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New Doepfer Envelopes A-141-4, A-140-2, A-142-2
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author New Doepfer Envelopes A-141-4, A-140-2, A-142-2
albiedamned
Apologies if there's already a thread about these, but I couldn't find one.

http://www.doepfer.de/a1414.htm
http://www.doepfer.de/a1402.htm
http://www.doepfer.de/a1422.htm

They all say available in either June or July.

The A-140-2 in particular interests me. Two full, independent ADSR envelopes in 8 HP, with voltage control over some or all of the time parameters. You can control which parameters are affected by the CV input via jumper settings. I'd probably set it to control decay or maybe decay + release.

A-141-4 looks like a good module for polyphony. A-142-2 looks real interesting too. It sacrifices the sustain and independent release setting of the A-140-2, but it gives you built-in VCAs!



Nino
I found this on Doepfers website about the A-140-2 dual ADSR, which is really nice:

Quote:
By means of internal jumpers one can select which time parameters are controlled by the CVT input (e.g. D only or D+R or A+D+R) and in which direction (i.e. if an increasing CVT shortens or stretches the time parameter in question).
GNSDG
Very interested to see these popping up in stores.
R.U.Nuts
Nino wrote:
I found this on Doepfers website about the A-140-2 dual ADSR, which is really nice:

Quote:
By means of internal jumpers one can select which time parameters are controlled by the CVT input (e.g. D only or D+R or A+D+R) and in which direction (i.e. if an increasing CVT shortens or stretches the time parameter in question).


Yes, but I'm pretty disappointed that they implemented those duck-CV input instead of simple CV inputs for the VCAs that break the internal connection to the envelopes. And instead of the manual gate buttons (which probably are a PITA to push anyway if you have cables pluggd into the module) there should be the envelope outputs. This way you could use the VCAs and envelopes independent from each other.
This module could have been an instabuy for me but these design choices are pretty much dealbreakers.
MindMachine
R.U. Nuts - I think you are mixing the functions of the A-140-2 and the A-142-2.

The A-140-2 looks amazing. Two ADSR's in a small package w/ cv over whichever parameter you want to control. I was looking at buying two each of the Freq. Central CEM (Pro One) envelopes, but I can get this for the price of one of those.
dubonaire
albiedamned wrote:

The A-140-2 in particular interests me. Two full, independent ADSR envelopes in 8 HP, with voltage control over some or all of the time parameters. You can control which parameters are affected by the CV input via jumper settings. I'd probably set it to control decay or maybe decay + release.

A-141-4 looks like a good module for polyphony. A-142-2 looks real interesting too. It sacrifices the sustain and independent release setting of the A-140-2, but it gives you built-in VCAs!


Yes I think he made the A-141-4 to go with the A-111-4 Quad Precision VCO, the A-105-4 Quad Poly VCF and the A-132-8 Octal Poly VCA.

And then it looks he thought he may as well build on that and offer some other variants.
R.U.Nuts
MindMachine wrote:
R.U. Nuts - I think you are mixing the functions of the A-140-2 and the A-142-2.


I don't think so: I visited the Doepfer homepage to check this: A-142-2 is a dual AD/ASR envelope - VCA combo. But instead of having gate/trigger input, timing CV input and envelope output for the EGs and signal- and CV-input and signal output for the VCAs, Doepfer omitted the envelope outputs in favour of manual gate buttons which are probably impossible to hit with cables patched. Additionaly they hardwired the outputs of the envelopes to the CV ins of the VCAs and added inverted CV inputs which are mixed with the envelope CV in favour of simple CV inputs with switching jacks that break the internal normalization of EG out > VCA CV in.
Both this means that you can't use the envelopes and the VCAs independent from each other.
You're stuck using the envelopes exclusively for the built in VCAs and if you want to use another modulation source for a VCA you cannot use the corresponding envelope because there's no way of stopping it from modulating the VCA.
MindMachine
^ I see. They both share the same jumpers, but Nino was only referring to the A-140-2, which does not have the VCA's or Gate Buttons that you referenced.

I am pretty interested in that A-140-2. Simple design, but with the little adder of a CV for a time parameter.

