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Acidic sound: M303 or any osc + filter?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Acidic sound: M303 or any osc + filter?
Andy137
Which modules can provide acidic sound. I know there's a couple of oscillators with integrated filters (AcidLab M303 and DinSync 303). Maybe there are some alternatives?
luketeaford
I have gotten nice acid squelch lately out of a DUSG/VCFS. It's at the end of this video: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj2HqzyA6SR/

There are some sweet spots on an MMG that can do it too, but I don't have any examples handy.
Countcowden
The din sync is two separate modules. You can use the intellijel Polaris filter and a variety of osc to get it e.g intellijel shapeshifter or Erica pico voice.
dbeats
a) You need a single saw wave and square wave oscillator. It only has a minor impact on the final acid sound, IMO, so any basic osc should do.

b) You need a filter with cv control over the resonance (see below) and some nice self-oscillation. This is a huge matter of taste. A good affordable basic solution is MI Ripples. But the sound of the VCF303 is the best, IMO.

c) You need a sequencer with constant time portamento/glide and with programmable accent output.

d) You need to patch the accent to shorten the envelope decay and increase filter resonance and volume at the same time. This can be a bit of patching, that's why the VCF303 or M303 or x0x heart are so handy - they have such an accent behaviour already included.
rayultine
My x0xheart is pretty dang acid. Don't know how I lived without it.
Andy137
Thanks for suggestions. And what about Erica Synths Pico VCF1?
nickgrys
Andy137 wrote:
Thanks for suggestions. And what about Erica Synths Pico VCF1?


I agree with what dbeats said about a basic oscillator with saw and square waves, and the sequencer with slide. I'm not sure that cv control over the resonance is necessary. Maybe if you're specifically trying to emulate the 303 sound. For general acid, I've gotten fine acid lines using my Erca Pico VCF1.
dbeats
nickgrys wrote:
I agree with what dbeats said about a basic oscillator with saw and square waves, and the sequencer with slide. I'm not sure that cv control over the resonance is necessary. Maybe if you're specifically trying to emulate the 303 sound. For general acid, I've gotten fine acid lines using my Erca Pico VCF1.


Accents are essential for 303 emulation, but I agree with you that resonance cv is probably much less important than filter cutoff cv and vca decay cv. Then you can use many basic resonant filters, including the cheap Doepfer 18dB.

BTW: I did a youtube demo/tutorial some time ago that includes the accent effect of the acid sound, using a similar setup:
miraso
Many filters can get acidish, but they would never be mistaken for a 303

I have the DinSync OSC/VCF 303 combo and a metropolis and it can get pretty darn close to the real thing.
natureclubcassettes
i'll put another vote for MMG. love the resonance and versatility of it. plus makes a killer bass drum when not being used as a traditional filter
Jasonic
I like to plug the Intellijel Rubicon into a Wasp Filter to get some Acid sounds. I also use the Stepper Acid for my acid bass line sequences, it totally rocks. The Korg MS-20 mini can get some nice acid sounds too. Basically a saw or square wave running into a LP filter, and using an envelope controlling the filter and a VCA. Or you can have separate envelopes, one for the filter, and one to control the VCA.
Some S+H random modulation on the filter cutoff at the same time is always fun.
moremagic
dbeats wrote:
a) You need a single saw wave and square wave oscillator. It only has a minor impact on the final acid sound, IMO, so any basic osc should do.

b) You need a filter with cv control over the resonance (see below) and some nice self-oscillation. This is a huge matter of taste. A good affordable basic solution is MI Ripples. But the sound of the VCF303 is the best, IMO.

c) You need a sequencer with constant time portamento/glide and with programmable accent output.

d) You need to patch the accent to shorten the envelope decay and increase filter resonance and volume at the same time. This can be a bit of patching, that's why the VCF303 or M303 or x0x heart are so handy - they have such an accent behaviour already included.
do remember that if youre lacking some of these particulars, a vcf/vca feedback loop can give voltage control over resonance, and a 2nd sequencer can be clocked simultaneously and its output mixed to provode accents.
the equal time portamento seems to be the biggest trick afaict. i wonder if the time compensation on the wmd/ssf mini slew could be handy here, just theoretically... this is the bit that sends many running off to buy a dedicated acid sequencer it seems seriously, i just don't get it
dbeats
moremagic wrote:
do remember that if youre lacking some of these particulars, a vcf/vca feedback loop can give voltage control over resonance, and a 2nd sequencer can be clocked simultaneously and its output mixed to provode accents.


