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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

ACL Sinfonion
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author ACL Sinfonion
Supermathi
Hi guys,

since the Sinfonion project has been moved from Instruo to ACL (Audiophile Circuits League) I think it makes sense to start a new topic for the final version of this module. I invite you all for discussion and questions about the ACL Sinfonion here.

Here is a summary of the technical changes to the module in the move from Instruo to ACL:

1. For sake of flexibility the dedicated CV jacks for MODE and DEGREE have been converted into the two assignable CVs "CV3" and "CV4" (which can also be assigned to MODE and DEGREE of course)

2. The CHORDS section now has a new button "13TH". That way you can create any arbitrary chord from the current scale with up to four voices.

3. The ARPEGGIO now also has dedicated buttons for 11TH and 13TH. The functionality of the less important buttons SYNC and BEGIN have been combined into one button in order to save one button.

4. The button layouts of all five sections - including channel 3 - are now identical. This helps live improvisation a lot.

5. Last but not least we got two new pots POT1 and POT2, which can be assigned to all CV functions where this makes sense. So manual wiggling of such cool CVs as "chaotic detune", "harmonic shift" or "chords bend" does not need an external CV module nor wastes one of the CV inputs.

6. Alas - the module size has increased from 38 to 42 HP. Sorry for this. But the musical neccessity of the two additional buttons and the benefit from the two pots was so great so we could not resist.

Here are two mockups:




For what the face plate concerns: I know that not everybody of you is a fan of grey as opposed to black. Yes, the black Sinfonion looked really cool. I very much like the design of all of Jason's modules a lot. But I also found myself liking the sober, technical, industrial style of ACL more and more. Maybe it's the understatement that is appealing to me. And Martin from ACL has done a really great job in reinterpreting the Sinfonion in ACL style! Anyway - this change of color is just a coincidence and not the reason for the transfer to ACL hihi Of course for ACL it wouldn't make any sense to deviate from their design scheme for just one module.

Last but not least there will also be an increase in the price. I know that the new estimated price of 960,- EURO is a lot of money. I can understand everyone of you who thinks twice before spending so much money on just one module. But quality has it's price. The ACL Sinfonion will be manufactured in Germany - also the population of the PCBs. ACL explained to me that China is not an option for them. Even if their low prices are tempting - you can never be sure that they really mount the high precision parts that you have ordered.

And you can be sure that one Sinfonion is still much cheaper - both in money and in HP - than a bunch of loosely coupled quantizers and chord generators that try to mimick even a small part of its functionality.

For my part I am really looking forward to the time when the Sinfonion finally will be made available to all of you that are waiting for it and get all of your feedback - may it be critical or enthusiatic!
mdoudoroff
Very excited! It's peanut butter jelly time!
hemeroscopium
i'm on the buy list already and eagerly awaiting to unlock this beast grin, 4x Ts-L from instruo will be my chords xD
mdoudoroff
erenod raises an important question: will you be accommodating the waiting list that some of us believe we are on that began at Instruo?
Innerself2007
Seeing the close up picture of this module, I think it looks pretty sharp. Has an almost ER-301 OD look to it. I like it!
I'm still on board for this, I need to start saving my pennies and space.
Its going to be a fantastic module I'm sure, looked great before now it just has more features. I will be waiting patiently. Guinness ftw!
Lunartransit
Do the square buttons actually light up so it's easy to see which intervals you chose? On these pictures they look like non-transparent. That would make it a lot more difficult to navigate (in the old Instruo demo they light up, which seems to work great).
peripatitis
forget it
-S.L-
this is the number one module on my wish list, since the begining of the project, and remains number one at this moment and very much looking forward to it.

I just can't wait !
RecycleYourPets
that gray panel is gorgeous!
Vokx
The more I look at it, the more I’m starting to like the design of this module.

For me, the biggest letdown is the price. I don’t have a huge system and it’s a bit hard to justify the cost. But that doesn’t mean I’m off board. I still want to be on the waiting list (I’m already on the Instruo list).

Now the biggest question is: When?
mrerdat
mdoudoroff wrote:
erenod raises an important question: will you be accommodating the waiting list that some of us believe we are on that began at Instruo?


Definitely want to know the answer to this as well since I think I was one of the first people on the Instruo list. If not, sign me up for the new list cool
-S.L-
I was, I think the first Mr. Green

But I think ACL is a bigger company than Instruo (where Jason is doing everything, from design, soldering, distributing etc...) so I'm, confindent that they will not do these modules one by one, but there will be a first batch where there should be enough to coveer the first demand.

Vokx wrote:
The more I look at it, the more I’m starting to like the design of this module.

For me, the biggest letdown is the price. I don’t have a huge system and it’s a bit hard to justify the cost. But that doesn’t mean I’m off board. I still want to be on the waiting list (I’m already on the Instruo list).

Now the biggest question is: When?


when : (early) 2019

Althou Sinfonion will work with any system, in your case, a small one, I think it will shine with big system with tons of synths voices.
Supermathi
Lunartransit wrote:
Do the square buttons actually light up so it's easy to see which intervals you chose? On these pictures they look like non-transparent. That would make it a lot more difficult to navigate (in the old Instruo demo they light up, which seems to work great).


The square buttons will be illuminated as well, of course. You are right, this is very important. In the mockup image you cannot see this, you are right. But real ones will, in two different brightness levels. That way you can distinguish between the selected notes and the currently played one.
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:
erenod raises an important question: will you be accommodating the waiting list that some of us believe we are on that began at Instruo?


Yes, we really want to make sure that everyone that is on Jason's list will get the chance to buy one Sinfonion of the first batch. The exact way of distribution is not decided yet, however. It might be the case that ACL will deliver directly or via your local dealer - depending on your country (USA, Europe, Japan, etc.). We're currently checking this out.
Supermathi
erenod wrote:
i'm on the buy list already and eagerly awaiting to unlock this beast grin, 4x Ts-L from instruo will be my chords xD


4 Ts-Ls seem to me like giving a really fat and rich sound. A good companion for chords is also the Doepfer A-111-4. This is based on four CEM3340 chips and tracks very well over a wide range of octaves. Good tracking VCOs help a lot in a patch with many voices. Furthermore it has the best ratio of VCOs per HP that exists in Eurorack i guess. Even better is two of them - doubling up each of the voices with one octave distance. Believe me, I know what I'm speaking of cool
Supermathi
Vokx wrote:
Althou Sinfonion will work with any system, in your case, a small one, I think it will shine with big system with tons of synths voices.


Of course, you can never have too many VCOs razz But seriously - even if you have just one or two voices: You can think of the Sinfonion as a kind of next generation uber-quantizer: Indepentantly playable intervals for each channel, tons of CVs, sequencing, clever tuning mode, global transposition, internal routing matrix for inputs and outputs (new), top precision bypass at a single button press, just intonation, display, octave switches for each channel, glide detection, note selection based on downbeat / offbeat and so much more.

There is just one danger: after having played the Sinfonion for a couple of months you will hardly be able to make music without one anymore very frustrating
-S.L-
Supermathi wrote:


There is just one danger: after having played the Sinfonion for a couple of months you will hardly be able to make music without one anymore very frustrating


....and will want a second one MY ASS IS BLEEDING
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
Supermathi wrote:


There is just one danger: after having played the Sinfonion for a couple of months you will hardly be able to make music without one anymore very frustrating


....and will want a second one MY ASS IS BLEEDING


... which is actually quite fun. I'm using indeed two linked Sinfonions in my modular. Using a simple patch cable for communication they create a master/slave setup. The slave Sinfonion always follows the master in all musical parameters like root note, scale, transposition and so on. You can have any number of slaves by using multiples.

This is also a way for jamming with your friends in a very musical way. Like a band that always plays in the same key - with the one difference that the master can change chords / scales any time he likes and everybody will immediately follow. Just throw over one longer patch cable to your mate and here we go...
astrodislocate
I'm not personally much into melody-centric sequencing, but I've gotta say this looks unbelievably sexy form a visual standpoint.
hemeroscopium
@Supermathi thanks for suggestion! Might actually go that way smile.
for VCOs i'll have Omega Phi, Verbos CO, R*S NTO so its already pretty heavy. Maybe the doepfer instead of Ts-Ls makes sense (cheaper for sure ;P)
gummyboy
Sorry if this has been answered. I can't find it.

Can you CV control "inversion", "voicing", or "diatonic" like Harmonaig?

It looks like I can do the "diatonic" manually with the pad on ACL Sinfonion.

Big thanks!!!
jsco
sigh. wishlisted. this is exactly what i keep trying to achieve with a bunch of loosely coupled quantizers and chord generators.
Lunartransit
Supermathi wrote:


4 Ts-Ls seem to me like giving a really fat and rich sound. A good companion for chords is also the Doepfer A-111-4. This is based on four CEM3340 chips and tracks very well over a wide range of octaves. Good tracking VCOs help a lot in a patch with many voices. Furthermore it has the best ratio of VCOs per HP that exists in Eurorack i guess. Even better is two of them - doubling up each of the voices with one octave distance. Believe me, I know what I'm speaking of cool


Two Klavis Twin Waves would also work great, they are small and will also give you a lot of different sounds
Supermathi
Hi all,

I've just uploaded another demo of "Sinfonion Music" to Soundcloud. Sequencers are just used for a simple bass line and for the melody theme - both quantized with the Sinfonion into the correct chord situation.

This has been recorded in one single stereo track without any overdubbing nor any effects. The only editing in the DAW was for trimming the start.

Two linked Sinfonions control more than 20 VCOs.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/sets/melodies[/s]
-S.L-
absolutely insane.

I want mine now. very frustrating
TemplarK
Supermathi wrote:
Hi all,

I've just uploaded another demo of "Sinfonion Music" to Soundcloud. Sequencers are just used for a simple bass line and for the melody theme - both quantized with the Sinfonion into the correct chord situation.

This has been recorded in one single stereo track without any overdubbing nor any effects. The only editing in the DAW was for trimming the start.

Two linked Sinfonions control more than 20 VCOs.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/sets/melodies[/s]


AWesome! What VCO/filter are you using for the arabian sounding lead that comes in around 0.50 damn epic patching!
bkbirge
Supermathi wrote:
Hi all,

I've just uploaded another demo of "Sinfonion Music" to Soundcloud. Sequencers are just used for a simple bass line and for the melody theme - both quantized with the Sinfonion into the correct chord situation.

This has been recorded in one single stereo track without any overdubbing nor any effects. The only editing in the DAW was for trimming the start.

Two linked Sinfonions control more than 20 VCOs.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/sets/melodies[/s]



What a great sounding tune, thanks for sharing.
Supermathi
TemplarK wrote:
AWesome! What VCO/filter are you using for the arabian sounding lead that comes in around 0.50 damn epic patching!


This is a Mark Verbos Complex Oscillator with Sync+AM enabled and some Modulation in the Wavefolder - mixed with a Cwejman VCO-6 modulated pulsewave. The filter is a Cwejman MMF-6.
-S.L-
@supermathi , it would be super great to have a super video of you doing one of you super demo razz

what we hear is amazing, would be also amazing to see how you play those lead, is it by hand on a keyboard or using something else like whatever random gate generator etc...

applause
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
-S.L- wrote:
@supermathi , it would be super great to have a super video of you doing one of you super demo razz


Agreed! I would love to see a new demo video of the new Sinfonion design. We know the general usage of this module, but I read that there's been other upgrades in addition to the updated layout.

Can't wait!
ben_hex
Interested to see how this is developing and coming together. Also curious about ACL modules in general. screaming goo yo
Supermathi
Hi guys,

ACL is working hard on the finalization of the module. Meanwhile here is another teaser - a further improvisation. This time the lead voice starts with a chromatic quantization, which is reduced to an alterated scale as time goes by.

The reverb is done by a Bricasti M7 cool

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/improvisations-5[/s]
-S.L-
Supermathi wrote:


ACL is working hard on the finalization of the module.


I like the sound of that very much MY ASS IS BLEEDING

Most anticipated module ever in my case we're not worthy
gummyboy
gummyboy wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered. I can't find it.

Can you CV control "inversion", "voicing", or "diatonic" like Harmonaig?

It looks like I can do the "diatonic" manually with the pad on ACL Sinfonion.

Big thanks!!!


Please anybody???
mdoudoroff
gummyboy wrote:
gummyboy wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered. I can't find it.

Can you CV control "inversion", "voicing", or "diatonic" like Harmonaig?

It looks like I can do the "diatonic" manually with the pad on ACL Sinfonion.

Big thanks!!!


Please anybody???


Sinfonion doesn’t appear to work quite the same way as Harmonaig. You can definitely specify different inversions of pretty much any chord or scale, and you can switch between them.

Here’s a link to a draft version of the manual, which is well worth studying:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/download.php?id=30097
Supermathi
gummyboy wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered. I can't find it.

Can you CV control "inversion", "voicing", or "diatonic" like Harmonaig?

It looks like I can do the "diatonic" manually with the pad on ACL Sinfonion.

Big thanks!!!


Hi Gummyboy,

the Sinfonion has indeed a different concept of chord structures than the Harmonaig - a much more flexible one also.

1. Chords do not need to be constructed of 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th. As a matter of fact you can use any intervals you like. Eg. 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th (e.g. when you bass lead plays the root). Or you could play root, root, root and root - all four voices unisono - just for a dramatical musical change. These note selections can be controlled via CV either by selecting one of 16 button presets or by using the chord progression sequencer and us CVs for controlling thing. Also in a future firmware there will be a function for directly choosing an interval selection via CV. Also there is a gate input for randomly shuffling these selections.

2. There is a parameter called "Spread". Spread is the distance between the lowest and the highest played chord note - measured in semitones. When you select spread to be 2.5 octaves e.g. then your four chord notes well be evenly spread into that range. Spread can be controlled via pot and/or CV. The spread (in combination with the inversion) is much more flexible than just drop 2 or drop 3 voicings and allows tons of different chord layouts at just one turn of a button.

3. Inversion: Here you have five settings: root, 1st, 2nd or 3rd inversion or "free". The chord is always built upwards from the note that is read from the input pitch CV "Chords IN". In free inversion mode the chord will start with the lowest selected chord note that is just above the input pitch. The fixed inversions will force this to be the first, second, third or forth chord note (which might or might not be root, 3rd, 5th and 7h). So when you set inversion to "free" then you can control the actual inversion (and overall pitch) with the pitch input CV.

4. Chord quality / scale: This parameter is the centerpiece of the Sinfonion and is shared between all quantizer channels, the chords and also the arpeggiator. It can be controlled via CV in may different ways. Also it can be sequenced with the builtin sequencer - which is itself highly CVable.

I hope that helped a bit...
bkbirge
Supermathi wrote:
Also in a future firmware there will be a function for directly choosing an interval selection via CV.


I'm still pretty excited to see what this becomes. However, instead of teasing non-existent features as future firmware updates maybe spend the time needed to get them into the initial firmware that you will release. Just my two cents, I'd prefer waiting longer for a solid working bug-free piece of gear than one that comes out sooner but doesn't do everything it is supposed to.
gummyboy
Supermathi wrote:

Hi Gummyboy,

I hope that helped a bit...


It helps but I want to see it in action. When is demo available?

Thanks!!!
mdoudoroff
gummyboy wrote:
It helps but I want to see it in action. When is demo available?

Thanks!!!


The ACL version seems to be only slightly augmented from the Instruo prototype:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aML1TB9-vg
Supermathi
bkbirge wrote:
Supermathi wrote:
Also in a future firmware there will be a function for directly choosing an interval selection via CV.


I'm still pretty excited to see what this becomes. However, instead of teasing non-existent features as future firmware updates maybe spend the time needed to get them into the initial firmware that you will release. Just my two cents, I'd prefer waiting longer for a solid working bug-free piece of gear than one that comes out sooner but doesn't do everything it is supposed to.


No worries, the firmware is already finished and up and running for a couple of months without any known bugs. Just waiting for the hardware. It's just the fancy interval-via-CV-seletion feature that came into my mind a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if it is really useful, I just wanted to mention it here in order to get some feedback.
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:
No worries, the firmware is already finished and up and running for a couple of months without any known bugs. Just waiting for the hardware. It's just the fancy interval-via-CV-seletion feature that came into my mind a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if it is really useful, I just wanted to mention it here in order to get some feedback.


I doubt you’re going to get much useful feedback until the device is in some customer hands, or at least some beta testers’ hands.

In any case, there’s more than enough already in the Sinfonion to keep me busy for a long while.
-S.L-
hey i'm up for beta testing, since i'll buy it anyway hihi
Mal uns
not sure if this is already there... but... a CV and gate looper would be great. for using lets say a keyboard to play a little intermezzo and the sinfonion loops it. marked to trigger/clock points...
mdoudoroff
Page is up and some retailers, such as Schneidersladen are already taking pre-orders.

http://audiophilecircuitsleague.com/products/sinfonion.php

https://www.schneidersladen.de/de/acl-sinfonion.html

help
bkbirge
Let the salivation begin.
-S.L-
I WILL buy this 100%, but I won't pre-order anything before we have a raw idea of release date.

And the idea of chaining them (aka buying 2) is also in mind nuts
mdoudoroff
I imagine this massive unit is at least somewhat challenging to build, particularly if any of the components are hard to source right now. I’m curious whether they were able to just use one big PCB—as on many of their products—or whether it’s more complex than that. The screen at leastmight require it’s own support.
titanlegions
I imagine Schneidersladen's estimate of 4 weeks is a little optimistic, alas.
monads
The module looks pretty awesome. But before jumping on board....I want to wait for more demos (or manual) and check what modules I can maybe consolidate? Wondering how the chord/arp sections compare against the Flame modules: Chord Machine 2 and Arp 2013.
mdoudoroff
monads wrote:
The module looks pretty awesome. But before jumping on board....I want to wait for more demos (or manual) and check what modules I can maybe consolidate? Wondering how the chord/arp sections compare against the Flame modules: Chord Machine 2 and Arp 2013.


A link to the draft manual is available above, as is a pretty compelling video demo. It would be nice to have more video demos, of course.

The Flame Arpeggiator and Chord Machines seem like nice modules, and there’s some overlap—on paper—but in practice, I suspect they’re worlds apart. Most fundamentally, the Flame modules are islands to themselves, which is de rigeur for modular, but that makes them subject to the very problem that Sinfonion solves: you will be hard pressed to coordinate them together. You actually could use the Flame Arpeggiator (or any alternative) in conjunction with Sinfonion: you’d requantize the former’s output in the latter, bypassing Sinfonion’s built-in arp.

What makes Sinfonion utterly unique is that you can have a bunch of voices all playing together in the same scale—but each working that scale in unique ways—and then have them all turn on a dime. It also appears to be quite playable, but we shall see. Obviously, Sinfonion will not make sense for everybody.

In terms of consolidation, I currently lean heavily on my Ornament & Crime for quantization; I’ll be keeping it for its many other capable functions.

My main concern is that the whole Sinfonion project will get derailed before it reaches the market.
monads
Thanks for the info! The video was good and I like how the module brings functions/features together of specific modules for integration. I couldn't tell from the manual if the firmware is upgradable or not? It also doesn't appear available for pre-order at USA retailers and I'm wondering what's the timeline for actual release.
Lunartransit
Has anybody seen a working prototype by ACL yet? I'm thinking about pre-ordering, but I wonder if it would be available early 2019 if there is no prototype yet.
gonkulator
Yeah, wondering about pre ordering in the USA. Didn't get any response from emailing them directly.
windspirit
Just wanted to chime in and say that I can't help reading the name of this as "synth onion". In a way it really has a lot of layers of harmony.
mdoudoroff
I’m sure that once Matthias and ACL are actually ready, they’ll let us know.

If not, we can grouse about it here for the next few years.
monads
Some of the USA retailers are awaiting further details (as of 10/05/18) from the manufacture before listing any pre-order availability.
bkbirge
Made ya look.
titanlegions
Oh you wink
Supermathi
Hi guys,

as token that the new ACL Sinfonion will be real, here is the new freshly layouted PCB, which will soon go into production. Let's all hope that everything goes fine and it will work like a charm in the first revision.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka-lAlhXUBE
mOBiTh
screaming goo yo
Brennanib
Loving the look of this one!! Rockin' Banana!
Lunartransit
seriously, i just don't get it no, nothing new
Supermathi
mOBiTh
MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING
-S.L-
money is ready
in_sherman
have n't heard shit yet.. anyone? PLEASE RELEASE SO I CAN STARTING MAKE MUSIC[/video]
monads
Yup...waiting for this to drop too!
noisejockey
I was lucky enough to share a stage with Herr Kettner in Munich last month, and I saw his rig with TWO of these beasts. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. Total game changer for melodic modular music. Walked away supremely impressed. Sorry, no demos, but his walkthrough and demo left my jaw wide open.
mdoudoroff
noisejockey wrote:
I was lucky enough to share a stage with Herr Kettner in Munich last month, and I saw his rig with TWO of these beasts. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. Total game changer for melodic modular music. Walked away supremely impressed. Sorry, no demos, but his walkthrough and demo left my jaw wide open.


Presume he was still using a couple of the Instruo prototypes? It doesn’t appear there’s an actual ACL unit built, yet. Hopefully soon!

Been waiting over a year for this module. A hole in my rack was set aside long ago…
mrerdat
noisejockey wrote:
I was lucky enough to share a stage with Herr Kettner in Munich last month, and I saw his rig with TWO of these beasts. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. Total game changer for melodic modular music. Walked away supremely impressed. Sorry, no demos, but his walkthrough and demo left my jaw wide open.


Woah, what was the usage case for two? Do you remember if he used more than 8 oscillators?
noisejockey
[quote="mdoudoroff"]
noisejockey wrote:
Presume he was still using a couple of the Instruo prototypes?


Correct.

Quote:
Woah, what was the usage case for two? Do you remember if he used more than 8 oscillators?


I'll just leave this here. woah

mrerdat
Woah, cool! And lol at that velcro cable tie situation. It looks like a tree trunk is growing from the Sinfonion patch bays. Must have sounded nuts.
-S.L-
I’m getting two as well.

Because fuck it
MY ASS IS BLEEDING

I own pretty much all quantizer around, and althou I love them, it’s nowhere near as good and flexible as the Sinfonion.

You can never have enough.....Quantizer !! Rockin' Banana!
bkbirge
I don't think I could justify 2 of them but 1 would be very useful in my mid-size system. I think this is the next level of innovation to be explored in euro, that of composition tools. Hopefully we'll see other manufacturers come up with equally innovative ideas along that front, moving into systems of systems instead of rehashing the basic building blocks over and over.
Kruger
what's about the sync of the internal sequencer with an external main sequencer. I don't see a reset and a run input ... ?
titanlegions
There are two assignable inputs, you can set those to reset and various other operations on the sequencer.
Mal uns
just double check'n!

if i am on the preorder list - made by instruo - i do get the chance to be part of the first batch, right? it would be a pain in the ass to wait for a year to figure out i have to wait for another year... so... please confirm supermathi smile thanks and cheers
Lunartransit
I also registered with Instruo for a preorder, but I think with ACL you need to preorder with one of their retail outlets.
-S.L-
I don’t think being in touch with Instruo is gonna get you (us) anywhere anymore. I also was one of the first to suscribe for the waiting list, but since Instruo is not involved anymore, best thing to do is to wait from official release with ACL, next year.
Panason
Funnily enough I was thinking about a 4 voice modular last night! This is almost tempting me to get into eurorack but I will resist.

