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Deep kick with a very percussive attack
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Deep kick with a very percussive attack
Bath House

How do house guys get these sorts of kicks? There's the thick body but then there's a very punchy, percussive attack that's all high-end.

I always felt like the classic daft punk stuff had this as well.
Kick2 vst. Don't tell any further
Or probably any (manual) layering of big, subby, sine/triangle wave kicks with a pitch envelope and then a bright sample on top.
(which is what most "Kick" VSTs do)

you can even use a hihat sample, layer it with the kick, then use another VCA envelope and/or filter (/w envelope) to "glue" it all together, re-sample, done.
Michael O.
The first one sounds like two main samples, one analog/808/909 type on the bottom, and a dry, acoustic or Linn type kick on top, likely pitched up a little. The samples seem to be trimmed in an abrupt way (I.e., the acoustic kick has an unnatural cutoff at the end), and the whole thing may have a very dark short or gated verb on it (or that may just be the way the samples are truncated).

The second one sounds pretty standard 909, with a Linn type kick on every other hit with the other samples. The kick is enveloped with a weird, gritty sounding gated/truncated stereo reverb that I am not digging as much as I did when I was a kid.

In addition to the sample stacking and treatment, the arrangements of these tunes leave a relatively large space for the kicks to fill, and it sounds like the kick is feeding the side chain of a bus compressor on both of these tunes (or it may be the YouTube encoding?).
8 years later, and this is still the best kick drum tutorial I've seen.

Michael O. wrote:
it sounds like the kick is feeding the side chain of a bus compressor on both of these tunes (or it may be the YouTube encoding?).

If I was a betting man I'd bet on that being the case with almost all good (and lots of bad) dance music. Expensive compressors make the difference.
Possibly a SUPER fast envelope pitching up the sound a bit, but definitely a well tweaked compressor to let the transient shoot through while crushing the tail.
Layer the kicks! One heavy at the bottom and a lighter at the top. Do a little bit of compression, but be vary of the attack. Perhaps a bit of saturation.

Or you sample hehe
clever parallel distortion and compression with EQ before the compressor to "drive" it w/ boosted freqs will give you that "hardness", and a sidechain filter on the compressor set to about 160hz or so will help keep the bass freqs from being squashed while giving you that low mid crack that you're after.

in addition, pay VERY close attention to phase, particularly if you're layering kicks. something like the UAD little labs IBP will make this quite easy. simply turn the phase knob until it sounds absolutely terrible (most phase cancellation occurring) and then hit the invert button and/or the 90 degree phase rotation button. very often, things suddenly sound way tighter and you find yourself turning things down because they're already plenty loud. if you're struggling to get volume out of your kick even though it's turned way up, chances are the phase is weird.
naturligfunktion wrote:
Layer the kicks!

+1 but watch out about phase relations!
True, phasing can be a severe problem! But a layered anything tend to sound nice and good smile
That example definitely has at least part of the kick as a sample. You can hear the hat that is part of the sound. I don't mess with layering kicks but when I've mixed projects down for other folks the EQ before a compressor is a handy combo. I've had kicks come in that have very little low end and with the right EQ boost and comp settings you can beef up most anything.
if i mike a kit i always use a RE20 pretty close to the skin/beater. and then use eq to get the low end. works great. i find that that works better then the other way around: putting the mike farther away and using eq to get a clicky sound. use a shelving eq and there is almost no limmit to the amount of depth/lowend you can get. it's all there, you just need to bring it out.
and using two mikes gives you phase-problems. really don't get the ns10-as-mike thing ...
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