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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

The Moog One
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author The Moog One
dubnspace
From a post over on GS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudswimmer View Post

Ok this is copied directly from my personal email from my rep who is a senior rep, and personal friend of mine:

Oh, it's cooler than that! So glad I can actually spill some details for you now.

It's polyphonic, and comes in 8- and 16-voice versions. (Moog has not only set us up as the earliest dealer with stock (around mid-August), but we'll have an exclusive until they launch with other retailers in September. And they've also promised us a number of low-serial-number units (2-10) on each unit, though this does run an extra $500 (and also gets you a letter from Mike Adams, and a signed photo by the techs who built it). Sounds incredible, and check this out!

• 3 VCOs per voice
• 3 part multitimbral - 3 synths in 1
• Knob per function
• 4 LFOs per synth with easily assignable modulation
• Arp and sequencer (per synth)
• Clock sync
• Assignable CV ins and outs
• Lots of i/o for routing synths and effects
• Eventide reverbs built in
• Unrestricted number of presets

Oscillators
create complex waveforms

Noise
• Dedicated envelope for transient shaping

Filter
• Stave variable filter AND Moog Ladder Filter
• HP, LP, BP or notch
• link filters together for ganged sweeps
• assign sources to SVF ladder or both in the mixer

Envelope
• 3 envelopes (amp, filter, and assignable)
• easily assignable mod matrix

Sequencer and Arp

Effects
• True bypass effects
• effects per synth and a master effects bus
• 2 assignable macro controls - customizable per patch
• Vocoder
Modulation
• Easily repeatable mod mattrix routings
• 4 LFOs - 1 button destination routing
• Fine tune and ccreate complex modulation via transforms
• Easy assign performance controllers
• XY pad for expressive control

Not too shabby, eh? Admittedly, I'm always pretty impressed when Moog comes by, but this was probably the biggest shock I've ever had at seeing their products early under an NDA…and the toughest to keep private until we could talk about them! I figured you'd appreciate knowing about it as much as anyone, since you've been involved in MI retail for so long, and have probably seen most things under the sun to date.

Still not sure when we'll have it up on the website, but we are taking orders, if you're interested. 8-voice version is $5999.00, and the 16-voice version is $7999.00. I've got a little wiggle room for you, but a bit less than usual…they really don't want us deep-discounting these due to anticipated demand, obviously.
denuir
Wow, this sounds super interesting. Out of my price range, but I’ll bet I drool over some videos. A poly Moog - they’ve been listening!
rowsbywoof
Wait, built in Eventide reverbs? That seems weird, right? I can see them doing a spring like the Grand Mother, or even doing their own algorithm if they were going digital, but using an Eventide reverb seems like a crazy cross over. I mean, I'm all for it. This thing with Blackhole is going to be nuts.

Way out of my league, too, but I can't wait to hear what people do with it. If... You know... If it's real of course wink
ludotex
hmmm.....
SynthBaron
"...due to anticipated demand..."

While it does sound neat, I'm not sure what planet they're living on if they think something like that is going to fly out the door at those retail prices. Maybe they're going to start offering 60-month payment plans for them.
dkcg
I bet we see more Model15's for sale, so they can get the polyphonic Moog they really wanted.

$6k for 8 voices....$8k for 16 voices almost seems like a deal. A deal that's still out of reach for me.

Nostalgic rich prog rock folk will buy them. Studios might buy them. Hans Zimmer will buy 2. Joe Synth rocking out at home with their DFAM and Mother32 won't run out and buy them, but that's not the market they're going for.

Not Honda owners...but Bentley owners.
estin
LOL April Fools a little late this year? I hope they are almost done with the 8 voice theremin as well.
SynthBaron
I hope it's velocity sensitive.
sduck
SynthBaron wrote:
I hope it's velocity sensitive.


That and midi are extra.
bwhittington
Is this a clone of Elton John's version?

realtrance
I can't imagine this is real.

But then, it's getting harder and harder to tell what is, these days, so anything is possible.

The concept doesn't really fit in with Moog's history as a company, as well as everything else they've done has; so, I remain skeptical until further (tangible) notice from Moog themselves.

It's too Frankensynth to be Moog.
SynthBaron
realtrance wrote:

It's too Frankensynth to be Moog.


At least it doesn't have a low-pass gate.

Or maybe it should.
dumbledog
Yeah well my uncle works at Nintendo and he says Bob Moog and Dave Smith are both playable characters in the new Smash Bros
commodorejohn
$6000 base price. Yeah, I'll start digging through my couch cushions right away.
dkcg
dumbledog wrote:
Yeah well my uncle works at Nintendo and he says Bob Moog and Dave Smith are both playable characters in the new Smash Bros


Can I unlock Don Buchla?
GovernorSilver
Yeah, the hell with state variable filters!!! twisted

Give me stave variable filters!!!
estin
GovernorSilver wrote:
Yeah, the hell with state variable filters!!! twisted

Give me stave variable filters!!!


Nice catch, didn't state variable used to mean you could manually or by CV sweep through the range of filter types? I feel like these days State variable usually just means multi mode with a switch.
realtrance
Stave variable filters are the latest thing, made of real wood, from decommissioned Czech beer barrels.

Gives you that foamy, woody tone.

Synthbaron: ooooh, low pass gates, yum, yeah why doesn't Moog ever do those?

Think I'll go pick up a Bastl Kastle or three while waiting for this mystery to resolve itself....
dumbledog
dkcg wrote:
Can I unlock Don Buchla?


he's DLC along with suzanne cianni and frogger
SynthBaron
realtrance wrote:
Stave variable filters are the latest thing, made of real wood, from decommissioned Czech beer barrels.


I hope they were harvested using a dolphin-safe method.
GuyaGuy
I hope it's true just so people will STFU about wanting to see a Moog poly. Of course they'll complain about the price...And ignore the Memorymoog...
starthief
estin wrote:
LOL April Fools a little late this year? I hope they are almost done with the 8 voice theremin as well.


lol
leftbracket
GuyaGuy wrote:
I hope it's true just so people will STFU about wanting to see a Moog poly.

I would appreciate that.

It's been quite a while since I last "felt" traditional polyphony, but I'm quite intrigued by this spec sheet. It sounds like a highly playable instrument.
dubonaire
estin wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
Yeah, the hell with state variable filters!!! twisted

Give me stave variable filters!!!


Nice catch, didn't state variable used to mean you could manually or by CV sweep through the range of filter types? I feel like these days State variable usually just means multi mode with a switch.


No, it just means you can get multiple filter types out of one cascading filter topology.
SynthBaron
Demo video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
leftbracket
SynthBaron wrote:
Demo video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Ah, to be a kid on the internet in 2008 again...
GuyaGuy
leftbracket wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
Demo video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Ah, to be a kid on the internet in 2008 again...

Of course back then you didn't have to watch an ad before the video...
SynthBaron
GuyaGuy wrote:
leftbracket wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
Demo video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Ah, to be a kid on the internet in 2008 again...

Of course back then you didn't have to watch an ad before the video...


DECEASEDRODEN+ MASTER CLASS
Zymos
If it was literally "knob per function" and 3 part multitimbral, then it would need 3 knobs for each parameter....
milkshake
Major synth boner.
radiokoala
I must say 'One' seems slightly off a name for the 8-voice polysynth: I guess it's something subtextual, with 'of a kind' omitted – in which case I'd expand on the idea and call it OOAK, so that you could read the news and say something like:

— The Moog OOAK?! Well.... OOOOOAKAY. This is fun!

PS: Worked hard on this joke, if it didn't turn out that well, don't blame the radiokoala, blame his sense of humour.

Cheers. smokin'
hamildad
<enters Music retailer>

"Hi there, I am here to buy the new Moog synthesier"

"the One, sir?"

"At that price, I should bloody think so!!"





hihi
radiokoala
It's peanut butter jelly time!

Oh, man... This has inspired another one, which is:

“Handmade in Asheville, NC, Moog the One is a synth like no other: too good to stop at just the one. For convenience of our customers, we came with a mounting solution similar to our 2-tier and 3-tier Mother-32 stands, but designed to accomodate two or two+ our flagship keyboard synthesizers.

Carefully tailored to the needs of aspiring bedroom musicians and assiduous YouTube content providers, the One-Two-Three Moog ecosystem makes music production a breeze; both semi-pro and full-time knob twiddlers would be able to have at their disposal 32 to 48 simultaneous synth parts, enough for making the most elaborate bloopscapes and Cage-inspired musical pieces for as many as three unplugged five-octave keyboards.

Regardless of the number of their Grammy nominations and victories, each electronic musician would instantly feel the degree of increased flexibility and sonic purity made possible courtesy of hand-matched transistors and lead-free solder to contain 0% of banned in EU constituents (such as vactrols) the One-Two-Three ecosystem provides when compared to other popular production solutions such as TPB edition of the Fruity Loops and banjo.”


Cheesy! whistlin'
Panason
It manages to be even more expensive than I anticipated (5k) but also has more bells & whistles than anticipated.

I think I'd just get an OB6 and keep the change for a car. Or probably just wait for a new Behringer poly from the Manchester MIDAS team with that juicy Mofat filter.
Muzone
forget the synth architecture, I wanna see the wardrobe accessories It's peanut butter jelly time!
Synthsense
I know of a colleague from my country who is on the list for a limited edition run for the begginning of august. Even more expensive than the standard, of course.

I hate him so much! twisted
Jason Brock
radiokoala wrote:
I must say 'One' seems slightly off a name for the 8-voice polysynth


I figure they named it that just so they can have some clever marketing tag lines, like "The One you've been waiting for..."
Or, "You've been asking for a Moog Poly, here's The (only) One we're gonna give you."
Zymos
Anyone who would pay an extra $500 for a picture of the folks that built it, has, by definition, "too much money".
Dcramer
Better come with a cape... lol
SynthBaron
They should make the extra fee 20% of gross income derived from talent's use of equipment in a special six month influencer exclusivity period.
realtrance
I can't get out of my head the picture of the person who has to spend eight hours a day hand-matching transistors:

"Nope. Nope. Almost. Well.... Nope. Nope. Aha! Nope. If only. Maybe with that other one.... Nope. Nope. Nope."

Hey, the more I think about it... the more I think I'd like that job! wink
radiokoala
Sounds like a real trance that job, innit?..

spinning
SynthBaron
realtrance wrote:
I can't get out of my head the picture of the person who has to spend eight hours a day hand-matching transistors:

"Nope. Nope. Almost. Well.... Nope. Nope. Aha! Nope. If only. Maybe with that other one.... Nope. Nope. Nope."

Hey, the more I think about it... the more I think I'd like that job! wink


The Memorymoog used CEM3340's, so it wouldn't be surprising to find out Asheville was the one who committed a big enough order for Curtis/OnChip to put them back in production for this new synth.

But even the original Minimoog used matched transistor IC's, and the Voyager uses MAT04's. Could you even get a polysynth to reliably tune up with hand matched transistors? Maybe, but paying someone to do it is probably going to cost you 10x more than just buying matched pair IC's.
SynthBaron
New iPhone rumors:

Snail
Hmm, might have to sell the Bentley for that...!
huffnPuff
If this thing is real then wow, if it isn’t then wow.
WaveRider
that photo seems real to me... the design seem very plausible.... very Moog.
geoffmar
Guinness ftw!
huffnPuff
Assuming it’s true then it’s a great move for them.

I don’t care about keyboard instruments so I’m not tempted, but I have warm fuzzy feelings for the company and I love seeing them come out with products that pay homage to their established tradition and new products that aim to set new ones.
GovernorSilver
SynthBaron wrote:
New iPhone rumors:



Looks faimliar! hihi
astrodislocate
Quote:

Oscillators
create complex waveforms


What does that even mean? Complex because they can do FM? Because there's 3 and you can layer them together? Because they can be harmonically rich shapes like saws or squares?
SynthBaron
Doubtful, but:

commodorejohn
It would be perversely hilarious if people finally got the Moog poly they'd been asking for all these years and it was a goddamn parameter-access design with membrane buttons.
GuyaGuy
commodorejohn wrote:
It would be perversely hilarious if people finally got the Moog poly they'd been asking for all these years and it was a goddamn parameter-access design with membrane buttons.

And it was VA.
And actually was $5K.
And had minikeys.
SynthBaron
From GS:

"Voltage Controlled Oscillator with Variable Core for Electronic Musical Instrument and Related Methods"

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160335998A1/
SynthBaron
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/12/02/moog-new-secret-synthesiz er-will-look-very-different/

https://ask.audio/articles/new-moog-synthesizer-coming
nectarios
The price lol
huffnPuff
nectarios wrote:
The price lol


Eh?
This is what the average Macbeth monosynth goes for. The model D goes (went?) for $3500, the GRP A4 is 3800 Euros. How much did the S1 sell for at the time?
GovernorSilver
SynthBaron wrote:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/12/02/moog-new-secret-synthesiz er-will-look-very-different/

https://ask.audio/articles/new-moog-synthesizer-coming


Probably the only legit info posted on this thread.

Seems like anybody can say anything on GearSlutz and Synhtopia and Matrixsynth will breathlessly pass it on as if it were real news.
SynthBaron
Supposedly at least the front panel circuitry (you can zoom in by clicking on the high res photo link below to get labels on the PCB for the functions of the parts):

https://i.imgur.com/2gOiwfx.jpg

solusarpus
well, those pics seem pretty legit...wow. an updated memorymoog indeed.
SynthBaron
Notice the "triangle" pots for each oscillator, which probably adjusts the variable core shape discussed in the patent I linked earlier. And also the individual OLED screens for each oscillator, presumably to view (at a minimum) the funky waveshapes you're dialing in.
solusarpus
I’m assuming that the large screen is the xy pad (ala animoog?), as well as a more general menu screen... I doubt they would include a voyager style xy pad as well as the pictured screen unless the one shown isn’t touch sensitive...
flashheart
WaveRider wrote:
that photo seems real to me... the design seem very plausible.... very Moog.

Really, you think so? That's so clearly a 3D rendering of a Memorymoog with a Seaboard attached. Or I've probably missed the sarcasm smile

GovernorSilver wrote:

SynthBaron wrote:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/12/02/moog-new-secret-synthesiz er-will-look-very-different/

https://ask.audio/articles/new-moog-synthesizer-coming


Probably the only legit info posted on this thread.

Seems like anybody can say anything on GearSlutz and Synhtopia and Matrixsynth will breathlessly pass it on as if it were real news.

Indeed
Dave Peck
SynthBaron wrote:
Supposedly at least the front panel circuitry (you can zoom in by clicking on the high res photo link below to get labels on the PCB for the functions of the parts):

https://i.imgur.com/2gOiwfx.jpg



Wow, that's pretty revealing. Where on earth did you find this? Anything else at that source?
huffnPuff
I can’t see the full size image and read the lables for some reason, but the PCBs and the rendered product image don’t have much in common?

In which case the accompanying description and price estimates don’t mean much either?
SynthBaron
I think people are getting confused: the Memorymoog 2.0 image is an obvious joke/fantasy Photoshopped by someone, the PCB's and matching product description seem to me to be real at this point.
SynthBaron
Dave Peck wrote:

Wow, that's pretty revealing. Where on earth did you find this? Anything else at that source?


Linked via EquipmentHussies:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bkj9Ea5gHQP/?taken-by=synthjam
Dave Peck
huffnPuff wrote:
I can’t see the full size image and read the lables for some reason, but the PCBs and the rendered product image don’t have much in common?

In which case the accompanying description and price estimates don’t mean much either?


The zoom didn't work for me either, the first time I viewed it, but then it worked after that ( !? ). Try it again.
rowsbywoof
This thing is going to be ridiculous.
huffnPuff
thumbs up
Dave Peck wrote:
huffnPuff wrote:
I can’t see the full size image and read the lables for some reason, but the PCBs and the rendered product image don’t have much in common?

In which case the accompanying description and price estimates don’t mean much either?


The zoom didn't work for me either, the first time I viewed it, but then it worked after that ( !? ). Try it again.
Rex Coil 7
... a new Moog poly ... yea right ...

PYJAMAGROOVE
And you idiots laughed at me Mr. Green Mr. Green
analog workstation
ludotex
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
And you idiots laughed at me Mr. Green Mr. Green
analog workstation


thumbs up
Rex Coil 7
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
And you idiots laughed at me Mr. Green Mr. Green
analog workstation
Man, the Universally Educated really ganged up on you in that thread. I find it entertaining and even humorous when the naysayers and ever-so-smart folks insist on how bad a given idea is and do their best to shoot it out of the sky. People that DREAM are the ones that end up blazing new pathways.

As far as the cost of this ~Moog~ ... if it is actually real, and it is actually going to be built, a $5k to $7k sticker would be fine (clearly above my own station, but that isn't my point). I mean, people are willing to wait in line and camp out in the parking lot waiting for the store's doors to open just to obtain the latest version of a stupid smartphone. The Dave Smith polys sell for half that, however this ~Moog~ would be a highly coveted creation.

Look at how expensive that silly 5 octave Voyager is ... $5k for a performance monosynth? Really? And yet, they sell. Modestly, but still.

I paid over $5k for a new loaded Kurzweil 2600 76 key back in 2003 .... didn't bat an eyelash.

So as long as this ~Moog~ (yes, I am mocking it until I see tangible evidence of it's existence) is designed right, and is NOT some membrane switch slathered nonsense, and "LOOKS like $5k" ... it will sell. There are some people in this very subforum with more than that in just the sequencer section of their modulars.

Membrane switches are for microwave ovens and kitchen appliances (they're easy to clean) ... they're not for top drawer poly synths.

If the likes of Sweetwater offer 24 month same as cash financing, it will surely sell.

Again, as long as alllllll of the right check-boxes are ticked ... we got us a Moog poly. That's a tall order though ... I hope the new design team is up to task. And the damned thing best have a FATAR TP/9 in it!! As well as at least a dozen or more CV I/O jacks, TWO expression pedal inputs, and TWO footswitch inputs. And these are minimum requirements!

MIDI controller capability would also be a must-do.

Now ... if only it's a real, actual, tangible item ... we're good.

cool Rexola.
realtrance
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
And you idiots laughed at me Mr. Green Mr. Green
analog workstation
Man, the Universally Educated really ganged up on you in that thread. I find it entertaining and even humorous when the naysayers and ever-so-smart folks insist on how bad a given idea is and do their best to shoot it out of the sky. People that DREAM are the ones that end up blazing new pathways.

As far as the cost of this ~Moog~ ... if it is actually real, and it is actually going to be built, a $5k to $7k sticker would be fine (clearly above my own station, but that isn't my point). I mean, people are willing to wait in line and camp out in the parking lot waiting for the store's doors to open just to obtain the latest version of a stupid smartphone. The Dave Smith polys sell for half that, however this ~Moog~ would be a highly coveted creation.

Look at how expensive that silly 5 octave Voyager is ... $5k for a performance monosynth? Really? And yet, they sell. Modestly, but still.

I paid over $5k for a new loaded Kurzweil 2600 76 key back in 2003 .... didn't bat an eyelash.

So as long as this ~Moog~ (yes, I am mocking it until I see tangible evidence of it's existence) is designed right, and is NOT some membrane switch slathered nonsense, and "LOOKS like $5k" ... it will sell. There are some people in this very subforum with more than that in just the sequencer section of their modulars.

Membrane switches are for microwave ovens and kitchen appliances (they're easy to clean) ... they're not for top drawer poly synths.

If the likes of Sweetwater offer 24 month same as cash financing, it will surely sell.

Again, as long as alllllll of the right check-boxes are ticked ... we got us a Moog poly. That's a tall order though ... I hope the new design team is up to task. And the damned thing best have a FATAR TP/9 in it!! As well as at least a dozen or more CV I/O jacks, TWO expression pedal inputs, and TWO footswitch inputs. And these are minimum requirements!

MIDI controller capability would also be a must-do.

Now ... if only it's a real, actual, tangible item ... we're good.

cool Rexola.


This post verges on politics, with your initial comment dripping with envy and hatred of people who are educated (and who make over 70% more than those without it, as a result, by the way, if that's all that matters to you about education.....).

Back to the Moog One: there's still a useful argument to be made over the superiority of analogue mono synths over polysynths; you can get a Grandmother today, if you want, for far less, and be happy.

Also, if Voyager new prices are really freaking you out, there's a used on on Reverb for no more than the cost of a new Prologue, so have at it:

https://reverb.com/item/13331489-minimoog-voyager-electric-blue-editio n

No reason to get your skin off about all this. waah
SynthBaron
With the crazy variable core waveshaping, 3 envelopes (and I wonder if you can reroute the noise/percussion EG to make it 4 envelopes) and built in digital reverb, this thing is going to make great Buchla farts.
Rex Coil 7
realtrance wrote:

This post verges on politics, with your initial comment dripping with envy and hatred of people who are educated (and who make over 70% more than those without it, as a result, by the way, if that's all that matters to you about education.....).

Back to the Moog One: there's still a useful argument to be made over the superiority of analogue mono synths over polysynths; you can get a Grandmother today, if you want, for far less, and be happy.

Also, if Voyager new prices are really freaking you out, there's a used on on Reverb for no more than the cost of a new Prologue, so have at it:

https://reverb.com/item/13331489-minimoog-voyager-electric-blue-editio n

No reason to get your skin off about all this. waah
Oh puh-LEEZE .... politics? Hatred? FUKING SERIOUSLY? ME? HATRED? You know nothing about me or who I am. I've had a direct hand in saving the lives of FIVE PEOPLE in my life as a first responder (three of them were actually attempting to kill my dumb ass, at that ... even so I still saved them from certain death after they'd just attempted to kill me). Hatred? WTF Jones? Get over yourself.

The snark was aimed at KNOW IT ALLS!!!!!!!! Y'know? People that think they know everything (just ask them, they'll tell you ... by the way that is another joke aimed at know it alls). Not actually educated people. If you're so educated you'd have caught that. (That was ironic sarcasm, by the way ... I guess I'll have to hand-hold you through my comments so you don't get your undies in a knot). It's just humor, man. Politics ... HA! ... what name will you throw at me next? Racist? HAAHAA!!!! This is just hilarious!!

lol

I've been an employer for over 35 years .... I've hired more people with sheepskins that didn't know which hand to wipe their ass with than I can recall, one didn't know how to read an analog clock! I'm not kidding! They don't last long, not under my employ anyhow (I insist on performance, dedication, work ethic, and a willingness to work hard beyond the 5:00 o'clock bell). The business I operated for my family before I opened my own business produced monthly gross sales exceeding $350k .... not one of the fourteen people working there had extended educations .. in fact several didn't even have High School diplomas. So there was no higher education within the staff (including the owners ... which were myself, my mother and father). They have no college education (in fact my father quit school in the 9th grade).

I'm the only person in the entire operation that had any kind of extended education (and it wasn't obtained until after I left the business, it wasn't even relevant to business anyhow). Six years in the military as a nuclear weapons security team leader. I have a degree in criminal justice, and nearly one in dealing with and recognizing the mentally ill. But that education came after I ran the family business ... which we started from zero in 1982 (just after I earned my Honorable Discharge from the military) and within ten years built it up to $350k monthly gross sales, sometimes even hitting $500k by 1991. All during a recession, at that. So don't lecture me about how better off one automatically is with a degree hanging on the wall. Business instincts and a sharp eye for opportunity will get one just as far, if not farther.

So don't even think of talking down to me about this. Watch riding that high horse, it's a long way down when it bucks you from the saddle.

Good god, my remarks were about simply poking at the people that think they know everything in the universe (so to speak) .... hence my use of the phrase "Universally Educated" ..... NOT NOT NOT .. SO not "University Educated". Read. Comprehend. Understand. It helps to prevent having to change feet every time one opens their mouth (of which I am the undisputed champion) .... that's self mockery by the way ... just in case you take that wrong too. It's referred to as showing humility.

meh d'oh!

EDIT: And you missed another thing ... I wasn't COMPLAINING about the prices of synths ... I WAS SUPPORTING IT!! Good god man ... put your prejudices aside, read the words, comprehend the meaning.
lootacow
I can tell you that it IS real, and a prototype was put out MONTHS ago. They're just really good at keeping things hush hush. That's all I have to say about that.
realtrance
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
realtrance wrote:

This post verges on politics, with your initial comment dripping with envy and hatred of people who are educated (and who make over 70% more than those without it, as a result, by the way, if that's all that matters to you about education.....).

Back to the Moog One: there's still a useful argument to be made over the superiority of analogue mono synths over polysynths; you can get a Grandmother today, if you want, for far less, and be happy.

Also, if Voyager new prices are really freaking you out, there's a used on on Reverb for no more than the cost of a new Prologue, so have at it:

https://reverb.com/item/13331489-minimoog-voyager-electric-blue-editio n

No reason to get your skin off about all this. waah
Oh puh-LEEZE .... politics? Hatred? FUKING SERIOUSLY? ME? HATRED? You know nothing about me or who I am. I've had a direct hand in saving the lives of FIVE PEOPLE in my life as a first responder (three of them were actually attempting to kill my dumb ass, at that ... even so I still saved them from certain death after they'd just attempted to kill me). Hatred? WTF Jones? Get over yourself.

The snark was aimed at KNOW IT ALLS!!!!!!!! Y'know? People that think they know everything (just ask them, they'll tell you ... by the way that is another joke aimed at know it alls). Not actually educated people. If you're so educated you'd have caught that. (That was ironic sarcasm, by the way ... I guess I'll have to hand-hold you through my comments so you don't get your undies in a knot). It's just humor, man. Politics ... HA! ... what name will you throw at me next? Racist? HAAHAA!!!! This is just hilarious!!

lol

I've been an employer for over 35 years .... I've hired more people with sheepskins that didn't know which hand to wipe their ass with than I can recall, one didn't know how to read an analog clock! I'm not kidding! They don't last long, not under my employ anyhow (I insist on performance, dedication, work ethic, and a willingness to work hard beyond the 5:00 o'clock bell). The business I operated for my family before I opened my own business produced monthly gross sales exceeding $350k .... not one of the fourteen people working there had extended educations .. in fact several didn't even have High School diplomas. So there was no higher education within the staff (including the owners ... which were myself, my mother and father). They have no college education (in fact my father quit school in the 9th grade).

I'm the only person in the entire operation that had any kind of extended education (and it wasn't obtained until after I left the business, it wasn't even relevant to business anyhow). Six years in the military as a nuclear weapons security team leader. I have a degree in criminal justice, and nearly one in dealing with and recognizing the mentally ill. But that education came after I ran the family business ... which we started from zero in 1982 (just after I earned my Honorable Discharge from the military) and within ten years built it up to $350k monthly gross sales, sometimes even hitting $500k by 1991. All during a recession, at that. So don't lecture me about how better off one automatically is with a degree hanging on the wall. Business instincts and a sharp eye for opportunity will get one just as far, if not farther.

So don't even think of talking down to me about this. Watch riding that high horse, it's a long way down when it bucks you from the saddle.

Good god, my remarks were about simply poking at the people that think they know everything in the universe (so to speak) .... hence my use of the phrase "Universally Educated" ..... NOT NOT NOT .. SO not "University Educated". Read. Comprehend. Understand. It helps to prevent having to change feet every time one opens their mouth (of which I am the undisputed champion) .... that's self mockery by the way ... just in case you take that wrong too. It's referred to as showing humility.

meh d'oh!

EDIT: And you missed another thing ... I wasn't COMPLAINING about the prices of synths ... I WAS SUPPORTING IT!! Good god man ... put your prejudices aside, read the words, comprehend the meaning.


It's cool, I get it -- PM'd you and I think we're fine. Back to having a beer (or wine, or a Corpse Reviver or whatever works where you are) and enjoying the imminent weekend! smile

I missed the pun (Universally vs. University), apologies for that.

Back to the Moog One.... if it's real.... damn. we're not worthy Money's not easy for me, either, but the hard work that goes into something like this is likely going to be worth it, if you keep the instrument over the long haul. I would not be hesitant to reward all that effort, IF I can.
Panason
"Hatred" on the internet is basically the same as "mild criticism"...

Quote:
people with sheepskins
hmmm.....
Sir Ruff
lootacow wrote:
I can tell you that it IS real, and a prototype was put out MONTHS ago. They're just really good at keeping things hush hush. That's all I have to say about that.


Good.

But let's not become all GS with rampant sniping and griping about a product that technically doesn't even exist yet, yeah? Pages and pages about nothing but presumed price points and who can afford and who can't is dull and pointless.
PYJAMAGROOVE
Shayt...Look that I broke a thread again. Sorry!Dead Banana

I was honestly incredibly surprised how much negativity my analog workstation idea met from the people who presumably love hardware synths to bits. That's why I abandoned that discussion tough I love to be alone vs the world...Some people are simply great specialists in narrow fields so they find combining lots of different elements at once problematic.
My job however consist of conceiving a unique vision and then making sure that by bringing all the specialized bodies it can be a functional realization. Technical difficulties are stones in the cathedral. A part of it.

Back to Moog One I am very thrilled that it is happening (and I know that it is for sure). I hope that it will be a big success and will make Moog kilos of dollars. If they will add poly aftertouch to it...that would be nanners
huffnPuff
wtf?
Rex Coil 7
I want everyone to know that Member *realtrance and I have worked out our misunderstandings between one another via very adult and very mature private messages.

He has earned my respect, and I see him as a person of integrity.

Funny how open, solid, grown ass adult communication can make that happen, y'know?

cool
Jason Brock
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
...worked out our misunderstandings between one another via very adult and very mature private messages.


I read that as massages.
Panason
Member massaging in private, I see. eek!

Let's get back to arguing about synths we can't afford! hyper
realtrance
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
I want everyone to know that Member *realtrance and I have worked out our misunderstandings between one another via very adult and very mature private messages.

He has earned my respect, and I see him as a person of integrity.

Funny how open, solid, grown ass adult communication can make that happen, y'know?

cool


I will second that. I've enjoyed Rex's posts here for a long time, and have even more respect for him now. I appreciate people with character, and also people who are patient with my half-sanity. smile We're good, until I stumble into a mirror in a dark room and punch myself in the face again, at least....
realtrance
Panason wrote:
Member massaging in private, I see. eek!

Let's get back to arguing about synths we can't afford! hyper


Or that don't exist yet!

I won't bring the GS crazies here, otherwise you'll have to ignore the first 100 pages of posts before the synth is even released, and machine learning will troll all those to profile us all deeply and target us for elimination when the Robot Overlords take over. This is fun!
roger
Any date on the Behringer clone yet?
Zymos
roger wrote:
Any date on the Behringer clone yet?


Any court date about the Behringer clone yet?
SynthBaron
Zymos wrote:
roger wrote:
Any date on the Behringer clone yet?


Any court date about the Behringer clone yet?


Behringer Neo, Matrixsynth Edition.
bitflip
Perhaps i'm crosseyed, but i counted 69 pots and over 120 switches. YOWZA w00t
SynthBaron
I guess we can shit on Behringer a bit less for being made in China, cuz Moog is now bitching about the increased import tariffs and threatening "...to move some, if not all, of their manufacturing overseas.":

https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?e=&u=66ca69d70dceab5be9897856d&id=a2 684e1453

https://twitter.com/moogmusicinc/status/1012818900340404225
chvad
Jason Brock wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
...worked out our misunderstandings between one another via very adult and very mature private messages.


I read that as massages.


pics or it didn't happen! Dead Banana
Tonefloat01
Will 100% buy a new Moog ploysynth if they make it, day one! Guinness ftw!
rowsbywoof
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Will 100% buy a new Moog ploysynth if they make it, day one! Guinness ftw!


With something like Sweetwater’s 24/36 month same as cash, I fear I might as well. Sigh.
wechard
SynthBaron wrote:
Moog is now bitching about the increased import tariffs


Bitching? Sounds like a legitimate worry to me. It’s also making me consider jumping at that Mother 32 sooner rather than later...
denuir
wechard wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
Moog is now bitching about the increased import tariffs


Bitching? Sounds like a legitimate worry to me. It’s also making me consider jumping at that Mother 32 sooner rather than later...


Agreed. Bitching is not the appropriate word.
SynthBaron
denuir wrote:
wechard wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
Moog is now bitching about the increased import tariffs


Bitching? Sounds like a legitimate worry to me. It’s also making me consider jumping at that Mother 32 sooner rather than later...


Agreed. Bitching is not the appropriate word.




Zymos
Meh, should probably just stick to speculation and rumors about this synth, and leave that other stuff behind....
SynthBaron
Zymos wrote:
Meh, should probably just stick to speculation and rumors about this synth, and leave that other stuff behind....


I agree, I just didn't want to open a separate thread about it...lol.
Zymos
SynthBaron wrote:
Zymos wrote:
Meh, should probably just stick to speculation and rumors about this synth, and leave that other stuff behind....


I agree, I just didn't want to open a separate thread about it...lol.


You don't even need to, it's already been done!

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203427
solusarpus
I wonder what kind of cv interfacing this thing will have; it would make since for it to be able to interface with polyphonic modules but I doubt it will have cv/ gate i/o for 8 or 16 voices. Maybe the effects will be cv- able?
solusarpus
solusarpus wrote:
I wonder what kind of cv interfacing this thing will have; it would make since for it to be able to interface with polyphonic modules but I doubt it will have cv/ gate i/o for 8 or 16 voices. Maybe the effects will be cv- able?


ehh, that should read “sense,” of course
Synthoholic
I came to this thread late and got rick rolled.


Heart check for all those wanting a poly all these years and saying they would buy one. (I think I'm included in that...they are trying to get my vcs3 money).

This will complete the Constellation though.

16 voices or bust.
solusarpus
I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. To me, the only feature that seems suspicious is the vocoder, but I guess a lot of cheaper synths have them these days, so it shouldn’t be so much of a surprise...
calaveras
This new DSI sounds interesting.
Dave Peck
solusarpus wrote:
I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. To me, the only feature that seems suspicious is the vocoder, but I guess a lot of cheaper synths have them these days, so it shouldn’t be so much of a surprise...


Yup, there's even a 40-band vocoder in the very-budget-friendly Alesis Ion/Micron. The global dual effects section of this synth could be any of several already proven circuits found in a variety of other products. This part of the design could be essentially 'copy & paste' rather than being something completely new and designed specifically for just this synth.
SynthBaron
Comparing the presentation about the architecture given by the Moog engineers and the leaked specs, I'm a bit worried they may be a bit too ambitious about the digital touchscreen computer part of it for a such a small company.
Dave Peck
Touchscreen technology can often be fairly easy to implement in a product's design these days. I've worked on several different products that used various types of touchscreen tech (resistive, capacitive, I/R) and they are not quite 'plug and play' but they also don't require a ton of special engineering to implement. The companies that make these components do a pretty good job of making them easy to design in.

The more difficult tasks with a relatively big expensive product like this are going to be overall design for manufacturability, design for testability, and keeping the cost under control to maintain a decent profit margin. And getting it designed and out the door quick enough to avoid a huge cash flow issue.


EDIT: ....now having said that, do we really know that the screen will be a touchscreen? Because the row of hardware buttons and rotary encoders above and below it tend to indicate otherwise, that this just may be a simple display with no touch overlay.
SynthBaron
Dave Peck wrote:
And getting it designed and out the door quick enough to avoid a huge cash flow issue.


Considering they filed the trademark 11 months ago, it likely means that they've probably been working on it for at least 2 years. I wouldn't be counting on August, like the leak says...
SynthBaron
Dave Peck wrote:

EDIT: ....now having said that, do we really know that the screen will be a touchscreen? Because the row of hardware buttons and rotary encoders above and below it tend to indicate otherwise, that this just may be a simple display with no touch overlay.


Someone mentioned that since there doesn't seem room for the "XY pad for expressive control" on the front panel, considering the other specs it would make more sense for it to be part of the main screen (as shown in the PCB pics).
solusarpus
SynthBaron wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:

EDIT: ....now having said that, do we really know that the screen will be a touchscreen? Because the row of hardware buttons and rotary encoders above and below it tend to indicate otherwise, that this just may be a simple display with no touch overlay.


Someone mentioned that since there doesn't seem room for the "XY pad for expressive control" on the front panel, considering the other specs it would make more sense for it to be part of the main screen (as shown in the PCB pics).


I think they have enough experience from all of the recent ios synths to incorporate a touchscreen- the infamous gui video from a few months back is probably referring to this. It will likely be button- accessible as well judging from the design of the board with the screen on it in the leaked pic
SynthBaron
Also, the name of the product suggests "full integration". My 18 year old Korg Triton has a touchscreen. They have been common on major brand synth workstations for a decade now. I think to use a screen that big as shown and it not be one would be a bit strange, especially since this thing will have a ton of menus you will need to navigate.

It also happens to have what looks like a lot of fingertip press smudges on the screen. Mr. Green

solusarpus
Dave Peck wrote:

EDIT: ....now having said that, do we really know that the screen will be a touchscreen? Because the row of hardware buttons and rotary encoders above and below it tend to indicate otherwise, that this just may be a simple display with no touch overlay.


Another note: the screen seems a bit large just to be a non- touch display (but certainly smaller than all of the ipad models, eh); I wonder if it is just a stand in for the voyager xy pad- style, or if it can do more animoog- style tricks (drawing the modulation routes, the xy circle size, etc)??
solusarpus
SynthBaron wrote:
Also, the name of the product suggests "full integration". My 18 year old Korg Triton has a touchscreen. They have been common on major brand synth workstations for a decade now. I think to use a screen that big as shown and it not be one would be a bit strange, especially since this thing will have a ton of menus you will need to navigate.

It also happens to have what looks like a lot of fingertip press smudges on the screen. Mr. Green



great catch!

Also, does anyone know its general shape / design? hopefully it looks “classic,” even like the old memorymoog, but not bright orange or something heinous
ThinLazy
Ugh, I hate using touch screens, Id pay extra for real buttons
SynthBaron
ThinLazy wrote:
Ugh, I hate using touch screens, Id pay extra for real buttons


If you watch the presentation from the Moog engineers on the underlying architecture, they hint that it will have software programmable hardware buttons and encoders like other workstations do around the screen. Meaning that they realize the need for obvious tactile functions for quick editing.
cornutt
solusarpus wrote:
hopefully it looks “classic,” even like the old memorymoog, but not bright orange or something heinous


They aren't Waldorf, so no worries. Mr. Green
michenal
[/quote]

great catch!

Also, does anyone know its general shape / design? hopefully it looks “classic,” even like the old memorymoog, but not bright orange or something heinous[/quote]

I have seen it and it looks like a modernized version of the memorymoog. Very sleek and beautiful with aluminum and wood. Black panels and buttons/knobs similar to the subsequent 37.
solusarpus
I have seen it and it looks like a modernized version of the memorymoog. Very sleek and beautiful with aluminum and wood. Black panels and buttons/knobs similar to the subsequent 37.


Ah, what a relief. 61 or 76 keys? 2 or 3 mod wheels? I am so excited, everyone has been talking about this since big briar got the moog name back, I remember speculation on the likelihood of a poly on the old analogue heaven list (is that still around?)
GuyaGuy
SynthBaron wrote:
Also, the name of the product suggests "full integration". My 18 year old Korg Triton has a touchscreen. They have been common on major brand synth workstations for a decade now. I think to use a screen that big as shown and it not be one would be a bit strange, especially since this thing will have a ton of menus you will need to navigate.

It also happens to have what looks like a lot of fingertip press smudges on the screen. Mr. Green


Touchscreens are fairly common but they're usually old school Palm Pilot ones with slow refresh rates and no multi-touch. If this thing is handling Animoog-style features it will need to be more advanced.
Dave Peck
.... Maybe I just never noticed them before, but there sure seem to be quite a few Memorymoogs for sale over at reverb.com.....
SynthBaron
Dave Peck wrote:
.... Maybe I just never noticed them before, but there sure seem to be quite a few Memorymoogs for sale over at reverb.com.....


Insider trading before the inevitable price drop.
jonne74
estin wrote:
LOL April Fools a little late this year? I hope they are almost done with the 8 voice theremin as well.


As the founder of Moog Music Inc., I can confirm this 100% The grasshoppers taped to my legs can back me up.
calaveras
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
I insist on performance, dedication, work ethic, and a willingness to work hard beyond the 5:00 o'clock bell.

I told you, unless you are willing to pay overtime, you cannot expect me to give up the tribute band.
michenal
solusarpus wrote:

Ah, what a relief. 61 or 76 keys? 2 or 3 mod wheels? I am so excited, everyone has been talking about this since big briar got the moog name back, I remember speculation on the likelihood of a poly on the old analogue heaven list (is that still around?)


I will not say more except that the leaked features floating around are pretty accurate..
DJMaytag
michenal wrote:
solusarpus wrote:

Ah, what a relief. 61 or 76 keys? 2 or 3 mod wheels? I am so excited, everyone has been talking about this since big briar got the moog name back, I remember speculation on the likelihood of a poly on the old analogue heaven list (is that still around?)


I will not say more except that the leaked features floating around are pretty accurate..

Yes they were. Sweetwater spilled the beans first at 12:01 AM. I’m not sure how Moog is going to feel about that, as they were planning an announcement this morning.
Muzone
Quote:
Clad in a handcrafted ash cabinet, the Moog One aluminum front panel is fitted with 73 knobs and 144 buttons.....


Oh man, if only it'd been walnut I might have been interested whistlin'
Panason
Quote:
And they've also promised us a number of low-serial-number units (2-10) on each unit, though this does run an extra $500


They know their target market..
numan7
sweatwater blurb wrote:
Premium 61-note Fatar TP-8S keybed with velocity and aftertouch


sad banana well that's a kind of a bummer - a roli-seaboard-like interface would have made it more interesting to me (probably not $8k-interesting though, but who knows).

hmmm..... i wonder if it will support external mpe midi controlllers.


cheers
battema
There's no indication (at least in the Sweetwater specs) that it will support MPE.

I find Roli's incredibly unplayable personally so that's not a miss for me. But I would have probably given this a closer look had there been a keybed with poly AT.
lisa
Panason wrote:
They know their target market..

hihi
nectarios
2 grand buys you this (no, not the Jasper).
I wonder if the new Moog sounds 4 times better than the A6.


DJMaytag
nectarios wrote:
I wonder if the new Moog sounds 4 times better than the A6.

I wonder if the Moog One will be serviceable 20 years from now, unlike some of the chips in the A6?
patmcm
For those curious, all the unpublished Sweetwater images are here.
nectarios
DJMaytag wrote:
nectarios wrote:
I wonder if the new Moog sounds 4 times better than the A6.

I wonder if the Moog One will be serviceable 20 years from now, unlike some of the chips in the A6?

No idea.
I hope the Voyager line PCB horror stories, don't carry over to the Moog One either.
nectarios
patmcm wrote:
For those curious, all the unpublished Sweetwater images are here.


Yeah, Memorymoog much. Very nice. Obviously not 6-8grand nice but that's just me finding the price absolutely ridiculous, unless the sound demo makes me change my mind.
lootacow
I would say the price is fair. Considering what synths cost back in the day, I'd say the price is pretty fair. In a time where there are tons of budget friendly synths, there has to be a top tier to balance it all out.
rowsbywoof
nectarios wrote:
patmcm wrote:
For those curious, all the unpublished Sweetwater images are here.


Yeah, Memorymoog much. Very nice. Obviously not 6-8grand nice but that's just me finding the price absolutely ridiculous, unless the sound demo makes me change my mind.


I almost wish they leaned into the Memorymoog a little more, or maybe the Subsequent 37 CV and fitted this with a bit more aluminum than ash... Though, I'm sure in a year or so there will be a special edition, or some Tolex version, or something that will spice it up.

It's gorgeous, but I really like when Moog leans away from furniture and goes more industrial. Wish to see more of that in their flagship, at some point. I mean... We're in for many, many, years of the One, so wink

LOL at how dead on this leak was, though. Man, someone at Sweetwater completely spilled the beans on this months ahead of time, and then beat Moog to the punch with the announcement this morning... Though, again, I'm fishy about that sort of stuff. I smell a partnership similar to what they were doing with Guitar Center and the grandmother/minimoog reissues a few years back. Give Sweetwater some of the shine and first dibs to keep them happy, sort of thing.
nectarios
lootacow wrote:
I would say the price is fair. Considering what synths cost back in the day, I'd say the price is pretty fair. In a time where there are tons of budget friendly synths, there has to be a top tier to balance it all out.


6-8 grand buys you a lot of top tier synth and effects these days though, brand new and/or vintage. That is 8000bucks for a 16 voice analog poly we are talking about, probably not discrete either.

I am open to the possibility of being floored by the sound of the Moog One, so lets see.
Illiac
numan7 wrote:
hmmm..... i wonder if it will support external mpe midi controlllers.


It supports MPE!
rowsbywoof
nectarios wrote:
lootacow wrote:
I would say the price is fair. Considering what synths cost back in the day, I'd say the price is pretty fair. In a time where there are tons of budget friendly synths, there has to be a top tier to balance it all out.


6-8 grand buys you a lot of top tier synth and effects these days though, brand new and/or vintage. That is 8000bucks for a 16 voice analog poly we are talking about, probably not discrete either.

I am open to the possibility of being floored by the sound of the Moog One, so lets see.


There's no doubt in my mind that it's going to floor me, and I think they'll go with discreet on this, as well. I'd expect the same through-hole assembly as they did on the Voyagers and Model D reissue... and probably helps justify that price a bit, but good lord I don't need to drop $6-8K on a poly-Moog! I know I'm going to want to, but... Thank the hardware Gods that my place is way too full to justify squeezing this in someplace. grin
Panason
I does look absolutely stunning in those photos.

I might get the fridge magnet ...
lootacow
Definitely expensive, not gonna argue that. But I don't think it's totally out of reach. With the different payment plan options, it's totally obtainable for a lot of people. I bought an OB6 and a Prophet 6 on payment plans. Would have not been able to get them if that option wasn't available. It just depends on if you're willling to commit to the plans I guess. But I do think it will sell. I do think people will dig it. And I do see a bunch of people selling other gear to buy the Moog One.
RickKleffel
rowsbywoof wrote:
Thank the hardware Gods that my place is way too full to justify squeezing this in someplace. grin


Yep. IF they put out a no-keys version with all the rest of the goodness, that changes the calculation, but not by much. If you've already got a bit of that sound, via Boog, etc, it would have to earn its space. Given the high price, that's a high bar.

If you have no space or money limits, then [for my money], it is up against the Waldorf Quantum. And in my case, that would warrant very, very close, and exhaustive rounds of comparison to see how the feel of working with each would fit into my setup and my semi-musical interests.

[Insert thread-ending comment here]
lootacow
Just saw a Memorymoog w/ Midi sold on eBay for $12,000. Moog One price doesn't sound too bad compared to that.
Panason
One of the few things I like about Gearslutz is that they have a separate "high end" subforum for the expensive shit...

nectarios
lootacow wrote:
Definitely expensive, not gonna argue that. But I don't think it's totally out of reach. With the different payment plan options, it's totally obtainable for a lot of people. I bought an OB6 and a Prophet 6 on payment plans. Would have not been able to get them if that option wasn't available. It just depends on if you're willling to commit to the plans I guess. But I do think it will sell. I do think people will dig it. And I do see a bunch of people selling other gear to buy the Moog One.

I think people will dig it too. I will dig it as well for sure, but to put things in perspective, the "cheap" Moog One costs more than both the P6 and OB6, for example...
ludotex
Thats a beautiful looking monster. MY ASS IS BLEEDING
michenal
battema wrote:
There's no indication (at least in the Sweetwater specs) that it will support MPE.

I find Roli's incredibly unplayable personally so that's not a miss for me. But I would have probably given this a closer look had there been a keybed with poly AT.


It supports MPE
lootacow
nectarios wrote:
lootacow wrote:
Definitely expensive, not gonna argue that. But I don't think it's totally out of reach. With the different payment plan options, it's totally obtainable for a lot of people. I bought an OB6 and a Prophet 6 on payment plans. Would have not been able to get them if that option wasn't available. It just depends on if you're willling to commit to the plans I guess. But I do think it will sell. I do think people will dig it. And I do see a bunch of people selling other gear to buy the Moog One.

I think people will dig it too. I will dig it as well for sure, but to put things in perspective, the "cheap" Moog One costs more than both the P6 and OB6, for example...


As long as the amount due at the end of the month is reasonable, we should be good to go. Just gonna take more months to pay it off.
battema
michenal wrote:
battema wrote:
There's no indication (at least in the Sweetwater specs) that it will support MPE.

I find Roli's incredibly unplayable personally so that's not a miss for me. But I would have probably given this a closer look had there been a keybed with poly AT.


It supports MPE


Good to know, glad to hear (and I stand corrected apparently!).
michenal
battema wrote:
michenal wrote:
battema wrote:
There's no indication (at least in the Sweetwater specs) that it will support MPE.

I find Roli's incredibly unplayable personally so that's not a miss for me. But I would have probably given this a closer look had there been a keybed with poly AT.


It supports MPE


Good to know, glad to hear (and I stand corrected apparently!).


I asked that question to the Moog reps during the prototype demo in June so I guess I trust my sources..
Sir Ruff
Illiac wrote:
numan7 wrote:
hmmm..... i wonder if it will support external mpe midi controlllers.


It supports MPE!


Kind of ROFL-ing at the MPE/Poly AT controller comments... New mega-poly appears, and we haven't even heard it yet, but THAT is the deciding criterion? hihi
grillo
nectarios wrote:
2 grand buys you this (no, not the Jasper).
I wonder if the new Moog sounds 4 times better than the A6.


that's not it. And I mean, nothing works like that. Sounding better is highly subjective, but if, hypothetically, the moog one sounded even marginally better than the A6 the price difference would be justified, at least to certain people.

law of diminishing returns and all that.

But again, that goes for everything on the market, cameras, cars, power tools, computers, etc.
Panason
Sir Ruff wrote:

Kind of ROFL-ing at the MPE/Poly AT controller comments... New mega-poly appears, and we haven't even heard it yet, but THAT is the deciding criterion? hihi


It's another internet echo chamber... but it could be worse:

-"It has patch memories so not fully analog"
-"It has MIDI control so not fully analog and hence not sounding fat"
-"It has MIDI so you'll hear stepping when you sweep the filter because I'm so clueless that I think that it will use 127 steps for the internal controls"
-"It's not vintage so it cannot sound as fat as the classics, because analog components are not the same these days"
-"Does it have CV? No CV, no deal because I want to control this from my monophonic step sequencer"
-"Does it have microtuning because I really want an 8k synth to make experimental drone music for my cassette releases"
-"Is it multi-timbral?"

I'm sure the LAN port at the back will be a real issue for some. "Is this a computer?"
battema
Well...

