ACL Sinfonion

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HBCoffin
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Post by HBCoffin » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:01 am

I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. :deadbanana:

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Post by XiXora » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:13 am

Mr. Roboto wrote:Just checked the Musicstore website and saw that they‘ve postponed the delivery date by another few weeks for the third time now. :bang:
They tend to be quite optimistic on giving delivery dates even if they don't have the item you are looking at. If you want an actual date, perhaps don't check Musicstore and try another store for a more realistic indicator.

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Mr. Roboto
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Post by Mr. Roboto » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am

Not available in any german shop yet.
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HBCoffin
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Post by HBCoffin » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:47 am

HBCoffin wrote:I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. :deadbanana:
So it seems if the sequencer is active (i.e. SEQ button is illuminated) and I access the clock divider settings in the menu, while on this page it is only a matter of time (3-8 seconds) before the module reboots itself. Can anyone attempt to see if this is a software related issue?

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bkbirge
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Post by bkbirge » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:13 pm

Made it into the rack and powers on. Have to wait until after work to run it through the gauntlet.
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Modular & Dork Rock:
https://bkbirge.bandcamp.com/
Racks:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/88730
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." ~ Puck, 1903

damase
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Post by damase » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:53 pm

-S.L- wrote:Quick recording of a live jam. Friend of mine challenged me using Mutable Instruments Edges, which has a very specific retro game style sounds.

Drums Assimil8or triggered by Doepfer Trigger Sequencer and Four Bricks Rook.

[video][/video]
awesome demo. love your music in general too, a lot of really good recent releases :hail:
sinfonion seems perfect for your style

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-S.L-
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Post by -S.L- » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:18 pm

thanks !

I'd say this was more like a fun jam rather than something serious, still getting used to the thing, discovering a lot and unusual way to use it.

This jam is probably typically what you can do without going too complicated, and it's already amazing :hail:

This is a hell of a module :love:

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Mr. Roboto
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Post by Mr. Roboto » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:05 pm

Anybody else here who could reproduce the problem described by HBCoffin?
Der Sägezahn, der Sägezahn, der hat's mir angetan.

Less talk, more action!

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Post by Milanski » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:08 pm

Mr. Roboto wrote:Anybody else here who could reproduce the problem described by HBCoffin?
Yep, same thing happens here :woah:

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bkbirge
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Post by bkbirge » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:10 pm

Milanski wrote:
Mr. Roboto wrote:Anybody else here who could reproduce the problem described by HBCoffin?
Yep, same thing happens here :woah:
And here as well. But it doesn't seem like a reboot, just a time out to the splash screen, all my settings remain the same and I don't have any glitches when it does so.

Modular & Dork Rock:
https://bkbirge.bandcamp.com/
Racks:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/88730
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." ~ Puck, 1903

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Mr. Roboto
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Post by Mr. Roboto » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:12 am

So let's hope that this is not a hardware problem and can be easily fixed in a Firmware update.
Der Sägezahn, der Sägezahn, der hat's mir angetan.

Less talk, more action!

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denoise
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Post by denoise » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:26 am

you are right, I just tested it and that happens with mine too. I don't know if it is resetings itself, but something strange happens with the taster lights.
Anyway, I think that is something that can be resolved with a firmware update.

btw. I'm still running the beta 5 firmware. Which version do you have?

HBCoffin wrote:
HBCoffin wrote:I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. :deadbanana:
So it seems if the sequencer is active (i.e. SEQ button is illuminated) and I access the clock divider settings in the menu, while on this page it is only a matter of time (3-8 seconds) before the module reboots itself. Can anyone attempt to see if this is a software related issue?

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Der Mann mit der Maschine
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Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:13 am

HBCoffin wrote:I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. :deadbanana:
Hey guys,

of course this pretty much looks like a software issue. I'm just wondering, why I haven't recognized this myself. The reason is probably that I have established a habit to close the menu after setting the clock divider...

My suggestion here:

1. I try to reproduce and solve the issue. Shouldn't be too hard since several of you could reproduce this.

2. You simply close the menu after changing the clock divider for the while. This should be stable since I use this for years.