The A-142-2 is versatile beyond my needs. Glad to see Dopefer kicking out these new complex, smaller designs in VCO's, ADSR's, etc.
albiedamned
Yeah, I'm going to buy an A-140-2 when it becomes available. I had been planning to get a second Contour, but this will give me two envelopes in the same space with full ADSR (Contour combines Decay and Release on a single knob). I'm sure it's going to be a bit fiddly with so many knobs in such a small space, and it doesn't have the shape control that the Contour has. Contour is a really nice module, but I already have one so I'll get the A-140-2 instead of a second.
slumberjack
nice to see doepfer goes dense.
ben_hex
The quad looks great, very much interested in their quad/poly range.

The 142-2 looks interesting. Reading the site the duck seems more like a mute than actually patching up a more variable duck/sidechain type patch. Which is a shame. A dual ducking unit with envelope/VCA for other use would be great.
Monotremata
The A-140-2 looks rad! Its kinda like two of the Blue Lantern ADSR I have in the same size package. All its missing is a linear/exponential switch, and the looping mode. The Blue Lantern has a "Time" CV too, and a manual knob for "Time", but theres no manual or even one page PDF for it anywhere that tells you what anything on the module actually does.
andybizarre
The A-140-2 is a no-brainer for me and will be purchased as soon as it`s available. I have to confess, I own a lot of envelope generators, but for plain ADSR, the humble A-140 sounds the most "musical" to me (hides) . Double envelope, same HP plus CV over envelope segments - I`m all in. SlayerBadger!
Rex Coil 7
slumberjack wrote:
nice to see doepfer goes dense.
Like they haven't been already?

They've been dense enough for many years. There's only so much you can wedge into a square inch of panel space before it becomes useless for human beings to use. Doepfer has skirted that edge with many modules for many years.

I find knobs with a 1/4" outer diameter to be the inside edge of ~dense~ and usefulness. And I have tiny baby diaper boy girly-man hands .... (with really nasty/bumpy/boney knuckles that are as effective as a knot-covered club ... or perhaps a sock full of rocks ... when stricken by them).
strangegravity
They are making it hard for me to not build a poly modular.
spinalbeatz
Definitely picking up an A-142-2!
vidret
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
And I have tiny baby diaper boy girly-man hands .... (with really nasty/bumpy/boney knuckles that are as effective as a knot-covered club ... or perhaps a sock full of rocks ... when stricken by them).


I tried clicking that as if it were a URL.
Rex Coil 7
vidret wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
And I have tiny baby diaper boy girly-man hands .... (with really nasty/bumpy/boney knuckles that are as effective as a knot-covered club ... or perhaps a sock full of rocks ... when stricken by them).


I tried clicking that as if it were a URL.
lol lol lol

Honestly speaking, I ripped off a riff from an old Saturday Night Live sketch ....



thumbs up
spinalbeatz
Has anyone spotted the A-142-2 in stores yet?
raylinds
Just as I was trying to cut back on my spending. very frustrating
spinalbeatz


We've got an actual product shot of the 142-2 now! Hoping that means it's coming soon.
southberry
Very temped to switch my A-140 for a A-140-2
Two ADSR for the same HP but with CV !!!! just need to see if the switch can replace the switch on the A-140 which is really useful in live situation.
DJMaytag
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Yes, but I'm pretty disappointed that they implemented those duck-CV input instead of simple CV inputs for the VCAs that break the internal connection to the envelopes. And instead of the manual gate buttons (which probably are a PITA to push anyway if you have cables pluggd into the module) there should be the envelope outputs. This way you could use the VCAs and envelopes independent from each other.
This module could have been an instabuy for me but these design choices are pretty much dealbreakers.

Do you DIY? It says there is a pin header on the back that would allow for some extra VCA in/ENV out action on a DIY breakout panel, as you're desiring. It would just cost you an extra 2-4 HP, depending on what you can squeeze onto a little panel.

While it's 3HP bigger than a Bastl Skis, I think the A-142-2 might be a better module for my setup.
GNSDG
Looks like Noisebug has a few of these
MindMachine
I only see 'e-mail for availability' at Noisebug. If Analog Haven doesn't have them in the US then likely no one will. They are still not up at Thomann either in Europe.

But damn... need a A-140-2 to go with my bank of A-140's and A-141 and A-142. hyper That will be a sweet suite.
circuitbent
On the A-140-2, I see that each channel has an "Out 2" and an "Out 1". Are these just mults of the same output signal?
DMR
circuitbent wrote:
On the A-140-2, I see that each channel has an "Out 2" and an "Out 1". Are these just mults of the same output signal?


Out 2 can be either the a normal or inverted envelope out (selectable via a jumper on the back of the module): http://www.doepfer.de/a1402.htm
MindMachine
I see they are available at Schneidersladen but not Thomann or Analog Haven.