I have an Andromeda and a Deckards Dream. I also have a Voyager. So this looks great, and if I had no analog polysynth in my arsenal then I'd probably be all over it. But at that price point it needs to offer something I don't already have.

The one thing that springs to mind is true poly AT in a keyboard synth (versus the DD which supports, but requires a separate controller).

But hey, thanks for the kind remarks anyway.
popvulture
Panason wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:

Kind of ROFL-ing at the MPE/Poly AT controller comments... New mega-poly appears, and we haven't even heard it yet, but THAT is the deciding criterion? hihi


It's another internet echo chamber... but it could be worse:

-"It has patch memories so not fully analog"
-"It has MIDI control so not fully analog and hence not sounding fat"
-"It has MIDI so you'll hear stepping when you sweep the filter because I'm so clueless that I think that it will use 127 steps for the internal controls"
-"It's not vintage so it cannot sound as fat as the classics, because analog components are not the same these days"
-"Does it have CV? No CV, no deal because I want to control this from my monophonic step sequencer"
-"Does it have microtuning because I really want an 8k synth to make experimental drone music for my cassette releases"
-"Is it multi-timbral?"

I'm sure the LAN port at the back will be a real issue for some. "Is this a computer?"

Loled irl - thank you, sir applause
Sir Ruff
Panason wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:

Kind of ROFL-ing at the MPE/Poly AT controller comments... New mega-poly appears, and we haven't even heard it yet, but THAT is the deciding criterion? hihi


It's another internet echo chamber... but it could be worse:

-"It has patch memories so not fully analog"
-"It has MIDI control so not fully analog and hence not sounding fat"
-"It has MIDI so you'll hear stepping when you sweep the filter because I'm so clueless that I think that it will use 127 steps for the internal controls"
-"It's not vintage so it cannot sound as fat as the classics, because analog components are not the same these days"
-"Does it have CV? No CV, no deal because I want to control this from my monophonic step sequencer"
-"Does it have microtuning because I really want an 8k synth to make experimental drone music for my cassette releases"

I'm sure the LAN port at the back will be a real issue for some. "Is this a computer?"


LOL, absolutely.

battema wrote:
Well...

I have an Andromeda and a Deckards Dream. I also have a Voyager. So this looks great, and if I had no analog polysynth in my arsenal then I'd probably be all over it. But at that price point it needs to offer something I don't already have.

The one thing that springs to mind is true poly AT in a keyboard synth (versus the DD which supports, but requires a separate controller).


Right, so do you actually care about how it sounds, or just that it has PolyAT? wink

Anyway, not trying to derail or call folks out. Just think it's funny.
battema
Do I care? Sure. But not enough to warrant that price point. The same way I did not care enough to buy their recent modular system offerings (which I'm sure sound better than my Eurorack).

It's a thread. I offered an opinion, speaking only for myself and no one else. Didn't expect to get ridiculed for something so minor. Should know better.
Panason
I certainly wasn't ridiculing you, but commenters on Youtube/ Gearlsutz.
gentle_attack
Panason wrote:

-"Does it have microtuning because I really want an 8k synth to make experimental drone music for my cassette releases"
-"Is it multi-timbral?"

I'm sure the LAN port at the back will be a real issue for some. "Is this a computer?"


applause hyper

I'm so glad I took you off ignore. I'm laughing so hard right now

Is this a computer FTW
anselmi
I just wish its sound engine is more based on the Grandmother than the Sub-37

I have the Sub-37 and it´s a great synth for some stuff but the tone of the Grandmother is just better and (to my ears) more suitable for poly stuff

I also expect that Moog don´t use the Sub-37´s digital control that is before the modulation bus...this limits the results of audio-rate modulations that sounds like shit in the Sub-37, compared with the old Phattys...also, the Sub-37 use digital LFOs in audio rate configuration instead of the analog oscillators, and even the CV input pass thru the digital bus before reach the target...they said this allows CV to access a lot of destinations in the synth but with fast modulators the results are bad

If they just back to the old way of having the analog oscillators as a modulation source I´ll be convinced to buy one
cscairney
Wow, nice. I can’t wait to hear what people do with this beast.
J3RK
Looks incredible, and I'm loving those oscillator sections. w00t
nectarios
The bar is set here, this is the sound to beat.





Apparently Moog One is all SMT. So its 2 grand extra for 8 more SMT voice chips.
DJMaytag
Panason wrote:
I'm sure the LAN port at the back will be a real issue for some. "Is this a computer?"

Better be Gigabit Ethernet capable or this thing is trash. wink
anselmi
Oscillator and filter FM! yes!
3 parts multi, each with its own sequencer/arp/eventide fx! yes!

feature-wise it´s amazing, now the sound...please don´t screw this one!
GovernorSilver
nectarios wrote:
The bar is set here, this is the sound to beat.





Apparently Moog One is all SMT. So its 2 grand extra for 8 more SMT voice chips.


He's running it through an Eventide processor, as well as another high-end box (AMS something), so this vid is kind of a preview of the One.
Blackblacky
Photos :

https://imgur.com/a/Iedm1Ip
jsheaucsb
anselmi wrote:
I just wish its sound engine is more based on the Grandmother than the Sub-37


Sorry, I must have missed this in the documentation…where does it say that the oscillators are built around those found in the sub 37?
Panason
It does in fact look like it's 3 part multi-timbral (Synth 1, 2, 3)
tioJim
Panason wrote:
I does look absolutely stunning in those photos.

I might get the fridge magnet ...


lolz

6 or 12 voice?
tioJim
[quote="Panason"]
Sir Ruff wrote:

-"Does it have microtuning because I really want an 8k synth to make experimental drone music for my cassette releases"


haha, many lolz
tioJim
Dubious of the SMT/through-hole debate here. Nearly all the modern analog stuff is SMT. That's how Korg, Arturia, Dave Smith, Moog etc have been able to do it. SMT is cheaper and scales better. There's nothing "unanalog" about SMT components. It's just a different package.

Also discrete versus ICs. There's plenty of classic analogs without their important bits being discrete. Anything with a Curtis chip for example and try doing an op-amp with discrete components you'd need PCBs the size of pool tables!

J
RickKleffel
I'll wait for the Dave Smith/Moog Moog-6. I can make do without the fancy-schmancy display. And the DSI version will include his very useful Swiss Pocket Knife Effects Section!
DJMaytag
tioJim wrote:
Dubious of the SMT/through-hole debate here. Nearly all the modern analog stuff is SMT. That's how Korg, Arturia, Dave Smith, Moog etc have been able to do it. SMT is cheaper and scales better. There's nothing "unanalog" about SMT components. It's just a different package.

Also discrete versus ICs. There's plenty of classic analogs without their important bits being discrete. Anything with a Curtis chip for example and try doing an op-amp with discrete components you'd need PCBs the size of pool tables!

My understanding is that there’s going to be some stuffed PCB’s but there will still be some work to do soldering some TH components to the boards (I think it’s safe to say the 73 pots will need to be soldered on).

Stuffing everything on boards in China goes against everything the company stands for. They’re quite proud of the craftsmanship of their workers, who are also part owners of the company.
crawling wind
Holding out for the iPad app. headbang
minimalist
While I would never describe this as inexpensive, I think the price is probably reasonable as a long term investment. People who buy such a synth either make their living from music or are enthusiastic hobbyists with a good job. I don't worry about spending a certain amount of money on something to see if I like it, and if it doesn't work out, I move it on. For example, I didn't gel with my Lyra 8 so sold it quickly and easily, only losing about €50.

At this price level, I wouldn't be so quick with my money but in the bigger scheme of things, 8k for a synth which most will keep forever is not unreasonably. If you buy a nice car, it could depreciate more than 8k in a year. A nice watch can cost 8k. I know most people don't spent 8k on a watch but the market exists and flourishes for a reason.

Assuming this synth sounds as amazing as it should, it will be something to aspire to and I'll be paying close attention to the reviews as they come out.
flashheart
nectarios wrote:

Apparently Moog One is all SMT. So its 2 grand extra for 8 more SMT voice chips.
d'oh! SMT doesn't mean 'voice chips', it just means not thru-hole soldered. The Prophet 5 isn't SMT yet has voice chips - must be bad eh?
Let's wait and see.
EPTC
crawling wind wrote:
Holding out for the iPad app. headbang


If this is just for polyphony, you already have it in the Model D app. (and the Model 15 app)

MiniMoog
EPTC
minimalist wrote:
While I would never describe this as inexpensive, I think the price is probably reasonable as a long term investment.


Yep, still thousands cheaper than an original Minimoog, which was $1495 msrp in 1970, or $10,000 in today's money.

I'm not in the market for a new Moog, but if i were, I'm cool with the cost. (But maybe since I'm not buying one is why I'm cool with it, ha)
nectarios
flashheart wrote:
nectarios wrote:

Apparently Moog One is all SMT. So its 2 grand extra for 8 more SMT voice chips.
d'oh! SMT doesn't mean 'voice chips', it just means not thru-hole soldered. The Prophet 5 isn't SMT yet has voice chips - must be bad eh?
Let's wait and see.

Yes, it doesn't. Too much Juno talk the last few days for me.
The Prophet 5 is anything but bad, but it's not SMT either. P6 is SMT if I am not mistaken. They sound different, the Rev3 I've heard does anyway.
Of course it could be many reasons why.

My comment was regarding the 2 grand difference for 8 more voices that are not discrete. But yes, let's wait and see/hear.
nectarios
GovernorSilver wrote:
nectarios wrote:
The bar is set here, this is the sound to beat.





Apparently Moog One is all SMT. So its 2 grand extra for 8 more SMT voice chips.


He's running it through an Eventide processor, as well as another high-end box (AMS something), so this vid is kind of a preview of the One.


*If* it sounds as good as this, then it's worth every cent.
oranginafiend
not a huge fan of the screen but maybe it will offer something useful. can't wait for sounds!
nectarios


Amos said no CEM chips, still worth reading Paul T's arguments regarding the price and the cheap Chinese parts used.
Panason
It should be obvious by now that Moog are milking a particular market and demographic and that there is a large premium attached to the brand name.

Personally I find Moog synths to be rather boring and limited compared to what's out there... they are great for prog rock and other 70's styles though w00t
bkbirge
I can't wait to hear it but I'm not expecting it to make me even consider selling my memorymoog. It is about time for a modern true Moog poly, after decades of begging fans they better bring it hard.
Sir Ruff
nectarios wrote:
Amos said no CEM chips, still worth reading Paul T's arguments regarding the price and the cheap Chinese parts used.


Yeah, his comments are well informed and a little disconcerting... but I also can't help but wonder if this is also overly vindictive bleacher talk from someone who may have some deep-seated dislike of Moog Music. Also, his statements have to be taken in context: he uses a $9 knob on modular panels that only require a handful. There are 73 knobs on the One (which would = $657). I don't make synths, but having 1/10th of the cost of a synth going toward pots does not seem like a viable production model.
GovernorSilver
nectarios wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
nectarios wrote:
The bar is set here, this is the sound to beat.





Apparently Moog One is all SMT. So its 2 grand extra for 8 more SMT voice chips.


He's running it through an Eventide processor, as well as another high-end box (AMS something), so this vid is kind of a preview of the One.


*If* it sounds as good as this, then it's worth every cent.


The problem with Eventide effects is they make a lot of synths sound more desirable than you might have thought without the effects.
estin
[quote="tioJim"]
Panason wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:

-"Does it have microtuning because I really want an 8k synth to make experimental drone music for my cassette releases"


haha, many lolz



Whats wrong with wanting to use it in this manner? Cliche' pads and Moog Bass is more original?
EPTC
GovernorSilver wrote:
The problem with Eventide effects is they make a lot of synths sound more desirable than you might have thought without the effects.


Sweetwater specs say Eventide effects are in the signal path on the Moog One.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MoogOne16--moog-one-16-voice-a nalog-synthesizer

Quote:
Premium onboard effects

Moog One offers a growing library of programmable per-synth and master bus effects, including chorus, delay, phase, bit reduction, vocoding, and a suite of premium Eventide reverbs such as Blackhole, Shimmer, Plate, Room, and Hall. Effects can be applied as Synth Effects and Master Bus Effects. Synth Effects are applied to individual timbral layers, while Master Bus Effects can be accessed via sends from all three synthesizers. Though its onboard effects are digital, the Moog One audio path is completely analog when all the effects are true bypassed.
mor4sso
Panason wrote:

Personally I find Moog synths to be rather boring and limited compared to what's out there... they are great for prog rock and other 70's styles though w00t


you should try out a grandmommy if you haven't already. great synth w00t
Sinamsis
Damn this looks nice. I would never consider this if I didn't just completely clear the balance on my Sweetwater card. Ha.... and now I'm reaching out to my Sweetwater rep for more details. Oh boy...
nectarios
Sir Ruff wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Amos said no CEM chips, still worth reading Paul T's arguments regarding the price and the cheap Chinese parts used.


Yeah, his comments are well informed and a little disconcerting... but I also can't help but wonder if this is also overly vindictive bleacher talk from someone who may have some deep-seated dislike of Moog Music. Also, his statements have to be taken in context: he uses a $9 knob on modular panels that only require a handful. There are 73 knobs on the One (which would = $657). I don't make synths, but having 1/10th of the cost of a synth going toward pots does not seem like a viable production model.

He posts pics and stories of Bob, wears a Moog cap in his profile pic and has a Moog modular on his banner pic. I dont think he dislikes the company but then again I don't know the guy. I just know that he is disliked by some people and that he *really* knows what he is talking about.

As for the knobs, I don't know how much bulk price of the better ones would add up to, but amongst the other things mentioned, putting very cheap knobs on an 8 grand synth, does raise some eyebrows and makes one think what's the really expensive part on the synth, besides the brand name?
numan7
Illiac wrote:
numan7 wrote:
hmmm..... i wonder if it will support external mpe midi controlllers.


It supports MPE!


SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo w00t well superb - i can't wait to hear a demo of moog one being controlled by a haken continuum! Play Him Off, Keyboard Cat.

hmmm..... maybe i'm going to need to sell off one or two of my modular systems at some point. we'll see how the one sounds and how durable its build quality is...


cheers
numan7
Sir Ruff wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Amos said no CEM chips, still worth reading Paul T's arguments regarding the price and the cheap Chinese parts used.


Yeah, his comments are well informed and a little disconcerting... but I also can't help but wonder if this is also overly vindictive bleacher talk from someone who may have some deep-seated dislike of Moog Music. Also, his statements have to be taken in context: he uses a $9 knob on modular panels that only require a handful. There are 73 knobs on the One (which would = $657). I don't make synths, but having 1/10th of the cost of a synth going toward pots does not seem like a viable production model.



did he (Paul) post this on FB (and if so, could someone who isn't allergic to FB please transcribe to here)?


cheers
Futuresound
The amount I don't care about this thing is vast, but I will say this for it, it's very ugly.

That, and also that the low-serial premium is hilarious.
nectarios
Futuresound wrote:

That, and also that the low-serial premium is hilarious.

Are they charging more money for low serial units?
Futuresound
nectarios wrote:
Futuresound wrote:

That, and also that the low-serial premium is hilarious.

Are they charging more money for low serial units?


Sweetwater is offering low-serial units for an extra $500
nectarios
Futuresound wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Futuresound wrote:

That, and also that the low-serial premium is hilarious.

Are they charging more money for low serial units?


Sweetwater is offering low-serial units for an extra $500

lol
blt
Can it poly chain? I need 64 voices at minimum to feel anything these days.
BTByrd
numan7 wrote:

did he (Paul) post this on FB (and if so, could someone who isn't allergic to FB please transcribe to here)?


cheers


This pretty much summed it up.

Sinamsis
Well as an Andromeda owner, I can tell you that unsealed pots are a big problem. Shit oxidizes and the behavior of the pot becomes erratic. I am debating selling it, as I'm really interested in this synth. Is the price point bonkers? Kinda. But it is likely within my means, and it's something I've wanted for a long time. And addresses many perceived short comings of previous Moog synthesizers. The specs are pretty much everything I've wanted from an analog polysynth and not found in any modern machine. If I really like the unit and start experiencing issues, I'd probably be willing to put down the money to have someone replace the pots with better quality ones (I came to that conclusion with the A6 as well). Is it annoying to have to do so? Yes. But the only other modern VCO based synth that comes close to the specs that I can think of is the Omega 8. While it offers more potential filter choices, it's only 8 voices and rack and it gets close to the price when fully expanded, or at least the Code does I believe. From what I understand the filters don't track 1v/octave as well. And I can't recall if it's 2 or 3 oscillators. And only one filter per voice at a time. The A6 offers 16 voices, 2 osc, 2 sub osc, 2 filters, 3 LFOs and 3 complex envelopes per voice as well as built in effects. Oh and 16 timbres, flexible audio routing. The Moog One comes close to many of these, falls short on some (only 3 timbres for example, envelopes are not nearly as complex). But the A6 is quirky AF, and requires proprietary voice boards, etc which are now unobtanium. And the UI is a nightmare.
nectarios
Sinamsis wrote:
Well as an Andromeda owner, I can tell you that unsealed pots are a big problem. Shit oxidizes and the behavior of the pot becomes erratic. I am debating selling it, as I'm really interested in this synth. Is the price point bonkers? Kinda. But it is likely within my means, and it's something I've wanted for a long time. And addresses many perceived short comings of previous Moog synthesizers. The specs are pretty much everything I've wanted from an analog polysynth and not found in any modern machine. If I really like the unit and start experiencing issues, I'd probably be willing to put down the money to have someone replace the pots with better quality ones (I came to that conclusion with the A6 as well). Is it annoying to have to do so? Yes. But the only other modern VCO based synth that comes close to the specs that I can think of is the Omega 8. While it offers more potential filter choices, it's only 8 voices and rack and it gets close to the price when fully expanded, or at least the Code does I believe. From what I understand the filters don't track 1v/octave as well. And I can't recall if it's 2 or 3 oscillators. And only one filter per voice at a time. The A6 offers 16 voices, 2 osc, 2 sub osc, 2 filters, 3 LFOs and 3 complex envelopes per voice as well as built in effects. Oh and 16 timbres, flexible audio routing. The Moog One comes close to many of these, falls short on some (only 3 timbres for example, envelopes are not nearly as complex). But the A6 is quirky AF, and requires proprietary voice boards, etc which are now unobtanium. And the UI is a nightmare.


Granted the synth is (apparently) a ticking time bomb, I am keeping mine till its monophonic and the last voice, dies.

For what it does, I find the UI to be brilliant as it can be as deep or as simple as I wish. The touching of parameter and the display jumping to it are a great idea. I just needed to set the panel to "none" at the global parameter so I don't have to pass through the value of whatever the parameter is set to. It just makes sense for me to have it like that.
Let's see if the ridiculous A6 prices will go down due to Moog One and the (possible) frenzy of people selling their stuff.
The A6 is a fantastic synth, but anything above 2500€ is just taking the piss, imo always.
GovernorSilver
EPTC wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
The problem with Eventide effects is they make a lot of synths sound more desirable than you might have thought without the effects.


Sweetwater specs say Eventide effects are in the signal path on the Moog One.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MoogOne16--moog-one-16-voice-a nalog-synthesizer
[/quote]

Yes, this is why the other guy found the video of a Memorymoog and is using it as a reason to get excited for Moog One.

I was just pointing out the Memorymoog guy was using an Eventide effects box to make it sound better than normal.

Yes, we understand there's Eventide reverb inside the One.
nectarios
GovernorSilver wrote:
EPTC wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
The problem with Eventide effects is they make a lot of synths sound more desirable than you might have thought without the effects.


Sweetwater specs say Eventide effects are in the signal path on the Moog One.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MoogOne16--moog-one-16-voice-a nalog-synthesizer


Yes, this is why the other guy found the video of a Memorymoog and is using it as a reason to get excited for Moog One.

I was just pointing out the Memorymoog guy was using an Eventide effects box to make it sound better than normal.

Yes, we understand there's Eventide reverb inside the One.

If you are talking about me (I am the one who posted it), I am not getting excited about anything. I don't see my self splashing out on a modern Moog synth. My guess is that this will sound very nice, but not even half the asking price - nice...but let's wait and see if they pull one out of the hat. You never know.
bkbirge
They do go on about the ability to save presets, lol.

I do like the envelopes have onset delays like the classic Roland synths. The features are all pretty much a laundry list of synth-head desires over the years but the proof will be in the sound that's the big unknown.

Also hopefully they decided against using molex connectors. twisted

I wonder if the 8 voice is expandable to the 16 voice version by the user.

Definitely looking forward to hearing some trust fund kids make youtube videos with this. Guinness ftw!
a100user
Surprised Moog haven't updated their home page yet.
GovernorSilver
nectarios wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
EPTC wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
The problem with Eventide effects is they make a lot of synths sound more desirable than you might have thought without the effects.


Sweetwater specs say Eventide effects are in the signal path on the Moog One.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MoogOne16--moog-one-16-voice-a nalog-synthesizer


Yes, this is why the other guy found the video of a Memorymoog and is using it as a reason to get excited for Moog One.

I was just pointing out the Memorymoog guy was using an Eventide effects box to make it sound better than normal.

Yes, we understand there's Eventide reverb inside the One.

If you are talking about me (I am the one who posted it), I am not getting excited about anything. I don't see my self splashing out on a modern Moog synth. My guess is that this will sound very nice, but not even half the asking price - nice...but let's wait and see if they pull one out of the hat. You never know.


I didn't mean "excited" in a negative way, fwiw.

I have a friend who recently repaired his Memorymoog. Before he repaired it, I thought Memorymoogs were overrated, because his sounded pretty mediocre for an analog synth. The improvement in sound was quite dramatic.

I have no idea how similar the One will sound to a well-maintained/restored Memorymoog, or if it will sound more like a Polymoog (Larry Fast's work w/ Peter Gabriel sounded great to me - the pre-repair Memorymoog was a disappointment in comparison). It doesn't matter to me - I'm sure whoever gets this thing will be very happy, unless that person was expecting a DX7 sound or something. Some people have unusual thought processes here, so one never knows.

Moog will probably release another polysynth in the near future that doesn't have all the bells and whistles of The One. Not having onboard Eventide reverb would cut costs for sure.
nadafarms
Can’t believe the drop this with no demos
Sir Ruff
Moog didn't announce it, Sweetwater did. Moog wanted to be able to announce on 10/1, but were not beholden to that date. 10/8 now seems to be the official release date. SW jumped the gun with an automated listing basically, and so I'm guessing no demos for at least a week.
Sinamsis
Well I preordered. Ha I just took out a massive business loan and consolidated all my debt with it, so I thought I might just dig myself into a little more debt haha. But 2 year interest free financing certainly does take the edge off a bit.

This pretty much checks all the boxes for me. If it sounds as good as my Sub37 did, it'll be good enough for me I think. Kinda crazy to put down this kind of money sight unseen but Sweetwater has always taken care of me so there is some security there.

One last aside about the Andromeda, which I do feel is probably the closest comparable synth in terms of features... I don't think every unit is doomed to die. I think there was a bad batch where voice chips have failed. If you have a surviving unit then you're probably in good shape. Secondly, the pots suck for every unit I believe. It's a design issue. Third if you really love your A6 you should keep your eyes peeled for a parts board for security. But really, I think they're probably ok. I'll probably keep mine for now, maybe loan it out to someone until I have more space. I think the One should be better for more percussive and plucked sounds if the envelopes are anything like the preceding Moogs. I do find that the envelopes of the A6, while better than most people say, are not quite as snappy as I'd like. But it's great for pads and drones.

Oh and one last thing, I swear. The UI of the A6.... I do find that it's just not intuitive. There are so many modulation sources, but you have to assign them from the destination. It's just very counter-intuitive for me. And the screen is laggy, particularly when editing envelopes. These are known firmware bugs that were never addressed. That said I think someone has been reverse engineering the firmware and updating it, but it's been a several year process and is moving at the speed of molasses and likely very intermittently.
GovernorSilver
Friend of mine has an Andromeda. Nice sounding synth but he doesn't trust it for playing live. Same guy who restored his busted Memorymoog, with sweet new power supply from Germany, some colored lights, etc.
Dave Peck
nectarios wrote:
Futuresound wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Futuresound wrote:

That, and also that the low-serial premium is hilarious.

Are they charging more money for low serial units?


Sweetwater is offering low-serial units for an extra $500

lol


Indeed. This isn't a limited edition art print, it's an electronic product manufactured in mid-volume production runs. And given the choice, I would want a unit that was built AFTER the first small pilot runs and early production runs. Because no matter how carefully a manufacturer plans, there are often a few more issues that come to light during those early builds and there end up being a few more engineering changes/fixes/improvements that get implemented in the subsequent runs. I wouldn't want to pay extra for a unit that was missing all of those.
Dave Peck
Sinamsis wrote:
Well as an Andromeda owner, I can tell you that unsealed pots are a big problem. .


Judging from the PCBA photos earlier in this thread:

https://i.imgur.com/2gOiwfx.jpg

...the pots / encoders look fine. They look similar to Bourns PEC11 series etc. and those types of components are very reliable. These types of parts are used in countless high-end pro audio products.

The three large rotary SWITCHES at the top of the three Osc sections (not all of the small rotary POTS/ENCODERS) do look like unsealed rotary SWITCHES, when compared to something like a Grayhill rotary switch. But that may also not be an issue. They may be completely reliable for this application. Lots of other gear use these types of rotary switches with no reliability issues.

Also, note that these three rotary switches are mounted on small break-away PCBA sections, connected to the main board with short ribbons. This is primarily done because of the taller mounting height of these parts and they needed to move the pcb further away from the front panel to put these parts at the right mounting height, but it also makes these parts very easily serviceable if you ever do need to replace one.
ScottA2A
Does anyone know if the Moog one's VCO's will be able to drift (needing tuning) or are these somehow automatically kept in tune?

Scott.
Illiac
ScottA2A wrote:
Does anyone know if the Moog one's VCO's will be able to drift (needing tuning) or are these somehow automatically kept in tune?

Scott.


There's a digital calibration procedure that is done when it leaves the factory and is very stable. I remember Moog saying there were no trim pots under the hood. There's also the beat frequency knob on all 3 oscs. should you want some slop.
ScottA2A
Let's say you are using just OSC1 and play an octave or a chord. Will this beat frequency detune the notes in relation to each other without having to mix in the 2nd or 3rd oscillator?

Scott
Dave Peck
ScottA2A wrote:
Let's say you are using just OSC1 and play an octave or a chord. Will this beat frequency detune the notes in relation to each other without having to mix in the 2nd or 3rd oscillator?

Scott


I've been wondering about the function of that knob too. If it were just a standard 'fine tune' knob, used for slightly detuning oscs 2 & 3 from osc 1, why does osc 1 also have this knob?
DiscoDevil
ScottA2A wrote:
Let's say you are using just OSC1 and play an octave or a chord. Will this beat frequency detune the notes in relation to each other without having to mix in the 2nd or 3rd oscillator?

Scott


I think that's sort of how it works on the DSI synths.

*edit*

At least with unison
estin
Sinamsis wrote:
Well I preordered.


Fucking YOLO there bud! Guinness ftw!
EPTC
estin wrote:
Fucking YOLO there bud! Guinness ftw!


Haha, and then, with good regard, they'll be a YOMO! (You Owna Moog One)
DSC
You can buy a pretty nice used car for $8K. Any chance the Moog One comes with a spare tire? Just in case I accidentally crash it into a tree?
tehyar
DSC wrote:
You can buy a pretty nice used car for $8K. Any chance the Moog One comes with a spare tire? Just in case I accidentally crash it into a tree?


I know this is just pure speculation on my part, since I haven't actually seen one in person, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that one advantage the synth might have in this comparison is that it's much less likely to smell like smoke, fries, or ass.
Sinamsis
DSC wrote:
You can buy a pretty nice used car for $8K. Any chance the Moog One comes with a spare tire? Just in case I accidentally crash it into a tree?


Ha, yeah, but with that similar logic... you could build a smallish Buchla system for $8k.
cscairney
Or you could get a boat.
Or go grocery shopping for two years

Or ...you could purchase a synth.
Or you could buy some time at a recording studio and track their $8000 synth
EPTC
Or you could buy 80,000 dimes!

(Why do we always compare things to cars? If anything it demonstrates what we waste on transportation. Ride the bus, buy a bike, enjoy your poly, golly)
Sinamsis
estin wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Well I preordered.


Fucking YOLO there bud! Guinness ftw!


Ha, I'm not sure, but I suspect that's sarcasm. And if I heard someone dropped that cash on a synth without hearing it, on specs alone, I would think they're a fucking idiot. Ha, and I probably am. But, this past year I took over running our business and I have built things up quite a bit. I've saved up a lot of cash. And tomorrow I'm formally buying the remainder of the business, so I thought I'd treat myself with some of the hard earned profits. I've made some fairly large purchases from Sweetwater, and certainly had problems in the past. They always took care of me. So I feel pretty secure in the purchase. I also have a strong preference for modern synths over vintage synths and have made very few exceptions (the A6 being one as I hadn't found a modern analog poly that I was happy with and was within my price range at the time).

I'm also pretty familiar with the modern Moog sound, as I've owned most of their modern offerings at one point or another. Personally I like the sound, so I'm fairly certain I'll enjoy it. To me the aesthetic the One is very nice. I really enjoyed the feel of my Voyager when I owned it (actually I've owned two), I loved the interface and UI. This synth seems to share some design philosophies. It seems very logically laid out.

Anyways, was good timing for me on this release, never really done anything this stupid. Haha, hopefully it pans out.
Sinamsis
Dave Peck wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Well as an Andromeda owner, I can tell you that unsealed pots are a big problem. .


Judging from the PCBA photos earlier in this thread:

https://i.imgur.com/2gOiwfx.jpg

...the pots / encoders look fine. They look similar to Bourns PEC11 series etc. and those types of components are very reliable. These types of parts are used in countless high-end pro audio products.

The three large rotary SWITCHES at the top of the three Osc sections (not all of the small rotary POTS/ENCODERS) do look like unsealed rotary SWITCHES, when compared to something like a Grayhill rotary switch. But that may also not be an issue. They may be completely reliable for this application. Lots of other gear use these types of rotary switches with no reliability issues.

Also, note that these three rotary switches are mounted on small break-away PCBA sections, connected to the main board with short ribbons. This is primarily done because of the taller mounting height of these parts and they needed to move the pcb further away from the front panel to put these parts at the right mounting height, but it also makes these parts very easily serviceable if you ever do need to replace one.


I missed that, thanks.
RickKleffel
Sinamsis wrote:
Well I preordered.


Congratulations! It looks like a hell of a good time! We trust you will grace us with links to your efforts on it. This has been a banner year for Flagships; Quantum, Prophet X and Moog One. Lot of controls and big screens are an excellent trend. I hope for those of us who don't need the keys, they bring out a tabletop. DSI Moog-6!
estin
Sinamsis wrote:
estin wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Well I preordered.


Fucking YOLO there bud! Guinness ftw!


Ha, I'm not sure, but I suspect that's sarcasm.


Not at all man, really excited for you. Its always a great day when someone is getting a new synth. Plus it looks something wonderful
Chrutil
Dave Peck wrote:
ScottA2A wrote:
Let's say you are using just OSC1 and play an octave or a chord. Will this beat frequency detune the notes in relation to each other without having to mix in the 2nd or 3rd oscillator?

Scott


I've been wondering about the function of that knob too. If it were just a standard 'fine tune' knob, used for slightly detuning oscs 2 & 3 from osc 1, why does osc 1 also have this knob?


I can be way off, but I interpreted that knob as the ‘beating offset’ from the 901 oscillator, where the oscillators share a single exponential converter and you can adjust a frequency offset in Hz, which is constant across the keyboard - as opposed to a voltage offset where the ‘beating’ increases with higher frequency. Don’t know why it would be on all three oscillators, but it doesn’t hurt...
Now that i’m writing a comment anyway I have to say that - pending a sound demo - this thing looks fantastic! Love the look, love the specs. Price is high, but this looks like it is a beautiful inspirational high quality musical instrument - and those don’t come cheap. I really want one, but I always want new stuff, so I have to hold off and wait. If I still want one by February/April then I’ll put my kids on eBay... Mr. Green
Illiac
Chrutil wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:
ScottA2A wrote:
Let's say you are using just OSC1 and play an octave or a chord. Will this beat frequency detune the notes in relation to each other without having to mix in the 2nd or 3rd oscillator?

Scott


I've been wondering about the function of that knob too. If it were just a standard 'fine tune' knob, used for slightly detuning oscs 2 & 3 from osc 1, why does osc 1 also have this knob?


I can be way off, but I interpreted that knob as the ‘beating offset’ from the 901 oscillator, where the oscillators share a single exponential converter and you can adjust a frequency offset in Hz, which is constant across the keyboard - as opposed to a voltage offset where the ‘beating’ increases with higher frequency. Don’t know why it would be on all three oscillators, but it doesn’t hurt...


Precisely. The fact that it's on all 3 oscillators makes a lot more sense when you're in unison mode, too.
GuyaGuy
Sinamsis wrote:
estin wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Well I preordered.


Fucking YOLO there bud! Guinness ftw!


Ha, I'm not sure, but I suspect that's sarcasm. And if I heard someone dropped that cash on a synth without hearing it, on specs alone, I would think they're a fucking idiot. Ha, and I probably am. But, this past year I took over running our business and I have built things up quite a bit. I've saved up a lot of cash. And tomorrow I'm formally buying the remainder of the business, so I thought I'd treat myself with some of the hard earned profits. I've made some fairly large purchases from Sweetwater, and certainly had problems in the past. They always took care of me. So I feel pretty secure in the purchase. I also have a strong preference for modern synths over vintage synths and have made very few exceptions (the A6 being one as I hadn't found a modern analog poly that I was happy with and was within my price range at the time).

I'm also pretty familiar with the modern Moog sound, as I've owned most of their modern offerings at one point or another. Personally I like the sound, so I'm fairly certain I'll enjoy it. To me the aesthetic the One is very nice. I really enjoyed the feel of my Voyager when I owned it (actually I've owned two), I loved the interface and UI. This synth seems to share some design philosophies. It seems very logically laid out.

Anyways, was good timing for me on this release, never really done anything this stupid. Haha, hopefully it pans out.


Congrats. Looking forward to hearing what you do with it. As for buying it sound unheard, I’m pretty sure it’ll sound like a Moog. All the huge differences people talk about are actually minor and disappear almost entirely in patching. So it’ll be wet and woody and all those Moody things and might have a little more top end or the triangles will be a bit more siney. But I think we all know it’s not gonna sound like a DX7.
EPTC
Chrutil wrote:
‘beating offset’


Sorry but my juvenile lowpass filter totally cracked up on this phrase. I agree we're all pretty excited about this thing, too.
EPTC
But to be more useful and not make knob jokes, has the Gear News page been posted here yet? With all these photos?

https://www.gearnews.com/more-moog-one-images-leaked-online-and-its-go rgeous/#comment-1861

Blairio
This is the first time I have looked at the Moog One, and I reckon price-wise it could actually be a bargain - if you look at the fact it is effectively three total recall Moog analog polysynths in one, and includes an impressive fx capability.

Comparison with cars of the same price is misleading. A typical new car will retain only 35-40% of its value after 3 years, so is a poor investment. I suspect this Moog instrument will retain its value over 3 years, and maybe even command higher prices if there is limited availability. This is not me advocating buying musical gear as an investment - i'm just suggesting that it is a less risky purchase as it won't be impacted by depreciation.
lisa
Here in Sweden I’ve seen people struggle to get even 60% of retail for their Minimoog Reissues. If it was limited to a few hundred One would probably go up in price but now it’s bound to drop in value.
Blairio
lisa wrote:
Here in Sweden I’ve seen people struggle to get even 60% of retail for their Minimoog Reissues. If it was limited to a few hundred One would probably go up in price but now it’s bound to drop in value.


Yes, but Reissues are still widely available new. I think things may change when the supply to the music shops ceases.

The humble Roland JU-06 is currently commanding a much higher price used than it cost new, I guess because of its limited production and its engaging sound.
nectarios
Sinamsis wrote:
Well I preordered. Ha I just took out a massive business loan and consolidated all my debt with it, so I thought I might just dig myself into a little more debt haha. But 2 year interest free financing certainly does take the edge off a bit.

This pretty much checks all the boxes for me. If it sounds as good as my Sub37 did, it'll be good enough for me I think. Kinda crazy to put down this kind of money sight unseen but Sweetwater has always taken care of me so there is some security there.

One last aside about the Andromeda, which I do feel is probably the closest comparable synth in terms of features... I don't think every unit is doomed to die. I think there was a bad batch where voice chips have failed. If you have a surviving unit then you're probably in good shape. Secondly, the pots suck for every unit I believe. It's a design issue. Third if you really love your A6 you should keep your eyes peeled for a parts board for security. But really, I think they're probably ok. I'll probably keep mine for now, maybe loan it out to someone until I have more space. I think the One should be better for more percussive and plucked sounds if the envelopes are anything like the preceding Moogs. I do find that the envelopes of the A6, while better than most people say, are not quite as snappy as I'd like. But it's great for pads and drones.

Oh and one last thing, I swear. The UI of the A6.... I do find that it's just not intuitive. There are so many modulation sources, but you have to assign them from the destination. It's just very counter-intuitive for me. And the screen is laggy, particularly when editing envelopes. These are known firmware bugs that were never addressed. That said I think someone has been reverse engineering the firmware and updating it, but it's been a several year process and is moving at the speed of molasses and likely very intermittently.


First off, congrats and I hope (I am pretty sure actually) you'll love it and it will be fine. Takes some balls to drop that insane amount of cash on something you've only seen pics of. But you love the modern Moog sound, so you'll love this one as well.

The A6 envelopes are digital and have the pros and cons of digital envelopes. I suspect the One envelopes are also digital, but that is just me assuming that. Anyway, its fair enough you find the A6 UI, counter intuitive.

As for the One as an investment, I hate looking at synths as one. I just buy them to make music. Will it retain its price? Can't say right now as the number they will produce, possible bugs/issues and how good it will actually sound are all factors that need to be accounted for and for which there is no info as of yet.
No modern Moog retained its value though from the Voyagers to the Sub37s. Maybe in a couple more decades they will go up in price.
iguano
I saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was interesting.

Adjusted for inflation:

Oberheim OB-8 $11,000
Yamaha DX-7 $5,000
Yamaha CS-80 $17,000
SC Prophet-5 $10,000
E-MU Emulator $27,000
Moog Memorymoog $12,000
nectarios
iguano wrote:
I saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was interesting.

Adjusted for inflation:

Oberheim OB-8 $11,000
Yamaha DX-7 $5,000
Yamaha CS-80 $17,000
SC Prophet-5 $10,000
E-MU Emulator $27,000
Moog Memorymoog $12,000


Saw this post and thought it was interesting.

latigid on
iguano wrote:
I saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was interesting.

Adjusted for inflation:

Oberheim OB-8 $11,000
Yamaha DX-7 $5,000
Yamaha CS-80 $17,000
SC Prophet-5 $10,000
E-MU Emulator $27,000
Moog Memorymoog $12,000


Interesting indeed, and arguably the modern synths do much more than the oldies. As a counterpoint, consider the far lower cost of PCB design, fab, semiconductors, a larger market etc.


^^ yep wink
nectarios




Correct me if I am wrong please, but apparently the rotary switches in the 8k Moog synth are the same as the Behringer Model D, with the exception of the Behringer model being "somewhat sealed".


Also



I am posting these here for the people that don't have facebook accounts.
anselmi
nectarios wrote:



ok accounts.


maths at Moog Music:

8x Behringer D = 2400
recycled Voyager XL cabinet = 500
fancy panel and display 100
2x behringer multi-fx pedals = 80

final = 3080

"great! let´s do it" hihi
minimalist
lisa wrote:
Here in Sweden I’ve seen people struggle to get even 60% of retail for their Minimoog Reissues. If it was limited to a few hundred One would probably go up in price but now it’s bound to drop in value.


I don't think anyone should expect it to hold its value. These are bought to be used and if they retain a good percentage of their original purchase price, that should be considered a bonus.
Panason
nectarios wrote:




Thank you for posting this. It is precisely why I keep saying modern analog gear is overpriced ... technology from 30-40 years ago cannot cost the same as it did then. Of course assembly in the US costs more than assembly in China, but still... Electronic musicians who cannot / will not use software synths are a small minority that is still being milked hard... which is why Behringer's entry is a big deal for the likes of me. The only (somewhat) analog poly options for 1k or less are the Peak and the Deepmind, which isn't enough.

But of course Moog is the Apple of the analog synth world and do not make instruments for musos on a budget. High price = prestige. Low price is an unattractive feature for Moog's target market demographic.

I'm not complaining about the cost of Moog keyboards here, as they are (mostly) quality instruments for real keyboard players (not electronic musicians banging out beats) who play them live on stage. They have to be over-engineered and made to last.. They're still overpriced but I don't care how others spend their money on synths.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
Panason wrote:
But of course Moog is the Apple of the analog synth world and do not make instruments for musos on a budget. High price = prestige. Low price is an unattractive feature for Moog's target market demographic.

you are only paying for the brand name, not the cheap electronics contained within.

bob moog must be turning in his grave!
mor4sso
panason wrote:
I'm not complaining about the cost of Moog keyboards here,
panason wrote:
They're still overpriced.


k
nectarios
Well the expensive prices are clearly working out for the company though, innit.
I think the astronomically priced Moog modular re-issues, sold out and its not like the company is doing bad as people that love the Moog sound, have connected that sound to something that is of amazing quality and is expected (some say even that it should) to cost an awful lot.

So from their point of view (and I think we can all agree that they are just another business that wants to make the most cash possible), this is the way to go.

I don't love the Moog sound so for me everything they've made is overpriced.
Its beyond me how the most popular filter in the world, is not gain compensated when the resonance goes up and when in self oscillation, the output goes silent in the low end!... but that is just my subjective view.
numan7
anselmi wrote:
nectarios wrote:



ok accounts.


maths at Moog Music:

8x Behringer D = 2400
recycled Voyager XL cabinet = 500
fancy panel and display 100
2x behringer multi-fx pedals = 80

final = 3080

"great! let´s do it" hihi


Miley Cyrus well that does it, then- i think i'm gonna wait for The Behringer Two! Viking


cheers
GuyaGuy
nectarios wrote:
iguano wrote:
I saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was interesting.

Adjusted for inflation:

Oberheim OB-8 $11,000
Yamaha DX-7 $5,000
Yamaha CS-80 $17,000
SC Prophet-5 $10,000
E-MU Emulator $27,000
Moog Memorymoog $12,000


Saw this post and thought it was interesting.


OTOH labor costs are more expensive, software development is more expensive, R&D hasn’t got any cheaper, wood is more expensive, touch screens are more expensive because they didn’t exist in the 80s, demand for huge amounts of memory raises costs, marketing costs are higher, property overhead is higher, etc

But yeah cheap analog synths wth those cheap parts are out there but they are fairly limited machines.
bkbirge
Panason wrote:
nectarios wrote:




Thank you for posting this. It is precisely why I keep saying modern analog gear is overpriced ... technology from 30-40 years ago cannot cost the same as it did then. Of course assembly in the US costs more than assembly in China, but still...


Gearheads all over the internet on their specialized hobby forums always like to argue about the cost of parts as if that's the bulk of what goes into pricing a product for market.

Labor is the driving cost. R&D (engineers are not cheap labor) and passing regulatory bodies (lawyers are not cheap labor) is a huge cost also and if you think "well they've had the tech for 50 years" then you don't understand what it takes to integrate technology in the modern world.

They aren't making clones with the same parts, and even if they were they still have to deal with modern laws and regulations that the builders in the 70's didn't.

I guarantee if Moog could sell the synth cheaper and not go bankrupt they would because they'd get more market share.

Maybe their corporate culture and process isn't the same as a Behringer or Dave Smith and that could contribute to a cost difference but if it was really out of whack they wouldn't be in business.

All that cheap Chinese manufactured stuff? China REQUIRES any foreign business to hand over their IP as just the normal part of doing business, perhaps Moog does not want to do that as they may feel their designs are the heart of their value. Behringer would have no problem doing that as they make very little that is original in concept, essentially they are leveraging the R&D that were paid for by others.

Point is, there are a multitude of factors at play that have nothing to do with parts costs when it comes to product pricing yet in these and other forums there is the constant drumbeat of "why does my XYZ cost so much when it's just made out of $0.33 of plastic?"
Panason
Quote:

I guarantee if Moog could sell the synth cheaper and not go bankrupt they would because they'd get more market share.


Maximising profits is what matters. Their MO is to focus on the (largely American) high income synth nostalgia market.

All analog gear sold today is priced according to how much the vintage stuff is selling for. It has added value on top of what it costs to just manufacture and to just give the company a decent return on investment.

Moog will charge more than they could have done, because they know they have a market.

Black Corp will charge a premium for Deckard's Dream because the vintage Yamaha synth it is based on costs what it costs.

DINSync and the official RE303 assembler man charge more than they could have done for the RE303 because of what the TB costs in the 2nd hand market. They not only make a decent profit, they make the extra on top because of the situation.

It is what it is, I am not blaming anyone for making big profits from their work. People are vain and will pay, it' s always been a rich kids' hobby. So long as you're not ripping anyone off making money is not wrong per se.

But someone else like Behringer will eventually step in and undercut you and that's all good too.
nectarios
Panason wrote:

It is what it is, I am not blaming anyone for making big profits from their work. People are vain and will pay, it' s always been a rich kids' hobby. So long as you're not ripping anyone off making money is not wrong per se.

But someone else like Behringer will eventually step in and undercut you and that's all good too.


I think Behringer will impact what we will see from now on.
Moog can never compete at budget products, so they are wise to play the expensive as f*ck card for the people that love expensive as f*ck things from their hero companies.

I mean if the Behringer D and Neutron, are anything to go by, they have that part of the market in their back pocket.
Sir Ruff
I "get" the price arguments from a parts standpoint, but no one is getting similarly upset over the prices of the rack-based ~$6K SE Code 8 or the $3500 Deckard's Dream which is all SMT and uses (IMHO) very cheap feeling sliders (certiainly nothing like the Yamaha originals).

Can you imagine what a keyboard version of either of those would cost based on the current prices?

Paul Schreiber is also not making, nor has ever made, a polysynth. So while it's all well and good to comment from the sidelines, his comments would be more valuable if he had produced (and successfully sold) something of similar value already.
Sinamsis
You know, the assumption that people will buy this based off of some loyalty to Moog is false IMO. Yes it’s expensive. Yes the Moog label adds to the price. But again, name a modern analog poly with similar specs in any price range. The Schmidt? Ha ok. What else? Maybe I’m missing something. Personally I’m not a Moog fan boy, and for the most part their synths have retailed for more than I’m willing to pay (I’ve only bought second hand until this); they depreciate nicely on the second hand market, especially when Moog releases a newer “better” model a few years later. But I’ve been on the hunt for a modern analog poly with these sorts of specs. And here it is. So I’m willing to take a chance. If DSI had done it, they would’ve had my money. But the Prophet 6 was just too limited in terms of architecture for my liking. Anyways I could care less who’s name is on it. If it sounds comparable to other modern Moogs (or not, but equally “good” whatever that means) I’ll be happy. They’d really have to fuck this up. Otherwise, it’s a preorder. No money has been taken, they just put you’re name on the list. And I suspect if you don’t get in on the first batch you might be waiting a little for the next batch. Personally it’s good timing for me. By the time it ships I’ll be finishing up the busiest time of the year for me. January/February is usually slow for me. My youngest will still be small enough to throw in a carrier and wear while I jam. I’ll have time for music. Much later than that I’ll still have some time but not what I would like to explore a new synth.
Sinamsis
As another note, I don’t understand the assertion that SMT is in any way inferior to through hold equivalents. If it allows for a more compact and lighter machine I don’t see how this is a problem.
Sir Ruff
Sinamsis wrote:
As another note, I don’t understand the assertion that SMT is in any way inferior to through hold equivalents. If it allows for a more compact and lighter machine I don’t see how this is a problem.


It's not, but it is cheaper to make, which is the point I was making above.
umma gumma
Sinamsis, congrats!

looking forward to hearing how this thing sounds.

based on prices of used memorymoogs, it doesn't seem out of line IMO

it looks like a hell of a polysynth
lisa
minimalist wrote:
lisa wrote:
Here in Sweden I’ve seen people struggle to get even 60% of retail for their Minimoog Reissues. If it was limited to a few hundred One would probably go up in price but now it’s bound to drop in value.


I don't think anyone should expect it to hold its value. These are bought to be used and if they retain a good percentage of their original purchase price, that should be considered a bonus.

I agree 100%. My post was a reply to someone who claimed One to be a good financial investment. It’ll probably never be if taking inflation into account but if it where I’d expect it to take like half a lifetime to reach breakeven and only if it’s kept in great condition.
Panason
So is there any word on what the LAN port is for?

Is Moog giving us a new synth/sequencer inter-connection system ??
Sinamsis
Sir Ruff
Sorry that was directed towards you. More of general statement, as it’s come up several times and particularly on GS say it’s SMT, like it’s a bad thing. Ha but that’s typical GS.
Sinamsis
Panason wrote:
So is there any word on what the LAN port is for?

Is Moog giving us a new synth/sequencer inter-connection system ??


Ha I wouldn’t hold my breath. Modal use it for OS updates (the files are too big to efficiently transmit via MIDI) and for their HTML editor. I assume it’ll be something along those lines. I think next week we’ll have a lot more answers.
EPTC
lisa wrote:
My post was a reply to someone who claimed One to be a good financial investment. It’ll probably never be if taking inflation into account.


Totally agree. But to be fun, there's examples where Moogs outperform inflation. Example: 1980-era minimoog bought for $1500 MSRP now gets around $4,000, while inflation puts that original $1500 at around $3500.

Interestingly, that's the price of a reissue Model D. So it justifies the price of things, too.

(Voyagers, however, have seemed to not retain their value and a 1970 Model D, bought for $1500 also underperforms, as that's 10,000 in inflation and most often sell for half of that)

Of course, the old adage is if you want money to go up in value, spend it on money (bonds or stocks) - If you want your life to go up in value, spend it on experiences (purchasing synths counts).
EPTC
nectarios wrote:

Saw this post and thought it was interesting.



This is the silliest argument in the world. This is only valid if you were buying random ziplock bags of parts. But you're paying for human time for assembly, testing, fabrication, and design, more than anything.

