I think we should probably try to avoid objectifying women.


Yeah, you are right of course. I have a bit of a poor filter: brain - err.. keyboard. But to my defense I'm always polite to women IRL and should of course behave the same on the internet.

Sinamsis wrote:
If you like the Gretsch style pickups, I can't recommend TV Jones enough. I think they're using his classics on some of their higher end models. I have an orange 5422 that felt nice to play, but just sounded really muddy. Switching out the stock pickups to TV Jones Classics made all the difference in the world. It sounds fantastics. I didn't really mention it I guess because to me, it didn't seem like the ideal shoe gaze guitar. But it's a very nice, mellow sound.


Are these types of PUs jangely all the time? I mean can you make them sound more like regular Humbuckers.
Single coil/low output PUs sound good on overdiven/fuzz. Varm pleasant cleans (not jazz)...I'm not quite convinced.. I'm thinking how do they handle heavy modulation like Shoegaze.

Input from users like yourself are golden. YT is full of stuff that are often misleading (signal chains / recording etc). There is such an amount of distorted PU "reviews" making it impossible to judge IMO
Northward
double posting
Northward
felixer wrote:




I'm gettin' strong J. Mascis vibes over here.. hihi

Do you have any good pointers to someone who make custom pickguards . Colur AND shape? Maybe a computer generated shop where you upload your own design and Pantone colour..

The Mustang / Duo sonics looks sooo much better in cool colurs IMO. My bandmate has a sunburst with big P90's on and I think that one looks kinda bland to me. He also has this rather dull/muffled sound that I dislike and I thought: this is how P90 sound, and they are sh*t. But listening to J. Mascis and gnarly punk bands, the sound is far from muffled. Maybe it's cause they tweak with eq and high boost or something.

This tread has really inspired me to make a guitar in my own image. Not sure about starting the routing for a trem though. Kahlers seems like the least hassle cause of the integrigated springs, - lesser cavity work needed. But then again the most hassle setting up..

It may end up two guitars afterall... Beware the ghost of hording hihi
felixer
Northward wrote:
felixer wrote:




I'm gettin' strong J. Mascis vibes over here.. hihi

Do you have any good pointers to someone who make custom pickguards . Colur AND shape? Maybe a computer generated shop where you upload your own design and Pantone colour..

The Mustang / Duo sonics looks sooo much better in cool colurs IMO. My bandmate has a sunburst with big P90's on and I think that one looks kinda bland to me. He also has this rather dull/muffled sound that I dislike and I thought: this is how P90 sound, and they are sh*t. But listening to J. Mascis and gnarly punk bands, the sound is far from muffled. Maybe it's cause they tweak with eq and high boost or something.

This tread has really inspired me to make a guitar in my own image. Not sure about starting the routing for a trem though. Kahlers seems like the least hassle cause of the integrigated springs, - lesser cavity work needed. But then again the most hassle setting up..

It may end up two guitars afterall... Beware the ghost of hording hihi

all depends where you are located. in the usa there is this woman called wendy (https://www.wdmusic.com/) that does all things pickguard. here in good ol' europe there is rockinger that sells a fair selection. also 'raw' plates so you can cut your own (or have some with the proper equipment do so). many towns have a public workshop. often with lasercutters and thelike. that plastic material is tricky to cut cleanly, so you'll have to do some sanding afterwards. or use a scraper. and always best to have the guitar at hand, sizing is difficult with all those curves ...
if you are in central germany you could come to me and i'll do it for 'ya cool
and p90's don't need to sound muffled at all. prob more in this vol/tone controls (you do need a higher ohm-value for sc as for humb (for a while gibson used 300kohm pots whcich is def to low for either). and using a lot of distotion/fuzz gives a wrong impression about any sound. obviously overtones are accentuated.
felixer
Sinamsis wrote:
I think we should probably try to avoid objectifying women.

Soapbox
you should let woman talk for themselves and not act as if they are brainless beings. the last thing we need is some 'politically correct' censoring. and no need for patronizing religious babble too.
sduck
Please try to avoid this kind of bantering.
GovernorSilver
felixer wrote:

and for shoegaze stuff it's comparable to punk/new wave: any guitar that wasn't 'hip' in those days and you could get a good deal on was suitable. i'm sure they didn't go out of their way to get some specific model. all those genre's are fairly 'anti-muso'. coming in with a strat or les paul would be suspicious. like you are a player and actually know what you're doing, musically hihi


Unfortunately, Nels Cline came along and ruined the "not for musos" imsage for Jazzmasters too.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
felixer wrote:

and for shoegaze stuff it's comparable to punk/new wave: any guitar that wasn't 'hip' in those days and you could get a good deal on was suitable. i'm sure they didn't go out of their way to get some specific model. all those genre's are fairly 'anti-muso'. coming in with a strat or les paul would be suspicious. like you are a player and actually know what you're doing, musically hihi


Unfortunately, Nels Cline came along and ruined the "not for musos" imsage for Jazzmasters too.


I totally feel at home in of felixer's 'anti-muso' statement hihi as I am not a good guitarist and generally can't stand songs with guitar solos in them. With the expeption of Pink Floyd, -where they're are elegantly weaved into the songs as layered ambience together with the other elements.

The Jazzmaster nowadays being the number one guitar for the hipstery brigade is very much not hip at all in my book. The pioneering indie bands made the JM cool again. Those days are gone and they're now look like bearded 'hipsters' in a H&M advert. Then again it really doesn' matter. Whatever makes folks happy.

The only reason I'm considering one is because of the tremolo action and good for effects PU, and the smooth cleans. High comfort of playing sat down. I wouldn't like to be seen on stage with it, as I don't wanna be assosiated with your run of the mill hipster dude. Check Reverb..! hihi it's cringeworthy..

The cool thing is that you can take any old mass produced guitar and make it your own. And these are the coolest looking at IMO. Take the Telecaster that's the bread winner in any country band since the fifties and then you'd see The Clash and punk bands use (abuse) them. Among such a span of diverse artists and genres at the same time..

And the Les Paul, -the jazz guitar that's more assosiated with Slash, Ace Frehley or reggae guitarist nowadays.. lol

All above is of course just IMO.

NB. felixer - I've sent you a PM.
commodorejohn
Then again, the flip side of that is that those guitars were cool for those styles because someone took them and played that music with them. So pick what you like the sound, features, and playing feel of, make it look however you want it to, then go out and play the music you like - and if people don't like that, screw 'em lol
Northward
commodorejohn wrote:
Then again, the flip side of that is that those guitars were cool for those styles because someone took them and played that music with them. So pick what you like the sound, features, and playing feel of, make it look however you want it to, then go out and play the music you like - and if people don't like that, screw 'em lol


I fail to see the flip side as I think you're bang on what I just wrote smile
Someone creative found something cool when most didn't. Changing the perception of it with their talent. But there is an expiration date. Some new kid inevitably comes along and piss on the old established ideas hihi That's just natural..

The big players in the guitar industry must be of the most conservative and least innovative companies compared to their size. But are guitarist really the same..or do they just eat what's being served..
felixer
GovernorSilver wrote:
felixer wrote:

and for shoegaze stuff it's comparable to punk/new wave: any guitar that wasn't 'hip' in those days and you could get a good deal on was suitable. i'm sure they didn't go out of their way to get some specific model. all those genre's are fairly 'anti-muso'. coming in with a strat or les paul would be suspicious. like you are a player and actually know what you're doing, musically hihi


Unfortunately, Nels Cline came along and ruined the "not for musos" imsage for Jazzmasters too.

well, the jazzmaster (as it's name implies) was specifically designed to lure some (tradionally gibson) customers away towards fender. that didn't work out but it found it's place somewhere else.
felixer
Northward wrote:

And the Les Paul, -the jazz guitar that's more assosiated with Slash, Ace Frehley or reggae guitarist nowadays.. lol

steve jones of sex pistols (in)fame was the exception. he always played a les paul custom. but then he (secretly) wanted to be like jimmy page. so much for punkesthetic hihi
felixer
Northward wrote:
The big players in the guitar industry must be of the most conservative and least innovative companies compared to their size. But are guitarist really the same..or do they just eat what's being served..

definetly. i can built and design my own guitars (and i will not play anything else, given a choice except for some 'special project'). but many can't. and there is always the 'me too' factor. some folks just love to look&sound like someone else. beats me ...
cretaceousear
Sorry only skimmed the thread - have you tried a Gretsch Electromatic Pro Jet - the one with the blacktop filtertrons ?
Some people say it gets you in LP territory but I don't find that. Sounds like itself, from jangly to graunchy - plenty of other tones and better ergonomics than LPs.
Mine gets used mostly for shoegazy - filtertrons are medium output humbuckers so not high gain monsters, though they can be - contrast well with my mate's stratty/tele sounds. Really well made guitars and cheap second hand. Try one!

The one with BT filtertrons is now the old model - the new model has more LP style pickups apparently. Mistake imho but I've not tried one.

Oh yeah - available with Bigsby of course. thumbs up
Or not if you don't like 'em.
Sinamsis
sduck wrote:
Please try to avoid this kind of bantering.


Which kind of banter? The gentle reminder that perhaps the line was being toed? Or Felixer kicking it up a notch?

There's nothing PC about me. Even the OP acknowledged it. There's no soap box. Clearly not religious either. Be respectful. Stop being a dick. It's not a lot to ask. Instead, you choose to escalate things.
GovernorSilver
felixer wrote:
Northward wrote:

And the Les Paul, -the jazz guitar that's more assosiated with Slash, Ace Frehley or reggae guitarist nowadays.. lol

steve jones of sex pistols (in)fame was the exception. he always played a les paul custom. but then he (secretly) wanted to be like jimmy page. so much for punkesthetic hihi


Johnny Marr was another non-hard rock player who played a Les Paul live, although he struck me as more of the type of guitarist who liked to rotate guitars often.

Sinamsis
cretaceousear
My 5422 had the blacktop Filtertrons. Not sure if they're the same. But I hated them. Haha, it goes to show how personally these things are. I'm much happier with my TV Jones. I feel like there's more clarity in the sound.

Northward
I'm not sure about jangly. Ha, I find that we used a lot of abstract terms in the world of guitar and I don't always understand them. So like for me, jangly is associated with Rickenbackers. Twangy is a tele. Haha, the guy that sold the TV Jones to me said he found them to make the guitar sound to "acoustic," I don't know what that means. Here's a half finished recording I used the 5422 on. It's the main guitar through the whole thing. Unfortunately it's the only thing I've recorded with it so far as I've been focusing on more synth based stuff lately.


[s]http://soundcloud.com/sinamsis/091017-revised[/s]
smetak
Enrolled in a luthier workshop to get my mind off from everyday duggery.

Bought a cheap Eastwood Two Tone Airline with a Bigsby trem to work upon.

Remaking the entire thing, adding a new neck plate, with only a volume and tone knob for both pickups and rerouting the output jack from the plate, directly to the wooden body - and while at it, got a pair of used TV Jones pickups - coming out quite nice.

