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DELAYS - Boss vs Electro Harmonix
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Guitars, Basses, Amps & FX Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author DELAYS - Boss vs Electro Harmonix
Rex Coil 7
BACKGROUND: I have Boss RE-20 Space echos. I have Electro Harmonix Memory Man With Hazarai (whatever the hell ~Hazarai~ is) and a Deluxe Memory Boy. I've also had the Boss DD-20 in the past (3 of them). Just to get it said, I also have an MXR Carbon Copy (sick little bitch!) ... and a Line 6 M13 (sick BIG bitch ... with MIDI I/O!).

I use one specified delay on each of a few separate instruments. ARP Odyssey, highly customized 5U modular, two Volca FMs tied together as a single 6 voice sound module, and a 1962 Hammond C3 which I've modified for use with either +4db/1.4v pro gear and/or Instrument Level 0.3v gear (so it's friends with stomp boxes AND rack gear). The C3 get's the Space Echo ... but the modular, the Volcas, and the Odyssey haven't been fully worked out just now. I also have a rompler and an Alesis SR-16 drum machine, both are stereo.

THE QUESTIONS: How do some of the smaller format (ie; stompboxes) Boss "DD" units stack up, especially for live performance real time use where on-the-run adjustments are made (for synth use)? Can they actually keep up with the GIANT ASS units named above? What of others? External controllers jacks for expression pedals or joysticks or other controllers are super handy, but not required (preferred, especially if they are useful).

Thoughts? Experiences? Opinions welcome.

Mr. Green
GuyaGuy
Keep up how? Feature-wise the DD series is obviously more limited. They're also blatantly digital delays. Even the analog setting is fairly clean with none of the roll off or grit from fancier modeling pedals. That can be a good or bad thing depending what you're after.

If you like the M13, you might wanna look at the M5--much smaller, same sounds, exp pedal etc. The XO series EHX Memory Man and Memory Boy also have exp jacks and both sound lovely for gritty, warbly analog, and they're very hands-on tweaky toys.
digitalganesha
Both the Boss DD-7, and my preferred the DD-3 are great on synthesizers. The DD-3 has a mode specifically to it where the speed at which you press the pedal determines the delay time, this makes it an incredible effect unit for varying stutter/glitch type effects. It's a Melt Banana secret. hihi

The EHX Number 1 Echo is as minimal as it gets but goddamn it is a beautiful sounding delay. It does suffer from the EHX plague of a volume drop when active, but if you use it at 100% wet on a send/return FX loop; its no issue.
The Memory Toy sounds like shit in my opinion. The Carbon Copy blows it away. The Deluxe Memory Boy and Memory Man are awesome (as you know having the DMBoy.) And Hazarai means "memory." That delay is also awesome and can do some wild things. Also, the majority of expression inputs on EHX pedals play nicely with CV.
Rex Coil 7
GuyaGuy wrote:
Keep up how? Feature-wise the DD series is obviously more limited. They're also blatantly digital delays. Even the analog setting is fairly clean with none of the roll off or grit from fancier modeling pedals. That can be a good or bad thing depending what you're after.

If you like the M13, you might wanna look at the M5--much smaller, same sounds, exp pedal etc. The XO series EHX Memory Man and Memory Boy also have exp jacks and both sound lovely for gritty, warbly analog, and they're very hands-on tweaky toys.
I've already owned 3 M5s, and an M9. Dumped for the M13. Had the M13 for several years now, during which I also used M5s for dedicated tasks (the digital ring mod is SICK with analog synths).

digitalganesha wrote:
Both the Boss DD-7, and my preferred the DD-3 are great on synthesizers. The DD-3 has a mode specifically to it where the speed at which you press the pedal determines the delay time, this makes it an incredible effect unit for varying stutter/glitch type effects. It's a Melt Banana secret. hihi

The EHX Number 1 Echo is as minimal as it gets but goddamn it is a beautiful sounding delay. It does suffer from the EHX plague of a volume drop when active, but if you use it at 100% wet on a send/return FX loop; its no issue.
The Memory Toy sounds like shit in my opinion. The Carbon Copy blows it away. The Deluxe Memory Boy and Memory Man are awesome (as you know having the DMBoy.) And Hazarai means "memory." That delay is also awesome and can do some wild things. Also, the majority of expression inputs on EHX pedals play nicely with CV.
This is all excellent news. The Melted Nanaba secret is enticing. I'll have to look that up.