Maybe this is interesting comparing Mouser carts to an old Radio Shack catalog, but that's it.
Panason
Shoulda called it The Moog Index ...

but it is America after all.
EPTC
Panason wrote:
Shoulda called it The Moog Index ...

but is it America after all.


(Ha!)

Bet it would have a killer ramp wave.
Sir Ruff
Sinamsis wrote:
Sir Ruff
Sorry that was directed towards you. More of general statement, as it’s come up several times and particularly on GS say it’s SMT, like it’s a bad thing. Ha but that’s typical GS.


Yeah, no worries—that’s how I read it, but just wanted to be clear I wasn’t on that particular bandwagon. Best example I’ve seen of “why SMT doesn’t matter” was the recent post on GS by Oldgearguy where they showed that the difference in filter response between the new (SMT) and old (through hole) SEM was almost entirely due to a single capacitor swap.
Dave Peck
bkbirge wrote:

Gearheads all over the internet on their specialized hobby forums always like to argue about the cost of parts as if that's the bulk of what goes into pricing a product for market.

Labor is the driving cost. R&D (engineers are not cheap labor) and passing regulatory bodies (lawyers are not cheap labor) is a huge cost also and if you think "well they've had the tech for 50 years" then you don't understand what it takes to integrate technology in the modern world.

They aren't making clones with the same parts, and even if they were they still have to deal with modern laws and regulations that the builders in the 70's didn't.

I guarantee if Moog could sell the synth cheaper and not go bankrupt they would because they'd get more market share.

Maybe their corporate culture and process isn't the same as a Behringer or Dave Smith and that could contribute to a cost difference but if it was really out of whack they wouldn't be in business.

All that cheap Chinese manufactured stuff? China REQUIRES any foreign business to hand over their IP as just the normal part of doing business, perhaps Moog does not want to do that as they may feel their designs are the heart of their value. Behringer would have no problem doing that as they make very little that is original in concept, essentially they are leveraging the R&D that were paid for by others.

Point is, there are a multitude of factors at play that have nothing to do with parts costs when it comes to product pricing yet in these and other forums there is the constant drumbeat of "why does my XYZ cost so much when it's just made out of $0.33 of plastic?"


Lots of good points about what is behind the cost of manufacturing other than just the price of the parts, I just want to offer a couple of points to clarify -

1. Regulatory - The cost of this is not due to lawyers, it is all associated with engineering work. Assuming the product contains any digital circuitry (which older analog synths often didn't have before they had patch memory), the product has to be taken to an EMC test lab and subjected to various tests for both emissions (excessive RF coming out of the unit, either through the air or through connected cables) and immunity (does it continue to operate properly when exposed to RF or static discharge or contaminated AC line voltage), and then to an electrical safety testing agency (like UL) and tested for compliance to various standards for safety against electric shock hazard and fire hazard. Any issues discovered in these tests have to be addressed by fixing the design and retesting.

In addition, the product's manufacturer may have the product "Listed" with the Safety agency, which involves having the product re-tested at the manufacturing site on a regular basis to assure it has not been changed in a way that makes it no longer comply with the standard, and this "Follow-Up" program involves an additional and ongoing hefty annual expense.

And you're right, gear built in the 70s and 80s often didn't go through ANY of this. There are still some boutique companies that don't do this testing on their products but domestic and international requirements are getting more and more strict and they are scrutinizing products on the market much more thoroughly now than they did in the past. It's a MUCH bigger risk to skip this testing now than it used to be. You could easily get your entire shipment of product stuck in customs entering the EU and lose it all if you can't prove your product complies with the standards.

2. The idea that contract manufacturers in China always 'require' their customer companies to hand over their IP is not correct. It is the rare exception, not the rule. I have managed numerous projects to build electronic products in China and this question has never even come up on any project I have worked on. The agreements with the China CMs are really not much different from the agreements with a U.S. based contract manufacturer.
ziggomatic
When are we gonna be able to hear what the darn thing sounds like?????
rod_zero
I love what Moog is doing.

And if Behringer want to show how it should be done price wise I would like to see them offer a similar product: 16 voices, multitimbral, 3 full OSC, 2 filters, etc.

So far their designs have been simple or clones, very little R&D.

I want to see what Behringer can do with the enormous capital they possess, I want to see a super synth from them and see how it cost compares to moog, waldorf, modal, etc.

Because at the end of the day they right now they are just cashing in with the clones but not delivering anything new or exciting.
Muse FTW
Sinamsis wrote:
You know, the assumption that people will buy this based off of some loyalty to Moog is false IMO. Yes it’s expensive. Yes the Moog label adds to the price. But again, name a modern analog poly with similar specs in any price range. The Schmidt? Ha ok. What else? Maybe I’m missing something. Personally I’m not a Moog fan boy, and for the most part their synths have retailed for more than I’m willing to pay (I’ve only bought second hand until this); they depreciate nicely on the second hand market, especially when Moog releases a newer “better” model a few years later. But I’ve been on the hunt for a modern analog poly with these sorts of specs. And here it is. So I’m willing to take a chance. If DSI had done it, they would’ve had my money. But the Prophet 6 was just too limited in terms of architecture for my liking. Anyways I could care less who’s name is on it. If it sounds comparable to other modern Moogs (or not, but equally “good” whatever that means) I’ll be happy. They’d really have to fuck this up. Otherwise, it’s a preorder. No money has been taken, they just put you’re name on the list. And I suspect if you don’t get in on the first batch you might be waiting a little for the next batch. Personally it’s good timing for me. By the time it ships I’ll be finishing up the busiest time of the year for me. January/February is usually slow for me. My youngest will still be small enough to throw in a carrier and wear while I jam. I’ll have time for music. Much later than that I’ll still have some time but not what I would like to explore a new synth.


Preach. I know it's an expensive instrument, but from a specs POV it is unchallenged - and quite frankly putting a lot of power under the hood, unlike anything I've seen before.

ziggomatic wrote:
When are we gonna be able to hear what the darn thing sounds like?????


Monday, IIRC.
zeit
Oh wow, this thing is a beast love ....a *monophonic* Moog already sounds sweet, but polyphonic??? Hard to imagine... w00t
bkbirge
Dave Peck wrote:
2. The idea that contract manufacturers in China always 'require' their customer companies to hand over their IP is not correct. It is the rare exception, not the rule. I have managed numerous projects to build electronic products in China and this question has never even come up on any project I have worked on. The agreements with the China CMs are really not much different from the agreements with a U.S. based contract manufacturer.


Great post, thanks for sharing! On this China point I will defer to your experience but I will point out this article (and many more like it)...
https://www.chinalawblog.com/2018/03/how-to-give-away-your-ip-in-china -without-realizing-it.html
Dave Peck
bkbirge wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:
2. The idea that contract manufacturers in China always 'require' their customer companies to hand over their IP is not correct. It is the rare exception, not the rule. I have managed numerous projects to build electronic products in China and this question has never even come up on any project I have worked on. The agreements with the China CMs are really not much different from the agreements with a U.S. based contract manufacturer.


Great post, thanks for sharing! On this China point I will defer to your experience but I will point out this article (and many more like it)...
https://www.chinalawblog.com/2018/03/how-to-give-away-your-ip-in-china -without-realizing-it.html


Yes, that article describes ways that a company might be REALLY sloppy with their contract negotiations and with the way they write their purchase order with the CM, which could give the CM some big fat loopholes to appropriate aspects of the design, or ownership of the tooling, etc. But that kind of poor business practice could happen with ANY contract manufacturer, foreign or domestic. Just don't do that. With ANY supplier of ANY part or subassembly or finished product.

And aside from using good legal documentation, you can also just not release certain design files to the CM so it's effectively just impossible for them to figure out the actual design. Only give them the actual files needed to build and test the product, not all the engineering source files. It's really standard procedure.

Lastly, the article mentions the problems that can happen when you rely too much on the CM's engineering to develop the product design, rather than doing it all yourself, and this is certainly true. Even if they don't "steal" your IP, they can hold your business hostage and prevent you from easily being able to move to a different CM if they created and have control of some important aspect of the design because you didn't require them to deliver the engineering files that resulted from their work. Again, just don't do that. With ANY contract manufacturer.

We're getting OT, but sometimes I can't resist tossing out some free consulting work that might benefit someone reading this. Hope this helps!
digitalganesha
While I have no doubt this thing will sound good, and yes I have spent thousands on individual pieces of gear and instruments... but the 8K price has only done one thing; make the price of Dekkard's Dream look absolutely beautiful.
bkbirge
digitalganesha wrote:
While I have no doubt this thing will sound good, and yes I have spent thousands on individual pieces of gear and instruments... but the 8K price has only done one thing; make the price of Dekkard's Dream look absolutely beautiful.


I don't think Moog's One is that far off in comparison. The Dekkard is 8 voice, dual oscillator, (is it single or dual timbral?). The One is 8 or 16 voice, triple oscillator, and triple-timbral. Seems no matter how you cut it you are getting between 1.5 and 2x the Dekkard capability with the One. I still say the final arbiter will be the sound demos, without effects preferably.
latigid on
The One also has a keyboard etc.
Muff McMuff
Pay $500 extra to secure model with a low serial number 2....10 , but its worth it because you get a letter and a signed photo of the techs that built your synth! LOL.
Panason
That's for the collectors who will keep it sealed and sell it for at least twice the price (plus inflation) in 10 years' time. Assuming things continue as they are.

The more money you have, the more money you can make!

Don't stand in the sidelines. If you have 8k spare, just buy the thing - if you have a secure place to keep it, it's better than buying gold.

Probably.

I am available for expert advice on secure investments, BTW meh
bkbirge
Panason wrote:

I am available for expert advice on secure investments, BTW meh


lol


Also, I sincerely hope the Moog One has a "6 voices tuned" equivalent message after powerup and a wait of 6 or so agonizing seconds while every light and screen goes blank.
lisa
Sinamsis wrote:
But again, name a modern analog poly with similar specs in any price range. [...] I’ve been on the hunt for a modern analog poly with these sorts of specs.

This intrigues me. What are the specs you've been looking for? Can you specify?

(Mind, I'm not out to criticize your choices in any way. In my opinion everybody should buy whatever makes them happy, if they can afford it. I am genuinely interested in the specs you where looking for.)
Bob Borries
Panason wrote:
So is there any word on what the LAN port is for?

Is Moog giving us a new synth/sequencer inter-connection system ??


China is struggling to break into the U.S. music charts and is secretly adding computer chips into synths at Moog's Chinese Production facility. Why? To spy on talented song writers, steal our compositions, and deprive us of our natural body fluids. The LAN port is part of this sinister plan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-chi na-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
Panason
Good to see you still here Bob. You have the best avatar!

I heard that the LAN port is made by Behringer!
Sinamsis
lisa wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
But again, name a modern analog poly with similar specs in any price range. [...] I’ve been on the hunt for a modern analog poly with these sorts of specs.

This intrigues me. What are the specs you've been looking for? Can you specify?

(Mind, I'm not out to criticize your choices in any way. In my opinion everybody should buy whatever makes them happy, if they can afford it. I am genuinely interested in the specs you where looking for.)



Specifically.... Modern VCO based synth with more than 2 envelopes and more than 2 LFOs, and ideally a voice count more than 8. Extra points for multitimbral. Ideally knob per function at least for basic functions, flexible modulation routings, and an intuitive UI. Preferably two filters. The closest I've gotten have been the A6 (which doesn't check the box as far as modern) and the 008 (which had several limitations comparatively speaking). The flexible audio routing, 3 oscillators, complex wave shapes, large screen, built in effects are icing on the cake. Oh and the look, I really find this a visually stunning instrument. This synth basically checks every box for what I was looking for. It would have to sound pretty bad for me to pass on it. That said, I still have time to back out if it does sound that bad. I'm sure I'll have to work through some bugs as an early adopter, but I'm ok with that (it can't be as bad as the 008). Ha, I guess others are not as impressed by the feature set.
JohnLRice
Bob Borries wrote:
Panason wrote:
So is there any word on what the LAN port is for?

Is Moog giving us a new synth/sequencer inter-connection system ??


China is struggling to break into the U.S. music charts and is secretly adding computer chips into synths at Moog's Chinese Production facility. Why? To spy on talented song writers, steal our compositions, and deprive us of our natural body fluids. The LAN port is part of this sinister plan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-chi na-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

jawdrop Wow, great and shocking article, thanks! thumbs up
Dave Peck
Bob Borries wrote:


China is struggling to break into the U.S. music charts and is secretly adding computer chips into synths at Moog's Chinese Production facility. Why? To spy on talented song writers, steal our compositions, and deprive us of our natural body fluids. The LAN port is part of this sinister plan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-chi na-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies


I have no idea if something like this has really happened or not, but the description of HOW it was done in that article makes no sense. According to the article, agents impersonating employees from the American customer company instructed/brided/coerced the staff at the China CM to "implant" this extra surface mount component on the U.S.-bound motherboards.

It's not that simple. You would need to have access to the engineering source files for the bare boards and have a complete understanding of the schematic design of the boards (neither of which would likely be at the CM) and then have the ability to edit the Gerber files to redesign the board and add new traces to design the part into the product in some sensible and useful way, and update the SMT pick & place data to provide the SMT machines with instructions for where to put it on the board. Not to mention all of the supporting manufacturing documentation like Bill of Materials that would have to be modified so the part gets pulled from inventory and loaded onto the SMT machine, creating an entry for the new part in the main MRP/ERP software database that the CM uses to control all movement of parts into stock and through assembly, etc.

And who exactly would do all of this? The imposters? No, they wouldn't have any access to any of this. The staff at the CM? I don't see how they could possibly do all of that engineering revision work without any of them even once contacting any of their REAL, well-established technical contacts at the U.S. customer about any of this during any of their routine meetings and emails and bringing this to the attention of the U.S. company: 'Wait - You're making WHAT change to our motherboard design? Who authorized this?'.

If this story isn't just plain false, it's missing a lot of important explanation about exactly how it could even be possible for this to have happened.
Angroc
So, why tri-timbral? Why stop there? Is there a hardware limitation to this? The more parts, the easier it is for people to go through the mental gymnastics of: "oh! this is bang for buck since I have so many synths in one!" Or how multiple parts enable more layering, like hard panning two identical voices left and right. I do appreciate the secondary outs and FX per part though. Kinda makes up for it.

Which leads me to the question: does anyone know how the three parts share voices? Again, I love the A6 for it's dynamic sharing (I hate it when you have to assign voices parts(*cough*Poly Evolver) or worse: if the parts are set to fixed amounts (*Cough* Modern Prophets)). Here's to hoping it blows the DSI stuff out the water in that regard atleast!

But damn, what a looker! If the voices are dynamic, and it's modulation routings flexible enough, I'll have a hard time keeping the temptation at bay.
Illiac
Angroc wrote:
does anyone know how the three parts share voices?


you assign however many voices you wish for each of the 3 sections (ex: 1 for section 1, 2 for section 2, 5 for section 3), along with the keymapping. Each multitimbral section has it's own note stealing modes. You can also layer them, as well.
Panason
So it sounds like it has extensive digital control. I look forward to checking out the comments about that elsewhere!

Quote:
And who exactly would do all of this? The imposters? No, they wouldn't have any access to any of this.


Maybe they were merely posing as imposters. Guinness ftw!
gentle_attack
rod_zero wrote:
Because at the end of the day they right now they are just cashing in with the clones but not delivering anything new or exciting.


Same reason Hollywood does remakes and comic book/ regular book adaptations. Safe. People already "like" the characters/concept/etc.

There are amazing films that were total flops. There are awesome synths that didn't sell very well (Tempest PloyEvolver... TB-303, tons of ways to cut that one).


Tried and true, always a safe bet
booger
...
PYJAMAGROOVE
Polyphonic aftertouch please - linked to the Eventide (polyphonic!) onboard effects. It would be nice co control the shimmer's depth of each key with the polyphonic aftertouch no? Dead Banana
Waz
Sinamsis wrote:
As another note, I don’t understand the assertion that SMT is in any way inferior to through hold equivalents. If it allows for a more compact and lighter machine I don’t see how this is a problem.


The only difference in sound I have heard in SMD components is between MELF/ TH resistors and standard SMD resistors. Is there a difference in audio? Yes. Is that difference better? That's subjective. However, SSL uses MELFs in all of their audio signal paths. Many other pro-audio companies avoid standard SMD resistors in their signal paths as well. But still...it's all subjective.
Rex Coil 7
Panason wrote:
So it sounds like it has extensive digital control. I look forward to checking out the comments about that elsewhere!

Quote:
And who exactly would do all of this? The imposters? No, they wouldn't have any access to any of this.


Maybe they were merely posing as imposters. Guinness ftw!
The most recent information suggests the Chinese military has been overseeing the project. Embedded tiny chips into smartphones and other digital tech used by pretty much everyone. It's also been alleged that server motherboards have been compromised by small "chips" hidden within other components. It isn't limited to just music related devices. A circle of ~friends~ that I belong to which were all involved in nuclear security have been buzzing about this for a few weeks. However it's also publicly discussed.

Full disclosure: I'm not technically adept enough to deeply describe this situation. Asking me about details that would describe how this could be accomplished won't get you anywhere because it's above my pay grade. All I know is that this story has been bouncing around for a few days now.

Is it true? Why not!

Of course Apple, Amazon, others are dismissing this, but I would remind you that their market value is sensitive to these types of claims so it would stand to reason manufacturers such as they would deny the notion. Let's also remember that Facebook has always told us their ability to secure our personal information was "beyond reproach" .... and yet over fifty million accounts were hacked last week. These mega giant manufacturers will always say whatever it takes to protect their interests. Things like faulty airbags and poisoned bottles of Tylenol have turned out to be truthful along with many others over the years. While that doesn't make this particular story true (or false) it needs to be taken into consideration. In other words ... stranger things than the Chinese using micro-tech to spy on others have happened!

My suggestion is to wait until this story is either proved or impeached.

seriously, i just don't get it
Man-In-A-Suitcase
Beware! Your new Moog One maybe spying on you! hihi
EPTC
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Beware! Your new Moog One maybe spying on you! hihi


16 Voices and ALL EARS! (haha) lol
red
The Official Moog One
Launch Is Days Away...



new moog website
tehyar
It's amusing how they're still doing all the buildup after Sweetwater kinda blew the tension out of the launch. hihi
Panason
I'm so excited I can barely type this comment
Sir Ruff
tehyar wrote:
It's amusing how they're still doing all the buildup after Sweetwater kinda blew the tension out of the launch. hihi


SW clearly blew it as far as the release date. If anything, sticking to the originally planned date only serves to build interest--a week isn't really anything in terms of the average synth users attention span.
tehyar
Yea, true. I’m also looking forward to seeing and hearing it anyway. But the presentation of it still has the feeling of: someone blew the punchline, but they’re gonna go right ahead and tell the joke like it never happened. w00t
Man-In-A-Suitcase
tehyar wrote:
It's amusing how they're still doing all the buildup after Sweetwater kinda blew the tension out of the launch. hihi

the buildup by those losers on GS is comical. and no one has ever heard it yet.
paults
Quote:
Paul Schreiber is also not making, nor has ever made, a polysynth. So while it's all well and good to comment from the sidelines, his comments would be more valuable if he had produced (and successfully sold) something of similar value already.


Hmmmm....'expensive things I have designed with lotsa parts'....hmmmm...

a) CAT scanner calibration system, $300K in 1985 dollars
b) F-22 weapons computer, $90,000ea (well it was 1 board out of 3 in it, this 1 board was $90,000)
c) I worked on the F-35 video flight recorder for the rear gun camera, that was about $11,000 but to be fair only had about 200 parts and 1 part was $8,000 so there's that

I designed a CPU board for a 672-user telephone analog-to-T1 channel bank. The boards had a requirement to work 25years minimum with 0 failures over -40C to +85C. The boards were 2 per set, they were fully redundant (you can yank 1 out of the rack and the other takes over and no calls are dropped). I probably spent the longest time on that 1 design, like 14 months straight. The board set was about $9,000 in 1988 dollars.

I had to run 10,000 Monte Carlo simulations over the MTBF/FIT calculations (Google if you want more info) on a microVAX to prove to Bell Labs that we could meet 25yrs between failures. Then we had to build custom "shaker tables" and a lightning simulator that the 8ft 24in rack could roll into.
tehyar
paults wrote:
Quote:
Paul Schreiber is also not making, nor has ever made, a polysynth. So while it's all well and good to comment from the sidelines, his comments would be more valuable if he had produced (and successfully sold) something of similar value already.


Hmmmm....'expensive things I have designed with lotsa parts'....hmmmm...

a) CAT scanner calibration system, $300K in 1985 dollars
b) F-22 weapons computer, $90,000ea (weill it was 1 board out of 3 in it, this 1 board was $90,000)
c) I worked on the F-35 video flight recorder for the rear gun camera, that was about $11,000 but to be fair only had about 200 parts

I designed a CPU board for a 672-user telephone analog-to-T1 channel bank. The boards had a requirement to work 25years minimum with 0 failures over -40C to +85C. The boards were 2 per set, they were fully redundant (you can yank 1 out of the rack and the other takes over and no calls are dropped). I probably spent the longest time on that 1 design, like 14 months straight. The board set was about $9,000 in 1988 dollars.

I had to run 10,000 Monte Carlo simulations over the MTBF/FIT calculations (Google if you want more info) on a microVAX to prove to Bell Labs that we could meet 25yrs between failures. Then we had to build custom "shaker tables" and a lightning simulator that the 8ft 24in rack could roll into.


I once drew, acid etched, and soldered together a hand drawn circuit that could drive an 8-segment lcd.

/fistbump
paults
Quote:
I once drew, acid etched, and soldered together a hand drawn circuit that could drive an 8-segment lcd.


I started etching stuff in 1977 at Tandy/Radio Shack. Making TV 'Pong' clones. The etcher was in a former bathroom. No vents, no gloves, I was getting ferric chloride over all my clothes. At one point 2 fingernails fell off.

I had to quit doing that because I was allergic to the Kodak developer solution used to process the boards before etching.
Sir Ruff
paults wrote:
Quote:
Paul Schreiber is also not making, nor has ever made, a polysynth. So while it's all well and good to comment from the sidelines, his comments would be more valuable if he had produced (and successfully sold) something of similar value already.


Hmmmm....'expensive things I have designed with lotsa parts'....hmmmm...

a) CAT scanner calibration system, $300K in 1985 dollars
b) F-22 weapons computer, $90,000ea (well it was 1 board out of 3 in it, this 1 board was $90,000)
c) I worked on the F-35 video flight recorder for the rear gun camera, that was about $11,000 but to be fair only had about 200 parts and 1 part was $18,000 so there's that

I designed a CPU board for a 672-user telephone analog-to-T1 channel bank. The boards had a requirement to work 25years minimum with 0 failures over -40C to +85C. The boards were 2 per set, they were fully redundant (you can yank 1 out of the rack and the other takes over and no calls are dropped). I probably spent the longest time on that 1 design, like 14 months straight. The board set was about $9,000 in 1988 dollars.

I had to run 10,000 Monte Carlo simulations over the MTBF/FIT calculations (Google if you want more info) on a microVAX to prove to Bell Labs that we could meet 25yrs between failures. Then we had to build custom "shaker tables" and a lightning simulator that the 8ft 24in rack could roll into.


My statement wasn't questioning your technical ability or your background experience. If was specifically in regard to you not having built/sold a polysynth.
Panason
Quote:
b) F-22 weapons computer, $90,000ea (well it was 1 board out of 3 in it, this 1 board was $90,000)
c) I worked on the F-35 video flight recorder for the rear gun camera, that was about $11,000 but to be fair only had about 200 parts and 1 part was $8,000 so there's that


Dad must be proud.
tehyar
paults wrote:
Quote:
I once drew, acid etched, and soldered together a hand drawn circuit that could drive an 8-segment lcd.


I started etching stuff in 1977 at Tandy/Radio Shack. Making TV 'Pong' clones. The etcher was in a former bathroom. No vents, no gloves, I was getting ferric chloride over all my clothes. At one point 2 fingernails fell off.

I had to quit doing that because I was allergic to the Kodak developer solution used to process the boards before etching.


Ooof, nasty. Mine was a RS experience as well. I was hmm, 10 I think? Very early 80's. It was fun. Made me want to be an EE. Managed to get out unscathed after a few years of it. I soon realized I was far too lazy for such tedious, close-tolerance creation and went full software. hihi

p.s. my post was meant as a joke, btw. Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!

p.p.s. You should do a kickstarter to make the E370 into a polysynth keyboard.
Waz
Are we posting CV's now?

Stand up from your armchair and be the change you want to see in the world. https://www.moogmusic.com/careers
paults
Quote:
It should be obvious by now that Moog are milking a particular market and demographic and that there is a large premium attached to the brand name.



And....thread over.
paults
Quote:
Are we posting CV's now?


I simply answered his statement.

Moog wouldn't hire me. I lack tats and piercings.
paults
Quote:
Stand up from your armchair and be the change you want to see in the world


MusicRadar's Euro Module of the Year



100% funded in KickStarter in 43 minutes, over 500 sold so far



OK, your turn.
dumbledog
The new Moog website is impressively terrible. Lots of scrolling right which is dumb, and lots of loading graphics which prohibit looking at anything else while you wait. Yech.
paults
Quote:
Dad must be proud.


Dad shot down 2 aircraft in the Battle of Okinawa. With a hand-cranked deck gun. While wounded, which lead to a Purple Heart.

I'll go with.......yes.
Sir Ruff
Yeah, so back on topic... a couple interesting tidbits I just heard: modulations are audio rate and there can basically be as many as memory allows.
EPTC
Panason wrote:
I'm so excited I can barely type this comment


Me neith-- (splooges)
tobb
paults wrote:
Quote:
Dad must be proud.


Dad shot down 2 aircraft in the Battle of Okinawa. With a hand-cranked deck gun. While wounded, which lead to a Purple Heart.

I'll go with.......yes.


Proud to kill people ... hihi
johny_gtr
dumbledog wrote:
The new Moog website is impressively terrible. Lots of scrolling right which is dumb, and lots of loading graphics which prohibit looking at anything else while you wait. Yech.

+1 UI/UX is terrible, blinking screen with spinner is specially for guys who has problems with flash/stroboscopic light. d'oh! d'oh!
GovernorSilver
Waz wrote:
https://www.moogmusic.com/careers


It'll be entertaining to see someone from here or - even better Gearslutz/Harmony Central - take a job there, then see how long that person lasts.

"Hi, I'm your Moog Sales Rep. Don't buy Moog, they suck"

Or even just do the George Costanza lol.
numan7
Futuresound wrote:
The amount I don't care about this thing is vast, but I will say this for it, it's very ugly.


i sort of agree - kind of too woody / furniture-y perhaps (i think i'd prefer dark / black wood, for example). i suppose you could always sand off the varnish and stain the wood to your liking or fabricate your own 'hand-crafted' wooden case and re-encase it (though doing those kinds of things might hurt its resale value).

or maybe Moog will eventually come out with a bunch of different color schemes for wood and LEDs at some point like they did towards the end of the Voyager series.


cheers
EPTC
numan7 wrote:
kind of too woody / furniture-y perhaps. i suppose you could always sand off the varnish and stain the wood to your liking


Ouch.
metasonix
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK


- moderator edit -

Deleted image with NSFW content
Sir Ruff
metasonix wrote:
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK


So edgy... but that BS belongs in the NSFW section, not here.
Panason
Someone was castrated by Moog.
Dave Peck
metasonix wrote:
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK




JohnLRice
Dave Peck wrote:
metasonix wrote:
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK




lol
Sinamsis
paults wrote:
Quote:
Stand up from your armchair and be the change you want to see in the world


MusicRadar's Euro Module of the Year



100% funded in KickStarter in 43 minutes, over 500 sold so far



OK, your turn.


I'll be honest, the arrogance demonstrated (and I'm not even talking about this specific quote) has been a major turn off to me, and definitely made me happy to dump the one Synth Tech module I had. I don't miss my E352 at all. I'm much happier with my Piston Honda mk III, and I'm even happier giving to a humble dude who is very knowledgeable and easy to talk to. Mr. Schreiber is incredibly accomplished, but these comments have definitely made me not want to support him. I mean it's not on the level of Synthrotek, but it's enough for me. The dick measuring is really not a good look. And while my opinion really shouldn't mean shit, I do spend a lot of money and would've handed over quite a bit if it weren't for that sort of behavior. Although, really, none of the modules particularly interest me if we're being honest.

Regarding the Moog name, of course it comes with a higher price tag. I think it's hard to argue that. That said, I'll say it again.... name another company that has released something comparable in the past decade. I'll pay the money. Because I can, and because it's a feature set I want. I don't care what logo it bears.

Oh and congrats on the MusicRadar award. I guess MusicRadar is now the barometer of what's good in eurorack, since they dedicate a small monthly segment to it and give out awards.
Panason
Not a single cent...
huffnPuff
This thread...

d'oh!
umma gumma
I guess the only thing worse than a Behringer thread, is a Moog thread

nanners

did they show any of those sorts of knobs in the Behringer thread?

at least you could say, the Moog comes with big knobs
brokensolderingiron
umma gumma wrote:
I guess the only thing worse than a Behringer thread, is a Moog thread
nanners
did they show any of those sorts of knobs in the Behringer thread?
at least you could say, the Moog comes with big knobs


No, the worst thread is combination of Behringer thread from GS and a MoogOne thread from Muff multiplied by Ty Unwin
from SS apparently saying that that people who whines about MO to expensive are idiots while in same breath
say old flagships was way expenciver, not understanding he just gave himself the idiot of the year award.
Thats the ultimate thread! hyper
Angroc
Illiac wrote:
Angroc wrote:
does anyone know how the three parts share voices?


you assign however many voices you wish for each of the 3 sections (ex: 1 for section 1, 2 for section 2, 5 for section 3), along with the keymapping. Each multitimbral section has it's own note stealing modes. You can also layer them, as well.


Am the only who finds this to be a dealbreaker? Shouldn't a 8k piece of gear have dynamic voice allocation?

Well it saves me 8k$ I guess. meh
thetwlo
wait,? my cock has a Moog of it's own?
phats
gotta say the black & white adds a touch of class
grillo
paults wrote:

b) F-22 weapons computer, $90,000ea (well it was 1 board out of 3 in it, this 1 board was $90,000)
c) I worked on the F-35 video flight recorder for the rear gun camera, that was about $11,000 but to be fair only had about 200 parts and 1 part was $8,000 so there's that


Lol imagine owning yourself so hard that in order to claim moral superiority over a synth company overcharging for their products you post your career credentials as a contractor for the military industrial complex.
werock
There is an article on th SOS website that goes into the development of the Moog One, which some may find interesting...

Birth of the Moog One
tioJim
huffnPuff wrote:
This thread...

d'oh!


I know, right? It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed to be part of this community sometimes. In fact I'm not even sure I want to be.

Moog release a synthesiser and all the kiddies shit the bed. It's pretty pathetic.

Whoever posted the pic of cock. Dude, grow up.
Jari Jokinen
From sonicstate.com:
"We understand the VCOs are newly designed with Tri/Saw/PW with a variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave and reset phase of the Sawtooth."
https://sonicstate.com/news/2018/10/01/new-moog-poly-a-reality-moog-on e/

"Variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave". Serge DUSG can do this, but not with full audio range and tracking.

Nord Modular also does it (digitally). Can be very interesting, even musical.
dubonaire
tioJim wrote:
huffnPuff wrote:
This thread...

d'oh!


I know, right? It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed to be part of this community sometimes. In fact I'm not even sure I want to be.

Moog release a synthesiser and all the kiddies shit the bed. It's pretty pathetic.

Whoever posted the pic of cock. Dude, grow up.


Unfortunately Metasonix has phallomania and litters Muffwiggler with dick pics on a regular basis.
Panason
There is just no need for people to flaunt their sexual preferences around like that.
Sir Ruff
Jari Jokinen wrote:
From sonicstate.com:
"We understand the VCOs are newly designed with Tri/Saw/PW with a variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave and reset phase of the Sawtooth."
https://sonicstate.com/news/2018/10/01/new-moog-poly-a-reality-moog-on e/

"Variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave". Serge DUSG can do this, but not with full audio range and tracking.

Nord Modular also does it (digitally). Can be very interesting, even musical.


Interesting.... I'm really curious as to how this sounds, i.e., will it be different to something like PWM/SWM? No indication yet of the waveshaping that was mentioned in the patent.
booger
tioJim wrote:
huffnPuff wrote:
This thread...

d'oh!


I know, right? It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed to be part of this community sometimes. In fact I'm not even sure I want to be.

Moog release a synthesiser and all the kiddies shit the bed. It's pretty pathetic.

Whoever posted the pic of cock. Dude, grow up.


I agree!

Stay on topic. Keep the dicks and attitudes in the Members Only section.
Rex Coil 7
huffnPuff wrote:
This thread... d'oh!
Totally!

tioJim wrote:
I know, right? It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed to be part of this community sometimes. In fact I'm not even sure I want to be. Moog release a synthesiser and all the kiddies shit the bed. It's pretty pathetic. Whoever posted the pic of cock. Dude, grow up.
100% I agree!

dubonaire wrote:
Unfortunately Metasonix has phallomania and litters Muffwiggler with dick pics on a regular basis.
Metasonix can be counted on to assist with digging ever deeper once we hit bottom. Attention starved.

Panason wrote:
There is just no need for people to flaunt their sexual preferences around like that.
lol lolspew

booger wrote:
Stay on topic. Keep the dicks and attitudes in the Members Only section.
How about just not at all? It's no wonder why some people outside of this membership accuse us of being filthy minded.

Group photo of how we are perceived as a membership sometimes (and well deserved during our lowest moments) ....



MOOG ONE:

While it's above my pay grade (by hills and valleys) as far as I can tell it looks to be an outstanding instrument. I'm hoping to see it on stage in bands actually being used to create live music that goes beyond bleep-blapp-bloop 8 note sequences and drones. Y'know, music by musicians involving chord changes and well written progressions.

And if it's able to produce Minimoog sounds with any kind of authenticity, you can kinda take $3,500 from it's base price and consider everything beyond Minimoog capability as what you're paying for. Add an external phrase looper of preference and the Moog One may be used to fill a number of Moog specific roles on stage.

But honestly it's priced far above my net worth (but that doesn't mean I am complaining).

thumbs up
Jari Jokinen
Sir Ruff wrote:
Jari Jokinen wrote:
From sonicstate.com:
"We understand the VCOs are newly designed with Tri/Saw/PW with a variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave and reset phase of the Sawtooth."
https://sonicstate.com/news/2018/10/01/new-moog-poly-a-reality-moog-on e/

"Variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave". Serge DUSG can do this, but not with full audio range and tracking.

Nord Modular also does it (digitally). Can be very interesting, even musical.


Interesting.... I'm really curious as to how this sounds, i.e., will it be different to something like PWM/SWM? No indication yet of the waveshaping that was mentioned in the patent.

Unlike pulse width modulation, it can go from mellow to bright. Not like a wavefolder but rather like a filter. You can try it on Nord Modular Demo. Of course, Moog One implementation can sound different or be less flexible.

EDIT: There is "LFO 3 AMT" knob for "WAVE ANGLE". Hopefully there are hidden options."
Sir Ruff
Jari Jokinen wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
Jari Jokinen wrote:
From sonicstate.com:
"We understand the VCOs are newly designed with Tri/Saw/PW with a variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave and reset phase of the Sawtooth."
https://sonicstate.com/news/2018/10/01/new-moog-poly-a-reality-moog-on e/

"Variable rise and fall of the Triangle wave". Serge DUSG can do this, but not with full audio range and tracking.

Nord Modular also does it (digitally). Can be very interesting, even musical.


Interesting.... I'm really curious as to how this sounds, i.e., will it be different to something like PWM/SWM? No indication yet of the waveshaping that was mentioned in the patent.

Unlike pulse width modulation, it can go from mellow to bright. Not like a wavefolder but rather like a filter. You can try it on Nord Modular Demo. Of course, Moog One implementation can sound different or be less flexible.

EDIT: There is "LFO 3 AMT" knob for "WAVE ANGLE". Hopefully there are hidden options."


Thanks, yeah, that was what I was imagining. The oscillator patent document also made mention of waveshaping abilities, but it doesn't look like that has been implemented on the One.
red
metasonix wrote:
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK



There is no reason that you repost such crap! Deepest possible intellectual level
tioJim
booger wrote:
Stay on topic. Keep the dicks and attitudes in the Members Only section.


Totally. It's pretty insensitive too when you think about it, showing a dick like that. There's some Wigglers on this forum who obviously aren't old enough to get erections yet. We don't want to hurt their feelings .....


.... hihi hihi hihi hihi hihi hihi hihi hihi
tioJim
red wrote:
metasonix wrote:
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK



There is no reason that you repost such crap! Deepest possible intellectual level


Oh, I didn't realise it was a repost. Well in that case I can't be certain of the OP's intentions so ... hmm ... well either way it was pretty pornographic and I for one didn't need to see it. My eyes! My eyes!
Sir Ruff
tioJim wrote:
red wrote:
metasonix wrote:
Someone sent me this, found on a forum (apparently) otherwise IDK



There is no reason that you repost such crap! Deepest possible intellectual level


Oh, I didn't realise it was a repost. Well in that case I can't be certain of the OP's intentions so ... hmm ... well either way it was pretty pornographic and I for one didn't need to see it. My eyes! My eyes!


Highly unlikely it was a repost--that was just part of the OP's juvenile idea of a joke, kind of like all his "hysterically offensive" gear labels. Anyway, definitely does not belong on this forum. Let's move on...
paults
Quote:
I'll be honest, the arrogance demonstrated (and I'm not even talking about this specific quote) has been a major turn off to me,


Welcome to Muffwigger, where someone can claim I am arrogant, by me answering a question with specific examples, by a poster telling me to "get out of my armchair and make something."

Coupled with people slamming my working on military hardware. OK, turn off GPS and NEVER EVER EVER use it again (100% military, and YES it is THE SAME THING as what I did) and while you're at it, turn off WiFi (spread spectrum used in torpedo guidance computers and later encrypted walkie-talkies).

Jesus.....and I'm the one who is "clueless" and " needs to grow up" and now Eric has to dick pic it.

If this thing had Korg on it......sigh........
paults
Quote:
The dick measuring is really not a good look. And while my opinion really shouldn't mean shit, I do spend a lot of money and would've handed over quite a bit if it weren't for that sort of behavior. Although, really, none of the modules particularly interest me if we're being honest.


You DO realize, this isn't me, it's Eric at Metasonix.

Please don't put us in the same boat.
numan7
Quote:
name another company that has released something comparable in the past decade.


well there's the Behringer DeepMind 12, which the Moog One reminds me of in more than one way.


cheers
lisa
paults wrote:
If this thing had Korg on it......sigh........

Or Behringer. Oh, the carnage we would have witnessed. confused

numan7 wrote:
Quote:
name another company that has released something comparable in the past decade.


well there's the Behringer DeepMind 12, which the Moog One reminds me of in more than one way.

Oh no, you didn’t! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
RickKleffel
Are we on Nazi calls yet? There's a signpost, up ahead, your next stop...

Sinamsis
paults
Again, my comment isn't directly related to your posts above, but I would say they reinforce my general impression. I've read several posts from you, here and on FB forums, that have not sat very well with me. Specifically I recall one where you basically thumbed your nose at the Piston Honda mk III for using your Waveedit software, as if Scott were riding your coat tails. These repeat posts about Moog. These things give me the impression that you feel the need to tear other people down to bring yourself up, in addition to sounding very cocky. That's just my opinion, and I've bit my tongue for quite a while. I guess in this specific scenario you feel you've been called out, and you're standing up for yourself. But maybe you don't have to lower yourself to that.

Listen, I have a lot of respect for your experience and knowledge, I wish I had a fraction of it. But in my experience, it's better to let your work speak for itself. When you're this vocal, it takes away from. It's good to be excited about what you do and proud of your work, I'm very much the same way. But I don't feel the need to tell anyone how good I am.

Regarding the military tech... I'm not going to touch it, because it verges on politics, but you raise some very valid points in your response, and I don't think anyone should be shamed for their military service. Ever.

Specifically regarding your Moog comments, and then your comments about what you've produced and their price tags. You're clearly accomplished. But most of the stuff you've listed doesn't really apply here IMO. Because you weren't playing with your own money. I don't know much about Synthesis Technology, but to be honest, I don't think that it's nearly ready to attempt anything near the magnitude of what Moog is here. Maybe I'm wrong, and if you do, I'd be pleasantly surprised. Making these comments based on the price of a few components, and then claiming there's a specific percentage markup is really invalid, and as a small business owner you know that (I'm a small business owner too). Moog has more expenses than just components, and has made certain business choices that may increase their cost of operation, but allows them to run the business as they see fit. Honestly, I don't know the particulars. But I'm pretty certain you don't either. I'm the first person to say that Moog charges a premium for the name. How much, I don't know. Not enough for me to pay retail for any of their products until now. But I will for this feature set. Of course this is without actually laying hands on the machine, but I'm willing to take the chance on it because Sweetwater will back me up.

Regarding Korg... what if Korg produced it? First of all, it would probably have mini keys, and I'm sure voice boards would be integrated circuits or whatever similar to what Alesis did with the Andromeda. I'm sure the price would be less. I suspect Korg could crank out something like this much more easily than Moog. Why haven't they then? Why hasn't anyone?

Oh and dick measuring is a saying... dick measuring contest, like a pissing contest, etc. Nothing to do with dick pics.
Sinamsis
numan7 wrote:
Quote:
name another company that has released something comparable in the past decade.


well there's the Behringer DeepMind 12, which the Moog One reminds me of in more than one way.


cheers


I have a Deepmind 12 and I think it's quite nice. But not really comparable IMO. Apples and oranges. VCO based? No (though their drift feature sounds actually very good). Also only 2 oscillators and much more limited control of each. FM/RM? No. 2 filters? No. Flexible audio routing? No. Multitimbral? No. I could keep going. But I think the point is made.

Anyways, generally speaking this whole thread has veered left and I suspect will get ugly. That said, on GS they're talking about their favorite features on a synth that has yet to be released (people really like the Eventide reverbs), they've made some mysoginistic comments, they've had an in depth discussion of eating raw ground beef, and someone claimed it will dethrone the Cirklon. Ha, so we may still be doing ok. But anyways, I'll post back when I've had my hands on it.
Angroc
Could we discuss the Moog One, guys? You remember, that Moog poly that just got announced?
paults
Quote:
But I don't feel the need to tell anyone how good I am.


I don't either. Rather, all I do is respond directly, with specific examples. The poster implied I had never either:

a) designed anything as "complicated" as the Moog One
b) designed anything that "expensive"

Another posts imply "you don't know what you're talking about", I try to show, yes, I kinda do. However, if by showing examples of my work is akin to "arrogant, showing off", it's back to years and years of first the AH mailing list and currently Muffs that it's perfectly OK for 'end users' to say basically anything they want, and if any manufacturer tries, in whatever form (direct, sarcastic, trolling) then it's just....well....BAD.

So, by your logic, even if I say, well ANYTHING it's "well, good people let their products speak for themselves" . Like in the LIBB Euro thread where I try to explain the difference between low resistance and low impedance and get dog-piled.

People say stuff like "your arguments are invalid about pricing" and "well, you've never designed a 16V 48 VCO poly synth....so....[eyeroll]" and guess what: no one at Moog had done one EITHER. So, do you REALLY think a Moog One is more "complex" than a freaking F-22 weapons computer? REALLY?

You use the phrase "of this magnitude" yet I doubt you or really a single reader of this thread has experience not only designing or manufacturing anything in a volume commercial/consumer environment. 16 copies of a 'voice' is 1 design copied....16 times. And even the One's 14,000 parts, say they make 1000 over a year. OK, that's a "complexity" of 14million parts.

My last cellphone shipped that many parts in the first 5 months so.....? Well, instead of 15 pc boards it was 2 and only 11mm thick and fits in your shirt pocket.

If you or others think my 'reason' for the post is to build me up while putting them down, try again.

Hopefully, Moog can manage not to have 10 firmware revs before Christmas, no DOAs. Seeing by their own admission this took almost 3 1/2 years to ship, I can relate to the parts BOM being equal to the "overhead" cost.

Really, at the end of the day, few people reading this are the 'target' for this. I would love to have had just the older 6 voice style (with the improvements) for $1999. They, or me, or anyone can charge whatever they want, and it doesn't "have to make sense" (why is a Lexus Camry $35,000 more than the Toyota Camry??!?)

I'm also disappointed in the fact that

a) uses a wall-wart with a custom adapter and a custom 4-pin XLR cable
b) you can't buy an 8 voice and upgrade it

I certainly don't feel I get, or DESERVE any sort of 'pass' on my designs (I've never worked for any company that did). I suppose I'm a rare bird in the sense I encourage people to pick my designs apart. I want every mistake pointed out. I want anything "wrong" about it fixed. This is very rare in ALL of business.

Anyway, I keep hoping, at some point, people "get" my posts. I think the fact that I even post AT ALL, is somehow 'wrong'. Maybe it is nanners Guinness ftw!
Sinamsis
paults
I can see where you're coming from. I guess you feel attacked. But if someone is dumb enough to think you don't know what you're talking about, what makes you think that they'll be intelligent enough to understand that you do, even with a description of your credentials? Again, I'm just explaining how I've perceived it, as it's come across as cocky to me. I did think about it before posting, and yeah, you're right. There's pretty much no response you could give that would make you look good short of just taking the high road and saying fuck it.

Back to the topic, when I say it's a big endeavor I'm not comparing to developing and refining any of the complex things that you have done. I mean it takes some big balls to release a "Cadillac" analog poly in 2018, particularly at this price point. A ton of R&D has gone into it I'm sure, not that Moog doesn't know how to make a basic subtractive synth (this was even mentioned in citing the work that went into the more recent synths provided refined the process to the point that this was even a feasible endeavor). No other company has been willing to take this risk since the Andromeda that I know of. And there has certainly been a demand, though maybe the demographic may be small. It could be a complete disaster, and if it weren't for Sweetwater's customer service, I probably wouldn't take the chance.

And I think your critiques in design are valid, and obviously you have a lot more experience than most of us. I don't really get the wall wart issue, personally I don't mind. But people seem to hate that. I guess it's considered phoning it in in terms of design maybe? The upgrade from an 8 voice..... I have to look into that again, because I know they said you would not be able to initially, but I think the SOS article might have hinted that down the road you might be able to. I need to double check that. But it gave me the impression that the voice board is expandable, but the expansion won't initially be offered. That said, at that price point, an addition $2000 or so seems worth it to double the polyphony. Particularly if you're financing it through Sweetwater, spread out over two years it's a much easier pill to swallow.
Panason
Quote:
I don't think anyone should be shamed for their military service.


Are we waving flags for mass murder yet?

All together now:





AMERICAAAAAAAAA !
flashheart
Angroc wrote:
Illiac wrote:
Angroc wrote:
does anyone know how the three parts share voices?


you assign however many voices you wish for each of the 3 sections (ex: 1 for section 1, 2 for section 2, 5 for section 3), along with the keymapping. Each multitimbral section has it's own note stealing modes. You can also layer them, as well.


Am the only who finds this to be a dealbreaker? Shouldn't a 8k piece of gear have dynamic voice allocation?

Well it saves me 8k$ I guess. meh

AFAIK dynamic voice allocation has never been done on an analogue synth. Not sure it's even possible to cleanly switch patches on an analogue synth while sounds are playing.
denuir
@paults

I appreciate your posts. They’re informative and offer a lot to consider when contemplating such a huge investment. I’m not in the position to move on one of these at present but it certainly has my eye. The possibility that certain components could be prone to fail helps curtail the imperious urge. This is especially true when details of the components are brought to my attention by someone who knows what they’re talking about.
paults
Quote:
Are we waving flags for mass murder yet?



Better NEVER EVER talk in praise or own Buchla stuff then. Don was a long-time military aircraft electronics designer.

Buchla synths were his hobby.
Skotchi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
paults
Quote:
There's pretty much no response you could give that would make you look good short of just taking the high road and saying fuck it.


a) no fun
b) trying to get (if at least 1 or 2 people) to realize
1 - there are people out here that REALLY know electronics design, that isn't based on Googling guitar pedal mods and
2 - are actually trying to help, even if you don't possibly see how I am in any way 'helping'
paults
Quote:
Are we waving flags for mass murder yet?


Better not EVER desire, praise, or own any Moog gear prior to the Rogue/PolyMoog era.

95% of the parts used in Moog products were military surplus parts.

That's why if you look at Moog 904 VCF schematics over the years, the parts change all over the place. This is because 1% resistors, 5% caps were a premium, and transistors were VERY expensive. Bob would buy ~18months worth at a time, but when those ran out, he had to find different ones to work with.

That's why the edge connectors in the modular + MiniMoog are so "non-standard", they're military parts.

Which was a GOOD thing, unless MILITARY.

BTW: turn off your GPS and WiFi yet?

Thought not.
paults
Quote:
I mean it takes some big balls to release a "Cadillac" analog poly


Deepmind 12 doesn't count?

Though not......sigh......

To me, the biggest 'takeway' is shipping ANYTHING (it can be a solar panel inverter, or an elevator controller, or WHATEVER), a piece of "equipment", with 14,000 parts scattered across 15 pc boards.

That's something else.
paults
Quote:
No other company has been willing to take this risk since the Andromeda that I know of


You mean the product that bankrupted one of the iconic and successful MI companies ever? The one that invented affordable effects units?

Maybe there is a 'business case' about that somewhere.
Sinamsis
From the SOS article:


Quote:
But for the moment at least, the plan is to launch two models – an extensible 8-voice version, and a fully populated 16-voice version.



This implies, if not outright states, that the voice boards can be expanded, though it's not first hand. Now if Moog will release those expansions, I have no clue.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but an incredibly important feature that I'd like to know more about.... it looks like the top panel can be tilted forward. I'm curious if it's similar to the Voyager, or the Wave, where the top can be tilted at various angles. That would really be great, and might make me reconsider where I place it.
MindMachine
Panason wrote:
Someone was castrated by Moog.


Metasonix was obviously castrated by someone a long time ago. Or
something along those lines.


phats wrote:
gotta say the black & white adds a touch of class


Very old school.
Sinamsis
paults wrote:
Quote:
No other company has been willing to take this risk since the Andromeda that I know of


You mean the product that bankrupted one of the iconic and successful MI companies ever? The one that invented affordable effects units?

Maybe there is a 'business case' about that somewhere.