They are 'now available' on Doepfers site: http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm
poatoae
Detroit Modular has the A-140-2 and the A-132-8 now.
suthnear
Just got the a140-2: it's a lot of envelope in a small space. The CVT parameter is normalled to a voltage source so you can increase (or decrease) the exponential nature of the time-based envelope segments just by turning it, which allows you to tune the shape of the envelope. The module has a number of jumpers that allow you to set various options so it's actually rather more well specified than it appears. The small pots work well, with a much smoother and more pleasing travel than I was expecting. I bought this for my desktop satellite but I may get another one for the main cases...

One small downside is that it seems to need a fairly large gate signal to open properly. The gates from my expert-sleepers es-40 expanders do not work well with it: decay doesn't work at all (release might not have, either). It worked fine with an es3, however. I will investigate this further when I have a chance.
suthnear
circuitbent wrote:
On the A-140-2, I see that each channel has an "Out 2" and an "Out 1". Are these just mults of the same output signal?


Yes. There is a jumper option that inverts one of the outs if you want.
MindMachine
suthnear wrote:
Just got the a140-2: it's a lot of envelope in a small space. The CVT parameter is normalled to a voltage source so you can increase (or decrease) the exponential nature of the time-based envelope segments just by turning it, which allows you to tune the shape of the envelope. The module has a number of jumpers that allow you to set various options so it's actually rather more well specified than it appears. The small pots work well, with a much smoother and more pleasing travel than I was expecting. I bought this for my desktop satellite but I may get another one for the main cases...

One small downside is that it seems to need a fairly large gate signal to open properly. The gates from my expert-sleepers es-40 expanders do not work well with it: decay doesn't work at all (release might not have, either). It worked fine with an es3, however. I will investigate this further when I have a chance.


SlayerBadger!

poatoae wrote:
Detroit Modular has the A-140-2 and the A-132-8 now.


Guinness ftw!

edit - scored the A-140-2 from Detroit. Thanks for the heads-up.
GNSDG
Any more experiences with these, esp. A-140-2?
MindMachine
Got mine in. Have left the jumpers as stock as frankly that is the config I will use most. I might change the second envelope to have CTG over 'all' instead of just decay. The smaller knobs still give detailed response. I think this thing is a great double envelope. Would be real good HP usage for a beginner rack. Very recommended, especially for a starter unit. Dense for 8HP.
Keltie
Of the new modules I’m most interested in the a142-2, the dual a/r vca combo. Does anyone have any further insight on when these are out? Doepfer website says July, and hasn’t been updated in a while. Any insider info?
Rigo
Keltie wrote:
Of the new modules I’m most interested in the a142-2, the dual a/r vca combo. Does anyone have any further insight on when these are out? Doepfer website says July, and hasn’t been updated in a while. Any insider info?

According to the Doepfer News page ( http://www.doepfer.de/new_e.htm ) that one should be available now.
MindMachine
Juno has one. https://www.juno.co.uk/products/doepfer-a-142-2-dual-envelope-controll ed/684451-01/

...maybe?
Keltie
Thanks rigo and mm. I’ll check with Juno that they’re actually in stock. I think that has come onto their page very recently, and no one else say that they have em... I d been checking at thomann who still don’t....
suthnear
suthnear wrote:
One small downside is that it seems to need a fairly large gate signal to open properly. The gates from my expert-sleepers es-40 expanders do not work well with it: decay doesn't work at all (release might not have, either). It worked fine with an es3, however. I will investigate this further when I have a chance.


This was a PEBMAC: smoothing was turned on for that channel in silent way and it obviously just slowed down the slope enough that it didn't trigger the envelope properly. When I set it to 0, the envelopes trigger normally
Shledge
I noticed the A140-2 won't trigger properly with my nerdseq. It seems it's really picky about finding an "edge" in order to trigger rather than just a voltage level. Checked on the oscilloscope and found that the nerdseq's trigger outs have a very slight soft edge to them - works fine for everything else, but not for picky modules like the A-140-2. Amplifying the trigger outs works, but I'm wondering if it can be modded to be made more sensitive.

Other than that, it's a great little module. I like how I can CV control decay/release.
amalthea
Does anyone know if the A140-2 is pretty much the same as the original A140 x2? In other words, does it have the same shape/slope for the A+D stages, and the same range time ranges?
Shledge
Erm, being analogue modules, they will always be a bit different.