Its a short scale guitar and perfect to play Marc Ribot solos, Thurston Moore tunings and even a few Nels Cline chops (even though its not a Jazzmaster nor a Jaguar).
Sinamsis
smetak
That's awesome. Good for you! I'm embarrassed that as a guitarist, I didn't truly know my instrument for a very long time. Honestly I still don't completely. I would love to do something like that some day!
felixer
Sinamsis wrote:
I didn't truly know my instrument for a very long time. Honestly I still don't completely.

but that's good! it leaves something to be discovered. what put me off keyboards (i was trained as a classical pianist) is that it is too logical ... good for working out things (llike composing something traditional) but not so great for experimenting, afaik.
btw gretches as a rule sound both brighter and deeper then a les paul. that's prob what they mean by 'acoustic'. and a lot of it is in the pickups. making 'm with standard humbucker makes no sense to me. the other way around (les paul with gretch pickup, esp in the neck position does make sense (jan akkerman played one like that for a while).
anyway, two the same pickups on any guitar seem silly. get some variation!
smetak
Sinamsis wrote:
smetak
That's awesome. Good for you! I'm embarrassed that as a guitarist, I didn't truly know my instrument for a very long time. Honestly I still don't completely. I would love to do something like that some day!


Quite nice, mate!

Very therapeutic.

Was really in need of something like this - working with wood, something I did in my teens and wanted to get back to ever since.

The art of trimming, carving and cutting things at a very slow, steady pace, trying your hand on precision and patience - works wonders on your concentration and takes your mind off from everyday tyranny.

I live, or attempt to live, in a very rough country, with a harsh reality, and this has been a mental oasis.

Highly recommended!
Northward
smetak wrote:
Enrolled in a luthier workshop to get my mind off from everyday duggery.

Bought a cheap Eastwood Two Tone Airline with a Bigsby trem to work upon.

Remaking the entire thing, adding a new neck plate, with only a volume and tone knob for both pickups and rerouting the output jack from the plate, directly to the wooden body - and while at it, got a pair of used TV Jones pickups - coming out quite nice.

Its a short scale guitar and perfect to play Marc Ribot solos, Thurston Moore tunings and even a few Nels Cline chops (even though its not a Jazzmaster nor a Jaguar).


Good stuff

The Eastwood Two Tone Airline, isn't that a replica of a Davie Bowie guitar that they resently made a signature of?
Think it was Supra or some resurected brand..

Speaking of, it's a bit sad for a scandinavian to see a good old quality brand like Hagström guitars sold, bought and someone are now making bad quality copies of their history. The look is all that remains. I know cause I grew up with them around here where the grown up players praised they.
Northward
smetak wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
smetak
That's awesome. Good for you! I'm embarrassed that as a guitarist, I didn't truly know my instrument for a very long time. Honestly I still don't completely. I would love to do something like that some day!


Quite nice, mate!

Very therapeutic.

Was really in need of something like this - working with wood, something I did in my teens and wanted to get back to ever since.

The art of trimming, carving and cutting things at a very slow, steady pace, trying your hand on precision and patience - works wonders on your concentration and takes your mind off from everyday tyranny.

I live, or attempt to live, in a very rough country, with a harsh reality, and this has been a mental oasis.

Highly recommended!



There is something very Zen over what you're describing. Made me think about this book title
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
cretaceousear
My 5422 had the blacktop Filtertrons. Not sure if they're the same. But I hated them. Haha, it goes to show how personally these things are. I'm much happier with my TV Jones. I feel like there's more clarity in the sound.

Northward
I'm not sure about jangly. Ha, I find that we used a lot of abstract terms in the world of guitar and I don't always understand them. So like for me, jangly is associated with Rickenbackers. Twangy is a tele. Haha, the guy that sold the TV Jones to me said he found them to make the guitar sound to "acoustic," I don't know what that means. Here's a half finished recording I used the 5422 on. It's the main guitar through the whole thing. Unfortunately it's the only thing I've recorded with it so far as I've been focusing on more synth based stuff lately.


[s]http://soundcloud.com/sinamsis/091017-revised[/s]


Thanks for the music man smile

The TV Jones are def clear sounding. But with empezised brightness over warmth I do get a bit of thet "jangely" wibe. Not 12 string Richenbacker, but still more stringy sounding. I guess that is something I'm a bit torn about. I like that Humbucker warmth for neck. And with strong effects I'd like the guitar to sound like something else.. just a tool for textures and pads. I dislike the Telecaster twangy neck for modulation as well. Maybe I need just a clear single coil bridge PU without too much character.. Maybe a Hofner Blade type..

I think I may have just stated the obvious hehe.. -why so many guitarist have so many guitars.. hihi

I've seen Martin Gore play Gretches exclusevly live. I know he dig their look, usure if he customize the pickups.

Anyone whom have heard the Creamery '13 custom Humbuckers?
Bernard Sumner of Joy Division / New Order
https://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/custom-13-dirty-northern-humbucker- set.html
smetak
Yep, that's it.

[/img]

And he even added a Bigsby.
smetak
Northward wrote:


There is something very Zen over what you're describing. Made me think about this book title


Right on!

Read the book years ago!
Northward
smetak wrote:
Northward wrote:


There is something very Zen over what you're describing. Made me think about this book title


Right on!

Read the book years ago!


Thought so. Is it good? My proffesor at University gave it a warm recommendation, but as I'm bit dyslectic I haven't read many books really. I love soundbooks though, and it has been on my list since then.

...and the Bigsby is my only dislike about that model. Shoegazing with a Bigsby... computer says no...
I really like the look. Never saw Bowie with one. Besides the whole signature thing - it's cool. How was the quility from fractory?
smetak
Northward wrote:
smetak wrote:
Northward wrote:


There is something very Zen over what you're describing. Made me think about this book title


Right on!

Read the book years ago!


Thought so. Is it good? My proffesor at University gave it a warm recommendation, but as I'm bit dyslectic I haven't read many books really. I love soundbooks though, and it has been on my list since then.

...and the Bigsby is my only dislike about that model. Shoegazing with a Bigsby... Computer says no...
I really like the look. Never saw Bowie with one. Besides the whole signature thing it's cool. How was the quility from fractory?


I read the book centuries ago - when I was in my late teens/early 20s, sometime in the 80s, when life was easier, more innocent and simple, when everything seemed like endless opportunity.....made a good deal of sense then. As well as Beat lit - On the Road, Coney Island of the Mind, interviews with John Giorno & Lou Reed, the weirdness of Burroughs and so on - but that's all in the very distant past. Today, just a good deal of bills to pay and unwanted responsabilities, attempting to survive in the tropics.

As for the Eastwood - I bought it relatively cheap - but the original owner did his own mods on it - and did add a Bigsby - the original model comes just with a fixed bridge. Thought about reinserting the bridge, but came to like the retro-style looks of the bigsby, which really does light up the guitar as a whole.

Although, due to the vibrato, changed the original tuners for Gotohs and will have to reroute the tone and volume knobs (and did trim the controls, from four to only two knobs for both pickups) and will have to drill an opening for the output jack. The guitar, per say, is decent, reasonably built, with a very comfortable, thick neck - my biggest criticism is having everything added to the neckplate, which seems a bit flimsy; for the price - you can find a used one for about US$450 - I don't see how you can go wrong.

Like everyone, thought about a Jazzmaster - but wanted something a tad different - shoegazing with a jaguar or jazzmaster has become overkill. Thoguht about a new Danelectro, but was too expensive around here and difficult to import, so got the Eastwood instead, which I'm steadily working on. So far, happy with the results.
Rex Coil 7
Here's a Warmoth based axe. It began life as an alder Tele with a Padouk neck. I have a neck injury that gets in my way when playing a guitar ... if my right elbow is ~kicked outward~ (like when you're playing an acoustic) my neck begins screaming at me, and doesn't stop for about a week.

I noticed that playing a Gibson Explorer or a Flying V, or my Dean ML my neck doesn't bug me at all. It has to do with my elbow not being forced forward due to the body shape. So I drew a line on the Tele body and took a saw to it. Now it has an Explorer top profile and a Tele bottom profile.

It is called The Shredbilly.

No finish at all (neck or body) other than oiling them down twice per year with furniture oil. I LOVE LOVE the Padouk neck with a Strat head. It sounds like Maple, and feels like Bubinga (that sortof waxy, slick feel that your hand doesn't get hung up on at all). Stainless frets ... they took a while to "play in" but once they do those frets are so slick that bends are nearly effortless. Black Macassar Ebony fretboard. Warmoth's dual stainless neck struts wit that tricked out adjustment gizmo.

All stainless everything ... string ferrules, pickguard screws, "dumbell style" string trees, neck plate, strap buttons, neck screws ... all stainless Calahamm stuff. Gotoh brass bridge, Planet Waves self trimming/locking tuners (those things rock!).

Pickups are Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders with coil taps. The two pots are "pop up" switching types. To make them switch, you just push down on the knob and the pot ~pops up~ into the switch's next throw. So, knobs UP = coils not tapped (LOUD!) .... knobs DOWN = coils tapped (standard Tele impedance and resistance levels). Knobs are standard Tele tone and volume setup.

It's ugly as a mud fence, and purists want to pull their hair out when they see it. I catch six loads of shit from them ... "you've RUINED a perfectly good Telecaster!!!" .... "you should be shot!" .... "people like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a guitar or a saw!!!" ....

Redneck

Haahaa!!! I love it when they flip out like that. lol (pic taken just after final assembly before intonation was set).









I play it through a Marshall JTM45 head, a Marshall 2061 20 watt Lead/Bass head, and a Fender FM100H head. I have an amp switcher and a cab switcher (both DIY). The cabs are a 2x12 closed back 13 layer Birch ply with Celestion Greenbacks, and a 2x12 open back 13 layer Birch ply with Celestion Vintage 30s. Both are wired at 16 ohms. I also know a guy that makes fairly decent pedals that I use as well ....










Here's my 4 pickup Jazz bass .... this thing JAMS and is a total Ricky Killer!



As you can tell, I'm not afraid to take a chainsaw to my instruments.

In any case, I LOVE my Shredbilly, it can be the well mannered chickin picker with the knobs ~down~, and go straight to FEK YOU! just by pushing down on the knobs and allowing them to pop-up into full coil winding configuration which about doubles the output voltage (front knob-switch is for the neck pickup, back knob-switch is for the bridge pickup). Plays a dream too, that Padouk neck with stainless frets is really excellent. The upper body chop really works for me!

So .. (OP) .. go for it! Buy some Warmoth parts, and git ta bizzy with it already!!

thumbs up
smetak
Amazing DIY! Very impressive!
GovernorSilver
NIce pics, Rex Coil 7.

Did you design the Shredbilly to have a detachable top? Or was the top permanently removed?
Rex Coil 7
GovernorSilver wrote:
.... Did you design the Shredbilly to have a detachable top? Or was the top permanently removed?
Nope ... it's been chopped clean off for good ... I just placed the cut-off portion there in that picture to demonstrate how much was removed. Did it all with a jigsaw.

I then stuck a router bit in one of my drill presses and rounded off the freshly cut shoulders with a 1" radius. Maybe it was a 1/2" radius ... can't really recall. I just set the bit height so it was proper, turned on the motor and fed the body around against the router bit by sliding it around on the drill press table. It was a little scary with that router bit spinning just waiting to take a chunk of my fingers off. But, it worked fine. Sanded it down afterwards, applied some furniture oil .. called it done.