I'm confused, are you arguing for my point or against it? It was a feature packed VCO based polysynth retailing for what, $2.5 or $3k? It required a ton of R&D, and Alesis to develop the boards from scratch. And it was a money loser. But one of the most feature packed analog poly synths of the past couple decades. Granted buggy AF, and actually probably shares some of the design flaws that you fault the One for (actually it has a fuck load more unsealed pots that do get really fucked up over time, vs 3 rotary encoders). Anyways, you're knocking another company for attempting something similar, at a time where the market is flooded with poly synths and asking for a high price to recoup the money they've invested in the development of said instrument.... so yeah, I'm confused now. Are they idiots without business sense? Or are they greedy business men grabbing at people's wallets?
paults
Quote:
I'm confused now. Are they idiots without business sense? Or are they greedy business men grabbing at people's wallets?


Perhaps such a complicated synth, requiring such large R&D (coupled with large parts count) is a large risk and the prior case (the A6) would lead some people to conclude a lesser risk/lower R&D cost/lower parts usage synth may be a better course of action.
paults
What happens with "tightly-coupled" (HW/SW), large-scale projects (like the A6), is that bugs will be reported, which causes people to "hold off" purchasing, then bugs get fixed during a revenue dip, and then time goes by and a HW problem is found (that is then tried to 'work-around' by a SW fix, but kinda, sorta...not).

The company then locks into internal finger-pointing as GearSlutz/reddit fill up with negative feedback, which makes MORE people hold off. Then, you reach a point where everyone is waiting but no money comes it. (a variant of the 'Osbourne Effect', look it up).

This is what happened to the A6. People in the industry call this the 'death spiral'. The company needs to hire more programmers (oh shit, the Lead Programmer quit because 6 days/week of 18hr days) and more line tech and OMG we don't have time/equipment to troubleshoot 15 boards to the part level so you start swapping out 8-voice stuffed cards you paid $900 for because a $0.03 transistor blew up.

All I'm saying is: Moog has to execute 10x better than Alesis did on the A6. Maybe that's exactly what they did [shrug]
Sinamsis
paults wrote:
Quote:
I'm confused now. Are they idiots without business sense? Or are they greedy business men grabbing at people's wallets?


Perhaps such a complicated synth, requiring such large R&D (coupled with large parts count) is a large risk and the prior case (the A6) would lead some people to conclude a lesser risk/lower R&D cost/lower parts usage synth may be a better course of action.


Yeah... so we're saying the same thing, but I guess drawing different conclusions.... I'm applauding them for taking on the challenge. There's a lot of us who want these features, and some of us are willing to put our money where our mouth is... I guess you're concluding that they're making a mistake. Time will tell. It very well could end up that this synth is abandoned before all the bugs are worked out. So maybe early adopters are making a mistake too. Or perhaps it will function well but cash flow won't support it, so there will be a limited run. Or maybe Moog will make millions off a bunch of nostalgic saps. I don't know, but Im going to find out.
Sinamsis
paults wrote:
What happens with "tightly-coupled" (HW/SW), large-scale projects (like the A6), is that bugs will be reported, which causes people to "hold off" purchasing, then bugs get fixed during a revenue dip, and then time goes by and a HW problem is found (that is then tried to 'work-around' by a SW fix, but kinda, sorta...not).

The company then locks into internal finger-pointing as GearSlutz/reddit fill up with negative feedback, which makes MORE people hold off. Then, you reach a point where everyone is waiting but no money comes it. (a variant of the 'Osbourne Effect', look it up).

This is what happened to the A6. People in the industry call this the 'death spiral'. The company needs to hire more programmers (oh shit, the Lead Programmer quit because 6 days/week of 18hr days) and more line tech and OMG we don't have time/equipment to troubleshoot 15 boards to the part level so you start swapping out 8-voice stuffed cards you paid $900 for because a $0.03 transistor blew up.

All I'm saying is: Moog has to execute 10x better than Alesis did on the A6. Maybe that's exactly what they did [shrug]



Dude, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but when a well-respected expert in the field (that would be you) starts shooting down their part selection and price point, aren't you starting the death spiral early?

Speaking of the death spiral, synths with this degree of flexibility in modulation options, and other features of course are an aggressive undertaking. The Modal 008 is a recent one that comes to mind. The release version was disastrous (I was unlucky enough to receive a unit that never had the firmware updated, even though I waited over a year to purchase one). The firmware has slowly been updated (how much I can't say because I sold mine), but I do know that there are still major gaps in features that were promised long ago. The One could clearly end up like this, I'm fully aware.
paults
Quote:
The One could clearly end up like this, I'm fully aware.


See, I do make sense at some point.

My true "concerns" have nothing to do with the price. They can charge $20,000 if they want to.

Personally, I wouldn't "applaud" 14,000 parts on 15 pc boards. But that's just me. If I had a pacemaker, I'd want 9 parts on 1 pc board SlayerBadger!
Sinamsis
paults wrote:
Quote:
The One could clearly end up like this, I'm fully aware.


See, I do make sense at some point.

My true "concerns" have nothing to do with the price. They can charge $20,000 if they want to.

Personally, I wouldn't "applaud" 14,000 parts on 15 pc boards. But that's just me. If I had a pacemaker, I'd want 9 parts on 1 pc board SlayerBadger!


Well yes, it’s terrifying to think that are 14,000 opportunities for failure. But I’m a glass half full sort of guy. Ha and medical devices are a very different game. I’ve been very peripherally involved in the development of one device and the guy I trained with developed a few others. Medical devices are tasked to do one thing, in the simplest and most idiot proof way possible. A synthesizer with all the features of the One requires a lot of parts apparently. And there’s a lot of room for failure, it is by definition not simple nor singular in its uses. Maybe they could have come up with a more elgant, concise design. I don’t know about these things. But I’m applauding them for trying. Which brings me to my next point.

A lot of people go on about their dream synth, and wishing for this and that feature. Well Moog listened. And weighed it all out. And then tried to create an instrument that checked as many boxes for as many people as possible. I’ve been one of those vocal motherfuckers. So I think it’s my obligation, if I’m able (and I’ve been blessed this past year with a very productive business and I’ve been fairly frugal until now), to support this endeavor. And I hope it’s a huge success. And I hope it inspires other companies to take on something like this. I know I’m taking a risk. Not as much of a risk as the company is. Ha and at least I have the Sweetwater guarantee to fall back on. But it’s worth it to me because while I really don’t give a shit about Moogs history (I really don’t give a fuck, I like the sound but I would never pay out for a vintage Model D nor have I ever shelled out retail for any of their products except for maybe the MIDI MuRF), I am impressed by the work that’s gone into this and the feature set. I believe it will sound good. All they have to do is furnish a machine that is relatively stable, and continue to support it until it’s been polished. I really think the first half is possible, and if users support this release the second half will be too. It’s a big ask. We’ll see what the market does.

Otherwise, you might be able to comment... with a machine of this complexity, wouldn’t it be possible to program some sort of self diagnostic routine that could help localize a bad component? I mean my fucking fridge can do this over WiFi (god bless the military). Even the A6 does this on a basic level. Couldn’t a modern sunthesizer of this complexity do something similar?
MindMachine
I came here to read about paults but all of this Moog crap has got in the way. (Fact - he sold more modules than Moog ever did).
paults
Quote:
And then tried to create an instrument that checked as many boxes for as many people as possible.


This is not necessarily a 'good thing' to do. I say NO and HELL NO all the time for feature requests for E352/E370. But this doesn't mean I ALWAYS say no. It means I balance the time/effort/risk of the request (to most customers, every request is "just more typing") to will the 90% of the current/future users think this is "worth it".

Quote:
Maybe they could have come up with a more elegant, concise design.


Uh.....like 60% fewer parts. An Ethernet (why not Wi-Fi)?

In summary, I was hoping for something better. Not a brute-force, kitchen-sink, wall-wart-powered synth.
dubonaire
Angroc
flashheart wrote:
Angroc wrote:
Illiac wrote:
Angroc wrote:
does anyone know how the three parts share voices?


you assign however many voices you wish for each of the 3 sections (ex: 1 for section 1, 2 for section 2, 5 for section 3), along with the keymapping. Each multitimbral section has it's own note stealing modes. You can also layer them, as well.


Am the only who finds this to be a dealbreaker? Shouldn't a 8k piece of gear have dynamic voice allocation?

Well it saves me 8k$ I guess. meh

AFAIK dynamic voice allocation has never been done on an analogue synth. Not sure it's even possible to cleanly switch patches on an analogue synth while sounds are playing.


But the synth is digitally controlled isn't it? A6 atleast does it excellently: you never have to specify how many voices per part. It will just dole out voices according to demand.
Sir Ruff
Angroc wrote:
But the synth is digitally controlled isn't it? A6 atleast does it excellently: you never have to specify how many voices per part. It will just dole out voices according to demand.


From what I have been told, dynamic allocation won't work here because each voice essentially "becomes" the synth voice it is assigned to. I'm not sure why/how this is different to whatever the Andy did, but it seems that it wouldn't be computationally possible to update dynamic voices fast enough to make this work.

EDIT: I think the other aspect is that this really isn't meant to be thought of as a multi-timbral synth; the three synth scences are meant to be more for layering rather than independent parts.
umma gumma
dubonaire wrote:


LOL!!

applause
Ranxerox
Angroc wrote:
flashheart wrote:
Angroc wrote:
Illiac wrote:
Angroc wrote:
does anyone know how the three parts share voices?


you assign however many voices you wish for each of the 3 sections (ex: 1 for section 1, 2 for section 2, 5 for section 3), along with the keymapping. Each multitimbral section has it's own note stealing modes. You can also layer them, as well.


Am the only who finds this to be a dealbreaker? Shouldn't a 8k piece of gear have dynamic voice allocation?

Well it saves me 8k$ I guess. meh

AFAIK dynamic voice allocation has never been done on an analogue synth. Not sure it's even possible to cleanly switch patches on an analogue synth while sounds are playing.


But the synth is digitally controlled isn't it? A6 atleast does it excellently: you never have to specify how many voices per part. It will just dole out voices according to demand.


The ability to specify voice allocations per part is definitely a feature, not a bug. I use it all the time on the Oberheim Xpander in multi-mode, it can enable some really expressive playing and interesting dynamics. Not to mention support for MIDI mono mode which makes MPE support possible.

$8K synth shouldn't use a wall-wart for power though.
nectarios
EPTC
The "Behringer will clone it" argument doesn't apply though; this is new technology with existing new trade/copy protections. Especially with the programmatic part, which might be more protected (though the iphone was quickly, in a year's time, available in cloned Android formats, so I might be wrong on that)

Behringer already has the Deep Mind thing, right? Isn't that their poly that the guy is getting bulleted up by Robo-Moog for "waiting for" above?

If I had the clear need (and a defined use that wasn't filled by other things) for a Poly Moog I'd gladly commit to the 16 voice and pay it off in $200 monthly installments. That's the same budget people use for eurorack modules. I really like the suggestion in this thread for a diagnostic check in the menu for each pot and circuit, too - That'd be a great protection or peace of mind for such a complicated project, if Moog's listening.
anselmi
EPTC wrote:
The "Behringer will clone it" argument doesn't apply though; this is new technology with existing new trade/copy protections. Especially with the programmatic part, which might be more protected (though the iphone was quickly, in a year's time, available in cloned Android formats, so I might be wrong on that)

Behringer already has the Deep Mind thing, right? Isn't that their poly that the guy is getting bulleted up by Robo-Moog for "waiting for" above?

If I had the clear need (and a defined use that wasn't filled by other things) for a Poly Moog I'd gladly commit to the 16 voice and pay it off in $200 monthly installments. That's the same budget people use for eurorack modules. I really like the suggestion in this thread for a diagnostic check in the menu for each pot and circuit, too - That'd be a great protection or peace of mind for such a complicated project, if Moog's listening.


I bet behringer will clone most iconic synths of past...we all saw their OB-X, and it will be easy for them to clone the Prophet-5 too...maybe make a Model D-based poly...why not?

I think they´re just waiting until they sell enough monosynths and then start with the poly stuff

just give them 2 years and it will be an invasion of behringer analog polys
Sinamsis
anselmi wrote:
EPTC wrote:
The "Behringer will clone it" argument doesn't apply though; this is new technology with existing new trade/copy protections. Especially with the programmatic part, which might be more protected (though the iphone was quickly, in a year's time, available in cloned Android formats, so I might be wrong on that)

Behringer already has the Deep Mind thing, right? Isn't that their poly that the guy is getting bulleted up by Robo-Moog for "waiting for" above?

If I had the clear need (and a defined use that wasn't filled by other things) for a Poly Moog I'd gladly commit to the 16 voice and pay it off in $200 monthly installments. That's the same budget people use for eurorack modules. I really like the suggestion in this thread for a diagnostic check in the menu for each pot and circuit, too - That'd be a great protection or peace of mind for such a complicated project, if Moog's listening.


I bet behringer will clone most iconic synths of past...we all saw their OB-X, and it will be easy for them to clone the Prophet-5 too...maybe make a Model D-based poly...why not?

I think they´re just waiting until they sell enough monosynths and then start with the poly stuff

just give them 2 years and it will be an invasion of behringer analog polys


We're veering off topic here. But they're already planning to release the VP-330 clone in the near future, which I will buy without batting an eye because it's been on my list for a very long time.

But it's a little weird that Behringer comes up any time a higher end synth comes out. Ha, these aren't open source things (sure whenever a Mutable module comes out you can almost guarantee well have a nano version in less than 6 months). Behringer is cloning vintage synths that are no longer protected by copyrights....

But yeah, back to the One. Clearly it's created some serious buzz, obviously good and bad. I do believe tomorrow we'll see the official release and we'll hopefully hear and see some demos.

Folks have mentioned not like the new web site, and how it seems geared towards sales. I think I have to agree with the sales thing. And the layout is a little weird and confusing. Ha but I'm veering off topic again.
dubonaire
Sinamsis wrote:
But it's a little weird that Behringer comes up any time a higher end synth comes out.

Folks have mentioned not like the new web site, and how it seems geared towards sales. I think I have to agree with the sales thing. And the layout is a little weird and confusing. Ha but I'm veering off topic again.


I just posted the meme purely as a joke in reference to the previous discussion and nothing more. The joke being everyone wanted an all singing all dancing polymoog and they bring one out and get criticised for doing it. I wasn't expecting to start a Behringer conversation although that was a little naive of me.

The Moog One promotion on the website is super clunky.
JohnLRice
Without thinking about it too hard hihi I think that the Moog One is priced pretty well? It might not seem so at first if one was to only compare other brands of synths merely based on voice count and price, but disregarding everything else, if any of us were 'Moog', how would we price it? We wouldn't want to gut sales of other products by under pricing it and of course we would want to actually sell enough of the new keyboards to hopefully be profitable so we wouldn't price it too high?

It's a bit of apples and bananas but:

The 2 voice Subsequent 37 is $1,500 and 4 of them (for 8 voices total, sort of) would be $6,000. An 8 voice Moog One for $6,000 seems reasonable? Sure, 4 Subsequent 37s would cumulatively be quad-timbrel as opposed to tri-timbrel like the Moog One but 4 Subsequent 37s wouldn't be as practical? Mr. Green

The mono voiced Mini Moog reissue is $3,500, even if it was financially possible to sell the 8 voice Moog One for a price close to that I doubt it would make much business sense? Just two Mini Moog reissues would be $7,000 so an 8 voice Moog One for $6,000 seems reasonable?

And of course the duophonic Moog System 15 with keyboard is over $11,000 so a 16 voice Moog One for $8,000 seems reasonable?

Seems to me they've priced the Moog One fairly and reasonably to fill both a capability gap and price point gap in their product line? spinning
Sinamsis
dubonaire
Ha yeah, it was a good meme. It wasn't directed at you, and I kinda assumed you were getting at that too. Any time a new synth comes out now, some people start talking about Behringer cloning it. Obviously your comment was tongue in cheek, but other people genuinely expect this it seems haha. And given the Boog, it seems like there's a particular expectation between these two brands.


JohnLRice
Preach. I really considered building a poly synth from Slim Phatty's years ago. I didn't particularly care for mine as a mono synth, but as a polysynth I thought I might like it. Scrapped the idea when I started crunching number, even with second hand units. Many times the sum is greater than the parts, I'm sure this is true for the One. But forget the sum, even the parts are greater than other options from Moog in some ways. If you compare the specs on a single voice of the One (3 oscillators, 4 LFOs, 3 envelopes, 2 filters with flexible audio routing, RM/FM, built in effects) it starts sound like a kickass mono synth even. Honestly I really liked the sound of my Sub37 (I did prefer the sound of the Voyager, but not enough to justify the discrepancy in terms of cost and size). If the Sub37 had all those other features I probably would've kept it.

And let me say it again... the build on my Voyager was spectacular. It was a beautiful instrument to play, program and even just look at. I think the One will probably check those boxes as well. I don't know a lot about Fatar keybeds other than the fact that everyone claims to use them, but clearly they cannot all be the same. The keybed on both Voyagers I have owned in the past felt wonderful. Moog didn't take short cuts on the build of that synth in my experience. Maybe I'm wrong.
JohnLRice
Sinamsis wrote:
I don't know a lot about Fatar keybeds other than the fact that everyone claims to use them, but clearly they cannot all be the same.
Check it out, they make almost 15 different main versions currently with variable options on each:
http://www.fatar.com/Pages/Intro_production.htm
Blairio
JohnLRice wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I don't know a lot about Fatar keybeds other than the fact that everyone claims to use them, but clearly they cannot all be the same.
Check it out, they make almost 15 different main versions currently with variable options on each:
http://www.fatar.com/Pages/Intro_production.htm


Fatar keyboard actions are ubiquitous, but that's because they are good. My Nord Electro's have them, and my (hopefully) soon to be delivered Moog Grandmother employs one. I have played several great sounding synths over the years with very poor keyboard actions. It is almost as if the keyboard action was treated a design after-thought - basically just an input device like a mouse or track pad.

Imagine a sports car with a great engine but poor roadholding and steering. Nobody would put up with that, yet there have been synth equivalents.

Things have improved immensely, with even some mini keyboard actions (honourable mention for MicoKorg) being reasonably playable.
numan7
Sinamsis wrote:
Flexible audio routing?




seems pretty darn flexible to me.

also, while not having lin fm or ringmod, it does do wavefolding (aka 'tone-mod') on the 2nd oscillator, as well as audio-rate exp fm.

anyways, i'm still interested to see how the One compares.


cheers
metasonix
dubonaire wrote:
tioJim wrote:
huffnPuff wrote:
This thread...
d'oh!

I know, right? It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed to be part of this community sometimes. In fact I'm not even sure I want to be.
Moog release a synthesiser and all the kiddies shit the bed. It's pretty pathetic.
Whoever posted the pic of cock. Dude, grow up.

Unfortunately Metasonix has phallomania and litters Muffwiggler with dick pics on a regular basis.

numan7
sad banana hmm, i wonder if eric thinks that i'm a dick... (sigh). anyways, i'll shut up for now in this thread (at least until someone here has a Moog One that i can ask questions about).


cheers
thesnow
What will the moog one be able to do that for example a prophet 12 or rev 2 can’t? Not talking about analog vs digital oscillators but more about feature sets
dubonaire
thesnow wrote:
What will the moog one be able to do that for example a prophet 12 or rev 2 can’t? Not talking about analog vs digital oscillators but more about feature sets


Rev2 doesn't have digital oscillators it has analog DCOs.

The Moog has one more oscillator per voice and is tri-timbral. It will have Moog filters (2 per voice like the PX but not the P12 or rev2).

Some things will sound the same and some will sound different. The polymoog had a pretty massive sound.
Sinamsis
numan7 wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Flexible audio routing?




seems pretty darn flexible to me.

also, while not having lin fm or ringmod, it does do wavefolding (aka 'tone-mod') on the 2nd oscillator, as well as audio-rate exp fm.

anyways, i'm still interested to see how the One compares.


cheers


That’s a pretty weak comparison. The One allows specific routing of each oscillator to each or both filters. Filters can be routed in series or in parallel. That’s a lot different than being able to route a few FX. And the wavefolding is relatively limited. Again, I own a Deepmind 12 desktop module. And if it’s good enough for you that’s awesome. But in general, I find comparing two very different synthesizers a pretty limited mental exercise. And if people can’t see the glaring differences between a Deepmind 12 and a Moog One, ha Moog is fucked.
red
https://www.moogmusic.com/news/moog-one-polyphonic-analog-synthesizer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhzVFZlKsM
JohnLRice
red wrote:
https://www.moogmusic.com/news/moog-one-polyphonic-analog-synthesizer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhzVFZlKsM
Thanks for the links! thumbs up Here's the Soundcloud playlist:

[s]https://api.soundcloud.com/playlists/618365775[/s]
JohnLRice
hmmm..... Sorry, dupe post!
nectarios
Sounds great, the effects are the best thing about it from what I've heard.
Its my personal opinion that this does not sound any better than a P6 or an OB-6, let alone cost more than both of them combined (which offer two distinct and classic tones).

No where near the Memorymoog though, not even in the same universe. This has the modern Moog sound all over it, which of course might be a good thing for some people.
Sir Ruff
nectarios wrote:
Sounds great, the effects are the best thing about it from what I've heard.
Its my personal opinion that this does not sound any better than a P6 or an OB-6, let alone cost more than both of them combined (which offer two distinct and classic tones).

No where near the Memorymoog though, not even in the same universe. This has the modern Moog sound all over it, which of course might be a good thing for some people.


here we go... meh
nectarios
Sir Ruff wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Sounds great, the effects are the best thing about it from what I've heard.
Its my personal opinion that this does not sound any better than a P6 or an OB-6, let alone cost more than both of them combined (which offer two distinct and classic tones).

No where near the Memorymoog though, not even in the same universe. This has the modern Moog sound all over it, which of course might be a good thing for some people.


here we go... meh

Oh sorry about that,
Its the best synth ever and ever lol
rowsbywoof
Holy shit is Moog’s new website atrocious. Lucky for them I’m interested in fighting what must be the worst advised layout for a website ever to hear their new synth. I can’t believe how bad this experience is.
Skotchi
Agreed, utterly horrendous.
Sir Ruff
nectarios wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Sounds great, the effects are the best thing about it from what I've heard.
Its my personal opinion that this does not sound any better than a P6 or an OB-6, let alone cost more than both of them combined (which offer two distinct and classic tones).

No where near the Memorymoog though, not even in the same universe. This has the modern Moog sound all over it, which of course might be a good thing for some people.


here we go... meh

Oh sorry about that,
Its the best synth ever and ever lol


No, not looking for unadulterated fawning, but a handful of online demos (from the company making it—never that great) does not a good impression make. For example, none of the demos even showcase the dual filters as far as I can tell.

So a blanket claim of “no better than P6/OB6” ain’t got a lot of merit at this point.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
Sir Ruff wrote:

So a blanket claim of “no better than P6/OB6” ain’t got a lot of merit at this point.

nope. but the moog one demos all sound naff. no different than what you can pull out of a cheaper VA synth.
EPTC
Yep sounds like a Moog. I'm sure the immediacy of multi-tracks without having to overdub is great, though.

Some of those demo tracks are super. I heard a lot of Robert Wyatt in "Sergio" and a whole heck of a lot of Clockwork Orange in "Classical Circuits".
a100user
ludotex
That video was a bit cringy. I hate moog's marketing. Lots of BS.
Even though it must be a great synth, I was not blown away by any of the demos. Pretty vanilla. It sounds good but not 8K good to me.

What do you guys find special in all of these demos?
cscairney
Sounds great, worth the $.

The effects are nice. In the promo film i love the sound of the choppy funk riff near the beginning. w00t

The time I've had with the memorymoog was brief but my favorite sweet spots on that instrument were in the subtle application of fm/closed cutoff/ slight res/ key follow, etc. just exploring one patch like that with all 3 oscs mixed in yielded infinite variations that I've never heard out of another synth.

I only compare the memorymoog with the one here because I can hear that Moog sound in these demos. It sounds like the One is capable of this kind of subtle alive and very musical character. I'm not into half of the demo patches, but seems like there is a ton more potential for the One to show what it is capable of.

Looking forward to owning one of these in the next couple of years.
a100user
Tedious but strangely fascinating this one, a bit like slow TV

nectarios
Sir Ruff wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Sounds great, the effects are the best thing about it from what I've heard.
Its my personal opinion that this does not sound any better than a P6 or an OB-6, let alone cost more than both of them combined (which offer two distinct and classic tones).

No where near the Memorymoog though, not even in the same universe. This has the modern Moog sound all over it, which of course might be a good thing for some people.


here we go... meh

Oh sorry about that,
Its the best synth ever and ever lol


No, not looking for unadulterated fawning, but a handful of online demos (from the company making it—never that great) does not a good impression make. For example, none of the demos even showcase the dual filters as far as I can tell.

So a blanket claim of “no better than P6/OB6” ain’t got a lot of merit at this point.

Well between the video and 40 soundcloud clips I heard, this is my first impression. The actual tone of the synth is great, is it greater than the rest of the high end synths that are less than half the cash? Absolutely not...but then again I am one of those people who does not consider the modern Moog sound to be anything "better", just different.

I heard somewhere that the wood used is expensive so maybe that justifies the price? Who knows.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
ludotex wrote:
What do you guys find special in all of these demos?

only moog fanbois will find these special.
EPTC
ludotex wrote:
That video was a bit cringy.


I liked the mimes. The only part that really had me cringing was all the plants around and on the synths inside that studio, especially if that's a real working space. That's a lot of water hazard.
Sir Ruff
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:

So a blanket claim of “no better than P6/OB6” ain’t got a lot of merit at this point.

nope. but the moog one demos all sound naff. no different than what you can pull out of a cheaper VA synth.


This is universal. Synth companies NEVER make good demos of their own products because they are traditionally not an arbiter of what customers actually want to here. Ditto for presets (the Xpander/Matrix-12, despite all their power, literally had the WORST presets EVER--like cowbells and crap piano level terrible).

DSI at least has the sense to hire out other folks to do additional demos for them.

Anyway, the knee jerk reactions are predictable. Those who can't afford one or don't want one hear a boring demo and get to feel satisfied with what they currently own or can afford; those who want one hear something else.
nectarios
And this is going to be the internet for the next few weeks.

- Moog One sounds great but nothing special
- Its the best synth ever you don't find it special cause you can't afford it.
- But it does not actually sound nearly as good as the price tag suggests.
- You are not a pro that's why you don't hear the quality of the sound...

...ad infinitum.
GovernorSilver
rowsbywoof wrote:
Holy shit is Moog’s new website atrocious. Lucky for them I’m interested in fighting what must be the worst advised layout for a website ever to hear their new synth. I can’t believe how bad this experience is.


I have to agree. Moog has made it more difficult than ever to get info about their products - its impossible to find the specs on each product.

No more Mother 32 or any member of the Sub family, unless they screwed up the layout.
paults
I'll save everyone the time (and 7 ads if you go start to finish) for the SoundCloud ones

I liked the 4 that sounded like my MM+ did (run through outboard stuff. I had the tc electronics set)

about 10 sounded like an OB-8 run through a PCM-90

rest were kinda meh.

After 48 hours of these tricking through the pipes:

94% will OMG AWESOME YEAH!
6% can sound pretty good at times
EPTC
HULK SAY: NEW SITE WHY

Side scrolling is really tedious to work through. I remember that trending as a web idea in 2003, ha. (I guess, as my dad said of other ideas, every generation wants to think they invented the idea of it!) I really liked the previous website, too, felt much less like a brochure.

GovernorSilver wrote:
No more Mother 32 or any member of the Sub family, unless they screwed up the layout.

Not sure if it's in the navigation menu, but google still finds it:
https://www.moogmusic.com/products/mother-32
GovernorSilver
EPTC wrote:
HULK SAY: NEW SITE WHY

Side scrolling is really tedious to work through. I remember that trending as a web idea in 2003, ha. (I guess, as my dad said of other ideas, every generation wants to think they invented the idea of it!) I really liked the previous website, too, felt much less like a brochure. Where's the quick links to manuals or tech spec, for instance.

GovernorSilver wrote:
No more Mother 32 or any member of the Sub family, unless they screwed up the layout.

Not sure if it's in the navigation menu, but google still finds it:
https://www.moogmusic.com/products/mother-32


Ah, so they changed it to side scrolling. Won't scroll to the side with my mouse. d'oh!

Does "scroll" with the side arrow keys on my keyboard. I agree with you, the switch to side-scrolling was a bad idea.

Also the removal of links to the specs and manuals.
Panason
LOL at moog video... CLOWNS.

"Old film" look just because.

And potted plants next to studio gear look great until it's time to water them....
milkshake
Sound quality, judging from the YouTube video: Very disappointing.
EPTC
Panason wrote:
And potted plants next to studio gear look great until it's time to water them....


Yeah that gives me the hives! Add bugs and dirt to that. I love plants, but that has to reduce the life on all the electronics, just from transient dirt and humidity.

I know the discussion about the Moog should be about the product itself, and I think it sounds really solid and look forward to seeing what new technology allows for modulation and routing (right now it sounds like a convincing multi-channel Model D, which is not at all bad)

But since they updated their site on the same day too, it becomes part of the conversation. Side scrolling and 'click to expand' buttons add an interaction that puts a lot of effort on people. In UX, this is referred to as experience currency, or the price you're charging (or interest you're losing) for someone to go through the site. If you want a brochure, add a downloadable PDF (Moog's print products look terrific, for example)
Diabolik!
lol at the guy ashing his cigar over Moog's 8k piece of furniture.
Panason
You can see all the text on the website without the buttons getting in the way by zooming out one notch (decrease font size)...

Quote:

Two 12dB per octave filters operating as one filter, configurable in NOTCH, BP, LP, and HP – with 12dB or 24dB slopes; Cutoff, Resonance, etc.


The svf and new oscillators are the most interesting features in terms of synthesis. Other Moog synths are just too simple to be interesting (to me) these days.

Quote:
Easily create modulation assignments from any of Moog One’s 4 LFOs and 3 EGs by pressing their corresponding Destination Button -- the next knob touched sets the modulation path and amount. For more complex modulation options, Moog One also employs an internal Modulation Matrix with visual access to every possible combination of the instrument’s extensive synthesis and controller components.
----------------------------
Provides the ability to map modulation sources to destinations at will, using either controllers or addressable transforms to articulate the modulation signal


That stuff sounds pretty dope . Not sure how it compares to DSI synths . Having buttons to create routings is the way to go but can you assign multiple destinations?

I see no word on what the LAN port is for! The suspense!
GovernorSilver
Yeah, I don't care about what they put in the videos - it could be just a freaking cat pounding paws on the keyboard for all I care, but the website is the biggest screwup for them, marketing wise.
damase
i really enjoyed the youtube demo, the overall vibe of the synth is just super pleasing and engulfing.

but wow that price
i hope a desktop module is released with a significantly lower price tag
a100user
I would love to have seen polyphonic after touch on this flagship synth
nectarios


Ok, so there is clearly a lot of tech into this + the expensive wood and I/O and doing the Moog math I am not surprised it costs what it does.

I still believe that the actual sound, does not reflect the price, especially the raw sound that is displayed here. They where wise to add the Eventide effects.

I think the interface is the best thing about it, along with the effects.
grillo
I enjoyed the YouTube presentation, some good variety of sounds, some great playing, some trippy stuff. Could have used a bit less of that super shaky, super crud 8mm film though.
dubonaire
Looks like an incredibly fun synth to use and I would love to have one in my studio.
lisa
Tons of menu diving. That seems fun.
denuir
The drum demo along with the rest of the Amos demonstration has sold me. It'll be a while before I have the $$ saved, but it's something to work toward.
dubonaire
lisa wrote:
Tons of menu diving. That seems fun.


I don't see much diving at all, especially for a synth with lots of modulation options. I see 200 knobs and switches on the panel.
GovernorSilver
dubonaire wrote:
lisa wrote:
Tons of menu diving. That seems fun.


I don't see much diving at all, especially for a synth with lots of modulation options. I see 200 knobs and switches on the panel.


My impression after viewing the livestream video is that - aside from preset navigation - one only has to deal with the LCD panel for "deep" editing/"More button" stuff. For quick tweaks to the filter, LFO, etc - just reach for the appropriate knobs.

Not like the Yamaha MODX where you have to tweak 6 filter settings for each of up to 8 Elements in a patch just to change a filter sound.
nectarios
The more I look at this the more it appears that the people who designed the panel and interface, had a good look at the Andromeda. The push mod source button/touch destination knob arrangement, take this to the next level though.
Dave Peck
I'm a huge fan of subtractive synths with multiple filters per voice and variable serial/parallel filter routing. I'm waiting to hear more sound examples that really show off what this synth sounds like with patches that make use of this ability. For me, that's a major deciding factor.

I already have a few synths that have this ability (some analog, some high-end VA) and I'd like to know how the Moog One compares to those in this area.

...And I'm kinda surprised that so many people here, in a forum about mainly modular synths, don't seem to be too interested in that aspect of the synth. For example people comparing this synth to other synths that just have a basic oscs > single filter > VCA voice architecture. You really don't think there is a huge difference between these two types of voice architectures?
Carrousel
Does anyone have any info on how the four outputs can be assigned in terms of multi-timbrality? I note its a 'tri-timbral' synth. Does that mean you could have mono bass lines and lead lines on separate outputs, then a 6-voice stereo pad on the other? All on separate midi channels? But no more than this? Apologies if this has already been covered, just want a quick answer to this one specific question before I commit to wasting any more time drooling over it hihi
Sinamsis
nectarios
I think comparing these to the Prophet 6 and OB 6 isn't really fair. Having owned a Prophet 6 I thought it sounded pretty good (though I might prefer the sound of the Moog) but it got really boring really fast only have one LFO and two envelopes. Really boring. Great for classic string and brass sound, basic basses, pads and leads.... but otherwise it bored me a lot. And the effects section I found to be very mediocre. And six voices limiting as well.

Regarding comparisons to the design of the Andromeda, I could see that. But it also follows the layout of all other Moog synths, so maybe it was the other way around. Otherwise spec wise it's similar in A LOT of ways, as has been mentioned. But they went around and asked a bunch of people what they wanted to see in a Moog polysynth, it's no surprise that these are the features that were requested.

Honestly I think they've taken a few hints from DSI's Prophet 12. To me this synth was decent in terms of sound, but in terms of UI, programability and modulation options it was excellent. It really blew me away. The central larger screen with 4 contextual knobs and 4 buttons on the opposite side is fantastic for programming IMO.

lisa
I don't really follow that comment at all really. I think it's pretty much knob per function for the basic functions of the synth, and menus for the deeper functions of the synth. This is where that large central screen with associated knobs and buttons really comes into play. I suspect it will be fairly intuitive.


I've watched that first teaser video that everyone was appalled by and the first live stream. I have a couple thoughts. I could see why many had a negative reaction to gimmickiness of the teaser video. Moog always does that shit. They're capitalizing on their name and history. Looking past that, I thought a lot of the patches were pretty basic and didn't really show us much. Holy fuck some of those guys have some chops though. I really dug the sound Mike Dean was getting at 6:44. In general I like his style in the Moog videos. Otherwise Ryuichi Sakamoto got some great sounds, and to me they were not "Moogy" at all.

The first Moog live stream was interesting. First of all, kudos for doing a live stream. That shows some real confidence in the stability of the OS. If it had been my 008 when I first received it, it would have frozen or totally crashed at least 2 or 3 times before the end of the 30 minutes segment. Secondly, I thought Jordan Rudess was doing the demo at first (I was using my phone for the video), haha, I didn't realize Amos had shaved his head (sorry off topic). I think this first video is a good start at actually demoing the synth. I don't really draw any conclusions listening to people's patches. But listening to the basic elements as the user slowly manipulates them, this is the most informative for me. A few thoughts:

- I noticed a decent amount of clipping. Not sure what level this is out, but I suspect it's internal. I suspect like other synths I've owned, internal gain staging will be particularly important, and greatly impact over all tone (A6 is the biggest culprit I've had experience with, but the 008 could generate incredible amounts of gain internal and really get pleasingly gritty). Anyways, maybe I'm wrong but that's my first impression.
- I noticed there's no stepping when slowly moving the filter cut off, nice! The DSI synths do this, which is a little frustrating. Dave says this is so that the filter tracks pitch well (and it does do this very well); it's a trade off I guess. That begs the question, how well will these filters track 1v/oct? I suspect pretty well, but there are some pricey synths that do not (the SE Code/Omega I have heard does not do this well for example).
- The FM didn't sound great to me. I like the sound of analog FM. This would be a little disappointing, but not a deal breaker. And I'm not drawing any real conclusions off an isolated demo. It sounded better using the LFO to modulate pitch of an oscillator, but those are digital. Again, not a deal breaker, but different. In my experience, I got some of the best FM sounds from the 008 when I had it using the LFO at audio rate and self oscillating filter. The oscillators themselves were actually pretty shitty for FM as it seemed that the FM index was not identical across all voices. Another thing to note is no sine wave on the One's VCO section, but again, not a deal breaker for me.
- The wave shaping sounds nice. Seems like you could get a lot of varieties there.
- Dedicated envelope for noise (!), which can freely be assigned elsewhere.
- Looks like the panel doesn't move at all, bummer. I should've realized though, since the jacks are on the base. It's a bit of an awkward shape it seems, but I do like that the panel is at least angle somewhat. It would be nice to have it angled slightly more I suspect, but then it would likely be very tall and placing it on a stand, or as a master controller might be difficult. Even with the current angle I don't think I could have it was my controller board because it would block access to other things. And its huge haha. Anyways, kudos for at least giving it some tilt. It makes programming for any period of time much easier on the neck and back.
- That SVF sounds nice. OTA based. He said it's an "original design." But really when it comes to filters and subtractive synthesis, what is really original anymore? Maybe it's not intentionally based on anything, but obviously it could be compared to previous filters. What other OTA based SVFs are out there?
- Back to the noise source.... it seems really flexible.
- General tone I'm actually pleased with from what I heard, albeit it limited. I hear some similarities to sounds I would get from my A6. I think as parallels are drawn we should probably remember that the A6 itself was strongly influenced by the Moog modular, and the oscillators and one of the filters were designed to emulate this sound.

I think that's all I've got for now.

Dave Peck you're right on about this. I suspect the sticker shock has something to do with it. But there are times where I would rather than sit down and program my P12 over the modular because it was so immediate, and came close to the flexibility of creating patches in the modular domain. Ha, and yeah, there's just been a general disregard of complexity of the architecture, but I think if you don't have experience with something like that you might consider these things comparable.
percussion boy
nectarios wrote:
And this is going to be the internet for the next few weeks.

- Moog One sounds great but nothing special
- Its the best synth ever you don't find it special cause you can't afford it.
- But it does not actually sound nearly as good as the price tag suggests.
- You are not a pro that's why you don't hear the quality of the sound...

...ad infinitum.


The other dead horse to beat will be Memorymoog comparisons ... which of course Moog invited by making the One lookk like a Memorymoog.

And whatever the One turns out to be sonically, it doesn’t sound like a Memorymoog. Which is too bad imo. Apparently Behringer will have to be the one to do a poly with Curtis oscs + ladder filters, if anyone does.
dubonaire
I also think youtube does not do polys justice. It's fine for a growling mono bass but there is a lot of depth in good poly patches that youtube just smears away. You just can't judge these synths based on youtube, or even soundcloud.
jmcecil
Raven_Martin wrote:
Does anyone have any info on how the four outputs can be assigned in terms of multi-timbrality?

The question was only partially answered. It seems the two sub outs are similar to many mixing desks that have sub channel outs. They are straight off the "channel" avoiding the main mix .. for example no global FX. But it wasn't clear at what point in the synth architecture you set the split to sub, and how that allocation would work .. for example removing from the main outs.

Potentially, you would send your bass out one of the subs. And you can definitely fully hard pan any synth left/right so it just comes out one main output.

Sorry for the half answer.
EPTC
Wow just watched Amos' demo. I love the thing - But it's almost too nuts and rich in terms of sound and modulation for me. But I'm a one or two oscillator switched on a Model D kinda person. (Delicate is nice, ya know!) But best to them on this. Sounds nice, balls stompy, and monstrous. CHOMP!
anselmi
I have mixed feelings about this One

For me the key point of this synth should be the polyphony, and as a poly synth maybe it´s overkill

I mean, by listening to the demos it sounds great, but cheaper poly synths synths can sound as good as it with the aid of external fx

And all the sound design tools are more suitable for sequenced, mono stuff..that´s me..,

So for the price of it I think I could get like 2 or 3 high end synths that covers the same territory and with more diversity

In the other hand this synth sounds great, looks amazing and have a near perfect workflow with some operation details that no other synth manufacturer was able to implement yet

And I think the price is fair for this feature set and sound, but this is if you want all of this in a single monster synth...I think I preffer to split functionality between 2 or more units

What do you think?
nectarios
Sinamsis wrote:
nectarios
I think comparing these to the Prophet 6 and OB 6 isn't really fair. Having owned a Prophet 6 I thought it sounded pretty good (though I might prefer the sound of the Moog) but it got really boring really fast only have one LFO and two envelopes. Really boring. Great for classic string and brass sound, basic basses, pads and leads.... but otherwise it bored me a lot. And the effects section I found to be very mediocre. And six voices limiting as well.

Regarding comparisons to the design of the Andromeda, I could see that. But it also follows the layout of all other Moog synths, so maybe it was the other way around. Otherwise spec wise it's similar in A LOT of ways, as has been mentioned. But they went around and asked a bunch of people what they wanted to see in a Moog polysynth, it's no surprise that these are the features that were requested.

Honestly I think they've taken a few hints from DSI's Prophet 12. To me this synth was decent in terms of sound, but in terms of UI, programability and modulation options it was excellent. It really blew me away. The central larger screen with 4 contextual knobs and 4 buttons on the opposite side is fantastic for programming IMO.

Fair enough, I don't own an OB-6, but event hough I have 3 LFOs + S&H on the A6, I have maybe only used more than two, like twice. Polys are kinda a waste for me for that when I have modular and it gets messy very fast, i.e. as soon as the 2-3key comes in...so yeah I do more involved stuff with the modular and I am happy that way.

I heard the fizzy harsh top end as well...and yes it sounds exactly like the A6 when you mix oscs and subs too hot (which is like 30% or 20 even, depending on the patch!). What reminded me the A6 besides the layout (granted Memorymoog was there first), was the screen and "soft" knobs below and just the whole touch/display thing.

Anyhow, there is a lot of technology in this. For me the interface and effects are the best thing about it. I heard the raw sound at Amos' presentation and it was nothing better than whatever is no the market at less than half the cash. I also barely ever record the A6 with the effects, mainly because I want to decide later in the mix about what and how much....so yeah its an insanely expensive synth that does not actually sound nearly as good as the price tag suggests, to my ears anyway.
oranginafiend
After watching the livestream I'm torn. It sounds fantastic and the feature set is unrivaled and unprecedented. So many modulation options. TWO DIFFERENT FILTERS?? 4 LFOS??? Crazy stuff. However, I hate the screen. Too complicated, too many buttons and options and menus. I know I wouldn't use it for anything aside from naming presets and I would hate thinking that I'm not getting the full potential of the synth by avoiding it.
nectarios
percussion boy wrote:
nectarios wrote:
And this is going to be the internet for the next few weeks.

- Moog One sounds great but nothing special
- Its the best synth ever you don't find it special cause you can't afford it.
- But it does not actually sound nearly as good as the price tag suggests.
- You are not a pro that's why you don't hear the quality of the sound...

...ad infinitum.


The other dead horse to beat will be Memorymoog comparisons ... which of course Moog invited by making the One lookk like a Memorymoog.

And whatever the One turns out to be sonically, it doesn’t sound like a Memorymoog. Which is too bad imo. Apparently Behringer will have to be the one to do a poly with Curtis oscs + ladder filters, if anyone does.


I was hoping it would sound like Synthmania's Moog Memorymoog "Beauty" that also uses Eventide effects (and also suffers from the same mp3 compression), but what I have heard from One (so far, still early days, yet plenty of audio available to audition now), is no where near...yes.. too bad imo too.

If anything, playing Synthmania's clip and then going through the One demos, makes me wonder...why can't someone just get *that* sound nowdays? There I was thinking, ok 6 - 8 grand, hello CEM3340 chips....nope.

I would not be surprised if Behringer that makes CEM3340 chips, comes out with some 16 voice poly with CEM VCOs and a killer ladder and oberheim(ish) state variable VCF...you know kinda clone the A6 and make a "chep" poly that will slay the One and A6 together, in terms of raw sound.

Anyhow, I do think there is a cost involved with the unit and Amos is a friend, so in all honesty this whole thing, is no surprise, Moog is Moog and their followers will rejoice....good smile
Angroc
nectarios wrote:
The more I look at this the more it appears that the people who designed the panel and interface, had a good look at the Andromeda. The push mod source button/touch destination knob arrangement, take this to the next level though.


My immediate thoughts too. Seems more and more like a direct upgrade. There's just so many similarities! Bunch of menus on the screen even, a price you have to pay for a synth this deep. Only downside compared to an A6 I can see/hear so far is the number timbres. I just hope peoples fear of the unsealed pots is ungrounded, and that it won't turn into an Andy in its later years. confused

Like others in this thread, what excites me here is the flexible audiorouting, which is one thing that the Andy lacks.

Also, I asked on the Amos AMA at reddit about the voicesharing between parts, and he had this to say:

Quote:
1) As of now, it's best to reserve voices per timbre, although there are many flexible options for how to do that. (for example you can reserve a few voices for certain layers and assign all available voices to the remaining layers)
ama here

So it sounds like we'll get the best of both worlds here? I'm feeling gassy again. razz
nectarios
Angroc wrote:
Only downside compared to an A6 I can see/hear so far is the number timbres.


I am waiting to see if there is a sine waveform on the oscs, if the different state variable outs can be mixed or are hard switched only and if there is a possibility to add and mix waveforms, post filter so for example add a sine wave, post filter and have a solid bottom end, regardless of filter resonance/cut off settings.

...and I just got my answer elsewhere.

Apparently the original design for signal routing included a mixer-bypass for the oscillators, but this was removed to reduce cost. no pure sine osc,

SVF outputs are switched, not mixable (again, to reduce cost). There are two SVFs though, currently both get set to same mode but eventually they could be independent (i.e. one SVF in bandpass, one in lowpass for example) and those would mix.

distortion is gain staging, plenty of headroom for creamy sounds. No CEMs, all new discrete VCOs, definite step up from the Sub 37 VCOs in basic tone.


...they could have saved up on the wood work and add these important things in, oh well.
percussion boy
nectarios wrote:
percussion boy wrote:
nectarios wrote:
And this is going to be the internet for the next few weeks.

- Moog One sounds great but nothing special
- Its the best synth ever you don't find it special cause you can't afford it.
- But it does not actually sound nearly as good as the price tag suggests.
- You are not a pro that's why you don't hear the quality of the sound...

...ad infinitum.


The other dead horse to beat will be Memorymoog comparisons ... which of course Moog invited by making the One lookk like a Memorymoog.

And whatever the One turns out to be sonically, it doesn’t sound like a Memorymoog. Which is too bad imo. Apparently Behringer will have to be the one to do a poly with Curtis oscs + ladder filters, if anyone does.


I was hoping it would sound like Synthmania's Moog Memorymoog "Beauty" that also uses Eventide effects (and also suffers from the same mp3 compression), but what I have heard from One (so far, still early days, yet plenty of audio available to audition now), is no where near...yes.. too bad imo too.

If anything, playing Synthmania's clip and then going through the One demos, makes me wonder...why can't someone just get *that* sound nowdays? There I was thinking, ok 6 - 8 grand, hello CEM3340 chips....nope.

I would not be surprised if Behringer that makes CEM3340 chips, comes out with some 16 voice poly with CEM VCOs and a killer ladder and oberheim(ish) state variable VCF...you know kinda clone the A6 and make a "chep" poly that will slay the One and A6 together, in terms of raw sound.

Anyhow, I do think there is a cost involved with the unit and Amos is a friend, so in all honesty this whole thing, is no surprise, Moog is Moog and their followers will rejoice....good smile


Ha! I listened to Paolo’s “Beauty” vid as well, before posting above. I would pay good money for a synth that does ... that. Never got over my one personal encounter with a used Memorymoog I should have bought.

Undoubtedly there are people who will get a lot of pleasure out of the One, though.
dubonaire
nectarios wrote:
...they could have saved up on the wood work and add these important things in, oh well.


I'm not sure about that. As far as I can see there is no fancy joinery and timber is not that expensive. There is not much timber used and there is no need for the cost of making molds or dies. I'm not especially a big fan of Moog or wood, but I look at this synth and think I'd like to sit down in front of that. In fact this and the PX are two of the most desirable synths I've ever seen so very envious Mr Sinamsis.

We are, in a way, in a period in which the failed hopes and aspirations of these early designers are being realized now that affordability and technology have caught up. I think there is nothing wrong with a bit of romanticism that these instruments afford.

A Gary Numan interview is a classic example. He had to tour with multiple backups of his synths because they were so fragile and temperamental. You hear of so many stories of synths going out of tune and needing to be tuned mid set multiple times. Gary Numan also talks about needing to change synth settings for the next song while they were playing the current song. Pretty amazing actually.

Synthesizers are awesome, and we've never seen a better time for synthesizers.
Panason
Quote:
Apparently the original design for signal routing included a mixer-bypass for the oscillators, but this was removed to reduce cost. no pure sine osc,

SVF outputs are switched, not mixable (again, to reduce cost).


laaame!
Angroc
nectarios wrote:

I am waiting to see if there is a sine waveform on the oscs, if the different state variable outs can be mixed or are hard switched only and if there is a possibility to add and mix waveforms, post filter so for example add a sine wave, post filter and have a solid bottom end, regardless of filter resonance/cut off settings.


Good question. Not only for bottom-end; FM sounds way better with sines to my ears.

nectarios wrote:
Apparently the original design for signal routing included a mixer-bypass for the oscillators, but this was removed to reduce cost. no pure sine osc,

SVF outputs are switched, not mixable (again, to reduce cost). There are two SVFs though, currently both get set to same mode but eventually they could be independent (i.e. one SVF in bandpass, one in lowpass for example) and those would mix.


Wow yeah that's indeed a shame.

What do you mean two SVFs? You mean per voice there's 1 ladder filter plus 2 SVFs? Why wouldn't they just expose both SVFs? With 3 filters one could do some gnarly formant based patches.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
Quote:
Apparently the original design for signal routing included a mixer-bypass for the oscillators, but this was removed to reduce cost. no pure sine osc,

SVF outputs are switched, not mixable (again, to reduce cost).


laaame!