Good to see a decent screen that isn't a relic from the 80s!

thumbs up
Supermathi
Mal uns wrote:
just double check'n!

if i am on the preorder list - made by instruo - i do get the chance to be part of the first batch, right? it would be a pain in the ass to wait for a year to figure out i have to wait for another year... so... please confirm supermathi smile thanks and cheers


Hi all,

sorry for all this confusion with the waiting list. The distribution model of Instruo is (or at least was) different than that of ACL. Jason from Instruo at that time was shipping modules directly - without any distributor. So we created a waiting list for people that we would deliver to when the modules would be built.

ACL on the other hand works with a distributor and retailers. That way they spare their valuable time for developing modules. Distribution can really be a full time job!

For that reason there is no waiting list any more. Instead you should place preorders at the retailer of your choice. You find all retailers here: http://audiophilecircuitsleague.com/distributors-retailers.php. Please note that Alex4 is just a distributor - please contact the listed retailers.

We are planning a first batch that is large enough for all preorders to be shipped in the first run. The number of preorders helps us to plan this.

I've heard, however, that some of the US retailers seem not to take preorders yet. If that is the case - could you give me some feedback?
mdoudoroff
On the US side, two retailers are listed: Noisebug and Perfect Circuit.

Noisebug: the link leads to a 404; “ACL” is a brand on the site but no Sinfonion is listed amongst the products

Perfect Circuit: PC seems to have no brand pages, but if you search on ACL, various products are listed, but the Sinfonion is not one of them

Has ACL (or the distributor) sent all the information these retailers need in order to take pre-orders? I’m not sure how to proceed. hmmm.....
-S.L-
I never pre order anything. I just wait for final official release. Maybe I’ll do an exception this time if it help to get this running faster
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
I never pre order anything. I just wait for final official release. Maybe I’ll do an exception this time if it help to get this running faster


Yes, same with me. I hate preordering. Waiting sucks in general very frustrating

Production in Germany is very slow currently. Our preferred PCB assembler calls for 2-3 months just for creating a prototype! Companies have too many customers, parts are sold out, the whole business is overheated. We are working on a better and faster solution very hard. We'll keep you updated.
Lunartransit
I'm almost afraid to ask, but I suppose this means some delay? Well, at least it would give me more time to get the funds for it

beer!
mdoudoroff
Zoiks. Sounds like we may be months from a new prototype, let alone production. cry
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:
Zoiks. Sounds like we may be months from a new prototype, let alone production. cry


Keep your spirits up. The PCBs for the protype should arrive in two days. With a bit of luck we get some hand soldered prototypes pretty soon. I will keep you updated.
Supermathi
Hi,

meanwhile I've tried my luck and created an illustration of how the Sinfonion processes pitch information:

Supermathi
Hi,

I've just uploaded a new recording to Soundcloud. Again made with two linked Sinfonions, a lot of voices and this time a manually switched chord change from C dorian (minor), over Eb dorian to D lydian (major).

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/melodies-2[/s]

One side note: At the beginning the scale is C dorian minor. The improvised melody is minor pentatonic but - however - adds the major 3rd (which would belong to major, not minor) and a diminished 5th. This is done by selecting FILL2 and FILL3 in Channel 2. This is a bit Joe Zawinul style Mr. Green
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:
I've just uploaded a new recording to Soundcloud. Again made with two linked Sinfonions, a lot of voices and this time a manually switched chord change from C dorian (minor), over Eb dorian to D lydian (major).


Neat. Can you tell us more about the pitch CV techniques you’re employing here (what you’re feeding into the Sinfonion to create distinct, but compatible parts)?
monads
Lovely!!! Wondering if I need 2 Sinfonions now hmmm.....
bkbirge
Supermathi wrote:
Hi,

I've just uploaded a new recording to Soundcloud. Again made with two linked Sinfonions, a lot of voices and this time a manually switched chord change from C dorian (minor), over Eb dorian to D lydian (major).

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/melodies-2[/s]

One side note: At the beginning the scale is C dorian minor. The improvised melody is minor pentatonic but - however - adds the major 3rd (which would belong to major, not minor) and a diminished 5th. This is done by selecting FILL2 and FILL3 in Channel 2. This is a bit Joe Zawinul style Mr. Green



Fantastic demo, absolutely love the fast lead stuff shoehorned into the quantizer over the chord changes. Hard to believe this is a modular performance except for the precision!
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:

Neat. Can you tell us more about the pitch CV techniques you’re employing here (what you’re feeding into the Sinfonion to create distinct, but compatible parts)?


The bass line is a simple sequence by Metropolis going through Sinfonion channel 1.

The lead is played by a Doepfer ribbon controller, which outputs a continous CV. This goes directly through channel 2. A clock is being used as trigger, which essentially does a time - quantization. But just on every output pitch change the channel 2 creates a trigger (picked up in OUT 2), which is then used for the envelope of that voice. The trigger clock used here can be switched between four different speeds which a pressure points: 16th, 16th triplets, 32th and 8th triplets.

The "background" melody is created by a Cirklon sequencer but then requantized by channel 3 so it will reflect chord changes correctly. This melody is doubled with a fourth voice using the Arpeggiator as a fourth quantizer channel - playing with a varying note offset.

Chords are done by two independent oscillator-quadruplets, one by Sinfonion 1, the other by a second Sinfonion. In both cases the voicings are sequenced via external CV by the Cirklon.

The chords changes are done by manually switching through a 3 step chord sequence. That give me more musical freedom and more interesting variation than just letting it run automatically. In one situation I even use an external CV for changing just the root note. This is created by a Doepfer A-173-1 micro keyboard, which is directly patched into the ROOT CV jack (http://www.doepfer.de/A1731.htm).

Does that answer some of your questions?

As soon as I have the new ACL prototypes I'll try to create some videos that maybe explain more then just words hmmm.....
-S.L-
It's very clear to me we're not worthy

I can't wait to get them ! applause applause
mdoudoroff
Thank you for the patch notes, Supermathi! It really helps for interpreting what we hear and then extrapolating the techniques we might employ to our own ends.
Multi Grooves
That's really HOT.


FFS...
Supermathi
JFYI: I've just updated the flow chart in my post from Nov 19. I've added the octave switches, the trigger and cleaned it up in general a bit. I hope it helps to understand how many of the features of the quantizer within the Sinfonion work together.

For example you can see that there are actually two CVs for post transposition. This first one is via the dedicated jack TRANS. That one is itself quantized to semitones and happens before the slow. The additional CV "Transposition" is unquantized and allows things like pitch bending. It happens after the slewing.
Lunartransit
It may be too much to ask, but what I would love is to to have a separate gate out for each of the four voices in the chord section. that way you could have notes moving within the chord, in stead of a four note "block" chord with every chord change. That is what makes other chord quantiser (Qu-bit Chord as an example) a little static in the long run.
mdoudoroff
Lunartransit wrote:
It may be too much to ask, but what I would love is to to have a separate gate out for each of the four voices in the chord section. that way you could have notes moving within the chord, in stead of a four note "block" chord with every chord change. That is what makes other chord quantiser (Qu-bit Chord as an example) a little static in the long run.


What would the separate gates be based on? Do you mean for the chords to somehow build over time in a legato or strumming manner? Seems like there are other ways to accomplish that downstream.
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:
JFYI: I've just updated the flow chart in my post from Nov 19. I've added the octave switches, the trigger and cleaned it up in general a bit. I hope it helps to understand how many of the features of the quantizer within the Sinfonion work together.

For example you can see that there are actually two CVs for post transposition. This first one is via the dedicated jack TRANS. That one is itself quantized to semitones and happens before the slow. The additional CV "Transposition" is unquantized and allows things like pitch bending. It happens after the slewing.


This version seems clearer to me!

Has the manual evolved? Have the test PCBs arrived?
Lunartransit
What would the separate gates be based on? Do you mean for the chords to somehow build over time in a legato or strumming manner? Seems like there are other ways to accomplish that downstream.[/quote]

I mean if 3 notes in the chord stay the same but one note changes, that note would create a gate. So you could create a chord/melody without getting gate for all 4 notes in the chord with every change. At least that is how I would play it on a keyboard.
Supermathi
Lunartransit wrote:
It may be too much to ask, but what I would love is to to have a separate gate out for each of the four voices in the chord section. that way you could have notes moving within the chord, in stead of a four note "block" chord with every chord change. That is what makes other chord quantiser (Qu-bit Chord as an example) a little static in the long run.


The concept of the Sinfonion is just about pitch information. The Sinfonion does not at all impose triggering all four voices at the same time. That might be obvious but it is a fallacy. Triggering each of the four chord voices independently is absolutely possible and I do it in my live setups a lot as a matter of fact. Creating independent gates can be done in many ways - maybe using four tracks of a trigger sequencer, different stages of a clock divider, a Trigger Riot, MI grids. Whatever...
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:


This version seems clearer to me!

Has the manual evolved? Have the test PCBs arrived?


The manual has not changed yet, because it's currenty in the process of being nicely layouted. As soon as I have it back I will integrate the flow chart and update it a little.

The test PCBs arrived on Friday. With a bit of luck the first prototype will be hand soldered this week. I'll keep you updated Guinness ftw!
Supermathi
Lunartransit wrote:
I mean if 3 notes in the chord stay the same but one note changes, that note would create a gate. So you could create a chord/melody without getting gate for all 4 notes in the chord with every change. At least that is how I would play it on a keyboard.


Ah, I got you. Well, that feature is currently "missing" indeed. Of course you you feed some chord output to a free Sinfonion channel and have a gate created here. But I also might consider this as a feature request. It would eat up all of the four gate outputs, however. Currently just OUT1 and OUT2 are mappable. GATE1 / GATE2 are ment to be sequenced or played manually with the buttons GATE1/2.
Sinamsis
Any word on release date for this? I've lost track of the project since ACL picked it up.
Supermathi
Sinamsis wrote:
Any word on release date for this? I've lost track of the project since ACL picked it up.


Hi, meanwhile we have the first PCBs. And a pseudo faceplate used for mounting the buttons safely while soldering:



As you might see from the picture we switched back to round buttons for several reasons.

Hand soldering the first two prototypes will probably be done in the next couple of days. Then please keep your fingers crossed that everything works out fine so that we can order the final PCBs...
Supermathi
And here is an updated mockup of the module:

Supermathi
... and: the real PCB:

atimbral
Maybe kinda silly, I know, but I think the round buttons really improve the user-friendliness of the design. Somehow that wall of square buttons looked busier and more intimidating!
hemeroscopium
yes yes yes yes triple yes grin squares begone.
-S.L-
beauty love
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
we're not worthy SlayerBadger! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Looking great!

@supermathi - In previous images - including on your Soundcloud, it looked like the buttons were occasionally different colors (Possibly for indicating pitch within the scale..?). Can you shed light on this and whether it's a feature of the latest version of the Sinfonion, or was this for testing/demo purposes?
Supermathi
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
we're not worthy SlayerBadger! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Looking great!

@supermathi - In previous images - including on your Soundcloud, it looked like the buttons were occasionally different colors (Possibly for indicating pitch within the scale..?). Can you shed light on this and whether it's a feature of the latest version of the Sinfonion, or was this for testing/demo purposes?


I'm not sure which image you exactly mean. But we built one prototype where the LEDs in the buttons had different colors based on the interval. E.g blue for root, green for 5th and so on. While this was a nice idea it looked rather ugly. One problem was that all colors had different brightness levels. Also the overall look was not very appealing. So we switched back to white LEDs. But these have two brightness levels: dim for selected notes, bright for the currently played one.
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Supermathi wrote:

I'm not sure which image you exactly mean. But we built one prototype where the LEDs in the buttons had different colors based on the interval. E.g blue for root, green for 5th and so on. While this was a nice idea it looked rather ugly. One problem was that all colors had different brightness levels. Also the overall look was not very appealing. So we switched back to white LEDs. But these have two brightness levels: dim for selected notes, bright for the currently played one.


Oh - I understand. Very cool idea, though. That answers my question, thanks.
And also thanks for your active responsiveness to this thread.

For the record, I was referring to photos of your prototypes like these:

Supermathi
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:

For the record, I was referring to photos of your prototypes like these:



Aah. This is indeed the single one colored Sinfonion. We always referred to it as "The Colored One" wink A friend of mine always called it gumdrop edition. I still like the idea of having interval functions represented by colors. Let's see if we create colored a special edition one day.
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:


Aah. This is indeed the single one colored Sinfonion. We always referred to it as "The Colored One" wink A friend of mine always called it gumdrop edition. I still like the idea of having interval functions represented by colors. Let's see if we create colored a special edition one day.


Gemerally, I believe you are making the right decision to not go down the color coding rabbit hole. It’s not just a case of getting ugly; it’s encoding. Even setting aside the color blindness problem, humans aren’t that good at decoding more than a 2-3 colors in a system. In recent years, Make Noise has fallen a little too in love with multicolor LEDs, and it’s not good.
-S.L-
It does looks pretty if you like Christmas three, I like it.

But it can be unpractical i agree
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Supermathi wrote:
I still like the idea of having interval functions represented by colors. Let's see if we create colored a special edition one day.


I would consider purchasing it!
The illuminated colored indication of the interval could be helpful in a live context.

Also, pretty lights are cool.
mOBiTh
Hey Supermathi

What's the plan with this module wrt microtonal scales please?


hihi
Lunartransit
If you want a microtonal quantizer get the SSP, or mSSP. It can load a database with 4800 mostly microtonal scales (Scala). The Sinfonion has other unique possibilities, like dedicate buttons to choose the intervals you want to use. My plan is to get both Never maintain cash savings again
hemeroscopium
Good lord its good you decided to go away from multicolor stuff grin The less the better imho ^_^.
Supermathi
mOBiTh wrote:
Hey Supermathi

What's the plan with this module wrt microtonal scales please?


hihi


Hi, currently I have no plans for microtonality. The Sinfonion is so deeply concerned about our beloved 12 tones that introducing a completely different concept would probably break the whole user interface and other things.

The Sinfonion can do different tunings, however. Currently this is tempered, just and quarter mean tone. The nice thing is that it can adapt the non-tempered intonations on the fly to the correct root note. Classical instruments that are tuned non-tempered are always fixed to one root note.
Supermathi
... and while we impatiently wait for the first prototype to be populated with SMD parts by Vlado here are two very recent recordings that are done with a Sinfonion centric patch:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/improvisations-8[/s]

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/short-scenes-scene-18[/s]
mOBiTh
Supermathi wrote:
mOBiTh wrote:
Hey Supermathi

What's the plan with this module wrt microtonal scales please?


hihi


Hi, currently I have no plans for microtonality. The Sinfonion is so deeply concerned about our beloved 12 tones that introducing a completely different concept would probably break the whole user interface and other things.

The Sinfonion can do different tunings, however. Currently this is tempered, just and quarter mean tone. The nice thing is that it can adapt the non-tempered intonations on the fly to the correct root note. Classical instruments that are tuned non-tempered are always fixed to one root note.


Cool makes sense!

So would it be possible to have custom user tunings perhaps? Just curious...
Supermathi
mOBiTh wrote:
So would it be possible to have custom user tunings perhaps? Just curious...


Hm. I'd rather not starting planning new features in the current stage of the project. The Sinfonion is already very sophisticated (current manual is attached). I guess it is wise to first let people gather some experiance with the module and let them understand how everything works and feels. After that phase a discussion about possible new features will be inevitable anyway wink
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:

Hm. I'd rather not starting planning new features in the current stage of the project. The Sinfonion is already very sophisticated (current manual is attached). I guess it is wise to first let people gather some experiance with the module and let them understand how everything works and feels. After that phase a discussion about possible new features will be inevitable anyway wink


Thanks for the updated manual! I adore the illustrations with the nuts and pen drawings!

Also, the routing matrix looks awesome!
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:


Thanks for the updated manual! I adore the illustrations with the nuts and pen drawings!

Also, the routing matrix looks awesome!


These nuts are just a sketch for a later real layout. Quick and dirty, don't waste time here wink And don't forget the flow chart. It also illustrates where the both routhing matrices are located in the signal flow:

And
av500


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiThRIHwQDE
mOBiTh
Supermathi wrote:
mOBiTh wrote:
So would it be possible to have custom user tunings perhaps? Just curious...


Hm. I'd rather not starting planning new features in the current stage of the project. The Sinfonion is already very sophisticated (current manual is attached). I guess it is wise to first let people gather some experiance with the module and let them understand how everything works and feels. After that phase a discussion about possible new features will be inevitable anyway wink


Cool makes sense, just curious!
Supermathi
Hi guys,

Vlado has brought the first prototype to live! MCU, power and display are working. Buttons and pots are still missing and will be added these days. But everything is looking good so far. With a bit of luck next week I have the first working prototype. I'll keep you updated smile

-S.L-
this is exciting applause
av500
Sunday afternoons are for soldering wink

-S.L-
av500 wrote:
Sunday afternoons are for soldering wink



well, yeah, what else ! lol
mdoudoroff
hyper
av500
my work here is done ...

mOBiTh
good work cool

I would love to build one too. I guess that's not an option right? hmmm.....
av500
mOBiTh wrote:
I would love to build one too. I guess that's not an option right? hmmm.....


easier to steal the blueprints for the death star!
Lunartransit
Looks good!! When would this be in the stores? My guess would be at least 4-5 months from now?
Supermathi
Hi guys,

I just got the first ACL Sinfonion prototype from Vladimir. Everything seems to work like a charm. Just the 3x4 buttons at the bottom are inverted, but I'll fix this soon in the firmware.



Vladimir is already building a second prototype in order to make more intense tests. The PCB needs a couple of trivial modifications like bigger small drill holes for the buttons or adding missing ground normalisations for the CV inputs. But such a complex PCB working on the first revision is really amazing (thanks Stefan!)
loowfizzz
Yaay! Looks great...
av500
please note, I have no idea what I was doing, but I had to make a patch before sending this to ACL smile

[s]http://soundcloud.com/vladimir-pantelic/sinfonic-one[/s]

[s]http://soundcloud.com/vladimir-pantelic/sinfonion-2[/s]
Supermathi


This is real! No fake! Guinness ftw!
monads
^looking nice!!! Also so glad you went with round push buttons vs. the square!!
-S.L-
this is looking sweeeeeet !! applause
Audiobender
Is it smaller with the round buttons or still the same size?
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
I can't wait to get that thing in my rack! nanners
cackland
Curious to which manufacturer/model the buttons are?
av500
cackland wrote:
Curious to which manufacturer/model the buttons are?


Highly KS01-BL
Supermathi
Hey guys,

here is some Sinfonion Christmas night improvisation playing 6 VCOs: 4 by the chord section, one by channel 1 (bass line) and one by channel 2 (melody). I hope you like it...

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/improvisations-10[/s]
-S.L-
counting the days (months) applause
danishchairs
Supermathi wrote:
... here is some Sinfonion Christmas night improvisation ...

Very nice! You really make the Sinfonion sing. Were you also playing something by hand (keyboard or some other instrument or module), or was the Sinfonion providing all the CVs?
cackland
av500 wrote:
cackland wrote:
Curious to which manufacturer/model the buttons are?


Highly KS01-BL


Thank you
Supermathi
danishchairs wrote:
Supermathi wrote:
... here is some Sinfonion Christmas night improvisation ...

Very nice! You really make the Sinfonion sing. Were you also playing something by hand (keyboard or some other instrument or module), or was the Sinfonion providing all the CVs?


I feed a ribbon controller into channel 2 of the Sinfonion. So in a way it's payed by hand, but the final pitch is being decided by the Sinfonion.
danishchairs
Supermathi wrote:
danishchairs wrote:
Supermathi wrote:
... here is some Sinfonion Christmas night improvisation ...

Very nice! You really make the Sinfonion sing. Were you also playing something by hand (keyboard or some other instrument or module), or was the Sinfonion providing all the CVs?


I feed a ribbon controller into channel 2 of the Sinfonion. So in a way it's payed by hand, but the final pitch is being decided by the Sinfonion.

Thanks! Reading this while listening to the piece again, looking over a recent photo of the module and reading the manual, I’m starting to see/hear what’s going on.
mdoudoroff
How goes testing? What has been learned? Is the hardware cleared for manufacturing, or are tweaks required? hyper
monads
Up for pre-order over at Perfect Circuit in the States! SlayerBadger!

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/acl-sinfonion.html
cackland
monads wrote:
Up for pre-order over at Perfect Circuit in the States! SlayerBadger!

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/acl-sinfonion.html


Hmmm, wonder what the pre-order eta is...
mdoudoroff
cackland wrote:
monads wrote:
Up for pre-order over at Perfect Circuit in the States! SlayerBadger!

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/acl-sinfonion.html


Hmmm, wonder what the pre-order eta is...


Yeah, really want to know whether this is a development based on new info from ACL, or guesswork by PC.
monads
monads wrote:
Some of the USA retailers are awaiting further details (as of 10/05/18) from the manufacture before listing any pre-order availability.


I doubt it's guesswork from my inquiry above to PC but you never know.
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Pre-ordered!
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:
How goes testing? What has been learned? Is the hardware cleared for manufacturing, or are tweaks required? hyper


Hi, the first PCB version was completely fine as far as the circuit itself goes. Vlado made a few tweaks and I'm playing that module without any restrictions. Just some drillings were too small, GND-normalizations for the CV inputs where missing and the LEDs of the small buttons were in wrong orientation. And the small display windows is a bit too greenish. So yes we need a 2nd revision but this will be trivial.

The greatest obstackle is still the manufacturing time - i.e. the waiting time for orders at local PCB manufacturers. But we are working on a solution. And my last information was that we already have about 100 preorders smile
mdoudoroff
Thank you for the update, Supermathi
Vokx
Very good to hear the project is progressing nicely.

Supermathi wrote:
And the small display windows is a bit too greenish.


Glad you find that too. I think a green display and yellow buttons aren't a good match at all. Can’t you make them all white (buttons and display) like on the Instruo prototypes? That looked very classy and I think will suit the ACL aesthetics also well.

The round buttons look great!
Vokx
Supermathi wrote:
And my last information was that we already have about 100 preorders smile

Wow!

I’m one of them. Pre-ordered one at Schneidersladen in October. Can't wait!
-S.L-
i'm not one of them, because i'm waiting for the official release date, but i'll be another buy if not two
Adamalthus
Pre-ordered! Guinness ftw!

Hope that first manufacturing run is going to cover all the orders now in the pipeline.
mrerdat
Preordered mine from Perfect Circuit! hyper

Just curious what oscillators/voices you will all be using with it?

I have 10 voices I can choose from- 4 Disting mk4s set up as wavetable oscs, a 4 voice BL Poly module, and 2 Plonks.
cackland
As much as I'd want to jump onboard, I think I'd prefer to see them out in the wild before if take the plunge.

Glad to hear its coming along.
monads
+1 here with my pre-order as well.
Adamalthus
mrerdat wrote:
Just curious what oscillators/voices you will all be using with it?
I have 10 voices I can choose from- 4 Disting mk4s set up as wavetable oscs, a 4 voice BL Poly module, and 2 Plonks.