Yeah, indeed. I often use Metropolis for acid bassline sequencing and have to add the accents externally, sometimes randomly or at least periodically shifting. That's why, contrary to popular believe, the Metropolis is NOT a great acid sequencer, IMO. Edit: And the slide time knob is not even a real constant time portamento either!

moremagic wrote:
the equal time portamento seems to be the biggest trick afaict. i wonder if the time compensation on the wmd/ssf mini slew could be handy here, just theoretically... this is the bit that sends many running off to buy a dedicated acid sequencer it seems seriously, i just don't get it


Yes, this is tricky, and from my understanding the mini slew time comp only modifies the behaviour of the "shape" knob, so that the curves keep their rise time through different shapes, but not through different notes. A better subtitute for a constant time slew would be a LPF.
bemushroomed
If you want to make something that even resembles acid the sequencer is equally, or perhaps more important, to get the right sounding slides and accent.. my x0x heart sounds way more acid than the m303, though i did absolutely like the m303, very nice round sound, but did not sound like a tb303, it can't even do many of the acid signature sounds, x0x heart absolutely can.

stepper acid is a good sequencer and can make you create acid with any sound source - while it wont sound like acid with a tb303 it will make you think "this sounds like acid music" because its has that groove.
kwaidan
bemushroomed wrote:
If you want to make something that even resembles acid the sequencer is equally, or perhaps more important, to get the right sounding slides and accent.. my x0x heart sounds way more acid than the m303, though i did absolutely like the m303, very nice round sound, but did not sound like a tb303, it can't even do many of the acid signature sounds, x0x heart absolutely can.

stepper acid is a good sequencer and can make you create acid with any sound source - while it wont sound like acid with a tb303 it will make you think "this sounds like acid music" because its has that groove.


As bemushroomed notes, a proper sequencer makes all the difference in the world, and the M303 sounds far more acidic when paired with its brother the Autobot than when used with a CV/MIDI converter or an old school 16 step sequencer like the Oberkorn.

Actually, the Autobot is big fun because you can bang on the keys in realtime and create massive havoc.

The Stepper Acid also looks like fun.
spukhaft
dbeats wrote:
A good affordable basic solution is MI Ripples.


I have a Ripples, and it would be dead last if I were going for acid. Much too clean and linear. My vote would be an A-124 Wasp.
MindMachine
ASol VCO Sub/Doepfer A-103 18 db VCF/Doepfer A-142 VC Decay/Multi Channel Sequencer... gets pretty squelchy of not acidic.
ngarjuna
bemushroomed wrote:
If you want to make something that even resembles acid the sequencer is equally, or perhaps more important, to get the right sounding slides and accent...

This x1000. You can tease a squelch out of a great many resonant filters. Acid is all about the sequencer behavior.

For faking the deformed square wave try running an attenuated copy of the pitch CV to PWM.
autopoiesis
any sequencer with glide and a secondary trigger or modulation lane for accent + a dinsync vcf303 would get you most of the way there because it emulates the envelope, accent, filter, and vca behavior of a 303. same deal with the mam mb33 in desktop format. I understand these key elements to be a simple decay envelope (with adjustable decay time) for the filter, a fixed duration, but longer, decay envelope for the vca, the filter sound and slopes of course, and the idiosyncratic way the accent affects the envelopes and resonance. this is explained here : http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/303-unique.html

if you only have the filter sound down (intellijel Polaris, Manhattan SVVCF would be good options for just that) and not these other peculiarities, the sequences will come out sounding more sh101 than tb303.

the quirky square wave can be closely enough approximated by mixing 90% square 10% saw, I would guess.
Mikeyg3k
I went thru this same journey and finally arrived at the most practical conclusion for what I wanted: using a midi out module to sync the bassbot TT303 v2.
With the XOX heart and then both dinsync modules I just wasint getting the sound and behavior and 303 character that I wanted. Problem solved now.
(This is in no way dissing the Xoxheart or dinsync modules becaise probably if I knew more about patching I could have got closer to what I wanted) it’s just that now I understand the value of having an all in one box to get what I want to hear.
vromr
I just got x0x-Heart, forgoing x0xBox, figuring I could wire something together using Reaktor Blocks outputted via Expert Sleepers ES3.
Any thoughts on feasibility or enthusiasm for this approach?
Dragonaut
It works for me. As long as you’re not computer shy the ES stuff is great.
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