Now my arm lays right against my torso when I play, just as if I were playing a Flying V.

Happy.

GovernorSilver wrote:
NIce pics, Rex Coil 7.


smetak wrote:
Amazing DIY! Very impressive!


Thanks for the compliments fellas!!

thumbs up
Northward
Now that's a custom guitar.. Originality FTW! hihi

Makes perfect sense to shape the guitar corpus to the players corpus.
And dudes, I am quite surpriced to find such guitar passion on a site like Muffwiggler. Did not expect that at all. thumbs up

That pedal looks like army issue..
Rex Coil 7
Northward wrote:
Now that's a custom guitar.. Originality FTW! hihi

Makes perfect sense to shape the guitar corpus to the players corpus.
And dudes, I am quite surpriced to find such guitar passion on a site like Muffwiggler. Did not expect that at all. thumbs up
Thanks! A guitar is a tool, a tool that serves me, not the other way around. So I feel that modifying one to allow me to play better, for longer, and livelier, is a better tool.

Northward wrote:
That pedal looks like army issue..
Army issue you say!





lol

(I've unsubscribed - I'm not upset or having a Midol moment - just trying to keep my number of subscribed threads under better control - if you wish to correspond please feel free to send me a PM, I'll be happy to hear from you - thanks!)
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:

And dudes, I am quite surpriced to find such guitar passion on a site like Muffwiggler. Did not expect that at all. thumbs up



That's one thing different about MW compared to other synth forums. This might be the only one where nobody assumes that because you're into synths, you must also be a keyboard player.

My first formal lessons were on the piano, but after one of my early college roommates taught me how to play guitar, I was hooked. 6-voice polyphonic analog string modeling synth - the appeal is obvious. wink
commodorejohn
I think when you get right down to it, a lot of us just like anything that lets us make interesting noises lol
forestcaver
Fixed it to describe me more accurately :-)

commodorejohn wrote:
a lot of us just like anything that lets us make noises lol
Northward
commodorejohn wrote:
I think when you get right down to it, a lot of us just like anything that lets us make interesting noises lol


Exactamundo! hihi
GovernorSilver
The Bowie Supro sounds pretty decent. They also demo it w/ Pigtronix pedals.



Now I have some GAS for a Supro baritone.
cretaceousear
Nice sounds Sinamsis on your 5422 with TV Jones - lovely clear tone. From everything I've heard though the BTs (yes they're the same) do sound different from Jets to the hollow bodies.
There are times the BTs get too narly but turn the volume down on the guitar and they clean up into jazz territory - I have a modeller amp and still surprised at some of the tone and sound variations you can get.

That's why the guitar is such a successful instrument - big range of sounds from different approaches. Hit hard hit soft, thick plectrum, very-thin plectrum. Guitar volume high /low, pickup variants, string weight. Maple, rosewood.
You lot know all that already!

Aren't those pedals your own RexCoil - from your previous life as pedal maker?
I like the tele!
There's a guitar looks like that isn't there - can't remember the name.. Italia or someone like that.
Northward
With the guitar savy people in this tread. I have a quite simple newb question here:

Can you make a Telecaster (neck) sound like a Les Paul with an identical PU?

I ask cause there is a lot of Youtube videos with this PU configuration, but I'm not hearing that varm "singing" strum you hear from a Les Paul. Am I being silly here, or is it the LP neck through construction, heavier mass that makes this sound..? E.g. the L&G Bluesboy have a SH config. and is a very popular model. But I really can't judge when Youtube is wallpapered with bloody blues licks. (sorry, I hate blues).

I'm sure there is heaps of Paf Humbucker lovers who prefer the comfort of a Tele over a Les Paul. But do they get the goods when swapping?

Thanks
commodorejohn
The Les Paul isn't neck-through, but set-neck. (I'm sure there's some esoteric guitars out there with neck-through construction, but for the most part it seems reserved for high-end basses.) It's also mahogany with a mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard, as opposed to the standard Telecaster alder (or ash) body plus maple neck and maple fretboard design, and furthermore they're different scale lengths and bridge constructions. There's just so many factors that it seems unlikely you're going to get one to sound exactly like the other.

That said, are you sure you're getting an apples-to-apples comparison with the pickups to begin with? If you're looking at demos of the Telecaster Deluxe with Fender's humbuckers (or something that's copying them,) those have quite a different sound from the Gibson design to begin with, so that may be a key difference here.
Northward
commodorejohn wrote:
The Les Paul isn't neck-through, but set-neck. (I'm sure there's some esoteric guitars out there with neck-through construction, but for the most part it seems reserved for high-end basses.) It's also mahogany with a mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard, as opposed to the standard Telecaster alder (or ash) body plus maple neck and maple fretboard design, and furthermore they're different scale lengths and bridge constructions. There's just so many factors that it seems unlikely you're going to get one to sound exactly like the other.

That said, are you sure you're getting an apples-to-apples comparison with the pickups to begin with? If you're looking at demos of the Telecaster Deluxe with Fender's humbuckers (or something that's copying them,) those have quite a different sound from the Gibson design to begin with, so that may be a key difference here.


I've tried to find the custom built Telecasters and not those Wide range stock (Deluxe 72) Fender ones, -which I think sound really clear and I don't know what to make of them (An attempt to make a hum free single coil sound..?)


I'm sure the heavier wood, mahogany or others must work better for the sustain.

So scale lengths affect sound...
If you eliminate that typical Telecaster bridge construction (sans twang if you will), and use a heavier wood, wouldn't the sound become more simular as well?
commodorejohn
It'd probably get you closer, yeah - the question is, if you did all that, would the rest of it still sound like a Tele?
Northward
That's really my inquiry. I thought pickup swap would change it all cause they're both solid body design.
commodorejohn
Nah, there's tons of factors. Pickups are a big one, of course, but so are pickup position on the scale length (put the same pickup in a different position on the same instrument and it's going to sound different,) tone qualities of the materials, etc.
Sinamsis
Yeah, there are a ton of features that play into tone (and sustain, which impacts over all playing style and final tone) from the bridge to the nut. The other thing to remember is Fender Widerange Humbuckers are not the same size as regular humbuckers. That said, in the reissues, they've potted shitty regular humbuckers into a widerange humbucker cover. The OTHER thing to note about the FWRH is that the magnets do not line up evenly with the strings. This may play a role in over all tone.

Also, before you decide you don't like the widerange humbucker tone (which was initially developed to compete with the Gibson humbucker sound while not losing the Fender twang), you need to hear a "real" FWRH, not the Fender reissue non-sense. By real I mean the real deal or a more authentic clone like Novak, Fralin or several others.

I'm a Fender design fanboy so take everything I say with a grain of salt. Haha, I've never once wanted a Les Paul. I've considered SGs, but I hate the Gibson scale. I just generally prefer Fenders in terms of feel. I'm pretty happy with the tone I've been getting. I didn't go into it saying I wanted this tone or that. I think trying different guitars has taught me what I like. You can't try everything I guess. But reading a bit you'll find things you might like. And trying them out, you'll know for sure. I think the end result is probably the least important part of the process if that makes any sense. It's everything in between that teaches you so much. And building your guitar from parts, you learn even more. And you might not feel so bad switching out parts that you don't like.
GovernorSilver
Now you know why peeps who want a Tele sound and a Les Paul sound end up getting both types of guitars.
felixer
but then there are many les pauls with a maple neck (still a shorter scale). and a big one is the whole bridge construction. and a real lp custom doesn't have a maple top. etc etc etc. even if you built two guitars from the same tree and all other factors are the same they would still be different guitars.
but you can get pretty close in getting one sound or another by getting a smart selction of pickups.

carrying more guitars then a spare seems to gave gone out of fashion. even on studio recordings i don't hear as much variation in guitarsounds thru an album as there used to be in the past.
commodorejohn
felixer wrote:
carrying more guitars then a spare seems to gave gone out of fashion. even on studio recordings i don't hear as much variation in guitarsounds thru an album as there used to be in the past.

Yes, well, you don't hear as much modular synthesizer on an album as there used to be either, and look where we're posting wink
Northward
All this love for rosewood fretboards over others. I thought it all was a matter of preference of the tactile and look and had nothing to do with sound.

I wouldn't like a Les Paul to my use because of it's shape. But I've never been a fan of that famous Telecaster twang neither. I've also decided to trust my gut feeling on both P90s and Jazzmaster PU, and also the Jauguar. At the moment they're not for me. But, a lot of options out there. Especially with custom PU, as some of you have mentioned.

The search continues.. hihi
commodorejohn
Northward wrote:
All this love for rosewood fretboards over others. I thought it all was a matter of preference of the tactile and look and had nothing to do with sound.

The answer is "D. all the above." I wouldn't say one is unilaterally better than the other (I have instruments with fretboards in both rosewood and maple, and they're all good,) but there is a difference in sound, although it's subtler than the choice of neck or body material. Some people on YouTube have done pretty methodical A/B comparisons (at least one guy actually swapped out necks on the exact same Jazz Bass,) and you can definitely hear it; seems to my ears like it's primarily in how defined the attack is. I don't know that it's something I'd buy or reject an instrument over, but it is a thing.
felixer
basically, the harder that fretboard material, the brighter and attackier the tone is going to be. i like ebony because i get a good clear attack with that. which i need for certain musical parts. and it looks good too. the really deep black stuff is the hardest. the brown/white streaks in a lot of macassar are softer. luckiliy i know a guy who has stock of fine african stuff til the next century, so i have the luxury to work with nice material. for the rest of the neck i worked with teak, cherry, pear, nut. all good and useful. no reason to get hungup on mahogany and other exotics. homegrown is fine!
prob the best guitari'v build is pear. bit like maple i guess. but somehow not so brittle. nice to work with. but it's heavy. but it also 'proves' that a heavy guitar has a heavier tone. in certain other circkles they strive for a very lightweight construction but that never sounded much good to me.
commodorejohn
Pear, now that's an interesting idea. My alto recorder is pearwood; for something that hard, it's a wonderful smooth feel, and sounds great.
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:
All this love for rosewood fretboards over others. I thought it all was a matter of preference of the tactile and look and had nothing to do with sound.


Oh yes it does. Actually, I don't have any electric guitars with rosewood fretboards. I have two with maple, one with ebony, and one with phenolic.

http://www.wiredguitarist.com/2016/05/16/rosewood-vs-maple-vs-ebony-fr etboards/

I like to play with a lot of hammer-ons, and I like to mess with pick harmonics and the like. Those are the reasons I chose maple over rosewood if given a choice. As you would suspect, maple fretboard is part of the recipe for the twang/spank that the country players love in a properly (for them) configured Telecaster. I haven't found the tone with my rosewood-free guitars to be unbearably bright at all, but then I've been working for a while at being able to manage the "warm" vs. "bright"/"snap" balance via my playing technique.

Rosewood is known for absorbing highs, which for some is desirable.

