sequencer for "purposively" composing melodies

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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snadge
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Post by snadge » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:15 pm

I have an Eloquencer which I really like but it is very limiting, I have a 101/2 combo landing next week, I think this may be the ideal pairing for me as one of the advantages of the 101/2 combo is that it will record other sequencers output so you have a base for it's extensive manipulation, it can also take midi files which may be an advantage to your workflow.

Here is a live set by Caterina Barbieri who really showcases how musical the 101 can be.

Last edited by snadge on Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by nso_music » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:19 pm

Grid + Ansible

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Post by uebl » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:44 pm

j259 wrote: Entropy Engine with cv expansion is a good balance, but it's a desktop module. Fits all your requirements, and there are ways to more fully integrate it with eurorack. Plus can also control your midi devices.

CV record from up to an 88 note keyboard and immediate hands on control is the big thing this will do better than anything in eurorack.
But unfortunately SE Engine is sold out and they currently don't plan any new batches, so meeeh..

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Post by Aaronautical001 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:10 pm

Been at work today, with no chance to respond. I just want to acknowledge and thank you all for responses. A lot of great suggestions and plenty of food for thought! :guinness:

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j259
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Post by j259 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:34 pm

uebl wrote:
j259 wrote: Entropy Engine with cv expansion is a good balance, but it's a desktop module. Fits all your requirements, and there are ways to more fully integrate it with eurorack. Plus can also control your midi devices.

CV record from up to an 88 note keyboard and immediate hands on control is the big thing this will do better than anything in eurorack.
But unfortunately SE Engine is sold out and they currently don't plan any new batches, so meeeh..
They come up for sale on the facebook group page or on reverb pretty often though.

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Post by savethisrocketship » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:57 pm

I get that we're in Euro-land here, but the Squarp Pyramid and FH-1 combo has been such a game changer for me. This is not a cheap option & I get that most people here want an In The Box solution, but it's so flexible and does so much, especially when connected to a decent midi controller. It's maybe more valuable to me since I have a lot of non-euro gear to interface with also, but it's easily the best hardware sequencer I have used for 'deliberate composition'. In euro alone I've had an Eloquencer, Sequencer 1, Stepper Acid, Arpitecht, Seek, and various CV plus Quantizer options. There's nothing wrong with any of these but I'm glad I took a chance on this setup.

Anyways, just my two cents because it seems to get under represented in sequencer advice threads. Good luck! :tu:

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Post by lisa » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:57 am

Ornament & Crime fits the bill perfectly, I think. If you can take working in a menu within a menu. ;)
New track! Drum synthesis heavy, melodic piece where Instruō harmonàig is doing the chords. 🐡


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Post by vonstirlitz » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:46 am

brandonlogic wrote:
BrokenBo wrote:for really specific composition there is only one sequencer:
:lol: Its a great one, but it’s not the ‘only one’ there are others... Nerdseq is basically equaly as complex and flexible except it has a better display to actually visualize the complexity and navigate around in a much more intuitive and quick way IMO.

I love the nerdseq for its incredible flexibility. And for its ability to compose and arrange entire songs with ease.

I also love the flxs1. It’s actually my go to sequencer for melodies for a number of reasons. While the nerdseq is incredibly flexible with possibilities, the flxs1 provides great features more focused specifically on mellody creation and is very inspiring and FAST to work with. Most importantly it’s an arpeggio powerhouse. With powerful arpeggio settings per-step (arp length, octave span, arp speed, chord, arp direction/style, etc) you can create incredibly interesting and complex sequences very quickly.

I love both these sequencers, I have tried many and owned and sold a few. These two are the ones I landed on and am keeping.

Couldn’t be more happy with this combo. I use flxs1 mostly for mellody sequencing and the nerdseq mostly for sequencing samples on the er301 and percussion sequencing. Both have midi in and out and sync (nerd requires expander) which is nice.

Both these sequencers also have a dedicated modulation output on every channel which is amazing, a huge bonus.
Are you me? This is the setup I settled wirh too. Nerdseq for beats, sample triggering, and overall structure, FLXS1 for melodies (its really versatile with cv manipulation of arps).

And both do reserve duty for sequenced cv modulation.

Perfect combo so far, notwithstanding both are works in progress.

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Post by Koryo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:25 pm

I got this tip from another user. Top of the top is a Synthstrom Audible - Deluge with one or two Polyend - Poly. This is so powerful it puts most DAWs to shame.

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Re: sequencer for "purposively" composing melodie

Post by Sleipnir » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:04 pm

Navs wrote:Yes, if I specifically want to record notes, I just use a keyboard, a DAW (in my case Logic) and a MIDI to CV converter. That's essentially what you have described above.