I wonder if people who think this is an issue even have studios.
Panason
Touche - I wonder if people who actually buy Moog furniture even need a svf....

This would sit nicely in my art deco living room, it would look out of place in my messy studio among the utilitarian metal boxes!
Sinamsis
Angroc wrote:
nectarios wrote:
The more I look at this the more it appears that the people who designed the panel and interface, had a good look at the Andromeda. The push mod source button/touch destination knob arrangement, take this to the next level though.


My immediate thoughts too. Seems more and more like a direct upgrade. There's just so many similarities! Bunch of menus on the screen even, a price you have to pay for a synth this deep. Only downside compared to an A6 I can see/hear so far is the number timbres. I just hope peoples fear of the unsealed pots is ungrounded, and that it won't turn into an Andy in its later years. confused

Like others in this thread, what excites me here is the flexible audiorouting, which is one thing that the Andy lacks.

Also, I asked on the Amos AMA at reddit about the voicesharing between parts, and he had this to say:

Quote:
1) As of now, it's best to reserve voices per timbre, although there are many flexible options for how to do that. (for example you can reserve a few voices for certain layers and assign all available voices to the remaining layers)
ama here

So it sounds like we'll get the best of both worlds here? I'm feeling gassy again. razz


I’ll say it again. The One has 3 unsealed rotary switches according to Paul. The A6 has a ton of pots that are unsealed. All of the pots except for maybe the volume or something. That’s a HUGE difference. All A6s will eventually experience failure of those pots. Values will jump. It will be impossible to use the front panel to program the synth. I found that covering mine helps slow the process, and using a cleaner (there’s a thread somewhere on GS where someone reached out to Alesis for a recommended product) if it’s really bad. So far mines ok. But when I got it the pots were very jumpy.

Edit: in terms of flexible audio routing, the A6 is a lot better than other synths. Not as complex as the one, but certain parts can bypass the filters, and the filters can function in series or parallel. Also it's worth noting that the envelopes are more complex on the A6. It's nothing to sneeze at, there are a lot of interesting things that the A6 can do that the One might not be able to. I particularly like the R2 level and rate control, where you can have essentially an attack/decay envelope when you release a note.
nectarios
Angroc wrote:
nectarios wrote:

I am waiting to see if there is a sine waveform on the oscs, if the different state variable outs can be mixed or are hard switched only and if there is a possibility to add and mix waveforms, post filter so for example add a sine wave, post filter and have a solid bottom end, regardless of filter resonance/cut off settings.


Good question. Not only for bottom-end; FM sounds way better with sines to my ears.

nectarios wrote:
Apparently the original design for signal routing included a mixer-bypass for the oscillators, but this was removed to reduce cost. no pure sine osc,

SVF outputs are switched, not mixable (again, to reduce cost). There are two SVFs though, currently both get set to same mode but eventually they could be independent (i.e. one SVF in bandpass, one in lowpass for example) and those would mix.


Wow yeah that's indeed a shame.

What do you mean two SVFs? You mean per voice there's 1 ladder filter plus 2 SVFs? Why wouldn't they just expose both SVFs? With 3 filters one could do some gnarly formant based patches.


Oh for sure, having sine waves on the Andromeda is great as I use them all the time for both linear and exponential FM. But even if there is no sine on the Moog One, even mixing the triangle post filter would help...although you really need a sine to avoid any harmonics whatsoever...even though depending on the filter cut-off, the triangle's low in amplitude overtones could be somewhat masked.

I am not sure if it has two SVFs. In the video there are two routing options, one to the ladder and one to the SVF. I guess further demos will reveal this.

I think not having these features will not stop people from buying it...but its crazy that these features, where not employed to cut the costs on a synth that costs...8699€.
Final_Instrument
Wife said no waah
Ranxerox
Moog must have looked at the prices the Memorymoog goes for on the enthusiast/collectors' market, and surmised that a modern equivalent costing about as much would capture the remainder unwilling to gamble on a vintage synth not blowing up on them.

The same as Ferrari not giving a toss about the guy driving a Mazda Miata's opinion of the F60, I guarantee Moog couldn't give two shits what those of us in the peanut gallery - for whom even half the asking is a huge outlay - think about it's feature spec, value for money, parts BOM, aesthetics or anything else.
lisa
Final_Instrument wrote:
Wife said no waah

Why would she do that to you when you guys obviously have that kind of spending cash and plenty of room for it? Does she hate you?
Sir Ruff
Ranxerox wrote:
I guarantee Moog couldn't give two shits what those of us in the peanut gallery - for whom even half the asking is a huge outlay - think about it's feature spec, value for money, parts BOM, aesthetics or anything else.


When you look back at the vintage polys of the past, no one was complaining how expensive the P-5 or OB-X were when they were first released. Eventually those companies went made super cutdown products for "everyone else", but they were always inferior. Can't have it both ways.

I'm genuinely torn at the moment--definitely need to hear more demos. I'm wary of the modulation insanity being a bit of a distraction from the core sound, which may ultimately not be any better than the current cheaper DSI stuff out there. Then again, the dual filter aspect is unique (shared only with the A6) and there should be a lot of potential in that that we haven't really heard yet.
GovernorSilver
Ranxerox wrote:
Moog must have looked at the prices the Memorymoog goes for on the enthusiast/collectors' market, and surmised that a modern equivalent costing about as much would capture the remainder unwilling to gamble on a vintage synth not blowing up on them.



I suppose there's something to this theory, with "equivalent" being the key word rather than "clone" or "reissue". I can see why some wanted this to be an updated Memorymoog but that's not what Moog is promoting here, otherwise they would have proudly mentioned that the One has the same Curtis chips as whatever version of the Memorymoog.
Exhale
MOOG is a big brand like say Gibson or Fender.
No one expects a great Les Paul for 1000-2000 USD.
R9 reissue is where the sound starts = 5000$
So....

But it certainly shall be a commercial success.
First poly synth around 35 years.... Woosh woosh ))) It's peanut butter jelly time!
Lux A Turner
oranginafiend wrote:
TWO DIFFERENT FILTERS?? 4 LFOS???


*cough* Korg Z1 *cough* (4 EG's, too - HOW INSANE IS THAT?????)
hippo1
Well, throw my hat in the ring. A poly Moog, updated and thoroughly modern. [Future-proofed with a LAN, at least for the NEAR future?]

Put me on the list.

In twelve years, I'll be able to buy one.
THIS is the reason people play the lottery, yes?
Sir Ruff
Another new demo here. Really liking the first intro sound. That's what we needed to hear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApSKSJNV0zw
tehyar
Well I'm sold. What a package! Unfortunately the only way I'll own one in the near future is if the Quantum doesn't live up to expectations and goes back. Having both come out around the same time is fucking brutal.
EPTC
Sir Ruff wrote:
Another new demo here. Really liking the first intro sound. That's what we needed to hear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApSKSJNV0zw


Okay that's pretty nuanced and splendid. Thanks.

To embed:

Illiac
Glad some of you are digging the Vintage King video. It was super fun to shoot.

Curious to know where the crazy and out there One demos are though. Was it the deep dive thing that Amos did?
RickKleffel
Hmmmm...Moog One, or Quantum + Pulsar 23.....? Not a difficult question for me.....

All a matter of taste [and space]
gringostar
Am I the only person wishing they would release a mono synth with the new oscillators/filters/matrix/effects from the One?

Basically an update to the explorer with all these new features would be amazing since I've come to realize I don't really like poly analogues.
latigid on
gringostar wrote:
Am I the only person wishing they would release a mono synth with the new oscillators/filters/matrix/effects from the One?

Basically an update to the explorer with all these new features would be amazing since I've come to realize I don't really like poly analogues.


What to call it though? Moog None? Moog Eighth?
nectarios
latigid on wrote:
gringostar wrote:
Am I the only person wishing they would release a mono synth with the new oscillators/filters/matrix/effects from the One?

Basically an update to the explorer with all these new features would be amazing since I've come to realize I don't really like poly analogues.


What to call it though? Moog None? Moog Eighth?


Moog Solo obviously.
tehyar
nectarios wrote:
latigid on wrote:
gringostar wrote:
Am I the only person wishing they would release a mono synth with the new oscillators/filters/matrix/effects from the One?

Basically an update to the explorer with all these new features would be amazing since I've come to realize I don't really like poly analogues.


What to call it though? Moog None? Moog Eighth?


Moog Solo obviously.


Disney releases Han's father's name. It's Moog. Legal battle ensues.
gringostar
nectarios wrote:
Moog Solo obviously.


Moog 99 Drunk Banana

But with both the explorer and reissue out of production there is absolutely a spot for a new flagship mono since the sub 37/grandmother shouldn't be considered on even though they are fantastic.
Sinamsis
dubonaire wrote:
nectarios wrote:
...they could have saved up on the wood work and add these important things in, oh well.


I'm not sure about that. As far as I can see there is no fancy joinery and timber is not that expensive. There is not much timber used and there is no need for the cost of making molds or dies. I'm not especially a big fan of Moog or wood, but I look at this synth and think I'd like to sit down in front of that. In fact this and the PX are two of the most desirable synths I've ever seen so very envious Mr Sinamsis.

We are, in a way, in a period in which the failed hopes and aspirations of these early designers are being realized now that affordability and technology have caught up. I think there is nothing wrong with a bit of romanticism that these instruments afford.

A Gary Numan interview is a classic example. He had to tour with multiple backups of his synths because they were so fragile and temperamental. You hear of so many stories of synths going out of tune and needing to be tuned mid set multiple times. Gary Numan also talks about needing to change synth settings for the next song while they were playing the current song. Pretty amazing actually.

Synthesizers are awesome, and we've never seen a better time for synthesizers.



Well said! Well don't be envious yet! There's plenty of time for something to go wrong, but as it stands I should be getting one of the first batch. Ha, I obviously did not spring for the lower serial numbers... I think it will sound just as good. I've said it for a few years now, we are living in a golden age right now (and I do think golden, not gilded). It can be very distracting, for me at least; there are so many good options, at many different price points. Personally, I don't feel the need to do vintage with few exceptions.
Sinamsis
Regarding lack of sine wave, in my experience that's not uncommon with analog polys (in fact I think more analog polys that I've owned have not had sine wave as a VCO option). I agree that I really do prefer sine for FM. However, a self oscillating filter (especially since there are two, you can selectively route oscillators to each filter and they can be in series or parallel) is a great option if it can track pitch well, and uniformly across all voices.
peripatitis
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?
v8pete
Some superb demo's of the modulation capabilities in this latest video. An awful lot of work must have gone into the UI design and software. Very impressive!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49vHK_D5-gA
mor4sso
peripatitis wrote:
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?


think a 16 voice euro system with a similar spec sheet would be less than 8k?

Dead Banana
phesago
metasonix wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
tioJim wrote:
huffnPuff wrote:
This thread...
d'oh!

I know, right? It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed to be part of this community sometimes. In fact I'm not even sure I want to be.
Moog release a synthesiser and all the kiddies shit the bed. It's pretty pathetic.
Whoever posted the pic of cock. Dude, grow up.

Unfortunately Metasonix has phallomania and litters Muffwiggler with dick pics on a regular basis.



applause
tehyar
mor4sso wrote:


think a 16 voice euro system with a similar spec sheet would be less than 8k?

Dead Banana


Does it have to include patch storage and recall for 10,000 patches? hihi
Angroc
Sinamsis wrote:
Regarding lack of sine wave, in my experience that's not uncommon with analog polys (in fact I think more analog polys that I've owned have not had sine wave as a VCO option). I agree that I really do prefer sine for FM. However, a self oscillating filter (especially since there are two, you can selectively route oscillators to each filter and they can be in series or parallel) is a great option if it can track pitch well, and uniformly across all voices.


Yeah it's not common at all. I'm not an expert but I guess there' must be a logical reason to this. Your argument for filter works if you want to ouput it as sound. But FM'ing another OSC or filter is with a sine is where the magic lies. That's atleast my experience from messing with this in a polyphonic setting on the A6.

This discussion has, if anything, once again shown how awesome and well featured the Andy really is, in spite of its shortcomings.

peripatitis wrote:
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?


I fully relate to you here. I think west-coast synthesis and through zero ought to be explored more on a patch recallable and polyphonic synth. Or instead of 3 VCOs, I would have loved to see a third OSC be sample based, a bit like what Jomox did with the SynSyn's RCO. But this is Moog we're talking about here, after all. Heck, the inclusion of a HPF made me raise an eyebrow in surprise.

I am sure in the right hands this thing can sound far out, given all its modulation and routing capabilities.
chaosick
peripatitis wrote:
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?


Agreed.
chaosick
mor4sso wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?


think a 16 voice euro system with a similar spec sheet would be less than 8k?

Dead Banana


Of course not..as always, the more modulation you have, the less total voices you need. And plenty of things you can do on a massive poly like this that'd be pointless to try and recreate in euro. But you don't need to. To me it was very telling that in that 20 min promo video the only person who appeared to do any real tweaking or much actual modulation was Suzanne Ciani. For everyone else it's like: ooh, fancy organ/keyboard for seasoned keyboard player. Yay. That's a bit step backwards, but I guess that's their main demographic.
metasonix
Posted on FB yesterday. Font is small because I was trying to catch as much of his list as possible, and still didn't quite get it all. He swears he's serious. Yes he posted it in buy/sell, and already sold many items.
brokensolderingiron
Oh! the dramas, Oh! the desperation!
jmcecil
Illiac wrote:
Glad some of you are digging the Vintage King video. It was super fun to shoot.

Curious to know where the crazy and out there One demos are though. Was it the deep dive thing that Amos did?

Really there haven't been much in the way of crazy yet. Although Amos doing some drum groove was cool. It's most just feature exploration and explanation so far. So, make another with some goofball patches. I'm like a 6 year old who knows Christmas day is just around the corner. I don't like it when I wish several weeks would just bleep by so I can have my new toy.
Sinamsis
Angroc
I’m not following you. The LFOs have sine wave as an option and I believe they go up to audio rates.... so you can have FM between two sines.
jmcecil
On one of the demos, the square morph + that secondary squisher control looked like it went through sort of sine, which is as good as most sines are on most analog VCOs. Unless they have a specific sine as second oscillator source on the board.
mor4sso
chaosick wrote:
mor4sso wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?


think a 16 voice euro system with a similar spec sheet would be less than 8k?

Dead Banana


Of course not..as always, the more modulation you have, the less total voices you need. And plenty of things you can do on a massive poly like this that'd be pointless to try and recreate in euro. But you don't need to. To me it was very telling that in that 20 min promo video the only person who appeared to do any real tweaking or much actual modulation was Suzanne Ciani. For everyone else it's like: ooh, fancy organ/keyboard for seasoned keyboard player. Yay. That's a bit step backwards, but I guess that's their main demographic.


It's a false equivalency. That's what I'm trying to point out...
MoogProDG
mor4sso wrote:
chaosick wrote:
mor4sso wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
There have been so many advances in this modular spring we are experiencing, I can't help but being a little bit cynic when seeing such an instrument.
Obviously this is more like strength by numbers but if i try to compare the oscillators with the thru-zero ones found in euro, the noise source with something like a ura, the filters with all this advancements we've seen recently and the modulation options, the Moog feels not like it should do imo.
Have they been living in a vacuum?


think a 16 voice euro system with a similar spec sheet would be less than 8k?

Dead Banana


Of course not..as always, the more modulation you have, the less total voices you need. And plenty of things you can do on a massive poly like this that'd be pointless to try and recreate in euro. But you don't need to. To me it was very telling that in that 20 min promo video the only person who appeared to do any real tweaking or much actual modulation was Suzanne Ciani. For everyone else it's like: ooh, fancy organ/keyboard for seasoned keyboard player. Yay. That's a bit step backwards, but I guess that's their main demographic.


It's a false equivalency. That's what I'm trying to point out...



Nothing but respect, brother. But shouldn’t you be making it aware that you are a Moog employee? If you are no longer with the company then disregard this post..
MindMachine
EPTC wrote:
Panason wrote:
And potted plants next to studio gear look great until it's time to water them....


Yeah that gives me the hives! Add bugs and dirt to that. I love plants, but that has to reduce the life on all the electronics, just from transient dirt and humidity.



Agreed. Stark cleanroom chic is much more conducive to creative environments.

The dust kicked up by the bass notes alone must take years off of the life of some instruments. Especially the ones with sliders. Bad move.
nectarios
metasonix wrote:
Posted on FB yesterday. Font is small because I was trying to catch as much of his list as possible, and still didn't quite get it all. He swears he's serious. Yes he posted it in buy/sell, and already sold many items.


lol
gringostar
metasonix wrote:
Posted on FB yesterday. Font is small because I was trying to catch as much of his list as possible, and still didn't quite get it all. He swears he's serious. Yes he posted it in buy/sell, and already sold many items.


That list is comming from inside muffs Dead Banana
umma gumma
that Amos Garrett demo is really good, looking forward to part 2
Exhale
Two posts above. Did someone help him ? Called a psychiatrist ?
Panason
He just realized he wasn't making any actual music with all that modular stuff... or the OB6..... the name is "Sean Krell" ... and he's in LA.... can't get no satisfaction by having all the things, who knew!

Some people will probably think the Moog One is some kind of magical workstation that will do everything and it is analog AND Moog so it's gonna sound 10 times better because Moog "invented the keyboard synthesizer" and it's an American company , and we all know that USA is Number One.
Air Force One, XBOX One, Moog One, you get the picture.

Better than Russia and China, anyway!
DiscoDevil
I am contemplating selling half my studio to pay for One. I'll wait until everyone else is done panic purging their gear though.
Exhale
First of all we need more demos in good quality.
And more important, try to play it by ourselves, before buying.

Selling lots of stuff just to fund a polyphonic synthesizer maybe not a good idea.
For sequences and leads most of the polys fail compared to good, cheap monos.

And if a person sells lots of modular stuff to fund a poly, this is little bit strange.
My question is "Why did you buy all this particular stuff if in the end you want a poly?"
nectarios
Exhale wrote:

And if a person sells lots of modular stuff to fund a poly, this is little bit strange.
My question is "Why did you buy all this particular stuff if in the end you want a poly?"


Because eurorack became the new cool thing and having lots of modules is for many people (*note* not all, or most even) something like a statement of how cool they are, regardless of their "musical"/production, output. So many people started selling their keyboards, or trading them even (that is how I got my Andromeda) for modules.

If Moog manages to swing that around (past the transient hysteria), it will be a major win for their marketing department.

The Moog One does not need effort to get something nice out of it, as opposed to modular synths.

Honestly, I hope it sells well and I am waiting for it to come to Greece so people will start dumping their (modular) synths for cheap...I am going to right there to buy them smile
jcn7
I applaud Moog for branching out into the poly market, but to be honest, I have not heard anything from the various demos that make me feel like "Wow" I've got to have this. This may have something to do with having owned most of the big poly's in the past (and prefer their sound ie: Rhodes Chroma and Expander, OBXa, Oberheim Xpander, etc...)and I also tend to work with modular and semi modular these days anyway.

Also as a note of interest: I have been seeing posts on various sites that seem to indicate that Sequential may have yet another synth coming out in the near future and speculation that perhaps Tom Oberheim and his products may somehow be in the mix of new surprises coming.

I for one have always preferred the sound of Oberheim products over their contemporaries and the thought that PERHAPS Tom may be partnering with Dave (or even someone else...perhaps like Studio Electronics did with Roland) for a future Oberheim release makes me ponder something that Amos stated in this video:

Moog One Sound Demo

at time 52:00-52:03 "That we do need to ship this thing sooner than later" (this statement was in reference to the microtonal tuning that is not yet implemented but will be in the future).

That statement struck me as a point of interest in the mix of these other rumors that are currently going around.

I honestly have no real info one way or the other on this, however, if I were Moog, I would certainly want this out before any new competitor's competing product were announced...especially if another product starts with the letter "O" and is priced under the "Moog One".

Just my random thoughts... smile

What do you guys think?

Anyway, my best to Moog on "The One"...I wish them success.
GovernorSilver
jcn7 wrote:


Also as a note of interest: I have been seeing posts on various sites that seem to indicate that Sequential may have yet another synth coming out in the near future and speculation that perhaps Tom Oberheim and his products may somehow be in the mix of new surprises coming.



Yet another reason to wait a bit before buying - not like I have a choice at the moment. The OB-6 sounds nice to me, but it'd be a shame if Tom Oberheim stopped with that.

I like the sound of the Dreadbox Abyss polysynth but Dreadbox doesn't seem to be making more at the moment. There's a mini-documentary in which they talk a bit about upcoming work. Needless to say, the Medusa and Erebus v3 are not the last synths we will ever see from Dreadbox.

Korg's Prologue is all but forgotten, no thanks in part to a tuning problem with 3 certain notes in one of the lower octaves. But some interesting custom oscillator work has been done on the digital side.

Not being in desperate need of a new analog or hybrid polysynth allows me to wait a bit to see what emerges from Moog's competition, as well as Moog itself if/when a lower-priced polysynth is released.

I'm sure players such as yourself who use alternative controllers (Continuum, Seaboard, etc.) would prefer a Moog polysynth in module form. They plan to address the MPE and Poly AT fans with a future OS update, but even with the OS update, you're looking at a 45lb. keyboard that you need to drag out to gigs with your favorite MPE/Poly AT controller.
Panason
A digitally controlled 8 voice SEM with unified controls for all 8 voices and with a desktop version might be a good competitor Guinness ftw!

Can't see Moog releasing a desktop One.
Dave Peck
Sinamsis wrote:
Angroc
I’m not following you. The LFOs have sine wave as an option and I believe they go up to audio rates.... so you can have FM between two sines.


Yes, which is useful for some things, but you cannot route these FM'd audio-rate LFOs to the mixer & filters, so you can't hear them as audio oscs. You can only use them as CV sources to modulate other destinations.

However, apparently there are controls in the audio oscs to 'warp' or 'bend' the audio osc waveform shapes, in addition to the traditional PWM and TRI/SAW modulation controls, and I'm wondering if this control may allow you to add a curved shape to the triangle waveform, which would get you very close to a sine.... This control was mentioned in one of the demos and you could see how it warped the waveform shape on one of the small OLED displays, but they didn't go into any technical details about exactly what it was doing...
GovernorSilver
Panason wrote:
A digitally controlled 8 voice SEM with unified controls for all 8 voices and with a desktop version might be a good competitor Guinness ftw!

Can't see Moog releasing a desktop One.


Whatever the new Sequential is going to be, I'm guessing it's not going to be 8 SEMs in one box. Not arguing against it happening, just looking at the OB-6 an how it turned out - it's not 6 SEMs in one synth, it's more like a Dave Smith polysynth with Oberheim filters and stuff.

I don't think there will be a spec-for-spec One module, but I can see a module with some subset of the One feature set implemented. Moog Zero Point 5 or whatever.
J3RK
GovernorSilver wrote:
...but even with the OS update, you're looking at a 45lb. keyboard that you need to drag out to gigs with your favorite MPE/Poly AT controller.


I would use this simple question to determine whether or not it's a gigging instrument for you.

Do you have roadies?

Yes = It's a gigging instrument, but you may want another for the studio.
No = Leave it in the studio, and bring something else to the gig.

lol
GovernorSilver
J3RK wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
...but even with the OS update, you're looking at a 45lb. keyboard that you need to drag out to gigs with your favorite MPE/Poly AT controller.


I would use this simple question to determine whether or not it's a gigging instrument for you.

Do you have roadies?

Yes = It's a gigging instrument, but you may want another for the studio.
No = Leave it in the studio, and bring something else to the gig.

lol


For me, it's not, because I don't intend to buy it - at least now. I'm happy to wait for some stripped down version, and I'm sure Moog will do it because it's unlikely they're going to just kick up their heels and rake in the bucks after all the One units are out of factory and on the store shelves.

There was some guy being all dramatic about poly AT missing - dunno if he's here too, but I think he forgot to account that after they add poly AT responsiveness to the synth, the keyboard itself doesn't have it.
Dave Peck
Lux A Turner wrote:
oranginafiend wrote:
TWO DIFFERENT FILTERS?? 4 LFOS???


*cough* Korg Z1 *cough* (4 EG's, too - HOW INSANE IS THAT?????)


Well, yeah, and the Alesis Ion has two different filters per voice as well, and those can be any of more than a dozen filter types. And both the Z1 and the Ion have much more verstaile filter routing / mixing than the simple either/or osc routing switches and either/or parallel/serial filter routing switch on the Moog One.

But both of those are VA polys, not analog polys. If we want to start comparing VA polys to the Moog One, there's stuff like the Nord Modular which can have waaaay more filters per voice and far more complex mixing/routing capabilities.

When comparing the Moog One to analog polys only, there aren't many that have two independent variable-routing filters per voice. Andromeda, Chroma, Schmidt, CS80 (two filters per voice, but no variable serial/parallel filter routing), and that's about it.
J3RK
GovernorSilver wrote:
J3RK wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
...but even with the OS update, you're looking at a 45lb. keyboard that you need to drag out to gigs with your favorite MPE/Poly AT controller.


I would use this simple question to determine whether or not it's a gigging instrument for you.

Do you have roadies?

Yes = It's a gigging instrument, but you may want another for the studio.
No = Leave it in the studio, and bring something else to the gig.

lol


For me, it's not, because I don't intend to buy it - at least now. I'm happy to wait for some stripped down version, and I'm sure Moog will do it because it's unlikely they're going to just kick up their heels and rake in the bucks after all the One units are out of factory and on the store shelves.

There was some guy being all dramatic about poly AT missing - dunno if he's here too, but I think he forgot to account that after they add poly AT responsiveness to the synth, the keyboard itself doesn't have it.


Poly AT is a tricky one. Patents have been out for a while, so it's fair game, but there have been two main ways to do it before. The cheap Ensoniq way, and I believe Yamaha used a much more expensive way, but I don't know all the details there. I was told the differences a long time ago, but mono has always been fine for my needs, so I never paid much attention.

If I was Moog, I'd probably not want a cheap method employed on my flagship. Going a more expensive route would result in much higher prices than it already is. I think it's understandable that they chose not to include it. There's a reason Yamaha isn't selling CS-80s now. hihi Not worth the complexity, cost, and shall we say girth...

I'd love to see this feature start showing up more, but until Fatar starts implementing it, I doubt we will.

Still, the One is looking pretty formidable. I'd love to get one myself, but that would be a long term thing. I'm not in the position to right now, and don't want to ditch everything I have to get it. Though to be honest, I could still make music with just a One. w00t
CosmicFlight
Can someone tell us about the envelopes of the Moog one ?
I'm curious if it is kind of digital like the Sub37..
J3RK
CosmicFlight wrote:
Can someone tell us about the envelopes of the Moog one ?
I'm curious if it is kind of digital like the Sub37..


Envelopes and LFOs on a large poly like this more or less have to be digital. (The One's envelopes are as far as I'm aware, but not 100% sure there. Envelopes and LFOs are the only features not explicitly listed with the "analog" prefix on the Moog site for one.) I mean, nothing's stopping someone from making analog ones, or hybrids maybe, but I don't think it's widely done these days.

I posted this elsewhere, but look at the voicing.

You've got 16 voices (on that model). Each voice has three envelopes. That's 48 envelopes. If you wanted to build these with prevailing SMT parts (0805 let's say though they could be bigger or smaller) That's about 1" x 3/4" (maybe a little more maybe a little less) per envelope. X48. That's a LOT of board space from something that won't really benefit from being analog in the first place. Each envelope segment appears to be continuously variable in shape (from linear to curved). That means you can create just about any imaginable envelope shape.

Whether or not they coded in some slight variation between each EG is another thing, and something I don't know. Personally, I'd rather the modulators be as accurate as possible, and leave the subtleties to the oscillators, filters, mixing and amplifiers.

There's an underlying computer controlling everything though, so just about anything is possible with this thing. It's really quite impressive.

As far as it just being digital, processor tech has come a long way from when digital envelopes were too slow to be "snappy" or fast-responding. You can make a digital envelope so fast it would be nothing but a tiny click. (which isn't all that useful) At any real settings it's not really a consideration, and there's processor time to spare.
GovernorSilver
J3RK wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
J3RK wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
...but even with the OS update, you're looking at a 45lb. keyboard that you need to drag out to gigs with your favorite MPE/Poly AT controller.


I would use this simple question to determine whether or not it's a gigging instrument for you.

Do you have roadies?

Yes = It's a gigging instrument, but you may want another for the studio.
No = Leave it in the studio, and bring something else to the gig.

lol


For me, it's not, because I don't intend to buy it - at least now. I'm happy to wait for some stripped down version, and I'm sure Moog will do it because it's unlikely they're going to just kick up their heels and rake in the bucks after all the One units are out of factory and on the store shelves.

There was some guy being all dramatic about poly AT missing - dunno if he's here too, but I think he forgot to account that after they add poly AT responsiveness to the synth, the keyboard itself doesn't have it.


Poly AT is a tricky one. Patents have been out for a while, so it's fair game, but there have been two main ways to do it before. The cheap Ensoniq way, and I believe Yamaha used a much more expensive way, but I don't know all the details there. I was told the differences a long time ago, but mono has always been fine for my needs, so I never paid much attention.


Dude in question has a VAX77 (something like that) as his PolyAT controller. Loudly stated only reason he won't buy a One because of no PolyAT. Well, dude, now you have to bring two keyboards at least to the gig (VAX and One) if you don't want to wait for a module.

I presume you could set one of the three timbres to respond to aftertouch and disable it for the other two as one workaround. Chick Corea nearly fooled me into thinking there was poly AT with his creative playing approach - he pushed a topiside key down for aftertouch vibrato, but timed it so that the vibrate kicked in as he was lifting his left hand from playing the bass note and chord that it holding - you can barely hear the vibrato start to affect the left hand notes.
J3RK
GovernorSilver wrote:
J3RK wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
J3RK wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
...but even with the OS update, you're looking at a 45lb. keyboard that you need to drag out to gigs with your favorite MPE/Poly AT controller.


I would use this simple question to determine whether or not it's a gigging instrument for you.

Do you have roadies?

Yes = It's a gigging instrument, but you may want another for the studio.
No = Leave it in the studio, and bring something else to the gig.

lol


For me, it's not, because I don't intend to buy it - at least now. I'm happy to wait for some stripped down version, and I'm sure Moog will do it because it's unlikely they're going to just kick up their heels and rake in the bucks after all the One units are out of factory and on the store shelves.

There was some guy being all dramatic about poly AT missing - dunno if he's here too, but I think he forgot to account that after they add poly AT responsiveness to the synth, the keyboard itself doesn't have it.


Poly AT is a tricky one. Patents have been out for a while, so it's fair game, but there have been two main ways to do it before. The cheap Ensoniq way, and I believe Yamaha used a much more expensive way, but I don't know all the details there. I was told the differences a long time ago, but mono has always been fine for my needs, so I never paid much attention.


Dude in question has a VAX77 (something like that) as his PolyAT controller. Loudly stated only reason he won't buy a One because of no PolyAT. Well, dude, now you have to bring two keyboards at least to the gig (VAX and One) if you don't want to wait for a module.

I presume you could set one of the three timbres to respond to aftertouch and disable it for the other two as one workaround. Chick Corea nearly fooled me into thinking there was poly AT with his creative playing approach - he pushed a topiside key down for aftertouch vibrato, but timed it so that the vibrate kicked in as he was lifting his left hand from playing the bass note and chord that it holding - you can barely hear the vibrato start to affect the left hand notes.


Ah yes, the VAX... I was excited about those... and... they are now defunct if memory serves, because they couldn't get consistent tooling or something? Not sure if this was the exact case, but I seem to remember something about that. (could totally be mistaken there)

Yeah, dude should complain less. hihi
EPTC
Panason wrote:
Can't see Moog releasing a desktop One.

Yeah, I think that's a desktop None. My biggest criticism is Moog never has desktops of their recent stuff and I don't like collecting keyboards. There's the Minitaur and Slim Phatty, (and the FAMs) which I adore, but very few other examples. (There's the Voyager RME, too)

I've been begging for a Sub 37 module for years. Meanwhile, DSI came out with a desktop OB6 within a year and it was a quick purchase on my part.

Some chop shop, a la, Studio Electronics' MidiMoog that would chop up a Moog One (even at extra cost) into a non-keyboard version would get me in the door on that.

But if you add any more than 2-3 keyboards it just starts looking very silly. One more keyboard to my studio and I've got the beginning of a Guitar Center cosplay. If you already have good controllers, it's like adding a useless slab of wood to a product. Endless room for desktop modules, though. I'd love a ton of desktop Moogs - Grandmother, Sub37, One, how y'all doing!
Panason
I'll just get the UB-X (desktop) and layer it with some Serum presets screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
J3RK
Panason wrote:
I'll just get the UB-X (desktop) and layer it with some Serum presets screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo


Not a bad approach.

Doesn't make me want a One any less, but there are definitely plenty of alternatives. I'm still squeezing new things out of my Rev2, and nobody seems to like those. lol (at least none of the cool kids)
GovernorSilver
The existence of the DFAM and Mother-32 makes me think a One module could be possible - perhaps the size of 3 DFAM units side to side. Or maybe a Point Five.
J3RK
It wouldn't hurt... or two sets of two-post racks, with eight Mothers in each?
GovernorSilver
I guess it'd have to be.a cut-down version of One, because of the five fans required to keep One from overheating.

A 0Point TwentyFive in a module the size of 2 M32s with 4 voice poly, no built-in FX, uniitimbral would be fine for me.
anselmi
GovernorSilver wrote:
I guess it'd have to be.a cut-down version of One, because of the five fans required to keep One from overheating.

A 0Point TwentyFive in a module the size of 2 M32s with 4 voice poly, no built-in FX, uniitimbral would be fine for me.


+1

and no memories, no matrix mod...just the poly stuff and the sound: win!
J3RK
anselmi wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
I guess it'd have to be.a cut-down version of One, because of the five fans required to keep One from overheating.

A 0Point TwentyFive in a module the size of 2 M32s with 4 voice poly, no built-in FX, uniitimbral would be fine for me.


+1

and no memories, no matrix mod...just the poly stuff and the sound: win!


I don't really think they could separate the analog and digital fully on this instrument. If they've already got the processing and conversion in there, memory is no big deal. Looking at the VCO patent doc, you can see that they were designed with some processor control in mind. I'm sure they could be reworked, but they may lose some of what makes them different.

As far as fans go, I'm pretty sure they're using 5 so they can run them at low (sub-audible) RPMs to get the same flow as one or two at higher RPM. I'm sure there's plenty of heat generated in there, but maybe that could be mitigated if they explored other form factors. Then again, maybe not. That keyboard is fairly spacious compared to what a desktop would be.

I wouldn't be at all opposed the a two-VCO monotimbral version though that still maintained much of the cool features in wave shaping, and the multimode filter. Actually, make that bi-timbral. Then it could be called the Moog Point Six Seven. Two thirds of a Moog One.
brokensolderingiron
I hope people understand they get a Dacia Duster for less money then a MoogOne!
https://auto.ndtvimg.com/car-images/big/renault/duster/renault-duster. jpg?v=25
Panason
Memes in the making
Sinamsis
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.
Sir Ruff
Sinamsis wrote:
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.


yeah, the patch switching delay on the Modal stuff was kind of mind-boggling and also super irritating. Nothing kills the vibe more than waiting for the next patch to load while you remember what keys you were playing. ANYway, it doesn't look like the One has this issue. they seem to be switching patches quickly, if not instantly.
Sinamsis
Sir Ruff wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.


yeah, the patch switching delay on the Modal stuff was kind of mind-boggling and also super irritating. Nothing kills the vibe more than waiting for the next patch to load while you remember what keys you were playing. ANYway, it doesn't look like the One has this issue. they seem to be switching patches quickly, if not instantly.


Yes, that's my point. Very nice, especially when sequencing externally. Abruptly switching patches can create really cool and unexpected results.
Sinamsis
As an aside, I don't know when this place became so negative and judgmental. So a dude wants to sell off a bunch of other gear to fund an expensive poly synth. Sure the rhetoric was a little over the top. But seriously, why does any one care enough to even post that shit? It's really nobody's business.

Why sell a bunch of modular gear to own a One? Dude, I've thought about clearing out my own modular collection. There are infinite possibilities. But it's also not immediate, nor efficient some times. Some of these modern poly synths have very flexible modulation routing that, while not equivalent to the flexibility allowed by modular formats, do come close in many ways. Maybe that's good enough. Maybe three voices are good enough. There are a lot of assumptions being thrown around here. Maybe the guy owns a wall of fucking eurorack, and is selling a small portion. In the end, who the fuck cares?
jmcecil
Sinamsis wrote:
As an aside, I don't know when this place became so negative and judgmental. So a dude wants to sell off a bunch of other gear to fund an expensive poly synth. Sure the rhetoric was a little over the top. But seriously, why does any one care enough to even post that shit? It's really nobody's business.

Why sell a bunch of modular gear to own a One? Dude, I've thought about clearing out my own modular collection. There are infinite possibilities. But it's also not immediate, nor efficient some times. Some of these modern poly synths have very flexible modulation routing that, while not equivalent to the flexibility allowed by modular formats, do come close in many ways. Maybe that's good enough. Maybe three voices are good enough. There are a lot of assumptions being thrown around here. Maybe the guy owns a wall of fucking eurorack, and is selling a small portion. In the end, who the fuck cares?


I think there's just a price point that brings out the bad side of people. It just seems odd around here because of Serge and Buchla etc.. You'd think it would less of a nut kicker. But, I guess the Euro crowd just can't stand people with jobs. MY ASS IS BLEEDING evil
Sir Ruff
Sinamsis wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.


yeah, the patch switching delay on the Modal stuff was kind of mind-boggling and also super irritating. Nothing kills the vibe more than waiting for the next patch to load while you remember what keys you were playing. ANYway, it doesn't look like the One has this issue. they seem to be switching patches quickly, if not instantly.


Yes, that's my point. Very nice, especially when sequencing externally. Abruptly switching patches can create really cool and unexpected results.


This makes me think of the time I was sequencing Juno-1 program changes from a Doepfer 16/3... got some really unique, rhythmic patterns that way (which obvious relied on the Juno switching patches instantly).
solusarpus
in the One demo with suit and tie guy, he mentions that the svf is actually 2 svfs... is that correct? It seems cool, I was a bit surprised. Also, I wonder if they could update the effects at some point to include a pitch to voltage converter so’s to play the synth and/ or vocoder with a voice pitch (or whatever else)
jmcecil
solusarpus wrote:
in the One demo with suit and tie guy, he mentions that the svf is actually 2 svfs... is that correct? It seems cool, I was a bit surprised. Also, I wonder if they could update the effects at some point to include a pitch to voltage converter so’s to play the synth and/ or vocoder with a voice pitch (or whatever else)

Yep, specs say 2 SVF in the single filter bank. Don't know if they can each be set to a different type though. Without having a manual, it sounds like you can not only decide parallel/serial for the Ladder and SVF, you can have serial and parallel paths for the two SVF within itself.
solusarpus
jmcecil wrote:
solusarpus wrote:
in the One demo with suit and tie guy, he mentions that the svf is actually 2 svfs... is that correct? It seems cool, I was a bit surprised. Also, I wonder if they could update the effects at some point to include a pitch to voltage converter so’s to play the synth and/ or vocoder with a voice pitch (or whatever else)

Yep, specs say 2 SVF in the single filter bank. Don't know if they can each be set to a different type though. Without having a manual, it sounds like you can not only decide parallel/serial for the Ladder and SVF, you can have serial and parallel paths for the two SVF within itself.



thanks for the info
EPTC
brokensolderingiron wrote:
I hope people understand they get a Dacia Duster for less money then a MoogOne!
https://auto.ndtvimg.com/car-images/big/renault/duster/renault-duster. jpg?v=25


I hear the drive knob on that thing is pretty good.
musicaespressiva
I'm impressed, of course, as many of you. But I cannot understand why even at this price point they didn't design the instrument to implement led encoders like the Nord Lead 3, the same Moog LPhatty, or - as in a more recent instrument - the yamaha montage.


Being a preset, tri-timbral and high-end instrument, why not making the moog one a proper and fully controllable performance instrument?
maciej83
^^^

Good question. How is reaction of knobs for presets implemented? Is it like Moog Voyager, where you don't know where the knob is and change sounds rapidly? Or the right value comes out smoothly?

This is well implemented with Buchla 200e without led knobs. The knob reaches the correct preset value smoothly, not rapidly and works great.

I wonder how this is made with the One.
Panason
Quote:
led encoders like the Nord Lead 3


This needs to become a legally enforced standard for synths with patch memories!

All those cranky luddites shouting against endless encoders on digitally controlled synths will hopefully soon retire.
Muzone
Sinamsis wrote:
As an aside, I don't know when this place became so negative and judgmental....


....'round about 03 Feb 2018 I reckon nuts
musicaespressiva
Panason wrote:
Quote:
led encoders like the Nord Lead 3


This needs to become a legally enforced standard for synths with patch memories!

All those cranky luddites shouting against endless encoders on digitally controlled synths will hopefully soon retire.



good there's someone else thinking the same thing about synth with patch memories. though I don't see it discussed that often
brokensolderingiron
musicaespressiva wrote:
I'm impressed, of course, as many of you. But I cannot understand why even at this price point they didn't design the instrument to implement led encoders like the Nord Lead 3, the same Moog LPhatty, or - as in a more recent instrument - the yamaha montage.
Being a preset, tri-timbral and high-end instrument, why not making the moog one a proper and fully controllable performance instrument?

You have decent argument there but unfortunately its not part of the "branding mentality" of Moog marketing department.
I.e highend instrument using 1.25usd unsealed switches? then with led rings it would be 10 000USD and so on!
nectarios
Don't be so serious, people are just people and take the piss sometimes...like so..

musicaespressiva
brokensolderingiron wrote:
musicaespressiva wrote:
I'm impressed, of course, as many of you. But I cannot understand why even at this price point they didn't design the instrument to implement led encoders like the Nord Lead 3, the same Moog LPhatty, or - as in a more recent instrument - the yamaha montage.
Being a preset, tri-timbral and high-end instrument, why not making the moog one a proper and fully controllable performance instrument?

You have decent argument there but unfortunately its not part of the "branding mentality" of Moog marketing department.
I.e highend instrument using 1.25usd unsealed switches? then with led rings it would be 10 000USD and so on!


I see, though if I had those kind of budget now for such an instrument, I would pay that 10K for such a feature, because that's what in my opinion I would call a "definitive" instrument.
matthewjuran
Does anybody know where the pieces used to assemble these are sourced from? Moog Music puts them together in North Carolina? I’m curious where the trees are cut down and processed and how the electronics components supply chain works.

I really like the oscillator shape fading on my Slim Phatty and it sounds great through the Cluster Flux, so this thing is intriguing although I can’t afford it on my own for now and I’ll be doing Eurorack first anyway. It doesn’t seem to have a key (not octave) transpose feature?

I didn’t get a chance to ask in the live stream but I would have liked to hear a drone demonstration with the oscillators and filters. Did they do that in a part I didn’t watch?
brokensolderingiron
musicaespressiva wrote:
brokensolderingiron wrote:
musicaespressiva wrote:
I'm impressed, of course, as many of you. But I cannot understand why even at this price point they didn't design the instrument to implement led encoders like the Nord Lead 3, the same Moog LPhatty, or - as in a more recent instrument - the yamaha montage.
Being a preset, tri-timbral and high-end instrument, why not making the moog one a proper and fully controllable performance instrument?

You have decent argument there but unfortunately its not part of the "branding mentality" of Moog marketing department.
I.e highend instrument using 1.25usd unsealed switches? then with led rings it would be 10 000USD and so on!


I see, though if I had those kind of budget now for such an instrument, I would pay that 10K for such a feature, because that's what in my opinion I would call a "definitive" instrument.


Absolutely , anyone in the position who can afford 8k can afford 10k and 12k etc, i bet Moog will do limited flagship edition gold plated for 20k, soon its Schmidt money range!
brokensolderingiron
matthewjuran wrote:
Does anybody know where the pieces used to assemble these are sourced from? Moog Music puts them together in North Carolina? I’m curious where the trees are cut down and processed and how the electronics components supply chain works.

The trees used in the MoogOne is not green planet certified, its rather cut in Amazonas by garimpeiros smuggled out and sold through a chain of shady folks...i'm told.
ToddOMG
It looks great, but with DSI releasing a great Prophet at half the price I just can't imagine I could ever justify spending 8k on something like this.
estin
For the people asking for NL3 lit encoders, did you forget they are endless? Can't fathom someone wanting Moog and plunking down this amount of cash accepting endless encoders. Big difference in expectations between the Moog crowd and the Nord/Waldorf crowd at this price range.
nadafarms
As someone who would consider buying an 8k synth, I think it sounds a bit plasticky and clean when doing percussive half closed env filter stuff like piano type sounds. I’ve always felt the new moogs filters are lacking in some way I can’t fully describe but something like the oscs aren’t hitting the filter hard enough and it’s too clean.

putting the cheapest line of eventide effects as built in doesn’t help. The eventide space sounds pretty bad IMO especially compared to the OTO bam and meris Mercury 7 for example which are in the same price range. I wouldn’t use an eventide space if someone gave it to me for free

Still an exciting synth, I feel like all the new polys ob6, prophet 6, Moog One, rev2 sound too controlled and perfect sounding, deckards is still the only one that gets me excited
Panason
estin wrote:
accepting endless encoders
.... are they going to ruin the analogue warmth ?

Please explain what your problem with endless encoders in a digitally controlled synth is?


waah
euxine
Has anyone heard/ deduced anything about oscillator architecture, such as chips being used, etc?
J3RK
euxine wrote:
Has anyone heard/ deduced anything about oscillator architecture, such as chips being used, etc?


They're new, and actually quite novel. There's a patent doc floating around for them. I don't have the link here at the moment.
chipaudette
Panason wrote:
estin wrote:
accepting endless encoders
.... are they going to ruin the analogue warmth ?

Please explain what your problem with endless encoders in a digitally controlled synth is?


waah


I dislike endless encoders. Nothing to do with sound, everything to do with having hard stops at either end. Gives good tactile feedback.

Also, poorly executed encoders usually exhibit stepping of values. Worse, poorly executed encoders often end up degrading into jittery behavior. Jumpy values are no fun! IMO, even though a potentiometer is being digitized to command a digital synth, a potentiometer gives me a more satisfying, smooth experience and does so more consistently into the lifetime of a synth.

Another overlooked benefit of potentiometers (once turned until they're active) is that they naturally give visual feedback about where you are in their range. You know, the little white line (or whatever) on the knob? It's a built-in, no-power-required visual indication of where you are! With endless encoders, you need to look at a display screen to see where you are in the range. Boooo!


To be fair to encoders, a well-implemented, high quality rotary encoder with an LED ring does address most of my criticisms...but an endless encoder still lacks the nice tactile feedback of the hard stops.

So, a stepless, high-quality encoder with an LED ring that could also provide haptic feedback akin to a hard stop???...now *that* would be nifty.

Chip
Panason
There must have been some bad encoders on some early digital synths that gave them bad rep.

The encoders on my Nord 3 are rock solid and work perfectly to this day without any jitter. I read around before buying it and nobody had a problem with them.
The LED rings are the perfect synth interface as you can see at a glance all of the synth's settings (and in the dark) and they will respond to external modulation so you can see what parameters are being modulated with MIDI...

The encoders on my Behringer BCR2000 ( from Behringer's REAL shitty era) are a different story...

Potentiometers fail with time too...
Dave Peck
I have worked on many projects that have endless encoders with LED rings as well as projects that use standard analog potentiometers with end stops. Some of these projects were massive mixing consoles that used several thousand of these controls per system.

It is certainly possible to use encoders that are reliable, non-jittery, very high resolution with no perceivable stepping, and just like analog pots, you can get them with either low damping (turns very easily and feels "loose") or high damping (harder to turn, feels more "solid"). The amount of damping has nothing to do with the quality or reliability or the resolution. And good encoders can be as cheap or even cheaper than decent analog pots.

But - LED rings can get expensive to implement. Not only do you need maybe 24 LEDs per encoder, there is also the cost of implementing some kind of 'light pipe' (usually a custom molded clear plastic part) to convey the light from each LED up to the control surface, while 'masking' the light from each LED so it doesn't 'bleed' into adjacent LEDs and partially light up an LED that isn't actually 'on'. And of course there's the expense of putting all of those extra LED parts on the PCB and then mechanically installing the light pipe. It adds up.

For a knob-laden synth with patch memory, I personally prefer damped encoders with LED rings rather than standard potentiometers with no LED indicators, so you can instantly see the parameter settings / knob positions the moment you load a new patch, just by looking at the knobs on the panel. But I understand the math behind why a manufacturer may choose not to do this, especially since some people want this and some people don't.

jmcecil
as an aside on the knob topic, I asked in one of the live streams if they had some takeover implementation instead of value jumping when you touch a knob after a patch change. The answer is that there are multiple modes including a relative mode. So, the most glaring problem of fixed rotation knobs was handled correctly (assuming it works). No intention to discount those that want endless encoders. Just that the Moog One doesn't have them, but they evidently did the right thing with what they did put on there.
matthewjuran
New livestream in 20 minutes:
mojopin
Sinamsis wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.


yeah, the patch switching delay on the Modal stuff was kind of mind-boggling and also super irritating. Nothing kills the vibe more than waiting for the next patch to load while you remember what keys you were playing. ANYway, it doesn't look like the One has this issue. they seem to be switching patches quickly, if not instantly.


Yes, that's my point. Very nice, especially when sequencing externally. Abruptly switching patches can create really cool and unexpected results.

interesting..this is where this could start to outperform a computer..with analog to boot of course. ???
miminashi
Panason wrote:
Please explain what your problem with endless encoders in a digitally controlled synth is?

The rotary encoders typically used on synths are fairly low resolution, something like 24 pulses per rotation. So, multiple rotations are required to span the range of even a 7-bit parameter value, unless some kind of 'acceleration' is used, which kills a lot of the immediacy when adjusting parameters. I think Moog uses 14-bit values, which exacerbates the issue.

I personally don't mind encoders for data entry (the weighted encoder wheels on Eventide rack units are pretty decent, or the data knob on the good old ATC-1), but I find them to be a poor replacement for dedicated controls compared to nice potentiometers. Acceleration might be part of the problem. Lack of feedback doesn't help either, and even a lighted encoder ring is a pretty rough indicator of value.