Northward wrote:

I wouldn't like a Les Paul to my use because of it's shape. But I've never been a fan of that famous Telecaster twang neither. I've also decided to trust my gut feeling on both P90s and Jazzmaster PU, and also the Jauguar. At the moment they're not for me. But, a lot of options out there. Especially with custom PU, as some of you have mentioned.

The search continues.. hihi


There are Telecaster/Telecaster clones with soapbar pickups. G&L comes to mind, but there are other makers too.
Northward
I'm just amazed by the knowlege (guitar nerdiness.. hihi ) in here.. I'm never scrolling trough another bantering guitar forum ever again. Apparently muffwiggler is where the true guitar aficionados hang out.. Rockin' Banana!

I never knew this about dark vs light wood and attack. I just assumed is was all down to feel / look. I like the look of light wood, but I'm definitly more into attack. Good to know.

felixer,- I'm getting really curious over here about your total guitar collection, -stuff you made over the years..

Did you (or anyone else) own a Yamaha SG? I sure like the look of that guitar, maybe cause the old LP's of Carlos Santana my brother had when I was a kid. These have become so insanly expensive. Top craftmanship I assume. I heard they're super heavy and has a singing sustain. I'm often on the ebay.de to check what's on offer. Many sec hand guitars seems in very good condition in Germany.

There is also the Ibanez AS model that a lot of people dig and from all kinds of player styles it seems. Too bad Ibanez has discontinued the natural finish. That's a beautiful guitar IMO.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:


There are Telecaster/Telecaster clones with soapbar pickups. G&L comes to mind, but there are other makers too.


The G&L Teles looks nice. Been scooping them out for quite some time in hope of new models. But they too stopped making their Tele with a tremolo that I want. G&L made a limited edition run of US race car coloured guitars that I thought looked awesome hihi

The discontinued Fender Vintage Modified Telecaster with a SH configuration and tremolo bar would have been perfect for me as for right now. But they are rare over here. I suspect the Telecaster/JM hybrid Paralell Universe model will spawn alot of inspired new guitars out there. Like we saw with the Fender Cabronita, that was so expensive people thought it ridiculous. There must be some kind of DIY record of this guitar (before the Squier model came around).

I'm also on the lookout for a fair priced Yamaha SG or Ibanez AS / AM. Think I just might have me a weekend abroad smile
sduck
I had a Yamaha SG2000 for a while. I never really gelled with it, but I had a LOT of guitars at the time (right before getting married). There was nothing wrong with it actually, it played great, sounded fantastic. I should have held on to it - they've skyrocketed in price. In that same realm of things another to consider is the Ibanez Artists - the early ones especially, form the 70's and early 80's are amazing. You can find those for a bit less than the Yamahas. Oh, and the absolute best in that Japanese Les Paul clone-ish realm is the Ibanez Professional - they came out briefly right before the Artists did. They are forever linked to the Grateful Dead, as Bobby Weir played one for quite a while, but despite all that, they're really fantastic guitars - I've owned 2, and am looking for another one. They're really hard to find decent ones though, they never made very many of them.
Northward
sduck wrote:
I had a Yamaha SG2000 for a while. I never really gelled with it, but I had a LOT of guitars at the time (right before getting married). There was nothing wrong with it actually, it played great, sounded fantastic. I should have held on to it - they've skyrocketed in price.


I bet you wanna shoot yourselves in the foot over that one d'oh!
hihi

How was the neck compared to a Fender Tele/Strat?
Are they thick?
sduck
Northward wrote:
sduck wrote:
I had a Yamaha SG2000 for a while. I never really gelled with it, but I had a LOT of guitars at the time (right before getting married). There was nothing wrong with it actually, it played great, sounded fantastic. I should have held on to it - they've skyrocketed in price.


I bet you wanna shoot yourselves in the foot over that one d'oh!
hihi


Not nearly as much as for selling the 1985 PRS custom I had - serial number 6 or something like that. Bought it new from the first store to carry them, sold it a few years later for not nearly enough (and the yamaha in trade). It's priceless now.

Northward wrote:
How was the neck compared to a Fender Tele/Strat?
Are they thick?


It was closer to a les paul neck, maybe a bit wider, and definitely not as thick. It's been a long time though, my memory isn't great on it...
felixer
commodorejohn wrote:
Pear, now that's an interesting idea. My alto recorder is pearwood; for something that hard, it's a wonderful smooth feel, and sounds great.

quite a few medieval instuments are made of pear. a friend of mine had an altoviolin made (old music style) and was advised that a pear backplate would be perfect. not some fancy maple.
we've been spoiled with all these vague wooddeals. the more exotic the better it sometimes seemded. well, tone-wise there is no reason for that. inland woods are often easier to get and cheaper. and sometimes you can go to the mill and tell/explain why it would be better to cut those planks some other way.
depends on the region obviously. i get my walnut from france. still reasonably close by.
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:

The discontinued Fender Vintage Modified Telecaster with a SH configuration and tremolo bar would have been perfect for me as for right now. But they are rare over here. I suspect the Telecaster/JM hybrid Paralell Universe model will spawn alot of inspired new guitars out there.


Maybe not exactly like that, but Shelton makes some guitars that come close:

http://www.sheltonelectricinstruments.com/guitars.html

Example model:
GovernorSilver
I mostly talk about 'Murican guitars because of my country of residence. Not so familiar with UK/Euro makers. Surely there's somebody there?

Levinson/Blade is one of the few i know of - you're on your own to search that site to see if he makes anything of interest:
http://www.bladeguitars.com/

I checked the Duesenberg site - seems like they cater to lovers of twang and jangle. wink

There are a couple of German makers I admire (Teuffel and Spalt) but they might be too avant-garde for you.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:


Maybe not exactly like that, but Shelton makes some guitars that come close:

http://www.sheltonelectricinstruments.com/guitars.html

Example model:


Interesting builder. That model bear witness of Fenders lack of any original ideas since 1986.. hihi

Thanks for the links. Always nice to check out unknown cool stuff that's out there, obscured by the big boring companies.
Sinamsis
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).
felixer
GovernorSilver wrote:
Not so familiar with UK/Euro makers. Surely there's somebody there?

loads of 'm. but usually small makers. not huge firms. check the qualified in the back of muso mags. also people who do mods&repairs a lot occasionally built something from scratch.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).


I think I’m pretty sold on those by now.. thanks
If I ever get something made with that style of trem, there won’t be no doubts hihi
GovernorSilver
Sinamsis wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).


I actually only heard about Shelton when a local guitarist I know got one, This is his signature model - a variation on the Galaxy Flite:

https://www.facebook.com/sheltonelectric/videos/1629036663880962/

I believe he plays it with The Messthetics as well as on his own. He freely admits he stole a lot from Nels Cline; from the type of guitar to FX pedal appraoches to the punk meets jazz meets rootsy stuff personal style. Nels doesn't seem as into synths though.

Don Grosh has been buliding his own neat variation of the Jazzmaster for years, but I think Shelton took it a bit further. I like the alignment of the pole pieces on that Jazzmaster-fied Tele's neck pickup.
Sinamsis
GovernorSilver
That's pretty awesome. I've never heard of that MIDI converter. I'm reading up on it now. I've been really thinking about getting some sort of MIDI converter installed on one of my guitars. Ha, I even toyed around with getting one of those Moog guitars (some are a little ugly, but I really lust after them haha). Most realistically, I may do this with my bass.

And I'm a fan of Nels Cline. Pretty much the main thing that I like about Wilco.
GovernorSilver
Sinamsis wrote:
GovernorSilver
That's pretty awesome. I've never heard of that MIDI converter. I'm reading up on it now. I've been really thinking about getting some sort of MIDI converter installed on one of my guitars. Ha, I even toyed around with getting one of those Moog guitars (some are a little ugly, but I really lust after them haha). Most realistically, I may do this with my bass.

And I'm a fan of Nels Cline. Pretty much the main thing that I like about Wilco.


My one encounter with Nels was buying a Geraldine Fibbers CD when he and Carla Bozulich were in town. Nels was doing triple duty that night - opening act as a solo performer, backing up Carla, and manning the merch table, lol.

I visited Mr. Pirog and his lovely wife at their new place once, where he showed me some of his synth gear. He swore me to secrecy about the synth thing, then Shelton let the cat out of the bag wink. He's either using a Roland converter or perhaps an old Axon.

I believe Kiesel/Carvin also uses the Graphtech GHOST system for 13-pin guitar-synth connectivity. There was a bit of debate back in the day which was better, between the Graphtech and the older RMC pickup system.

I managed to avoid falling in lust with Moog Guitars, but I did drool quite a bit over the Moog Lap Steel.

I was surprised to see the price of this new MIDI-ready bass - fret sensing MIDI basses were pretty damn expensive back in the day.

http://www.industrialradio.com.au/products/pro-4-midi-bass.html
Sinamsis
GovernorSilver
I've seen those basses before, I think the bassist from Yeasayer uses one. They seem nice. Ha, but I'm thinking something I could just throw on my Stingray.
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
GovernorSilver
That's pretty awesome. I've never heard of that MIDI converter. I'm reading up on it now. I've been really thinking about getting some sort of MIDI converter installed on one of my guitars.


Did I miss a link or something...what MIDI converter are you referring to?
I too have been intrigued by the thought of MIDI on a guitar as I don’t play keys as good as guitar. But when researching the subject I’ve found quite a few lukewarm users (Roland GK..)

Would be nice to play my synths vía midi, -strumming melodies without a ‘guitar synth’ as a link between guitar and DAW. I understand this is still somewhat of a hit and miss.
Sinamsis
Northward
In the FB video posted the guy is using a GraphTech Ghost system to play a synth via MIDI. Ha at least that’s the video that comes up for me.
GovernorSilver
Sinamsis wrote:
GovernorSilver
I've seen those basses before, I think the bassist from Yeasayer uses one. They seem nice. Ha, but I'm thinking something I could just throw on my Stingray.


Your comment made me curious about the current state of MIDI bass tech. Looks like the options for those who don't want a fret-scanning bass is still to get either the Roland GK-3B or a Graphtech Ghost (they used to spell it all caps - or maybe that was a made-up memory of mine). Since there's still no Fishman Triple Play for bass, I'm guessing users are still plugging those 13-pin cables into Roland GR-55s for MIDI conversion and synthesis. I"m also guessing the MIDI tracking on the GRs is still as bad as ever for bass, so peeps are still using the workaround of layering GR-55 HRM patches with MIDI sounds.
GovernorSilver
I have a Roland VG-99, which was Roland's first product combining Roland's Virtual Guitar (physical modeling) technology with MIDI conversion. I tried hooking it up to my Korg M3 for MIDI shits and giggles and it actually wasn't that bad... on guitar. MIDI cello was more hit and miss, because it can go below guitar range, well into baritone territory. I have Roland GK3 pickups mounted on my Reverend Jetstream 390 and Parker Nitefly SSS

I haven't played too much w/ guitar synthesis on the VG-99, using just the internal synth models; and the MIDI part even less. It's because after I got the VG-99, I went through a phase of playing more piano, then getting into sequencing and live sampling/sequencing on the Octatrack. Just not enough time to learn it all.
felixer
for bass fretsensing seems to be pretty good. prob not too much bending/trem going on. hagstrom was the daddy of those.
for guitar i'm gone down with these ehx boxes. not really synth's (very preset) but at least they track well enough to do some real guitarplaying. got a B9, snyth9 and mel9. enough to drown a band hihi
haven't used my midirig in a long time ...
Sinamsis
Ha, so the thread seems to have gone in a different direction, but it seems like the OP has some interest, so lets go down this rabbit hole. I've been toying with the idea of MIDI-fying my gear for a long time. I was never sure if the Roland boxes would pass MIDI... it is annoying to have to go through another box just to convert the signal from the guitar to a MIDI signal. I have a room full of synths I'd like to use. Ha, oh well. I have used a plugin called MIDIGuitar, and that actually tracked reasonably well. So what is the "gold standard" in terms of MIDI converters for guitar and bass?
Northward
Sinamsis wrote:
Ha, so the thread seems to have gone in a different direction, but it seems like the OP has some interest, so lets go down this rabbit hole.


