STG Envelope Generator vid

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Squattamolie
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STG Envelope Generator vid

Post by Squattamolie » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:59 pm

Yes, yes, I know.....shaky iPad vids aren't great. But I have a patch up with one voice being modulated by an STG EG, and just wanted to show a small bit of why they are so cool.

These EGs have 3 "models" (each essentially turning the module into a different style of ramp generator), and simultaneously the EG has two separate outputs (A & B) and they are both different, and usable separately or together, for each of the three models.

For each of the 3 models, there are 4 "modes": 1) hold, 2) trigger, 3) LFO-A and 4) LFO-B. I'm showing only the first two modes for each of the 3 models.

Also, I'm not modulating any of the EG controls with the sidecar module, so this is showing just some of the variety (without either LFO mode) I'm getting out of one EG with no external modulation.

Something I didn't mention in the vid is that I have the "time scale" control set to "sync". This means that instead of the 4 time controls setting absolute time values (in ms), each is selecting time in musical values (i.e., 32nd notes, 16th triplets, 16th notes etc.). The STG EGs in my system are getting sync from a time buffer module, along with 9 other time suite modules: voltage sequencers, trigger sequencers, Switch modules and clock dividers that also output musical values instead of absolute integer values.

The best aspect of this whole system (IMO) is that it is __rock__ __solid__, works perfectly every time I hit "play", with absolutely tight-as-hell sync (actual 6ms faster than MIDI with _zero_ jitter). I never spend any time testing, troubleshooting or otherwise screwing with any part of the system in order for it to work.

I know it (the Time Suite) is not for everyone, but I suspect that a lot of folks who dismiss it, maybe due to the entry price or it being DIN sync based, would change their mind in a hurry if they got an in-person demo. It's just the absolute coolest sequencing system available IMO.

And yes, I'm an STG fanboy. If that doesn't suit you(!), please prosper elsewhere.....

[video][/video]
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Post by kindredlost » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:40 pm

It's no secret I'm a big STG Soundlabs fanboi too. :stg:

The EG within the Time Suite is amazing. When coupled in the "SYNC" mode it really is the best EG for working with step sequencers for the musical division timings. Also the sidecar brings a factor of ten to the already enormous features.

The stage timing when in standalone or "non-sync" mode is very wide. From inaudibly fast to very, very slow for those long lasting swells and "events" that you need to control. The delay stage is handy especially when in x10 mode. I used to use gate delays a lot but have substituted these EG's for most of those duties now.

The Time Suite is the core of most of my work now. Like you said, it is patently dependable and solid time-wise.

This is a great starter video on the different modes and uses of this envelope generator Squattamolie. I hope to see more tutorial videos. I tend to get lost in making finished pieces and can never concentrate long enough to do a comprehensive demo.

This EG really is flying under the radar for most in the 5U world right now and that is a real shame. An excellent value from my perspective.

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Post by Faustgeist » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:52 pm

I hope to have a Time Suite demo at Knobcon this year and have been eyeing the envelope generator as well. Cheers for the video. How do you find it's companion module?

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Post by JohnLRice » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:25 pm

Thanks for the demo! 8-)

I recently got two of these STG EGs, initially intended for a live use "voice case", and I like them a lot but I at least temporarily abandoned the live case because almost half the Moon modules in it were beta test versions with various issues and my not so bright idea to add duplicate production versions to create a compact dual voice/dual duophonic /pseudo quad voice box wasn't working because the differences between the beta and production versions was too great. :cry:

I put the STG EGs in my main studio 5U system but had to "walk away" from the studio for the most part because of all the live shows coming up! I'll get back to them later this month when things slow down a bit.