Here is some background information for those that are interested: The Sinfonion has a hardware watchdog. This is some circuit that automatically resets the Sinfonion when its main loop does not push a virtual "button" every second or so. It's the same idea as a dead man's switch in a train. And because the Sinfonion always automatically saves everything to flash (except the current sequence step number) and because the DACs output values do not change during a reboot and because the Sinfonion really boots very fast (couple of ms) most times you won't notice this. The splash screen does not reflect the boot time. It simply lingers around in order to be visible. The module is already working in the background.

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HBCoffin
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Post by HBCoffin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:17 am

Thanks for testing, everyone. :tu:

I'm sorry to hear we're all experiencing the same issue, but happy to discover I don't have to arrange for an RMA.
denoise wrote:btw. I'm still running the beta 5 firmware. Which version do you have?
My Sinfonion is running on the standard firmware that was shipped with the module (1.0).

I'm sure it can be fixed with an update. It appears to be working just fine when Mathias is running the sequencer and accessing the clock divider settings starting at 3:53 in Episode 5 of his Sinfonion series on YouTube:



He sticks around the settings page long enough that it should have behaved in a similar manner as we have witnessed.

I've yet to hear anything after contacting support via e-mail, but it's only been about 24 hours.

Hopefully it is something that can be fixed sooner than later. The ability to access and tweak clock divider settings while running the sequencer seems pretty important, to me at least. I came across the issue as I was trying to determine a timing that felt right for a chord progression I was working on.
I would imagine anyone wanting to perform with the module would like to access these settings and change division on the fly while a sequence is running. As of now, it would be risky to do so in a live setting.

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Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:26 am

Supermathi wrote:
HBCoffin wrote:I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. :deadbanana:
Hey guys,

of course this pretty much looks like a software issue. I'm just wondering, why I haven't recognized this myself. The reason is probably that I have established a habit to close the menu after setting the clock divider...

My suggestion here:

1. I try to reproduce and solve the issue. Shouldn't be too hard since several of you could reproduce this.

2. You simply close the menu after changing the clock divider for the while. This should be stable since I use this for years.

Here is some background information for those that are interested: The Sinfonion has a hardware watchdog. This is some circuit that automatically resets the Sinfonion when its main loop does not push a virtual "button" every second or so. It's the same idea as a dead man's switch in a train. And because the Sinfonion always automatically saves everything to flash (except the current sequence step number) and because the DACs output values do not change during a reboot and because the Sinfonion really boots very fast (couple of ms) most times you won't notice this. The splash screen does not reflect the boot time. It simply lingers around in order to be visible. The module is already working in the background.
I've just had a look into the code. I guess I have an idea alreay. And that would perfectly explain why it only happens when SEQ is on.

So please avoid keeping the menu open in that page! Simply close it immediately after you have set the clock divider. Or switch it back or forth to another page!

Keeping the page open in non sequenced mode should be save.

Sorry for this glitch - this is exactly that kind of problem that is very hard to find in your own tests. You need at least a couple of dozen users until one of them has the bad (or good?) luck to stumble exactly into that pit. :bang:

The next firmware will definitely fix this problem. And maybe others that we still do not know about yet :eek:

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Post by HBCoffin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 am

Supermathi wrote:2. You simply close the menu after changing the clock divider for the while. This should be stable since I use this for years.
I would consider this a solid workaround if it only occurred after being on the menu page for 8-10 seconds without any input from the user. However, I ran one more test, and regardless of whether you simply leave the menu open or you are scrolling through the division options, if you stick around that page too long it will act as noted.
Supermathi wrote:I've just had a look into the code. I guess I have an idea alreay. And that would perfectly explain why it only happens when SEQ is on.

So please avoid keeping the menu open in that page! Simply close it immediately after you have set the clock divider. Or switch it back or forth to another page!

Keeping the page open in non sequenced mode should be save.

Sorry for this glitch - this is exactly that kind of problem that is very hard to find in your own tests. You need at least a couple of dozen users until one of them has the bad (or good?) luck to stumble exactly into that pit. :bang:

The next firmware will definitely fix this problem. And maybe others that we still do not know about yet :eek:
Thanks for looking into it Mathias! It is something I can learn to live with for the time being, but it would definitely be nice to have fixed in the next update. :mrgreen:

So far the behavior is only expressed while accessing the clock divider settings, at least to my knowledge. Leaving the menu open while accessing any other settings causes no such issue. I'll be sure to make note of anything else if I run into trouble.

