||3trinsrgb+1c and Vidiot, Visual Cortex, expanding etc
Ive spent the last months trying to learn as much as possible about video synths, while using Lumen and Vsynth74. I now want to get my hands dirty and will start with a 3trins, as I have only used selfcontained software, I still don't fully understand how sync and genlock works when working with several analog devices. My question is geared towards expansion... At this point, I am almost fully turned into the 3trins (Ive been wanting it for several years now, but never felt confident enough about what it was actually doing), but Im concerned about its expandability and how it could integrate with future purchases. From what I can understand, the only element I could use from the 3trins in a bigger system would be its 3 oscillators? Does this mean it would be similar to getting 3 cadet vcos? About sync and genlock, I guess at this moment the best ways of getting into video synth would be either Vidiot, 3trins or Visual Cortex. Can any of these 3 pieces expand from one another? As in, if bought the 3trins and wanted to get a Vidiot later, would it all sync and work together? I know there is a 3trins adapter, Im counting on adding that.
Im just thinking about how to get started with analog video devices and where my money will be bestly invested. I already have quite a decent audio eurorack system, so I am not thinking about going all the way down the rabit hole, so would like to just have a small but effective video setup.
Thanks in advance, and excuse the nooooobness here! br> br>
| br>hi I'm at about the same point as you... not used vsynth74 though
but I have read a huge amount on this so here goes
there's an lzx adapter for the 3trins which allows you to convert the signal from the 3trins to rgb, otherwise you will only get monochrome (and sync if you use the green input)
the general opinion for first module seems to be:
if you are expecting to spend a (small) fortune in the (near) future get the visual cortex
otherwise the vidiot is a great starting point
both the visual cortex and the vidiot can be modulated from your eurorack - attenuation advised (range is 0-1v)
waveshapers/folders are very useful for modulating your modulation
to produce vertical lines you need a video range vco
whilst both the vidiot and the visual cortex can process and generate video, the visual cortex is slightly more biased towards processing video and vidiot towards generating
I think I am slightly biased towards the vidiot - but that's probably quite a long way off - I'm looking at a video mixer next I think though - dual MacBooks running Lumen and praxisLive - being modulated via midi by the eurorack - then add a vidiot and a camera that's not a webcam
there are other things that are very interesting to check out too though...
if I were in the US I'd be interested in a blind pauper circuit bent v4 br> br>
| br>Hey! Thank you so much for such a good response!
Never heard of Tachyons+ but the videos Im checking are amazing! (but god, why do all these people have so archaic websites!)
Im going to go get some more info from Tachyons. Visual Cortex does seem like the beginning to something much bigger, which I am not that interested
Thanks a lot! br> br>
| br>it really depends on your desired outcome as well
do you like the glitch
are you a feedback biscochito
do you want to draw/paint/create shapes
are you in for extreme color processing
do you more want to process//distort/multiply/etc. video stream of some kind
do you want to just have a way to colorize old black and white videos
are you just wanting a playground that can do just a bit of most things
do you have a video mixer of some kind? this can really open up door to understanding some of the underlying concept of video synthesis (but since you have already dipped into software many of those concept should be familiar to you)
do you already have any other audio eurorack or CV/MIDI gear?
defining your goal will really help with the outcome
I would still consider myself to be brand new to all this so I'm sure there is a lot I'm missing
I myself love extreme colorization while my wife is currently more into shape generation br> br>
| br>that's also a great answer
what about some beginner suggestions for categories of "what you want to do with your video synth":
glitch -> tachyons+/big pauper
feedback -> video camera and a mixer/vidiot
shape generation -> vidiot/visual cortex/3trins
colour processing -> vidiot/visual cortex/3trins
process distort multiply -> vidiot/visual cortex
general and want/hope/need to control the gas -> vidiot
general and do not care about gas -> visual cortex
you want HD and generative -> Critter and Guitari ETC
you can/want to diy & you want to spend almost money whatsoever -> CH/AV / broken vga cable / dirty mixer
you can/want to diy & you want to spend money -> lzx cadets/ various gieskes (3tins/oscillatopscope/schele mixer)
you want to buy european -> gieskes (3tins/oscillatopscope/schele mixer)
if you have a software video synth -> video mixer and camera/vidiot/vidiot and camera/visual cortex
other suggestions/corrections welcome
my guess is that almost certainly none of the above suggestions will lead you out of the rabbit hole once you are in br> br>
| br>Ok now we are talking!!
Great great great responses, thank you sooo much!
I reckon at this point I am interested on trying to get a bit of everything (would nt ot be nice to have a video "groovebox"? I feel Vidiot kind of brings that concept to the table). But definitly feedback and video processing is something I really like, as well as creating shapes.
Im in europe and I do like some DIY, so I reckon Gieskes seems like no brainer, a while back I was talking with a friend about how cool it would be to get a 3trins, an oscillatoscope and the mixer all build into one box.
I do have a lot of CV and midi gear (mpc, electribes, eurorack, reaktor, ableton, etc), and would definitely look into building some sort of hybrid setup, or at least some way of sending some of the controls Im using to generate and play the music, into modulating the video.