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Post by kindredlost » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:32 am

JohnLRice wrote:Thanks for the demo! 8-)

I recently got two of these STG EGs, initially intended for a live use "voice case", and I like them a lot but I at least temporarily abandoned the live case because almost half the Moon modules in it were beta test versions with various issues and my not so bright idea to add duplicate production versions to create a compact dual voice/dual duophonic /pseudo quad voice box wasn't working because the differences between the beta and production versions was too great. :cry:

I put the STG EGs in my main studio 5U system but had to "walk away" from the studio for the most part because of all the live shows coming up! I'll get back to them later this month when things slow down a bit.
A new bend on the "Walk Away" thingy. :lol:

Hey John, need any roadies? Okay then. I'll be your groupie. :hyper:

Seriously. Some of your recent live stuff has been really nice. Keep sharing it for us.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:36 pm

kindredlost wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:I put the STG EGs in my main studio 5U system but had to "walk away" from the studio for the most part because of all the live shows coming up! I'll get back to them later this month when things slow down a bit.
A new bend on the "Walk Away" thingy. :lol:

Hey John, need any roadies? Okay then. I'll be your groupie. :hyper:

Seriously. Some of your recent live stuff has been really nice. Keep sharing it for us.
Image
Thank you kind sir! I could use both roadies and groupies! :hihi:
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:22 am

Yo Squat .... e.x.c.e.l.l.e.n.t. video presentation. No ~ums~ or ~uhs~ ... no croaking voice .... clear and concise vocals ... detailed explanation presented in an organized manner.

Well done! Well done, indeed!

If it were practical I would hire you to narrate/produce upcoming videos I have planned detailing my project synth's capabilities and sonic power. I've been wanting to start doing precisely what you've done here, short, concise, easily watched videos. My family has always said I have that "FM Radio DJ" voice (like what we heard in the 70s on album rock stations). But I've been too You Tube shy (as all hell) to move forward.

Really nice man ... I wish more YT synth vids were as nice.

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Post by ear ear » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:03 am

kindredlost wrote:I tend to get lost in making finished pieces and can never concentrate long enough to do a comprehensive demo.
That's a good problem to have... :)

So, have I got this right?: this EG needs the Time Buffer but not the Time Divider to operate in Sync Mode; when operating in Sync Mode the pots on the EG are setting stage lengths to divisions of the incoming DIN Sync clock signal.

How are the Delay and Hold functions controlled?

More generally, do the Time Suite modules follow instantaneous and gradual tempo changes in the DIN Sync clock signal?
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Post by kindredlost » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:45 am

ear ear wrote:
So, have I got this right?: this EG needs the Time Buffer but not the Time Divider to operate in Sync Mode; when operating in Sync Mode the pots on the EG are setting stage lengths to divisions of the incoming DIN Sync clock signal.

How are the Delay and Hold functions controlled?

More generally, do the Time Suite modules follow instantaneous and gradual tempo changes in the DIN Sync clock signal?
Yes the Time Buffer is all you need to derive the SYNC function.

The Delay function is timed as any other of the time stages are but the Hold is like the Sustain would be in an ADSR cycle. Gate is the key controller. It is a bit more complex than this simple explanation. I recall Suit & Tie Guy making a video or description text or something.

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Post by Squattamolie » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:13 pm

Rex Coil 7 wrote:Well done! Well done, indeed!
Wow, thank you indeed Rex, that's very kind of you to say. For every 20 times I even think about making a vid, I probably make one, or less. The reason is because to even begin approaching the kind of work that some folks do (e.g. JLR, etc.) it takes _so_ much time and editing. But again, thank you for your kind words!
ear ear wrote: So, have I got this right?: this EG needs the Time Buffer but not the Time Divider to operate in Sync Mode; when operating in Sync Mode the pots on the EG are setting stage lengths to divisions of the incoming DIN Sync clock signal.....
Yes, but it could also be phrased like this: all of the STG Time Suite modules, meaning the volt and trigger stores, the switch module and this new EG (everything except the Time Divider), are spec'd out and fully functional modules that also just happen to have a bonus feature: anyone using DIN Sync and a Time Buffer module (whether starting out with it or adding it later) will enjoy an additional, advanced set of capabilities that, IMO, take the system concept to a degree that once you experience it, you will not want to do without.

The new EG is fully functional without using the behind-the-panel time-buffer connection, allowing real-time choices of x.1, x1 and x10 multiples of the front panel settings. Adding the Time Buffer just means that the bonus feature of having the knobs change from selecting time in absolute values to selecting times in musical note values becomes active. I've found this addictive and am planning on selling some of my EGs to buy more of these.