The A140-2 is pretty snappy, but the time ranges are variable by the CVT pots/CV inputs unlike the A140. This means not only you can fine tune your time range, but control it by CV.

Although it's more accurate to say that it's not really changing time range, but the curve of the envelope, which gives the same effect (along with making it snappier).
cg_funk
Have to say I have really been enjoying the A-142-2. The simplicity of having a couple envelopes pre-patched to VCAs is really nice. There are really a lot of pin-options on the back, and I haven't explored that yet.

I am however already seriously considering making a breakout plate with a couple jacks for envelope-outputs. I feel I'd rather have envelope out than ducking-in, personally.
boxxgrooved
cg_funk wrote:
Have to say I have really been enjoying the A-142-2. The simplicity of having a couple envelopes pre-patched to VCAs is really nice. There are really a lot of pin-options on the back, and I haven't explored that yet.

I am however already seriously considering making a breakout plate with a couple jacks for envelope-outputs. I feel I'd rather have envelope out than ducking-in, personally.


I have been enjoying the ease of patching with the A-142-2 also and agree that envelope out jacks would be more useful. Although I use the A-142-2 a lot I still keep a regular A-140 around for the extremely snappy envelope in the low range setting. I have not been able to achieve such a response from the A-142-2.

I have used the ducking input combined with an A-119 as a useful limiter/compressor on patches that get a bit out of control. Useful on feedback patches that could otherwise slam your recording inputs.
Steve Richards
Shledge wrote:
I noticed the A140-2 won't trigger properly with my nerdseq. It seems it's really picky about finding an "edge" in order to trigger rather than just a voltage level. Checked on the oscilloscope and found that the nerdseq's trigger outs have a very slight soft edge to them


Hi Folks,

Has anyone tried an A140-2 with a Mother 32? Does it trigger OK from the M32?

Thanks in advance.

Steve
ckwjr
I just got the 105-4 to go with my 141-4. It's a great combo, but I'm thinking of switching out the 141-4 for the Noise Engineering quad envelope. I've also used the Qu-bit Contour, which has a lot of great features. Something like the Pons Asinorum seems a bit more flexible than both those others, but for now the 141-4 is great to have.
Yodhan
I got a A-142-2 about a week ago. Haven’t had a whole lot of time with it because I am building a new case and using the rails from my HEK for it, so the rig has been down. That being said, it is a great utility and space saver. I got it because I frequently have a voice that is a pretty basic oscillator to filter to envelope to vca for bass notes and this did the double duty of combing the last two parts, plus giving me two of them. Really couldn’t argue.
lionelfischer
What do u guys think of the comparison between NE since iter and the doeofer 142-2

Not sure what to get
lionelfischer
Yodhan wrote:
I got a A-142-2 about a week ago. Haven’t had a whole lot of time with it because I am building a new case and using the rails from my HEK for it, so the rig has been down. That being said, it is a great utility and space saver. I got it because I frequently have a voice that is a pretty basic oscillator to filter to envelope to vca for bass notes and this did the double duty of combing the last two parts, plus giving me two of them. Really couldn’t argue.


does it add any gain
cg_funk
lionelfischer wrote:

does it add any gain


No, not that I can tell. It has an attenuator to lower the audio-in signal, but that's all. Actually this module really likes a really hot audio-in, and with snappy envelopes you may need to boost the output a bit.

It has a ton of pin switches on the back, so there are a number of different ways to configure the A-142-2.
Shledge
I got a response from Dieter on how to make it less picky with gates - it seems it needs a gate with a fairly sharp rising/falling edges at the moment, meaning some modules can't trigger it properly or at all:

"Hello,

the A-140-2 is based on the CEM3310 ADSR circuit. The 3310 requires both a gate and an internal trigger signal. The trigger signal is derived from the gate signal by means of a capacitor (C3 and C7). The recommended value in the data sheet is 3nF. In the A-140-2 we already increased the value a bit to 4n7. But if the rising edge of the gate signal is too flabby the trigger is not generated as expected. Maybe increasing the values of C3 and C7 may help (e.g. adding a second 4n7 or 10n capacitor in parallel). But as a rule gate signals should have fast rising and falling edges.
The A-143-2 uses a different circuitry. That's why it may work also with slower edges of the gate signal.

Hope this helps and feel free to publish the information if it solves the problem"

I'm going to try it this weekend, seems like a straightforward mod. If it works I'll let everyone know. cool
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