I find step sequencers to be fun and inspiring for certain things, but for 'composing' - especially outside of the 16 step, or whatever, grid/loop - a compromise and cumbersome. I use my ears and MIDI processors to help.
+2 for sure.
Once you get beyond 16 steps, it gets complicated & expensive (chaining seqs, mixing, adders, logic modules...). DAW makes it infinite.

I looked at a 101/301 setup but it made my brain hurt. Also, if you want “funky” rhythms, then it takes a lot of head scratching to work out the logic. Or maybe I’m dense. Playing it into a DAW is a no-brainer.

If you really don’t want to use a computer, then +1 for the Pyramid.

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Post by 6667 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:06 pm

Koryo wrote:I got this tip from another user. Top of the top is a Synthstrom Audible - Deluge with one or two Polyend - Poly. This is so powerful it puts most DAWs to shame.
Err... pretty sure no hardware in existence can put a multitrack DAW with a midi editor to shame lol. Especially since DAW based midi editors are only getting better and better (eg. Ableton 10 midi clip editor, you can literally edit multiple midi clips simultaneously, extract midi from audio, extract grooves, hotkeys, an unlimited amount of custom user made max midi devices, some that even do exactly what eurorack sequencers can do like rene/zularic repetitor, etc. etc.)

:bananaguitar:

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Post by artieTwelve » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:57 pm

I've found this book to be invaluable:

[/quote]

That's EXACTLY what I have been looking. Thanks!

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VG8+ and VB sync issues

Post by jimjam567 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:15 pm

Be aware that the Varigate8+ and Voltage Block (latest version 1.2) have verified (tested on multiple systems) sync issues. When VB is synced to VG8+ the VB will often lag about 1 beat behind the VG8+. This happens about every 2/3 times when the sequencer is started. However, when they work, they work great.

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Post by Timmy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm

lisa wrote:Ornament & Crime fits the bill perfectly, I think. If you can take working in a menu within a menu. ;)
Well, when a module only costs ~US$120*, you need to accept a few compromises. That said, O&C doesn't compromise on pitch CV accuracy or flexibility or configurability. The Sequins app on O&C, which is the one best suited for "purposive" sequencing, gives you two independent channels of pitch CV sequencing with voltage-controlled envelope outputs as well for each channel, and 4 x 16 step sequences which are chain able into 64 steps for each channel. And lots of other apps and options for more "generative" sequencing etc. See http://ornament-and-cri.me/user-manual- ... or-sequins

* about US$120 if you DIY, about US$200-220 if you buy pre-built from one of many third-party constructors. Pretty good value either way.

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Re: VG8+ and VB sync issues

Post by Cyber-N Powers » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:52 pm

jimjam567 wrote:Be aware that the Varigate8+ and Voltage Block (latest version 1.2) have verified (tested on multiple systems) sync issues. When VB is synced to VG8+ the VB will often lag about 1 beat behind the VG8+. This happens about every 2/3 times when the sequencer is started. However, when they work, they work great.

I've got this sync problem, but I didn't know there were different Voltage Block versions? Are they upgradeable or are you stuck with what you buy?

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Post by minphase » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:01 pm

MPC1000 plus Yarns.
Yamaha QY700 plus Yarns.

basically,

X plus Yarns, where X = fav. hw or sw sequencer


I love my Rene, SQ1, etc. but if it comes to doing something that isn't step oriented or limited to a fricking 4 bar loop (and I'm looking at you too, Octatrack), then I reach for my revolver, I mean, MPC1000. Sometimes you just need a little linear in your life.
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Post by deke » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:01 pm

Shledge wrote:
6667 wrote:I mean I just don't get it. Why would someone create arguably the most fully featured eurorack sequencer, price it (appropriately) at $700, and then make the panel look like a nintendo gameboy??????? Why?
...because it's inspired by other trackers, which are often used to make chiptunes? Frankly I can think of much worse looking modules. The black version is definitely the nicest looking.

I wouldn't mind an Amiga-inspired front panel.
Ah, such memories. Amiga 500 was my first computer. I even beta tested a DAW program for it and had so much fun. Alas, it was too far ahead of its time and pigeon holed after being marketed as "the ultimate game machine."

On topic, I am a newbie and have a FLXS1. This thread helped me understand that I need to learn more about how to use it.

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Post by Ypsi Kid » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:36 pm

I'll echo the statements around the er101/102 combo. I was a bit intimidated by these modules as well, but I have to say that Brian's approach to UI is very intuitive and you can get going really quickly. The ability to create your own user defined tables (basically creating a table with the values you want) is very powerful. Not to mention the math functions, parts and groups/group modifiers! But not for everyone for sure, works fantastic for me.

The Eloquencer is nice sequencer as well, although I use mine mostly for drums and percussion, but has a lot of nice features for pitch/melody creation.