Other than that, the module has been very inspiring. :tu:

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Post by damase » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:26 pm

-S.L- wrote:thanks !

I'd say this was more like a fun jam rather than something serious, still getting used to the thing, discovering a lot and unusual way to use it.

This jam is probably typically what you can do without going too complicated, and it's already amazing :hail:

This is a hell of a module :love:
youve said it all right there though... staying uncomplicated on the Sinfonion, is still ground breaking as far as modular control goes. and to note that a “fun jam” is a beautiful thing that you can worry less about the collective syncronized composition and just sit back and finesse the instrument

side note, would be cool to have a breakout for the patch bay... just thinking out loud but while im attempting to see how i can work in this module to my racks, its apparent that the cohesiveness crumbles a bit with just a 6u rack, as its meant to be the heart of control... but it takes up so much space only if only 6u is there. it would just be cool to put sinfonion controller in a skiff or pod and then have patch points up in the 6u synth

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Post by gwpt » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Just got mine and loving it so far. lots of lots of fun.

One thing I can't seem to get it to do (Maybe a feature request) is to assign Bypass to one of the Inputs.

I'd like to be able to turn the quantiser on and off with a footpedal

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Post by batch » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:53 pm

Been playing with mine for the last two days but still on the same basic patch I started with. This is because it’s just fantastic and can’t being myself to unpatch it yet. Lost the first day playing with the arpeggiator - it’s lots of fun and creates some beautiful melodies when clocked with a different pattern to the master. Lost today by patching up my theremin which has been in a cupboard for a good while. The autogate feature is just fantastic. I now sound like I am a virtuoso on the theremin.

It’s really fun.

Though my wife and kids think I have finally lost it as am sitting in my studio waving my hands around, conjuring magic melodies from the air.

Anyway - I have a big system and have to say that this module really does feel like it’s the key to unlocking it all. Which is exactly what I was hoping for. Really awesome.
FS: Erica Synths Hi-Hats D $175, Cymbals $175, Stereo Mixer v2 $100, Intellijel 1U Pedal IO $70, MIDI $110, Rebel Tech Bit Reactor $95

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Post by NotHerbert » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:36 pm

Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?

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Post by Milanski » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:23 am

NotHerbert wrote:Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?
I've not made the purchases yet, but want to hook up my JX3-P to the synfonion for chords so was looking at buying 2x Doepfer A-192-2 CV/Gate to Midi modules. Would these do what you're after?

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Post by NotHerbert » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:34 am

Milanski wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?
I've not made the purchases yet, but want to hook up my JX3-P to the synfonion for chords so was looking at buying 2x Doepfer A-192-2 CV/Gate to Midi modules. Would these do what you're after?
No, that's not what I'm describing. I'm talking about processing already existing MIDI data, like from a MIDI sequencer or controller keyboard. To do that with an A192-2, you'd need to first convert the MIDI to CV with another module, then run it through the Sinfonion, then convert it back to MIDI with the A192. Even then, you'd lose most of the polyphony and probably some controller data like aftertouch or CCs, depending on what your MIDI-to-CV and CV-to-MIDI modules are able to preserve.

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Post by atimbral » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:07 pm

One of the biggest questions I had when deciding whether to buy one of these was, what could you do with random voltages controlling chord qualities with all those CV INs? Here’s 3 tracks of Eloquencer randomness to a Spherical Wavetable Navigator through the Sinfonions chord section. A Plonk marimba doubles the “lead” line. Envelopes provided by the Natural Gate.

https://soundcloud.com/atimbral/sinfoni ... rd-snippet
There’s a bunch of possibilities with this type of patch; the SWN is an easy pairing with the Sinfonion!

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Post by mdoudoroff » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:32 pm

Delivered Friday, but naturally, I was out of town all weekend.

Hooked it up, tuned up, got chord, arp and bass going immediately out of the box. Very immediate, VERY EXCITING!

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Post by danishchairs » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:55 pm

atimbral wrote: ... Here’s 3 tracks of Eloquencer randomness to a Spherical Wavetable Navigator through the Sinfonions chord section. A Plonk marimba doubles the “lead” line. Envelopes provided by the Natural Gate.
That’s really nice to listen to!

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