The Time Divider module is unique (in STG's system) in that it is only for people using the Time Buffer - it only works with a behind-the-panel DIN sync signal. That said, it is by far the best clock divider I've used. Having the divisions in musical values (8ths, 16ths, and especially the dotted and triplet values, etc.) is more usable and user/musical friendly than I can easily convey. Note: I also have the STG Integer Dividers (which does not tie into the Time Bus), it is a standard divider, but using it (or any other standard divider) is actually very different from the Time Divider. One of these days I'll get off my lazy butt and make a vid comparing the Time Divider to the Integer Divider - showing that the Time Divider provides division outputs that no standard integer-style divider can match.

Interesting to note: I have (and like) the Moon 568 trigger sequencer, that allows breaking bars into 32 steps. I've found that I cannot duplicate the perfectly exact musical divisions (specifically the dotted and triplet values) of the Time Divider using 32 or even 64 steps (the 568 has a mode that turns it into a 2 x 64 step unit). It may be that I'm overly sensitive to fine timings, all I can say is that I can reliably tell the difference. I have zero tolerance for dividers that don't f%$king line up on the beat like they should. MANY units out there suffer from this. I haven't tried the 128-step mode, because who the heck would want to tie up a $1200+ trigger sequencer just to duplicate one output of a Time Divider? :doh:
ear ear wrote: ...more generally, do the Time Suite modules follow instantaneous and gradual tempo changes in the DIN Sync clock signal?
Absolutely, locked rock solid. I'm a bit of a "DIN Sync Nazi", like a reformed smoker. After passing on DIN sync for years, once I tried it I finally "got" why many very picky people use it: unlike MIDI, it is a hard voltage protocol. There is nothing digital anywhere in the chain. There are no "frames" or "quarter frame messages" or RT-MBC (real-time MIDI beat clock) messages buried in an existing MIDI bitstream. Don't even mention "latency", the concept doesn't even exist in the DIN Sync world. Yes, yes, some anal weasel-snout could point out that even DIN sync has latency - the speed of electricity(!) - but the practical effect and experience is that latency simply doesn't exist. It's pertinent to note that when using MIDI sync, it's not just that the signal is embedded in a MIDI bitstream, but also that the receiving device has to decode and process it - totally unlike DIN sync.

Don't get me wrong, I love MIDI (really, I do, my license plate is MIDIMAN) and have taught it at the college level for years. It's just that I've learned that there is a compelling reason why many people still use DIN sync. The sync is not only solid, it's just more musical, no other way to put it. Tight tight tight. It's very simply 5 volts on or off, and the receiving devices lock and respond incredibly fast and solid. I've used a few MIDI-to-clock boxes (and still have a Moon 553 that - believe it or not - I now use only for the STOP output), and have spent a lot of time comparing and even documenting behavior and time offsets between MIDI sync (of various analog-modular sequencers) and using the STG (DIN Sync) Time bus. Short version: STG/Sync bus wins.

Acknowledging that I'm biased (an STG fanboy), I can only put it like this: if you've ever experienced using a product that was made not to meet a certain price point, but was made to simply do the job to the best degree possible without BS or excuses, that is what I've found with the whole STG Time Suite.

At this point, when I hit PLAY on my master clock, I have a cab with 4 voltage sequencers, two 16-stage trigger sequencers, 2 voltage controlled switches (getting 8ths, 16th, 16th triplets and 32nd notes behind the panel) and 2 EGs that all start 100% consistently in rock solid/tight sync, and all that is without me patching a single thing. Also, I found a number of issues in getting my two Q960s and two Moon trigger sequencers to reset and start correctly (including 4 other VC switches) before using the Time Suite (and that was even with using the Moon 553). I found that the START output pulse and clock signals from the Time divider actually cause all those other sequencers to firm-up and start/sync correctly with everything else. Like I said, an unapologetic STG fanboy.....who likes sushi......what kind of sushi?.....SOSUMI......
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Post by ear ear » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:29 pm

Thanks Squattamolie. It strikes me that these EGs, with their individual stage gate outputs, would be a really fast, playable and user-friendly way of windowing/masking divider outputs...
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Post by Dr Gris » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:46 pm

I don't really get the two outputs. Care to explain?