I was going to ask the same question. I also have four Distings that can be called into service but I was thinking that four Plaits might be a versatile combo. I'd also love to hear what other folks have in mind for the voicing to go with this.
Antlerface
Would probably be awesome w an e370..
Supermathi
Adamalthus wrote:
mrerdat wrote:
Just curious what oscillators/voices you will all be using with it?
I have 10 voices I can choose from- 4 Disting mk4s set up as wavetable oscs, a 4 voice BL Poly module, and 2 Plonks.


I was going to ask the same question. I also have four Distings that can be called into service but I was thinking that four Plaits might be a versatile combo. I'd also love to hear what other folks have in mind for the voicing to go with this.


Don't forget about the Doepfer A-111-4! It has four CEM-3340 oscillators. It tracks super presize and is also very temperature stable. It is small and very affordable, too, so in fact I'm using two of them at one octave distance for playing my chords. Every of the four voices is doubled up for a nice fat sound.
Adamalthus
Supermathi wrote:
Don't forget about the Doepfer A-111-4! It has four CEM-3340 oscillators. It tracks super presize and is also very temperature stable. It is small and very affordable, too, so in fact I'm using two of them at one octave distance for playing my chords. Every of the four voices is doubled up for a nice fat sound.


Thanks for the suggestion. Any chance you'd have the time to post some info on the specific patching and voicing used for the great Soundcloud tracks you have been posting?
mdoudoroff
Adamalthus wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. Any chance you'd have the time to post some info on the specific patching and voicing used for the great Soundcloud tracks you have been posting?


I don’t see how patching voices for Sinfonion is significantly different than patching voices for any other sequenced setup; the Sinfonion is just providing way more sophisticated control over your pitches, no?

For me, the bigger unknown is cv modulation of Sinfonion itself. We know Matthias is using a ribbon controller heavily. How far can you get with basic modulation sources such as LFOs?
Jaypee
Will be enough stock for those who like me haven't pre-ordered it?
-S.L-
Jaypee wrote:
Will be enough stock for those who like me haven't pre-ordered it?


pretty much have the same question
diller
cackland wrote:
As much as I'd want to jump onboard, I think I'd prefer to see them out in the wild before if take the plunge.

Glad to hear its coming along.


I'm doing the same thing. I've made the mistake of buying into products that had issues in the initial runs too many times. And preordering modules that take way too long to be released where my money can be better spent. Omnimod anyone? lol
Ttrev2k
Fuk it... preordered!

Im entrusted that @Supermathi has done his homework on this one. I’m in for the ride. SlayerBadger!
Supermathi
Ttrev2k wrote:
Fuk it... preordered!

Im entrusted that @Supermathi has done his homework on this one. I’m in for the ride. SlayerBadger!


Thanks for your trust cool I can assure your that the software is up and running. And it is very stable. Three prototypes have been built and work. A forth is currently being prepared for going to NAMM show 2019.

With the final PCB (just a few trivial changes) we will build another 4-6 prototypes and then ramp up production.

All the parts (except for the PCB and the panel) for 200 builds are already on stock in Berlin (i.e. MCU, ADCs, DACs, displays etc.).
cackland
Supermathi, when do you estimated production to commence? Along with pre-orders being filled?
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Supermathi wrote:
A forth is currently being prepared for going to NAMM show 2019.


Could be a good opportunity to film some updated demo videos
Supermathi


Please enjoy and comment!
Ttrev2k
Supermathi wrote:


Please enjoy and comment!


Amazing! Thanks for sharing. I think I’ll be spending my time waiting for my Sinfonion on modulargrid, re-engineering my rack. hihi
mdoudoroff
Very helpful video, Supermathi. Thank you. The breakdown of your ribbon controller configuration was particularly helpful, because it clarifies where the Sinfonion starts and ends in the process and inspires more thinking about ways to use it!
bkbirge
Fantastic vid!
mdoudoroff
Supermathi’s video makes me pine for a compact quad oscillator built around DCOs, with only one tuning control that sets the base frequency for all four oscillators, four 1v/o jacks, and only as many additional controls/ins/outs as really add value for the chordal context. A fully digital quad wavetable oscillator might make sense here, with an emphasis on low harmonic content waveforms? Maybe even optional sub octave added in? Perhaps some internal output rotation/mixing to make patch management more conveniently flexible?

The A-111-4 is a good value, and it has the sum outs, which is nice, but I think there’s a growing niche market for something even more focused (not just because of the Sinfonion).
-S.L-
There's gonna be some menu and learning curve for the programming but so worth it. I can't wait for it, this is a game changer for people making music on a modular system. applause

Module of the year already !
bkbirge
That last vid pushed me over the edge, pre-ordered, lawd help me. CV over chord voice spread is amazing. Time to see what I can dump from the studio to make up the shortfall. Hopefully the extensive live use Matthias has been getting out of this points to a mature stable release, crossing fingers.
mdoudoroff
lol So, after writing my plaintive post, two posts above, I head over to YouTube and discover that the new Qu-bit Chord 2 sports a “polyphonic” mode where you can pitch all four voices independently. Unless I misunderstand, this is much of what I was asking for, including wavetables. $300.



*I presume the four 1v/o inputs in this mode wind up being Voct, Lead, Quality and Voicing
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Overall, each channel in the Sinfonion is capable of more than I had anticipated Mr. Green
The playability of the Chords Channel, the versatility of the Arpeggiator Channel, the Sequencing(?) of the A/B pattern in the 1st Channel, and even the Parameters you can set when using the 2nd Channel with the Ribbon - All surpassed my expectations.

Initially, based on all the videos and info I've been watching over the past year or so, I've understood how the Sinfonion takes the initial Sequence and then requantizes it to a portion of the scale that the user sets on the fly. But I hadn't witnessed how much control and playability the user can get solely from the Sinfonion itself, rather than the user having to work back and forth between Sequencer and Sinfonion.
I'm very impressed, and can't wait to get my hands on it! Great things to come, for sure.
giftculture
The video has sold me - is there a preferred retailer to pre-order from in the US?
cackland
giftculture wrote:
The video has sold me - is there a preferred retailer to pre-order from in the US?


Agreed, hard to deny its capabilities.
mdoudoroff
giftculture wrote:
The video has sold me - is there a preferred retailer to pre-order from in the US?


Detroit Modular, Perfect Circuit and Noisebug are all listed as ACL dealers, but at this time, only Perfect Circuit seems to be offering preorders for Sinfonion.

This fact worries me.
monads
mdoudoroff wrote:
giftculture wrote:
The video has sold me - is there a preferred retailer to pre-order from in the US?


Detroit Modular, Perfect Circuit and Noisebug are all listed as ACL dealers, but at this time, only Perfect Circuit seems to be offering preorders for Sinfonion.

This fact worries me.


hmmm..... Why??? You're good as golden with PC and I've never experienced any issues pre-ordering items from. I'm sure the other dealers will stock when it becomes available and/or work out pre-ordering details with ACL. For now, it just appears that PC has the agreements ironed out with ACL.

Nice video/demo btw supermathi!!! Sweet rig too!!!
giftculture
mdoudoroff wrote:
giftculture wrote:
The video has sold me - is there a preferred retailer to pre-order from in the US?


Detroit Modular, Perfect Circuit and Noisebug are all listed as ACL dealers, but at this time, only Perfect Circuit seems to be offering preorders for Sinfonion.

This fact worries me.


I could be wrong, but ISTR some issues in the past where PC put up pre-sale information before actually sorting it out with the vendor, causing them to miss out on the first batch of modules that were released.

I want to be sure to pre-order from the right place, I have cash in hand ready to put down on this module
mdoudoroff
ACL lists Perfect Circuit, Noisebug and Detroit Modular as resellers, but Detroit has no ACL products to sell as yet, and Noisebug has ACL products but no pre-order for the Sinfonion. There’s no official word from ACL, itself, on pre-orders other than the curt directive on their web site. I pre-ordered with PC, but the whole situation is disconcerting. It’s a lot of money and it doesn’t feel like ACL is quite taking care of business.
hemeroscopium
fantastic vid! part with chords & vibrato made me :gas: hard

One aesthetic issue - please make the screen orange as well!!!! Orange round buttons with grey look very good, but the green screen is kind of out of place smile
chapelier fou
It's all really interesting and I must say that the whole concept is quite well-thought and, in a way, fits the way I think of music.

But :

- it feels to me that it's a piece of gear that is so tailor-made for @Supermathi that I would have difficulties to make it feel like mine.

- since @Supermathi has a Cirklon, what does the Sinfonion allow that the Cirklon doesn't ?

- What if I want to use an "accidental" note, out of the scale ?
It's so chord-centric. I know that's the point, but why has music to be either noisy only, or melodic only, or harmonic only ?
I mean, being harmonious is nice, but a bit boring in the end, isn't it ? Genius in music resides in happy accidents, mistakes and surprises. Doesn't the Sinfonion constrain music a lot, at the risk of producing music without personality ?

- for those who are curious, it reminds me of the concept I once developed for kids (but in a totally different context) https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/chapelier-fou-vegetophone-installation  /

Hope you'll find no aggressiveness in my questions/opinions. I'm sincerely interested, admirative, and respectful of your work.
Supermathi
erenod wrote:

One aesthetic issue - please make the screen orange as well!!!! Orange round buttons with grey look very good, but the green screen is kind of out of place smile


Of course you are right! But this is just the first prototype that you see in the vid. The second one already has a yellow screen. In fact the green was not intended but was a result from a yellow screen and a blueish display.

Thanks for liking my video...
Supermathi
chapelier fou wrote:

- since @Supermathi has a Cirklon, what does the Sinfonion allow that the Cirklon doesn't ?

- What if I want to use an "accidental" note, out of the scale ?
It's so chord-centric. I know that's the point, but why has music to be either noisy only, or melodic only, or harmonic only ?
I mean, being harmonious is nice, but a bit boring in the end, isn't it ? Genius in music resides in happy accidents, mistakes and surprises. Doesn't the Sinfonion constrain music a lot, at the risk of producing music without personality ?


@Cirlon: Well, this is a very long story. Overall the Sinfonion is the tool to tame randomness into music. The fact the I happen to use a Cirklon is irrelevant. Cirklon is overkill for what I do with it anyway. And a cirklon is about programming, the Sinfonion is about playing.

@accidents: Good point. Your are completely right! For that reason the Sinfonion has several feature that encourage exactly that. On is for example the FILL1... FILL5 at Channel 2 - exactly the out notes. Also several CVs and other features introduce disharmony - but under your control!
titanlegions
I have had the honour of using one of the Sinfonion prototypes and for me there was absolutely no feel of being constrained to someone else's workflow, it may not be the case for everyone of course but I found it slotted into my system perfectly. Mathias has done an amazing job of providing features that allow for a lot of flexibility and creativity.

I'll try to speak directly to some of your concerns chapelier fou, and specifically the idea that the perfect harmony is too constraining. To start with because you have the sequencer you are not pinned into any scale, you can do modal interchange and things like that just with the sequencer. 12 tone harmony has a lot of flexibility in it on it's own. Then in addition, as noted, you can allow non-scale notes through with the FILL buttons. And because of the sequencer and the A/B panel, you can control how much and when this happens. So you can allow random non-harmonic content through in a controlled fashion. Then in addition to that too, you have lots of options for modulation that can control detuning and stuff like that.

This concept of controlled randomness is exactly the kind of thing I'm interested in which is the main reason I'm so excited by this module. And it is so playable. Even when I was using it to do things I could do with a O&C, I can set them up so much faster and that is so valuable for live playability.

I don't use a Cirklon for the record, I was mainly using Marbles and a Metropolis summed with another simple sequencer out of sync with it to generate inputs to the Sinfonion.
chapelier fou
Many thanks for the answers !
Supermathi
chapelier fou wrote:
- it feels to me that it's a piece of gear that is so tailor-made for @Supermathi that I would have difficulties to make it feel like mine


By the way: for almost one and a half year Mario from Ströme is now playing the Sinfonion in all of his live gigs (which have been dozends). Many of his needs and ideas have influenced the development of the Sinfonion. So it is at least tailor made to two completely different musicians cool.
-S.L-
I guarantee i will use that module in a way you totally would not expect users to do with it hyper
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
I guarantee i will use that module in a way you totally would not expect users to do with it hyper


I hope so! And I'm really looking forward to see with what creative ideas you all come up with Guinness ftw!
Milanski
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH3aYVbILP4

Looks like your English brother was trying this in 1979! spinning
Jaypee
Milanski wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH3aYVbILP4

Looks like your English brother was trying this in 1979! spinning


Fantastic video!
titanlegions
Oh I saw that dude live not too long ago, fascinating stuff. I really just wanted to spend two hours after the gig asking him a million questions about the setup and how he uses the Kaleidophon. At the gig I was at he seemed to be using it to control a digital setup, I'm not sure exactly what it was, Reaktor possibly.

Here is some more info: http://www.unfretted.com/fretless-guitars/david-vorhaus-kaleidophon-an -early-electronic-unfretted-instrument/
Milanski
Yeah, he said in another article somewhere that he created a more complex version of the Maniac in Reaktor...great stuff...
Supermathi


Please enjoy and comment!
mdoudoroff
That was a superb video, Supermathi! Well done! I will be rewatching this and eagerly looking forward to the follow-up!
titanlegions
Awesome work sir!
Ttrev2k
LOVE this video series! we're not worthy
mdoudoroff
These videos should be added to the product page of the ACL site!
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
This is perfect! I've been interested in a more in-depth review of the Sinfonion, and here it is. @Supermathi, great work as always, thanks. thumbs up
Franktree
The second video is one of the best videos I've seen describing how a module works (particularly given how complex this particular module is) while at the same time getting me sufficiently excited about it to give me major GAS.

I know this has probably been asked 100 times, but there's still no sense of when they're going to start going out dealers, is there?
zoneswithoutpeople
Does this thing have internal sequencers or arpeggiators in it? Or do all the channels need external sequencing?

What kind of sequencers are people thinking of pairing with this?
batch
Agre the videos are great. Very, very well done.
titanlegions
zoneswithoutpeople wrote:
Does this thing have internal sequencers or arpeggiators in it? Or do all the channels need external sequencing?

What kind of sequencers are people thinking of pairing with this?


It has an internal sequencer for the chord progression, and an arpeggiator. So for those you just need a clock source. But the main quantisation channels expect some kind of external sequence or other input to quantise.

Personally I'll be using Marbles, Metropolis (summed with a out of phase second source) and my ER-101s. Might see if I can fit a Turing machine with Volts back in as well — I do really like Marbles but there is something about the Turing machine. I recall Tom saying in an interview that every time he tried to modify the Turing machine design he felt like it became worse — it's a really interesting sweet spot.
Supermathi
titanlegions wrote:
Personally I'll be using Marbles, Metropolis (summed with a out of phase second source) and my ER-101s.


Yes, something like Marbles or a relatively simple sequencer works really well with the Sinfonion. Also nice is one simple sequencer modulated or summed with another one. What I sometimes do is clocking one sequencer with the gate of antother one. Even white noise can create interesting melodies. Or a manually controlled CV input like a joystick or ribbon controller.
mdoudoroff
zoneswithoutpeople wrote:

What kind of sequencers are people thinking of pairing with this?


One of the most interesting things about the Sinfonion concept (and to a lesser extent, Ornament & Crime) is that it flips the script on sequencing. You can use straightforward voltage sources (basic sequencers... or anything else) and Sinfonion will bend what they produce into the conventional musical context of your choice. It’s a radical alternative to the complex sequencers that are the current default option for many folks trying to create polyphonic music on their modular. Those complex sequencers may be elaborated with probability features and such to try to add interest, but at their heart, they all come down to some sort of (usually tedious) pattern programming within the mostly-closed system of a particular module. The Sinfonion approach is arguably more modular-friendly. Sinfonion is quite complex, itself, but it’s laser-focused on one task (managing pitches).

So, the answer is anything! If you don’t like what you’re hearing, patch something else! With Sinfonion, you get to focus on how your cv fluctuates, without having to worry about how you’re going to hit the “right notes”. Sinfonion ensures you hit the right notes, and then enables you to change those up “on a dime”.

I’ve spent a lot of time studying Eurorack sequencers (see my comparison linked below), and I think Sinfonion actually questions whether all those complex sequencers have been trying to solve the right problem in the first place?
damase
mdoudoroff wrote:
zoneswithoutpeople wrote:

What kind of sequencers are people thinking of pairing with this?


One of the most interesting things about the Sinfonion concept (and to a lesser extent, Ornament & Crime) is that it flips the script on sequencing. You can use straightforward voltage sources (basic sequencers... or anything else) and Sinfonion will bend what they produce into the conventional musical context of your choice. It’s a radical alternative to the complex sequencers that are the current default option for many folks trying to create polyphonic music on their modular. Those complex sequencers may be elaborated with probability features and such to try to add interest, but at their heart, they all come down to some sort of (usually tedious) pattern programming within the mostly-closed system of a particular module. The Sinfonion approach is arguably more modular-friendly. Sinfonion is quite complex, itself, but it’s laser-focused on one task (managing pitches).

So, the answer is anything! If you don’t like what you’re hearing, patch something else! With Sinfonion, you get to focus on how your cv fluctuates, without having to worry about how you’re going to hit the “right notes”. Sinfonion ensures you hit the right notes, and then enables you to change those up “on a dime”.

I’ve spent a lot of time studying Eurorack sequencers (see my comparison linked below), and I think Sinfonion actually questions whether all those complex sequencers have been trying to solve the right problem in the first place?


very well put. this module alone makes me want to break my self imposed rack limit and take advantage of this kind of modularity
zengomi
This module seems to be the panacea for getting the "right notes". So a must have.

I think wrong notes is where it's at, and where it's going.

But right notes will always have a place.
mdoudoroff
zengomi wrote:
I think wrong notes is where it's at, and where it's going.

But right notes will always have a place.


My understanding is that Supermathi has taken considerable trouble to add passthrough so that ”wrong notes” can be easily integrated amidst the “right notes”. Hopefully, his next video will get into that?
cackland
This latest video explains of lot of questions I had previously, definitely on the radar to see more demos smile
Supermathi
Two days ago the ACL's new four-head pick & place machine has arrived and the guys are already half way through setting it up and doing a first test run. They decided to build up their own production line. Waiting times for PCB assembly in Germany had recently increased to three months and more. I hope that an own production will speed up things in future.

Meanwhile a couple of prototypes with a new PCB revision are being built (still manually). Mine is still working perfectly so I do not see any need for further changes or fixes. It's just perfect smile

I keep you updated.
cioaudio
If someone has time to measure the power consumption for modulargrid that would be great.

A link to the manual when it has been updated would be the other useful thing in the absence of actual modules.

Otherwise keep the videos coming, they are excellent.
batch
For those in the US, Detroit Modular is now taking preorders for April delivery.
mdoudoroff
batch wrote:
For those in the US, Detroit Modular is now taking preorders for April delivery.


For highly speculative April delivery
batch
Not disagreeing, just sharing that their website is now also taking preorders for those inclined. I emailed Dan at DM who confirmed they will be getting some of the first batch. I have preordered from them before and always found them to come through (unlike Perfect Circuit who will post preorders for everything/ anything).

http://www.detroitmodular.com/acl-sinfonion.html

With that in mind I have handed over my $1000 to get on the list for one of these bad boys!!
giftculture
batch wrote:
Not disagreeing, just sharing that their website is now also taking preorders for those inclined. I emailed Dan at DM who confirmed they will be getting some of the first batch. I have preordered from them before and always found them to come through (unlike Perfect Circuit who will post preorders for everything/ anything).

http://www.detroitmodular.com/acl-sinfonion.html

With that in mind I have handed over my $1000 to get on the list for one of these bad boys!!


I have done the same! I hope we both make the first batch!!! This combined with the five12 Vector sequencer is going to be an amazing combination!
mdoudoroff
batch wrote:
Not disagreeing, just sharing that their website is now also taking preorders for those inclined. I emailed Dan at DM who confirmed they will be getting some of the first batch. I have preordered from them before and always found them to come through (unlike Perfect Circuit who will post preorders for everything/ anything).

http://www.detroitmodular.com/acl-sinfonion.html

With that in mind I have handed over my $1000 to get on the list for one of these bad boys!!


Totally agree. I’d prefer to order from DM, but I did so with PC because of... you know... the fear. I just wish DM wouldn’t post “for April delivery” when that can only be a rough estimate at this time, for obvious reasons. People get unrealistic expectations, then the whining starts.
Milanski
Of the two UK distributors listed on the ACL site, one said pre-orders were not available with them and the other hasn't responded Dead Banana

Mathias, can you confirm if any of the first batch are coming to the UK (if so, where?) or is Schneider's the place?

This looks to be an immensely fun module. Thanks for designing it!
Franktree
Couldn't resist. Placed a pre-order with Perfect Circuit. I really hope it's not more than a couple months before all that money actually gets put to use!
XiXora
Milanski wrote:
Of the two UK distributors listed on the ACL site, one said pre-orders were not available with them and the other hasn't responded Dead Banana

May not matter once our country has imploded wrt shipping… everything may or may not be delayed razz
Supermathi


I would love to get your feedback cool
cioaudio
Another excellent video that explains how to get 5 voice chords, which negates my concern that it may be stuck at 4 voice chords. It seems 6 voice chords should also be possible and may be a good reason to buy a second Sinfonion to have enough quantizer channels smile
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Once again - exceeding expectations!
Now I can cover this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHDmTWBdEXs&t=3140s
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:

I would love to get your feedback cool


Yeah, my feedback is that you’re doing an exemplary job on these videos. Thank you!

I love what you did with the spread feature.

The chaotic detune feature is interesting—I can see sending an envelope into that.
mdoudoroff
cioaudio wrote:
Another excellent video that explains how to get 5 voice chords, which negates my concern that it may be stuck at 4 voice chords. It seems 6 voice chords should also be possible and may be a good reason to buy a second Sinfonion to have enough quantizer channels smile


It seems to me you’re actually producing up to an eight voice chord with a single Sinfonion, should you choose to employ all its faculties to that effect. Only four of the voices are under the auspices of the chord section itself, but that doesn’t mean the other three quantizers and arp cannot participate, too, no? You just have to set them accordingly?
cioaudio
mdoudoroff wrote:
cioaudio wrote:
Another excellent video that explains how to get 5 voice chords, which negates my concern that it may be stuck at 4 voice chords. It seems 6 voice chords should also be possible and may be a good reason to buy a second Sinfonion to have enough quantizer channels smile


It seems to me you’re actually producing up to an eight voice chord with a single Sinfonion, should you choose to employ all its faculties to that effect. Only four of the voices are under the auspices of the chord section itself, but that doesn’t mean the other three quantizers and arp cannot participate, too, no? You just have to set them accordingly?


Theoretically may be so but arguably not so useful in practice. 5 notes give you 9th chords, 6 notes gives 11ths and 7 notes gives 13ths. There are no more degrees in most scales so an 8 voice chord would have 2 voices playing the same note.

Also a 13th chord contains all the notes of the scale so you would typically omit at least one degree when playing a 13th making a notionally 7 voice chord just 6 voices or less. Its also not unusual to omit a note from 11th chords, making notional 6 voice chords just 5 voices.

