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Rene and Shapeshifter
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Rene and Shapeshifter
insoul8
Ok, I’m very confused. Hopefully I’m just being an idiot. But when I try and use my Rene to sequence my Shapeshifter, I can’t get it to track at all. When I use my Metropolis on the Shapeshifter, all works fine. The kicker is when I sequence my DPO with the exact same setting on Rene, everything tracks well. Metropolis also works fine with the DPO. What the hell am I missing? Where is the actual problem? I wanna say it is something with the Shapeshifter as the voltages out of the Rene look fine. But why does it seem to work fine with the Metropolis? Help!
insoul8
Actually, Rene seems to work ok with the Shapeshifter when I put the qcv through a buffered mult first. Is this a known issue I just wasn’t aware of? What’s the cause? Could it be the input or output impedance?
insoul8
Can someone else at least try this who has both of these so i can know if it's just specific to my units or not?
gentle_attack
Are you using Stackables?

There has to be some other variable casuibg the problem if the Shapeshifter is tuned and calibrated correctly, which it sounds like it is.

Is there a big range difference in the octaves covered by Metropolis vs Rene?
jfb
I have both and can try this when I get in from work today. I'm making a note so I don't forget.
insoul8
gentle_attack wrote:
Are you using Stackables?

There has to be some other variable casuibg the problem if the Shapeshifter is tuned and calibrated correctly, which it sounds like it is.

Is there a big range difference in the octaves covered by Metropolis vs Rene?


The Shapeshifter seems to be calibrated correctly and is also evidenced through it working fine with the Metropolis. I am not using stackcables for the testing and I have tried multiple regular cables to ensure it isn't a cable problem.

For testing the Rene (set to chromatic), i set 4 of the knobs outputting 0v, 1v, 2v, 3v respectively. On the Metropolis i set it to chromatic scale and moved the slider from C0 to C3 and verified the voltages using my O'Tool. Both were very close and seem to be well calibrated. I can't explain it. Though I have heard of using a buff mult to solve other issues like with the Pico Logic and Make Noise modules before. I wonder if something similar may be happening here?
insoul8
jfb wrote:
I have both and can try this when I get in from work today. I'm making a note so I don't forget.


Thanks!
insoul8
Got it sorted. Walker from Make Noise got back to me and of course he had the answer. Thanks!

Make Noise wrote:
The Shapeshifter has an unusual design on its pitch input jack which causes the behavior you are experiencing. Any kind of isolating of the signal will fix it, such as you have done with the buffered mult. As far as I know, the Shapeshifter is the only Eurorack VCO that behaves this way.
jfb
insoul8 wrote:
Got it sorted. Walker from Make Noise got back to me and of course he had the answer. Thanks!

Make Noise wrote:
The Shapeshifter has an unusual design on its pitch input jack which causes the behavior you are experiencing. Any kind of isolating of the signal will fix it, such as you have done with the buffered mult. As far as I know, the Shapeshifter is the only Eurorack VCO that behaves this way.


Glad they got it sorted. I made a note for any future use in my own system.
insoul8
jfb wrote:
insoul8 wrote:
Got it sorted. Walker from Make Noise got back to me and of course he had the answer. Thanks!

Make Noise wrote:
The Shapeshifter has an unusual design on its pitch input jack which causes the behavior you are experiencing. Any kind of isolating of the signal will fix it, such as you have done with the buffered mult. As far as I know, the Shapeshifter is the only Eurorack VCO that behaves this way.


Glad they got it sorted. I made a note for any future use in my own system.


Can't believe I never noticed it before. i guess i'm using buff mults to distribute pitch more than i realize.
pzoot
What does “any kind of isolating of the signal” mean? Why isn’t it necessary with your metropolis then? seriously, i just don't get it
insoul8
pzoot wrote:
What does “any kind of isolating of the signal” mean? Why isn’t it necessary with your metropolis then? seriously, i just don't get it


Good question. I don't really know. Maybe someone with a more technical background can explain? Or perhaps someone from Intellijel?
leonvanbokhorst
Well, this is odd... I have Rene, DPO, and Shapeshifter. I did the same experiment and everything tracks perfectly fine. Both pitch CV's of the Shapeshifter and both the 1/VOct on the DPO from the same quantized sequence on the Rene.

Note: Rene is housed in a skiff with a separate PSU. I'm no expert, but something tells me that this might be of influence.

Maybe anyone with more technical skills can elaborate on that?

insoul8 wrote:
Can someone else at least try this who has both of these so i can know if it's just specific to my units or not?
leonvanbokhorst
pzoot wrote:
What does “any kind of isolating of the signal” mean? Why isn’t it necessary with your metropolis then? seriously, i just don't get it


As far as I know 'Isolating the signal' means that the module doesn't alter the signal when it enters the circuit. Done by placing an opamp at the input effectively isolating the input signal from the rest of the circuit. But isn't that standard procedure? I can't imagine a company like Intellijel getting this wrong.