So I gather being outfitted with what I have pretty much takes the Apex Predator award as live performance delays go. I only just bought the Hazarai and the Deluxe Memory Boy not but a day ago (eBay). Paid $138 for the Hazarai and $128 for the Memory Boy Dlx (free shipping on both). Both appear to be in 5/5 condition from very reputable sellers. Also located a Ring Thing for $159 with 2yr add on warranty.

Unfortunately, I've yet to be able to test any of this stuff. My project modular is not quite completed yet (nearly there! ... see link in my signature), so when those things arrive I still have my guitars and an Odyssey to work them over. I have two Ernie Ball VP Jr. 25k pedals that can be used as expression pedals (when used with the proper cables, that is). I also have a custom passive joystick, each axis has it's own output ... so it may be used as a dual expression pedal.

I'm very pleased with the infos provided here so far. Thank you.

thumbs up

My chopped Tele with Strat neck ... named "Shredbilly" ... the top cut matches the profile of the Gibson Explorer. I have a fuddup neck injury, the cut was necessary to allow me to play guitar.



GuyaGuy
digitalganesha wrote:
And Hazarai means "memory."

It means "slop."
http://www.jewish-languages.org/jewish-english-lexicon/words/225

Matthews claims another meaning. Might be an old school NY thing--or just made up.

“It means all the extra stuff. You know, give me a frank with all the Hazarai.”
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/one-with-everything-the-story-o f-the-stereo-memory-man-with-hazarai-1
Rex Coil 7
GuyaGuy wrote:
digitalganesha wrote:
And Hazarai means "memory."

It means "slop."
http://www.jewish-languages.org/jewish-english-lexicon/words/225

Matthews claims another meaning. Might be an old school NY thing--or just made up.

“It means all the extra stuff. You know, give me a frank with all the Hazarai.”
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/one-with-everything-the-story-o f-the-stereo-memory-man-with-hazarai-1
You're both wrong ...

Hazarai; "Big blue delay made by the company that is still trippin' on the same hit of acid it ate in 1969 with a bunch of really cool shit on it". Hazarai.

lol
GuyaGuy
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
GuyaGuy wrote:
digitalganesha wrote:
And Hazarai means "memory."

It means "slop."
http://www.jewish-languages.org/jewish-english-lexicon/words/225

Matthews claims another meaning. Might be an old school NY thing--or just made up.

“It means all the extra stuff. You know, give me a frank with all the Hazarai.”
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/one-with-everything-the-story-o f-the-stereo-memory-man-with-hazarai-1
You're both wrong ...

Hazarai; "Big blue delay made by the company that is still trippin' on the same hit of acid it ate in 1969 with a bunch of really cool shit on it". Hazarai.

lol

Matthews definitely seems like he's still tripping on 1969 acid...

GovernorSilver
Rex Coil 7 wrote:


I use one specified delay on each of a few separate instruments. ARP Odyssey, highly customized 5U modular, two Volca FMs tied together as a single 6 voice sound module, and a 1962 Hammond C3 which I've modified for use with either +4db/1.4v pro gear and/or Instrument Level 0.3v gear (so it's friends with stomp boxes AND rack gear). The C3 get's the Space Echo ... but the modular, the Volcas, and the Odyssey haven't been fully worked out just now. I also have a rompler and an Alesis SR-16 drum machine, both are stereo.