That's good because it leaves a useful amount of quantizers available for bass and melodic purposes, without really limiting you on chord complexity at all.
Supermathi
cioaudio wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
cioaudio wrote:
Another excellent video that explains how to get 5 voice chords, which negates my concern that it may be stuck at 4 voice chords. It seems 6 voice chords should also be possible and may be a good reason to buy a second Sinfonion to have enough quantizer channels smile


It seems to me you’re actually producing up to an eight voice chord with a single Sinfonion, should you choose to employ all its faculties to that effect. Only four of the voices are under the auspices of the chord section itself, but that doesn’t mean the other three quantizers and arp cannot participate, too, no? You just have to set them accordingly?


Theoretically may be so but arguably not so useful in practice. 5 notes give you 9th chords, 6 notes gives 11ths and 7 notes gives 13ths. There are no more degrees in most scales so an 8 voice chord would have 2 voices playing the same note.

Also a 13th chord contains all the notes of the scale so you would typically omit at least one degree when playing a 13th making a notionally 7 voice chord just 6 voices or less. Its also not unusual to omit a note from 11th chords, making notional 6 voice chords just 5 voices.

That's good because it leaves a useful amount of quantizers available for bass and melodic purposes, without really limiting you on chord complexity at all.


Yes, seven voiced chords are a bit strange. But sometimes we seek the strange, don't we. And you just brought me to the idea to use two Sinfonions for creating a 12-voiced chord with all notes of the chromatic scale - distributed over 3 or 4 octaves. And that would still leave 4 outputs left for some crazy melodies cool

Or we could experiment with "negative" chords: For example you play all notes of the chromatic scale except C, Eb, G and Bb - which would give a negative C minor chord. eek!
titanlegions
It would be great to see a demo of the sync feature.
giftculture
My feedback is that these videos are awesome and that it is going to be hard to be patient for my sinfonion to arrive!

Supermathi wrote:


I would love to get your feedback cool
-S.L-
after watching the 3 episodes, here's my conclusion:

needs an expander with extra assignable Pots for more option It's peanut butter jelly time!

is that an optionn, one day ? applause
mdoudoroff
-S.L- wrote:
after watching the 3 episodes, here's my conclusion:

needs an expander with extra assignable Pots for more option


The basis of this conclusion is not obvious to me.

What is obvious to me is that, for live playing—as opposed to automated or sequenced situations—having some stored voltage selectors around (e.g., Pressure Points, Mini Horse) will be desirable for selecting, on demand, chord voicing, sequence step, sequence part, etc. If anything, I’d be worried about running out of assignable CV inputs.
danishchairs
mdoudoroff wrote:
-S.L- wrote:
...needs an expander with extra assignable Pots for more option

The basis of this conclusion is not obvious to me. ... If anything, I’d be worried about running out of assignable CV inputs.

Perhaps you’re both talking about nearly the same thing, more ways to influence the changes, either with pots or CV. I’d like more, too.
titanlegions
If we are talking expanders, my vote would go to a midi input that can guess the chord based on the notes being received, so the Sinfonions could track my keyboard playing.
-S.L-
titanlegions wrote:
If we are talking expanders, my vote would go to a midi input that can guess the chord based on the notes being received, so the Sinfonions could track my keyboard playing.


so we can all be Stevie Wonder applause
Supermathi
titanlegions wrote:
It would be great to see a demo of the sync feature.


Here we go... cool

mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:
titanlegions wrote:
It would be great to see a demo of the sync feature.


Here we go... cool



Slick. thumbs up
cioaudio
Supermathi wrote:
titanlegions wrote:
It would be great to see a demo of the sync feature.


Here we go... cool



Splendid. Looking some way ahead, will the serial protocol for master/slave connection be an open protocol?

The reason I ask is that it appears the Sinfonion is one of the only devices of a system that fully understands tonaliity and it may be useful for non-Sinfonion devices to be slaves to a Sinfonion.
titanlegions
Awesome, thanks so much Mathias we're not worthy
StillNotWorking
Beside the cost this module looks absolutely amazing.

May I ask if it has MIDI out so we can utilize a polyphonic synth for chords?
mdoudoroff
StillNotWorking wrote:
May I ask if it has MIDI out so we can utilize a polyphonic synth for chords?


There’s no indication that it does, and I foresee a fundamental problem: Sinfonion is purely a quantizer. It doesn’t have anything to do with note gates, so it has no standalone basis for creating MIDI note events.

You could combine the Sinfonion with the ADDAC222 and the note gate source (and optional velocity CV source) of your choice.
cioaudio
StillNotWorking wrote:
Beside the cost this module looks absolutely amazing.

May I ask if it has MIDI out so we can utilize a polyphonic synth for chords?


It doesn't, and although it is only concerned with pitch it does have a digital expansion header and it would appear to be feasible to have an expansion with one MIDI socket and a bunch of gate inputs such that timing could be added to the pitch information to create MIDI notes.

I too would like this feature and I imagine many folk may already have a hardware polysynth laying around even if they don't have a polyphonic modular yet. It could be a very useful stepping stone to a fully modular setup. I could even foresee Sinfonion being used without any other modular gear, just a bunch of hardware synths.
StillNotWorking
Not sure I understand the pitch "problem"? From what I've seen in the videos my understanding are that all Notes CV values are locked to a prefixed voltage table — which we later shall be able to reference in the manual? Implying the module internally operate with fixed values and add glides and random tuning on top of these which I undertsand could be lost — unless MIDI is implemented multitimbral?
mdoudoroff
cioaudio wrote:
it does have a digital expansion header and it would appear to be feasible to have an expansion with one MIDI socket and a bunch of gate inputs such that timing could be added to the pitch information to create MIDI notes.


That expansion header is generating speculation, but unless I missed something, Mathias has not actually commented on what it is or is not capable of. Would be most intriguing if it was an i2c connector, since there’s already a lot of interesting stuff going on with that and Whimsical Raps, monome and Orthogonal Devices.

cioaudio wrote:
I too would like this feature and I imagine many folk may already have a hardware polysynth laying around even if they don't have a polyphonic modular yet. It could be a very useful stepping stone to a fully modular setup. I could even foresee Sinfonion being used without any other modular gear, just a bunch of hardware synths.


You raise an interesting point, but the details are murky. How are you going to “play” a bunch of MIDI devices using the Sinfonion and no other modular gear?

StillNotWorking wrote:
Not sure I understand the pitch "problem"?


Pitch isn’t the problem, per se. Sinfonion is a device that instantly converts one control voltage into a 1v/o pitch voltage. These voltages are continuous.

The gate problem is that MIDI is a stream of events (time based, not continuous)… note goes on, note goes off. Sinfonion knows a lot about pitches, but knows nothing about the temporal aspects of a note to be played.

StillNotWorking wrote:
From what I've seen in the videos my understanding are that all Notes CV values are locked to a prefixed voltage table — which we later shall be able to reference in the manual?


Unlike most quantizers, there’s no need to reference the manual or worry about voltage tables: your pitches—scales—all right there on the Sinfonion’s screen.

Quote:
Implying the module internally operate with fixed values and add glides and random tuning on top of these which I undertsand could be lost — unless MIDI is implemented multitimbral?


Hypothetically, glides and/or pitch bend could be translated to MIDI with sufficient context.
f33d
Quote:
The gate problem is that MIDI is a stream of events (time based, not continuous)… note goes on, note goes off. Sinfonion knows a lot about pitches, but knows nothing about the temporal aspects of a note to be played.


- I've understood from the manual, that no gate-ins are needed, so that every time a quantization happens it counts as a note with the appropriate trigger out and so "the gate problem" would be solved:
every quantization starts with a "trig-out-gate" and the gate is high as long as no new quantization happened.
what do you think?
mdoudoroff
f33d wrote:
- I've understood from the manual, that no gate-ins are needed, so that every time a quantization happens it counts as a note with the appropriate trigger out and so "the gate problem" would be solved:
every quantization starts with a "trig-out-gate" and the gate is high as long as no new quantization happened.
what do you think?


Way way too limiting.
StillNotWorking
mdoudoroff wrote:

Pitch isn’t the problem, per se. Sinfonion is a device that instantly converts one control voltage into a 1v/o pitch voltage. These voltages are continuous.

The gate problem is that MIDI is a stream of events (time based, not continuous)… note goes on, note goes off. Sinfonion knows a lot about pitches, but knows nothing about the temporal aspects of a note to be played.


Yes I understand this, but as demoed in one of the videos the continuous mode aren't the most musically and solved using triggers. Hence it nearly have all that's needed for MIDI implementation beside listening to gates rather than triggers for note lenght.
cioaudio
mdoudoroff wrote:
cioaudio wrote:
it does have a digital expansion header and it would appear to be feasible to have an expansion with one MIDI socket and a bunch of gate inputs such that timing could be added to the pitch information to create MIDI notes.


That expansion header is generating speculation, but unless I missed something, Mathias has not actually commented on what it is or is not capable of. Would be most intriguing if it was an i2c connector, since there’s already a lot of interesting stuff going on with that and Whimsical Raps, monome and Orthogonal Devices.


That's true, I'm basing my hope on stm32f4 designs I've done and knowledge of how you can allocate gpio to whatever functional blocks are still unused. Give only one serial port appears to have been used there's a good chance there's a spare one and gates could be done regardless. The header looks to have a good number of pins. I have no idea what Matthias had in mind for it but its potentially capable of quite a lot.
cioaudio
mdoudoroff wrote:
cioaudio wrote:
I too would like this feature and I imagine many folk may already have a hardware polysynth laying around even if they don't have a polyphonic modular yet. It could be a very useful stepping stone to a fully modular setup. I could even foresee Sinfonion being used without any other modular gear, just a bunch of hardware synths.


You raise an interesting point, but the details are murky. How are you going to “play” a bunch of MIDI devices using the Sinfonion and no other modular gear?


True, it would probably be necessary to have some modules, possibly only sequencer modules, potentially only something like Expert Sleepers ES-3 with some expanders and a DAW. Just not necessarily any voice modules. Indeed I'm currently using Expert sleepers ES-6 to get 4 channel pitch from an Instruo Hamonaig using Silent Witness on the DAW because I have more hardware polysynths than polyphonic voice modules. So that's an alternative to a MIDI output but depends on using a DAW.
mOBiTh
My main hope for the Sinfonion is that the firmware is bulletproof.

I've lost count of how many firmware based products I've bought in recent years that were either uselessly unreliable or just functionally not fit for purpose - it makes me angry just thinking about it.

I would MUCH prefer the feature set to be short, sweet and RELIABLE, than anything else, so here's hoping ACL work on ROBUSTNESS and not gimmicks...

I'm sick of being involuntarily implicated in some company's beta testing program when what I actually paid for was a well designed, working product that I could make music with.

thumbs up
bkbirge
mOBiTh wrote:
My main hope for the Sinfonion is that the firmware is bulletproof.


I wholeheartedly agree. Given that the designer has been gigging with this for quite awhile now I'm reasonably confident he's got that covered. But yeah, I'd vote for over engineered unit testing rather than feature creep if that was the dichotomy of choice.
f33d
Quote:
Way way too limiting.


This way of Midi-Out would give you exactly the same feature for all your Midi-gear as the Sinfonion aims to provide for your modular aka different channels of quantized stream of notes aka being the best Quantizer ever made.
That's too limiting for you mate?
So you propose a Gate-Sequencer inside the Sinfonion?
hihi
mdoudoroff
f33d wrote:
This way of Midi-Out would give you exactly the same feature for all your Midi-gear as the Sinfonion aims to provide for your modular


Nah. Sinfonion provides constant pitch CV to your oscillators. There is no MIDI equivalent for that. What you do with those oscillators on your modular is up to you. Yes, Sinfonion can provide a trigger when quantization changes, and that trigger can be useful for patching, but that trigger is merely a tool. To rely entirely on that trigger to bake MIDI note on/off events would be awful—the only thing your MIDI synths would be able to do is follow it.

f33d wrote:
So you propose a Gate-Sequencer inside the Sinfonion?


Absolutely not.
Supermathi
cioaudio wrote:

It doesn't, and although it is only concerned with pitch it does have a digital expansion header and it would appear to be feasible to have an expansion with one MIDI socket and a bunch of gate inputs such that timing could be added to the pitch information to create MIDI notes..


I had indeed the same idea: Creating an expander with five gate inputs - one for each section. And one MIDI output. Gates from the inputs and pitches from the Sinfonion are combined into note-on/note-off events. So in theory this sounds like a plan. But there are some subtle problems to expext:

One is for example the fact that most sequencers need a couple of ms until the pitch gets stable. Usually you use the Sinfonion without a trigger in this situation. This gives time for the output pitch to get stable as well without any actual latency in the gate. But with MIDI what should we do with the note-on event? There is no go way to "revise" the pitch of a note once it has been started. The only way is pitch bend. But that has a low resolution and what's worst it is not standardized amongst the different MIDI devices.

I'll probably try this out and then decide if there is a feasable way to do this.

Buy the way: The expansion port has been created with no specific expansion in mind but we've put everything there that could be helpful in future. It has one I2C-port, one SPI-port, one serial interface and three GPIOs.
mdoudoroff
- seems to me a MIDI expander would need a set of velocity CV input jacks in addition to gates

- would a single velocity and gate for the entire chord-to-MIDI event be too primitive?

- some Monome Teletype folks will probably be excited by the i2c port if and when it’s listening to commands (https://llllllll.co/t/teletype-i2c-protocol/13642)
Supermathi
My main focus is to get the module into production without any new features for the while. As was mentioned today in this thread - stability must always have priority. Currently there is no known bug. But my experiance from software development has shown that the number of known bugs increases with the number of users.

Also what the Sinfonion does not lack currenlty is features cool What it definitely lacks is availability. But this will be amended soon Guinness ftw!.

When all you musicians out there have used the module for a decent time and got enough time to gather experience I'm sure that the feature requests will stabilize around some substantial ideas, which I'm looking forward to.

I'm really excited to see what crazy and creative ideas you guys come up with for using this module d'oh!...
StillNotWorking
mdoudoroff wrote:
- seems to me a MIDI expander would need a set of velocity CV input jacks in addition to gates

- would a single velocity and gate for the entire chord-to-MIDI event be too primitive?

Possible workaround to create some dynamic could be to return audio from the poly to one or more VCAs in the Eurorack. One could make this very convoluted using separate outputs from single or multiple polys to multiple VCA's. But my initial intention for this topic where simple pads using familiar sounds.
cioaudio
mdoudoroff wrote:
- seems to me a MIDI expander would need a set of velocity CV input jacks in addition to gates

- would a single velocity and gate for the entire chord-to-MIDI event be too primitive?



The SPI port would be spare after serial was used for MIDI, I2C and GPIO used for 5 gate ins so it would just about be possible to use a low resolution ADC for 7 bit velocity inputs. I'm not sure that's strictly a 'need', it wasn't uncommon for some hardware synths to not respond to velocity anyway, but I agree it may be desirable.

I think a single gate for chords is reasonable. There are two obvious use cases for separate gates. The first is arpeggiation which the Sinfonion does anyway. The second is for 'strumming'. But classic MIDI is inherently a serial protocol so all chords are actually strummed and its impossible to play all notes at the same time. It would be possible for the Sinfonion to exaggerate this serialisation and it may even alleviate some of the pitch settling time worries Matthias mentioned. But then you probably want a CV in to control strum time and a digital input to select strum direction and the complexity increases...

I'm not sure anybody really has enough sequencers or time to realistically program separate velocities for chord notes. Some time ago I wrote some automatic composition software and although it was simple to use harmonic theory for pitches and simple division of time for times I got a bit stuck on velocities. There aren't any obvious rules for which notes should be louder that others at any time. In the end I could do no better than slightly randomising the velocities. From measuring what people actually play this doesn't appear unreasonable. So again I think a single velocity input for chords would be adequate with the Sinfonion providing some control over the amount of randomisation of per note velocities. That would arguably get you a long way towards 'humanisation' with relatively little design complexity or user effort.
mdoudoroff
Supermathi, how goes production? Is the pick-and-place up and running?

What’s next video-wise? The sequencer? I suspect the Arpeggiator deserves a video because it is cool. I think I already understand it pretty well, but I bet you have some tips/tricks that won’t be obvious in the manual, and some of the clock/reset and trigger delay stuff could be demonstrated). I also think the A/B system for Quantizer 1 could use some some demonstration and examples: it seems fairly straightforward, but perhaps there’s some nuance there?
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:
Supermathi, how goes production? Is the pick-and-place up and running?

What’s next video-wise? The sequencer? I suspect the Arpeggiator deserves a video because it is cool. I think I already understand it pretty well, but I bet you have some tips/tricks that won’t be obvious in the manual, and some of the clock/reset and trigger delay stuff could be demonstrated). I also think the A/B system for Quantizer 1 could use some some demonstration and examples: it seems fairly straightforward, but perhaps there’s some nuance there?


Hi Martin,

ACL will try to do a first real production with the new assembly machines this weekend. They told me that everything is settled out and looks good so far. They start with a smaller PCB - a new VCA. Would be a shame to do this with a large PCB with so expensive components like in the Sinfonion...

As to the videos: The next one will probably be on the sequencer and after that on the arpeggiator.
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:
ACL will try to do a first real production with the new assembly machines this weekend. They told me that everything is settled out and looks good so far. They start with a smaller PCB - a new VCA. Would be a shame to do this with a large PCB with so expensive components like in the Sinfonion...


No kidding. I’d be tempted to start with a mult! lol

Supermathi wrote:
As to the videos: The next one will probably be on the sequencer and after that on the arpeggiator.


Looking forward to them!
Supermathi
cioaudio wrote:

Splendid. Looking some way ahead, will the serial protocol for master/slave connection be an open protocol?

The reason I ask is that it appears the Sinfonion is one of the only devices of a system that fully understands tonaliity and it may be useful for non-Sinfonion devices to be slaves to a Sinfonion.


Hi, the protocol is very simple and I gladly will make this open when somebody wants to implement it on another device. There are just two possible stumbling blocks here:

    1. In order to keep the amount of transferred data minimal (i.e. have a short latency) the protocol does not transfer the actual scale but just the degree and mode number. So any potential slave needs to have the exactly same scheme of degrees and modes like the Sinfonion - at least in memory


    2. Any future change in the Sinfonion - e.g. new scales - would essentially break the protocol and make things incompatible


Besides from that I have had the idea myself. There could be a couple of interesting applications - like sequencers, melody generators, other quantisers and so on that could join in the "Sinfonion network"...
titanlegions
You could consider a "sync scale settings" as a separate transfer protocol that must be manually initiated on both devices. Then it would only need to be done if there is any update to the scales and you maintain the minimal data of the original protocol.

Of course, that would require a future proof representation of the scales and settings of some kind I guess, so you still have a potential problem there, but it might be easier to deal with that way.
Supermathi
Hi,

here is another improvisation with two Sinfonions. This time it's a bit overkill, since almost all voices play a C. eek!

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/improvisations-12[/s]
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Supermathi
Great job on the new track! I can't wait to use my incoming Sinfonion to help make huge soundscapes. Thanks for posting that piece.
titanlegions
Sounds awesome!
cioaudio
musicstore have just revised my delivery date from end April to beginning June. Probably can't read too much into this since I think the original date was a complete guess. But maybe there are lots of preorders or production isn't ramping as quickly as hoped.
Supermathi
titanlegions
Ah dude, you make such lovely clear videos.

A question, when you are sequencing a slaved device, do the button settings get mirrored, or can they operate independently? Also the same question about the chord settings such as spread?

Hope the pick and place machine is running well. How did the VCA construction go?
pixelforest
Supermathi wrote:
Hi,

here is another improvisation with two Sinfonions. This time it's a bit overkill, since almost all voices play a C. eek!

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/improvisations-12[/s]


secret hidden track from the bladerunner 2049 score? might as well be! would love to see video of this.
giftculture
Is there a way to back up songs from the sinfonion in case it is filled up?
-S.L-
how funny is that I had the Freeze function in my head, and I have never touched a Sinfonion yet ! w00t

when can we get that module ???? Dead Banana
Supermathi
giftculture wrote:
Is there a way to back up songs from the sinfonion in case it is filled up?


Sorry, right now not. I could be possible in a future version, maybe....
Supermathi
titanlegions wrote:
A question, when you are sequencing a slaved device, do the button settings get mirrored, or can they operate independently? Also the same question about the chord settings such as spread?


Ah. Good question! A slave of a sequenced Sinfonion will always be in "live" mode - i.e. the buttons will never be sequenced here. This is a restriction but It seems to me the easiest way to do this. Otherwise the slave would also be forced to use the sequenced mode and store the button settings in its own sequences - while ignoring the actual roots and scales there. That seemed very confusing to me.
mdoudoroff
Another magnificent video with Episode 5! Very exciting.

So, in an attempt to better understand, I so far see three main approaches to using Sinfonion:


1 — Rely entirely on the chord progression sequencer for song structure

You program a song with up to four parts, clock Sinfonion, and it does its thing.

Switching parts is manual or CV-based (1 octave—1 volt—per part).

Song reset trigger is needed to restart everything from the beginning (manual gate or from assignable jack)

Question: is there no trigger output available when Sinfonion changes parts?

If you want to go crazy and your song needs more than four parts, you can span multiple “songs”, in which case you have to handle song switching, either by switching songs manually (turn knob) or use CV (1 semitone per song). Above still applies.

Question: Can you cue a song switch for the end of the currently-playing part, or is a song switch instant, but beat-quantized?

Question: Does switching songs effectively reset to 1A of that song?


2 — Externally sequence the Sinfonion chord progression sequencer

Sinfonion chord progression sequencer is stopped. Part (and song, if needed) are selected manually or via CV, per above. Part step is advanced by gate (manual or CV trigger).

Song reset needed to restart everything from the beginning (manual gate or from assignable jack)


3 — Manual usage and/or externally sequence the Sinfonion WITHOUT the chord progression sequencer

Sequencer is disabled, and you play the UI and/or employ CV as you like.

----

Did I miss any other approaches?
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:
Another magnificent video with Episode 5! Very exciting.

So, in an attempt to better understand, I so far see three main approaches to using Sinfonion:


1 — Rely entirely on the chord progression sequencer for song structure

You program a song with up to four parts, clock Sinfonion, and it does its thing.

Switching parts is manual or CV-based (1 octave—1 volt—per part).

Song reset trigger is needed to restart everything from the beginning (manual gate or from assignable jack)

Question: is there no trigger output available when Sinfonion changes parts?

If you want to go crazy and your song needs more than four parts, you can span multiple “songs”, in which case you have to handle song switching, either by switching songs manually (turn knob) or use CV (1 semitone per song). Above still applies.

Question: Can you cue a song switch for the end of the currently-playing part, or is a song switch instant, but beat-quantized?

Question: Does switching songs effectively reset to 1A of that song?


2 — Externally sequence the Sinfonion chord progression sequencer

Sinfonion chord progression sequencer is stopped. Part (and song, if needed) are selected manually or via CV, per above. Part step is advanced by gate (manual or CV trigger).

Song reset needed to restart everything from the beginning (manual gate or from assignable jack)


3 — Manual usage and/or externally sequence the Sinfonion WITHOUT the chord progression sequencer

Sequencer is disabled, and you play the UI and/or employ CV as you like.

----

Did I miss any other approaches?