Yes please smile
New rabbit holes with cool new sh** to discover, all fun!

Sinamsis wrote:
I've been toying with the idea of MIDI-fying my gear for a long time. I was never sure if the Roland boxes would pass MIDI... it is annoying to have to go through another box just to convert the signal from the guitar to a MIDI signal. a room full of synths I'd like to use


Dude, you are preaching to the congregation. These «guitar synths» are the reason I’m put off by the midi guitar thing (never heard any sound that impressed me). But oh my lord I would have loved to plug the guitar straight into the Midi in on my soundcard and control synths.

If any of you are familiar with the Sonicstate podcast, you will know Yoad Nevo. He is a very experienced producer and musician and is a seasoned synth user. The thing is, he started out with the guitar as his main instrument and I’m sure he has gone through all guitar to midi options out there. He also works for Waves now. If anyone of you know him or have worked with him I convinced he’s a goldmine on the subject. Gaz Williams is a bass player and also really into experimenting how to effectively control synths and other gear via expression foot pedalsand from his bass for gigging.
We may succeed in getting the subject discussed on the podcast with a bit of luck and nice YouTube comments.. Jusn an idea.

Anyhow, I’m sure there’s a lot of experience in the forum of what’s been testet satisfactory and what is a waste of money. So please... down the hole we go hihi Mr. Green
GovernorSilver
Sinamsis wrote:
Ha, so the thread seems to have gone in a different direction, but it seems like the OP has some interest, so lets go down this rabbit hole. I've been toying with the idea of MIDI-fying my gear for a long time. I was never sure if the Roland boxes would pass MIDI... it is annoying to have to go through another box just to convert the signal from the guitar to a MIDI signal. I have a room full of synths I'd like to use. Ha, oh well. I have used a plugin called MIDIGuitar, and that actually tracked reasonably well. So what is the "gold standard" in terms of MIDI converters for guitar and bass?


I hear ya about not wanting an intermediary box when you already have a nice collection of nice synths. Roland's HRM tech though is super responsive; HRM based synths track faster than any MIDI tech.

That all said, the state of the MIDI art for bass has got to be the fret-sensing stuff - either the aforementioned dedicated bass, or the even more expensive FretTraX. FretTraX as an add-on for the bass of your choice costs $500 more than that dedicated fret-sensing MIDI bass.

Last I checked, the Fishman Triple Play was the king of MIDI guitar converter tech. Andras Szalay was one of the masterminds - he was also part of the Axon project. Triple Play is wireless, which is another selling point for many.

The challenge with MIDI guitar and MIDI bass, from my perspective, is to figure out ways to use the tech so that they do more for you, creatively speaking; than just be expensive alternatives to a well-appointed pedalboard. I'm not sure I would have bothered with the VG-99 if the EHX Mel9 and B9/C9, Hologram Infinite Jets, etc. existed back then.

I actually had an EHX HOG (1st gen) pedal before I got the VG-99. I used it for synth-like chord pads to accompany my rhythm guitar playing. The GAS made me get the VG, lol.
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:
Gaz Williams is a bass player and also really into experimenting how to effectively control synths and other gear via expression foot pedalsand from his bass for gigging.


Gaz ignited my lust for a Dreadbox Abyss - his demo was the best I heard. He mentioned on Sonic State that he planned to use it with the band, with a MIDI bass designed by Steve Chick, the mastermind behind the Peavey Cyberbass - so it's probably a fret-sensing bass.

My challenge to myself is to come up with a creative application for MIDI guitar before I go down that path again; it's got to be something that's more creative than something that can be easily reproduced with current production guitar pedals. For example, the guitar->Eurorack modular demos that I've heard have all been disappointing to me, because they sound no better than fuzz pedal demos; and in fact the fuzz pedal demos turned out be more interesting anyway. I went down the Octatrack path instead because I heard demos that sounded fresh and exciting to me.

A trend that I've seen is: Guitarist discovers modular. Guitarist tries processing guitar through modular and/or guitar-to-CV or MIDI conversion. Guitarist then does a "fuck it, I give up guitar" and goes all-in on synthesis. I've seen this happen to a couple of friends locally wink.
Sinamsis
GovernorSilver
Yeah, the whole what am I adding with MIDI guitar makes me take pause. Bass, however, I feel I can justify. I think my playing style for bass is different than what I'd come up with on a keyboard, and layering a mono synth and electric bass is appealing to me.

The Moog guitar is more interesting to me because it's totally different, though it did have a MIDI option as well. Infinite sustain, but with different modes that make control easier, makes it really appealing to me. Are there any comparable alternatives these days?

Regarding the Triple Play.... the wireless aspect is a turn off for me, from what I understand. Doesn't it just come with a USB dongle? Do then I would have to use a computer. Or I guess some other sort of host, right?

Frettrax seems interesting. Maybe one day I'll have my Stingray retro-fitted. Do you know if it comes in a kit, or do they need to install it?
Sinamsis
BTW, I had a HOG, and I have a HOG 2 now... I love that pedal. It is so flexible and has so many uses.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:

A trend that I've seen is: Guitarist discovers modular. Guitarist tries processing guitar through modular and/or guitar-to-CV or MIDI conversion. Guitarist then does a "fuck it, I give up guitar" and goes all-in on synthesis. I've seen this happen to a couple of friends locally wink.


When I make music on guitar and when I make music on synths, the outcome are remarkably different. The difference in sound and tactility effects the composing style as well. Guitar being a more percussive instrument I tend to work more with the rhythm. If a midi-implication works well, I really can’t see anything but positive with it. There’s no way I’d choose between the who. I would need to start taking bloody piano lessons..hehe
felixer
the thing is that all your/most 'guitarplaying' techniques go out of the window as soon as you start using a guitar->midi interface. you have to play very clean (possible if you have good technique but boring from an audio standpoint) plus there is a delay: you hit the note and it takes a while before the midi note comes along. playing bass in some uptempo thing is impossible, unless you start playing slightly in front of the beat (this will happen almost automatically once you are playing, not as hard as it seems) but not very nice.
decent systems have a 100ms delay. which means that if you are playing 10 notes per second (not that fast) your sound is always 1 note behind. that is where the wired-fret method comes in. that response is pretty much instantaneous. as i said hagstrom (swedish guitar maker) had a system. and of course the synthaxe. but then you can't do stringbending anymore (each fret is cut up in 6 parts). and the sound starts as soon as you put on your left-hand. that is unusual and takes time to get used to.
in short: there hasn't been a system that you can take with your normal guitarplaying and get good results with.
untill those EHX boxes came out. the mother is the HOG. and then there came several spinoffs with specific sounds: organ, mellotron, electric piano's, etc. you can argue about the sounds, but the playability is superb. it feels right. and you have NO glitching and NO delays. and also they are fairly affordable. esp compared to a full midi setup. true, you can have more different sounds but also a lot more (playing) problems. and i found the playing part more important. if i want fancy sounds i'll play a keyboard. esp since fancy sounds often require fairly simple parts.
there is also the line6 variax technique. quite usefull (i have 2, one with and one without a vibrato unit. but only approximations of other guitarsounds. no synths, expept for the bass which has a 'minimoog' type sound. those weren't very succesfull, commercially, so the developmentteam fell apart and there were never any upgrades. several people built better guitars with the line6 electronics inside. i found esp the electric sounds not very convincing so i modded my variaxes with a traditional magnetic pickup for those classic distortion sounds. and use the line6 system only for acoustic simulations. some people with high-priced 12strings will complain about those sounds in the line6, but i found them to be very usefull. esp since you can have a raunchy/distorted 6string sound plus a delicate 12string sound at the same time. that is fun. and very usefull if you don't want to change guitars onstage (always a hassle). and i almost sounds like 2 players. combine that with a few ehx boxes and you have a very orchestral thing going. and you can bend and scrape what you like and it doesn't sound off.
that is the setup i'm using in this lil' electric folkband i'm playing with. works nicely.
commodorejohn
Yeah, the whole guitar-synthesizer/MIDI thing has always seemed like it's so inevitably different that you might as well just use a keyboard anyway...
Northward
So if I understand this right, even strumming clean chords on the guitar, to get Midi chords into the DAW is problematic..
And that the timing is such a hassle that you will spend a lot of time correcting timing? This seems very unsatisfactory for such expensive systems.

I own Melodyne Essential, and find it quite tedious spending time on «correction» (unless I want a certain effect). So I don’t use it much.

Bending wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me, but the other shortcomings sound daunting. Bass guitar would probably be better suited. Thanks for putting it straight.

It is surprising that this technology haven’t gotten much better over the years. I remember those Casio and Yamaha adverts in the 80s looking like the future.. hihi

Poor evolution is almost certainly down to the ridiculously conservative cult of old school guitars. I laughed hard when I read about people ripping out new circuit cards in their new Gibson Les Paul as they have been deceived by their masters. And the rage the auto tuners spawned.. No wonder the big guitar manufacturers annoyingly remain in the Stone Age.
GovernorSilver
Sinamsis wrote:
GovernorSilver
Yeah, the whole what am I adding with MIDI guitar makes me take pause. Bass, however, I feel I can justify. I think my playing style for bass is different than what I'd come up with on a keyboard, and layering a mono synth and electric bass is appealing to me.


Sounds like a good justification to me. Layering a mono synth with bass opens up quite a few possibilities, including a harmony line in 4ths or 5ths (power chords! wink), and so on.

Sinamsis wrote:

The Moog guitar is more interesting to me because it's totally different, though it did have a MIDI option as well. Infinite sustain, but with different modes that make control easier, makes it really appealing to me. Are there any comparable alternatives these days?


KMI StrongArm was supposed to be the competition, but has been held up in "under development" limbo for a while. When I first heard of it, KMI was talking up a guitar synth/MIDI section, but they appear to have broken it up into separate StrongArm and StringPort2 projects. I would not mind investing in a Reverend Eastsider T to house either product, should it finally make production.