THE QUESTIONS: How do some of the smaller format (ie; stompboxes) Boss "DD" units stack up, especially for live performance real time use where on-the-run adjustments are made (for synth use)? Can they actually keep up with the GIANT ASS units named above? What of others? External controllers jacks for expression pedals or joysticks or other controllers are super handy, but not required (preferred, especially if they are useful).

Thoughts? Experiences? Opinions welcome.

Mr. Green


If you're using one delay per synth, I don't see how you could get much faster than one DD pedal per synth, as far as on-the-fly tweaking goes. One pedal with just a few knobs per synth - can't really beat that.

One Hazarai per synth sounds too bulky to be practical.
Rex Coil 7
GovernorSilver wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:


I use one specified delay on each of a few separate instruments. ARP Odyssey, highly customized 5U modular, two Volca FMs tied together as a single 6 voice sound module, and a 1962 Hammond C3 which I've modified for use with either +4db/1.4v pro gear and/or Instrument Level 0.3v gear (so it's friends with stomp boxes AND rack gear). The C3 get's the Space Echo ... but the modular, the Volcas, and the Odyssey haven't been fully worked out just now. I also have a rompler and an Alesis SR-16 drum machine, both are stereo.

THE QUESTIONS: How do some of the smaller format (ie; stompboxes) Boss "DD" units stack up, especially for live performance real time use where on-the-run adjustments are made (for synth use)? Can they actually keep up with the GIANT ASS units named above? What of others? External controllers jacks for expression pedals or joysticks or other controllers are super handy, but not required (preferred, especially if they are useful).

Thoughts? Experiences? Opinions welcome.

Mr. Green


If you're using one delay per synth, I don't see how you could get much faster than one DD pedal per synth, as far as on-the-fly tweaking goes. One pedal with just a few knobs per synth - can't really beat that.

One Hazarai per synth sounds too bulky to be practical.
Wouldn't that all depend upon how my studio is arranged? I wasn't commenting on various delay sizes as a matter of complaint, I was just joking around a bit.

The Deluxe Memory Boy and the Hazarai just arrived this morning. The Ring Thing just showed up a few days back. So I'll take some time, familiarize myself with these things, and see what gives. I already know the Ring Thing matches up quite well with the Odyssey .... perfect 5th interval at the press of a preset ... that's super nice. But there's a lot more in that gadget than just the ability to add "a second VCO" (so to speak).

The Odyssey has: Ring Thing, Waldorf 2-Pole, Boss PH-3 phase shifter, Electro Harmonix Poly Chorus, a custom chorus pedal I built for it (for all the world it sounds like VCO beating like no other chorus I've ever used ... glad I have seven more PCBs for that thing!!). So all that is left to dedicate to the Odyssey is some form of delay. It also has an Ernie Ball VP Jr. 25k volume pedal modified for expression pedal use which is used in the "expression input" of the Odyssey.

The fact that the Deluxe Memory Boy has an expression control input (compatible with CV signals, I've read) as well as the send/return loop jacks and that it is monophonic may end up being the dog's balls in my rig. The send/return jacks may be used to place FX on just the delay's repeats only (the original sound is not routed through the send/return loop). Dunno if that is useful yet, but there it is.

The presets in the Hazarai (along with reverse echo and a few other tricks) make it at least worth testing out. The lack of expression pedal input is a bit of a bummer, but not a deal breaker.

If I prefer one over the other (Memory Boy vs Hazarai) I'll sell the one that didn't work out and buy a second of the one that did work out.

If the whole mess turns out to be bad news, I suppose I can fall back on one of the Boss *DD* units (one of the little white ones .... I'd have to do research to work out which one suits best).

hmmm.....
GovernorSilver
For some reason, I missed the bit about all this stuff being just for studio use, not live.

Have you considered getting a patchbay? Would make it a lot easier to patch various synths to various delay pedals, as your whim dictates.
Rex Coil 7
GovernorSilver wrote:
For some reason, I missed the bit about all this stuff being just for studio use, not live.