Hi Martin,

here are some answers:

1. There is no trigger (yet) at the point of a song part switch. Would be easy to do, however...

2. Song switching is only immediately. The scheduled switching is just with in a song (between the parts).

3. There are various ways of manually switching chords. One way is this: create a song part and treat it just as a "collection" of chords. The during your performance you open the SONG page and choose chords by pressing the according buttons. In my live rig I have combined this with an external mini keyboard for selecting the root note. Currently I mainly improvise chord progressions. But last year I've played a couple of gigs with prepare progressions. I love the fact that both is possible.
bkbirge
Supermathi wrote:

1. There is no trigger (yet) at the point of a song part switch. Would be easy to do, however...


That would be quite useful I think.
mdoudoroff
I can definitely see a song part trigger being useful to advance a sequencer or sequential switch. Worse, I imagine uses for a trigger n beats prior to the change to trigger a fill or transition.

(hides)
Supermathi


This time it's the arpeggiator Rockin' Banana!. Please enjoy, subscribe and comment we're not worthy
mdoudoroff
Another fine video! The Arpeggiator is so approachable that I expect it will be one of the first aspects of the Sinfonion I dig into.

The 1.2.1 manual draft section 9.4 references a “SYNC button”. Is that instead a menu setting?

I don’t see much info on arpeggiator CV support in the manual draft. Can we CV stuff like reset, direction, pattern, begin, and range?
-S.L-
tha'ts where the expander is coming handy Mr. Green
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
tha'ts where the expander is coming handy Mr. Green

Oh, CVs are assignable anyway. Adding a few more options should be easy smile
Supermathi
Hey guys,

I've just created an update of the user manual. It now contains a couple of new diagrams and updated screen shots.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ya6P0K4jGQjjhSCu9TySecMrUE9NsQ41

If you find any typos, grammatical problems, weird explanations or other crap please drop me a note.
Supermathi
Hey guys,

thanks for your plenty of feedback. I've fixed quite a bunch of typos with your help. Here is a revised version of the manual:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IH7Dm4fVtmvmFtGQ0eOHoMpbm7D9K9HH
cioaudio
I've really appreciated reading an updated manual but one reason I had to read it so many times was because I had a mental block on what the DEGREE control did.
It is perhaps unfortunate that in the introduction it is merely described as selecting chord quality. I suppose this is effectively yet another synonym for scale/chord. The word quality does not appear again in the document which does not help tie terminology together.

It isn't really fully explained until the Major mode is described on page 61. Iin some modes where a full cadence is involved the DEGREE control will actually select scale degree, at least at some positions.

It is also explained quite late in the manual about the equivalence of scales and chords, again this is arguably problematic when using different synonyms interchangeably prior to that.

So my understanding is that there are too many scales/chords to be selected from a single control so MODE selects a specific liist of related chords/scales, DEGREE then selects a specific chord/scale from that list.

If that is correct the manual could perhaps be clearer about their relationship a little earlier.
If that is incorrect the manual could perhaps be clearer about whatever I misunderstood smile
Supermathi
Hi all,

thanks you all for finding typos in the manual. I've created an updated version (with the same content):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zK741zgA9YUPRiFTsaPknQo6rt9Zug_R

If you don't mind missplaced commas and other typos don't need an update.
mdoudoroff
applause

cioaudio
Another superb video
batch
Any update on when these might start shipping?
cioaudio
the stores who have ordered suggest June
Innerself2007
Probably a question more for Detroit Modular but does anyone know why its says "Out of stock" on their order page for the Sinfonion? It used to have a pre-order button.
I see I can pre-order at Perfect Circle, any other U.S. stores to pre-order?
Looking forward to this one.
monads
They probably took down the ''pre-order" after accounting for their initial batch of shipment being sold out. Perfect Circuit normally keeps pre-orders open and fills them as batches become available/order preference from line in the queue.
Innerself2007
monads wrote:
They probably took down the ''pre-order" after accounting for their initial batch of shipment being sold out. Perfect Circuit normally keeps pre-orders open and fills them as batches become available/order preference from line in the queue.


OK good to know, thanks for the info
Innerself2007
Just placed my order with Perfect Circuit!
Looking forward to this one!
obust
Hi Supermathi !

Great work on the Sinfonion. I am looking into Quad VCOs to play the chords. I saw that you recommended the Doepfer A-111-4 quad VCO.

Supermathi wrote:
Just got my A-111-4 Doepfer quad VCO. Awesome module and a perfect match for the CHORDS section of the sinfonion...


However, I have been lurking at 4ms SWN (Spherical Wavetable Navigator) and wondered if it would be a good match with the Sinfonion.
Aside from the fact that only 4 voice out of 6 would be used when paired with the Sinfonion, I think that the spherical wavetables is a great way to expand what the chords can do and is orthogonal to the Sinfonion controls. This echos @mdoudoroff previous comment:

mdoudoroff wrote:
Supermathi’s video makes me pine for a compact quad oscillator built around DCOs, with only one tuning control that sets the base frequency for all four oscillators, four 1v/o jacks, and only as many additional controls/ins/outs as really add value for the chordal context. A fully digital quad wavetable oscillator might make sense here, with an emphasis on low harmonic content waveforms? Maybe even optional sub octave added in? Perhaps some internal output rotation/mixing to make patch management more conveniently flexible?

The A-111-4 is a good value, and it has the sum outs, which is nice, but I think there’s a growing niche market for something even more focused (not just because of the Sinfonion).


Do you see any potential functional conflict between SWN and Sinfonion ?
mdoudoroff
obust wrote:
Aside from the fact that only 4 voice out of 6 would be used when paired with the Sinfonion, I think that the spherical wavetables is a great way to expand what the chords can do and is orthogonal to the Sinfonion controls.


If the SWN works for 4 voices, I don’t see why you couldn’t use all six with the Sinfonion: perhaps four with chords and the other two with the other Sinfonion channels.

obust wrote:
Do you see any potential functional conflict between SWN and Sinfonion ?


I would certainly want to verify that you can truly disable the quantizer in the SWN and operate each voice like a standalone, independent oscillator. From the documentation, it appears you can, but I’m not all that familiar with the SWN.
mdoudoroff
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)
Carl Licroy
It is not a single module but as I already owned a Pitsburgh Modular SV-1, I just bought the Double Helix after buying Instruo Harmonaig. The 4 voices sounds really well together. I patch them through 4 Manhattan Analog DTM when I want to mix different waveforms.
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
obust wrote:
I am looking into Quad VCOs to play the chords.


I'm going with the Studio Electronics Quadnic

Edit: Ah - I didn't notice I was beaten to it! wink
Mike_123
Is there a way to quantize channels 1-3 all within one octave? I like the use of chord scales, which is the Sinfonion’s focus, but I also like just working with scale tones of one octave like a typical quantizer.
Supermathi
Mike_123 wrote:
Is there a way to quantize channels 1-3 all within one octave? I like the use of chord scales, which is the Sinfonion’s focus, but I also like just working with scale tones of one octave like a typical quantizer.


Hi Mike, I'm not sure if I've completely understood your question. But the Sinfonion in the first place very much behaves like a typical quantizer. The main difference is that it has a more musical way of selecting allowed notes (based on logical scale steps rather then absolute note values). And of course it has tons of more flexibility.

I've worked with different quantizers before and read specs of many others (like Tiptop Quantizer, Penrose, Intellijel, etc.). The Sinfonion can easily do almost 100% of their features and much much more.

Restriction to quantizing everything into one single octave could be an interesting feature to implement. But it's nothing that I've seen in any of the "typical" quantizers so I might got your question wrong...
Mike_123
Supermathi wrote:
Mike_123 wrote:
Is there a way to quantize channels 1-3 all within one octave? I like the use of chord scales, which is the Sinfonion’s focus, but I also like just working with scale tones of one octave like a typical quantizer.


Hi Mike, I'm not sure if I've completely understood your question. But the Sinfonion in the first place very much behaves like a typical quantizer. The main difference is that it has a more musical way of selecting allowed notes (based on logical scale steps rather then absolute note values). And of course it has tons of more flexibility.

I've worked with different quantizers before and read specs of many others (like Tiptop Quantizer, Penrose, Intellijel, etc.). The Sinfonion can easily do almost 100% of their features and much much more.

Restriction to quantizing everything into one single octave could be an interesting feature to implement. But it's nothing that I've seen in any of the "typical" quantizers so I might got your question wrong...


Ok thanks. I was able to watch another youtube video and figure it out. Just pre-ordered this beast!

Sinfonion is a very innovative and sophisticated module! Congrats.
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Supermathi - Anymore footage of the pick and place machine working?
Supermathi
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Supermathi - Anymore footage of the pick and place machine working?


The pick and plache machine is finally up and running! ACL told me that the module will probably delivered around June or July to the retailers. Thank you all for your patience so far! we're not worthy
titanlegions
Wow that's good news, thanks for all the hard work sir applause
-S.L-
Supermathi wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Supermathi - Anymore footage of the pick and place machine working?


The pick and plache machine is finally up and running! ACL told me that the module will probably delivered around June or July to the retailers. Thank you all for your patience so far! we're not worthy


now we are talking w00t
Supermathi
... and while you are patiently waiting, here is another tune, crafted by two Sinfonions cool

[s]https://soundcloud.com/zarkuun/melodies-3[/s]
-S.L-
amazing screaming goo yo

i'm getting two as well hihi
Jaypee
I thought my needs for sequencing CV/modulating CV would be over with the recent addition of a Cirklon, but I'm not that sure...! w00t
mdoudoroff
Jaypee wrote:
I thought my needs for sequencing CV/modulating CV would be over with the recent addition of a Cirklon, but I'm not that sure...! w00t


Yeah… the argument Sinfonion makes is that quantizing at the sequencer can be too far early in the chain. If you want to carefully program everything in your Cirklon, press play, and then just sit there and drink coffee while it runs, that’s one thing…
bkbirge
How's manufacturing coming along? This still looking good for a June release?
cackland
-S.L- wrote:
amazing screaming goo yo

i'm getting two as well hihi


Assuming the will run independently or can they be chained?
-S.L-
they can be chained Master/Slave

But independently should work too, obviously hyper
cackland
Oh damn! With a system like yours, I can see why you need it.

What are you going to replace with 2 of these?
-S.L-
cackland wrote:
Oh damn! With a system like yours, I can see why you need it.

What are you going to replace with 2 of these?


i'm not replacing anything w00t I just add !
cackland
Even bigger case / more cases in time then wink
Milanski
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


I have 3x Doepfer A-110s, was gonna get a fourth to keep it analogue but at 32hp, that's simply dim. Just realised the 2hp VCO is an analogue Curtis voice and at 8hp for 4, it's pretty much a no-brianer...
-S.L-
good luck with the tunning with the tiny pots. I sold my Pico VCO for that reason, it's almost impossible to have precise tuning, so with four at the same time....
nano_granny
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


I'd like to hear the Sinfonion with the Synthesis Technology E370 particularly on the default bank B wavetable as I own one. Mathias, do you have an E370 you could hook up and give us a demo please.?
mdoudoroff
nano_granny wrote:


I'd like to hear the Sinfonion with the Synthesis Technology E370 particularly on the default bank B wavetable as I own one. Mathias, do you have an E370 you could hook up and give us a demo please.?


Me too. If ACL would ship me my Sinfonion, I’d be happy to make you that demo. Mr. Green
titanlegions
-S.L- wrote:
good luck with the tunning with the tiny pots. I sold my Pico VCO for that reason, it's almost impossible to have precise tuning, so with four at the same time....


They are much harder to accidentally knock out of tune though, I had to give up with quad STOs for that reason. I get more worried about the ribbon cable origami required for multiple 2hps next to each other.
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
I use the Pico VCO as my bass (I may add the Erica Double Bass, but I digress). I personally find that the Pico VCO isn't hard to tune if you're gentle and fine-tune it by lightly brushing against the knobs with the texture of your fingertip. However, if all 4 are right next to each other, it may be possible to accidentally knock one out of tune while tuning the others. But that's up to you and how you design your rack.

It may be unlikely that you'll want to separate your chord VCOs, but it could be easier to access the knobs. This is one reason why I'm using the Quadnic for chords - Same hp as 4 Pico VCOs, but bigger knobs and more waveforms and functionality.
cackland
titanlegions wrote:
-S.L- wrote:
good luck with the tunning with the tiny pots. I sold my Pico VCO for that reason, it's almost impossible to have precise tuning, so with four at the same time....


They are much harder to accidentally knock out of tune though, I had to give up with quad STOs for that reason. I get more worried about the ribbon cable origami required for multiple 2hps next to each other.


I find MN pots are not that stiff, hence why they are easy to knock / move. I prefer a more solid pot, holds its position much better.
Supermathi
nano_granny wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


I'd like to hear the Sinfonion with the Synthesis Technology E370 particularly on the default bank B wavetable as I own one. Mathias, do you have an E370 you could hook up and give us a demo please.?


Alas - I have none confused I just can repeat that I'm quite happy with my Doepfer A-111-4s. Tuning is really no issue here. There are really stable and track wonderfully precise. A good base for playing in just intonation. The controls are a bit fiddly, but there is not much to control once it's tuned anyway.

I feed the sums of triangle, square and sawtooth to a crossfader to I can morph around between these waveforms as I like.
mdoudoroff
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
This is one reason why I'm using the Quadnic for chords - Same hp as 4 Pico VCOs, but bigger knobs and more waveforms and functionality.


Not only that, one Quadnic costs less than two 2hp VCOs and costs 40% of one A-111-4. For chords, seems like it might be a no-brainer. It’s a bit of a strange module with abysmal marketing. The demo videos are poor and the documentation sketchy.

I’m also eyeing Chords 2 in its quad oscillator mode, but that costs $100 more.
nano_granny
Supermathi wrote:
nano_granny wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


I'd like to hear the Sinfonion with the Synthesis Technology E370 particularly on the default bank B wavetable as I own one. Mathias, do you have an E370 you could hook up and give us a demo please.?


Alas - I have none confused I just can repeat that I'm quite happy with my Doepfer A-111-4s. Tuning is really no issue here. There are really stable and track wonderfully precise. A good base for playing in just intonation. The controls are a bit fiddly, but there is not much to control once it's tuned anyway.

I feed the sums of triangle, square and sawtooth to a crossfader to I can morph around between these waveforms as I like.


Oh well, it's a shame I'm not within driving distance of you. I would have loved for you to put it through its paces. Thanks for the reply Mathias.
gummyboy
mdoudoroff wrote:

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)


This is my choice!!!!!
mdoudoroff
Supermathi wrote:
In one situation I even use an external CV for changing just the root note. This is created by a Doepfer A-173-1 micro keyboard, which is directly patched into the ROOT CV jack (http://www.doepfer.de/A1731.htm).


Supermathi, are you continuing to find the A-173-1 Micro Keyboard to be useful with Sinfonion? Have you found other use cases besides changing the root? (It sure doesn’t seem like a good tool to “play” an individual quantizer, although maybe transposition and octave offsetting, somehow?)
Supermathi
mdoudoroff wrote:
Supermathi wrote:
In one situation I even use an external CV for changing just the root note. This is created by a Doepfer A-173-1 micro keyboard, which is directly patched into the ROOT CV jack (http://www.doepfer.de/A1731.htm).


Supermathi, are you continuing to find the A-173-1 Micro Keyboard to be useful with Sinfonion? Have you found other use cases besides changing the root? (It sure doesn’t seem like a good tool to “play” an individual quantizer, although maybe transposition and octave offsetting, somehow?)


Hi,

I'm still heavily using the Micro Keyboard for changing the root note. I'm just thinking about trying out to changing the degree with it. Besides the two modes "Chords" and "Chords 2" the Sinfonion has modes like "Minor" that behave a bit different. For example in C minor if you select the second degree then the root note of the scale changes to D. If i would rearrange the scale in those modes in a way that an external CV for the degree would match the root note of the according scales then you could use the micro keyboard for changing the root note in a diatonic way.

Example: Select mode "C major". If you select D as root you would get "C dorian" instead of D major. The 5 non-scale notes would get some sensible substitutes. C# in C major could give you C#lydian or C#alt, for example. This would just be a minor tweak to these "diatonic" modes that would not harm much.

Summarized: with the micro keyboard you could then improvise diatonic chord changes very easily. Even a second micro keyboard could be handy smile
chaosick
mdoudoroff wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
This is one reason why I'm using the Quadnic for chords - Same hp as 4 Pico VCOs, but bigger knobs and more waveforms and functionality.


Not only that, one Quadnic costs less than two 2hp VCOs and costs 40% of one A-111-4. For chords, seems like it might be a no-brainer. It’s a bit of a strange module with abysmal marketing. The demo videos are poor and the documentation sketchy.

I’m also eyeing Chords 2 in its quad oscillator mode, but that costs $100 more.


Studio Electronics seems to have given up on eurorack all together. They seem content to do equally bizarrely-marketed things like re-releasing slightly modified updates of the Se-1x and boomstars at 1.5X-2x the used prices. Disappointing.
cioaudio
musicstore have delayed my delivery from June until July
danhill
cioaudio wrote:
musicstore have delayed my delivery from June until July


I ordered from Music Store, scheduled for July 13th cry . I am excited to play with the wonderful Sinfonion, it will replace my pressure points very frustrating

Modular Dan'Hill
-S.L-
at the same time nobody ever gave exact release date so don't be surprised.

if you look at Mathias videos from Superbooth, he's mentionning a potential release around july/august.
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
at the same time nobody ever gave exact release date so don't be surprised.

if you look at Mathias videos from Superbooth, he's mentionning a potential release around july/august.


Scientists recently have discovered that right in Berlin there is a vertex of deformation in the time space continuum. This means that for example a time span of 1 month could be stretched into 2 months or even more as you get nearer to the center of that nonlinearity... help
cioaudio
Supermathi wrote:
-S.L- wrote:
at the same time nobody ever gave exact release date so don't be surprised.

if you look at Mathias videos from Superbooth, he's mentionning a potential release around july/august.


Scientists recently have discovered that right in Berlin there is a vertex of deformation in the time space continuum. This means that for example a time span of 1 month could be stretched into 2 months or even more as you get nearer to the center of that nonlinearity... help


love If those scientists could use that extra time to update the power consumption on modulargrid it would be much appreciated
-S.L-
Supermathi wrote:
-S.L- wrote:
at the same time nobody ever gave exact release date so don't be surprised.

if you look at Mathias videos from Superbooth, he's mentionning a potential release around july/august.


Scientists recently have discovered that right in Berlin there is a vertex of deformation in the time space continuum. This means that for example a time span of 1 month could be stretched into 2 months or even more as you get nearer to the center of that nonlinearity... help


ok see you in October Sinfonion MY ASS IS BLEEDING
Groove_Addict
Supermathi wrote:
nano_granny wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


I'd like to hear the Sinfonion with the Synthesis Technology E370 particularly on the default bank B wavetable as I own one. Mathias, do you have an E370 you could hook up and give us a demo please.?


Alas - I have none confused I just can repeat that I'm quite happy with my Doepfer A-111-4s. Tuning is really no issue here. There are really stable and track wonderfully precise. A good base for playing in just intonation. The controls are a bit fiddly, but there is not much to control once it's tuned anyway.

I feed the sums of triangle, square and sawtooth to a crossfader to I can morph around between these waveforms as I like.



I’m wondering what do you use to crossfade and what filters goes great with it ?
f33d
how does the sinfonion interpret negative voltage at the "quantization-inputs". I am thinking about a CV-mixer pre Sinfonion Quantization Inputs & if it should be able to invert, but if all relevant octaves are in the positive range I would only need attenuating mixers (not attenuverting).
I found in the manual that most CV-ins can deal with -10/+10 & that in the first example one could put a LFO into the quantization-inputs, but what sense does it make of, say -9V in terms of octave.
I probably missed it in the manual.
Thanks!
(btw already pre-ordered also) cool
Supermathi
f33d wrote:
how does the sinfonion interpret negative voltage at the "quantization-inputs". I am thinking about a CV-mixer pre Sinfonion Quantization Inputs & if it should be able to invert, but if all relevant octaves are in the positive range I would only need attenuating mixers (not attenuverting).
I found in the manual that most CV-ins can deal with -10/+10 & that in the first example one could put a LFO into the quantization-inputs, but what sense does it make of, say -9V in terms of octave.
I probably missed it in the manual.
Thanks!
(btw already pre-ordered also) cool


Negative CVs are handled as they should, I guess. If you send -2V for example then the output roughly will also be -2V -- which is of course very low for a normal VCO.

What you would do in such a case is using the octave switch for transposing up a few octaves and of course the builting per-channel attenuator that can be set to the fixed ratios of 1:1 (normal), 1:2, 1:3 and 1:5. The last setting basically means 5V per octave. So sending in an LFO that swings between -5V and +5V will result in a range of two octaves (from -1V to +1V). Switch up the octave by one or two and you are in very musical range.
monads
-S.L- wrote:
Supermathi wrote:
-S.L- wrote:
at the same time nobody ever gave exact release date so don't be surprised.

if you look at Mathias videos from Superbooth, he's mentionning a potential release around july/august.


Scientists recently have discovered that right in Berlin there is a vertex of deformation in the time space continuum. This means that for example a time span of 1 month could be stretched into 2 months or even more as you get nearer to the center of that nonlinearity... help


ok see you in October Sinfonion MY ASS IS BLEEDING


You're probably correct regarding Dead Banana
Supermathi
Hey guys,

for a change here is some good news: The first Sinfonion of the series production has been built - right in Berlin on ACL's brand new pick & place machine and reflow oven:



Music by Stefan Lewin from ACL. Please enjoy...
mdoudoroff
Hurray!

How many minutes per unit on the machine?
batch
Woohoo! Can’t wait!
Milanski
It's been a long and painful wait but seeing this video has got me all excited!!
nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana!
monads
That's a pretty sweet video!!! Thanks Mathias!
SOPiiAC
If I preorder late in the game, should I expect to get one in the first batch? Thx
Supermathi
SOPiiAC wrote:
If I preorder late in the game, should I expect to get one in the first batch? Thx


Hi,

the first batch will be 200. My last information was that retails already have preordered way beyond 100....
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Supermathi
Thanks for the update on Instagram. Super exciting! thumbs up
nano_granny
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Supermathi
Thanks for the update on Instagram. Super exciting! thumbs up


I don't do Facebook, what's the update please?
mdoudoroff
nano_granny wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Supermathi
Thanks for the update on Instagram. Super exciting! thumbs up


I don't do Facebook, what's the update please?


nano_granny
mdoudoroff wrote:
nano_granny wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Supermathi
Thanks for the update on Instagram. Super exciting! thumbs up


I don't do Facebook, what's the update please?




Much appreciated Martin, I fell out of love at first after the design change from Instruo to ACL, fickle I know, but time healed and just waiting for them to arrive in the UK.

Mathias, I'd also like to buy one of the Instruo prototypes if one was available? woah
Mr. Roboto
I‘m soo excited!

I already ordered and also payed (yes. I know: stupid me) a few weeks ago.
Don‘t have a problem with that as these guys are super-serious and super-reliable (had some support contact with them).

