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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Random Source 2017 Serge Ring
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Random Source 2017 Serge Ring
Mashmore
So the soundcloud examples on the random source site sound absolutely amazing to me. http://randomsource.net/serge_euro

I am about to pull the trigger on one of these. Any users care to share their thoughts on it? I am planning on feeding it my twin waves for whats it's worth.

I live in a part of the midwest where the whole try before you buy thing doesn't apply to me. wink

Sidenote: if one of you punks snipe me on one of these.... Dead Banana

Cheers!
stickmann
It is a solid module. Nothing too flashy but it pairs well with the Wave Multipliers module from R*S. I think R*S has a clip with the RM vs VCM which I think it great. It provides saturation for the signal and carrier inputs past 12 o'clock. Modulation is being used on the CV mode in those demos which I think is the most interesting part of the module. It can be used as a VCA if necessary with your signal in, nothing connected to carrier, and an inverted envelope into CV mode.
tbecker
I bought the kit from thonk as soon as they had it, then built it right away and started jamming on it. It sounded cool, but I couldn't get the modulator to not bleed into the sound. Long story short, did the calibration routine again after noticing in the BOM that they were multi-turn trimmers! Wow, it sounds great now and can be a VCA if needed, has lovely shaping on the carrier input and the CV control over mode is what makes this so lovely and unique for patching. It sounds great with the wavemultipliers.

Here is a cool 1-osc patch. Take two waveform outputs on your OSC like sine and saw, or mult a tri-sine into a wave multipliers middle or lower section feeding the clean into the modulator and the folded sound into the carrier. Now wiggle or use some CV on the mode for some really great modulations.

One side note this thing has massive WIMI caps that are like an inch high!
ookrsia
Really interested in this module, please do post any clips if you have any. The R*S demos are never very informative.
tbecker
Apologies for this 3-minute drone. Edit: Limited soundcloud plays, taking it down: 83 plays without a like.
abdul6
@tbecker thanks for that nice demo !
a question related to the builing process :
I think is not a very complicated DIY project but could you tell us more about
the calibration process ? I do not have a dual scope as they mention on the RS site
but maybe could I use two scope plugin in max/msp (as I suppose it is for alignement of some signals ...)

thanks
tbecker
abdul6 wrote:
@tbecker thanks for that nice demo !
a question related to the builing process :
I think is not a very complicated DIY project but could you tell us more about
the calibration process ? I do not have a dual scope as they mention on the RS site
but maybe could I use two scope plugin in max/msp (as I suppose it is for alignement of some signals ...)

thanks


The thonk DIY kit is expensive as far as kits go, but thats because almost all of the work is done for you! Basically it comes loaded with over half of the parts presoldered. You add some resitors, caps, trimmers and board-to-board connectors. I do recommend a scope for calibration, but of course it sounds good without it! The issue is that you need to use three trimmers, the first one helps to null out the singal input when you have the mode to ring. In this way the Ring should act like a DBM (aka feed it a positive cv and it will act like a VCA) the other two trimmers are really needed to ensure that you are symteric about the 0V point which makes it sound very clean and puts the signals into the correct range for other modules. If you can't get a scope, maybe someone can let you borrow one? One last bit not to discourage but, the calibration procedure really needs to be done in the unit it is intended for. If I calibrate it on my intellijel TPS80W it may be abit off on your doepher ps3...
tbecker
abdul6 wrote:
@tbecker thanks for that nice demo !
a question related to the builing process :
I think is not a very complicated DIY project but could you tell us more about
the calibration process ? I do not have a dual scope as they mention on the RS site
but maybe could I use two scope plugin in max/msp (as I suppose it is for alignement of some signals ...)

thanks


Sorry, didn't see the MAX/MSP bit: Yes you could actually use software if your audio interface doesn't have DC blocking caps. There are a few out there that I know of such as RME, Motu that are known for this. Sorry if this discourages you, it is a really cool module when you get it set up!
abdul6
wow, this is a detailed answer, very useful, thank you. I think I will try to get one by Thonk when available.
Well Max/MASP has an object called scope~ which is a ...oscilloscope ;-)
and it works fine, and yes I could use my ES-3 (DC coupled) for this purpose I guess

I use to work already with the ring-mod of a Serge (old one) and it was really good, but this one seems to be as good (maybe even more accurate)
tbecker
[quote="abdul6"]wow, this is a detailed answer, very useful, thank you. I think I will try to get one by Thonk when available.
Well Max/MASP has an object called scope~ which is a ...oscilloscope ;-)
and it works fine, and yes I could use my ES-3 (DC coupled) for this purpose I guess

I use to work already with the ring-mod of a Serge (old one) and it was really good, but this one seems to be as good (maybe even more accurate)[/quote]

The ES3 should be fine for calibration then. It is not very difficult once you have it built and installed in your case. Feel free to post when you get that far. Sorry I don't have any vintage Serge to compare to but I do have a Cwejman VCO-2RM and FSH-1 that it compares well too (both of these need to be calibrated in your case as well by the way). The Ring has a nice carrier shaper and I love the CV on the mode from off to AM to RM, so musical! Good luck!
timoka
thanks tbecker for the demo
abdul6
Quote:
Feel free to post when you get that far


good ! merci ;-)
SlyFrank
I would like to build this. For the calibration I have an O'Tool+. So I have a (small) dual scope. Will that work to calibrate? The O'Tool+ does not allow for different Hz measurements for both waveform displays at once. One has to pick one scale for both waveforms. Since the manual says to have one waveform at 1-2 kHz, and the other at ~50Hz, I don't think I can view both at once accurately with the O'Tool+.