Have you considered getting a patchbay? Would make it a lot easier to patch various synths to various delay pedals, as your whim dictates.
I have two of the older Panasonics (32 jacks each). I've also collected 48 of the 1' long Dot Com patch cables which I like using with the patchbays. Being as short as they are, and as rigid as the "Synthesizers.Com" heat shrink tubing is, those one footers make a really nice *arc* which makes them easily swapped/moved around. The 2 foot ones also work just right for longer stretches between jack that are farther apart.

Half of one patchbay is used for an Alesis DEQ 8 channel 31 band digital EQ. Eight individual channels, each channel has it's own dedicated IN and OUT jack ... so 16 jacks on just that one EQ. But that thing is super cool. Holds up to 100 separate curves, and 100 separate programs, each program containing up to 8 curves. 12db plus, and 12db minus ... put two channels in series and you have 24db plus and 24db minus.

So, yea ... I have patchbays.

thumbs up
Ra
Just for the sake of mentioning more options: I've been pretty happy with the Boss DM-2w.
Has some nicely textured, foggy tone to it. I don't know if this is 100% legit, but there seems to be some kind of additional gate in the feedback path, which gets somewhat audible with feedback swells. When you start with a soft-attack sound, it gets sharper and pingier (?) with each repeat.
It also has a separate wet/dry output, which is always useful.
MindMachine
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
You're both wrong ...

Hazarai; "Big blue delay made by the company that is still trippin' on the same hit of acid it ate in 1969 with a bunch of really cool shit on it". Hazarai.

lol


So what is your excuse? Blotter, cube, microdot...? I preferred the windowpane.
Rex Coil 7
MindMachine wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
You're both wrong ...

Hazarai; "Big blue delay made by the company that is still trippin' on the same hit of acid it ate in 1969 with a bunch of really cool shit on it". Hazarai.

lol


So what is your excuse? Blotter, cube, microdot...? I preferred the windowpane.
Now you need to make up my mind here. Two years ago you said it was Purple Micro. I suppose at the end of the day ... "Fry" is "Fry" ... (a name for LSD back then ... "fry").

Blotter was quite popular in my stompin' grounds during the mid/late-70s, as was Orange Microdot.

That's all I'm givin' up in response to you. whistlin'

I created a Dot Com construct out of the fewest modules I could use to make up a voice with ... called it the "Micro Dot" ...

meh https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157075&highlight=

MindMachine wrote:
Purple Microdot here circa 1982.

Good luck on your ambitious project. Reading posts like this make me glad everyone is not as lazy as I am (... well I did make my own cases).

Your microdot also shows me I need to be more creative using my Q118.


lol thumbs up
Rex Coil 7
Ok ... after a few days of working with the Deluxe Memory Boy and the Stereo Memory Man With Hazarai ... the Hazarai takes the win.

I guess I just prefer digital delays over analog delays.

The ~Boy~ is up for sale!

thumbs up

(I've unsubscribed from this thread - I'm not upset, just trying to keep my number of subscribed threads under better control - if you wish to correspond please feel free to send me a PM, I'll be happy to hear from you - thanks!)
MindMachine
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
You're both wrong ...

Hazarai; "Big blue delay made by the company that is still trippin' on the same hit of acid it ate in 1969 with a bunch of really cool shit on it". Hazarai.

lol


So what is your excuse? Blotter, cube, microdot...? I preferred the windowpane.
Now you need to make up my mind here. Two years ago you said it was Purple Micro. I suppose at the end of the day ... "Fry" is "Fry" ... (a name for LSD back then ... "fry").

Blotter was quite popular in my stompin' grounds during the mid/late-70s, as was Orange Microdot.

That's all I'm givin' up in response to you. whistlin'

I created a Dot Com construct out of the fewest modules I could use to make up a voice with ... called it the "Micro Dot" ...

meh https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157075&highlight=

MindMachine wrote:
Purple Microdot here circa 1982.