I play viola and electric violin too, but I just don't see how I could make the K-Bow work for me. It's enough of a challenge learning to control the bow without any electronic doodads added on.

https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/

Paul Vo seems to have left Moog and gone independent. Not sure if he's still doing the Vo-96, which is the Moog Guitar tech re-imagined for acoustic guitar. He's currently working on the next-gen Vo Wond, which I guess has been renamed the EMPick. Probably going to be a monophonic sustainer, but still sounds intriguing to me:
https://www.paulvo.com/

Sinamsis wrote:

Regarding the Triple Play.... the wireless aspect is a turn off for me, from what I understand. Doesn't it just come with a USB dongle? Do then I would have to use a computer. Or I guess some other sort of host, right?


Yup, you'd need a USB host. I know... wink https://www.fishman.com/using-tripleplay-directly-with-5-pin-din-exter nal-midi-hardware/

Sinamsis wrote:

Frettrax seems interesting. Maybe one day I'll have my Stingray retro-fitted. Do you know if it comes in a kit, or do they need to install it?


Yeah, there's a retro fit kit. I did warn you about the price, lol. The red button/knob system for preset changes, with the knob assignable to different MIDI CCs, is cool though.
http://frettrax.com/
GovernorSilver
commodorejohn wrote:
Yeah, the whole guitar-synthesizer/MIDI thing has always seemed like it's so inevitably different that you might as well just use a keyboard anyway...


You can do some neat stuff like faux pedal steel bends and other double stop moves that would require poly aftertouch or MPE on a keyboard, vibrato that's more natural than LFO-driven vibrato, etc.

It's great with the Roland VG Organ, Crystal (a DX-ish electric piano), etc. models because it's physical modeling applied to processing string audio, no MIDI involved. With MIDI involved, there's a drop in expressiveness, because MIDI imposes discrete values.

For composing though, it's still so much faster and convenient - workflow wise - to just plug in a cheap keyboard and enter notes that way into your sequencer or notation app.
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:

A trend that I've seen is: Guitarist discovers modular. Guitarist tries processing guitar through modular and/or guitar-to-CV or MIDI conversion. Guitarist then does a "fuck it, I give up guitar" and goes all-in on synthesis. I've seen this happen to a couple of friends locally wink.


When I make music on guitar and when I make music on synths, the outcome are remarkably different. The difference in sound and tactility effects the composing style as well. Guitar being a more percussive instrument I tend to work more with the rhythm. If a midi-implication works well, I really can’t see anything but positive with it. There’s no way I’d choose between the who. I would need to start taking bloody piano lessons..hehe


Nah, you don't really need piano lessons - that's what sequencers are for, my friend. Or even just LFO modulation set up a particular way - I saw a synthesist friend play a gig once, and I made a comment about the sequence he used and he said, "No sequencer - just LFOs!"

Actually, what happened with my guitarist buddies that got into modular is they just keep their guitar and synth activities separate. One plays either guitar or synth onstage, but doesn't try to do both at once - he recruited another guitarist into his band to help fill out the sound. The other plays guitar (no synth) in a hardcore band, and synth (without guitar) in his solo synth project.

I'm still working out ways to incorporate live strings w/ electronics in a way that satisfies my personal aesthetics. Live sampling the strings w/ Octatrack, and letting the Octatrack sequencer manage another synth via MIDI, has been a rewarding route for me. Others have gone down this road before me, so they're my inspirations. Aside from the Octatrack guy, there's a local band that combined loud, heavily processed guitars with Electribes and other synths that inspired me; they were very much in the vein of My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive (when using synths), etc.
Northward
What you describe here GovernorSilver, is in the vein of what I would like to achieve with my solo work. I really haven’t seen anything that comfortable would replace a laptop with Ableton Live on stage. But of course I
there are ways like the ones you describe. Ableton have features that could make the sequencer / drums slave to the human playing but this is still too advanced for me. I have much to learn in this department. Would like to play the guitar and have the music and rhythm “breathe” with my playing as I like to sing slightly off beat. Strictly robotic drum old drum machines are also fun- but to control these live also points me to Ableton thus far.

I will check out the technique and gear you describe
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:
What you describe here GovernorSilver, is in the vein of what I would like to achieve with my solo work. I really haven’t seen anything that comfortable would replace a laptop with Ableton Live on stage. But of course I
there are ways like the ones you describe. Ableton have features that could make the sequencer / drums slave to the human playing but this is still too advanced for me. I have much to learn in this department. Would like to play the guitar and have the music and rhythm “breathe” with my playing as I like to sing slightly off beat. Strictly robotic drum old drum machines are also fun- but to control these live also points me to Ableton thus far.

I will check out the technique and gear you describe


That local band that I mentioned started with a laptopvbut quickly found that the volume level that they like to play at was causing problems with the hard drives in the laptops. This was in the early 2000s, before affordable solid state drives became standard equipment on laptops.. They replaced the laptop with a couple of Electribe grooveboxes, and started accumulating synths. They just played live instruments (guitar, analog synth) to the beat of the Electribes.

There are sequencers out there that have some kind of tap tempo support. Not exactly the same as listening to your guitar playing and trying to guess the BPM from that, but maybe close enough? Octatrack has a BPM detector, but you have to a record a loop into it first, and users have reported mixed results. It seems to work ok for me, but I haven't tested it with more than one external synth/drum machine.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:


That local band that I mentioned... ...They replaced the laptop with a couple of Electribe grooveboxes, and started accumulating synths. They just played live instruments (guitar, analog synth) to the beat of the Electribes.

There are sequencers out there that have some kind of tap tempo support. Not exactly the same as listening to your guitar playing and trying to guess the BPM from that, but maybe close enough? Octatrack has a BPM detector, but you have to a record a loop into it first, and users have reported mixed results. It seems to work ok for me, but I haven't tested it with more than one external synth/drum machine.


I have been researching this particular subject for quite some time. I’m sure this band did a lot of testing. I thought about the Electribe, but quickly found out that for what I’d like to achieve, it would just represent a poorer UI laptop, if you see what I mean. I’m not that into chopping up samples for rhythm. But purely as a custom drum machine it is interesting.

Having the beat detected by guitar playing is such a tall order it is bound to fail with today’s technology. But what do you think about a «simpler» solution to eliminate potential errors...e.g like that new Roland drum pad you could stomp with your foot. Let’s say the programmed drum machine goes on in song mode and you have the ability «tune» the beats/ midi sequence with a pad or midi sensor to the playing. And use one of those sequencers you mentioned with tap tempo support. Or indeed Ableton which has this ability through Max4Live.

At this point in writing I ask myself, why not just program all deviation of beats and swing and avoid all this nonsense..which is a valid question to ask. Well I guess I have an idea of more excitement and tension in the music with a drummer. Even Depeche Mode does this live. But all the drummers I know here are hopelessly into analog beats and banging those f**** cymbals that I mostly hate. So I need a drummer who likes drum machines (good luck finding one) -or a nice robot grin

I’m I complicating things unnecessary maybe..Should I just drop these thoughts and concentrate on programming the best humanised rhythm set possible. Maybe this technology is not as satisfactory at the moment as one would want to see. Like Midi-guitar apparently is at this stage...
I am in doubt. But I am certain that humanised drumming mostly is more exciting for a listener live. And for some strange reason Laptops are scrutinised as «cheating» while snazzy little boxes with computer capabilities for some reason are not... hihi

This tread has certainly taken a bit of a deviation... I hope not people find if messy and all over the place. But like I see it a guitar with a good vibrola system to bend notes is much like a drum machine you could swing or halt the beat with, If that makes any sense. Humans really love to break the grid on any machine. There are so many fun examples of this in music.
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:

I have been researching this particular subject for quite some time. I’m sure this band did a lot of testing. I thought about the Electribe, but quickly found out that for what I’d like to achieve, it would just represent a poorer UI laptop, if you see what I mean. I’m not that into chopping up samples for rhythm. But purely as a custom drum machine it is interesting.


The choice of the two Electribes - the synth one and the sampler one - whichever versions Korg was making in the early 21s century - was because of simplicity rather than seeking the full power of Ableton Live in a hardware incarnation. They were new to the whole electronic music making thing when they started their duo, having just broken up the previous band which had a human rhythm section.

They didn't stop with the two Electribes. They gradually added synth after synth over the years, and accumulated a nice collection of guitars - mostly Jazzmaster wink.

I miss this band - it was called Screen Vinyl Image. At their most active, they were regularly touring in our region of the US and booking other touring acts in the shoegaze genre to play in the DC area. The guy has continued on as a solo act, with a mix of Elektron, Korg, and MakeNoise boxes. The gal seems to have moved on. This is their Bandcamp:

https://screenvinylimage.bandcamp.com/
GovernorSilver
As for the meandering nature of the thread, looks like people are enjoying it, so no worries. Well, I"m enjoying it at least.

It's relevant to my interests now, in that I've been contemplating how I should develop my music as a solo act. Most of my activity has been of an experimental/avant garde nature, but I have some "normal" music under development too.
felixer
Northward wrote:
But I am certain that humanised drumming mostly is more exciting for a listener live.

absolutely! a certain random factor is always more exciting then some regular marching-along.
there are many ways in which you can achieve that. atm i'm very into arduino and i've made a very nice (even if i say so myself) random-clock generator. it has one knob for the regular time and one for the random extra time. easy to handle and to set for just a bit of variation or completely all-over-the-place.
pm me if you are interested. it fits nicely into a eurorack module or a small alu hammond box. working on one now to give my keystep sq a bit of life.
MRoyce
felixer wrote:
Northward wrote:
But I am certain that humanised drumming mostly is more exciting for a listener live.

absolutely! a certain random factor is always more exciting then some regular marching-along.
there are many ways in which you can achieve that. atm i'm very into arduino and i've made a very nice (even if i say so myself) random-clock generator. it has one knob for the regular time and one for the random extra time. easy to handle and to set for just a bit of variation or completely all-over-the-place.
pm me if you are interested. it fits nicely into a eurorack module or a small alu hammond box. working on one now to give my keystep sq a bit of life.


Deutsch Amerikanische Freundschaft got this right, Human Drummer & sequenced synths. I really like that combo but it requires the Drummer to relinquish some control.
felixer
MRoyce wrote:
Human Drummer & sequenced synths. I really like that combo but it requires the Drummer to relinquish some control.

well, i worked with a band once that used a clicktrack (mainly because the guitarist had very bad timing and would put the drummer off) and the drummer quite liked it. he didn't have to worry about if the tempo was right or maybe a bit too slow/fast.
i also worked with a drummer who could make a click seem slower or faster by playing slightly after or before the beat! that's a real art and i never found anybody else who could do that. pity because the guy is a bit of an asshole ....
lot's of bands play with a clicktrack. if only to sync with video/projection stuff.
you'll ever hear it in sq's but they do (eg rush and rammstein, even the stones(!) where the keyboard player is the guy who handles that). the giveaway used to be the headphones, but with in-ears everywhere i doubt you could tell nowadays ...
GovernorSilver
I think that's why some guitarists have been drawn to the Digitakt, because it's a sampling drum machine with trig conditions, which can add loads of variations to just one pattern.

But their hearts tend to get broken when they realize there's no song mode - pretty much have to run it in tandem with a sequencer that does have song mode, that can send the appropriate program changes at the right times.
felixer
GovernorSilver wrote:
I think that's why some guitarists have been drawn to the Digitakt, because it's a sampling drum machine with trig conditions, which can add loads of variations to just one pattern.