There are awesome high-resolution rotary encoders used for industrial purposes (e.g., position/rotation feedback for stepper motors), but they are too bulky and expensive to put behind a synth panel.
brokensolderingiron
Sinamsis wrote:
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.

3secs sounds not Bentley, there must be something else to it, just because LFO and EG analog should not result in 3 sec delay, the analog should switch pretty quick. If long release used in prior sound and new sound uses short CPU could send a 1ms CV pulse to null release period then new CV for the new sound.
Sinamsis
brokensolderingiron wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I'd mention that my one experience with a poly synth that had analog LFOs and envelopes was the Modal 008. There was a 3 second pause or so when switching patches. DSI synths that utilize digital LFOs and envelopes switch presets with almost zero latency. I know what I prefer.

3secs sounds not Bentley, there must be something else to it, just because LFO and EG analog should not result in 3 sec delay, the analog should switch pretty quick. If long release used in prior sound and new sound uses short CPU could send a 1ms CV pulse to null release period then new CV for the new sound.


Yeah, that was the excuse I received. I suspect there's more to it than that. The 002 utilizes digital envelopes and LFOs and still takes probably somewhere between 1-2 seconds to switch presets. Not as bad as the 008 but not instantaneous. The 008 though I assume uses ADCs for the analog LFOs/envelopes, and then each preset needs a little longer to recall the specific settings and routings.
brokensolderingiron
Sinamsis wrote:

Yeah, that was the excuse I received. I suspect there's more to it than that. The 002 utilizes digital envelopes and LFOs and still takes probably somewhere between 1-2 seconds to switch presets. Not as bad as the 008 but not instantaneous. The 008 though I assume uses ADCs for the analog LFOs/envelopes, and then each preset needs a little longer to recall the specific settings and routings.

Not surprised, but there shouldnt be any difference between them , my old ESQ1 switches sounds instantly, its a bog slow 6809 that does "everything". 002 has several MCUs (AT XMEGA i recall ) much more faster and power ful "per voice". I dont recall a JP8 or P5 is that slow, rather abruptly switches sound.

But yeah, in this video one can see the 3sec delay, i can also hear that the sounds with long release is also abruptly shortened after the delay, no soft fade, making sorta "click" sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvJw-rKbaU

Well, you have to sell it and buy a Moog One i suppose! eek!....or a REV2......or in worst case a ESQ1! lol
Sinamsis
brokensolderingiron wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:

Yeah, that was the excuse I received. I suspect there's more to it than that. The 002 utilizes digital envelopes and LFOs and still takes probably somewhere between 1-2 seconds to switch presets. Not as bad as the 008 but not instantaneous. The 008 though I assume uses ADCs for the analog LFOs/envelopes, and then each preset needs a little longer to recall the specific settings and routings.

Not surprised, but there shouldnt be any difference between them , my old ESQ1 switches sounds instantly, its a bog slow 6809 that does "everything". 002 has several MCUs (AT XMEGA i recall ) much more faster and power ful "per voice". I dont recall a JP8 or P5 is that slow, rather abruptly switches sound.

But yeah, in this video one can see the 3sec delay, i can also hear that the sounds with long release is also abruptly shortened after the delay, no soft fade, making sorta "click" sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvJw-rKbaU

Well, you have to sell it and buy a Moog One i suppose! eek!....or a REV2......or in worst case a ESQ1! lol


Ha, that's my video. And the 008 is long gone. Got tired of waiting for updates.... ha then I couldn't resist and bought an 002.... still waiting to see an update on the sequencer/animator. I have owned a Rev 2, but couldn't justify keeping it and my Prophet 12. Believe it or not I think I liked the P '08 better than the Rev 2, I think they tamed the filter more than I'd like.

But I digress. The original point was that it looks like there's little latency in the switching presents in the One, which is awesome for several reasons. But in particular I like sequencing program changes, and honestly I enjoy the glitchy sounds you might get from bouncing between them. Ha with the Modals you just get silence.
musicaespressiva
Dave Peck wrote:
I have worked on many projects that have endless encoders with LED rings as well as projects that use standard analog potentiometers with end stops. Some of these projects were massive mixing consoles that used several thousand of these controls per system.

It is certainly possible to use encoders that are reliable, non-jittery, very high resolution with no perceivable stepping, and just like analog pots, you can get them with either low damping (turns very easily and feels "loose") or high damping (harder to turn, feels more "solid"). The amount of damping has nothing to do with the quality or reliability or the resolution. And good encoders can be as cheap or even cheaper than decent analog pots.

But - LED rings can get expensive to implement. Not only do you need maybe 24 LEDs per encoder, there is also the cost of implementing some kind of 'light pipe' (usually a custom molded clear plastic part) to convey the light from each LED up to the control surface, while 'masking' the light from each LED so it doesn't 'bleed' into adjacent LEDs and partially light up an LED that isn't actually 'on'. And of course there's the expense of putting all of those extra LED parts on the PCB and then mechanically installing the light pipe. It adds up.

For a knob-laden synth with patch memory, I personally prefer damped encoders with LED rings rather than standard potentiometers with no LED indicators, so you can instantly see the parameter settings / knob positions the moment you load a new patch, just by looking at the knobs on the panel. But I understand the math behind why a manufacturer may choose not to do this, especially since some people want this and some people don't.



Interesting perspective. Would you say that such a feature would raise up the final price of more than 2K?
Dave Peck
musicaespressiva wrote:


Interesting perspective. Would you say that such a feature would raise up the final price of more than 2K?


That depends on the number of knob locations on the product, and to some extent, the total quantity of knob locations for the entire production life of the product (because of the hefty one-time tooling cost to make the injection molding tool for the custom light pipes, which has to be amortized across the total number of parts purchased over the entire production life span. So those parts are expensive if you only make a small quantity but they become quite cheap if you make a huge quantity).

Ballpark would be maybe an increase in manufacturing cost (not retail price) of two to three dollars per knob location on something like the Moog One, compared to just a decent analog pot with no LED ring or light pipe.

But of course you also have to account for the differences in the rest of the circuitry too, since the synth deals with the signals from analog pots differently from the way it handles the signals from rotary encoders.
dubonaire
matthewjuran wrote:
New livestream in 20 minutes:


Man there are some really beautiful sounds in that video. I had little more than a sideline interest in this but now I'm seriously considering it might be my first Moog and I may even sell gear to buy it. The pads at around 38 minutes and also from around 43 are gorgeous. I can envisage spending hours just playing pads for the sheer pleasure of it. Massive, massive basses as well. Huge sound. And I don't really get the criticism of using Eventide effects either.

I don't think I've heard another recent synth that sounds like it. It's probably going to be hard to find a way for it to sit in a mix (that's something I like about the Rev2 actually, it sits in the mix well). I think this Moog is going to be a classic though.

He gives suit and tie guy some raps as well which is nice.
musicaespressiva
Dave Peck wrote:
musicaespressiva wrote:


Interesting perspective. Would you say that such a feature would raise up the final price of more than 2K?


That depends on the number of knob locations on the product, and to some extent, the total quantity of knob locations for the entire production life of the product (because of the hefty one-time tooling cost to make the injection molding tool for the custom light pipes, which has to be amortized across the total number of parts purchased over the entire production life span. So those parts are expensive if you only make a small quantity but they become quite cheap if you make a huge quantity).

Ballpark would be maybe an increase in manufacturing cost (not retail price) of two to three dollars per knob location on something like the Moog One, compared to just a decent analog pot with no LED ring or light pipe.

But of course you also have to account for the differences in the rest of the circuitry too, since the synth deals with the signals from analog pots differently from the way it handles the signals from rotary encoders.


clear, thank you
Xmit
Quote:
putting the cheapest line of eventide effects as built in doesn’t help. The eventide space sounds pretty bad IMO especially compared to the OTO bam and meris Mercury 7 for example which are in the same price range. I wouldn’t use an eventide space if someone gave it to me for free


this is just trolling, right ? I mean, we all have personal taste etc etc... but I've not heard anyone describe the Eventide stuff as bad before. A properly programmed SPACE is pretty much as good or better than reverb I've ever used - ok not Bricasti level, but hell they're not going to throw a Bricasti or similar in for £6k/ £8k are they ?
matthewjuran
dubonaire wrote:
matthewjuran wrote:
New livestream in 20 minutes:


Man there are some really beautiful sounds in that video. I had little more than a sideline interest in this but now I'm seriously considering it might be my first Moog and I may even sell gear to buy it. The pads at around 38 minutes and also from around 43 are gorgeous. I can envisage spending hours just playing pads for the sheer pleasure of it. Massive, massive basses as well. Huge sound. And I don't really get the criticism of using Eventide effects either.

I don't think I've heard another recent synth that sounds like it. It's probably going to be hard to find a way for it to sit in a mix (that's something I like about the Rev2 actually, it sits in the mix well). I think this Moog is going to be a classic though.

He gives suit and tie guy some raps as well which is nice.

52:30 is good too although the sequence doesn't show multiple voices: https://youtu.be/SNLgEKRJl_w?t=3145
Panason
Sounds pretty fucking good- but still a rip-off, IMO.

Livestream sound is terrible and everything is swimming in reverb..

Moog engineer pronounces vibrato as "vaibrato".... mentions it is "real analog, not make-belief" and claims he blew a monitor speaker with the One... meh
rdavila
They say the Oscillators are better than the Voyager. I wonder how?
matthewjuran
Next livestream in 25 minutes:
ludotex
rdavila wrote:
They say the Oscillators are better than the Voyager. I wonder how?

Behringer makes them hihi
SynthBaron
I think this is probably going to be the last great analog polysynth, but there's no way I'm buying it other than as a $300 official Moog VSTi version.
Exhale
Anyway the price is too high.
5000$ for 16 voice version would be right.
Just 2000$ on top of used Andromeda price for brand and other whistles.

The last ? I'm not sure.

Panason wrote:
Moog engineer pronounces vibrato as "vaibrato"....


It's VIBErato )
KaOsphere
Awesome piece of gear for sure, way out of my budget ! Will watch your videos when you'll have it ! smile
cscairney
I really can’t understand all the upset in this thread over the cost. It seems clear that what it offers is worth the money.

The ONE sounds incredible as far as I can hear.

I certainly can’t afford it but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist and it certainly isn’t a good reason to criticize it,

It will be exciting to see how updates will improve the instrument based on user experience.

Whenever a piece of gear comes out that sounds great and that is beyond my means I find it inspiring to try to attain similar sonic results with what I have.
Panason
Quote:
I really can’t understand all the upset in this thread over the cost. It seems clear that what it offers is worth it.

Well, "worth it" is highly subjective and the upset is that analog polysynths are getting more expensive... at least the Moog One makes the OB6 seem cheap! Dead Banana

For the price I would have expected to see quite a lot more synthesis abilities especially on the oscillator front).
calaveras
I'm possibly a customer for this. I have a big birthday coming up (that ends in 0) and I am gainfully employed and all that.
However, I have recently tested out both the Grandmother and Sub37. Despite both of those synths having terrible names, I found one of them to sound excellent, and the other to sound like shit.
So is the One going in the direction of Grandmother, big and fat. Or is it nasal and grainy like the 37?

Not like there is a lack of overpriced synths. The new Waldorf is intriguing, and pricey! But I am sure it is a little bit more flexible sound wise.
Dave Peck
dubonaire wrote:


Man there are some really beautiful sounds in that video. I had little more than a sideline interest in this but now I'm seriously considering it might be my first Moog and I may even sell gear to buy it. The pads at around 38 minutes and also from around 43 are gorgeous. I can envisage spending hours just playing pads for the sheer pleasure of it. Massive, massive basses as well. Huge sound. And I don't really get the criticism of using Eventide effects either.

I don't think I've heard another recent synth that sounds like it. It's probably going to be hard to find a way for it to sit in a mix (that's something I like about the Rev2 actually, it sits in the mix well). I think this Moog is going to be a classic though.

He gives suit and tie guy some raps as well which is nice.


Agreed. While I don't think I can justify buying one because I do already have other big-ass polysynths that can cover similar sonic territory, yeah, it's certainly capable of some massive and gorgeous sounds. These demos are getting better.

I also agree about getting synths like this one to 'sit in the mix'. Huge-sounding polysynths like this can tend to have a 'bull in a china shop' effect when you add it to the mix. They just kinda knock all of the other tracks out of the way and take over. But I kinda like that sometimes. Subtlety is sometimes overrated. This is fun!
brokensolderingiron
cscairney wrote:
I really can’t understand all the upset in this thread over the cost.

Noone is upset, its you and others who reasons like that who perceive "monetary facts" relative to other costs as expensive/upsetting, just start think the word "expensive" and you'l se you change mind, compare it to a new 1986 Fairlight CMI III then MoogOne utterly cheap, thats all to it. Its in the eye of the beholder.
Quote:
It seems clear that what it offers is worth the money.

Lots of folks thinks the opposite, it dont deliver because of the money.
Quote:
The ONE sounds incredible as far as I can hear.

Lots of folks think it sounds decent to lame, the opinions are broad.
Quote:
I certainly can’t afford it but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist and it certainly isn’t a good reason to criticize it,

I havent seen a single individual saying it should not exist, yet folks have the right to have an opinion. Synths is just a commodity thing as anything else, but people have a tendency to "feel" with their decisison of purchase whos based on "self bias" then they cant tolerate anything said about their decisions made. Its in academia called "purchase-by-self- illusion".
Quote:
It will be exciting to see how updates will improve the instrument based on user experience.

Me to, hopefully there will be truck loads of features at ZERO cost.
Quote:
Whenever a piece of gear comes out that sounds great and that is beyond my means I find it inspiring to try to attain similar sonic results with what I have.

Good approach!
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
Moog engineer pronounces vibrato as "vaibrato".... mentions it is "real analog, not make-belief" and claims he blew a monitor speaker with the One... meh


Moog engineer is not Moog engineer but preset designer Kevin Lamb.
cscairney
brokensolderingiron wrote:
cscairney wrote:
I really can’t understand all the upset in this thread over the cost.

Noone is upset, its you and others who reasons like that who perceive "monetary facts" relative to other costs as expensive/upsetting, just start think the word "expensive" and you'l se you change mind, compare it to a new 1986 Fairlight CMI III then MoogOne utterly cheap, thats all to it. Its in the eye of the beholder.
Quote:
It seems clear that what it offers is worth the money.

Lots of folks thinks the opposite, it dont deliver because of the money.
Quote:
The ONE sounds incredible as far as I can hear.

Lots of folks think it sounds decent to lame, the opinions are broad.
Quote:
I certainly can’t afford it but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist and it certainly isn’t a good reason to criticize it,

I havent seen a single individual saying it should not exist, yet folks have the right to have an opinion. Synths is just a commodity thing as anything else, but people have a tendency to "feel" with their decisison of purchase whos based on "self bias" then they cant tolerate anything said about their decisions made. Its in academia called "purchase-by-self- illusion".
Quote:
It will be exciting to see how updates will improve the instrument based on user experience.

Me to, hopefully there will be truck loads of features at ZERO cost.
Quote:
Whenever a piece of gear comes out that sounds great and that is beyond my means I find it inspiring to try to attain similar sonic results with what I have.

Good approach!


I guess my comments weren't well considered. You make some good points.
nectarios
Exhale wrote:
Anyway the price is too high.
5000$ for 16 voice version would be right.
Just 2000$ on top of used Andromeda price for brand and other whistles.

The last ? I'm not sure.

Panason wrote:
Moog engineer pronounces vibrato as "vaibrato"....


It's VIBErato )

There are used A6s for 2000€. They don't pop up often but I have seen them and I have a friend who is selling one at that price. No that is not me smile

Of course bringing the A6 into for comparison is valid in terms of sonic abilities and to *some* extent, depth of programming. But there is the main concern of reliability as you might be buying a unit from the problematic batch and you'll be having a brilliant sounding, ticking time bomb in your hands.

After seeing more demos of this, I think this is a great synth. Ok it does not sound as good as a Memorymoog...but what does anyway?
It is what it is, it sounds great, the effects on it are great, the programming is the best I've seen on a poly of this magnitude and it costs more than twice the money I would be willing to spend on something that sounds like it does.
But it still is a great synth.
Sinamsis
nectarios wrote:
Exhale wrote:
Anyway the price is too high.
5000$ for 16 voice version would be right.
Just 2000$ on top of used Andromeda price for brand and other whistles.

The last ? I'm not sure.

Panason wrote:
Moog engineer pronounces vibrato as "vaibrato"....


It's VIBErato )

There are used A6s for 2000€. They don't pop up often but I have seen them and I have a friend who is selling one at that price. No that is not me smile

Of course bringing the A6 into for comparison is valid in terms of sonic abilities and to *some* extent, depth of programming. But there is the main concern of reliability as you might be buying a unit from the problematic batch and you'll be having a brilliant sounding, ticking time bomb in your hands.

After seeing more demos of this, I think this is a great synth. Ok it does not sound as good as a Memorymoog...but what does anyway?
It is what it is, it sounds great, the effects on it are great, the programming is the best I've seen on a poly of this magnitude and it costs more than twice the money I would be willing to spend on something that sounds like it does.
But it still is a great synth.



You nailed it. To me it’s as (or really more) powerful than my A6 and should be a safer bet in terms of stability. In fact I know it will be because I’m getting it from Sweetwater. Am I thrilled about the price tag? No. But I’m going to pay it. $6k would’ve been a much easier pill for me to swallow. I paid $3k for my Andromeda (a little much but was the going rate then, and that included a flight case and shipping). I paid $5k for my 008 which I regretted. Haha. In fact getting rid of that helped fund the A6. The truth is comparing the cost of other gear to this isn’t really fair or valid other than getting a grasp of what the general market is for these sorts of things. This is however a fairly unique synth in terms of feature set. And regarding sound I hear quite a few similarities to the Andromeda. However, the envelopes sound really nice on the One. They’re not bad on the A6. But for me it definitely shines for pads over more percussive stuff.
Exhale
Units from the problematic batch experiencing problems from the day one. I had time testing two A6 that may belong to that era.
One had 9 faulty voices, another 15 wink
And my assumption that this were not the voices but motherboard.

And mostly if your A6 works for say 2 years in a room temperature and not showing any bad signs, everything should be okay.
Overall this is surely not the instrument for touring.
You probably won't see it on stage.

Surely I agree that the level of craftmanship on a Moog One is significantly higher. No doubt.
The case, power supply, PCB tracing, pots, parts ... etc ...
The Moog just can't put out that finicky stuff as Alesis/Numark did. )
ludotex
Good to see that synth marketing videos havent changed much either.


Btw that guy with the glasses is ripping it! eek!
nectarios
Exhale wrote:
Units from the problematic batch experiencing problems from the day one. I had time testing two A6 that may belong to that era.
One had 9 faulty voices, another 15 wink
And my assumption that this were not the voices but motherboard.

And mostly if your A6 works for say 2 years in a room temperature and not showing any bad signs, everything should be okay.
Overall this is surely not the instrument for touring.
You probably won't see it on stage.

Surely I agree that the level of craftmanship on a Moog One is significantly higher. No doubt.
The case, power supply, PCB tracing, pots, parts ... etc ...
The Moog just can't put out that finicky stuff as Alesis/Numark did. )


Yeah, I have had mine for almost two years. Did the voice test when I went to buy it, all 16 on rotation, loud and in tune. So I do think I have one that will last as long as any other synth does. But I bought the thing only cause I had a chance to test it before hand. For a lot of people, this is not an option, hence my post.

Then again these are the kind of synths where you need to run tests on, either by your self, or by video if the seller is too far away.

With regards to Moog not putting out finicky stuff as Alesis...I've only had my old M1 actives and the Andromeda, which is not enough products from them but I've had 0 problems with them.

This is not something I can say for the Moog gear I've owned and recently I had a play with the Grandmother...that power connection at the back is what i'd call finicky, I find it kinda insulting as the thing costs a grand and its no wonder some people already have problems.
Sinamsis
I think there's a difference in quality between Moog's more "entry level" products and their "flagships." The Voyager (I know I've said this multiple times now) had a great feel to it, and was very sturdy.
Exhale
Definately agree!

Had Slim Phatty - a bit crappy regarding build quality and feel.
Now have Voyager Electric Blue - just stellar !

Different leagues.
Sir Ruff
ludotex wrote:
Btw that guy with the glasses is ripping it! eek!


applause applause applause amazing.

Definitely some faces that belong in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uQra_Koyzg
nadafarms
Sinamsis wrote:
I think there's a difference in quality between Moog's more "entry level" products and their "flagships." The Voyager (I know I've said this multiple times now) had a great feel to it, and was very sturdy.


Voyager only had 3 oscillators and plenty of tuning/calibration issues, I had one that drifted badly and was relieved to sell it.

Had a slim phatty with tuning issues, dealing with those was way worse that a nicely calibrated vintage synth like ms-20, sem, sh-101, you name it... honestly not gonna be fun sending a Moog One with UPS to the factory and back!
jmcecil
ludotex wrote:
Good to see that synth marketing videos havent changed much either.

Btw that guy with the glasses is ripping it! eek!


The best statement is "I reach for the same knob and it will do something completely different than it did yesterday"... LOL, not a feature most people look forward to. Dead Banana

But really the One is an updated Andromeda with a usable interface. I don't see that as a bad thing. Too bad it took so long to get here.
Sinamsis
nadafarms wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
I think there's a difference in quality between Moog's more "entry level" products and their "flagships." The Voyager (I know I've said this multiple times now) had a great feel to it, and was very sturdy.


Voyager only had 3 oscillators and plenty of tuning/calibration issues, I had one that drifted badly and was relieved to sell it.

Had a slim phatty with tuning issues, dealing with those was way worse that a nicely calibrated vintage synth like ms-20, sem, sh-101, you name it... honestly not gonna be fun sending a Moog One with UPS to the factory and back!


That’s a bummer. Personally, I never had a problem with either Voyager I have previously owned. It’s definitely a risk you take with any new product. Fortunately, purchasing from Sweetwater gives some security as they’ll cover shipping. Further, I don’t understand what’s so difficult about shipping. You keep the original box and external shipping box. Drop it back in. Sweetwater sends you a shipping label. You drop it off or ask for pickup. Seems easy to me. The Thunderbolt port on my Antelope Goliath shit the bed in a month or so of owning it. Not only did they pay for me to ship it back, they overnighted me a replacement unit before I even returned it so I didn’t have any down time. It might not be as easy with the One as supplies are likely more limited. But I’m good with it. Now I might be more nervous ordering abroad but I’m sure they have service centers outside of Asheville.
Panason
I spent some time with a Grandma at a shop recently. It should cost no more than 500 bucks IMO. It feels like a regression back to the early 80s or even late 70s.
It's a rip-off... IMO. Nothing special about the sound either. You can get monosynths that completely obliterate it at around that price point. (or less...)
Nightly Closures
Not sure how that has anything to do with a Moog One. But hey, don’t let me stop your quest to break the record for posts in one year.
Epicentre
Panason wrote:
I spent some time with a Grandma at a shop recently. It should cost no more than 500 bucks IMO. It feels like a regression back to the early 80s or even late 70s.
It's a rip-off... IMO. Nothing special about the sound either. You can get monosynths that completely obliterate it at around that price point. (or less...)


Why don’t you take your expertise and business knowledge to the next level and start your own synth company then? Why waste your time here since you can deduce so much from a couple hours at your local music shop?
Panason
Because I like to waste time here looking at dick pics and posts about the Andromeda, so as to avoid getting tinnitus w00t
Sir Ruff
Epicentre wrote:
Panason wrote:
I spent some time with a Grandma at a shop recently. It should cost no more than 500 bucks IMO. It feels like a regression back to the early 80s or even late 70s.
It's a rip-off... IMO. Nothing special about the sound either. You can get monosynths that completely obliterate it at around that price point. (or less...)


Why waste your time here since you can deduce so much from a couple hours at your local music shop?


Conveniently there's an ignore button for folks like them thumbs up
brokensolderingiron
Dont know if posted already, for whatever info its wort or not
anyhow.
https://cdm.link/2018/10/moog-one-polysynth-details/
dubonaire
Not sure if this one with S&T Guy has been posted but it's great, and the drone piece at the end is quite special

percussion boy
Now that more long demos are getting out there, with more different kinds of sounds, I’m converted. Depending what you do with all the osc and filter options, the synth can have a lot of different flavors.

The price is unreachable for me, but it’s fair. If you look back to the ‘70s and ‘80s and adjust for inflation, analog polys built to a professional standard were really expensive then too—particularly the ones made by small U.S. companies like Moog, Sequential, and Oberheim.

I would be curious to see what pricing could be on a 6-8 voice module with the full synth engine, similar to what DSI did with the OB6 and P6 desktops.

EDIT: Video embedding using the VIDEO button isn’t working for me, so here are some relevant Youtube URLS:

https://youtu.be/HqBTDiNdFmg

https://youtu.be/ond-NgA2xF8
dubonaire
percussion boy wrote:


EDIT: Video embedding using the VIDEO button isn’t working for me, so here are some relevant Youtube URLS:

https://youtu.be/HqBTDiNdFmg

https://youtu.be/ond-NgA2xF8


You need to remove the 's' after http.



percussion boy
dubonaire wrote:
You need to remove the 's' after http.


Ah! That was the one variation I didn’t try...thanks!
desdinova
This isn't quite an Xpander but I'm certainly tempted by the eight voice as my go-to poly. Shocking to me it's got a line lump, I wish they'd figure out whatever the hell is holding them back. Minor niggle I know, but at the price there's simply no excuse.
SynthBaron
desdinova wrote:
Shocking to me it's got a line lump, I wish they'd figure out whatever the hell is holding them back. Minor niggle I know, but at the price there's simply no excuse.


I'd much rather have an external switching power supply than an internal one causing even minimal interference. And they look like they're using a robust XLR-style DC power connector. It also solves any issues of dissipating heat generated from it being inside.
Sir Ruff
SynthBaron wrote:
desdinova wrote:
Shocking to me it's got a line lump, I wish they'd figure out whatever the hell is holding them back. Minor niggle I know, but at the price there's simply no excuse.


I'd much rather have an external switching power supply than an internal one causing even minimal interference. And they look like they're using a robust XLR-style DC power connector. It also solves any issues of dissipating heat generated from it being inside.


yeah, it's a solid XLR connection. This wasn't a big deal on the Minimoog reissue, and I can't see how it would be an issue here. It's not a wallwart, and I'd rather have less weight in the keyboard anyway.
Gizmo
Been watching the videos and digesting the comments here (except retching over a few) with the following conclusions. Strictly for my situation and my purposes.

The Moog One is more capable than the entirety of my mid-sized modular built-up over a decade for about as much money. And to say further -- anathema maybe at MW -- while I love the modular, I have a growing frustration with patch cords and never being able to accurately recover a cherished sound, or duplicate an essential one for dubs.

Yes the Moog One is a confirmed East Coast synth with a conventional signal path meant primarily for playing. This is not a disqualifier for me. Playing is the essence of my "music" anyway. But would it take another $12-15,000, or who knows how much, to add to my MU system the components and functions of the Moog One? The sequencer capabilities alone could run to five figures in MU. I do not currently have a discrete sequencer in my system, or for that matter a voltage-generating keyboard.

The Moog One outside-world interfacing is generous and seems fully configurable. I can envision decent, bi-directional integration with my modular and DAW. I have no problem with menus if it means I can get a sound back, exactly, at a future time, and re-use portions of configurations in other contexts, where I may have invested considerable time. But equally important, the UI makes sense to me -- menus integrate intelligently with the panel controls, which themselves provide for ample real-time performance modification.

So, somewhat of a surprise, the Moog One looks like a winner to me. I will take my time about it, but enough has come together for me to start down the path of serious investigation.

FWIW-
(1) Do we know, the 8-voice model shipping today may never be upgradeable?
(2) Do we suppose Moog will charge for software upgrades and enhancements at some point?
(3) Is the wood housing made of ash as a tribute to Asheville?
Sinamsis
Gizmo
As it stands Moog says there is no upgrade pathway. BUT that doesn’t mean that this is not technically possible. I think I posted a quote a few pages back that suggests that the 8 voice version is expandable. That said it wasn’t from Moog. I wouldn’t bank on an upgrade pathway. That said by the time you’ve decided to commit Moog might have clarified this/changed their position.

I would suspect that they won’t charge for “upgrades” in software. Not sure what you mean though. New effects? They’re already working on some that won’t be in the initial release as they weren’t polished enough. So yeah I don’t imagine that they’ll charge for software stuff.
EPTC
Haven't been in this thread for a few days but today I was wondering about the oscillators. Does anyone know if this sonically follows any path from Moog (Grandmother is 921 based, Sub 37 was touted as their new VCO sound, Model D is 921, etc)

Would love to hear that this is 921 based OSCs, but remember Amos mentioning the filters were based on the Voyager, so maybe this is Phatty-era OSC design in some places. Or maybe Sub 37, as they've been working for years with that architecture.

Of course, a bunch of poly 901s would be a lot of fun, but doubt it. But something with the sharp sizzle of a Model D 921's would be great, now that they know how to get that created in modern builds.
dubonaire
Sinamsis wrote:
Gizmo
As it stands Moog says there is no upgrade pathway. BUT that doesn’t mean that this is not technically possible. I think I posted a quote a few pages back that suggests that the 8 voice version is expandable. That said it wasn’t from Moog. I wouldn’t bank on an upgrade pathway. That said by the time you’ve decided to commit Moog might have clarified this/changed their position.

I would suspect that they won’t charge for “upgrades” in software. Not sure what you mean though. New effects? They’re already working on some that won’t be in the initial release as they weren’t polished enough. So yeah I don’t imagine that they’ll charge for software stuff.


This is what Amos Gaynes said in a recent Reddit AMA regarding upgrading from 8 to 16 voice (I think they'll sell quite a few more if they can make that happen).

Quote:
Right now, we have no plans to offer such an upgrade -- but we are listening to feedback on this question. Would you be interested in such an upgrade if it meant that it would cost more (8-voice plus upgrade) than just buying a 16-voice? It would also require shipping the unit back to the Moog factory.


Gizmo, you know I've been thinking the same thing, although I will always keep my modular. I may sell all my other desktop synths though.

The drone stuff that Amos and STG did was inspiring, and I feel I've heard pad sounds I haven't really heard anywhere else, and the pads I was looking for.

I don't know how many Cocteau Twins fans are reading this but I think I could spend days in 'Victorialand' bliss with this synth.

The patch and modulation interface is really well designed. I particularly like the ease with which you can customise the modulation from the source to each destination really quickly. They have put some deep user-interface thought into this.

I'm somewhat frothing over this thing, which I don't normally do. Of course, they are sales events, but I really do get the impression that the people who designed the presets on the Moog One genuinely love it, Suit and Tie Guy said it's the deepest synth he's ever used, and I also get the feeling that Amos Gaynes is genuinely proud. Which is a cool thing, even if you have no intention of ever getting it.
dubonaire
EPTC wrote:
Haven't been in this thread for a few days but today I was wondering about the oscillators. Does anyone know if this sonically follows any path from Moog (Grandmother is 921 based, Sub 37 was touted as their new VCO sound, Model D is 921, etc)

Would love to hear that this is 921 based OSCs, but remember Amos mentioning the filters were based on the Voyager, so maybe this is Phatty-era OSC design in some places. Or maybe Sub 37, as they've been working for years with that architecture.

Of course, a bunch of poly 901s would be a lot of fun, but doubt it. But something with the sharp sizzle of a Model D 921's would be great, now that they know how to get that created in modern builds.


I'm not sure it really matters if it sounds good, again this is what Amos Gaynes said on the Reddit AMA:

Quote:
Regarding the oscillators, the Moog One was envisioned as a flagship platform for new technology, and we had built up a number of new oscillator ideas that we'd been just waiting to explore. This was the perfect opportunity to bring those ideas to life.
euxine
I unexpectedly had a chance to play a prototype this weekend, as it was on display in London.

The venue was crazy loud so really hard to hear fine detail, but I thought the UI (particularly mod UI) was really special. This, combined with the huge mod breadth (sources/destinations/CV I/O/etc), the 3 part timbrality, and the complimentary set of filters really made for something compelling.

My impression is that if you are happy with subtractive architecture (and all the ways you can bend it), then this synth feels like the end of the road. It'll never take us to crazy sonic worlds, but I don't think it needs to - we've got max, kyma, even some lovely ipad apps and vsts for that. But for what it is, and the incredible ease of setting up modulation, I think it'll be hard to beat.

I also think the winning features are gonna be the ones that we're not talking about much. Variations on presets(!), the ability to write notes(!!), the ability to assign insert points(!!!), the possibility of modulating effect parameters, the very well-functioning x/y pad, etc. etc.

Also as was mentioned before, the STG video showed that it can 'do subtle'.
It'd never replace a modular for me (or a good granular app), but I think it could be my last 'traditional' synth.
Panason
If it had a built-in power supply it would probably need a loud fan to keep it cool....

Quote:
I have a growing frustration with patch cords and never being able to accurately recover a cherished sound, or duplicate an essential one for dubs.


hihi Precisely why I could never get into modular even if it cost less than synths with digital control - which it most certainly does not. Compared to modular setups the M1 is crazy value for money ! lol - which brings me to the other point: its fun watching people here talk themselves and each other into this! Guinness ftw!

Quote:
It'll never take us to crazy sonic worlds
Moog stays firmly in 70's sonic territory, ELP over and over.

That oscillator wave angle modulation is about as far as they've gone here and it's disappointingly tame. Imagine the uproar if they had added some digital oscillators - but there is more interesting stuff in the analogue domain too...

It has snapshots but no morphing between them?
euxine
Panason wrote:
It has snapshots but no morphing between them?


That's a fair point, but practically there are enough ways to make a preset modulate that each preset is basically morphing with itself.

Of course, that's easier with variations of a patch rather than morphing to something entirely different. I still think it'd be possible to 'morph' a preset to something totally disparate with 60 mod slots per synth:

- Modulate changes in oscillator settings, both timbre and pitch
- Modulate mixer / vca / pan levels per synth
- For other modulation, you could do mod 'fade in/out' with 2-step modulations. e.g. have one modulation fade out with an increase in mod wheel, and fade in another with the same controller/transform.

A lot of work? Heavens yes. But it's possible, and hooking up those modulations is very fast on the panel unless you're doing something weird.

I think the variation thing is more interesting in the sense that it allows you to keep memory of the initial sound design process. For me, I know there's always a number of ways to take a preset, and all of that ends up getting lost once you 'decide' and save a preset. This way, you can remind yourself what you were thinking of, and leave a couple of examples - this makes it a lot easier to return to that sound design at a later date.

Also, I agree that Moog isn't going light years from home territory, but honestly I wouldn't do that if I was running Moog, and it's generally not a good business strategy to sink major effort/R&D into something wildly different than your main offering. Good way to plow a business into the ground from a cash point of view.

It is a really big incremental step in a new direction, I think. Maybe in 10 years we'll have a moog granular. Well maybe not, but maybe something that breaks with the family crest a bit more.

But if you don't like it and nothing will change your mind, that's also totally cool! Enough other instruments out in the world w00t
Gizmo
euxine wrote:
It'd never replace a modular for me (or a good granular app), but I think it could be my last 'traditional' synth.

Agreed. Goes without saying that the modular has its pros and cons. Patching is an ancient UI but the modular's voice and character can be incomparable. Likewise, multi-tracking to achieve polyphony can be a pain. But when it all comes together it's worth the effort.

Has there ever been a "decent, easy-to-use" UI for synth apps? Unbound from the limitations of pointing devices?
Panason
Gizmo wrote:

Has there ever been a "decent, easy-to-use" UI for synth apps? Unbound from the limitations of pointing devices?


That's where the money is. The first to get this right will make a ton.

A hardware controller for soft synths that has enough knobs and screens and build quality...none of that "8 shitty encoders, a tiny screen and a bunch of shitty silicone buttons" plastic crap sold to teenagers.
The screens could show graphics to make each soft synth retain a visual identity on the controller....
brokensolderingiron
Panason wrote:
Compared to modular setups the M1 is crazy value for money

Yeah, i agree, it was crazy value for money.
EPTC
Panason wrote:
A hardware controller for soft synths that has enough knobs

The screens could show graphics to make each soft synth retain a visual identity on the controller....


Haha, here ya go.

EPTC
Also still love this ipad minimoog from 2013

Exhale
What's the logic making 3 parts in a synthesizer with 8 and 16 voices ?
I can't find one.
Better if they did 4 parts like Nord Lead.
Simple maths.
Dave Kendall
1/ Monophonic Bass line
2/ Mono or Duophonic lead line
3/ The other voices for a pad. . .
brokensolderingiron
Happy customer-: How am i supposed to do technosalsa drums/percussion then?
Amos Moog-: Oh! we deliberately didnt think about that , but now we do, that will be 9500usd, thankyouverymuch sir!
Happy customer-: d'oh!
jmcecil
brokensolderingiron wrote:
Happy customer-: How are i supposed to do drums then?
Amos Moog-: Oh! we deliberately didnt think about that , but now we do, that will be 9500usd then thankyouverymuch sir!
Happy customer-: d'oh!

They purposefully didn't want to eat into their sales of
brokensolderingiron
It cant do salsatechno! (you have to fix the quote)..
boxxgrooved
I think this is a great synth, nice to see that Moog have the confidence and financial ability to produce such a beast of a synth.

My only surprise is the inclusion of DSP fx in what could have been a timeless synth. With the speed at which DSP evolves nowadays those Eventide FX will sound dated in about 10 years and you will be stuck with a monster of a synth with bad FX. I don't see that as a problem however, the synth is that big you could mount a 19" rack on the back of the synth and load up some new fx hihi
Sinamsis
boxxgrooved wrote:
I think this is a great synth, nice to see that Moog have the confidence and financial ability to produce such a beast of a synth.

My only surprise is the inclusion of DSP fx in what could have been a timeless synth. With the speed at which DSP evolves nowadays those Eventide FX will sound dated in about 10 years and you will be stuck with a monster of a synth with bad FX. I don't see that as a problem however, the synth is that big you could mount a 19" rack on the back of the synth and load up some new fx hihi


They're also true bypass. Also not sure this is a valid assumption. For example, I think the Andromeda's effects sounded shitty even when it came out haha. Some effects have a staying quality to them, even if the sonic aesthetic is tied to a specific decade (some of those are the classic Eventide rack units). Otherwise I'm not sure how much "better" you can make BBD emulations. I'm actually surprised at the amount of effort they've put into the effects section, as with most companies this seems to be an afterthought. And, honestly, for end users, these are probably an afterthought as well with one caveat: these are modulation destinations (!!!!). IMO this is the only reason to use built in effects on a synth for me with rare exceptions.
brokensolderingiron
Effects sounding shitty is relative, compare the A6 to SY77 then A6 sounds fantastic! w00t
Dave Kendall
Having effects on-board is a big positive IMO. For playing live it's a very practical thing - it cuts down on the amount of gear and cables you need to haul around and set up.
Plus you don't have to keep track of programs in two separate devices to get a sound you might use often, say, dual sawtooth lead into delay with a tad of reverb - it would all be in the one patch, and from what I've read here, integrated into the modulation routings, which is a lovely touch.
Sure, you can do much of that with an external box, but it would be a lot more faffing around to achieve the same end, given that the quality of the onboard FX is high enough.

Personally, I wouldn't be much concerned about the Eventide FX lacking anything in the future. As has been said, delays are unlikely to get significantly better over the years, and Eventide modulation FX and reverb are good-sounding right now, and have been for many years. If things do change, they can always be omitted from a patch without affecting the sonic character of the synth.

For me, if I had the money, the inclusion of FX would actually swing me towards a purchase. Heretical for some perhaps, but I've always seen the lack of FX in Moogs as a bit of a drawback in practice. As I do play live on and off, it's been a factor in slightly damping my enthusiasm.
Although to be fair, lack of money is a far more dampening factor smile

YMMV.
Panason
EPTC wrote:


Haha, here ya go.



That's another piece of vaporware by Livid....
nectarios
I can't see Eventide effects getting worse with the years.
Effects included on synts, are a great thing. Sure, in the studio you'll (most probably) record dry and apply effects in the mixdown where you have a better idea of what is going on, but on stage they are very handy.

Also, effects with parameters that are modulation destinations are part of the sound.

Also, if there where no effects included, the wow factor that has many people gagging, would be lost. The raw sound of the One is good, but its not better than the competition that is less than half the cash.

The more I read about this thing the more I realise its the tech that commands the price, not the actual raw sound...although 3 parts multitimbral when the Andy was 16parts, almost two decades ago, does raise some eyebrows.
Analog Music
boxxgrooved wrote:

My only surprise is the inclusion of DSP fx in what could have been a timeless synth. With the speed at which DSP evolves nowadays those Eventide FX will sound dated in about 10 years and you will be stuck with a monster of a synth with bad FX.

Who knows , with the power of The One and a freakin ethernet port built into the back of it the Fx might be updated by Eventide themselves with even a more wider selection of new Fx .
brokensolderingiron
nectarios wrote:
I can't see Eventide effects getting worse with the years.

Self degenerative effects, getting worse by the weeks like a rotting apple?
Quote:
The more I read about this thing the more I realise its the tech that commands the price, not the actual raw sound...although 3 parts multitimbral when the Andy was 16parts, almost two decades ago, does raise some eyebrows.

1984 Xpander
1986 Matrix12
1994 OBMx
2000 A6
2018 MoogOne

A span of 34 years and they where all multitimbral how is Moog reasoning really?!
Angroc
I would guess it's only three parts since that's how many FX per part they wanted to support.

If they went higher, they would have to have either made ALL the fx individual sends, OR added more FX slots.

I too wish they'd had more. It's not uncommon for me to use 8 different parts at least on my Andy. I thought this could be a nice modern upgrade, but this fact alone makes wanna save my ££££.
euxine
Unless you're taking specifically about access to a filter, multi-timbrality seems like a kind of fuzzy concept.

For the sake of discussion, you could say that any synth with more than one oscillator per voice is multi-timbral in that you can stack and modulate disparate timbres. Given that the one has 3 dedicated envelopes and dedicated, modulatable vcas per layer, you could say that it is 48 part multi timbral for a 16 voice.

Practically, i don't think this is the right angle to view the synth. As suit said, it is a hugely deep synth. None of us will bottom it out in practice with 180 mod slots and 60 sequencer lanes. We can pour over spec and make theoretical judgments, but really, we could just decide yes or no on the interface and sound shaping possibilities.

I'm more excited by thinking about whether it fits my way of working than trying to decide whether it is good. An instrument that fits well always gets used more than one that doesn't.
Sir Ruff
Y’all are overthinking the multitimbral thing—it’s meant more for layering or splits, I.e. for performances, rather than playing multiple individual parts.
brokensolderingiron
Haha! Flashback in the 80ies we all (sensible people) sat behind Atari 1040 doing multitimbral songs on ESQ1 and Xpanders because we couldn't afford 24ch Studers and 16 JP8's. You cant do analog drums unless its multitimbral either by Midi ch or keybed per note level! So i like to do analog drums as i did on 2 Xpanders i couldent afford as i like to do on my MoogOne i also cant afford, or rather thinks is overpriced like hell since its not multitimbral, thankyouverymuch!
Carrousel
I’m not overthinking anything. It’s very simple for me. I’m not interested in an $8k synth unless it can handle several full separate parts at once. Three seems quite poor to be honest. I would have wanted more, with perhaps 8 individual outputs. I don’t think that’s unreasonable at this price tag. I’m not whinging by the way....just pointing out that I’m not overthinking anything.

As for the comment before that (I should really use quotes at this stage)....how in the hell are you trying to say multi-osc=multi-timbral....that’s not helpful to anyone.
Sir Ruff
Well if being truly multitimbral was the dealbreaker, you've saved yourself a pile of cash, amirite? cool
Carrousel
Absolutely! SlayerBadger!

Nae bitterness whatsoever.

I just feel the market has been crying out for proper analog multi-timbral job for a while now. Novation really did well when they released the Peak, but if it had 4 part multi-timbrality with even just 4 mono outs (plus option to group in stereo pairs) it would have been an absolute game-changer.

This Moog looks interesting for sure though.

Edit: guess I’m forgetting some DSI synths which probably have multi-timbral options?
Sir Ruff
Carrousel wrote:
I just feel the market has been crying out for proper analog multi-timbral job for a while now.


The Code from SE is multitimbral, though I have heard that getting that part of it to work can be pretty tricky.

I'm guessing Moog wanted to strike some sort of balance between multi-layered a la OB-Xa/Jupiter-8, and multitimbral. I agree that an even divisor would have made a lot more sense, but in at least one of the demos I saw, there was a clear "main/lower/upper" part separation on the screen that made the three part aspect make more sense.
Sinamsis
Carrousel wrote:
Absolutely! SlayerBadger!

Nae bitterness whatsoever.

I just feel the market has been crying out for proper analog multi-timbral job for a while now. Novation really did well when they released the Peak, but if it had 4 part multi-timbrality with even just 4 mono outs (plus option to group in stereo pairs) it would have been an absolute game-changer.

This Moog looks interesting for sure though.

Edit: guess I’m forgetting some DSI synths which probably have multi-timbral options?


Ha, the Ambika has 6 parts and 6 dedicated mono outs. Seems to be a reasonable comparison. Otherwise there are some other options. Futuresonus Parva is another that comes to mind. And then a bunch of VA.

I think it's not really fair (or more importantly valid) for people to say at that price point a synth should have X or Y... well, no, if that feature was added it would add A, B and C, making the price even higher. The price is for the features included.

Adding more timbres, specifically, would require more DSP, more AD and DA conversion, dedicated output jacks on the back, etc. Personally, I'd like more timbres too. But not if it costs more than $8k haha. 3 timbres is plenty for me
sduck
I'd guess that it having only 3 poly layers instead of 2 or 4 or whatever was the result of many design compromises. You've already got a ton of chip processing bandwidth being used for just one poly layer and effects. Add on more layers and things will eventually choke or stop working right. It could have been a situation where they could have made it four layers if they disabled the effects, or otherwise compromised to synth engine to get it to work. Or doubled the price. Plus once you start adding layers the code gets really complicated, the design choices get really difficult, and so many compromises are introduced that no-one is really happy with it.

My JD-800 can be operated as 4 layers of poly patches, but it gets really compromised once you start messing with it - it's limited to 24 voices, and depending on the patch you might end up with only one available voice - each patch can have up to 4 voices (I'm confusing some of the terminology used by roland, sorry). Even 24 voices - can be a lot for a single patch, but when layering patches, they run out fast. I hardly ever use the multi mode because of the complications involved.
nectarios
Well, I don't know how difficult it would be to implement send effects for each part, or what synth engine compromises would have been done. But seeing as this thing costs 8k, and since there have been synths doing more than 3 parts, when there was much less tech available (or it was MUCH more expensive) and cost much less than the One and they came out literally decades ago...its just weird.

Something does not add up...this thing costs 8000! and when you get on stage, you run out at 3 timbres... hmmm.....
nectarios
euxine wrote:
Unless you're taking specifically about access to a filter, multi-timbrality seems like a kind of fuzzy concept.

For the sake of discussion, you could say that any synth with more than one oscillator per voice is multi-timbral in that you can stack and modulate disparate timbres. Given that the one has 3 dedicated envelopes and dedicated, modulatable vcas per layer, you could say that it is 48 part multi timbral for a 16 voice.


You could say that but you'd be wrong. That's not what multitimbral means.
tioJim
Is everyone still carping on about the Moog One then? Costs too much. Doesn't deliver. Moog are idiots, or evil, or both. Expensive toy for middle-aged men. It can't do this, it can't do that. A tree died for that cabinet. That kind of thing?

Thought so. I'll check back in a week or two, see if anything's changed. Or I could just start a Roland thread, spread the hate.
suitandtieguy
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!
tioJim
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


Well I haven't tried one but it seems highly unlikely that it isn't, at the very least, rather good.

Every manufacturer hits a bum note from time to time but surely as Levi's make jeans, Spielberg action movies and Ferrari sports cars; so Moog make synthesisers.

I'd be surprised if they've got this 'One' wrong.
brokensolderingiron
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!
this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!

Ofcourse it is but you are not a reliable source of independent info on sonical "taste".
Matrix12 is also awesome, so is SY99 and many other things, like Chevrolets, sausages, toothpaste and bananas. meh

Anyhow, there is no such thing as synth hate its just very childish to say there are, it only shows that the person who says so cant take an argument without reaching for strawman's.
Exhale
If all the features of Moog One were combined with the sound beauty of Baloran The River, it would be great.

But listening to Moog tone ......... yeah it's analog...
Tons of modulations. Eventide FX. Looks like MemoryMoog.

But the main thing is missing. Pleasure listening to the sounds.
trentpmcd
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


It looks great! I enjoyed your video demonstrating some of your sounds on it. On the other hand, I'm still trying to scrape together enough pennies to afford a Sea Devils Filter, so a Moog One is not in my near future wink
bkbirge
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


Loved your demo, especially the Rhodes'ish patch and your referencing every sound with some historical inspirational context.
tioJim
bkbirge wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


Loved your demo, especially the Rhodes'ish patch and your referencing every sound with some historical inspirational context.


because no reviewer has ever done that before

i guess it proves it's a lemon
bkbirge
tioJim wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


Loved your demo, especially the Rhodes'ish patch and your referencing every sound with some historical inspirational context.


because no reviewer has ever done that before

i guess it proves it's a lemon


? Perhaps I'm missing context but I wasn't being sarcastic. I didn't know most of the historical origins of the sounds, usually synth demos are kind of their own thing with no ties to any music, just some guys creating sounds out of the ether. STG seemed to have intention *and* he explained it with musically relevant examples, I've not seen that in a demo before but maybe I just don't watch the right ones. seriously, i just don't get it
tioJim
bkbirge wrote:
tioJim wrote:
bkbirge wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


Loved your demo, especially the Rhodes'ish patch and your referencing every sound with some historical inspirational context.


because no reviewer has ever done that before

i guess it proves it's a lemon


? Perhaps I'm missing context but I wasn't being sarcastic. I didn't know most of the historical origins of the sounds, usually synth demos are kind of their own thing with no ties to any music, just some guys creating sounds out of the ether. STG seemed to have intention *and* he explained it with musically relevant examples, I've not seen that in a demo before but maybe I just don't watch the right ones. seriously, i just don't get it


i thought you were being sarcastic, my bad Guinness ftw!
tioJim
For the reasoned and constructive criticism wrt to the Moog One found in this thread (given that hardly anyone's actually seen let alone played one) I say, fair enough.