Good luck on your ambitious project. Reading posts like this make me glad everyone is not as lazy as I am (... well I did make my own cases).

Your microdot also shows me I need to be more creative using my Q118.


lol thumbs up


Blotter, dot and pane here.

I have a mixed bag of digital and analog delay pedals. I like all of the ones I currently have, but need to pare them down. Some are fairly unique though:

MXR Carbon Copy
Boss RE-20
CatalinBread Echorec
Hotone EKO


Others that have echo are:
Old Blood Endeavors Dark Star
Red Particle Panda
Realistic Electronic Reverb

I think I need another analog just to get a better range. All of my rack effect are digital.

edit - that DOD Rubberneck looks sweet with the feedback loop and 1.5 sec.?
thetwlo
MindMachine wrote:

edit - that DOD Rubberneck looks sweet with the feedback loop and 1.5 sec.?

you are on to something! don't miss it!
tnktni
Have you tried Strymon's El Capistan or DIG? They have expression pedal connectivity and preset memory.
felixer
ROWIN. chinese. very nice fx boxes. i have two delays and two phasers. esp the 4sec delay is fun. phasers are nice,clean&clear (much better then phase90 type) and gentle. i like to put one left and one right on stereo stuff that could need a bit of extra.
so there def is quality in the huge pile of stuff. and cheap.
TXBDan
I'm also hunting for a delay pedal. How does a TC Electronics Flashback fit into the convo?
felixer
TXBDan wrote:
I'm also hunting for a delay pedal. How does a TC Electronics Flashback fit into the convo?

pretty fancy machine. rowin makes this really small delay. just does echo, but nice. simple knobs. no midi, memories or that. often all you need. get two if you want stereo.
Futuresound
Black Pyramids

Interesting that the Hazarai won you over. There’s a lot of ‘it’s not a REAL Memory Man’ associated with it, but it does tick a lot of boxes. I’ll have to try one.
Sinamsis
So I'm a delay pedal junkie. I currently own Strymon Timeline, Strymon El Capistan, Chase Bliss Tonal Recall, Empress Echyosystem and two Walrus Audio Bellwethers.

I'm guessing the Timeline doesn't fit your description so I'll leave it out.

El Cap is great. Stereo. It has an expression pedal input, which I believe can accept CV. Sounds wonderful. But it's a tape each through and through, and it sounds like you prefer the clarity of a digital delay (Strymon DIG does come to mind).

Chase Bliss Tonal Recall is a BBD based delay, using the MN3005 chip (like the Deluxe Memory Man). Can be used as a very basic delay, but also has a TON of features. Also EP connectivity. The red knob version (RKM) offers 1100 ms of delay times I believe. It's expensive (I think $600 new).

Walrus Bellwether is another BBD based delay. Early versions had some supposed issues with popping (I haven't experienced this) so second hand prices are pretty good. Stock version has 1100 ms delay time. My main complaint is that they don't go 100% wet, though Walrus has offered to mod them for me.

The Echosystem is great. It's digital with a ton of algorithms. I haven't used it extensively, but enough to get a general feel for it. For me, the most direct comparison is the Timeline, but smaller. There are more algos, but each algo seems to have a little less control than the Timeline. It also lets you use two algos at a time, in series or parallel.

I've also owned the Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai and it stands out to me as a very well featured pedal, particularly for the price. I've also owned a vintage DMM. Also the Line 6 delay modeler and the Eventide Timefactor. For me, the Timeline was the end all be all for a very long time. Strymon make amazing algorithms, it's that simple.
chvad
thetwlo wrote:
MindMachine wrote:

edit - that DOD Rubberneck looks sweet with the feedback loop and 1.5 sec.?

you are on to something! don't miss it!

exceptional delay.
Futuresound
Sinamsis wrote:
My main complaint is that they don't go 100% wet, though Walrus has offered to mod them for me.


Ah, that's interesting, I've always love the way the Bellwether sounds, but wanted full wet. If it can be modded that changes things.
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