These guys are great and I‘m eagerly awaiting my first/batch Sinfonion Module.
f33d
I am getting ready for the Sinfonion. w00t
My plan is to play sampled, acoustic instruments with the Assimil8or and Sinfonion. I am wondering about the note of the sampled instrument, so that it fits the Sinfonion. Should I put a simple C3 or C4-sample into the sampler and that's it? Or I am missing something?
nanners
qual
f33d wrote:
I am getting ready for the Sinfonion. w00t
My plan is to play sampled, acoustic instruments with the Assimil8or and Sinfonion. I am wondering about the note of the sampled instrument, so that it fits the Sinfonion. Should I put a simple C3 or C4-sample into the sampler and that's it? Or I am missing something?
nanners


Based on 5.4 Tuning Mode section of the manual it looks like 0V from the output internally maps to C2, so loading in samples tuned to C should be fine for relative pitches and go for C2 if you want a match in absolute pitch.
f33d
thanks qual! thumbs up yeah, I saw it also in the manual but was not sure, thought of it kind of low, but there is probably a reason why C2.
"absolute" means that it would match all the visual representation, e.g. what octave etc?
qual
f33d wrote:
thanks qual! thumbs up yeah, I saw it also in the manual but was not sure, thought of it kind of low, but there is probably a reason why C2.
"absolute" means that it would match all the visual representation, e.g. what octave etc?


Yeah I mean matching octave. So if you put in a sample of a sine wave at 65.406 hz (C2) then play it with the Sinfonion output that corresponds to C2 it will output 0 volts and thus still be C2. If you loaded a sample of a sine wave at 261.626 hz (C4) then when the Sinfonion thinks it it outputting C2 (0 volts) your sample would still be playing at C4.

This is not necessarily a good or bad thing either way.

The manual also mentions:
In favour of the best possible accuracy the output range is limited to the musically
interesting range of -2 V to +8 V (10 octaves). We found this asymmetry to be most useful.

Perhaps some VCOs deal better with positive voltages rather than negative, or it may just be the inherent factors in the DAC and opamp part choice works best in this range.
Supermathi
qual wrote:

The manual also mentions:
In favour of the best possible accuracy the output range is limited to the musically
interesting range of -2 V to +8 V (10 octaves). We found this asymmetry to be most useful.

Perhaps some VCOs deal better with positive voltages rather than negative, or it may just be the inherent factors in the DAC and opamp part choice works best in this range.


Hi, It's really just because of musical reasons. Most oscillators are already very low at 0V. Feeding them -10V would make them 1024 times slower - which would be totally useless. For that and other reasons also sequencers tend to output just positive values. So most modules that accept V/Oct really expect rather positve values. We just added -2V to have some negative head room.

The DAC itself could be scaled from -10 to +10 without problems. But limitting it to -2 to +8 doubles the precision! And precision is always something you should go for wink
monads
It's got to be getting close to release soon now hyper
denoise
I'm currently beta testing the Sinfonion and I just uploaded a video to my channel:



I'm enyoing the Sinfonion a lot, and I'm planing to upload more videos soon!
mdoudoroff
Love it, denoise!!! applause
SOPiiAC
I just pre-ordered mine through DM and they said it was going to be shipping at the end of the month! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Sanys
thx for the video denoise
BlinkyLights
denoise wrote:
I'm currently beta testing the Sinfonion and I just uploaded a video to my channel:



I'm enyoing the Sinfonion a lot, and I'm planing to upload more videos soon!


Love it.
gringostar
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


Would add MI Edges to this list.
Supermathi
Hey guys,

ACL have delivered the first 90 pieces to the distributor a coupld of days ago! Could someone of you make a post as soon as she/he receives her/his Sinfonion from your local dealer?

Meanwhile here is a litte funny video how I setup my system - with a music made with two Sinfonions, of course. And a real drummer!

mdoudoroff
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
-S.L-
Well ! Since I have been playing with the prototype for about 10 days now, I can only say that there is a time before and after having a Sinfonion. hyper

You just can never make music without it anymore on a modular system hihi

My worries was too deep functions and wasting time diving into menus.
It is not the case. It's actually fairly straight forward, and more flexible than I thought at first, the use of the extra ins/outs is amazing.

I'll get a second one at some point. I have a pretty solid collection of quantizers, which i'm about to sell, at least half of them. (keeping the uScale as it's pretty unique)

The deepest I got so far is using channel 1 for bass, channel 2 for lead (using the same trick as Mathias with the Doepfer controller, but you can use any controler like a Planar or even an offset/attenuator to manually make nice leads), chords and arpegiator. I can'teven think what to do with the channel 3 yet lol


Also, I have never been a fan of arpegiators in general, but here it is SO MUCH FUN to use, and using "broken" clock on the enveloppes is also great to have less straight pattern.

I did some test with different VCO's than we could hear from Mathias's demos so far, like Rings or Nebulae, also using the chords with 4 completely different characters VCO (one would be wavetable, one a normal triangle, one a digital sounding etc...), have really cool sounding results. It's deep but very simple to use at the same time w00t

Built quality is solid, knobs absolutely not wobbly.

That module is a complete game changer, that you use it live or just in the studio. If you are into melodic stuff, it is a must have if you ask me.



applause
danishchairs
Supermathi wrote:
... Meanwhile here is a litte funny video how I setup my system - with a music made with two Sinfonions, of course. And a real drummer!

Fun video, fabulous soundtrack, great choice of a Swopper as your work chair/stool! thumbs up
cackland
-S.L- wrote:

You just can never make music without it anymore on a modular system hihi


I wouldn't agree with this, as there is many people who have made 'music' with their module prior to the instantiation of this module, including yourself wink

However I can appreciate the ease of ability this module would have on the impact of making music.

Nice video Supermathi, thank you

Look forward to seeing more videos on it.
-S.L-
well of course you can always (and I will) make music without it.

but whenever complex melodies, transposition and other fancy stuff, the struggle was real, it's always possible to archive complicated results, using sequential switch, octave modules, multiple quantizers and whatever other modules.

and it's actually really fun and interresting to use them, I have learned a lot with it.

But the Sinfonion, the struggle is gone, you can focuson music first and have fun immediatly rather than spender quite some times to get (as pleasant) result.

There is no good or bad way. But I'm loving that module love
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
Well ! Since I have been playing with the prototype for about 10 days now, I can only say that there is a time before and after having a Sinfonion. hyper

You just can never make music without it anymore on a modular system hihi

My worries was too deep functions and wasting time diving into menus.
It is not the case. It's actually fairly straight forward, and more flexible than I thought at first, the use of the extra ins/outs is amazing.

I'll get a second one at some point. I have a pretty solid collection of quantizers, which i'm about to sell, at least half of them. (keeping the uScale as it's pretty unique)

The deepest I got so far is using channel 1 for bass, channel 2 for lead (using the same trick as Mathias with the Doepfer controller, but you can use any controler like a Planar or even an offset/attenuator to manually make nice leads), chords and arpegiator. I can'teven think what to do with the channel 3 yet lol


Also, I have never been a fan of arpegiators in general, but here it is SO MUCH FUN to use, and using "broken" clock on the enveloppes is also great to have less straight pattern.

I did some test with different VCO's than we could hear from Mathias's demos so far, like Rings or Nebulae, also using the chords with 4 completely different characters VCO (one would be wavetable, one a normal triangle, one a digital sounding etc...), have really cool sounding results. It's deep but very simple to use at the same time w00t

Built quality is solid, knobs absolutely not wobbly.

That module is a complete game changer, that you use it live or just in the studio. If you are into melodic stuff, it is a must have if you ask me.

applause


Hey S.L,

thanks a lot for this really nice and motivating post! I wish you much fun with the module and I guess a lot of us are looking forward to your first productions that make use of it eek!
cackland
I for one am.
Milanski
gringostar wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


Would add MI Edges to this list.


I've gone for the Recovery Effects Jupiter Spirit Quad VCO (analogue). Yet to test it so will report back when I've tested it with my Sinfonion due Friday (or Monday)!! I'm so excited (I just can't hide it, I'm about to lose control and I think I like it, ahoo hoo!!). Rockin' Banana!
psv
Supermathi wrote:
Hey guys,

ACL have delivered the first 90 pieces to the distributor a coupld of days ago! Could someone of you make a post as soon as she/he receives her/his Sinfonion from your local dealer?


I received my Sinfonion from Schneidersladen today.
Looks great, powers up fine. Very much looking forward to dive into using it!
Mr. Roboto
Really, you did? eek!

All shops in Germany (even Schneiders Laden) are noting them as „not in stock (yet)“.
Maybe it‘s because they are currently delivering all pre-ordered modules first and are waiting for the next delivery from ACL.
But then I ask myself why I did not get any notice from Musicstore regarding the delivery as I have ordered (and payed!) the module month ago, right after the Superbooth ’19.

Hmm, a little bit disappointing. Don‘t know where the issue is: ACL, Musicstore, DHL. confused

Anyway: whoever receives his module this WE, please let us know about your experience. hyper
cioaudio
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Really, you did? eek!

I have ordered (and payed!) the module month ago, right after the Superbooth ’19.

Hmm, a little bit disappointing. Don‘t know where the issue is: ACL, Musicstore, DHL. confused

Anyway: whoever receives his module this WE, please let us know about your experience. hyper


For what it's worth, I ordered from musicstore at the end of March, no firm delivery date yet, they just guesstimate a month ahead each time the last guesstimate is passed.
2disbetter
gringostar wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Some potential high density oscillator options with at least four voices.

1010music Synthbox (26hp, four full voices)

Qu-bit Chord 2 (14 hp, four independent drones in one particular operation mode)

Blue Lantern Poly Phobos (24 hp, four independent drones)

Flame 4vox (29 hp, four independent drones)

Flame VCDO-4 (prototype, 12 hp, four independent drones)

Doepfer A-111-4 (18 hp, four independent drones)

Studio Elecronics Quadnic (12 hp, four independent drones)

Synthesis Technology E370 (54 HP, four independent drones)

4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator (26 hp, six drones mixed to one stereo output)

Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core w/Expander (20 hp, four drones mixed to one output)


Would add MI Edges to this list.


I would add the SSP. It can run over 64 individual voices of varying individual oscillator counts per voice AND has the inputs to address many of them via the Sinfonion. I suppose with the addition of sampling and sample playback this number of voices goes closer to infinite. As a matter of fact the SSP with the Sinfonion just has me thinking about an eurorack orchestra. Most excellent.

I also just wanted to mention that since this modules inception over at Instruo I've been very interested in it. I think the potential of a module like this for musicians cannot be overstated. I love the aesthetic of the front panel as well.
psv
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Really, you did? eek!


Yes. I had been on the w-list at Schneiders for a while though.
Curently fooling around without reading the manual. This thing is great!!


StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Mr. Roboto wrote:

But then I ask myself why I did not get any notice from Musicstore regarding the delivery as I have ordered (and payed!) the module month ago, right after the Superbooth ’19.


I preordered via perfect circuit in January. I'm not sure I should expect it to be delivered from this new batch. Maybe the next one. I'm very excited, but not getting my hopes up too much
batch
At least we know there is at least one officially shipped out. I preordered from Detroit Modular back in January so fingers crossed wil get some good news soon.
mdoudoroff
I inquired with PC, and this was their yesterday evening:

We do not have accurate ETA from them or tracking quite yet. We've heard they are starting to release them, so we would like to think we are close to receiving our order.
jdee
My first 3 ever Eurorack modules! nanners

Not got time to power it up now, but can’t wait to hear what these bad boys sound like later!

[/img]
Supermathi
Hey guys,

I'm not involved in any details of the distribution, but as far as I know Schneidersladen and Alex4 work together closely and are also associated with each other. I mean, Andreas Schneider - the founder of Schneidersladen - is CEO at Alex4. And both are located in Berlin. And Alex4 is the sole distributor ACL delivers to. Alex4 then ships to all the stores world wide (as I've understood it).

So it should be no surprise that Schneidersladen is able to delier a couple of days before the other retailers.

Also ACL is currently in the process of producing a second batch. So I hope your waiting has an end soon Guinness ftw!

Thank you all for you patience and post your first Sinfonion tunes here Rockin' Banana!
Keltie
#0081 reporting for duty suh!

Plumbed in and working. Only time for a brief play so far buuuut.......

Game changing is an overused and often inaccurate description of a new module.

In this case, fully deserved.

E370 on chords, E352 on channel 1, plaits and braids on everything else.

something wonderful
Keltie
jdee wrote:
My first 3 ever Eurorack modules! nanners

Not got time to power it up now, but can’t wait to hear what these bad boys sound like later!

[/img]


That’s.... an unusual start.

Which oscillators are you going with to plug those Sinfonions into?
2disbetter
Keltie wrote:


That’s.... an unusual start.

Which oscillators are you going with to plug those Sinfonions into?


Was my initial thought as well. I don't believe there is a right or wrong way to start mind you, but I'm interested about the game plan here.
lisa
Keltie wrote:
jdee wrote:
My first 3 ever Eurorack modules! nanners

Not got time to power it up now, but can’t wait to hear what these bad boys sound like later!

[/img]


That’s.... an unusual start.

Quite clearly a joke, no? wink
jdee
lisa wrote:
Keltie wrote:


That’s.... an unusual start.

Quite clearly a joke, no? wink



smile

Taking me forever to reorganise my rig to make the most of the Sinfonions, and got bored half way thru! Still not used them yet. Going to be another few hours yet.


2disbetter
jdee wrote:
lisa wrote:

Quite clearly a joke, no? wink



smile

Taking me forever to reorganise my rig to make the most of the Sinfonions, and got bored half way thru! Still not used them yet. Going to be another few hours yet.




eek! When you get through reorganizing I think you might have a hard time stopping to play it. SlayerBadger!
Supermathi
2disbetter wrote:
Keltie wrote:


That’s.... an unusual start.

Which oscillators are you going with to plug those Sinfonions into?


Was my initial thought as well. I don't believe there is a right or wrong way to start mind you, but I'm interested about the game plan here.


Hey man - you can never have too many Sinfonions cool

But seriously: If you really want to build a big harmony-centred system why not start thinking about how to control pitch information first? Just from my experiance in order to fully exhaust a Sinfonion with old-fashioned analog voices you should more or less plan one Doepfer monster P9 case eek!
Keltie
jdee wrote:
lisa wrote:
Keltie wrote:


That’s.... an unusual start.

Quite clearly a joke, no? wink



smile

Taking me forever to reorganise my rig to make the most of the Sinfonions, and got bored half way thru! Still not used them yet. Going to be another few hours yet.




Ha! Well played applause
Milanski
My setup looks tiny compared, but having much fun on day one with this...thanks Matthias!

I must be a complete div though as I can't seem to successfully upload a picture :(

(Somewhat irrelevant?) point to note: the screw holes are exactly the same size as Befaco knuries, so you have to screw them through the panel first before they reach the nuts. Not a big deal, but an extra half millimetre would give proper clearance.
-S.L-
Milanski wrote:



(Somewhat irrelevant?) point to note: the screw holes are exactly the same size as Befaco knuries, so you have to screw them through the panel first before they reach the nuts. Not a big deal, but an extra half millimetre would give proper clearance.


I had the exact same issue, it was fairly difficult to screw my Sinfonion in my system,to a point where I thought I had a faulty prototype. I don't have any other ACL modules (yet) but if they are all like this, they are definitely not friends with the knurlies screw d'oh!
monads
mdoudoroff wrote:
I inquired with PC, and this was their yesterday evening:

We do not have accurate ETA from them or tracking quite yet. We've heard they are starting to release them, so we would like to think we are close to receiving our order.


PC was I believe one of the first to have the pre-order page available followed by DM. I'm part of the PC January pre-order club.
-S.L-
jdee wrote:
My first 3 ever Eurorack modules! nanners

Not got time to power it up now, but can’t wait to hear what these bad boys sound like later!

[/img]


that moment you realize Sinfonion doesnt produce any sound hihi
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
jdee wrote:
My first 3 ever Eurorack modules! nanners

Not got time to power it up now, but can’t wait to hear what these bad boys sound like later!

[/img]


that moment you realize Sinfonion doesnt produce any sound hihi


Hm. Depends on an experiment. I'm sure that with some tricky cross-patch you should be able to produce interesting audio-rate results smile The Sinfonion's internal processing loop runs at approximately 1200 Hz, so this should be possible Mr. Green
Supermathi
jdee wrote:
lisa wrote:
Keltie wrote:


That’s.... an unusual start.

Quite clearly a joke, no? wink



smile

Taking me forever to reorganise my rig to make the most of the Sinfonions, and got bored half way thru! Still not used them yet. Going to be another few hours yet.




Hi Jdee, nice that you got me cool

By the way: when you plan your system around a Sinfonion (or even two) there are several ways of arranging them. I have tried several styles. Most important of all is to keep the Sinfonion's "playing area" free of cables. This is easiest ensured if the module is the right most in your case. This is also optimal if you use your right hand for playing. If you have two you might consider placing one below the other.
rsillsley
Hi @Supermathi,

i have a Sinfonium on its way. Currently i use Cirkon for all (except Metropolis) my modular sequencing (CVIO + 3 x DMUX's).

Out of interest how are you pairing yours with the Sinfonium. Are you turning off all Cirkon FTS and then feeding Cirklon into Sinfonium and it does all the quantisation? Or Setting scale etc on both :-)

Whats your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance, Russell
jdee
rsillsley wrote:
Hi @Supermathi,

i have a Sinfonium on its way. Currently i use Cirkon for all (except Metropolis) my modular sequencing (CVIO + 3 x DMUX's).

Out of interest how are you pairing yours with the Sinfonium. Are you turning off all Cirkon FTS and then feeding Cirklon into Sinfonium and it does all the quantisation? Or Setting scale etc on both :-)

Whats your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance, Russell


Thats how I'm doing it. Not much sense in keeping FTS switched on. The Sinfonions seem to work great with the Cirklon. Couldnt be happier.
Milanski
Playing around with the sequencer today, and finding myself yearning for an option to program a mute for all sections (or ideally selectable ones, say for a beat or so at the end of a bar) to lead in to a drop.

Guess that has to be done with nimble fingers at the mixer stage, right? Could that be a candidate for a firmware upgrade perhaps?
Supermathi
jdee wrote:
rsillsley wrote:
Hi @Supermathi,

i have a Sinfonium on its way. Currently i use Cirkon for all (except Metropolis) my modular sequencing (CVIO + 3 x DMUX's).

Out of interest how are you pairing yours with the Sinfonium. Are you turning off all Cirkon FTS and then feeding Cirklon into Sinfonium and it does all the quantisation? Or Setting scale etc on both :-)

Whats your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance, Russell


Thats how I'm doing it. Not much sense in keeping FTS switched on. The Sinfonions seem to work great with the Cirklon. Couldnt be happier.


Yes. That's also my opinion. For me it does not make sense first quantize in the Cirklon (FTS = force to scale = essentially quantizing) and then requantize again. The can lead to unneccessary reduction of possible scale notes.

As a matter of fact when I program melodies in my Cirklon (or any other sequencer) I rather create melody "sketches" that do not care about exact semitones but are always used as input material for the Sinfonions' quantizer.
Supermathi
Milanski wrote:
Playing around with the sequencer today, and finding myself yearning for an option to program a mute for all sections (or ideally selectable ones, say for a beat or so at the end of a bar) to lead in to a drop.

Guess that has to be done with nimble fingers at the mixer stage, right? Could that be a candidate for a firmware upgrade perhaps?


Muting is something the Sinfonion can never do, alas. Mute needs to be put into the audio path. The Sinfonions outputs just pitch information. And it can never stop to do so. It could output zero volts of course. But that is no mute but would switch the attached voice to a very low C instead.
Milanski
Supermathi wrote:
Milanski wrote:
Playing around with the sequencer today, and finding myself yearning for an option to program a mute for all sections (or ideally selectable ones, say for a beat or so at the end of a bar) to lead in to a drop.

Guess that has to be done with nimble fingers at the mixer stage, right? Could that be a candidate for a firmware upgrade perhaps?


Muting is something the Sinfonion can never do, alas. Mute needs to be put into the audio path. The Sinfonions outputs just pitch information. And it can never stop to do so. It could output zero volts of course. But that is no mute but would switch the attached voice to a very low C instead.


That's a real shame as live muting is a bit of a finger faff, but thanks for clarifying. It doesn't of course take anything away from the brilliance of the module...!
Clumsy
Milanski wrote:
Supermathi wrote:
Milanski wrote:
Playing around with the sequencer today, and finding myself yearning for an option to program a mute for all sections (or ideally selectable ones, say for a beat or so at the end of a bar) to lead in to a drop.

Guess that has to be done with nimble fingers at the mixer stage, right? Could that be a candidate for a firmware upgrade perhaps?


Muting is something the Sinfonion can never do, alas. Mute needs to be put into the audio path. The Sinfonions outputs just pitch information. And it can never stop to do so. It could output zero volts of course. But that is no mute but would switch the attached voice to a very low C instead.


That's a real shame as live muting is a bit of a finger faff, but thanks for clarifying. It doesn't of course take anything away from the brilliance of the module...!

Maybe you could use one of the programmable gates to shut down a VCA.
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Milanski wrote:

That's a real shame as live muting is a bit of a finger faff, but thanks for clarifying. It doesn't of course take anything away from the brilliance of the module...!


If you want to mute, use a muting module.
DivKid Mutes is an option, or if you want to switch from the Sinfonion quantized output to the original pitch, you could use an Erica Synth Pico Switch module. I don't mean to sound rude, but the point of modular is to use the proper modules to suit your needs, not to expect one module to do everything. Sinfonion does tons of stuff, but I wouldn't expect it to take over the function of other modules which have a different purpose.
Supermathi
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Milanski wrote:

That's a real shame as live muting is a bit of a finger faff, but thanks for clarifying. It doesn't of course take anything away from the brilliance of the module...!


If you want to mute, use a muting module.
DivKid Mutes is an option, or if you want to switch from the Sinfonion quantized output to the original pitch, you could use an Erica Synth Pico Switch module.


Switching from the quantized output back to the original pitch is indeed a feature that the Sinfonion already supports! It is qualled "Bypass" and can be activated separately per channel. You can even choose between soft bypass (where transposition and some other basic operations are still active) and true bypass.

Using external switches for bypassing a quantizer needs lots of cables and can lead to other problems as well - such as pitch inaccurracies if the switches are not purely mechanical. All electronic switches introduce voltage offsets. Switches that are designed for audio / triggers sometimes have very large offsets and poor output drivers (with too high impedance).
Milanski
Supermathi wrote:
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
Milanski wrote:

That's a real shame as live muting is a bit of a finger faff, but thanks for clarifying. It doesn't of course take anything away from the brilliance of the module...!


If you want to mute, use a muting module.
DivKid Mutes is an option, or if you want to switch from the Sinfonion quantized output to the original pitch, you could use an Erica Synth Pico Switch module.


Switching from the quantized output back to the original pitch is indeed a feature that the Sinfonion already supports! It is qualled "Bypass" and can be activated separately per channel. You can even choose between soft bypass (where transposition and some other basic operations are still active) and true bypass.

Using external switches for bypassing a quantizer needs lots of cables and can lead to other problems as well - such as pitch inaccurracies if the switches are not purely mechanical. All electronic switches introduce voltage offsets. Switches that are designed for audio / triggers sometimes have very large offsets and poor output drivers (with too high impedance).