But their hearts tend to get broken when they realize there's no song mode - pretty much have to run it in tandem with a sequencer that does have song mode, that can send the appropriate program changes at the right times.

best one i found is the arturia beatstep. lots of good random possibilities!
pretty affordable too. and nicely/well made.
midi and trigger outs. plus two channels with cv for bass or something ...
but just a triggerbox. no audio. but loads os possibilities there. i'm running a bunch of euromodules. and an alesis D4 (for acoustic/realistic sounds).
GovernorSilver
My friend, the former member of that band, also has a Squarp Pyramid, to be his master sequencer and tie everything together to play songs. It's got some nice MIDI tricks for adding variations and stuf too.

My Korg M3 has a KARMA engine - there's an assignable paramter that controls the randomness of KARMA-generated drum patterns. An example patch has a slider for it - all the way down the drum pattern plays the same constantly, with no variation. All the way up, it's pretty much robot free jazz.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
I think that's why some guitarists have been drawn to the Digitakt, because it's a sampling drum machine with trig conditions, which can add loads of variations to just one pattern.

But their hearts tend to get broken when they realize there's no song mode - pretty much have to run it in tandem with a sequencer that does have song mode, that can send the appropriate program changes at the right times.


No Song-Mode=No go.
For a unit this new and expensive that's a pretty weird decision IMO.

felixer wrote:
best one i found is the arturia beatstep. lots of good random possibilities! pretty affordable too. and nicely/well made.


The Beatsstep seems to been implemented in every other setup on earth by the looks of pics and videoes online. Probably for good reasons.

I dunno.. latly I've been thinking about just free myself of the stigma for "computer on stage". By the end of the day all these units are (weaker) computers. And tell me what's really the difference between a pre-sequenced/pre recorded tracks in a DAW on the computer - and a hardware sequencer, sequencing instrumets live..? There is no nerve or human variations of neither besides the musicians playing to the tracks.
Maybe the difference is sound quality - hearing the different synths, modules and drum machines playing live to the slave... I don't know as I've never played these instruments live.

Foot switches for control is an option that needs exploring.

These are just thoughs that have been surfacing the last days as a have been preparing drum backing tracks for a little outdoor concert for my band (the drummer is on holiday). Ableton Live's Warp feature with "Groove" is such a fantastic, powerful tool for adding intreresting humanization or what have you to drum tracks /sequenced tracks. The Ableton midi editor kinda sucks. But to treat audio with plugins within the daw gives way more possibilities than I can dream of with my limited HD effects units playing live.

I've also been looking at a dedicated hardware Sampler like the current Roland SP-404A for playing back these prepeared tracks, just to eliminate crashes and minimize possible breakdowns. There is some grumbling in forums about the SP-404A, but it's all greek to me as I never owned a sampler.

I really appreciate all the ideas and alternatives you guys have brought here. Good stuff! This is a great forum for knowledge (without the attitude that's so tiresome in other musical forums).

This fall/winter I really want to play live with my electronic ambient pop stuff. Such a fun thing to look forward to and I have much to learn. Get that new guitar, work on effect choices, programme drums and sequenced synths, pads... I might seek an experienced programmer for some help glueing it all together. This is so common amoung the pros before/during touring. As a hobbyist I need allies. Probably many of you do the same.
felixer
Northward wrote:
all these units are (weaker) computers.

not really. they are 'dedicated machines' as apart from the 'universal machine' that a computer is supposed to be. and it seems people like that. where at least the controls mimic an older model (very clear with recorders aka tapemachines). i still call out: 'tape rolling' while we all know i went digital many moons ago ...
as for underpowered: this is the curse of consumer goods. it all just works, if nothing goes funny, or the wind is from the wrong direction, or whatever else can (and will) go wrong. i've seen disasters onstage with gear not working properly. but then i've seen tube/valve amps catch fire onstage (not part of the stageact!), i've musicians fall off stages on to hard concrete etc etc. just another day in hell. military imagery seems hip but i would want military quality in the sense of not failing under extreme conditions.
but alas, most is cheaply made (even the expensive stuff). but then it often is cheap to buy. so if your act really depends on 1 device: get a spare. put it in a nice case. and in the back of the truck. that's the way ...
and if everything was so good&true at home why did you come out?
you need an urge and a fighting mentality to attempt anything like a gig or concert. and it was never easy to do it. even in the old days, before elctrikery ...
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:

. And tell me what's really the difference between a pre-sequenced/pre recorded tracks in a DAW on the computer - and a hardware sequencer, sequencing instrumets live..?


This is by itself a big question that leads down a rabbit hole.

Longevity is one difference. My previous computer was a laptop - first the headphone output stopped working, then one of the fans, then the motherboard itself. Laptops have a short lifespan compared to hardware sequencers. There are people still using old Alesis MMT-8 sequencers for example - a product released in 1998. Quick, name an artist still playing gigs with a 1998 vintage laptop - eg. Compag 286 or an Apple Powerbook.

If you make the right choice of hardware controllers for your computer, you can pretty much reproduce the tactile experience of working with a hardware sequencer's physical controls. When people say they like hardware because of the tactile experience, software based folks can present a good counterargument... if they know what they're doing.

The most common problem I've observed with laptop-based performers is lack of attention to their live sound. They mix all their channels/tracks to dead center in the stereo field, often with reverb on top - so it all sounds like a muddy mess. They just have to learn what panning is, then pan different parts to different places in the stereo field to achieve more separation. Then learn to back off on the reverb instead of just throwing it on top of everything.
GovernorSilver
felixer wrote:
i've seen disasters onstage with gear not working properly. but then i've seen tube/valve amps catch fire onstage (not part of the stageact!), i've musicians fall off stages on to hard concrete etc etc. just another day in hell. ...


I agree with what felixer is getting at here - when you play live, shit can go wrong.

When you hit the stage, you want gear you can trust. If you really do trust a laptop onstage, then that's your personal choice. But a lot of experienced musos prefer hardware that is more sturdily built than a laptop that was not designed for a rougher environment than sitting at a coffee shop.

I have found that the more complicated a setup one has onstage, the more likely something will go wrong too. It helps to be honest with yourself about how simple/complicated your music might actually be. If you just wanna play rock and roll, do you really need an Ableton Live rig with 400 scenes like Pat Metheny?

Again, that's why my friends switched from laptops to Electribes plus a few synths. What do musicians other than the big budget, overly produced types want onstage? Something reliable, durable; and not too complicated. Stuff That Just Freaking Works. Classic examples of studio vs. stage, theorizing vs. practical, etc.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
felixer wrote:
i've seen disasters onstage with gear not working properly. but then i've seen tube/valve amps catch fire onstage (not part of the stageact!), i've musicians fall off stages on to hard concrete etc etc. just another day in hell. ...


I agree with what felixer is getting at here - when you play live, shit can go wrong.

When you hit the stage, you want gear you can trust. If you really do trust a laptop onstage, then that's your personal choice. But a lot of experienced musos prefer hardware that is more sturdily built than a laptop that was not designed for a rougher environment than sitting at a coffee shop.


Yes, this is very strong argument for more rugged gear than a laptop +all the software fuckups that do happen from time to time. In this sense it makes perfectly sense with 'dedicated machines' as Felixer puts it. Indeed a good fitting name for good UI robots specialized to a task. My point was within the "huminazation" factor, dedicated hardware sequencers/software is not as powerful as far as I'm aware of. That's why I'm conscidering the sampler option. Any love for the Roland sampler? I undersatng the Korg is a bit fiddly with all that menu diving.

I like the stricht grid based electro drums I grew up with in the 80s. All that 808 banging stuff I listen to in my youth is great. But for humanization I'm just not sure a HW thing can do that Ableton's groove feature. So many possibilities.


GovernorSilver wrote:

I have found that the more complicated a setup one has onstage, the more likely something will go wrong too. It helps to be honest with yourself about how simple/complicated your music might actually be. If you just wanna play rock and roll, do you really need an Ableton Live rig with 400 scenes like Pat Metheny?


Absolutly not. The point in my case isn't about me being very superadvanced or anything, it's PURELY about being able to handle/operate more alone or with very few musicians. And still be able to present human pulse. That's the challenge.

GovernorSilver wrote:

Again, that's why my friends switched from laptops to Electribes plus a few synths. What do musicians other than the big budget, overly produced types want onstage? Something reliable, durable; and not too complicated. Stuff That Just Freaking Works. Classic examples of studio vs. stage, theorizing vs. practical, etc.


You're both right. I need to check my options in HW. I guess I'm a bit cautious about learning yet another tool as I'm far from a clever programmer.

You've given me some good options. I wonder if Korg will update the Electribe with a bigger screen and hardisk.

The Beatstep is certanily great bang for buck. Choices choices.. hihi
GovernorSilver
Northward wrote:
My point was within the "huminazation" factor, dedicated hardware sequencers/software is not as powerful as far as I'm aware of. That's why I'm conscidering the sampler option. Any love for the Roland sampler? I undersatng the Korg is a bit fiddly with all that menu diving.


Pick any one feature, and I'm sure you can find an example of software being more powerful than hardware But I've always been more productive with gear that is "limited" in some way than Max For Live or other open-ended solution with limitless options. I think open-ended software only works for people who are wired the right way for it, and that's only a subset of the general community of musicians, I suspect. Another issue that complicates the software vs. hardware question is that some desired features may be accomplished faster in the software in question, and some may be done faster in the hardware. For example, there was an old discussion on Loopers Delight comparing Ableton Live and Octatrack. The Octatrack user mentioned the OT's Flex Machine; what it is, and a bit about how it works. The Ableton user admitted it would have taken him hours to implement something like it in Ableton.

The Roland SP404 has been a longtime rival to the Korg Electribe sampler. I see that Roland has release quietly released SP-404A, the very latest iteration of that venerable line, to very little fanfare from themselves or anyone else. My friends in Screen Vinyl Image used a SP-404 in tandem with their Electribe sampler and Electribe synth; plus their arsenal of analog keyboards. Interesting that they added ACB (synthesized) drum sounds to the SP-404A, as well as a TR-8 style sequencer.

For more money there's the TR-8S though one shouldn't get too excited about the "S" which stands for sampler. It's an updated TR-8 with ability to load user samplers, not Roland's attempt at replicating the full power of a sampling drum machine like the MPC 2000 series. I don't know how powerful the pattern variation features are - if they're as sophisticated as the trig conditions on Elektron sequencers or the Ableton features you mention. Haven't heard any serious complaints from TR-8S users or dramatic pronouncements about selling it.

Of course if you get the TR-8S or other TR- box, you'll want another box for bass lines or whatever, as Roland, unlike Korg, has all but abandoned the all-in-one groovebox concept that the Electribe still embraces.
GovernorSilver
GovernorSilver wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).


I actually only heard about Shelton when a local guitarist I know got one, This is his signature model - a variation on the Galaxy Flite:

https://www.facebook.com/sheltonelectric/videos/1629036663880962/

I believe he plays it with The Messthetics as well as on his own. .


