ACL Sinfonion

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-S.L-
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Post by -S.L- » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:24 am

something new from Marthias, labelled as MK, probably made by VPME.DE

seemsto be some sort of external controller or preset manager for the Sinfonion, but that is purely speculation based on that short video


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guigui
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Post by guigui » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:52 am

-S.L- wrote:something new from Marthias, labelled as MK, probably made by VPME.DE

seemsto be some sort of external controller or preset manager for the Sinfonion, but that is purely speculation based on that short video

And there's the module with two knobs and some buttons called P2B8 that appeared on the post previous to that ( ) and now shows interesting labels:


Image

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-S.L-
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Post by -S.L- » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:01 pm

some Degree and clock divider instant change rather than turning knobs :party:

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guigui
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Post by guigui » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:19 pm

-S.L- wrote:some Degree and clock divider instant change rather than turning knobs :party:
It seems to be part of a little DROID system. So what would the DROID Master do?

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Post by -S.L- » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:29 pm

i have no clue :party: :mrgreen:

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Post by soundframes » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:16 pm

@second_breakfast
A little advice if you can, since I understand you own(ed) both sinfonian and harmonaig (and chords):
What path would you take (if you had to choose only one) to have heavy live manipulating possibilities over the sequences (pitch, gates, melodic/rhythmic modulations) and chord progressions + roots/scale changes and transpositions while keeping the harmony always together for all the different voices (say classic bass leads chords)?

1
some lfos (or...), say MI marbles since can spit both cv and gates (or dedicated modules with deeper/more accurate modulation over cv/gates in) + sinfonion
2
A more "playable" sequencer/modulation source like voltage block+varigate (or whatever source of quantized cv/gates) + harmonaig?

What would be your preferred way to access ease of live manipulation of different sequence parameters (per four different sequences) while keeping all the voices harmony together?

All advices very much appreciated ;)
The Sinfonian looks amazing anyway for the comprehensive functionality. My main concern are the possible constrictions given by the degrees/modes organisation driving the composition onto too linear/static binaries, basically handling the variety over the harmonic coherence tendency (but this is just a personal interpretation of what I read about it), the rhythmic aspect and the buttons as an interface just because I personally prefer knobs and sliders... But yes, the sinfonion looks incredible anyway!! ;)
second_breakfast wrote:I'm still new to Sinfonion but I come to it with an decent understanding of music theory. Here is what initially threw me off because it's different than other "smart quantizers" I have (Instruo Harmonaig and Qu-bit Chords 2). In those two modules you pick a single scale and then feed the module v/oct cv and the quantizer automatically creates diatonic chords for all the different scale degrees (for a major scale: I maj7, ii min7, iii min7, IV maj7, V 7, vi min7, vii dim7).
This makes for idiot proof harmonic chord changes. Just pick a single scale and you're good to go. This is all good unless you want to implement chord substitutions from other modes or scales, which you can't do in the automatic harmony mode.

As far as I can tell so far (please let me know if I'm wrong), while Sinfonion is able to keep many voices in harmony within a single scale, it's not setup for automatic diatonic chord changes in the same way as Harmonaig or Chords 2. You have know a bit of functional harmony and manually program your chord changes by hand using the sequencer or setting up a group of presets. The flip side of this is that it's very easy to substitute chords from other modes/scales for added effect whenever you want.

TLDR - you need a small amount of music theory knowledge to unlock the harmonic power of Sinfonion.

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Post by Milanski » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:41 am

guigui wrote:
Milanski wrote:Update: MIDI signal now present but am not getting chords out of the module, only arpeggios. Currently messaging Os over on the General CV forum about this but if anyone in the meantime can shed any light, that would be ace.

I think (when it works) this will be a great way to use the sinfonion/modular in combination with external synths, for anyone that is interested in doing this, but for now I'll shut up on this thread about it as it's not 100% about the Sinfonion (which is working brilliantly so far!).
I'm really interested in the outcome of that, because that may be the perfect polyphony solution for me.
Ok, so with help from the venerable Os, we concluded that my gate lengths were too short :doh:

I now have the Sinfonion sending 4xCV from the chord section to the General CV which in turn is transmitting the corresponding notes via the MIDI breakout to my polysynths (JX3P and MS6 in my case) - and it's glorious!

I highly recommend the GCV for this job as it's highly configurable.