Soooo I really think Im going to get 3trins DIY next week once I get my paycheck, might go also with the mixer. That way I can start to get myself into analog video playground (from what Ive seen, 3trins is very similar to Lumens architecture sans the effects). And later on I will add a Vidiot.
I see both Vidiot and 3trins have video inputs, so both could work for feedback and video processing/colorizing.
Regarding video mixers, as I see they are appearing a lot here, from what I have seen, there doesnt seem to be any sort of "normalization" in terms of what options they have. I mean, I have been looking at a bunch of different models, and except for having several video inputs, they all seem to offer different things (crossfades, some have effects, some only sum or add video...), should I be looking at something specific? I have also seen some circuit bent mixers that seem a lot of fun, but as I say, I feel video mixers don't follow a specific format in the way audio mixers might do (as in audio you get a bunch of options for inputs, you have your buses, your eq, and maybe some efx), so they feel more like an instrument on their self instead of a tool "for glueing"...
OOOh sorry, Im loosing focus here! Hahah Im just very excited with the answers you have been giving me (im of the "list" kind).
I guess my next question is about mixers: will any video mixer do the job (looking into panasonic wj or gieskes one), or I should look at video mixers as individual instruments with each one having different offerings and options?
I am assuming it all works within the composite video world, and if it doesnt, adaptors will always do the work, right?
And lastly, do you have any work uploaded I could check? I am still trying to find what I like haha (I am 3D artist so I am tired of working with maya and cinema4d, so I am really enjoying everything feedbacky, glitchy, colorful and psychedelic, everything thats different from the digital video world)
Once again, thank you sooo much! br> br>
| br>I ve just learned about vector rescanning
I want it all br> br>
| br>video mixers, yeah they're a bit like instruments, you really want to find one you gel with I think - and has enough inputs - this is difficult - if you get a 2 channel mixer and want to add another 2 channels you either need to upgrade to a 4 channel mixer or get 2 more 2 channel mixers, because 2, 2 channel mixers will only give you 3 channels
the schele mixer from gieske's is crosseyed (schele is dutch for crosseyed) in other words it's wonky and may not be what you want
there's a really simple diy mixer that's effectively some rcas, some wire and a pot - google "karl klomp dirty video mixer" & you'll find it...
panasonic and edirol/roland appear to be the most commonly available, reasonably priced video mixers on ebay...
if you are up for diy - they can be circuit bent, but are notoriously likely to die on you this way...
vector rescanning is pretty cool isn't it... vectrex game system monitors seem to be the shit, but you pay for them - at least in europe they are quite pricey, didn't check US prices
most things will use composite, so out from the computer to an adapter -> the cheap grey under 20€ ones on ebay/amazon are the ones you want for VGA -> composite - apparently they get a bit warm though
if you'd like to see what I'm doing then check out my instagram - it is (just) lumen, praxisLive, processing3 (all software), an external webcam, the webcam on the mbp and an iPhone plus eurorack modular for sounds and the newer stuff (last 11-12 posts) is modulated using a doepfer a-192-1 to convert cv to midi cc -> which I'm using in both lumen and praxisLive. Was modulating with BeatStepPro, but was difficult with out a tripod, but now I have 2, one for the webcam and one for the iphone, i will add it back into the mix
my next (video) purchase will almost definitely be a video mixer - then probably a cheap video camera and (another) tripod (which may be near simultaneous) but that's after a computer repair - so I have 2 MBPs running lumen/praxis/processing and controlled by the eurorack and BSP feeding the mixer - and at least one more eurorack module (so maybe 2-3 months away, but may be sooner) br> br>
| br>hey! great work, Im really enjoying some of the more glitchy things
On saturday I did a live visual set using Vsynth and a midi controller and it worked out great! I feel I might have the "pattern/generative" base covered for the time being. So I might go for feedbacky/glitchy stuff...
Im looking at video mixers, and also glitchy video devices atm, but everything seems equally cool haha and the lack of documentation or even a standarization in devices is making me anxious br> br>
| br>digging this conversation
i am familiar to a degree with everything being discussed but i am short on what blind pauper is? A Module?
I am using currently a vidiot+ETC+panasonic analog mixer plus i loop in the ipad running TouchVIZ for multi-layered image creation and sync to audio br> br>
| br>ah yes - typo above, fixed!! br> br>
| br>ah came here to add that the new memory palace looks like it might make a good starting point too... br> br>
| br>I highly recommend starting with the Vidiot. It’s packed with lots of functions, so there’s no pressing need to expand. It interfaces beautifully and easily with modulation from a Eurorack system—the inputs all have attenuversion and offset. If you ever decide to expand, you can use tap directly into the core functions with other LZX modules. It genlocks/syncs to external video sources.
The 3TRINS is a fun project if you can build it yourself, but it’s nowhere near as flexible or capable as the vidiot. You can only patch functions internally, and not between LZX modules. The oscs can’t be directly patched to other modules—so not like having 3X Cadet VCOs. The tiny jumper cables make live performance extremely difficult. The rgb output board is a nice, but limited option.
The Edirol/Roland V4 mixers are inexpensive and have tons of functions—you can do a lot with just a V4 and a vidiot. Here’s an example of using the two together.
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