The guitar is featured in a video made by Earthquaker Devices Japan.

Northward
[quote="GovernorSilver"]
GovernorSilver wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but oooks like they’re using mastery tremolos and bridges. Haha. They’re phenomenal (for the twentieth time).


I actually only heard about Shelton when a local guitarist I know got one, This is his signature model - a variation on the Galaxy Flite:

https://www.facebook.com/sheltonelectric/videos/1629036663880962/

I believe he plays it with The Messthetics as well as on his own.


Really nice takes on traditional guitars. Price tag flies over my and many a head though.. I really want a Telecasterish guitar with Mastery tremolo and bridge.

BUT...
I have to say, that ridiculous relicing that's become so popular...is BEYOND lame IMO. Why not just buy a bloody new guitar. Take it on the road. Treat it like a tool. Be sloppy. Bang it about a little when you play (drunk with metal picks). Lean it against whatever wall so it falls down now and then. Don't be too careful. Use sharp belt buckles and Motorhead rings on your fingers. Lend it to your teenage AD/HD nephew and his garage band. Then,- in a few years time the natural patina is there and it'll feel just like a nice pair of worn out jeans. And nobody will call you a twat for paying extra money for someone to abuse your new guitar..

Sorry, this has relic thing has annoyed me over the years. I just had to take a stab at ridiculing the whole thing hihi hihi hihi

As easy it would be to just buy a nice jazzmaster, I cannot get on with that offset look and that huge headstock.

I am daily on the look for something nice to show up.
GovernorSilver
I've never seen Anthony play a relic'd guitar, now that you mention it. He seems to handle all his guitars with great care.

While he does not play a Tele-style Shelton, he does have a real Telecaster that he brings to country gigs. For surf rock gigs and occasional use on rockabilly gigs, he's got this odd 4-pickup guitar - some kind of 1960's design.
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
I've never seen Anthony play a relic'd guitar, now that you mention it. He seems to handle all his guitars with great care.

While he does not play a Tele-style Shelton, he does have a real Telecaster that he brings to country gigs. For surf rock gigs and occasional use on rockabilly gigs, he's got this odd 4-pickup guitar - some kind of 1960's design.


I wasn’t referring to this player, but Shelton guitars whom really do embrace the whole relic thing on their website. So I guess people love that sort of stuff. I just think it’s kinda dumb. But that’s just a personal observation and hardly very interesting. Some of the ideas, suggestions and experiences that’s come up in this thread is. And I’m happy about that.

The player seems like a cool dude who explores his own style and sound. Very interesting and cool features he had implemented on his signature model.

There are some really sought after quality Telecaster-like models from the 80’s and 90’s from Yamaha, Fender, G&L, ESP, that was made for the ‘high hair’ era of rock. They get stupid high prices on eBay in quite rough condition. I really don’t get why they don’t reissue these. Especially Yamaha that have no reason to be as anal as Fender on the whole ‘everything original BS’.

Take Yamaha Line6. They could really make something special, but are so careful and conservative with their models. I really wish I bought more cool instruments back then when they were on offer. The market has become so boring over the years. Just so much more of the same IMO. And the cool boutique stuff is super expensive.
GovernorSilver
I'm not a fan of the relic thing myself, but I guess Shelton and others offer that option because people pay money for it. I have consistently heard that it is very difficult to earn a living as a small guitar maker, so I cannot fault them for offering options and services that will increase their income. Oh yeah, I still like Shelton's Tele-style guitars the best out of their lineup.

I usually end up scratching all my guitars doing something dumb and it does piss me off when it happens - but that's how it goes sometimes.

I hear ya on Yamaha. They have a history of making special products then giving up on them too early - CS-80, UD Stomp, the Tele-model Pacifica (still played by Mike Stern), etc.
TXBDan
I've been out of guitar for almost ten years. wow that flew by. The itch is back strong. I've always played a Les Paul in bands that valued volume over talent.

Back then i though Teles were the most hideous guitars imaginable. I never would have guessed i'd get tele fever a decade later! I don't know what's come over me. It's just a badass simple raw no-bullshit guitar. I'm hoping to pick up a Baja Tele tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how this thing works out.
commodorejohn
TXBDan wrote:
Back then i though Teles were the most hideous guitars imaginable. I never would have guessed i'd get tele fever a decade later! I don't know what's come over me. It's just a badass simple raw no-bullshit guitar.

I never found them interesting back when I was first getting into guitar because I always mentally associated them with country, which is not my thing (at least not the modern shit.) But once I actually tried a semi-decent Tele clone I was surprised by just how versatile and playable they can be. It really is just a simple, straightforward, solid design - one of those rare occasions where a thing is just created right from the get-go in a state of fundamental rightness.

Well, minus the lack of a truss rod wink
Northward
TXBDan wrote:
I've been out of guitar for almost ten years. wow that flew by. The itch is back strong. I've always played a Les Paul in bands that valued volume over talent.

Back then i though Teles were the most hideous guitars imaginable. I never would have guessed i'd get tele fever a decade later! I don't know what's come over me. It's just a badass simple raw no-bullshit guitar. I'm hoping to pick up a Baja Tele tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how this thing works out.


I hear ya! The first time I saw a Telecaster in RL as a boy, -I though it looked just weird.. and kinda goofy. It didn't appeal to me at all. A bit later I discovered that bands like The Clash and The Police used them and I took notice. Now after playing different styles of what I thought to be my favorites, there is just no other electric that feels so comfortably playing than a Tele. And the look has grown on me. From Country to Punk, it just works!
Not to crazy about that much loved twang, but that's cool for country. And a fuzzed up single coil bridge PU kills it.

Like you guys say; it's design was just so bang on from birth. No wonder it's shape so desired and tweaked to suit different styles.

Still on the hunt for my special one, but there is something primitivly beautiful about a typical Country blonde Telecaster with a white pickguard. I love mine (though it's old and super heavy, but that could probably be fixed).
GovernorSilver
This showed up on my social media feed:

https://www.sunfieldmusic.com/products/tuffdogtl

The official Fender Custom Shop version of the Haggard Tele sells for almost $6000 US. I don't know where this cheap clone is made (China, Korea, Indonesia or ???).
Northward
GovernorSilver wrote:
This showed up on my social media feed:

https://www.sunfieldmusic.com/products/tuffdogtl

The official Fender Custom Shop version of the Haggard Tele sells for almost $6000 US. I don't know where this cheap clone is made (China, Korea, Indonesia or ???).


Prices and website smells like Chinese cheapo to me. Then again I may be wrong. Been checking a few unknown brand Teles lately myself. I'd happily buy if I knew they where made at the same factory as good quiality brands in Korea. Not fussed about the big brand logo really, but I'd like decent quality instrument.

Heard of these?
https://www.revelationguitars.co.uk/

http://www.gilmourguitars.com/musicchina2016/view_catalog.html
TXBDan
I picked up the Baja Tele over the weekend. It's pretty sweet. I really like the neck and the longer scale compared to my Gibson. It's also much louder and resonant unplugged.

Amped, it is bright though. Clean, the bridge pickup need some tone knob action. The other positions are really nice. Distorted the bridge pickup has nice bite. My amp is also EL84 based which tends to be pretty bright.
felixer
commodorejohn wrote:


Well, minus the lack of a truss rod wink

and minus the second (neck) pu. and with too few screws to hold the scratchplate. yeah, leo learned a lot from his first guitar. but at least he learned. contrary to his collegaes at gibson who still think this is the 50ies, except for the workmanship ... although i do see prices come down on those les pauls.
PapaLazarou
The carbon fiber fretboard on Parkers is not to be fucked with
Chevron87
I recently got a Fender Ed O'Brien Strat and I love that guitar. It has a trem and all the usual Strat tones, humbucker in the bridge and a sustainer!
commodorejohn
So my local music store (which appears to have one of every stringed instrument native to the western world, but nary a synth in sight...welcome to northern California!) has an attached coffee shop wherein they hold local music events on the regular. One of the things they do is a monthly acoustic-guitar gathering expressly open to persons of all ages/skill levels, and I've been thinking that'd be a fun way to get out a bit more and potentially improve my sub-mediocre playing ability.

Only problem is, I don't actually own an acoustic guitar (never have liked the way standard deep-body flat-top acoustics feel under my arm, and the wide-ass necks they all seem to come with are the primary reason I never actually got into guitar as a kid.) Thusly, I've been pondering for some time now about picking up an archtop electric, provided it can kick out a passable amount of sound when unplugged.

Anyway, I dropped into (eugh) Guitar Center on a whim a week ago (my new workplace is just down the road from one) to see if there was anything quasi-affordable that might suit my purposes. I'd been eyeing the Ibanez Artcore hollowbodies, but once I actually tried one I really didn't care for the playing feel, and it was a little too quiet unplugged to pass as an acoustic. But one thing they did have hanging on the wall was a used Epiphone Emperor II, which appears to be a sorta budget-line ES-175 kind of thing with a less wicked cutaway. Pulled that down and gave it a try, and it was everything I was looking for - playable, deep enough to really be properly audible unplugged without being uncomfortable, and it sounds fantastic through an amp as well (though yikes! they're not kidding about feedback on hollowbody electrics!)

So I went home and put in for the same thing at Sweetwater so's I could pay in installments and not feel dirty about giving money to GC wink Even got a little off the price with a floor model that has but a couple minor scratches on it.



Just riddle me this, Batman: why do luthiers building hollow-body instruments always put gorgeous sexy flame maple on the back and use light-grained, unfigured stuff like spruce on the front?
khakifridge
Maple is like steel: hard and rigid. Spruce is all wobbly: perfect for getting that acoustic guitar sound to you. Not a consideration for a solid-body electric. But, yeah, I get your point. Shame to hide the pretty wood. sad
cretaceousear
Nice looking guitar there. Very like some of the Gretsch lineup.
I've wanted a semi for myself and have the same awkwardness with the size of acoustics you do.
It's too late now you've bought it, but lots of semis have a central piece of wood glueing the front and back together to minimise feedback.
Northward
Yey!
The thread lives on
Rockin' Banana!

Congratulations wiyh that new jazz guitar commodorejohn Classic looking indeed.
Ibanez had quite a lot of new guitars at NAMM2019. Their solid bodies look hideous (IMO) but definetly seem to have it's big scene in the world.
Their semi hollowbodies Artstar line I've always found interesting and gets alot of praise amoung players of differen styles. A new classic Zebrawood one makes me think of oldies cowboys with Gretches..
Too bad the cool pink one is only on their cheap line. I'd get that if it was an Artstar. I have no idea if these feedback as much with their thinner bodies.


commodorejohn
cretaceousear wrote:
I've wanted a semi for myself and have the same awkwardness with the size of acoustics you do.
It's too late now you've bought it, but lots of semis have a central piece of wood glueing the front and back together to minimise feedback.

Yeah, that's a useful feature if you want to play with relatively high gain, but I already have a nice little Tele clone for that. I wanted a full hollowbody primarily because it can also double as an acoustic (relatively, anyway - it's not as loud as a proper acoustic when unplugged, but much moreso than any of the semi-hollow designs I've heard.)
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