Bypassing the quatisation is not my intention, it is physically to mute the audio at specific points in the sequence, but I do understand why this is not possible via the Sinfonion.
I have a Befaco Hexmix that allows me to mute channels in the same way as Divkid's Mutes quite well, but obviously one has to do it in real time and I refer back to my 'finger faff' terminology where muting the correct channels and flicking them back on, all at the same time is quite literally that - a faff and therefore often not executed precisely enough.
mdoudoroff
Milanski wrote:

I have a Befaco Hexmix that allows me to mute channels in the same way as Divkid's Mutes quite well, but obviously one has to do it in real time and I refer back to my 'finger faff' terminology where muting the correct channels and flicking them back on, all at the same time is quite literally that - a faff and therefore often not executed precisely enough.


I’ve generally found that it’s better to mute triggers and gates upstream—stop the thing that causes the audio event—rather than mute audio downstream. Cleaner results.
HBCoffin
mdoudoroff wrote:
Milanski wrote:

I have a Befaco Hexmix that allows me to mute channels in the same way as Divkid's Mutes quite well, but obviously one has to do it in real time and I refer back to my 'finger faff' terminology where muting the correct channels and flicking them back on, all at the same time is quite literally that - a faff and therefore often not executed precisely enough.


I’ve generally found that it’s better to mute triggers and gates upstream—stop the thing that causes the audio event—rather than mute audio downstream. Cleaner results.


This exactly. Muting the audio might not be enough to stop the next note from playing for a brief moment and being heard just before cutoff.

One solution would be to run your triggers or gates through a VCA and use an alternative gate signal to allow those desired to pass through to the Sinfonion.
mdoudoroff
HBCoffin wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
I’ve generally found that it’s better to mute triggers and gates upstream—stop the thing that causes the audio event—rather than mute audio downstream. Cleaner results.


This exactly. Muting the audio might not be enough to stop the next note from playing for a brief moment and being heard just before cutoff.

One solution would be to run your triggers or gates through a VCA and use an alternative gate signal to allow those desired to pass through to the Sinfonion.


Yes, but everyone please understand that notes do not “pass through to the Sinfonion”. Sinfonion is a quantizer. Quantizers emit constant (pitch) voltages and know nothing about note events. Your note events are handled by a parallel part of your patch.



That said, the Sinfonion does accept triggers and gates for clocking or otherwise controlling the Sinfonion’s behavior, and those you might want to mute under various circumstances.
BlackDoors
HBCoffin wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Milanski wrote:

I have a Befaco Hexmix that allows me to mute channels in the same way as Divkid's Mutes quite well, but obviously one has to do it in real time and I refer back to my 'finger faff' terminology where muting the correct channels and flicking them back on, all at the same time is quite literally that - a faff and therefore often not executed precisely enough.


I’ve generally found that it’s better to mute triggers and gates upstream—stop the thing that causes the audio event—rather than mute audio downstream. Cleaner results.


This exactly. Muting the audio might not be enough to stop the next note from playing for a brief moment and being heard just before cutoff.

One solution would be to run your triggers or gates through a VCA and use an alternative gate signal to allow those desired to pass through to the Sinfonion.


All this^ I like to use Muton for this purpose, in fact it works well to mute audio signals , gates and triggers without introducing audio clicks - or false triggers being introduced.

I've found that some manual trigger switches can trigger a sensitive module and make a drum sound when I am trying to mute it. Annoying!

Anyway back to Sinfonion, I have had mine since the weekend and while I am just digging in, first impressions are that it's fantastic.

John
Milanski
mdoudoroff wrote:
HBCoffin wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
I’ve generally found that it’s better to mute triggers and gates upstream—stop the thing that causes the audio event—rather than mute audio downstream. Cleaner results.


This exactly. Muting the audio might not be enough to stop the next note from playing for a brief moment and being heard just before cutoff.

One solution would be to run your triggers or gates through a VCA and use an alternative gate signal to allow those desired to pass through to the Sinfonion.


Yes, but everyone please understand that notes do not “pass through to the Sinfonion”. Sinfonion is a quantizer. Quantizers emit constant (pitch) voltages and know nothing about note events. Your note events are handled by a parallel part of your patch.



That said, the Sinfonion does accept triggers and gates for clocking or otherwise controlling the Sinfonion’s behavior, and those you might want to mute under various circumstances.


My thought process was moving in this direction, so thanks for the clarification. DivKid's Mutes would probably still let a partial signal through due to the vactrols so I will experiment with the Mutamix (which previously produced clicks when attempting to mute audio and hence my move to the Hexmix).
Supermathi
Milanski wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
HBCoffin wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
I’ve generally found that it’s better to mute triggers and gates upstream—stop the thing that causes the audio event—rather than mute audio downstream. Cleaner results.


This exactly. Muting the audio might not be enough to stop the next note from playing for a brief moment and being heard just before cutoff.

One solution would be to run your triggers or gates through a VCA and use an alternative gate signal to allow those desired to pass through to the Sinfonion.


Yes, but everyone please understand that notes do not “pass through to the Sinfonion”. Sinfonion is a quantizer. Quantizers emit constant (pitch) voltages and know nothing about note events. Your note events are handled by a parallel part of your patch.



That said, the Sinfonion does accept triggers and gates for clocking or otherwise controlling the Sinfonion’s behavior, and those you might want to mute under various circumstances.


My thought process was moving in this direction, so thanks for the clarification. DivKid's Mutes would probably still let a partial signal through due to the vactrols so I will experiment with the Mutamix (which previously produced clicks when attempting to mute audio and hence my move to the Hexmix).


I agree that switching the gates yields the best results. And in that case you also have no problems with clicks or stuff. Why not using very simple mechanical switches like the new Doepfer "A-182-2 Quad Switches"? Bare metal (literally!) No power neccessary. Absolutely no voltage offset or attenuation or other funny stuff that can happen. And just 60 bucks and 4 HP nanners
Milanski
Supermathi wrote:


I agree that switching the gates yields the best results. And in that case you also have no problems with clicks or stuff. Why not using very simple mechanical switches like the new Doepfer "A-182-2 Quad Switches"? Bare metal (literally!) No power neccessary. Absolutely no voltage offset or attenuation or other funny stuff that can happen. And just 60 bucks and 4 HP nanners


That's a great suggestion, thanks. I'll see how I get on with the Mutamix and if I find I need it for other duties in a patch, then I might well give the Doepfer a whirl. **thumbs up**
Supermathi
Milanski wrote:
Supermathi wrote:


I agree that switching the gates yields the best results. And in that case you also have no problems with clicks or stuff. Why not using very simple mechanical switches like the new Doepfer "A-182-2 Quad Switches"? Bare metal (literally!) No power neccessary. Absolutely no voltage offset or attenuation or other funny stuff that can happen. And just 60 bucks and 4 HP nanners


That's a great suggestion, thanks. I'll see how I get on with the Mutamix and if I find I need it for other duties in a patch, then I might well give the Doepfer a whirl. **thumbs up**


Hey, and don't forget that Dieter Doepfer is not only the nicest guy in the modular scene. He is also the one who invented and started Eurorack! And his products are underestimated most times. Just because his modules don't have such fancy and fuzzy designs as MakeNoice etc. does not mean that they are boring! Furthermore many Doepfer modules are really unique and solve problems that nobody else does, such as his multicore connections and the high precision quad VCO! nanners
meatbeatz
I just wanted to say I love this module. Congratulations Mathias on a superb design! It's such a pleasure to use. I'll be back with some video!
titanlegions
Supermathi wrote:

Hey, and don't forget that Dieter Doepfer is not only the nicest guy in the modular scene. He is also the one who invented and started Eurorack! And his products are underestimated most times. Just because his modules don't have such fancy and fuzzy designs as MakeNoice etc. does not mean that they are boring! Furthermore many Doepfer modules are really unique and solve problems that nobody else does, such as his multicore connections and the high precision quad VCO! nanners


Definitely true, very easy to overlook. I have just ordered some Doepfer monster cases to replace my crazy untransportable towers and I can't believe I didn't consider it before. It was seeing Supermathi's video on setting up his rig that convinced me.

In other news finally got my dual Sinfonions going and it's like a dream come true. When the new cases come and everything gets settled into the new arrangement, personally speaking it's going to be a new era for me SlayerBadger!
Mr. Roboto
Strange, it seems that people all around the world got their Module except people in Germany who ordered and payed month ago. This is even more strange as ACL is a german company.

Any people here living in Germany who already received their module from a german shop?

confused
mdoudoroff
Mr. Roboto, to my knowledge, zero Sinfonions have been shipped to the US to-date, and some of us paid for it back in January.

I’m not complaining about it (yet) because I know that Europeans often have to wait for modules from the US.
Mr. Roboto
Ah, ok. My understanding from a few posts here was that people already received their Sinfonion from US and Australian shops.
So seems that I understood it wrong.
mdoudoroff
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Ah, ok. My understanding from a few posts here was that people already received their Sinfonion from US and Australian shops.
So seems that I understood it wrong.


A smattering of customers were approached for and received pre-release units for some last-minute QA testing.
Supermathi
titanlegions wrote:
Supermathi wrote:

Hey, and don't forget that Dieter Doepfer is not only the nicest guy in the modular scene. He is also the one who invented and started Eurorack! And his products are underestimated most times. Just because his modules don't have such fancy and fuzzy designs as MakeNoice etc. does not mean that they are boring! Furthermore many Doepfer modules are really unique and solve problems that nobody else does, such as his multicore connections and the high precision quad VCO! nanners


Definitely true, very easy to overlook. I have just ordered some Doepfer monster cases to replace my crazy untransportable towers and I can't believe I didn't consider it before. It was seeing Supermathi's video on setting up his rig that convinced me.

In other news finally got my dual Sinfonions going and it's like a dream come true. When the new cases come and everything gets settled into the new arrangement, personally speaking it's going to be a new era for me SlayerBadger!


Thanks for your nice comment on the Sinfonion smile

By the way: you should definitley go for a couple of A-108-9 (Doepfer Multicore connections). This make inter-case connections super easy and fast and allows you travelling prepatched.
titanlegions
Supermathi wrote:


Thanks for your nice comment on the Sinfonion smile


The thanks should all be with you good sir — for the concept and design but mostly for the effort of seeing this through all the way to production. Not a small feat at all. Many thanks we're not worthy

Supermathi wrote:


By the way: you should definitley go for a couple of A-108-9 (Doepfer Multicore connections). This make inter-case connections super easy and fast and allows you travelling prepatched.


I couldn't agree more, no way I could cope without being pre-patched.



Already got three pairs but I'm going to add more for the two monster case arrangement. (I've ordered two PMBs and two PMS12s). Can't wait nanners
titanlegions
Btw can confirm to everyone that the multiple Sinfonion sync really just works out of the box with no trouble or confusion at all. Making design seem effortless like that is really an amazing skill applause
jdee
titanlegions wrote:
Btw can confirm to everyone that the multiple Sinfonion sync really just works out of the box with no trouble or confusion at all. Making design seem effortless like that is really an amazing skill applause


Working fine here. Admittedly I've not managed to max out all channels across 2 sinfs yet due to time constraints, or run them at megafast speeds, but it all seems very stable to me.

Chaotic detune is a really fun feature. Makes everything lovely and human.
Dunej
Preordered when PC first listed, so hope to get a box soon...

Meanwhile, I would really like to hear from different folks as to how you are actually tuning your various VCOs. Assuming one has waited half an hour for them to warm up, are you a) tuning by ear? b) tuning visually w a scope? c) Using a dedicated tuner like Klavis CalTrans, endorphin.es Autopilot, or Bastl 1983?

Please share your techniques--it certainly isn't necessary to be tuning to a reference standard (A440), but once you've got more than a single voice, you have to get them to sing the same pitches. (Well, of course you don't, but you know what I mean...)

If this is beautifully covered in some other thread, feel free to just direct me there.

Thanks
Mr. Roboto
I‘m using the Mordox Data module as well as my ears to bring my VCO‘s in sync.
mdoudoroff
Dunej wrote:
Meanwhile, I would really like to hear from different folks as to how you are actually tuning your various VCOs.


Why not the TUNE button on the Sinfonion? (https://youtu.be/79LWHfuetnY?t=113)

titanlegions
Among the possible ideas for Sinfonion expanders I keep having is an automatic tuner. The Sinfonion knows what pitch CV it is outputting at all times, so if you had a small expander with inputs for the 8 VCO pitches for the four channels and chords, it could calculate the discrepancies and auto-tune itself in a matter of seconds, provided the audio input given is not too complicated. (Don't know about you but most of the VCOs I use have a sine or other output I don't tend to use).

On the other hand, tuning by ear is pretty easy with the tune button and such a thing would be extra HP, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Mr. Roboto
I think you will need both, a tuner (like the Data I mentioned) and the tuning mode of the Sinfonion. At least if you want to involve any other instrument apart from your Eurorack.
mdoudoroff
Mr. Roboto wrote:
I think you will need both, a tuner (like the Data I mentioned) and the tuning mode of the Sinfonion. At least if you want to involve any other instrument apart from your Eurorack.


Fair enough. Dunej wasn’t necessarily looking for a reference standard tuning, though. When I jam with other synth players, we usually just tune by ear, but yeah, the Mordax Data works great for tuning, and I do use mine for that sometimes. I’ve also used Audiothingies’ tiny CED module for several years.
Mr. Roboto
mdoudoroff wrote:
Mr. Roboto wrote:
I think you will need both, a tuner (like the Data I mentioned) and the tuning mode of the Sinfonion. At least if you want to involve any other instrument apart from your Eurorack.


Fair enough. Dunej wasn’t necessarily looking for a reference standard tuning, though. When I jam with other synth players, we usually just tune by ear, but yeah, the Mordax Data works great for tuning, and I do use mine for that sometimes. I’ve also used Audiothingies’ tiny CED module for several years.


Modularmusic Musicians are able to tune by ear? woah

lol!
mdoudoroff
Mr. Roboto wrote:

Modularmusic Musicians are able to tune by ear? woah

lol!


I didn’t say we actually do it well. lol
Supermathi
titanlegions wrote:
Among the possible ideas for Sinfonion expanders I keep having is an automatic tuner. The Sinfonion knows what pitch CV it is outputting at all times, so if you had a small expander with inputs for the 8 VCO pitches for the four channels and chords, it could calculate the discrepancies and auto-tune itself in a matter of seconds, provided the audio input given is not too complicated. (Don't know about you but most of the VCOs I use have a sine or other output I don't tend to use).

On the other hand, tuning by ear is pretty easy with the tune button and such a thing would be extra HP, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I indeed already had the idea of exactly such an autotune expander. But you have to keep in mind, that this only works for voices consisting of just one VCO each! I for example play most of my voices with multiple oscillators (e.g. 2x Doepfer A-111-4 for the chords). In such a situation you cannot use autotune since the Sinfonion just outputs one common pitch voltage for all attached VCOs of that voice.

From my experience better then autotune is to use stable VCOs. I really play with lots of VCOs and tuning is not really an issue once you have trained this a bit. And of course you should make yourself aquainted with VCO calibration. Here the Sinfonion helps a lot since in tuning mode you can easily switch back and forth between e.g. 0V and 4V. Just use a precise tuning app and you really get very good results.

As a tuning module I can recommend Digital Tuner from L-1. Costs some 90 bucks. And it's just as precise as you wish and very conveniant. I use that a lot during live gigs for a quick and easy retuning of voices while I play!
Supermathi
Mr. Roboto wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
Mr. Roboto wrote:
I think you will need both, a tuner (like the Data I mentioned) and the tuning mode of the Sinfonion. At least if you want to involve any other instrument apart from your Eurorack.


Fair enough. Dunej wasn’t necessarily looking for a reference standard tuning, though. When I jam with other synth players, we usually just tune by ear, but yeah, the Mordax Data works great for tuning, and I do use mine for that sometimes. I’ve also used Audiothingies’ tiny CED module for several years.


Modularmusic Musicians are able to tune by ear? woah

lol!


If I have a voice with three VCOs then I usually just tune one of the with the tuner in order to get a correct absolute pitch. The other two I tune by ear by simply turning "fine tune" until all beating has gone (or that much beating/detune that you like for reasons of making the sound fatter)
-S.L-
I tune everything by ear perfectly, but i use a FREE app called Pano Tuner to at least have a C on the first VCO. All the rest is by ear or, you could use indeed the TUNE option from the Sinfonion !
titanlegions
Supermathi wrote:


If I have a voice with three VCOs then I usually just tune one of the with the tuner in order to get a correct absolute pitch. The other two I tune by ear by simply turning "fine tune" until all beating has gone (or that much beating/detune that you like for reasons of making the sound fatter)


Yeah that's what I do as well, and repeat across all the voices.

Supermathi, do you have any tips or tricks with the Sinfonions for oscillators that are used in drones or kick drums etc, things that it would be nice to keep in pitch with everything else but you don't want to change melodically?

I was wondering about something like being able to set a constant output voltage that is stored per preset or something like that. I originally thought about using the chord root but I think it would be too variable.
Supermathi
-S.L- wrote:
I tune everything by ear perfectly, but i use a FREE app called Pano Tuner to at least have a C on the first VCO. All the rest is by ear or, you could use indeed the TUNE option from the Sinfonion !


In my opinion the main advantage of having a tuning module in Eurorack (like that from L-1) is that your are able to tune (or check your tuning) live without anyone hearing that.
Supermathi
titanlegions wrote:
Supermathi wrote:


If I have a voice with three VCOs then I usually just tune one of the with the tuner in order to get a correct absolute pitch. The other two I tune by ear by simply turning "fine tune" until all beating has gone (or that much beating/detune that you like for reasons of making the sound fatter)


Yeah that's what I do as well, and repeat across all the voices.

Supermathi, do you have any tips or tricks with the Sinfonions for oscillators that are used in drones or kick drums etc, things that it would be nice to keep in pitch with everything else but you don't want to change melodically?

I was wondering about something like being able to set a constant output voltage that is stored per preset or something like that. I originally thought about using the chord root but I think it would be too variable.


Hm. You could allow all 12 semitones in that channel. And have a constant input voltage that matches your required output pitch. Then you get at least a quantisation to the semitone.

This can be extended by not plugging in any pitch input (which give 0V) and assign "Ch _ Pre Trans" to one of the knobs. So with that knob you can statically pitch around the voice in semitones.
titanlegions
Supermathi wrote:
titanlegions wrote:
Supermathi wrote:


If I have a voice with three VCOs then I usually just tune one of the with the tuner in order to get a correct absolute pitch. The other two I tune by ear by simply turning "fine tune" until all beating has gone (or that much beating/detune that you like for reasons of making the sound fatter)


Yeah that's what I do as well, and repeat across all the voices.

Supermathi, do you have any tips or tricks with the Sinfonions for oscillators that are used in drones or kick drums etc, things that it would be nice to keep in pitch with everything else but you don't want to change melodically?

I was wondering about something like being able to set a constant output voltage that is stored per preset or something like that. I originally thought about using the chord root but I think it would be too variable.


Hm. You could allow all 12 semitones in that channel. And have a constant input voltage that matches your required output pitch. Then you get at least a quantisation to the semitone.

This can be extended by not plugging in any pitch input (which give 0V) and assign "Ch _ Pre Trans" to one of the knobs. So with that knob you can statically pitch around the voice in semitones.


Good suggestions, thank you. Will have to see if I can spare the channel... I guess I could always add some more cases at the top and a third Sinfonion wink
Mr. Roboto
To be honest, this thread seems to become mor and more a thread for Sf Betatesters. As long as nobody else got his device I would like all you Betausers to only communicate internaly. What‘s the point of letting us, all the loyal customer, know about all tiny issues you detected?

Will drop ACL a note about this thread...
titanlegions
I have beta tested for the Sinfonion in the past but have not discussed that here at all and not would I. Now I have received the Sinfonions I preordered normally from Schneidersladen, as I’m sure other customers have and will very soon.
Keltie
Mr. Roboto wrote:
To be honest, this thread seems to become mor and more a thread for Sf Betatesters. As long as nobody else got his device I would like all you Betausers to only communicate internaly. What‘s the point of letting us, all the loyal customer, know about all tiny issues you detected?

Will drop ACL a note about this thread...


Except that there’s a bunch of users, myself included, who are not beta testers, have our units and are discussing our first impressions, and having a direct conversation with the designer about it, too. No doubt in future this will be the thread where people share tips, queries, discussion going forward about potential FW developments etc etc.

I’m sorry you don’t have yours yet, no doubt it will be along soon, and I understand your sense of frustration, but at this point, this is an entirely straightforward product / module thread, just like all the others. If you think your retailer hasn’t dealt fairly with your pre-order, that’s a matter between you and them.

What do you thinks gonna happen? ACL will petition the mods here to delete because you don’t have your module yet?

Good luck with that.
BlackDoors
Also not a beta tester, I’m just a customer.

All I did was preorder from a retailer and receive a module. I hope everyone else’s preorders are fulfilled soon!
-S.L-
Mr. Roboto wrote:
To be honest, this thread seems to become mor and more a thread for Sf Betatesters. As long as nobody else got his device I would like all you Betausers to only communicate internaly. What‘s the point of letting us, all the loyal customer, know about all tiny issues you detected?

Will drop ACL a note about this thread...


I feel your frustration. But I personally have shared my personnal impressions and suggestions directly to Supermathi via email rather than here as I didn't see the point (back then) to talk about stuff that nobody would have understand unless you have the unit in your hands.

Just like mentioned above, this is the topic about the Sinfonion, that you or some haven't got yours yet isn't our fault. We are not going to wait that every single customers have their unit to start talking about it hyper
jdee
I’m not a beta tester either seriously, i just don't get it

Bought both Sinfs from my local modular store here in the UK.
Mr. Roboto
Ah, O.K., from a previous comment I got the impression that nobody got their device yet, sorry.

I apologize for my maybe a little bit too harsh comment. And yes, I‘m a little bit frustrated. Didn‘t want to upset anybody. cool

So, to all „real“ customers/users please have fun and share your experience with your new beauty with all of us. applause
Yaitw
I would like to share my frustration with all you people who have gotten their Sinfonion and have not posted a video of some melodic goodness yet evil
There's only so many times I could watch denoises great patch Dead Banana
Keltie
Never mind
-S.L-
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Ah, O.K., from a previous comment I got the impression that nobody got their device yet, sorry.

I apologize for my maybe a little bit too harsh comment. And yes, I‘m a little bit frustrated. Didn‘t want to upset anybody. cool

So, to all „real“ customers/users please have fun and share your experience with your new beauty with all of us. applause


I gotmy sinfonion 2 or 3 weeks before official release, but I PAID for it too, no discount, I'm also a real customer !

I'm getting another one soon (if they ever got stock) hihi
aze_007
I have also ordered and received mine. Do I now have to post something? hihi
jdee
Yaitw wrote:
I would like to share my frustration with all you people who have gotten their Sinfonion and have not posted a video of some melodic goodness yet evil
There's only so many times I could watch denoises great patch Dead Banana


I'm sharing my initial experiments on my instagram: jonpauldavies

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0wST4PhbwS/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B08tZIchmab/

Nothing to impressive yet....Just finding my way around.
cackland
jdee wrote:
Yaitw wrote:
I would like to share my frustration with all you people who have gotten their Sinfonion and have not posted a video of some melodic goodness yet evil
There's only so many times I could watch denoises great patch Dead Banana


I'm sharing my initial experiments on my instagram: jonpauldavies

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0wST4PhbwS/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B08tZIchmab/

Nothing to impressive yet....Just finding my way around.


