ACL Sinfonion

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scott.lepore
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11ths, 13ths

Post by scott.lepore » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:38 pm

I noticed the other day that my unit was playing roots, 3rds, 5ths and 7ths but no 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. I'd like to confirm everything is working properly. Any suggestions as to how to generate them?

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Re: 11ths, 13ths

Post by StoneAgeOfTheFuture » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:58 pm

scott.lepore wrote:I noticed the other day that my unit was playing roots, 3rds, 5ths and 7ths but no 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. I'd like to confirm everything is working properly. Any suggestions as to how to generate them?
I don't mean to ask a dumb question, but is it possible you weren't sending any 9ths 11ths and 13ths to the Sinfonion?

Or, if you send a 1/root and only turn on 11, what happens?

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Re: 11ths, 13ths

Post by scott.lepore » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:01 am

StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:I don't mean to ask a dumb question, but is it possible you weren't sending any 9ths 11ths and 13ths to the Sinfonion?

Or, if you send a 1/root and only turn on 11, what happens?
Thanks for your reply. Not a dumb question at all! (you can never tell if a person is making a super-basic mistake)

I've tried inputting a variety of voltages ranging from random 0-5V (2hp rndm), continuous 0-10V (Mutable Frames) and even V/oct pre-quantized values from a sequencer (Audio Damage SEQ-1) without luck. I set the sequencer to send C2-C3 naturals and set Sinfonion to C Major and got 9ths to play however the 11ths and 13ths didn't trigger. Instead Sinfonion continues the previous value (3rd and 5th) and the button lights don't brighten.

I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my testing method.

-------Update-------------

I just tried feeding Sinfonion the same pre-quantized, C Major scale (C2-C3) and tried different values for the xV/Oct setting.

Here's what I saw:

1V/Oct - root,9,3,11,5,13,7,root (+1oct) Hooray!
2V/Oct - root,9,9,9,3,3,11,5
3V/Oct - 13,13,13,7,7,7,root,root
5V/Oct - 11,11,5,5,5,5,5,5

Additional details: the Trigger Time Window is set to 4ms, root,3,5,7,9,11, and 13 buttons are on, and the sequencer is running at about 30 BPM.

So, apparently, my unit is quantizing properly at 1V/octave however I'm uncertain as to why the octave divide-down modes are producing these values.

Any suggestions?

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Post by mdoudoroff » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:58 am

I’d think that if you wanted to verify the behavior of the Sinfonion, you’d first want to minimize the variables. I would start by patching a static offset voltage (e.g., joystick) into Sinfonion and manually manipulate that voltage (very slowly) to verify the Sinfonion is behaving as expected. (It probably is.) A scope makes this all very precise, but you can do it by just watching the lights.

Requantizing pre-quantized voltages is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but what exact voltages are actually reaching the Sinfonion from your sequencer? You could verify those with a scope, but otherwise it’s tricky.

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Der Mann mit der Maschine
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Re: 11ths, 13ths

Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:23 am

scott.lepore wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:I don't mean to ask a dumb question, but is it possible you weren't sending any 9ths 11ths and 13ths to the Sinfonion?

Or, if you send a 1/root and only turn on 11, what happens?
Thanks for your reply. Not a dumb question at all! (you can never tell if a person is making a super-basic mistake)

I've tried inputting a variety of voltages ranging from random 0-5V (2hp rndm), continuous 0-10V (Mutable Frames) and even V/oct pre-quantized values from a sequencer (Audio Damage SEQ-1) without luck. I set the sequencer to send C2-C3 naturals and set Sinfonion to C Major and got 9ths to play however the 11ths and 13ths didn't trigger. Instead Sinfonion continues the previous value (3rd and 5th) and the button lights don't brighten.

I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my testing method.

-------Update-------------

I just tried feeding Sinfonion the same pre-quantized, C Major scale (C2-C3) and tried different values for the xV/Oct setting.

Here's what I saw:

1V/Oct - root,9,3,11,5,13,7,root (+1oct) Hooray!
2V/Oct - root,9,9,9,3,3,11,5
3V/Oct - 13,13,13,7,7,7,root,root
5V/Oct - 11,11,5,5,5,5,5,5

Additional details: the Trigger Time Window is set to 4ms, root,3,5,7,9,11, and 13 buttons are on, and the sequencer is running at about 30 BPM.

So, apparently, my unit is quantizing properly at 1V/octave however I'm uncertain as to why the octave divide-down modes are producing these values.

Any suggestions?
One thing that would explain all this comes to my mind: "Harmonic Shift". Are you using
that CV? Or have you mapped that to one of the pots? This creates exactly the harmonic
"reduction" that you are describing here. At aprox 12 o'clock the reduction removes 9, 11 and 13.

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Post by BlackDoors » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:36 pm

My beloved Sinfonion seems to be behaving not quite right. Intermittently not responding to button presses (the little menu buttons etc), and the arpeggio range setting is a little unstable when turned up (the module keeps intermittently displaying the arp range and sometimes this moves around a bit without turning the knob).