Have not tried the NerdSeq but have read a lot of good things about it. Sequencing is definitely a personal thing, so I don't think there is on sequencer to rule them all as we all have different approaches, experience and expectations.

Have to say, I love me some sequencers though :)

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Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:18 pm

I am definitely in the ER-101 camp. Once you use it, it's hard to imagine going back. To be fair, I was going about sequencing the wrong way in euro--trying to chain different sequences together with sequential switches and clock dividers, etc. It's really nice to have something rock-solid that I can loop, and make macro-level changes over time. Still have to get the cash together for the 102, but for now the 101 has a huge impact on how I work.
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Post by -S.L- » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:48 pm

BrokenBo wrote:for really specific composition there is only one sequencer:

ER-101 with 102 expander. unlimited possibilites.
the guy said he is a beginer at music, not to mention that you need to be a highly skilled engineer to run that module :hihi:

I had the ER101 and 102, I'm not a beginner at music, neither at sequencer, and as much as I love the concept, I sold it because it was the biggest headache to make something with it. Oh I did a lot fo good thing with it, it just took me a whole afternoon of programing.... Not the most fun or immediate module out there unfortunately :despair:

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Post by williamcarthief » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:44 pm

I began "sequencing" in the 90s with Finale scoring software and general midi sound modules. I then used a Yamaha RM1x for many years. I've tried using multiple avenues for sequencing eurorack, including the RM1x with midi to cv devices, a beatstep pro, monome teletype, elektron analog keys, and finally an imac with logic pro using midi to cv. The last one is the answer for me. I enjoy semi-elaborate chord progressions with what would be considered complicated song structure from a pop standpoint. It's just so much easier to do using a big screen with score or piano-roll functionality and you can easily be as simple or as complex as you want. One can get a refurb imac, DAW software, and midi to cv for less than many of the options discussed here. Of course you add an audio interface of your choice and then you've got your means of making recordings as well.

As an aside, I've concluded that eurorack really isn't the ideal sound generator for me. I need polyphony, and I tried to get there with euro but I found it preferable to just stick with hardware synths. I still have euro, but I'm mostly using it to process the hardware synths now. What really got me into euro was the possibilities with random and chaotic modulation, something hardware synths can't do nearly as well.

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Post by evileye0702 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:00 pm

Don't overlook adding a couple of modules to a sequencer to meet your needs. This is really what "modular" is all about. Switches, precision adders and logic modules allow for great variations when combined with sequencers.

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Post by man_hands » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:28 pm

Timmy wrote:The Sequins app on O&C, which is the one best suited for "purposive" sequencing, gives you two independent channels of pitch CV sequencing with voltage-controlled envelope outputs as well for each channel, and 4 x 16 step sequences which are chain able into 64 steps for each channel.
Whoa, I thought Sequins was outputting gates on each channel. I guess I need to RTFM. :doh:

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Post by captjrab » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:11 pm

I use Rene v1 and 2xPP/Brains driven by Tempi. For me i try and keep the feature set to a minimum and focus on the basic elements of these modules like reset, run and logic. You can really score up some interesting music without being overwelmed with too many possibilities and after a while you may even be clever enough to pull off some more complex functions in conjunction with other modules in your case. Also, consider your soundsources in this equation because sequencing is not all about stepping voltges, it’s where these voltages end up.
Varigate and Rene in your case? Thats already plenty of sequencer, so save your money and get patching. Keep it simple, learn the basics. No magic module is going to do it for you.

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Re: sequencer for "purposively" composing melodie

Post by PM33AUD » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:25 pm

Navs wrote:
Aaronautical001 wrote: ...
An ideal sequencer for me would include:
An easy way to select specific notes
Key changes
Multiple QCV outs
Range of scales
Ideally longer than 16 steps or a way or easily programming longer more complex sequences
Reset would be nice

Is there anything that would fit the bill? For those that use it, how do people use a keyboard for composition? Does anyone record cvs from a key board?
Yes, if I specifically want to record notes, I just use a keyboard, a DAW (in my case Logic) and a MIDI to CV converter. That's essentially what you have described above.

I find step sequencers to be fun and inspiring for certain things, but for 'composing' - especially outside of the 16 step, or whatever, grid/loop - a compromise and cumbersome. I use my ears and MIDI processors to help.
This ^

Editing specific stuff in hardware is usually far slower and tedious than a clicky mouse and well-known KB shortcuts with virtually any DAW today. Or, if you can, play it in - even faster. This is for ideas you know ahead of time and then it's just a matter of how fast you can do data entry. If you *don't* know exactly what you want or want the hardware's constrained editing paradigm to change what ends up resulting from what you enter in, then hardware (that is built in a way that understands and exploits this) becomes more suitable. IMO of course :D

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