For anyone needing some basic guidance (I wish I had some at the start) you use Program Mode to configure 4 of the inputs to transmit midi data to the same midi channel out and configure the X or Y inputs to receive your gates. Once you have 'Enabled Midi' and 'Forward Midi' (and made sure all velocities are at 127 (or loud enough to hear)) the module should simply give you a Midi copy of the CV outs of the chord section of the Sinfonion. I guess there's nothing stopping you from using the other outputs of the sinfonion to play other external mono synths. Brilliant!

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Post by Lomoring » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:57 am

Any idea when the next batch will be available?

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Post by guigui » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:32 pm

Milanski wrote:
guigui wrote:
Milanski wrote:Update: MIDI signal now present but am not getting chords out of the module, only arpeggios. Currently messaging Os over on the General CV forum about this but if anyone in the meantime can shed any light, that would be ace.

I think (when it works) this will be a great way to use the sinfonion/modular in combination with external synths, for anyone that is interested in doing this, but for now I'll shut up on this thread about it as it's not 100% about the Sinfonion (which is working brilliantly so far!).
I'm really interested in the outcome of that, because that may be the perfect polyphony solution for me.
Ok, so with help from the venerable Os, we concluded that my gate lengths were too short :doh:

I now have the Sinfonion sending 4xCV from the chord section to the General CV which in turn is transmitting the corresponding notes via the MIDI breakout to my polysynths (JX3P and MS6 in my case) - and it's glorious!

I highly recommend the GCV for this job as it's highly configurable.

For anyone needing some basic guidance (I wish I had some at the start) you use Program Mode to configure 4 of the inputs to transmit midi data to the same midi channel out and configure the X or Y inputs to receive your gates. Once you have 'Enabled Midi' and 'Forward Midi' (and made sure all velocities are at 127 (or loud enough to hear)) the module should simply give you a Midi copy of the CV outs of the chord section of the Sinfonion. I guess there's nothing stopping you from using the other outputs of the sinfonion to play other external mono synths. Brilliant!
That's very nice to hear! I plan to use that with Hydrasynth.

Which synth are you using that with?

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Post by Milanski » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:35 am

JX-3P and Cheetah MS6

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Post by Hirsbro » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:10 am

Sinfonion + VCMC anyone tried that?

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Post by soundframes » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 am

Hirsbro wrote:Sinfonion + VCMC anyone tried that?
Same!! Anyone who tried and can report?

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Post by nano_granny » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:33 am

Hirsbro wrote:Sinfonion + VCMC anyone tried that?
I am also wondering this as it's almost the same price for the kit as the General CV

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Post by guigui » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:13 pm

nano_granny wrote:
Hirsbro wrote:Sinfonion + VCMC anyone tried that?
I am also wondering this as it's almost the same price for the kit as the General CV
What are the fundamental differences between VCMC and General CV?

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Post by Milanski » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:08 am

I just came across the VCMC, looks cool but the GCV has loads of other functions which definitely justifies it's place in my rack.

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Post by -S.L- » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 am

what is VCMC ?

edit> BEFACO VCMC

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Post by nano_granny » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:21 am

-S.L- wrote:what is VCMC ?

edit> BEFACO VCMC
https://www.befaco.org/en/vcmc/

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Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:47 am

On paper, the Befaco VCMC should be well suited to connecting the Sinfonion to MIDI gear. The 1v/o mode for will bring together the Sinfonion pitch with whatever modular-produced gate you want to derive a MIDI note. The notes mode generates MIDI notes based on pitch changes. The other modes can translate CV to CC and other MIDI messages. There are eight “blocks” so you can patch up to eight voices (or any combo of voices and other kinds of messages) through a single VCMC. Seems straightforward, direct, and well documented.

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Post by nano_granny » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:48 am

mdoudoroff wrote:On paper, the Befaco VCMC should be well suited to connecting the Sinfonion to MIDI gear. The 1v/o mode for will bring together the Sinfonion pitch with whatever modular-produced gate you want to derive a MIDI note. The notes mode generates MIDI notes based on pitch changes. The other modes can translate CV to CC and other MIDI messages. There are eight “blocks” so you can patch up to eight voices (or any combo of voices and other kinds of messages) through a single VCMC. Seems straightforward, direct, and well documented.
Thanks MrD.. I have a question, so the VCMC can cater for all 8 note outs of the Sinfonion, so basically all of them. I've attempted to work out how many the GCV caters for, but it's not clear to me in the manual. Is it 7 outs maximum?