No expert here, but this is my understanding smile

Puzzled why the Metropolis has no problem with it hmmm.....
insoul8
leonvanbokhorst wrote:
Well, this is odd... I have Rene, DPO, and Shapeshifter. I did the same experiment and everything tracks perfectly fine. Both pitch CV's of the Shapeshifter and both the 1/VOct on the DPO from the same quantized sequence on the Rene.

Note: Rene is housed in a skiff with a separate PSU. I'm no expert, but something tells me that this might be of influence.

Maybe anyone with more technical skills can elaborate on that?

insoul8 wrote:
Can someone else at least try this who has both of these so i can know if it's just specific to my units or not?


My Rene is actually in a Make Noise Skiff as well and my Shapeshifter is in a Doepfer case. So very similar setups i take it. Do you know if you have the older version of the Shapeshifter? Mine is the newer one with the new face plate. And I have the older, shiny faced Rene.
yghartsyrt
I have the same problem - intellijel got back to me. They said Walker is right and i should get a buffered multiple.


edit: Faith restored: Got an email from danjel. I just leave my old post here, so the thread doesn't appear to be broken ...

that's all i got as a response. Kind of disappointing.

Since it is now to be decided, which module should go: Renè or Shapeshifter. I think Shapeshifter will go, just because of the attitude.
insoul8
yghartsyrt wrote:
I have the same problem - intellijel got back to me. They said Walker is right and i should get a buffered multiple. that's all i got as a response. Kind of disappointing.

Since it is now to be decided, which module should go: Renè or Shapeshifter. I think Shapeshifter will go, just because of the attitude.


Why would either go unless you aren't using them? Both are fantastic modules imo and a buffered mult is something everyone should have anyway if you ask me. How else can you send quantized pitch around your system?
yghartsyrt
never had the need for a buffered mult, but yeah doesn't hurt to have one - you are right. Usually I don't use one CV source for tracking multiple oscillators, so that's the reason I never had one in the first place
leonvanbokhorst
insoul8 wrote:
Do you know if you have the older version of the Shapeshifter? Mine is the newer one with the new face plate. And I have the older, shiny faced Rene.


My Rene is brand new (matt-black and gold). Shapeshifter is a couple of months old and has the current faceplate. seriously, i just don't get it
insoul8
yghartsyrt wrote:
I found the answer not very polite. A "sorry, but it seems we did something unusual here and this will cost you the nuisance of getting an additional module" would have helped.


Yea, i agree with that. At the very least, that info should be easy to find on their products page or something for people like me having strange issues with it.
insoul8
leonvanbokhorst wrote:
insoul8 wrote:
Do you know if you have the older version of the Shapeshifter? Mine is the newer one with the new face plate. And I have the older, shiny faced Rene.


My Rene is brand new (matt-black and gold). Shapeshifter is a couple of months old and has the current faceplate. seriously, i just don't get it


Perhaps the issue is my older Rene then? Otherwise, I don't know why you wouldn't have the issue especially after it was confirmed to exist from both Make Noise and Intellijel.
yghartsyrt
insoul8 wrote:
leonvanbokhorst wrote:
insoul8 wrote:
Do you know if you have the older version of the Shapeshifter? Mine is the newer one with the new face plate. And I have the older, shiny faced Rene.


My Rene is brand new (matt-black and gold). Shapeshifter is a couple of months old and has the current faceplate. seriously, i just don't get it


Perhaps the issue is my older Rene then? Otherwise, I don't know why you wouldn't have the issue especially after it was confirmed to exist from both Make Noise and Intellijel.


The same problem exists with the Shapeshifter and Make Noise Pressure Points
yghartsyrt
insoul8 wrote:
yghartsyrt wrote:
I have the same problem - intellijel got back to me. They said Walker is right and i should get a buffered multiple. that's all i got as a response. Kind of disappointing.

Since it is now to be decided, which module should go: Renè or Shapeshifter. I think Shapeshifter will go, just because of the attitude.


Why would either go unless you aren't using them? Both are fantastic modules imo and a buffered mult is something everyone should have anyway if you ask me. How else can you send quantized pitch around your system?


Plus I don't have any room in my cases anymore. Which means, something needs to go in order to make these two modules work together. Not liking the idea
6667
You should probably just get rid of both of them lol

If you're just flipping a coin and basing which module you keep based on the attitude of a customer service rep, you probably weren't really using either module to any meaningful extent anyway
yghartsyrt
6667 wrote:
You should probably just get rid of both of them lol

If you're just flipping a coin and basing which module you keep based on the attitude of a customer service rep, you probably weren't really using either module to any meaningful extent anyway


LOL.

Incredible how well you know me. Who has even asked you? Now off to my ignore list.
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