Can I calibrate this with an O'Tool+ ?

Looking at the manual it seems that both inputs are summed to the scope, so maybe this will work, so I am still not sure why it says to calibrate with a dual scope...
tbecker
SlyFrank wrote:
I would like to build this. For the calibration I have an O'Tool+. So I have a (small) dual scope. Will that work to calibrate? The O'Tool+ does not allow for different Hz measurements for both waveform displays at once. One has to pick one scale for both waveforms. Since the manual says to have one waveform at 1-2 kHz, and the other at ~50Hz, I don't think I can view both at once accurately with the O'Tool+.

Can I calibrate this with an O'Tool+ ?

Looking at the manual it seems that both inputs are summed to the scope, so maybe this will work, so I am still not sure why it says to calibrate with a dual scope...


The dual scope is just a 2 channel scope. You will only be tracking the carrier waveform so you are good with the O'Tool+ or a Data unit. Some more details:

In the manual they are telling you to patch a 1KHz waveform into the signal which is close to C6 or basically a higher register on the piano. Then they ask that you patch a slow waveform into carrier 50-100Hz, I went with a C2 note which is 65Hz. First you set your scope to track that slow carrier. Usually this just involves the triggering button on the scope to pick that channel to trigger off of. So you have channel 2 is the C2 carrier and then you have a C6 in the signal and then use channel 1 to see the final Ring output. In the manual the blue graph is the carrier and when you turn up the attenuators on signal and carrier and then engage the AM mode the picture will look just like the manual where the output is yellow. You can see that the rigol scope they use has channel 1 set to yellow (output) and blue (carrier input) is channel 2. Hopefully that will help you set yours up!
SlyFrank
tbecker wrote:
SlyFrank wrote:
I would like to build this. For the calibration I have an O'Tool+. So I have a (small) dual scope. Will that work to calibrate? The O'Tool+ does not allow for different Hz measurements for both waveform displays at once. One has to pick one scale for both waveforms. Since the manual says to have one waveform at 1-2 kHz, and the other at ~50Hz, I don't think I can view both at once accurately with the O'Tool+.

Can I calibrate this with an O'Tool+ ?

Looking at the manual it seems that both inputs are summed to the scope, so maybe this will work, so I am still not sure why it says to calibrate with a dual scope...


The dual scope is just a 2 channel scope. You will only be tracking the carrier waveform so you are good with the O'Tool+ or a Data unit. Some more details:

In the manual they are telling you to patch a 1KHz waveform into the signal which is close to C6 or basically a higher register on the piano. Then they ask that you patch a slow waveform into carrier 50-100Hz, I went with a C2 note which is 65Hz. First you set your scope to track that slow carrier. Usually this just involves the triggering button on the scope to pick that channel to trigger off of. So you have channel 2 is the C2 carrier and then you have a C6 in the signal and then use channel 1 to see the final Ring output. In the manual the blue graph is the carrier and when you turn up the attenuators on signal and carrier and then engage the AM mode the picture will look just like the manual where the output is yellow. You can see that the rigol scope they use has channel 1 set to yellow (output) and blue (carrier input) is channel 2. Hopefully that will help you set yours up!


Great reply - thanks much!
SlyFrank
Probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming this is a true ring of diodes module? i.e. not done with ICs or some other digital implementation? I've read through the website description but can't find the info, but since it's a refinement on a decades-old Serge RM, I'm pretty sure it's a true ring diode configuration...

If yes, I'm ordering this immediately Guinness ftw!
tbecker
SlyFrank wrote:
Probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming this is a true ring of diodes module? i.e. not done with ICs or some other digital implementation? I've read through the website description but can't find the info, but since it's a refinement on a decades-old Serge RM, I'm pretty sure it's a true ring diode configuration...

If yes, I'm ordering this immediately Guinness ftw!


From what I have read there are other more precise ways to make balanced modulators. For example, you can bias a transistor to act as a diode. A diode is basically half of a transistor and so anything that can be done with a diode can be done with the correct transistor and bias circuit. I don't think the rectification in this is diode based but I too would like to know too!
gummyboy
kit and module both out of stock.

Do you know any retailer?
phineas
Gummyboy, check out thonk.co.uk - they have it in stock.
Don't know about shipping rates to Seoul, though....
pugix
I built Ken Stone's version.

http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs79_ring.html

I wonder how the Random Source module compares with it. Do they supply a schematic diagram? They wouldn't have used a CA3080!
gummyboy
phineas wrote:
Gummyboy, check out thonk.co.uk - they have it in stock.


I am really bad at soldering and don't have proper equipment for calibration.... Any store with pre-built one?
tbecker
gummyboy wrote:
phineas wrote:
Gummyboy, check out thonk.co.uk - they have it in stock.


I am really bad at soldering and don't have proper equipment for calibration.... Any store with pre-built one?
you still have to calibrate an analog ring, unless you are using the same power which means country/location/case!
phineas
I think Darrin Wiener has it in stock at patch-point.com

That won't solve the calibration issue, however. But maybe you can find someone to help you with that locally?
Navs
I don't know the specifics of this module, but you should be able to calibrate a RM for nulling by ear.

It's a balancing act as you're trying to ensure that with only one audio input you hear as little of that signal on the output (and then the other input). But if you take your time, it is possible.
Mashmore
gummyboy wrote:
phineas wrote:
Gummyboy, check out thonk.co.uk - they have it in stock.


I am really bad at soldering and don't have proper equipment for calibration.... Any store with pre-built one?


https://reverb.com/item/13182101-random-source-ring-2017-ring-modulato r-with-amplitude-modulation-eurorack
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