For the rest of it ...

Criticising popular things: why is it so popular?

"But with the online revolution and everyone having access to a public platform, there are increasing examples of popular things being attacked purely because they are popular, or some flimsy rationale like how the popular things actually has a negative effect on those who experience it (usually based on wild leaps of logic and little or no evidence) or that the popular thing is actually an attempt to push a specific ideology which differs from the criticisers own (again typically based on wild logic and unfounded speculation as to the motivations of the popular thing’s creators)."
bkbirge
tioJim wrote:

i thought you were being sarcastic, my bad Guinness ftw!


All good. Drinking
Sir Ruff
tioJim wrote:
Is everyone still carping on about the Moog One then? Costs too much. Doesn't deliver. Moog are idiots, or evil, or both. Expensive toy for middle-aged men. It can't do this, it can't do that. A tree died for that cabinet. That kind of thing?

Thought so. I'll check back in a week or two, see if anything's changed. Or I could just start a Roland thread, spread the hate.


hihi

There always seems to be a negativity vacuum in the period between when a product is announced and when it’s released. People are at least still having salient convos here. Over on GS, I get the sense that the only ones commenting at this point are those that can’t afford it and want to continue to bash it, and those who might by one down the road. The folks that have actually pre-ordered one have all buggered off and clearly have better things to do with their lives!
Dave Peck
I'm curious about the many comments regarding the unit being three-part multitimbral. It seems like a lot of people really find this to be a significant shortcoming and I'm wondering why this is.

For a keyboard based polysynth, I am wondering when it would be necessary to have the synth be capable of playing more than three different parts, with separate patches per part, simultaneously?

I come from a background of sorta traditional keyboard based synth music, and I often layer patches like crazy (either from the same synth or from multiple synths) but that isn't "multitimbral". I've rarely needed to set up the rig with anything more than a two-way keyboard split, to be able to play more than two different parts / two different patches at the same time. I only have two hands.

Can you guys describe the kinds of situations where you really need four or eight part multitimbral capability from one synth?
tioJim
Dave Peck wrote:
Can you guys describe the kinds of situations where you really need four or eight part multitimbral capability from one synth?


I'm perplexed that anybody expects an analog polysynth to have any multitimbral capability let alone four voices or more!
bkbirge
tioJim wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:
Can you guys describe the kinds of situations where you really need four or eight part multitimbral capability from one synth?


I'm perplexed that anybody expects an analog polysynth to have any multitimbral capability let alone four voices or more!


Yeah, multi-timbrality on an analog is pretty wild.

However in the rompler days it was pretty standard and I and many others would use it to craft complete songs and then do sound replacement as a separate step if the rompler's weren't cutting it.

Example, Proteus racks from E-mu and the JV1080's from Roland all had buckets of GM type sounds so you could run Cakewalk and set 16 tracks to each of your synth boxes. Work on the tune, get the arrangement right and then multi-track it one at a time using custom sounds on your flagship synth whatever that might have been. Or just leave it as-is and sync to the multitrack so you'd get 16+ extra tracks of synth percolating along with your vocals, drums, guitars, etc. You can still do the same basic idea today with analog synths but it'll be one synth per track/part usually. Those old Proteus boxes were 32 part multi-timbral IIRC and so you could have a laptop, a midi interface and one of those with a set of headphones and be cranking out production while on tour or at home. Technology has moved on so it's not such a game changer but there was a time it was a huge deal.

I remember getting my Waldorf XT and thinking that it "only" having 8 part multi-timbrality was a step backwards.
tioJim
bkbirge wrote:
tioJim wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:
Can you guys describe the kinds of situations where you really need four or eight part multitimbral capability from one synth?


I'm perplexed that anybody expects an analog polysynth to have any multitimbral capability let alone four voices or more!


Yeah, multi-timbrality on an analog is pretty wild.

However in the rompler days it was pretty standard


For sure. I'd totally expect a ROMpler to be multi-timbral for sure. That was kind of the point of them. It's always been a big disappointment to me that none of the Nords bar the flagship (and expensive) Stage models are true multi-timbral. I've a Yamaha MODX on my shopping list and am thoroughly looking forward to multi-timbral AWM2 + FM.

As for multi-timbral analog polysynth, I think three parts cuts it. Bass, lead and pads. Job done!
Carrousel
In terms of the multi-timbrality thing, I'm absolutely thinking about the instrument more in terms of a studio tool than on stage.

The appeal of a great sounding analog poly with a brilliant UI being multi-timbral is that you could tweak and prepare several parts to one song, sequencing them on separate midi channels, then record them all in one pass.

I guess that sounds needlessly decadent, but then so does 8k for one instrument!
Angroc
Quote:
Y’all are overthinking the multitimbral thing—it’s meant more for layering or splits, I.e. for performances, rather than playing multiple individual parts.

It's multitimbral. Full stop. Has nothing to do with how you use it; it supports loading up several patches at once. That's multi-timbral. When I use layered voices on a multitimbral synth, am I somehow making it not multi-timbral? They even say it in the specs themselves: tri-timbral. With aux outs (sub out) even.
Quote:
Can you guys describe the kinds of situations where you really need four or eight part multitimbral capability from one synth?

On my A6, I'll have one part running base, two at a time running leads and melody (either hard panned left/right or stacked), pluss percussion and sfx sounds, all being sequenced from a cirklon. No need to layer different takes, I do it all in one go from the same machine! Working like this is ergonomic, since you move about less while working, and it adds bang for the buck!
Quote:
I'm perplexed that anybody expects an analog polysynth to have any multitimbral capability let alone four voices or more!

Why? It's not an uncommon thing to have. For live playing in band sorta scenario I'd understand the confusion, but for studios on a budget, multi timbral polies are invaluable value for your money.
tioJim
Angroc wrote:
Quote:
I'm perplexed that anybody expects an analog polysynth to have any multitimbral capability let alone four voices or more!

Why? It's not an uncommon thing to have. For live playing in band sorta scenario I'd understand the confusion, but for studios on a budget, multi timbral polies are invaluable value for your money.


It's not common on true analogs surely? VAs maybe.
Dave Peck
I guess I don't see much difference in workflow between creating lots of different sequenced tracks one at a time in the synth (and then playing/recording them into the DAW once) versus creating those same sequenced tracks and playing/recording them into the DAW one at a time.....

Except that, if you do it the second way, which does NOT require multitimbral capability, you get full eight voice polyphony on EVERY TRACK. So a piece with eight different parts/sounds can end up playing back 64 voices (eight per part) instead of eight voices max (one per part).

For me, it seems like multitimbral capability just has a huge tradeoff of severely limited polyphony per voice, and it's better to just record the separate parts one at a time with max available polyphony per part.

But I suppose it may also depend on a lot of things like the style of music. If I were doing stuff like, say, Erasure, which often only uses one or two voices per part, it may not be a big limitation.
Panason
The only multitimbral synths that worked for me are the ones that have instant access to each part with a dedicated button on the front panel... anything else it too much hassle. The Nord 3 does this the best : with the LED rings you can instantly see the controls change as you switch parts - which gives the synth nerd in me a minor boner.

Angroc wrote:

It's multitimbral. Full stop. Has nothing to do with how you use it; it supports loading up several patches at once. That's multi-timbral. When I use layered voices on a multitimbral synth, am I somehow making it not multi-timbral? .


I think it has to be able to play the parts on different MIDI channels too, not just do keyboard splits. But that may be hair splitting razz
Sinamsis
Dave Peck wrote:
I guess I don't see much difference in workflow between creating lots of different sequenced tracks one at a time in the synth (and then playing/recording them into the DAW once) versus creating those same sequenced tracks and playing/recording them into the DAW one at a time.....

Except that, if you do it the second way, which does NOT require multitimbral capability, you get full eight voice polyphony on EVERY TRACK. So a piece with eight different parts/sounds can end up playing back 64 voices (eight per part) instead of eight voices max (one per part).

For me, it seems like multitimbral capability just has a huge tradeoff of severely limited polyphony per voice, and it's better to just record the separate parts one at a time with max available polyphony per part.

But I suppose it may also depend on a lot of things like the style of music. If I were doing stuff like, say, Erasure, which often only uses one or two voices per part, it may not be a big limitation.


There are several reasons that having the option of taking multiple timbres from the same synth can be beneficial. Most obviously, some folks don't use a DAW and/or record to tape for example. Secondly, combing incoming audio, with incoming MIDI sequences to plugins, and prerecorded audio adds several points where sync can get a little sloppy. Third, having multiple patches available at once prevents the need to commit early and keeps me from having to record multiple takes because I've decided to make small tweaks. I could keep going. Personally, I'm one of those decadent motherfuckers, where all my synths have a dedicated input on my interface, and I commit the audio towards the end of the creative process. I'm also using a Cirklon.
chvad
Dave Peck wrote:
Can you guys describe the kinds of situations where you really need four or eight part multitimbral capability from one synth?


When playing live, I do prefer to have as many zones/splits available on my keys as possible. to a degree i can often get away with a lot of sequenced program changes but the moment the rest of the band strays from a rehearsed path into a jam that puts me into a real bind. having a bunch of sounds and split sitting waiting for me to play them is where its at. for years i played out with a ks4/ion combo which would allow for a potential 8 zones... i rarely did THAT much but often two zones for each keybed. it was a nice setup. after those went on their way ive been using a nord lead 4 which when used with another keybed offers up a similar setup live... though in someways not as flexible. in any case... i never sweat a synth being multitimbral in the studio. ever. for me its always a live concern.
nectarios
chvad wrote:
i never sweat a synth being multitimbral in the studio. ever. for me its always a live concern.


Exactly the same for me.
euxine
It's getting quieter in here - maybe we've all aired our views sufficiently and/or getting extra sleep in order to shorten the wait time for Moog Ones to start arriving? This is fun!

Anyone heard about upcoming demos / videos / reviews, or firmer ship dates?
Gizmo
euxine wrote:
It's getting quieter in here . . .

Yes, it's refreshing to see discussion that is knowledgeable, mature, substantive and respectful instead of the needless sniping.
brokensolderingiron
Dave Peck wrote:
I'm curious about the many comments regarding the unit being three-part multitimbral. It seems like a lot of people really find this to be a significant shortcoming and I'm wondering why this is.

For a keyboard based polysynth, I am wondering when it would be necessary to have the synth be capable of playing more than three different parts, with separate patches per part, simultaneously?
I come from a background of sorta traditional keyboard based synth music, and I often layer patches like crazy (either from the same synth or from multiple synths) but that isn't "multitimbral". I've rarely needed to set up the rig with anything more than a two-way keyboard split, to be able to play more than two different parts / two different patches at the same time. I only have two hands.

Layering and split is per definition multitimbral capacity whether you do it as you say crazy 3,4,5,-10 times does not matter.
Dave Peck wrote:
I guess I don't see much difference in workflow between creating lots of different sequenced tracks one at a time in the synth (and then playing/recording them into the DAW once) versus creating those same sequenced tracks and playing/recording them into the DAW one at a time.....

It takes at least xxx more times and hassle.
Quote:
Except that, if you do it the second way, which does NOT require multitimbral capability,you get full eight voice polyphony on EVERY TRACK. So a piece with eight different parts/sounds can end up playing back 64 voices (eight per part) instead of eight voices max (one per part).

Dont fool your self on that one, no we dont play and record 64 snare drums at once. Yet ESQ1 can be fully poly in multitimbral mode as well as Kurzweils etc.
Quote:
>For me, it seems like multitimbral capability just has a huge tradeoff of severely limited polyphony per voice,

Nope its not its the opposite, Kurzweils for instance is always in multitimbral mode even in single poly mode each singel sound in that multi is fully pholyphonic as well the single poly mode is multi layer split, key, etc, multi in it self, which you can manually strangle to a specific amount of voices or leave as is for dynamic auto assignment.

So really that is no limit, analogs can be made to behave in the very same way , ESQ1 was the first to do this so the technique is very old , i would bet 1/3 of my hat there is something similar in the Chroma, A6 as well even more refined, M12 i dont know but would not be surprised.

So a 8000usd MoogOne should have that , layers and splits over key range all different sounds, crazy as per your work flow, the 3 way multi is not enough i argue, not for a 8000usd flagship, perhaps it will be when they do the limited goldplated edition. The only reason i can think of for the 3 part limit is limited SRAM edit buffers on voice if each voice uses a separate MCU.
Quote:
>and it's better to just record the separate parts one at a time with max available polyphony per part.

As just mentioned, you may play 64 snaredrums at once while most other folks dont.
How many tracks on your DAW contains layered/split snare drums on your regular country and western song?

You may argue you have 64 individual sounding snare drums and if you do how did they come there into your DAW
in the first place? Unless.......unless you recorded them 64 times one at the time in single sound mode because if
you did record them all 64 at once you had the synth in "multitimbral mode" playing them al at once or your single sound poly is 64 way multitibral per key just as DSS1 or SY99 and others can do ! Not that i think you have 64 fingers! hihi

Quote:
>But I suppose it may also depend on a lot of things like the style of music.

Spot on , and work flow and musical ethics and sonical preferences
Dave Peck
brokensolderingiron wrote:

As just mentioned, you may play 64 snaredrums at once while most other folks dont.
How many tracks on your DAW contains layered/split snare drums on your regular country and western song?

You may argue you have 64 individual sounding snare drums and if you do how did they come there into your DAW
in the first place? Unless.......unless you recorded them 64 times one at the time in single sound mode because if
you did record them all 64 at once you had the synth in "multitimbral mode" playing them al at once or your single sound poly is 64 way multitibral per key just as DSS1 or SY99 and others can do ! Not that i think you have 64 fingers! hihi

Quote:
>But I suppose it may also depend on a lot of things like the style of music.

Spot on , and work flow and musical ethics and sonical preferences


Hmmm I think you may have misunderstood the process I was describing...

For example, I have a synth pad part that requires six voices to play two-handed six note chords. I have a different synth pad sound, playing a different part, that requires seven voices. A third sound / part that requires five voices. There's no way to do that on an eight voice polysynth unless I record the parts/sounds one at a time - which results in a total of eighteen voices (6+7+5) playing three different parts at the same time. That's ten more voices than what is actually available in the synth's hardware. And that's just three recorded tracks in the DAW project.

Not sure where you're getting the idea about 64 snares.... But even with drum sounds, a difference in musical style can make a big difference in the polyphony requirements needed to play the drum part. For example, the music I make tends to use drum sounds like the huge drum hits at the beginning of this track, and again at about the 1:10 mark:



.....and these are often done by playing a big cluster of notes on the keyboard that eat up many voices on each drum hit. Add a few more different drum sounds, each requiring four to eight voices per hit, and the only way to do that on an eight voice polysynth is to record the parts separately. Multitimbral capability won't help. It just drastically reduces the polyphony available for each part, same problem as with the three pad sounds.

I guess the point is that I wouldn't be put off from buying an eight voice polysynth that sounded great and had a deep voice architecture just because it was only three-way multitimbral. I can see that other people DO prefer to rely on multitimbral capability rather than using the process I use, but it's not accurate to say that there is "no limit" involved in doing so - there is a BIG limit - the limit is eight voices total at any point in the music when you do it that way.
thispoison
Lugging my own gear, I really need everything in one board, and my old Nord Stage 88, was I guess 6 part multi timbral / 3 keyboard zones.

Newer Stage 73 is the same, but with added sampling there is way more flexibility with sample zones coming into play too. There are a number of songs we play that need more.

That said, I wouldn't consider a Moog One for similar duties, just as I don't think of my Andromeda in that way and it's never left the studio.

I guess we all need/do different things with our gear.

Really want a Moog One, and being in a position to buy one just makes it harder. Problem is I was sure I had Model D duties covered with the Voyager, Oscar, Odyssey, 700S, Polivox etc, then I played one and realised I was very wrong.

Part of me wants / hopes (no, that's unfair) the One doesn't have the same effect, as it's a huge amount of money.

Only ever had 3hrs on the Memorymoog mostly around the factory programs 33% awful attempts at pianos/flutes/clavies etc, 33% unusable overpowered sounds and 33% absolute bliss.

The One is beautiful also. Can't wait to play one.
dubonaire
The Moog One has obviously caught a lot of people's imaginations. I'm not sure if it's because it's a Moog or because it seems to be an awesome synth. Maybe a bit of both. Either way I'd call that at least a small victory for the company and it's quite cool. I hope it does well for them.

I find it fascinating that the early synth companies are having a renaissance.
denuir
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!

this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!


Your shore leave pad is incredibly inspiring. Tingles!
deltaphoenix
How about something different and lighthearted yet Moog One related?

So, I am in NC at my inlaw’s cabin about an hour west of Asheville and today was our day to go to Asheville. I concocted a plan this morning...a way to get a Moog One, for free. It was simple; I would walk into the store and declare (in a French accent) that I was JMJ’s son Jean-Paul and I was there to collect the synth for my father. I would blather on about how I run his studio and that me picking up the One was safer and faster than commercial shipping of this fine instrument.

After we arrive in Asheville and have lunch, it was my allotted time to pop into the Moog store before we head over to WNC Nature Preserve with the kiddos and my in-laws. So, my wife and 3.5 year old want to go with me to the Moog store and I am starting to get nervous as we walk over. I knew my wife couldn’t keep-up with scene that was going to happen and I hoped that she would want to go to the coffee shop next door.

As we approached the Moog building, my wife asked if I wanted her to pick me up some coffee while she got some and I immediately said that “Yes, I do” and fumbled around in my wallet to fish out $20 and send her on her way. So now, it is me and the 3.5 year old. I am thinking to myself that she loves to play pranks on people so I added onto Jean-Paul’s backstory; he has an American wife and that is why the child doesn’t have a French accent but I realized that this is just too much; the French accent will throw her off and even if I try to prep her, she will freaking blow it! So I call an audible as we walk in the door.

I walk my daughter, Harper over to the Voyager and we start talking about the synth and I get headphones on her after checking that the volume wasn’t too loud. Harper is a music/synth/noise maker in the making and so she is happily plucking away. I see the Moog store employee walking up (Paul?), I think I recognize him from last year, and he asks how we are doing. So, I take my shot: I drop the son of JMJ bit and French accent piece and just start talking about working for JMJ and how I here to pickup the One, etc. Paul says something like, “Wow, none have gone out the door yet, this is awesome. Who is your contact?”

I almost said Amos but what would an engineer really have to do with a sale? I almost said Mike Adams (their CEO) but I wasn’t ready to turn this into a job interview yet because I am not ready to move to Asheville- I work in sales (B2B software sales) and have a romantic idea in my head about doing sales for Moog. So, I knew the charade was up because I wasn’t willing to commit to going any further. So, I ousted myself, we both laughed pretty hard and then he asked me if I worked for JMJ, I said no. Then he asked if I was actually in the industry (meaning did I run a studio), I said no. I replied that I am actually just a super hobbyist. Paul was impressed by how I was able to have him buy-in to my story and how I just kept a straight face the whole time.

So Harper and I hung out in the store for about 20 minutes, playing synths and having a lot of fun. During that time Paul and I talked about Moog doing Euro modules, the discontinuation of the Mooger Foogers and a few other synth topics. I bought a Moog shirt, Paul gave my daughter a bunch of Moog Pencils and we left... on to the next adventure.

Pics:

Moog One in production (I snuck that Pic by holding my camera up high and taking it through a window)


My main partner in crime, Harper + the Keith Emerson Modular Rig
Blairio
That looks like a great store!

The splits & layers thing is well covered by your average workstation - like a Motif or Chronos, or whatever. But workstations are 'jacks of all trades, and masters of none'. I guess that's why a serious polysynth with split & layering capabilities makes perfect sense. The Oberheim matrix series had this, so you could play chords on one hand and solo with the other, on two different sounds. And so of course did the Jupiter 8.... Many of the JP8's classic patches employ layers.

In live terms, it means taking one keyboard out instead of two - or three. In the studio you can build subtle layered patches, or create complex drones or pads, or whatever.

This isn't new. Back in the day the mighty Korg Trident offered analog brass, strings and synth voices, all stacked on top of each other. So you could compose a mighty prog rock anthem to the herniated disk you got from trying to lift the thing. Weight aside, it was a gorgeous keyboard.
Rex Coil 7
Dave Peck wrote:
I've rarely needed to set up the rig with anything more than a two-way keyboard split, to be able to play more than two different parts / two different patches at the same time. I only have two hands.
Yea, but with a 61 note keybed it's nice to be able to set up three zones with different sounds to use as separate "synths" all loaded up and at the ready for playing different passages, riffs, or runs without having to change patches. I do this all the time with multi-tibre synths. My Kurzweil offers sixteen zones, and while I've never (ever) used sixteen zones at once I most certainly have set up multis using four and even five different zones with different sounds on them to use during a live performance situation.

Re; this Moog ... Perhaps two different bass sounds ... one on each of the first two octaves and a lead/poly sound on the remaining three upper octaves (for instance).

Just pointing that out.

seriously, i just don't get it
euxine
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
My Kurzweil offers sixteen zones, and while I've never (ever) used sixteen zones at once I most certainly have set up multis using four and even five different zones with different sounds on them to use during a live performance situation.

Re; this Moog ... Perhaps two different bass sounds ... one on each of the first two octaves and a lead/poly sound on the remaining three upper octaves (for instance).


Just thinking about how to simulate this - Would it work to build up performance sets that have series of presets, each of which have 1 or 2 common splits i.e. same 2 basses and different 3rd sound, then switch a bass etc. Then you'd be able to continue playing and evolve the split using those lovely preset buttons or midi. Of course, that might rely on master effects not re-initialising.... hmmm.....
Rex Coil 7
tioJim wrote:
Is everyone still carping on about the Moog One then? Costs too much. Doesn't deliver. Moog are idiots, or evil, or both. Expensive toy for middle-aged men. It can't do this, it can't do that. A tree died for that cabinet. That kind of thing?

Thought so. I'll check back in a week or two, see if anything's changed.
Having read a few pages, I wouldn't advise holding one's breath while waiting for the weather to clear up in this thread. I suppose it may help to keep in mind that (far too) many people these days bitch about highly capable synths that cost over $500 as overpriced. Many folks just cannot be pleased. And yet others are just downright spoiled brats. For whatever reason(s) new Moog instrument threads seem to attract some of the worst offenders like flies to dogshit.

brokensolderingiron wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:
hai guyz!
this thing is awessome! Guinness ftw!

Ofcourse it is but you are not a reliable source of independent info on sonical "taste".
eek! woah Damn man ... WTF over? I bet you're fun at a party. Did you write that book named "How to make friends and influence people"? Yea, I didn't think so. I hope you were just kidding around or something.

Dave Peck wrote:
I'm curious about the many comments regarding the unit being three-part multitimbral. It seems like a lot of people really find this to be a significant shortcoming and I'm wondering why this is.
Spoiled folks expecting unreasonable feature lists. It could have sixteen zones, 128 note polyphony, 12 onboard "demo sequences", 32 outputs, one finger chords, eight Strymon FX blocks per MIDI zone/voice, and an included free ATA rated flight case and some folks would still find reason to bitch. Wrong knobs, wrong typeface on the lettering, no 128,000 event polyphonic sixteen track sequencer, too heavy, too light, not voice activated, doesn't come with fucking Fortnight built into the firmware ... whatever.

It's a Moog poly ... it's what people have been wanting for years. No matter how Moog design it, built it, there's a demographic of those that wouldn't be happy no matter how it was made. That's just a fact, unfortunately. If I were wealthy, I'd buy one and rack it up with a DSI Pro2, a fully refurbed Rhodes Stage 73, my 1962 Hammond C3, and my 5U modular. But I'm not wealthy, so I'm just hoping to see and hear it used on stage played by talented musicians that have written music for it worth listening too that really know how to get the most out of it and know how to really wring it out. I want to hear it used in blistering rock music played by talented live bands. Used by a keyboard player as the sole synth in the rig (so it's really used heavily and completely).

Vicarious ownership is the best I can hope for. thumbs up

But that doesn't mean I love my modular or my digital MIDI rack synths made in the 90s any less!

applause

I think I'll check back in sometime after the first part of 2019. However I'm not expecting much. Meanwhile Tou Yube has more and more videos demonstrating it as each week goes by.

MiniMoog
Mind Flayer
When I first read about this product I thought, well, probably an amazing synth, but at that price, I didn't really give any serious thought to purchasing one.

But lately I have been in the process of selling off a bunch of gear that I have laying around that I just don't use much (including guitar stuff, being a recovering guitar GAS patient). I can't really justify spending $6,000 on a synth while keeping all of my other stuff, but if I just make a concerted effort to get rid of all of my extraneous stuff and focus on just having a select few awesome instruments, I could probably raise enough to afford the 8-voice version. I don't need two strats -- I should be happy with one. I don't need four amps -- I should be happy with one or two. I don't need four mono synths -- one, or maybe two, are plenty.

The Moog One seems like of those lifetime purchases -- something that I'll (hopefully) keep forever, that will likely remain in one area and just always be there (like an acoustic piano) to explore and enjoy. I've found that having too much gear just results in me having a more superficial relationship with each of the instruments, rather than having a super-deep, intuitive understanding of a smaller number of instruments. I think I'd rather have a deep, close relationship with 3 instruments than a shallow relationship with 10.

So, I'm planning on evaluating what I really need and selling the rest over the next few months, with an eye toward possibly getting the 8-voice Moog One. But at that price, I'll need a chance to actually sit down and play the thing in person -- keybed feel and the overall feel of the thing will be huge for me (based on what I've listened to so far, the sound is there for my ears).
sduck
deltaphoenix wrote:
How about something different and lighthearted yet Moog One related?

So, I am in NC at my inlaw’s cabin about an hour west of Asheville.....


That is an absolutely great story! Love it!

Asheville is a nice litte day trip from here... hmmmm.
Dave Peck
sduck wrote:


Asheville is a nice litte day trip from here... hmmmm.


You're that close? Jeeez, pedal to the metal, dude. Roadtrip!!! This is fun!
electricfence
sduck wrote:
deltaphoenix wrote:
How about something different and lighthearted yet Moog One related?

So, I am in NC at my inlaw’s cabin about an hour west of Asheville.....


That is an absolutely great story! Love it!

Asheville is a nice litte day trip from here... hmmmm.


I'm pretty close, too. It might be fun to go in with exactly the same story (I'm just picking up a One for JMJ) and see how it goes over.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
the Moog One will feature in the next issue of -

medbot
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
the Moog One will feature in the next issue of -



Is that also your magazine or is Miserable Shitposter your only publication?
electricfence
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
the Moog One will feature in the next issue of -



They misspelled "MIDI-life crisis."
Panason
I can't see the magazine cover waah
chipaudette
electricfence wrote:
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
the Moog One will feature in the next issue of -



They misspelled "MIDI-life crisis."


This was so awesome!

Chip
MindMachine
I'll wait for the minikey version to bitch about it.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
medbot wrote:
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
the Moog One will feature in the next issue of -



Is that also your magazine or is Miserable Shitposter your only publication?

not my mag. it's doing the rounds just now. and it just shows it's all about the gear, the look of it and very little music.

anyway judging by your initial retort, you must be a very delusional synth owner, as it hit a nerve with you.

time to take off that big texan ego-hat i think!
numan7
confused well i always thought folks were more into big oklahoman hats up in denton...

Miley Cyrus anyways, let's please try to be nice everyone!


cheers
milkshake
Moog one: Loads of possibilities, great.

Raw sound, meh. (judging from all the youtube vids) GAS gone.
fireclown
does anyone know if this will have the chasing LED function?
crucial.
anselmi
milkshake wrote:
Moog one: Loads of possibilities, great.

Raw sound, meh. (judging from all the youtube vids) GAS gone.


it sounds "very good" of course...or even "great" if you want, but...I expected more...something amazing for the feature set and price

I mean, the first sound on this video impressed me more than the One demos...and it`s a VERY simple sound, but the audio is so gorgeous



yeah, this Prophet 5 has effects on it but the One has effects too, so I think it´s a fair comparison...or maybe until I hear the One in the flesh

Maybe I`d have to wait for the Kijimi...or just buy a second hand P6...and save a lot of money in my "next polysynth" budget
nectarios
anselmi wrote:
milkshake wrote:
Moog one: Loads of possibilities, great.

Raw sound, meh. (judging from all the youtube vids) GAS gone.


it sounds "very good" of course...or even "great" if you want, but...I expected more...something amazing for the feature set and price

I mean, the first sound on this video impressed me more than the One demos...and it`s a VERY simple sound, but the audio is so gorgeous



yeah, this Prophet 5 has effects on it but the One has effects too, so I think it´s a fair comparison...or maybe until I hear the One in the flesh

Maybe I`d have to wait for the Kijimi...or just buy a second hand P6...and save a lot of money in my "next polysynth" budget


Well, you are comparing one of the best sounding synths of all time that was made in a different era, with a modern Moog.

I agree with you (from what I have herd so far anyway) but these are quite different sounding synths and its down to taste really.

I think the P5 is one of the best sounding synths of all time as well.
SynthBaron
It's its own instrument. This is like people who were disappointed that the Voyager wasn't a Minimoog.
brokensolderingiron
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
offenders like flies to dogshit.

Sugar attracts more flies then dogshit! MoogOne is sugar! w00t
Quote:
eek! woah Damn man ... WTF over? I bet you're fun at a party. Did you write that book named "How to make friends and influence people"? Yea, I didn't think so. I hope you were just kidding around or something.

Whatever duude , but you sound like a butthurt brat from GZ, so lame and 1999! Indeed wrote a book: How to make friends at Moog parties saying everything is awesome. Millkshake said above MoogOne sounded "meh" gives you an splendid opportunity to whine and complain!
Dave Peck wrote:

Hmmm I think you may have misunderstood the process I was describing...

Perhaps!
Quote:
For example, I have a synth pad part that requires six voices to play two-handed six note chords. I have a different synth pad sound, playing a different part, that requires seven voices. A third sound / part that requires five voices. There's no way to do that on an eight voice polysynth unless I record the parts/sounds one at a time - which results in a total of eighteen voices (6+7+5) playing three different parts at the same time. That's ten more voices than what is actually available in the synth's hardware. And that's just three recorded tracks in the DAW project.

I dont see why that would be a problem! If your synth as you described have 64, 128 etc voices your home at one take. Point is noone tries to do your setup to on a 8 voice machine to begin with. Secondly you describes a multitimbral synth, how are you suposed to do all that unless its multitibral was my point.
Quote:
Not sure where you're getting the idea about 64 snares.... But even with drum sounds, a difference in musical style can make a big difference in the polyphony requirements needed to play the drum part. For example, the music I make tends to use drum sounds like the huge drum hits at the beginning of this track, and again at about the 1:10 mark:

The point was first you asked folks opinion , got many resonable examples the rejected the whole multitimbral idea while describing said multitimbral synth!.
Quote:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI0qBslpmXs

Video not available!
Quote:
.....and these are often done by playing a big cluster of notes on the keyboard that eat up many voices on each drum hit. Add a few more different drum sounds, each requiring four to eight voices per hit, and the only way to do that on an eight voice polysynth is to record the parts separately. Multitimbral capability won't help. It just drastically reduces the polyphony available for each part, same problem as with the three pad sounds.

You obviously cant play more voices then the synth provides whether is in hardware or software limits that dictates.
Quote:
I guess the point is that I wouldn't be put off from buying an eight voice polysynth that sounded great and had a deep voice architecture just because it was only three-way multitimbral. I can see that other people DO prefer to rely on multitimbral capability rather than using the process I use, but it's not accurate to say that there is "no limit" involved in doing so - there is a BIG limit - the limit is eight voices total at any point in the music when you do it that way.

Multitimbral is always good to have rather then not particularly if you have lots of voices. And you cant do analog drum sets unless you have it, was my point. So making Moog One multitibral is a "sales" argument.
percussion boy
Wow. i left Gearslutz to avoid pages of meaningless arguments. As soon as i get to Muff, it turns into pages of meaningless arguments.

Maybe it’s me. eek!
Panason
There will be less pointless arguing if people get what Moog are about: They're about making and selling a luxury keyboard synth, for affluent/professional keyboard synth players. Synthesists and producers using sequencers are not their primary target market. They are better served elsewhere i.e. DSI and Waldorf, for keyboard polysynths.

It' a luxury item and must carry a high price to be luxury.
One could get 16 Boogs and a decent used car with the 8 grand!
The Agonizer!
Gizmo
Dcramer
hihi
Of god...this thread...

Really though, I’ve enjoyed the way Moog has rolled this out; having the patchmakers talk through their work has been a great way to dig into the guts of the machine (yeah Suit! love )

An aspect of the Moog One that hasn’t been explored much but that I would expect will be a hit with Modular users is the CV expandibility. woah

I can just imagine playing the One over top of a modular sequence patch all while correlated CZs are modulating the keyboard and modules together. hyper
tehyar
percussion boy wrote:
Wow. i left Gearslutz to avoid pages of meaningless arguments. As soon as i get to Muff, it turns into pages of meaningless arguments.

Maybe it’s me. eek!


Nah, it's not. And you shouldn't judge the whole community by a few. The ratio is a lot smaller here.

Entertaining fact: I have only three users on my ignore list, and entire pages of threads have disappeared. eek!
Gizmo
Dcramer wrote:
An aspect of the Moog One that hasn’t been explored much but that I would expect will be a hit with Modular users is the CV expandibility. woah

Yeah, I am counting on this but waiting for more information. One of the Moog techs said that the four CV outputs are scalable and assignable. I suppose four 1V/oct output "voices" would be possible with the CV outputs if combined with (maybe) MIDI gating and control. Less than four if you need CV outs for velocity, modulation etc. Likewise, the two inputs.
GovernorSilver
tehyar wrote:
percussion boy wrote:
Wow. i left Gearslutz to avoid pages of meaningless arguments. As soon as i get to Muff, it turns into pages of meaningless arguments.

Maybe it’s me. eek!


Nah, it's not. And you shouldn't judge the whole community by a few. The ratio is a lot smaller here.

Entertaining fact: I have only three users on my ignore list, and entire pages of threads have disappeared. eek!


I'll try that as an experiment. Wouldn't be surprised if I saw a similar noise reduction.
dubonaire
Dcramer wrote:
Really though, I’ve enjoyed the way Moog has rolled this out; having the patchmakers talk through their work has been a great way to dig into the guts of the machine (yeah Suit! love )

An aspect of the Moog One that hasn’t been explored much but that I would expect will be a hit with Modular users is the CV expandibility. woah

I can just imagine playing the One over top of a modular sequence patch all while correlated CZs are modulating the keyboard and modules together. hyper


Yeah agree about the patchmaker videos, normally I find those tedious but these are good.

Yes interesting re the CV, especially the way Moog has set up its modulation matrix.
Dave Peck
brokensolderingiron wrote:
I dont see why that would be a problem! If your synth as you described have 64, 128 etc voices your home at one take. Point is noone tries to do your setup to on a 8 voice machine to begin with. Secondly you describes a multitimbral synth, how are you suposed to do all that unless its multitibral was my point....
Multitimbral is always good to have rather then not particularly if you have lots of voices. And you cant do analog drum sets unless you have it, was my point. So making Moog One multitibral is a "sales" argument.


We really do seem to be having two different conversations here ... seriously, i just don't get it

We're not discussing synths with 64 or 128 voices, we're discussing an eight voice polysynth. Some people here were saying they were disappointed in the One because it is three-way multitimbral and not eight -way multitimbral. And to me, that seems like a curious reason to not be interested in an eight voice synth.

Yes, we agree, multitimbral is good, certainly better than not having it. The question was why would someone consider three-way mutitimbral instead of eight way mutitimbral to be a serious shortcoming on an eight voice synth? That's all.

Really looking forward to playing one of these. I hope I don't have to wait until NAMM in January.
anselmi
nectarios wrote:
anselmi wrote:
milkshake wrote:
Moog one: Loads of possibilities, great.

Raw sound, meh. (judging from all the youtube vids) GAS gone.


it sounds "very good" of course...or even "great" if you want, but...I expected more...something amazing for the feature set and price

I mean, the first sound on this video impressed me more than the One demos...and it`s a VERY simple sound, but the audio is so gorgeous



yeah, this Prophet 5 has effects on it but the One has effects too, so I think it´s a fair comparison...or maybe until I hear the One in the flesh

Maybe I`d have to wait for the Kijimi...or just buy a second hand P6...and save a lot of money in my "next polysynth" budget


Well, you are comparing one of the best sounding synths of all time that was made in a different era, with a modern Moog.

I agree with you (from what I have herd so far anyway) but these are quite different sounding synths and its down to taste really.


yes, they are...but I´m not talking about comparing their specific sound in terms of similarity, but in the effect on the listener...of course this is highly subjective and some people could disagree. Based in my experience of listening to the Prophet 5, I expect the One to cause the same effect on me, with its own sound, of course, but until now it failed to impress me the same way.

I don´t care about the tech behind or terms like "modern" or "vintage", I´m just talking about breathtaking sound
percussion boy
tehyar wrote:
percussion boy wrote:
Wow. i left Gearslutz to avoid pages of meaningless arguments. As soon as i get to Muff, it turns into pages of meaningless arguments.

Maybe it’s me. eek!


Nah, it's not. And you shouldn't judge the whole community by a few. The ratio is a lot smaller here.

Entertaining fact: I have only three users on my ignore list, and entire pages of threads have disappeared. eek!


Ha!
Petur
Have anything been said about the physical inserts on the moog one? Routing possibilities, in terms of where in the signal path the signal is sent to the inserts etc? Is there any concrete info on this?
RickKleffel
...All this foofaraw about a poly Moog, and so little interest in what seems to me like a more unique and flexible flagship, the Quantum. Sure, if I had space and lots of cash, I'd have Moog One in a second. It is gorgeous and desirable and no doubt a quality synthesizer.

But not the end-all be-all that I am seeking. Because i want no end-all be-all!
Sinamsis
RickKleffel wrote:
...All this foofaraw about a poly Moog, and so little interest in what seems to me like a more unique and flexible flagship, the Quantum. Sure, if I had space and lots of cash, I'd have Moog One in a second. It is gorgeous and desirable and no doubt a quality synthesizer.

But not the end-all be-all that I am seeking. Because i want no end-all be-all!


Well, the Quantum has very little do with this thread. Personally I am interested. But I'm not really willing to take a leap of faith on Waldorf. Particularly with such a long time between announcement and release, I've partly lost interest until I see it in the wild. Moog on the other hand have released a ton of in depth videos (maybe I've missed these on the Quantum). But yeah, apples and oranges.
GovernorSilver
RickKleffel wrote:
...All this foofaraw about a poly Moog, and so little interest in what seems to me like a more unique and flexible flagship, the Quantum. Sure, if I had space and lots of cash, I'd have Moog One in a second. It is gorgeous and desirable and no doubt a quality synthesizer.

But not the end-all be-all that I am seeking. Because i want no end-all be-all!


Now that you mention it, there does not seem to be a thread for the Quantum. hmmm.....

I'm more an "immediate synth" type of synth user - not really the type who likes to sit in front of Omnisphere or other deep patching synth for days on end designing the perfect patch.. I'm sure Quantum appeals to exactly that type of user.
Sinamsis
GovernorSilver wrote:
RickKleffel wrote:
...All this foofaraw about a poly Moog, and so little interest in what seems to me like a more unique and flexible flagship, the Quantum. Sure, if I had space and lots of cash, I'd have Moog One in a second. It is gorgeous and desirable and no doubt a quality synthesizer.

But not the end-all be-all that I am seeking. Because i want no end-all be-all!


Now that you mention it, there does not seem to be a thread for the Quantum. hmmm.....


Sure there is:


https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179854&highlight=
GovernorSilver
I stand corrected. I was fooled by the lack of "Quantum" in the thread title.

Between that and the One, I'd be a lot more productive musically with the Moog. Perhaps others feel similarly, and hence the apparent greater interest.

Or it could be that this Moog is just the shinier new toy of the month for peeps to ogle.
mickeyziggyk
Hi

Does anyone know whether the power requirements are switchable 120/240 volts?
euxine
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Hi

Does anyone know whether the power requirements are switchable 120/240 volts?


I asked the moog service folks and they said the power brick is an international switching power supply; just need a different IEC cable. Nice touch! cool
mickeyziggyk
euxine wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Hi

Does anyone know whether the power requirements are switchable 120/240 volts?


I asked the moog service folks and they said the power brick is an international switching power supply; just need a different IEC cable. Nice touch! cool


Excellent, thank you.
mickeyziggyk
mickeyziggyk wrote:
euxine wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Hi

Does anyone know whether the power requirements are switchable 120/240 volts?


I asked the moog service folks and they said the power brick is an international switching power supply; just need a different IEC cable. Nice touch! cool


Excellent, thank you.


Which means for the price of a flight to the US, hypothetically, it may work out cheaper to buy one in the US (although for some reason electronics in Switzerland seem to be the cheapest in Europe). At 8000 USD, that is 6150 GBP.
flts
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Which means for the price of a flight to the US, hypothetically, it may work out cheaper to buy one in the US (although for some reason electronics in Switzerland seem to be the cheapest in Europe). At 8000 USD, that is 6150 GBP.


In that case it'd probably be the best to make sure that Moog honors warranty internationally and the warranty terms aren't worse for units bought in the US. for a 8000 USD device I wouldn't want to make another flight across the pond to get it repaired in case of malfunction.

(Full disclosure: I have absolutely zero idea how Moog handles warranty service in general, so this may not be a concern in the first place - just something to note in case one isn't familiar with the said manufacturer's policies beforehand)
mickeyziggyk
flts wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Which means for the price of a flight to the US, hypothetically, it may work out cheaper to buy one in the US (although for some reason electronics in Switzerland seem to be the cheapest in Europe). At 8000 USD, that is 6150 GBP.


In that case it'd probably be the best to make sure that Moog honors warranty internationally and the warranty terms aren't worse for units bought in the US. for a 8000 USD device I wouldn't want to make another flight across the pond to get it repaired in case of malfunction.


Agreed, maybe a flight to Toronto or Montreal instead then to shave an hour off from NYC wink
flts
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Agreed, maybe a flight to Toronto or Montreal instead then to shave an hour off from NYC wink


You seriously need to consider changing your forum name to "Jetset Modular" hihi
mickeyziggyk
flts wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Agreed, maybe a flight to Toronto or Montreal instead then to shave an hour off from NYC wink


You seriously need to consider changing your forum name to "Jetset Modular" hihi


Double whammy of going to NYC and buying a dream synth; it would be a pretty good Christmas present (although for that money I could buy a restored early 20th century Bluthner baby grand, a double bass and a decent drum kit and still have change). It is a lot of money. Imagine if you spilled a beer, tea or coffee on it (it does not bear thinking about); or dropped it d'oh!
mickeyziggyk
In terms of the feature set has anyone thought "that seems a bit like something Elektron and Sequential/DSI have done"?

I am reminded of Elektron A4 and DSI Prophet 08 features, e.g. fading LFOs in every Elektron product, Prophet 08 4 LFOs (not exactly a unique feature, but it reminded me of the Prophet 08).
matthewjuran
New livestream:
euxine
mickeyziggyk wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
euxine wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Hi

Does anyone know whether the power requirements are switchable 120/240 volts?


I asked the moog service folks and they said the power brick is an international switching power supply; just need a different IEC cable. Nice touch! cool


Excellent, thank you.


Which means for the price of a flight to the US, hypothetically, it may work out cheaper to buy one in the US (although for some reason electronics in Switzerland seem to be the cheapest in Europe). At 8000 USD, that is 6150 GBP.


Very seriously thought about this. You could have it shipped to any UPS airport depot, giving you flexibility on tickets. But the thought of it getting killed in the plane hold made me sick. cry cry
Gizmo
matthewjuran wrote:
New livestream

Chat stream says "The Moog One manual will be posted to our website this week"
J3RK
matthewjuran wrote:
New livestream:


I think that's the most interesting one I've seen yet. Not in an audio sort of way, but plenty of interesting information.
brokensolderingiron
Panason wrote:
There will be less pointless arguing if people get what Moog are about: They're about making and selling a luxury keyboard synth, for affluent/professional keyboard synth players. Synthesists and producers using sequencers are not their primary target market. They are better served elsewhere i.e. DSI and Waldorf, for keyboard polysynths.
It' a luxury item and must carry a high price to be luxury. [i]One could get 16 Boogs and a decent used car with the 8 grand!

This you noted is very interesting im glad you did , are the MoogOne a luxury item or not? Some say it is and expensive, other say its not and affordable or even cheap for what it delivers therefor not a luxury item. Some folks are not affluent pro keyboardists just merely a rich surgeon who want bling the guests at his neighborhood garden party , sorta expose of his social status. Are 2 Quantums less luxury then one MoogOne? Is Schmidth more luxurious then luxurious MoogOne?
umma gumma
luxury schmuxery, really....I suppose some people are concerned about whether stuff they own has some sort of status?

I'm really impressed by the thorough demos and explanations. STG that was great, nice job!

Hell I may not be able to afford it, but I am glad it exists, and am glad they had the temerity to build it.
dubonaire
umma gumma wrote:
luxury schmuxery, really....I suppose some people are concerned about whether stuff they own has some sort of status?

I'm really impressed by the thorough demos and explanations. STG that was great, nice job!

Hell I may not be able to afford it, but I am glad it exists, and am glad they had the temerity to build it.


I totally agree. In the context of musical instruments, this luxury stuff is nonsense. Many acoustic instruments cost much much more. In the context of global average wages, all of this stuff is a luxury.

Agree with your other comments too.
Spackfiller
Very expensive but certainly great for some people
Spackfiller
Second post to start a thread, sorry.
brokensolderingiron
Luxury some say is relative to the poor! Some say MoogOne is like TopGear test of Ferrari v.s Konigsegg i.e Clarksson in smug!

smug
Muzone
dubonaire wrote:

I totally agree. In the context of musical instruments, this luxury stuff is nonsense. Many acoustic instruments cost much much more.


Spot on!
As far as musical instruments go synths are "cheap", maybe those who think the Moog 1 is expensive are considering it in the context of gadgetry rather than musicality.
Not something I would buy, but even on a modest (western) salary you don't look at it and think "wow, I'd never be able to afford that"
brokensolderingiron
Muzone wrote:

Not something I would buy, but even on a modest (western) salary you don't look at it and think "wow, I'd never be able to afford that"

God lord what a generalisation! Try telling Romanian, Polish plumbers, Bulgarian , Baltic's etc even Americans who has 3 jobs just to survive! USA is at the moment is in political civil war while everybody else is trying to get rid of the fiatdollars. USA has nation debth of 21-23 trillion dollar that nobody knows where it went! (industrialmilitarycomplex, cant say it loud) UK is i very precary position not only by its Brexiting that seams to go nowhere but truck load of crap economic decisions. But ofcourse easy to say for you whos income comes from the "the Square Mile" area.
Dead Banana
Panason
umma gumma wrote:
I suppose some people are concerned about whether stuff they own has some sort of status?


They sure do! Don't underestimate the extent of human vanity... especially these days when you can show off your gear without leaving the comfort and security of your home.

Most Moog One buyers will likely have a watch and a car to match.
mickeyziggyk
euxine wrote:
mickeyziggyk wrote:
Hi

Does anyone know whether the power requirements are switchable 120/240 volts?


I asked the moog service folks and they said the power brick is an international switching power supply; just need a different IEC cable. Nice touch! cool


I had this confirmed by Moog too (I asked Moog directly before posting here).
bkbirge
Panason wrote:
umma gumma wrote:
I suppose some people are concerned about whether stuff they own has some sort of status?


They sure do! Don't underestimate the extent of human vanity... especially these days when you can show off your gear without leaving the comfort and security of your home.

Most Moog One buyers will likely have a watch and a car to match.


I only buy cars that come with spare synthesizers. There really is no other fiscally responsible choice.
Muzone
brokensolderingiron wrote:
But of course easy to say for you whos income comes from the "the Square Mile" area.
Dead Banana


Nope, I'm an average salary public sector worker but still regard 8k as a budgetable outlay- perhaps try taking your generalisations elsewhere........
Gizmo
Panason wrote:
Most Moog One buyers will likely have a watch and a car to match.

Aww. Only the watch and car? You didn't mention the houses, the studio and the wife.
mickeyziggyk
bkbirge wrote:
Panason wrote:
umma gumma wrote:
I suppose some people are concerned about whether stuff they own has some sort of status?


They sure do! Don't underestimate the extent of human vanity... especially these days when you can show off your gear without leaving the comfort and security of your home.

Most Moog One buyers will likely have a watch and a car to match.


I only buy cars that come with spare synthesizers. There really is no other fiscally responsible choice.


Why has no one done that?

The Synth and Car Showroom.

Dodge Viper with an OB-6?
Prius and OP-1?
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
Most Moog One buyers will likely have a watch and a car to match.


I dunno man, would look good on you.

brokensolderingiron
Muzone wrote:
Nope, I'm an average salary public sector worker but still regard 8k as a budgetable outlay

Ah! so you some one of the inner-circle of T May! lol
Sinamsis
Ha, this thread has devolved into total fucking nonsense at this point. On a bright note, I just got a call from Sweetwater. The One's are in stock and ready to ship. Sadly I have to delay mine for a week because I'm leaving for a business trip. But I should have it by next Wednesday or Thursday.

As an aside, the commentary about what watches people wear and the cars they drive is absolutely fucking ridiculous. I hope if you're dropping $8k on a synth, you're in a position to own a decent car if you so choose, or a decent watch, again if you so choose. Clearly the peanut gallery views all these things as status symbols. Personally, I do drive a German luxury vehicle, and I do own a decent watch. Neither are particularly flashy. And I worked very hard for both. My vehicle has advanced safety features and has top scores across the board. It protects my family, and at least once a week it takes me several hours out of town to take care of patients who would otherwise not have access to the services I provide. This was purchased after my Civic's hood flipped up and smashed my windshield as I was driving with my wife on the highway, because the hood was secured to a shitty plastic part. I actually drove that shitty Civic for another year or two (even after I got T boned and had the driver side door pushed in to the point that the window couldn't go down and every time it rained water would slowly start dripping into the car). But then my wife got pregnant and she put her foot down. And I actually just bought my first "adult" watch which I'll eventually pass on to my children or grandchildren, as my grandfather passed his watch on to me when he passed. So really none of these are status symbols to me.

Anyways, my point is, it's really you jokers that make these status symbols, not me. And you really look like judgmental pricks. How anyone chooses to spend their hard earned money is really none of your fucking business. And to presume that you have any clue why one might make the decision to spend their hard earned dollars on a watch, or a car or a synthesizer shows how ignorant you really are.
mmp
What he said. applause
electricfence
Sinamsis wrote:
On a bright note, I just got a call from Sweetwater.