I suspected a power or interference issue so moved Sinfonion to a separate different ‘quarantine’ case with no other modules but it’s the same. Could I be missing something?

Have emailed ACL support and will see how I get on.

John

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Post by NotHerbert » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:54 pm

I've also had the problem with the menu buttons not responding, or triggering multiple times for one press. Some days they work fine, but others they barely work at all. I hope there's a fix for this.

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Post by cioaudio » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:22 pm

NotHerbert wrote:I've also had the problem with the menu buttons not responding, or triggering multiple times for one press. Some days they work fine, but others they barely work at all. I hope there's a fix for this.
Fortunately button debounce can only be done properly in code, so there's hope I suppose.
Well, you can't do it with analogue electronics I mean.

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Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:04 am

cioaudio wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:I've also had the problem with the menu buttons not responding, or triggering multiple times for one press. Some days they work fine, but others they barely work at all. I hope there's a fix for this.
Fortunately button debounce can only be done properly in code, so there's hope I suppose.
Well, you can't do it with analogue electronics I mean.
The small gray buttons stucking seems to be a problem that happened a couple of times. It seems to be flux that gets into the buttons while soldering and that can be removed by means of pure alcohol. Please contact your vendor if the sticking is not going away. Or contact ACL please. I'm sure they know a solution.

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Post by Audiodaan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:43 am

I love using the Song mode to trigger sequence steps manually at will. But sometimes I want to sequence these steps via CV, and this overrides the ability to manually trigger the steps. I would like to be able to quickly choose between one or the other, but now I need to dive into the menu and disable the input CV.

Is there another, perhaps speedier and more intuitive method to switch between manually triggering song steps and sequencing them with ext CV?

Thanks

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Post by mdoudoroff » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:48 am

Audiodaan, this is probably not the sort of suggestion you’re looking for, but a simple playable sequencer like Dnipro Metamorph is one option.

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Post by Audiodaan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:24 am

mdoudoroff wrote:Audiodaan, this is probably not the sort of suggestion you’re looking for, but a simple playable sequencer like Dnipro Metamorph is one option.
Thank you, that could work - but that means i'd be limited to 4 sequencer steps, I think (or 8 when linking two)? I need to study that module closer to understand it better.

Ideally there would be something similar to the song's Live Mode to allow switching between external input and live playing of the Sinfonion button grid.

-- Edit:
Especially as you can't seem to edit the sequence steps anymore either, when a CV input is assigned. You have to turn off the CV in first before you can change your steps, IIRC (not sitting in front of it now).

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Post by mdoudoroff » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:34 am

Audiodaan wrote:Thank you, that could work - but that means i'd be limited to 4 sequencer steps, I think (or 8 when linking two)? I need to study that module closer to understand it better.
I woudn’t get hung up on the Metamorph itself—it’s just one option (that I happen to use, and a great value for what it does). There’s a cliche that Eurorackers tend to collect a lot of fancy modules but then forget to get the tools they need to actually play them. (I was guilty of this for a while.) With the right utility modules and/or utility sequencers, it should be possible to patch together whatever trigger and/or cv sources you need to make Sinfonion dance pretty effectively.
Audiodaan wrote:Ideally there would be something similar to the song's Live Mode to allow switching between external input and live playing of the Sinfonion button grid.
Maybe. Or maybe that would just be a crutch? The Sinfonion has a great interface for playing each quantizer, but it doesn’t really have a great interface for playing the scale sequencer. I don’t see such a toggle as solving that problem.

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Post by Audiodaan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:40 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Audiodaan wrote:Thank you, that could work - but that means i'd be limited to 4 sequencer steps, I think (or 8 when linking two)? I need to study that module closer to understand it better.
I woudn’t get hung up on the Metamorph itself—it’s just one option (that I happen to use, and a great value for what it does). There’s a cliche that Eurorackers tend to collect a lot of fancy modules but then forget to get the tools they need to actually play them. (I was guilty of this for a while.) With the right utility modules and/or utility sequencers, it should be possible to patch together whatever trigger and/or cv sources you need to make Sinfonion dance pretty effectively.
Audiodaan wrote:Ideally there would be something similar to the song's Live Mode to allow switching between external input and live playing of the Sinfonion button grid.
Maybe. Or maybe that would just be a crutch? The Sinfonion has a great interface for playing each quantizer, but it doesn’t really have a great interface for playing the scale sequencer. I don’t see such a toggle as solving that problem.
Yeah, that's fair. In my case however, I enjoy using the button grid in Song mode and it works well for me as an interface to trigger my various progressions/transpositions/chord changes at will. So I'd prefer to not have to add another module to do the same thing. I also prefer to keep the actual sequencing of those steps in the place I already do that (the Vector) as then I can use the playlist and/or scenes in that sequencer to go through various pre-programmed progressions.