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Post by Graffie » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:32 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:This is one reason why I'm using the Quadnic for chords - Same hp as 4 Pico VCOs, but bigger knobs and more waveforms and functionality.
Not only that, one Quadnic costs less than two 2hp VCOs and costs 40% of one A-111-4. For chords, seems like it might be a no-brainer. It’s a bit of a strange module with abysmal marketing. The demo videos are poor and the documentation sketchy.

I’m also eyeing Chords 2 in its quad oscillator mode, but that costs $100 more.
Some experiences I had when testing out these oscilators in combination with the Sinfonion. To me both of them have downsides which made me reconsider these modules as compact VCO solutions.

Quadnic
Big workflow downside. It doesn't save your settings. In practise this means. Every time you turn on your rig you'll have to: select the oscilator you want to edit, turn up the volume (with the exeption of osc 1), select the desired waveform, tune the osc. And then you'll have to repeat this proces 3 times. Not much fun.

Chord v2
When in free poly mode. All the knobs seem to adjust pitch in semi-tones and there is currently no way to fine-tune. Also it seemed to get out of tune when playing chord over several octaves. Maybe it can be fixed in a firmware update tho, but in its current state my impression is thats its not that great of a solution.

I did find another module which might be interesting as a compact multi voice oscilator. Its the Chainsaw bij Acid Rain. Its digital, just 4hp, has 3 v/oct inputs and a stereo out. And in my testing it seemed to track fine over a wide arange of octaves. So altough the stereo out might be a downside for some, for me its still great for most chord duties.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/acid-rain ... y-chainsaw

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Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:14 pm

Thank you for the report! Seems like there’s an emerging niche for a high density multi-oscillator that minimizes tuning headaches.

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Post by Clumsy » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:16 pm

Graffie wrote: Chord v2
When in free poly mode. All the knobs seem to adjust pitch in semi-tones and there is currently no way to fine-tune. Also it seemed to get out of tune when playing chord over several octaves. Maybe it can be fixed in a firmware update tho, but in its current state my impression is thats its not that great of a solution.
In the poly modes the "harm" button selects quantization types. When the light is off there is no quantization and the tuning knobs in Free Poly mode are smooth. In the Unison Poly mode you only need to tune once with the coarse and fine tuning knobs. It's only "unison" until you send the oscillators different pitch CV. My test this morning seemed to show the Chord V2 tracks five octaves (possibly 0 to 5 volts?) and above or below that the result seems random.

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Post by guigui » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:21 pm

He's back again:



Judging by the pattern of the lights on the buttons modules, it seems to be some sort of sequencer.

I didn't get the labels on the buttons. BD, SD, HH, LEN(GTH ?), VAR, a little dice (random ?), SD off, Fill.

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Post by Graffie » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:34 pm

Clumsy wrote:
Graffie wrote: Chord v2
When in free poly mode. All the knobs seem to adjust pitch in semi-tones and there is currently no way to fine-tune. Also it seemed to get out of tune when playing chord over several octaves. Maybe it can be fixed in a firmware update tho, but in its current state my impression is thats its not that great of a solution.
In the poly modes the "harm" button selects quantization types. When the light is off there is no quantization and the tuning knobs in Free Poly mode are smooth. In the Unison Poly mode you only need to tune once with the coarse and fine tuning knobs. It's only "unison" until you send the oscillators different pitch CV. My test this morning seemed to show the Chord V2 tracks five octaves (possibly 0 to 5 volts?) and above or below that the result seems random.
I missed that during my testing :doh:. 5 octaves tracking does corresponds with the manual stating the V/Oct and Lead input only accept a voltage range of 0-5 volts. So I guess it should be fine afterall.

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Post by StoneAgeOfTheFuture » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 pm

guigui wrote:I didn't get the labels on the buttons. BD, SD, HH, LEN(GTH ?), VAR, a little dice (random ?), SD off, Fill.
From right to left, they look like the channels he used for sequencing for the High hat, Snare Drum, Bass drum. Each of those look like they have their own variability attenuator. I love the variability on the Eloquencer and Varigate 8, so maybe this is similar.

For the next two channels, Snare Drum off, and (drum fill?) are a little confusing for me. But maybe this just has to do with how Matias made that particular patch. Maybe they override/apply to the previous three channels

If the Dice is just a random generator that can be applied to each channel, that could be super handy for quickly creating fun patterns.

Can't wait to learn more! Maybe this will replace my Eloquencer :love:

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