I'm pretty excited that these are shipping to customers. I went to the Moog factory today in the hopes of seeing one in their showroom, but they don't yet have it there. The salesperson told me that (as I understood it) they'll be prioritizing shipping out existing orders before they bring a demo model into the showroom. But they let me play their Model D and their Voyager and, well, I was just too shy to ask to tweak the Emerson modular system they have on display.
dubonaire
Sinamsis wrote:
As an aside, the commentary about what watches people wear and the cars they drive is absolutely fucking ridiculous.


It's just ignorant, especially when you consider Steinway grand pianos start at $150k.
SynthBaron
Accounting for inflation, the Voyager cost $4900 in today's dollars when it was released in 2002.

7 more voices for $1100 more? Seems like a no-brainer.
lisa
dubonaire wrote:
Steinway grand pianos start at $150k.

How is that relevant? Are you saying that the Moog One should cost $150k and/or that the Moog One is a grand piano?

A Seawolf submarine cost around 3 billion dollars so a Steinway grand piano is really cheap, I guess? seriously, i just don't get it wink
dubonaire
lisa wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
Steinway grand pianos start at $150k.

How is that relevant? Are you saying that the Moog One should cost $150k and/or that the Moog One is a grand piano?

A Seawolf submarine cost around 3 billion dollars so a Steinway grand piano is really cheap, I guess? seriously, i just don't get it wink


One of those three things is not a musical instrument.
lisa
Aah, so the price of all musical instruments could and should be compared to the price of a Stradivarius violin? Anything short of $16 million is a bargain? w00t
flts
^-

If you read the discussion a bit backwards, I think the point is that claiming / insinuating that anyone buying a Moog One is buying it as a status symbol is somewhat ridiculous, as $8k isn't that much money when we talk eg. about professional musical instruments in general (especially larger acoustic ones). It's just a lot of money compared to what people are used to paying for a synthesizer (these days, when even expensive synthesizers don't cost the "price of a truck").

So no, the point is not that all musical instrument prices should be compared to a Stradivarius. The point is that people with no Lexus, no golden watch and no desire to have "status symbols" around routinely purchase much more expensive musical instruments than the Moog One. Usually because it's somehow relevant to their profession, of course, I don't know of many hobbyists who have even a measly $15k cello "Made In Cremona".

(FWIW, the most expensive synth I own cost me about $6-7k total and to some has much less expressive power than the One, to some more. I do live in a house instead of an apartment, but I don't have a car nor a watch, not even a particularly expensive smartphone, I have a mortgage and a synth instead)

As an aside, sometimes I still feel a bit hopeful for increase in synthesis discussion and equal decrease of synthesizer commerce discussion. Somehow it seems all people do is argue about which manufacturer sucks and which rocks, how much things should cost and why / why not. Not forgetting about vintage prices and how vintage is better / worse than modern categorically.

(I know there's a lot of interesting discussion happening about the "substance" of the matter as well, it just seems the signal to noise ratio gets worse and worse...)
Muzone
The point I was trying to make, before being branded as some capitalist lackey &/or political stooge, was that we as synthesists are remarkably lucky in that the price range of our instruments is small compared to other musicians.
Panason
Fun times. Nobody here yet has a One and there are no reviews either (?) so there is not much "serious" discussion to be done just yet...

When I mentioned cars and watches I didn't mean it in a negative way so need to get defensive up there meh

Luxury brands exist and people are vein (poor or rich). Moog isn't the ultimate luxury brand in the synth world but they are not "budget" either and the One is their most luxury product currently... They could have released the same sound engine without wood, with a smaller black & white screen etc etc.

Anyway that SVF filter is the most interesting thing there for me (the trad Moog ladder filer is getting oooold) and it would be nice to see it in a desktop box. Maybe they can add it to the Subharmonicon - that would be something.
flts
Panason wrote:
Fun times. Nobody here yet has a One and there are no reviews either (?) so there is not much "serious" discussion to be done just yet...


It just feels more and more boring to go through dozens of pages of people having definite and strong opinions about a synth that, as you say, nobody has yet and there are no reviews of - to find among a lot of negativity, bickering, debates about financial issues, marketing and company image, "omg this rolz / sux" type non-information etc., a couple of interesting "subthreads" of actual discussion about the unit itself and what's known about it.

Eg. sometimes I wish that if people didn't actually have anything interesting to bring to table, they would be content to not just comment because it's easy to comment on the internet and hey I have an opinion and lol Moog.

But I digress, sorry for bringing more noise to the thread myself. I sometimes try to read and take part in these discussions and realize that they're fun for others, just not for me.
jam457
Muzone wrote:

Spot on!
As far as musical instruments go synths are "cheap", maybe those who think the Moog 1 is expensive are considering it in the context of gadgetry rather than musicality.
Not something I would buy, but even on a modest (western) salary you don't look at it and think "wow, I'd never be able to afford that"


I do understand what u mean and think you are partially right about the possibility to budget...but also a modest western salary is around 20-25 thousand dollars a year before expenses, a vast percentage of people dont really make much more than that, take away about 15 thousand just for rent, groceries, bills and buying something like this becomes pretty much impossible...

I guess it might still possible to borrow money to buy it or something? Also I guess it explains why having access to studios or places that can afford this gear is important.
Gizmo
Panason wrote:
When I mentioned cars and watches I didn't mean it in a negative way so need to get defensive up there

This is laughable.

As someone with over 6 posts per day -- every day, from your joining in February to today -- you should know well that ambiguous statements can be misinterpreted and that responsible forum posts need to be cognizant of, and take care to avoid, alternative interpretations. Furthermore, that you have this kind of time to devote to posting makes one wonder whether you are actually gigging, or rehearsing, or even working with your instruments at all.

At the risk of further polluting this otherwise great thread, below in disgust I document your posts exhibiting xenophobia / xenomisia so there is a record of your "contributions" to the discussion and your offense to many of us.

Panason - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=269
"Shoulda called it The Moog Index ... but it is America after all."

Panason - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=364
"Are we waving flags for mass murder yet? AMERICAAAAAAAAA !"

Panason - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=505
"USA is Number One. Air Force One, XBOX One, Moog One, you get the picture."

And one from a kindred spirit of yours.

brokensolderingiron - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=744
[long hateful rant dismissive of the United States and the UK]
jam457
flts wrote:
......
(I know there's a lot of interesting discussion happening about the "substance" of the matter as well, it just seems the signal to noise ratio gets worse and worse...)


The "substance" of the matter is not just the synthesizer itself, it doesnt just exist in a vacuum....Everyone is always complaining on different threads that they wish it was just about the gear, be it the behringer vs moog, chinese manufacturing, expensive/worth it, etc etc....

I kind of think all these external discussions that go beyond features are actually way more interesting then just purely technical ones...
Panason
Gizmo wrote:

This is laughable.


Good, I'm laughing too. I can do 10 posts a day no problem! Of course you are free to quote out of context too.
Carrousel
Gizmo wrote:
Panason wrote:
When I mentioned cars and watches I didn't mean it in a negative way so need to get defensive up there

This is laughable.

As someone with over 6 posts per day -- every day, from your joining in February to today -- you should know well that ambiguous statements can be misinterpreted and that responsible forum posts need to be cognizant of, and take care to avoid, alternative interpretations. Furthermore, that you have this kind of time to devote to posting makes one wonder whether you are actually gigging, or rehearsing, or even working with your instruments at all.

At the risk of further polluting this otherwise great thread, below in disgust I document your posts exhibiting xenophobia / xenomisia so there is a record of your "contributions" to the discussion and your offense to many of us.

Panason - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=269
"Shoulda called it The Moog Index ... but it is America after all."

Panason - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=364
"Are we waving flags for mass murder yet? AMERICAAAAAAAAA !"

Panason - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=505
"USA is Number One. Air Force One, XBOX One, Moog One, you get the picture."

And one from a kindred spirit of yours.

brokensolderingiron - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203268&start=744
[long hateful rant dismissive of the United States and the UK]


Panason posts a load of nonsense fairly often, I agree with that.....but there’s nothing in any of those quoted examples even remotely resembling xenophobia or xenomisia. As far as I can tell, he’s obliquely criticising the American state. That might encroach on the ‘no politics’ rule, but xenophobia it ain’t. In fact it’s probably the xenophobic policies of the current US government which are drawing this criticism, from Panason and everyone else in the world who’s pissed off at what they do.

Sorry for detailing thread and mentioning politics. Just don’t want state criticism being labelled as xenophobia.
brokensolderingiron
Sinamsis wrote:
brokensolderingiron
Your initial posts were actually pretty insightful but the past few pages you've been out in left field. I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say or how it pertains the topic at hand. The fact that you repeatedly use the words "butt hurt" on several occasions speaks volumes. Mind you, I do believe it was you, but it seems posts have been edited so forgive me if I'm wrong.

lisa
You clearly have a chip on your shoulder for some reason. Usually I ignore most of your posts, some are constructive, but in this thread you have literally contributed nothing. Specifically, hand crafted items come at a cost. Hence the comment regarding cost of hand crafted acoustic instruments is valid. While this synthesizer probably doesn't involve nearly the work of hand assembling a grand piano, and some parts are assembled over seas, there is still some work involved in final assembly in the US, which does come at a cost.

panason
Ha, you seem to piss a lot of people off. Initially I found your posts very frustrating as well. At this point I find them amusing. You're just another of the MW characters (I don't mean that in a bad way). But you're wrong in your assumptions about luxury items and status symbols, sorry. You've said some other shit here that doesn't fly in my book as well. Shaming someone for their military service is one. That said I don't find criticisms of the US government that offensive, but it is kind of picking the low lying fruit and does fall on the wrong side of the no politics rule.


Very generally speaking, this thread is a joke and I'll leave it at that. If you can't find something constructive to say about the VERY in depth role out and demonstrations that Moog has put forth then I don't know what to tell you. Just because units have not shipped yet (though they are shipping today, I'm sure), it doesn't mean that there is no information out there. Aside from the atrocious website, I think Moog has done a GREAT job of getting this thing out there, and proudly showing of their hard work. Ha, on that note, I suspect I won't bother with this thread anymore. I'll be busy enjoying my Moog One as of next week.

Trying to character assassinate others in a hateful rant only shows your own crappy character traits! How odd mods run your errands by enabling such behavior.
Panason
"long hateful rant"

brokensolderingiron
Hooray! Folks accusing other folks for being pricks while behaving as pricks themselves, Everything a rhetorical mess again! w00t
Gizmo wrote:

[long hateful rant dismissive of the United States and the UK]

No its not , loads of Americans barely survive, im showing "international compassion" while you hug the oligarchs acting butthurt and misogynistic for your fellow citizens circumstances while buying a Luxury overpriced MoogOne .

Now, where is the MoogOne manual Moog promised?!
brokensolderingiron
Dave Peck wrote:
Bob Borries wrote:


China is struggling to break into the U.S. music charts and is secretly adding computer chips into synths at Moog's Chinese Production facility. Why? To spy on talented song writers, steal our compositions, and deprive us of our natural body fluids. The LAN port is part of this sinister plan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-chi na-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies


I have no idea if something like this has really happened or not, but the description of HOW it was done in that article makes no sense. According to the article, agents impersonating employees from the American customer company instructed/brided/coerced the staff at the China CM to "implant" this extra surface mount component on the U.S.-bound motherboards.

It's not that simple. You would need to have access to the engineering source files for the bare boards and have a complete understanding of the schematic design of the boards (neither of which would likely be at the CM) and then have the ability to edit the Gerber files to redesign the board and add new traces to design the part into the product in some sensible and useful way, and update the SMT pick & place data to provide the SMT machines with instructions for where to put it on the board. Not to mention all of the supporting manufacturing documentation like Bill of Materials that would have to be modified so the part gets pulled from inventory and loaded onto the SMT machine, creating an entry for the new part in the main MRP/ERP software database that the CM uses to control all movement of parts into stock and through assembly, etc.

And who exactly would do all of this? The imposters? No, they wouldn't have any access to any of this. The staff at the CM? I don't see how they could possibly do all of that engineering revision work without any of them even once contacting any of their REAL, well-established technical contacts at the U.S. customer about any of this during any of their routine meetings and emails and bringing this to the attention of the U.S. company: 'Wait - You're making WHAT change to our motherboard design? Who authorized this?'.

If this story isn't just plain false, it's missing a lot of important explanation about exactly how it could even be possible for this to have happened.


While your analysis is correct assuming Bob Borries just sarcastically joked, not that the Chinese would'nt try to do it, But what are they going to do with all those country and westerns tunes?!
chipaudette
I vote that this thread get closed. When people start getting actual hands on experience, then a new thread can start. This thread has devolved too far.

Chip
flts
jam457 wrote:
The "substance" of the matter is not just the synthesizer itself, it doesnt just exist in a vacuum....Everyone is always complaining on different threads that they wish it was just about the gear, be it the behringer vs moog, chinese manufacturing, expensive/worth it, etc etc....

I kind of think all these external discussions that go beyond features are actually way more interesting then just purely technical ones...


Fair enough, as I assumed, I think my taste is just so different from the average poster on the forum and I shouldn't have complained because of that.

For the record, I didn't mean purely technical discussion about specific features of the synthesizer in hand would be the only relevant angle. It's just that it feels even the actual interesting discussion and constructive critique about the concept, the business / pricing structure, ethics of manufacturing, position in the market, legacy of the brand etc. are buried in pages and pages of petty bickering, negativity, "funny" pics and the same repeated personal opinions about eg. what is the only true and right price for this thing, is a clone or an original is better, which brands are cool and which are for kids and which are for lawyers, et cetera.

Which is still better than GS but I'd like to be able to expect something better for once.

Again, sorry for contributing to the noise, I'll try to shut up now.
jam457
flts wrote:
jam457 wrote:
The "substance" of the matter is not just the synthesizer itself, it doesnt just exist in a vacuum....Everyone is always complaining on different threads that they wish it was just about the gear, be it the behringer vs moog, chinese manufacturing, expensive/worth it, etc etc....

I kind of think all these external discussions that go beyond features are actually way more interesting then just purely technical ones...


Fair enough, as I assumed, I think my taste is just so different from the average poster on the forum and I shouldn't have complained because of that.

For the record, I didn't mean purely technical discussion about specific features of the synthesizer in hand would be the only relevant angle. It's just that it feels even the actual interesting discussion and constructive critique about the concept, the business / pricing structure, ethics of manufacturing, position in the market, legacy of the brand etc. are buried in pages and pages of petty bickering, negativity, "funny" pics and the same repeated personal opinions about eg. what is the only true and right price for this thing, is a clone or an original is better, which brands are cool and which are for kids and which are for lawyers, et cetera.

Which is still better than GS but I'd like to be able to expect something better for once.

Again, sorry for contributing to the noise, I'll try to shut up now.


I will just say this: I also partly agree with you as well the bickering can often be not so constructive or interesting! Okay I too will shut up smile
jam457
Okay also a quick question sorry if I missed this back in the thread somewhere: I am very curious about the "modulation" parameter in the sequencer...will this be similar to motion sequencing I guess? I am very curious to see how deeply this is implemented...I would hope every single parameter can be manipulated this way? Some people have mentioned only four LFOs but parameter sequencing would basically make this limitless no? I have never used any modern moog products but I enjoy that aspect of the minilogue but its annoying that you are limited to four parameters only...
Sinamsis
brokensolderingiron

Your initial posts were actually pretty insightful but the past few pages you've been out in left field. I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say or how it pertains the topic at hand. The fact that you repeatedly use the words "butt hurt" on several occasions speaks volumes. Mind you, I do believe it was you, but it seems posts have been edited so forgive me if I'm wrong.

lisa

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder for some reason. Usually I ignore most of your posts, some are constructive, but in this thread you have literally contributed nothing. Specifically, hand crafted items come at a cost. Hence the comment regarding cost of hand crafted acoustic instruments is valid. While this synthesizer probably doesn't involve nearly the work of hand assembling a grand piano, and some parts are assembled over seas, there is still some work involved in final assembly in the US, which does come at a cost.

panason

Ha, you seem to piss a lot of people off. Initially I found your posts very frustrating as well. At this point I find them amusing. You're just another of the MW characters (I don't mean that in a bad way). But you're wrong in your assumptions about luxury items and status symbols, sorry. You've said some other shit here that doesn't fly in my book as well. Shaming someone for their military service is one. That said I don't find criticisms of the US government that offensive, but it is kind of picking the low lying fruit and does fall on the wrong side of the no politics rule.


Very generally speaking, this thread is a joke and I'll leave it at that. If you can't find something constructive to say about the VERY in depth role out and demonstrations that Moog has put forth then I don't know what to tell you. Just because units have not shipped yet (though they are shipping today, I'm sure), it doesn't mean that there is no information out there. Aside from the atrocious website, I think Moog has done a GREAT job of getting this thing out there, and proudly showing of their hard work. Ha, on that note, I suspect I won't bother with this thread anymore. I'll be busy enjoying my Moog One as of next week.
matthewjuran
Here’s the next livestream, in progress:

I’m getting these from the YouTube recommended video feature, I don’t have any connection to Moog Music besides owning two of their products.
peripatitis
I guess i am a very traditional guy, but my question to moog is a simple one and it doesn't even require words to answer.
Do you have a sound sample that will take me by surprise and make me dream about the sounds/music I could make with it or will you continue with this mildly interesting infoblast?
euxine
peripatitis wrote:
I guess i am a very traditional guy, but my question to moog is a simple one and it doesn't even require words to answer.
Do you have a sound sample that will take me by surprise and make me dream about the sounds/music I could make with it or will you continue with this mildly interesting infoblast?


I totally agree with Amos that when you hear it in person, it's very different from the demos online. When I played it here, even in a noisy room, it had a lovely - and flexible - character.

Maybe time for some hi-res downloadable samples? Do any of the streaming services online use v high quality audio codecs/ bitrates?
gosh
@Peripatitis - we're spoiled by Kyma wink

I must say I think it sounds rather nice albeit not mind blowing. The knobby interface and three part nature don't help my GAS though.
Panason
Sinamsis wrote:
brokensolderingiron
You've said some other shit here that doesn't fly in my book as well.


I'm not a pacifist and not even really a "lefty" but designing aircraft weapons (and especially for the US military) and mentioning it in a synth forum isn't kosher in my book.
For what it's worth I think America is much preferable to the alternatives (Russia or China) but the USA's military history is beyond shameful.

[end of political footnote]
umma gumma
you know, I think I'm going to buy a Moog One....just to wear around my wrist: so I can brag about how rich & elite I am, and my social status

I may have a problem stuffing it into my ass, to preserve for my heirs in case anything goes wrong though

dubonaire
lisa wrote:
Aah, so the price of all musical instruments could and should be compared to the price of a Stradivarius violin? Anything short of $16 million is a bargain? w00t


The point which should be obvious even to you is in the taxonomy of status symbols an $8k synth barely rates a mention.
Bob Borries


As far as I can tell this is what is happening with the chips in the Moog One, please correct me if I'm wrong. With 3 different modulation sample rates 1 at full sample rate for FM'ing VCO's & VCF's, half sample rate for ENV's and the third? I don't know maybe key on messages?

It's just mind blowing to me that a super fast processor is dedicated to modulating the 2 voice cards each, when most other synths have only one doing everything (modulation, midi, in/out interface, control board knobs & usb).
paults
Quote:
I'm not a pacifist and not even really a "lefty" but designing aircraft weapons (and especially for the US military) and mentioning it in a synth forum isn't kosher in my book.


Turned off GPS and removed WiFi from your house yet? Sold your older Moogs (chocked FULL of mil-surplus parts)? Boycotting Buchla from now on (Don designed military aircraft controls for over 40 years for Boeing)?

Didn't think so.
peripatitis
gosh wrote:
@Peripatitis - we're spoiled by Kyma wink

I must say I think it sounds rather nice albeit not mind blowing. The knobby interface and three part nature don't help my GAS though.


True, difficult to be enthused after kyma smile
Angroc
How normal is a chip per voice? Is this how it's normally done? Sounds crazy powerful right?

paults wrote:


Turned off GPS and removed WiFi from your house yet? Sold your older Moogs (chocked FULL of mil-surplus parts)? Boycotting Buchla from now on (Don designed military aircraft controls for over 40 years for Boeing)?

Didn't think so.


I'd agree it feels weird when it's played off as a bragging point, though. I never knew Buchla worked on military aircraft until you mentioned it, I rather knew him as a synth maker. Just something to consider.
chipaudette
paults wrote:
Quote:
I'm not a pacifist and not even really a "lefty" but designing aircraft weapons (and especially for the US military) and mentioning it in a synth forum isn't kosher in my book.


Turned off GPS and removed WiFi from your house yet? Sold your older Moogs (chocked FULL of mil-surplus parts)? Boycotting Buchla from now on (Don designed military aircraft controls for over 40 years for Boeing)?

Didn't think so.


And both GPS and WiFi exist only because Marconi invented radio systems in the first place, but he was a self-proclaimed supporter of Fascist Italy (ie Mussolini). Oh, and GPS only exists because they could put that radio system in orbit, which was enabled by liquid-fueled rockets, which were made practical by Wernher von Braun in service to Hitler. So, by continuing to use GPS and WiFi are we declaring that we all support Hitler and fascism? No. Absurd argument.

Let's talk about synths instead.

[With that said, I would still choose to refrain from announcing to everyone on a silly synth forum about one's participation in a weapons development program...but that's because of OPSEC reasons, not politics. No sense making oneself a target of foreign intelligence operations. Keep yourself safe, man!]

Chip
oranginafiend
paults wrote:
Quote:
I'm not a pacifist and not even really a "lefty" but designing aircraft weapons (and especially for the US military) and mentioning it in a synth forum isn't kosher in my book.


Turned off GPS and removed WiFi from your house yet? Sold your older Moogs (chocked FULL of mil-surplus parts)? Boycotting Buchla from now on (Don designed military aircraft controls for over 40 years for Boeing)?

Didn't think so.


Are we at the point where we can't criticize the military-industrial complex unless we reject all the incidental technology its scientists and engineers have created? Not to mention that a quick research bender shows that wifi was not a military effort.

Also, Google searches of "Don Buchla Boeing", "Don Buchla aircraft", "Don Buchla military" pull up nothing. Do you have a source?

Also also, there's a HUGE difference in using spare parts to build something and designing aircraft weaponry.

I don't really get the attitude here. It feels bootlicky.
RickKleffel
Can we please just bring on the Nazis now?

There's the signpost up ahead... your next stop:

Dave Kendall
Re: The effects sections in the Moog One - I have quite likely missed it somewhere buried deep in this thread, but how is the effects allocation worked out for each of the 3 parts?

Does each section get its own dedicated FX engine(s), does each section draw from a pool of processing power, or is it done like the aux sends on a mixer with each section able to send to a global set of processors?


EDIT:
For anyone interested, the details are in the manual from page 96 onwards. Basically one effect is in series with each part, including a wet/dry mix, and there are up to two "master FX" which are fed by 2 SEND levels from each part - like aux sends on a Mixer.
Only one of the two available Master FX slots can have an Eventide effect - the other slot can choose from the standard FX list available to the 3 synth parts.

Of note is that the Master FX are configured as either dual mono effects, or a single stereo effect.

Link to the manual is 6 posts after this one.
paults
Quote:
Also, Google searches of "Don Buchla Boeing", "Don Buchla aircraft", "Don Buchla military" pull up nothing. Do you have a source?


OMG, are we at the point where if something isn't on a Google search result, it 'never happened'?

I only brought the point out because someone said that I "had never designed anything as expensive/complicated" as the Moog One. [shrug]. I've designed 100s of things. I just gave SPECIFIC examples. They just happened to be on military aircraft (which by default are "expensive"). There is no "bragging" ANY MORE THAN Moog "bragging" about 14,000 parts on 15 pc boards (which I think was a TERRIBLE thing to 'brag about').
sduck
Ok folks, let's stick to discussing the synth at hand.
oranginafiend
On topic: perfect amount of multitimbrality and expression. Can't wait to buy one next year.
paults
back on topic:

does the manual have specs for external power brick? Is it multi-voltage output (like +-18V)?
Paranormal Patroler
Seriously, if the next posts continue down this path this thread and any such thread related to Moog one gets locked and you can take your bickering elsewhere. Either discuss the synth or exercise your self restrain and superiority by not posting.
percussion boy
*Wandering naively through the happy woods*

So ... The manual is out.

https://api.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/2018-10/Moog_One_Manual_ 1.pdf
paults
Quote:
So ... The manual is out.


Well, so far the only reference to the power supply is:

a) uses a 'locking connector': OK, it's a 4-pin XLR
b) there is a reference to "19V'.

Once someone gets a unit, the rating will be one the brick (wattage/output voltages & currents). Please post photo of the brick label.
zengomi
paults wrote:
Quote:
So ... The manual is out.


Well, so far the only reference to the power supply is:

a) uses a 'locking connector': OK, it's a 4-pin XLR
b) there is a reference to "19V'.

Once someone gets a unit, the rating will be one the brick (wattage/output voltages & currents). Please post photo of the brick label.


Paul, what does "the rating will be one the the brick" mean?

EDIT: "one" should be "on".

\
matthewjuran
Next livestream starts in a few minutes:
brokensolderingiron
Bob Borries wrote:

As far as I can tell this is what is happening with the chips in the Moog One, please correct me if I'm wrong. With 3 different modulation sample rates 1 at full sample rate for FM'ing VCO's & VCF's, half sample rate for ENV's and the third? I don't know maybe key on messages?

It's just mind blowing to me that a super fast processor is dedicated to modulating the 2 voice cards each, when most other synths have only one doing everything (modulation, midi, in/out interface, control board knobs & usb).


Great flow diagram picture there! thumbs up
Most old used 2, one for keybed + panel , second for voice control but almost all new uses many MCUs , DSI for instance is also using 1 MCU per 2 voice in at least P12, P08, Tetra , Modal 002, etc its cheaper for over all design and if computing power is there you use it.

The full sampling rate (not mentioned what it is) said in videos is CV input , FM from VCO to VCF is analog full Bw.
paults
Quote:
Paul, what does "the rating will be one the the brick" mean?


Voltage and current of the output(s).
Panason
For those wanting to drool over the actual synth in person, various UK shops are having a Moog One day sometime next week. Funky Junk in London and GAK in Brighton (7th November for the latter) and one or two others.
tioJim
paults wrote:
Quote:
Paul, what does "the rating will be one the the brick" mean?


Voltage and current of the output(s).


The 'brick' being the power supply itself ... because this type are shaped like bricks (device > cable > brick > cable > plug > power grid) rather than a wall-wart (device > cable > wall-wart > power grid)
Synthmatic
tioJim wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Paul, what does "the rating will be one the the brick" mean?


Voltage and current of the output(s).


The 'brick' being the power supply itself ... because this type are shaped like bricks (device > cable > brick > cable > plug > power grid) rather than a wall-wart (device > cable > wall-wart > power grid)


Sometimes known as a “line lump”.
Sinamsis
tioJim
Synthmatic wrote:
tioJim wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Paul, what does "the rating will be one the the brick" mean?


Voltage and current of the output(s).


The 'brick' being the power supply itself ... because this type are shaped like bricks (device > cable > brick > cable > plug > power grid) rather than a wall-wart (device > cable > wall-wart > power grid)


Sometimes known as a “line lump”.


Yes that’s ... [sound of needle scratching across vinyl] ... hold the freaking front page, wtaf?! Rewind! The $8,000 Moog One has an external power supply? Is this an April fool?

I’m bewildered
calaveras
8.4 amps? That's a thirsty synth.

I'm going to have to add the cost of putting another breaker in here if I get that.
lol
euxine
tioJim wrote:
Synthmatic wrote:
tioJim wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Paul, what does "the rating will be one the the brick" mean?


Voltage and current of the output(s).


The 'brick' being the power supply itself ... because this type are shaped like bricks (device > cable > brick > cable > plug > power grid) rather than a wall-wart (device > cable > wall-wart > power grid)


Sometimes known as a “line lump”.


Yes that’s ... [sound of needle scratching across vinyl] ... hold the freaking front page, wtaf?! Rewind! The $8,000 Moog One has an external power supply? Is this an April fool?

I’m bewildered


You mean like nearly every modular synth in the world? hmmm.....
Personally, I'm happy to have it out of the chassis; can transport a little easier and can replace it a lot easier if ever needed.
tioJim
lolz

Come on, there’s virtually no scenario where an external power supply is preferable on an instrument of this type

Easily lost touring
Gets in the way of pedals
Multiple points of potential failure
Etc

I imagine there’s an engineering reason as Moog clearly made no moves to cut costs on the One
latigid on
    * less heat inside the chassis
    * less emitted EMI inside the chassis
    * instrument is a bit lighter
    * less regulatory effort to certify a known design of PSU, rather than do the whole synth
dubonaire
tioJim wrote:

Easily lost touring
Gets in the way of pedals
Multiple points of potential failure
Etc


Haha serious?

"Oh we can't go on stage tonight because we've lost the power supply." That happened never.

"I can't use the pedals because the power supply is in the way." I hear that all the time.

"The power supply has failed at multiple points so I can't use the synth."

Stop posting such ridiculous nonsense, please!
tioJim
latigid on wrote:
    * less heat inside the chassis
    * less emitted EMI inside the chassis
    * instrument is a bit lighter
    * less regulatory effort to certify a known design of PSU, rather than do the whole synth


Like I said, engineering reasons

It’s still a PITA!
tioJim
dubonaire wrote:
tioJim wrote:

Easily lost touring
Gets in the way of pedals
Multiple points of potential failure
Etc


Haha serious?

"Oh we can't go on stage tonight because we've lost the power supply." That happened never.

"I can't use the pedals because the power supply is in the way." I hear that all the time.

"The power supply has failed at multiple points so I can't use the synth."

Stop posting such ridiculous nonsense, please!


Haha. You don’t even know what day is
dubonaire
tioJim wrote:
latigid on wrote:
    * less heat inside the chassis
    * less emitted EMI inside the chassis
    * instrument is a bit lighter
    * less regulatory effort to certify a known design of PSU, rather than do the whole synth


Like I said, engineering reasons

It’s still a PITA!


Yeah, well feel free to not buy the synth because Moog cut costs by using an external power supply. I'm sure it is the defining aspect for you.
dubonaire
tioJim wrote:


Haha. You don’t even know what day is


What is day? Please tell me.
tioJim
Day is fan boys who can’t tolerate the slightest criticism of a synthesiser because for some reason they internalise it

External power supplies are a common bugbear for many people. It’s hardly controversial.

“Argh! You’ve said something bad about the Moog One! See how I froth at the mouth! Raaa! You must be ridiculed! My rudeness is justified! Gwaaah! You must die!”

Yawn
Panason
External PSUs are the suck for various reasons (they get lost, clutter etc), and were traditionally frowned upon on Sound On Sound reviews.

But... they do keep the device cooler, and are often easier to replace , and for that I prefer them.
Sinamsis
tioJim wrote:
Day is fan boys who can’t tolerate the slightest criticism of a synthesiser because for some reason they internalise it

External power supplies are a common bugbear for many people. It’s hardly controversial.

“Argh! You’ve said something bad about the Moog One! See how I froth at the mouth! Raaa! You must be ridiculed! My rudeness is justified! Gwaaah! You must die!”

Yawn


I don't think dubonaire is a fan boy. And it's funny how people's behavior changes between threads. And that is directed to you tioJim. I think the validity of your criticisms were questioned, and you internalized it. And I do think the external PSU IS indeed VERY controversial... there's constant debate in the eurorack world.

SPECIFICALLY, for this synth, I'm sure it's related to heat. It's also big AF, and heavy. Let's be honest, at $6-8k I don't think this is going to be a gigging synth for most people (aside from the previous fact, that it's really heavy). Not sure how an external PSU is going to get in the way of anything, the chords pretty long and you can put it where you want. Not sure what pedals you're talking about, but other than a sustain pedal or volume pedal, not sure what else you'd need with this thing, the built in effects are great.

Mainly, though I can almost certainly tell you it's for the heat. As it stands, there's a built in fan. The fan is fucking loud. When it starts, it's alarmingly loud if you don't expect it. Once that settles, it quiets down for a while, but starts humming again shortly after use. I think Moog are working on it. Ha, I can't imagine this has come to as any surprise. In hindsight, I remember a video or two where the presenter at Moog kept asking for the monitors to be turned up. He probably want to say "turn it up, I can't hear anything over this fucking fan!" Anyways, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it certainly is noticeable.

Otherwise I've refrained from posting in this thread as it's really devolved into nonsense. I've posted a brief review on the GS thread from my limited time with the One. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of nonsense in that thread too. But surprisingly, from what I've seen, people are being bigger dicks here. Ha, congrats.
BugBrand
calaveras wrote:
8.4 amps? That's a thirsty synth.

I'm going to have to add the cost of putting another breaker in here if I get that.
:lol:


Without getting involved in the other discussions - the mains draw is max 2.2A (the 8.4A is at 19V DC output).
Panason
The entire top half of the back of the thing is a mesh, so it is most likely heat related.
Quote:

As it stands, there's a built in fan. The fan is fucking loud. When it starts, it's alarmingly loud if you don't expect it. Once that settles, it quiets down for a while, but starts humming again shortly after use.


Damn, there is no way I'd be OK with that. Fan noise just fries my head.
Sinamsis
Panason wrote:
The entire top half of the back of the thing is a mesh, so it is most likely heat related.
Quote:

As it stands, there's a built in fan. The fan is fucking loud. When it starts, it's alarmingly loud if you don't expect it. Once that settles, it quiets down for a while, but starts humming again shortly after use.


Damn, there is no way I'd be OK with that. Fan noise just fries my head.


Moog is working on it. I think it will be addressed. I am surprised that they thought it would fly, but I guess they had bigger fish to fry. And yeah, the mesh definitely can feel warm to the touch. Not hot. But you can definitely tell that it's there to help allow heat to escape.
euxine
On another note, has anyone (aside from Sinamasis) had their Moog One delivered? I'd love to hear more impressions of what it's like once in the studio.

Eventually, it would be great to trade modulation ideas, etc. but seems we'll need to wait a bit for deliveries to take place. cool
dubonaire
tioJim wrote:
Day is fan boys who can’t tolerate the slightest criticism of a synthesiser because for some reason they internalise it

External power supplies are a common bugbear for many people. It’s hardly controversial.

“Argh! You’ve said something bad about the Moog One! See how I froth at the mouth! Raaa! You must be ridiculed! My rudeness is justified! Gwaaah! You must die!”

Yawn


No I couldn't care less about that, I'm not a Moog fanboy. I know a lot of people get annoyed by external power supplies. Wall warts sometimes annoy me because they can be difficult to fit on a power board and don't sit as well as plugs but it's seriously no big deal. It's just typical online nitpicking. I think the reasons you gave are ridiculous.
paults
Quote:
they do keep the device cooler, and are often easier to replace , and for that I prefer them.


No, and HELL NO in this instance. This is a full custom supply, with a custom cord. If you are lucky, the replacement will only be $129.

BTW: it has 7 fans in it, not 'a fan'.

The ONLY reason it's external is to bypass UL/CE registration. But hmmm...when I designed the MG-1 power supply in 1981, it's internal. We paid for UL/FCC registration. it's called "part of doing business".

The irony is: it's 10x EASIER to pass UL/CE today that 20-30 years ago, when using internal supplies. What you do, is buy pre-registered, enclosed supplies, the proper UL VW-1 94-VO rated 600V wire, and a UL registered power inlet/fuse holder. Slap on some heat shrink and done. Yes, you still have to PAY and submit paperwork, but it's NOT THE SAME as building a supply "from scratch" like in the old days.

It's being cheap and lazy and not thinking about the customer first but yourself (Moog) first.

Protip: if you want to keep things 'cooler', stop putting quad-core Linux computers with 14,000 parts in a synth.
Sinamsis
paults wrote:

No, and HELL NO in this instance. This is a full custom supply, with a custom cord. If you are lucky, the replacement will only be $129.


Yeah. I'd rather pay for the proprietary external PSU than have to ship this synth. Also it sounds pretty good so far, so they are doing some things right.
ThinLazy
tioJim wrote:
Day is fan boys who can’t tolerate the slightest criticism of a synthesiser because for some reason they internalise it

External power supplies are a common bugbear for many people. It’s hardly controversial.

“Argh! You’ve said something bad about the Moog One! See how I froth at the mouth! Raaa! You must be ridiculed! My rudeness is justified! Gwaaah! You must die!”

Yawn


What is this Gearslutz now, haha
stickmann
paults wrote:
Quote:
they do keep the device cooler, and are often easier to replace , and for that I prefer them.


No, and HELL NO in this instance.


Can you explain how an internal power supply would not generate any additional heat if housed in the same cabinet as the rest of the components? Or were you answering 'No' to easier to replace and 'HELL NO' to I prefer them?
paults
Because they are switchers, and in fact, I will make a case (so to speak) that external supplies are less efficient, without PFC - power factor correction (Google is your friend).

Whereas internal supplies have MANY more options, can have DSP-based PFC. Which make less heat.

Really, the Moog One has ***SEVEN FANS ALREADY***. Something tells me Moog isn't employing the right folks that understand thermal management.
Kept Walking
Refrained from posting until now. Got my one in, absolutely love it. Hear folks complaining about the fans, but if I had a studio somewhere in the midwest or south that stayed hot, I would love the extra fans. The power supply I got no clue how that is a problem. 90% of my gear has cords like that, why is that such a big deal?

I wont argue or fight, this thread has enough of that.

It sounds great, I love programming patches on it. The layout is a joy to work with.

My studio is generally cooler than most, so I never have thermal issues with the One.

I love sound synthesis, I thought we all did.

Apparently we love measuring our internet dicks more.

Im a new member to the forum in regards to time, but its quite shitty to see the devolving of threads here. Ive used muff for years for info. Why cant we all just talk synthesis, sound design, and enjoy our common hobby.

Its a shame folks need to prove themselves, when they already have technically by even being around and wanting to learn more or explore more sonically.

Cheers and much love everyone, keep it classy eh?
stickmann
paults wrote:
Because they are switchers, and in fact, I will make a case (so to speak) that external supplies are less efficient, without PFC - power factor correction (Google is your friend).

Whereas internal supplies have MANY more options, can have DSP-based PFC. Which make less heat.


So an external SMPS can't implement passive or active PFC methods?

I think the suggestion is not that the external PSU is cooler, but that the inside of the synth stays cooler because of less power dissipated inside the enclosure.

Or am I misunderstanding and something like the lower crest factor or less stable average power going into the synth have an impact on the amount of heat dissipation within the enclosure components?
dubonaire
paults wrote:
Quote:
they do keep the device cooler, and are often easier to replace , and for that I prefer them.


No, and HELL NO in this instance. This is a full custom supply, with a custom cord. If you are lucky, the replacement will only be $129.

BTW: it has 7 fans in it, not 'a fan'.

The ONLY reason it's external is to bypass UL/CE registration. But hmmm...when I designed the MG-1 power supply in 1981, it's internal. We paid for UL/FCC registration. it's called "part of doing business".

The irony is: it's 10x EASIER to pass UL/CE today that 20-30 years ago, when using internal supplies. What you do, is buy pre-registered, enclosed supplies, the proper UL VW-1 94-VO rated 600V wire, and a UL registered power inlet/fuse holder. Slap on some heat shrink and done. Yes, you still have to PAY and submit paperwork, but it's NOT THE SAME as building a supply "from scratch" like in the old days.

It's being cheap and lazy and not thinking about the customer first but yourself (Moog) first.

Protip: if you want to keep things 'cooler', stop putting quad-core Linux computers with 14,000 parts in a synth.


What's your point Paul? Maybe Moog would have been smarter to get everyone to pay for it upfront before it made the synth, like you did for a much simpler module. That would be putting itself first, right? Transferring all risk to the consumer.

It shits me to tears that someone like you dumps on a company for taking a chance to build something special. A similar risk you transferred to your customers. Why don't you build a fully fledged poly synth? Otherwise shut the fuck up. I am not invested in Moog at all and I have modules of yours that I like but I don't get this lame I'm a better tech than you posturing. In my opinion it makes you out to be puerile.
euxine
Dead thread. Dead Banana
flts
paults wrote:
No, and HELL NO in this instance. This is a full custom supply, with a custom cord. If you are lucky, the replacement will only be $129.


I wouldn't say full custom based on quick google search with P/Ns - rather off the shelf with possible customer specific modifications:

MDS160T-P190 https://www.megaelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/MEGA-POWER- SUPPLY-CATALOG-2016.pdf
ATS160T-P190: https://www.dehner.net/documents/ats160t.pdf

(Not entirely sure about the cord though, the stock model seems to have one of those 4 pin mini DIN type ones, no idea what kind of connector the One has)
paults
Quote:
I wouldn't say full custom based on quick google search with P/Ns - rather off the shelf with possible customer specific modifications


It uses a 4-pin XLR connector, which in and of itself is "abuse" of good engineering practice (using a connector designed for audio and a power connector. There are 100s of suitable DC power connector solutions.)

Quote:
So an external SMPS can't implement passive or active PFC methods?


Sure they can, but I've never seen them and the datasheet for the Moog one does not state that it has it.. It's about cost only. Things like efficiency and ripple/noise are sacrificed for cost.

Quote:
I think the suggestion is not that the external PSU is cooler, but that the inside of the synth stays cooler because of less power dissipated inside the enclosure.


This is the 'beauty of the Internet', where speculation and opinion are somehow equivalent to years and years of actual knowledge.

If the Moog One needs 7 fans in a fully perforated cabinet to "stay cool" now, what would be the added contribution of an internal supply? Does the temperature go up 1C or 20C? Maybe not design a 165W synth to start with? My Synergy's had a 145W switcher with 1 fan, and it stayed cool inside with 1980 tech ICs in there.

The main 'issue' is a common one in ID (industrial design): starting with a 'look' of the product (in this instance a homage to the Memory Moog), as shown by Axel Hartmann sketches. Then the electrical/mechanical designed have to 'cram' everything in there. Every volumetric space matters, and they are in opposition. ID wants a 'sleeker, modern' look. The product needs to be bigger to allow air flow, and this adds weight/cost. It's a typical product cycle thing.

Look at the Synthclavier as the extreme example. What you 'see' is the pretty cool keyboard with the B-52 lighted switches (yes, they are off a B-52). But the 'guts' are 10-20 feet away in a closet because it's huge and has like 8 large fans because it dissipates more heat than your BBQ cooking a dinner for 16.

I seriously doubt having the supply inside was a 'thermal management decision', it was a "cheap and easy path to UL/CE approval" which is why there are these supplies everywhere now.

Quote:
It shits me to tears that someone like you dumps on a company for taking a chance to build something special. A similar risk you transferred to your customers.


Not sure what your point here is.

Moog doesn't get a 'pass' JUST BECAUSE they are Moog. What I saw/am seeing pains me to no end. I am not looking at the synth as a musician, the 'sound' of it is like arguing over the taste of beer A vs beer B.

Rather, I am looking at the overall picture strictly from a product DESIGN standpoint. Which, in turn, goes to LONG TERM (like 8 years from now) reliability. I watch the factory build videos in a mixture of amazement and horror. I know that the end-customers "don't know what they are seeing", but I've forwarded them to people I've known for 25+ years in electronic manufacturing and they 100% all say stuff like "is this a joke?" and I say no, it's Moog theater. It's for a "show of Bro hipness". I get it just looking at the little 'stage setup' in the videos. Ohhh....a cool old scope! Potted plants! Random books! It's a 'Moog lifestyle' and that's 100% OK (is Moog trying to be Harley Davidson?).

My personal response to Moog One is EXACTLY THE SAME as my response to Roland when I looked inside my Demora delay. There is a thread in Euro somewhere. The tl;dr version was: WTF were they thinking?

It saddens me that after 5 years in development, Moog One can't even respond to MIDI Sustain messages.

You know what I personally wanted to see? A design "under the hood" that match what it looks like from the outside (except for those 3 goofy OLED displays that add nothing to the use, I think it looks gorgeous).

Just based on that has been presented so far, I am not confident it will be any more reliable than my 2 MemoryMoogs ever were.

And no designed in upgrade from 8 to 16 voices? REALLY???!?

Quote:
Why don't you build a fully fledged poly synth? Otherwise shut the fuck up.


Others have long before me. But Moog gets the fawning, yes?

I've designed "stuff" much more complicated that a Moog One. In less than 5 years SlayerBadger! Guinness ftw!
oscilloscope
paults wrote:

The ONLY reason it's external is to bypass UL/CE registration.


I'd agree that bypassing this registration step might be a big factor in their decision. But I also believe that somehow at mid or late stage in the design process, they had crammed so much circuitry inside that they ran out of space and decided to kick outside the power supply.

If DSI can do an internal power supply on a $2,500 desktop unit, I'd expect Moog to manage on a $7,000 machine

oscilloscope
dubonaire wrote:

It shits me to tears that someone like you dumps on a company for taking a chance to build something special.


Sorry to hear your predicament, but it seems to me that the ($7,000) chance-taking is rather on the customer side ...

I truly believe that synth manufacturers are bound to put out better stuff if we the users, are demanding, careful and critical in gear assessment, and not meekly starstruck by the reputation of certain companies.

nanners
paults
Quote:
If DSI can do an internal power supply on a $2,500 desktop unit, I'd expect Moog to manage on a $7,000 machine


Please stop making sense on a Muff thread. I'm sure there are other places for such postings. The last thing we need here are rational thoughts that support a reasonable argument. Guinness ftw!
Fentune
Heard the demos, read the press releases, the marketing and viewed the photos. First off, at this point in my career where I'm making songs for artists professionally and using many different tools to get various jobs done, I look for efficiency and originality when choosing said tools. IMO, this new offering from Moog is for die-hard fans and enthusiasts with deep pockets, because from what i've heard and read-I've heard it all before-at least 50 times over. The reason I wanted to point that out is because when I read "analog dream-synth designed to inspire imagination, stimulate creativity, and unlock portals to vast new realms of sonic potential.", I really want to believe it, so when I heard the demos I was severely disappointed. What good is *new* technology like 'triangle core oscillators' if they don't actually offer anything new and inspiring? Like I said, IMO this strictly for those who have extra space, extra money and extra time just to fiddle with buttons-perfect for wigglers I guess lol, but definitely not for me. Hearing is believing. I don't care how pretty it is or what new marketing phrases they come up with; sonically, it's just bread and margarine.
Waz
4 pin XLR connectors are VERY common with professional recording equipment. Even Universal Audio (Digital) is using them. I prefer them over more "suitable" connectors for their serviceability, ruggedness and availability (in a studio environment). I think Moog had recording studios in mind with this design decision. Anyone who has worked in a studio sees these connectors quite often. As of this writing, I am sitting next to a Chandler Limited Rackmount Pre with 4 pin XLR's for power.

From a servicing standpoint, I have seen more failed DC barrel connectors than XLR power connectors.
paults
Quote:
From a servicing standpoint, I have seen more failed DC barrel connectors than XLR power connectors.


Who said anything about using shitty barrel connectors?

I just don't like re-purposing connectors. Like using 5-pin DINs for both MIDI and as a power inlet.

A good example of a high current (10A and up) power connector is a Neutrik powerCON.

chvad
" I just don't like re-purposing connectors. Like using 5-pin DINs for both MIDI and as a power inlet. "

pretty sure my big briar theremin made this choice. Also not a fan. Also not a fan of fans. Or wall warts or bricks. whaddya gonna do?
Audiohub
I agree with WAZ about the 4 pin connectors. They are very standard in the pro audio scene. It's just weird to see someone trying to pass themselves off as an expert in this field claiming otherwise.
And where did this "7 fans" hysteria nonsense come from?!??!

Jeez, at least do your homework. hmmm.....
paults
Quote:
I agree with WAZ about the 4 pin connectors. They are very standard in the pro audio scene. It's just weird to see someone trying to pass themselves off as an expert in this field claiming otherwise.


You probably don't think "I know anything", but for 5 years I was a Field Applications Engineer for.....wait for it...Cannon connectors. Yep, had a 6-state territory, went to factory training 2x a year, the whole deal.

So, thanks for trying, but try again?

XLR are audio connectors, they are not designed to handle large DC currents (especially surge currents), even if you "double up" the pins. Using XLRs for MIDI? Stupid idea, Voyetra 8. Being a 'lazy' engineer is nothing new. "Well, we are already using XLRs for the ins/outs, why not for USB or Ethernet?"

If you want to make engineering arguments, at least PRETEND you are an engineer.

Quote:
And where did this "7 fans" hysteria nonsense come from?!??!


Are you saying the Moog One doesn't have 7 fans? Because it does.
Audiohub
paults wrote:
Quote:
I agree with WAZ about the 4 pin connectors. They are very standard in the pro audio scene. It's just weird to see someone trying to pass themselves off as an expert in this field claiming otherwise.


You probably don't think "I know anything", but for 5 years I was a Field Applications Engineer for.....wait for it...Cannon connectors. Yep, had a 6-state territory, went to factory training 2x a year, the whole deal.

So, thanks for trying, but try again?

XLR are audio connectors, they are not designed to handle large DC currents (especially surge currents), even if you "double up" the pins. Using XLRs for MIDI? Stupid idea, Voyetra 8. Being a 'lazy' engineer is nothing new. "Well, we are already using XLRs for the ins/outs, why not for USB or Ethernet?"

If you want to make engineering arguments, at least PRETEND you are an engineer.

Quote:
And where did this "7 fans" hysteria nonsense come from?!??!


Are you saying the Moog One doesn't have 7 fans? Because it does.


It does not. You are the only one spreading this nonsense.

And using these connectors for DC power has been a broadcast standard for mobile equipment for years.
Jeez dude,
DO YOUR HOMEWORK. d'oh!
denuir
Are there more fans than those shown here?

paults
The production has 5 fans. Some prototypes had 7, so 5 is the correct number.

So, I was wrong, it's 5 not 7.

Still 5, though [ducks]

And, as the Cannon FAE, I saw our connectors (not just XLR) being abused daily. Like the military guys trying to run 100MB Ethernet over a connector with a hi-capacitance dielectric shield. That was then attached to a flat ribbon cable.

All I'm saying is: there are connectors SPECIFICALLY ENGINEERED to handle power. Use them. Simple enough.

And if 4-pin stuff is prevalent in "studios" what will happen when

a) tech grabs the wrong XLR cable and shoves god-know-what into the Moog One's power connector?

b) same tech uses a Moog One supply into some other gear &q