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Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:43 am

Audiodaan wrote:I love using the Song mode to trigger sequence steps manually at will. But sometimes I want to sequence these steps via CV, and this overrides the ability to manually trigger the steps. I would like to be able to quickly choose between one or the other, but now I need to dive into the menu and disable the input CV.

Is there another, perhaps speedier and more intuitive method to switch between manually triggering song steps and sequencing them with ext CV?

Thanks
I think currently switching the CV function back and forth in the menu is really the only way. At least I cannot think of another way right now.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:15 pm

I made a quick demo of setting up the Qu-bit Chord 2 as the chord oscillator for the Sinfonion. Enjoy!

[video][/video]

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Post by Tomorrow Sounds Good » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Thinking about getting one of these ?

Wonder what current owners consider the pros and cons ?


Thanks

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Post by mdoudoroff » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Tomorrow Sounds Good wrote:Wonder what current owners consider the pros and cons ?
I haven’t thought of any cons besides the obvious size and cost considerations, which seem pretty in-line for what it the module is.

So far, I’m enamored of the Sinfonion. It is, in many ways, now the heart of my modular.

One thing I would point out is that—for all its complexity—you can also use the Sinfonion very simply. It’s considerably quicker to set up than O&C for pedestrian quantization purposes. It’s ready: just patch and go. All those buttons—a big part of what you’re paying for—keep it easy and immediate.

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Post by resynthesize » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:28 am

hey guys, I've had the instruo harmonaig for awhile and just got the sinfonian. the harmonaig quantizes chord changes diatonically, meaning that when it is configured to quantize to c minor for example, a C at the quantize input results in a C minor chord, while an Ab results in an Ab major.

Is this type of diatonic chord quantization possible with the sinfonian? when i send a pitch cv to the chord IN input, it seems to just affect the inversions or spread (in other words, the root note doesn't seem to change).

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Post by Tomorrow Sounds Good » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:36 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Tomorrow Sounds Good wrote:Wonder what current owners consider the pros and cons ?
I haven’t thought of any cons besides the obvious size and cost considerations, which seem pretty in-line for what it the module is.

So far, I’m enamored of the Sinfonion. It is, in many ways, now the heart of my modular.

One thing I would point out is that—for all its complexity—you can also use the Sinfonion very simply. It’s considerably quicker to set up than O&C for pedestrian quantization purposes. It’s ready: just patch and go. All those buttons—a big part of what you’re paying for—keep it easy and immediate.

Thanks . Going to order today :tu:

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Post by mrerdat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:37 am

NotHerbert wrote:I've also had the problem with the menu buttons not responding, or triggering multiple times for one press. Some days they work fine, but others they barely work at all. I hope there's a fix for this.
I have the same problem with mine. The worst button is the next chord button which is perhaps the menu button I need to use the most. Hopefully button debounce can coded in a future update.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:52 am

resynthesize wrote:hey guys, I've had the instruo harmonaig for awhile and just got the sinfonian. the harmonaig quantizes chord changes diatonically, meaning that when it is configured to quantize to c minor for example, a C at the quantize input results in a C minor chord, while an Ab results in an Ab major.

Is this type of diatonic chord quantization possible with the sinfonian? when i send a pitch cv to the chord IN input, it seems to just affect the inversions or spread (in other words, the root note doesn't seem to change).
Hopefully Mathias will chime in here, but my understanding is that Sinfonion’s chord generator stays within whatever root and degree you have chosen. I don’t think there’s a “harmonize mode” or similar attempt by the module to guess how to react to a melodic input. Instead, Sinfonion makes it easy and flexible for you to make those decisions yourself.

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Post by Clumsy » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:02 am

resynthesize wrote:hey guys, I've had the instruo harmonaig for awhile and just got the sinfonian. the harmonaig quantizes chord changes diatonically, meaning that when it is configured to quantize to c minor for example, a C at the quantize input results in a C minor chord, while an Ab results in an Ab major.

Is this type of diatonic chord quantization possible with the sinfonian? when i send a pitch cv to the chord IN input, it seems to just affect the inversions or spread (in other words, the root note doesn't seem to change).
Look at the modes starting with "Major" on page 62 of the manual. You can use an assignable CV input for Degree which will select a diatonic chord. However it won't quantize to the scale first so you need to send it pre-quantized CV or use a sequencer or keyboard etc.

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Post by Tomorrow Sounds Good » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:16 am

Ordered mine from Thomann yesterday as it was showing as in stock , now it’s showing 8-9 week wait .

Anyone have any experience ordering from them ?

Cheers

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Post by cioaudio » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:10 am

Yes, I ordered mine from Thomann 29/11 and it arrived 4/12. I think you just missed the first batch they had in stock for a while, they've rarely shown it in stock for over a week like this time. Before that it kept changing from due this week to due in 5-6 weeks but rarely in stock. They do appear to have the best price for UK due to exchange rate fluctuations.
So yes, I can very much recommend Thomann and just advise to stay away from Musicstore/DV247 who are a bunch of ******* that I would never ever use again.

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