//M

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:07 am

Dr Gris wrote:I don't really get the two outputs. Care to explain?
//M
The A and B outputs have different shapes/curves! :party: I'm sure there are many uses but personally my main focus has been to use one output to modulate a VCF and the other output to modular a VCA. (instead of using two separate EGs or a double width dual EG)

The first three images of the A output (top) and B output (bottom) use the same following settings except for the Model type:
T1, T2, T3, T4 = 200 M.Sec
Esus = 5 (50%)

Model = ADSR
Image

Model = TRPZD
Image

Model = PYRMD
Image


You may have noticed that the A and B outputs for TRPZD look very similar (other then some phase offset) but this is just because I was using identical timing values for all the controls. Below are more images of the TRPZD with all controls still set to 200 except for the indicated conrol set fully counter clockwise.

T1
Image

T2
Image

T3
Image

T4
Image

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Post by Dr Gris » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:48 am

A bit clearer... Big thanks for taking your time!!
I'm still not sure which output would be the obvious for a VCF vs VCA since they cut each other out at different places depending on what mode :hmm:
Maybe I should just get one... :mrgreen:

//Magnus

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Post by kindredlost » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:29 pm

Superb effort John L Rice. :guinness:

There are quite a few ways the output of two corresponding voltage slews can be used within the modular.

I use the "A" output to an EG in ADSR mode for a kick drum envelope and the "B" output to the driving VCO for sweep to it's pitch. The usual "Dropping BD" sound with only one EG! Efficiency Deluxe.

Just an example...

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Post by ranix » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:02 pm

JohnLRice wrote:
Dr Gris wrote:I don't really get the two outputs. Care to explain?
//M
The A and B outputs have different shapes/curves! :party: I'm sure there are many uses but personally my main focus has been to use one output to modulate a VCF and the other output to modular a VCA.
I'm going to use mine to control linear fm modulator amplitude. You get big differences with fm when you choose different envelope shapes, it's great.

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Post by Dr Gris » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:29 pm

I just bought one (without the sidecar) so I can give it a test in a couple of weeks :mrgreen:

//M

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Post by suitandtieguy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:31 am

really flattered to see this much actual discussion about our EG.

however i wish i had time to digest and respond ... as Tom Oberheim said last year: "On with Knobcon!"
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Post by Dr Gris » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:19 pm

Got it. Don't get it...yet :mrgreen:
Driving two Oakley Journeyman panned hard left/right with the A & B outs to hear how the outs differ.
Crazy stereo sweeps... lots of fun!!!!

These with the sidecar synced to the Time Buffer must be dope.
And again I feel like I should get some STG Time Suite modules although I've made a decision to keep sequencing out of my modular...

//M

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Post by Dr Gris » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:41 am

Don't wanna start a new thread so I'll try my question here.
How does the sync work with this module?
If I get the Time Buffer module and hook this up how will it be triggered?

//M

Edit:
I guess my phrasing is strange...
You say I can get different time divisions out of this depending on pot settings.
So it moves through the stages in a rythmical way?
With the gates out of the sidecar (wich I don't have) it can be used as a trigger sequencer?

Darn, I guess I should just order the Time Buffer and the sidecar if he sells them separate...

//M

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:50 pm

I can't answer your questions Dr Gris since I don't have a time buffer or side car modules etc, but now that I have 4 STG Envelope modules I've been trying to get my head around them more then just guessing. :hihi: I've been able to get the desired results by just "wiggling" them but I'm often scratching my head as to why a particular setting did or didn't work. :hmm: :despair: So hunting around I started to look at the eurorack version of the Envelope and it has some useful information printed on the front of it:

Image

So FWIW I made a cheat sheet for the 5U module. Peeps should let me know if I got something wrong and I'll make a corrected version:

Image

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Post by Huba-Swift » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:11 pm

Great Chart JLR! I've got two of these but haven't been able to fully grasp the functions of the different modes or the difference between outputs A and B. This clears everything right up, thanks.

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Post by Dr Gris » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:38 pm

JLR, you're the man!! :tu:
I'm still in the state of guessing...

//M

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Post by hamildad » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:59 am

for a standard ADSR, would you use ADSR &

Output 1 and T1 to 0

Output 2 and T2 to 0

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