Nice system you have there. smile
batch
Word on the street (i.e., Dan at Detroit Modular) is that they will be arriving in the U.S. on Tuesday and shipping out to people with preorders same day. Would guess Perfect Circuit will be getting theirs around the same time.

Given this am hoping to have one by this time next week. Can’t wait!!!
matttech
jdee wrote:
Yaitw wrote:
I would like to share my frustration with all you people who have gotten their Sinfonion and have not posted a video of some melodic goodness yet evil
There's only so many times I could watch denoises great patch Dead Banana


I'm sharing my initial experiments on my instagram: jonpauldavies

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0wST4PhbwS/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B08tZIchmab/

Nothing to impressive yet....Just finding my way around.


Nice demos!! thumbs up
Yaitw
Yeah man!.
That house patch rules SlayerBadger!
Mr. Roboto
aze_007 wrote:
I have also ordered and received mine. Do I now have to post something? hihi


For sure! Mr. Green
goiks
can anyone tell me how deep the module is? i couldn't find it in modular grid, the acl website, or the manual.

edit: found it at retailer websites, 25mm.
monads
aze_007 wrote:
I have also ordered and received mine. Do I now have to post something? hihi


I should've ordered from Germany or the UK d'oh!
Hoping USA sellers receive their stock soon.
tokidoki
Received last week. Great module. Just one question concerning the Autogates. You have the assign out 1 for channel one and the assign out 2 for channel 2. What do we do for channel 3 ? Could we imagine to add this function for Gates 1 or 2 ? Or another solution ?
Buyakasoundman
According to PC, their order came in on Friday and is being sent out this week. It’s not their full order and probably only enough for the early (January) preorder makers. I’m hopeful ACL will be on point meeting supply after the initial deluge of orders has been met.
mdoudoroff
Buyakasoundman wrote:
According to PC, their order came in on Friday and is being sent out this week. It’s not their full order and probably only enough for the early (January) preorder makers. I’m hopeful ACL will be on point meeting supply after the initial deluge of orders has been met.


Thank you for checking! Very exciting! hyper
mrerdat
Just got a shipping email from PC. Super stoked! Gonna calibrate my analog oscs' cv tracking in the meantime...
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
Can confirm I received an email from Perfect Circuit stating that mine is being shipped out with 'Priority Mail', which is apparently 1-3 days. Once received, I'll post pics and video asap. Sooooo excited! applause SlayerBadger! twisted
Thank you, Mathias and ACL!
mdoudoroff
For the record, I got my shipping email, too!

It’s been a long wait since October 2017.
monads
Yeah mine is on the way as well from PC. Should arrive today since I'm local w00t
STD
Pre-ordered in March with PC, still no word...
jdee
Starting to get the hang of it.

cioaudio
jdee wrote:
Starting to get the hang of it.



I'm beginning to sense why mine hasn't arrived yet, and why my ep420 case took so long to arrive wink

But seriiously, if many folk have bought 2, that first 90 won't go very far. Here's hoping ACL have another batch on the go.
Keltie
cioaudio wrote:
jdee wrote:
Starting to get the hang of it.



I'm beginning to sense why mine hasn't arrived yet, and why my ep420 case took so long to arrive wink

But seriiously, if many folk have bought 2, that first 90 won't go very far. Here's hoping ACL have another batch on the go.


My understanding is that the first run is planned at 200.

I guess ACL wanted the first few dozen out of the door ASAP. No doubt the others will be along soon

Hang in there!
StoneAgeOfTheFuture
How many of you guys and gals have between 8-16 voices? Just wondering out of curiosity if those who ordered 2 Sinfonions require 2 at this time, or are just planning to expand.
cioaudio
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
How many of you guys and gals have between 8-16 voices? Just wondering out of curiosity if those who ordered 2 Sinfonions require 2 at this time, or are just planning to expand.


Good question. I considered carefully and decided I'd be hard pressed to use all the channels of one Sinfonion even though I have a Supercritical Synthesizers Demon Core Oscillator with expander (16 voice) and can control several hardware MIDI synths using expert sleepers ES-6/7 with silentway CV to MIDI (8 voices). So I may have the voices but not the musical need. I may be wrong but I certainly couldn't justify two initially.

And I'm almost glad mine hasn't arrived yet because I'm so busy with other projects I've only managed to power the rack up for about 30 minutes in the last 2 months. Hopefully I can clear many of those projects in the next couple of weeks because if the Sinfonion arrives they may not get done until next year.
-S.L-
w00t >>> Some Techno Jazz

Fairly quick patch, just using the 4 voices from Mutable Instruments EDGES because why not? (bass, lead, arp and one extra slower note pattern) + 4 different simple waveforms using the Assimil8or as VCO for the chords section.

So 8 voices on this one. Manually changing modes and transposition using Pressure Points which leads to chord progressions.
Using Matthias trick for the lead with the Ribbon Controller, didn't patch my clock divider here to have more rhythm variationnon the lead, was lazy hihi

Kick / Hats samples from Assimila8or.

Random sequences using one Doepfer sequencer for the bass and one Qu Bit Octone for the layer notes.

Arp is internal of Sinfonion. Enveloppes triggered by Numeric Repetitor because it's the most funky gate and pattern generator out there.

There are millions of thing I didn't do on this video such as changing melody on the fly with the buttons for example, octave switches etc... only what you can do in one minute demo meh
mdoudoroff
StoneAgeOfTheFuture wrote:
How many of you guys and gals have between 8-16 voices? Just wondering out of curiosity if those who ordered 2 Sinfonions require 2 at this time, or are just planning to expand.


When I got my WMD Performance Mixer, I thought I’d never use all the channels. Ho ho ho. I now have the expander, too, and still use all the channels.

I’ve got up to around twelve voices, more or less, but I only ordered one Sinfonion, partly due to cost and size. I figure if I need a second Sinfonion, later, there’s probably a way to get one. Regardless, I can certainly see the convenience of having more quantizer channels lying about, ready to go.

-S.L- wrote:
w00t >>> Some Techno Jazz


Fun!
monads
Have plenty of voices but only ordered 1 as well. Besides the cost/extra required hp figured I'd grow into the module and decide later if need another.
denoise
Hi,

I just uploaded a new video with the Sinfonion. It's amazing how quick ideas turn into life with it.

mdoudoroff
Superb, denoise! Thanks for sharing! applause

I’m particularly happy to see this one because it’s recognizably close to what I have in mind for my Sinfonion once it arrives.
tokidoki
The Sinfonion is such a pleasure to play with.
I wanted to share my first improvisations but Soundcloud refused my inscription so I tried Bandcamp and it was OK.
I don't know if Bandcamp is accepted on the forum. I'm not fluent in english but the Muffwiggler FAQs seems silent concerning Bandcamp.
I posted two of these improvisations and it's possible to hear them without paying. They are there only for the pleasure, I'm new with the Sinfonion, with Bandcamp and with the publication of my music.
So please, just take this as the pleasure to share.
These next weeks I'll try to jump in Youtube and post music and images.
For today that's all I can do.

https://bizingue.bandcamp.com/track/glasgow-412

https://bizingue.bandcamp.com/track/glasgow-418

Thank you for all the people who developed this module since 2017.
They give us electrical magic for our musical dreams.
denoise
tokidoki wrote:
The Sinfonion is such a pleasure to play with.
I wanted to share my first improvisations but Soundcloud refused my inscription so I tried Bandcamp and it was OK.
I don't know if Bandcamp is accepted on the forum. I'm not fluent in english but the Muffwiggler FAQs seems silent concerning Bandcamp.
I posted two of these improvisations and it's possible to hear them without paying. They are there only for the pleasure, I'm new with the Sinfonion, with Bandcamp and with the publication of my music.
So please, just take this as the pleasure to share.
These next weeks I'll try to jump in Youtube and post music and images.
For today that's all I can do.

https://bizingue.bandcamp.com/track/glasgow-412

https://bizingue.bandcamp.com/track/glasgow-418

Thank you for all the people who developed this module since 2017.
They give us electrical magic for our musical dreams.


hey tokidoki. thanks for sharing! it sounds great.
Can you please share a little more about your setup? how did you connected the Sinfonion to MIDI ?

thanks
NotHerbert
Pre-ordered from DM in late June, and got a shipping notice today, so there's still hope for late pre-orders.
denoise
I did actually get an ADDAC 222 for using VSTs with the Sinfonion but sadly I had to send it back for repair because I received a faulty unit.

-S.L-
Quick recording of a live jam. Friend of mine challenged me using Mutable Instruments Edges, which has a very specific retro game style sounds.

Drums Assimil8or triggered by Doepfer Trigger Sequencer and Four Bricks Rook.

batch
Got my shipping notice from Detroit Modular.
tokidoki
denoise wrote:
I did actually get an ADDAC 222 for using VSTs with the Sinfonion but sadly I had to send it back for repair because I received a faulty unit.




You asked about my MIDI link. Same as yours. I like this 222 very much, lots of great features, but we have already sent this module back in June for calibration and now it's again out of control. It works without prediction. A moment OK, then stops. Restarts but you don't know when and how long. I hope ADDAC will find how to fix this. They are great for service and this 222 is so unique in the Eurorack family.
Qmod
[s]http://bit.ly/301DV8d[/s]

on the 7th day he rested (after finally figuring out how to embed soundcloud)
Mr. Roboto
Just checked the Musicstore website and saw that they‘ve postponed the delivery date by another few weeks for the third time now. very frustrating
HBCoffin
I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. Dead Banana
XiXora
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Just checked the Musicstore website and saw that they‘ve postponed the delivery date by another few weeks for the third time now. very frustrating

They tend to be quite optimistic on giving delivery dates even if they don't have the item you are looking at. If you want an actual date, perhaps don't check Musicstore and try another store for a more realistic indicator.
Mr. Roboto
Not available in any german shop yet.
HBCoffin
HBCoffin wrote:
I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. Dead Banana


So it seems if the sequencer is active (i.e. SEQ button is illuminated) and I access the clock divider settings in the menu, while on this page it is only a matter of time (3-8 seconds) before the module reboots itself. Can anyone attempt to see if this is a software related issue?
bkbirge
Made it into the rack and powers on. Have to wait until after work to run it through the gauntlet.
damase
-S.L- wrote:
Quick recording of a live jam. Friend of mine challenged me using Mutable Instruments Edges, which has a very specific retro game style sounds.

Drums Assimil8or triggered by Doepfer Trigger Sequencer and Four Bricks Rook.



awesome demo. love your music in general too, a lot of really good recent releases we're not worthy
sinfonion seems perfect for your style
-S.L-
thanks !

I'd say this was more like a fun jam rather than something serious, still getting used to the thing, discovering a lot and unusual way to use it.

This jam is probably typically what you can do without going too complicated, and it's already amazing we're not worthy

This is a hell of a module love
Mr. Roboto
Anybody else here who could reproduce the problem described by HBCoffin?
Milanski
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Anybody else here who could reproduce the problem described by HBCoffin?


Yep, same thing happens here woah
bkbirge
Milanski wrote:
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Anybody else here who could reproduce the problem described by HBCoffin?


Yep, same thing happens here woah


And here as well. But it doesn't seem like a reboot, just a time out to the splash screen, all my settings remain the same and I don't have any glitches when it does so.
Mr. Roboto
So let's hope that this is not a hardware problem and can be easily fixed in a Firmware update.
denoise
you are right, I just tested it and that happens with mine too. I don't know if it is resetings itself, but something strange happens with the taster lights.
Anyway, I think that is something that can be resolved with a firmware update.

btw. I'm still running the beta 5 firmware. Which version do you have?


HBCoffin wrote:
HBCoffin wrote:
I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. Dead Banana


So it seems if the sequencer is active (i.e. SEQ button is illuminated) and I access the clock divider settings in the menu, while on this page it is only a matter of time (3-8 seconds) before the module reboots itself. Can anyone attempt to see if this is a software related issue?
Supermathi
HBCoffin wrote:
I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. Dead Banana


Hey guys,

of course this pretty much looks like a software issue. I'm just wondering, why I haven't recognized this myself. The reason is probably that I have established a habit to close the menu after setting the clock divider...

My suggestion here:

1. I try to reproduce and solve the issue. Shouldn't be too hard since several of you could reproduce this.

2. You simply close the menu after changing the clock divider for the while. This should be stable since I use this for years.

Here is some background information for those that are interested: The Sinfonion has a hardware watchdog. This is some circuit that automatically resets the Sinfonion when its main loop does not push a virtual "button" every second or so. It's the same idea as a dead man's switch in a train. And because the Sinfonion always automatically saves everything to flash (except the current sequence step number) and because the DACs output values do not change during a reboot and because the Sinfonion really boots very fast (couple of ms) most times you won't notice this. The splash screen does not reflect the boot time. It simply lingers around in order to be visible. The module is already working in the background.
HBCoffin
Thanks for testing, everyone. thumbs up

I'm sorry to hear we're all experiencing the same issue, but happy to discover I don't have to arrange for an RMA.

denoise wrote:
btw. I'm still running the beta 5 firmware. Which version do you have?


My Sinfonion is running on the standard firmware that was shipped with the module (1.0).

I'm sure it can be fixed with an update. It appears to be working just fine when Mathias is running the sequencer and accessing the clock divider settings starting at 3:53 in Episode 5 of his Sinfonion series on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/ax9iwY-wa00?t=233

He sticks around the settings page long enough that it should have behaved in a similar manner as we have witnessed.

I've yet to hear anything after contacting support via e-mail, but it's only been about 24 hours.

Hopefully it is something that can be fixed sooner than later. The ability to access and tweak clock divider settings while running the sequencer seems pretty important, to me at least. I came across the issue as I was trying to determine a timing that felt right for a chord progression I was working on.
I would imagine anyone wanting to perform with the module would like to access these settings and change division on the fly while a sequence is running. As of now, it would be risky to do so in a live setting.
Supermathi
Supermathi wrote:
HBCoffin wrote:
I'm having an issue with my Sinfonion. I've already contacted support, but I wanted to ask if anyone else may have had a similar experience in order to rule out any potential bugs in the software. When activating the sequencer, or while SEQ is active while simultaneously accessing the clock divider settings and/or pressing pause/play, all LEDs across the entire module flash off for a brief moment. Performing the same activities sometimes forces the module to reboot completely. It is inconsistent as to exactly what triggers it, but it always seems to happen when making adjustments to the clock divider settings while SEQ is active, activating the sequencer, or pressing pause/play.

I have already tried swapping out the power cable and installing the module in a different case. The behavior remained consistent.

There is one questionable through hole joint on the back of the PCB that may be causing a bridge between a trace and ground, but I'm waiting for a response from ACL before I attempt any repairs. I don't want to void my warranty. Dead Banana


Hey guys,

of course this pretty much looks like a software issue. I'm just wondering, why I haven't recognized this myself. The reason is probably that I have established a habit to close the menu after setting the clock divider...

My suggestion here:

1. I try to reproduce and solve the issue. Shouldn't be too hard since several of you could reproduce this.

2. You simply close the menu after changing the clock divider for the while. This should be stable since I use this for years.

Here is some background information for those that are interested: The Sinfonion has a hardware watchdog. This is some circuit that automatically resets the Sinfonion when its main loop does not push a virtual "button" every second or so. It's the same idea as a dead man's switch in a train. And because the Sinfonion always automatically saves everything to flash (except the current sequence step number) and because the DACs output values do not change during a reboot and because the Sinfonion really boots very fast (couple of ms) most times you won't notice this. The splash screen does not reflect the boot time. It simply lingers around in order to be visible. The module is already working in the background.


I've just had a look into the code. I guess I have an idea alreay. And that would perfectly explain why it only happens when SEQ is on.

So please avoid keeping the menu open in that page! Simply close it immediately after you have set the clock divider. Or switch it back or forth to another page!

Keeping the page open in non sequenced mode should be save.

Sorry for this glitch - this is exactly that kind of problem that is very hard to find in your own tests. You need at least a couple of dozen users until one of them has the bad (or good?) luck to stumble exactly into that pit. very frustrating

The next firmware will definitely fix this problem. And maybe others that we still do not know about yet eek!
HBCoffin
Supermathi wrote:
2. You simply close the menu after changing the clock divider for the while. This should be stable since I use this for years.


I would consider this a solid workaround if it only occurred after being on the menu page for 8-10 seconds without any input from the user. However, I ran one more test, and regardless of whether you simply leave the menu open or you are scrolling through the division options, if you stick around that page too long it will act as noted.

Supermathi wrote:
I've just had a look into the code. I guess I have an idea alreay. And that would perfectly explain why it only happens when SEQ is on.

So please avoid keeping the menu open in that page! Simply close it immediately after you have set the clock divider. Or switch it back or forth to another page!

Keeping the page open in non sequenced mode should be save.

Sorry for this glitch - this is exactly that kind of problem that is very hard to find in your own tests. You need at least a couple of dozen users until one of them has the bad (or good?) luck to stumble exactly into that pit. very frustrating

The next firmware will definitely fix this problem. And maybe others that we still do not know about yet eek!


Thanks for looking into it Mathias! It is something I can learn to live with for the time being, but it would definitely be nice to have fixed in the next update. Mr. Green

So far the behavior is only expressed while accessing the clock divider settings, at least to my knowledge. Leaving the menu open while accessing any other settings causes no such issue. I'll be sure to make note of anything else if I run into trouble.

Other than that, the module has been very inspiring. thumbs up
damase
-S.L- wrote:
thanks !

I'd say this was more like a fun jam rather than something serious, still getting used to the thing, discovering a lot and unusual way to use it.

This jam is probably typically what you can do without going too complicated, and it's already amazing we're not worthy

This is a hell of a module love


youve said it all right there though... staying uncomplicated on the Sinfonion, is still ground breaking as far as modular control goes. and to note that a “fun jam” is a beautiful thing that you can worry less about the collective syncronized composition and just sit back and finesse the instrument

side note, would be cool to have a breakout for the patch bay... just thinking out loud but while im attempting to see how i can work in this module to my racks, its apparent that the cohesiveness crumbles a bit with just a 6u rack, as its meant to be the heart of control... but it takes up so much space only if only 6u is there. it would just be cool to put sinfonion controller in a skiff or pod and then have patch points up in the 6u synth
gwpt
Just got mine and loving it so far. lots of lots of fun.

One thing I can't seem to get it to do (Maybe a feature request) is to assign Bypass to one of the Inputs.

I'd like to be able to turn the quantiser on and off with a footpedal
batch
Been playing with mine for the last two days but still on the same basic patch I started with. This is because it’s just fantastic and can’t being myself to unpatch it yet. Lost the first day playing with the arpeggiator - it’s lots of fun and creates some beautiful melodies when clocked with a different pattern to the master. Lost today by patching up my theremin which has been in a cupboard for a good while. The autogate feature is just fantastic. I now sound like I am a virtuoso on the theremin.

It’s really fun.

Though my wife and kids think I have finally lost it as am sitting in my studio waving my hands around, conjuring magic melodies from the air.

Anyway - I have a big system and have to say that this module really does feel like it’s the key to unlocking it all. Which is exactly what I was hoping for. Really awesome.
NotHerbert
Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?
Milanski
NotHerbert wrote:
Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?


I've not made the purchases yet, but want to hook up my JX3-P to the synfonion for chords so was looking at buying 2x Doepfer A-192-2 CV/Gate to Midi modules. Would these do what you're after?
NotHerbert
Milanski wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:
Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?


I've not made the purchases yet, but want to hook up my JX3-P to the synfonion for chords so was looking at buying 2x Doepfer A-192-2 CV/Gate to Midi modules. Would these do what you're after?


No, that's not what I'm describing. I'm talking about processing already existing MIDI data, like from a MIDI sequencer or controller keyboard. To do that with an A192-2, you'd need to first convert the MIDI to CV with another module, then run it through the Sinfonion, then convert it back to MIDI with the A192. Even then, you'd lose most of the polyphony and probably some controller data like aftertouch or CCs, depending on what your MIDI-to-CV and CV-to-MIDI modules are able to preserve.
atimbral
One of the biggest questions I had when deciding whether to buy one of these was, what could you do with random voltages controlling chord qualities with all those CV INs? Here’s 3 tracks of Eloquencer randomness to a Spherical Wavetable Navigator through the Sinfonions chord section. A Plonk marimba doubles the “lead” line. Envelopes provided by the Natural Gate.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/atimbral/sinfonion-random-chord-snippet[/s]
There’s a bunch of possibilities with this type of patch; the SWN is an easy pairing with the Sinfonion!
mdoudoroff
Delivered Friday, but naturally, I was out of town all weekend.

Hooked it up, tuned up, got chord, arp and bass going immediately out of the box. Very immediate, VERY EXCITING!

danishchairs
atimbral wrote:
... Here’s 3 tracks of Eloquencer randomness to a Spherical Wavetable Navigator through the Sinfonions chord section. A Plonk marimba doubles the “lead” line. Envelopes provided by the Natural Gate.

That’s really nice to listen to!
Supermathi
NotHerbert wrote:
Some months ago there was discussion here about a MIDI expander, and the problems with that idea, but it was focused on generating MIDI notes. It seems to me that quantizing MIDI notes would be extremely useful, and much more in line with what the Sinfonion is. Incoming MIDI data would simply have the note values altered to conform to the current scale. Even nicer would be if each MIDI channel could be configured to use the button settings from one of the Sinfonion channels. Any chance of something like this ever happening?


I indeed had the same idea some weeks ago. I even had the idea that the MIDI expander would have an extra set of buttons for ROOT, 3RD, etc. and work as an extra channel. Maybe even three extra channels that you can switch through or something the like. It would then read MIDI notes from a MIDI input, quantize them and output them again - everything without interferring anymore in the MIDI stream.

This would not allow you to use the chord section for playing MIDI notes or using random CVs for being quantized to MIDI or the like, of course. So it's not a general solution to MIDI...
-S.L-
Took me more time to find how to embed Soundcloud links than making those tracks hihi

Two quick jams using the Sinfonion, those are not finished tunes obviously, just little jam fun to show one very little side of the huge potential of that module, in a musical way. (no off key or out of tunes stuff)

Here using 2 Rings and a Plaits in Rings mode and one "regular" simple VCO

[s]https://soundcloud.com/sebastienleger/3rings/s-7rtn3[/s]



Here is a bit more complex, I've experiemented the chords section more this time, using the chord sequencer, sending 4 wavefolded VCO's in Frames, using it as a quad random VCA, resulting into some glitchy chords that goes to a normal VCF, rest of this are Atlantis for bass, Mother 32 for lead. Beat added post-prod.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/sebastienleger/4frames/s-s0wxX[/s]
NotHerbert
Supermathi wrote:

I indeed had the same idea some weeks ago. I even had the idea that the MIDI expander would have an extra set of buttons for ROOT, 3RD, etc. and work as an extra channel. Maybe even three extra channels that you can switch through or something the like. It would then read MIDI notes from a MIDI input, quantize them and output them again - everything without interferring anymore in the MIDI stream.

I will totally buy this if you make it.

Supermathi wrote:

This would not allow you to use the chord section for playing MIDI notes or using random CVs for being quantized to MIDI or the like, of course. So it's not a general solution to MIDI...

Yeah, it doesn't really seem to me like it should be the Sinfonion's job to be a general solution to MIDI. We've already got MIDI sequencers for that.
[Edit] And CV-to-MIDI modules.
denoise
NotHerbert wrote:
And CV-to-MIDI modules.


There is exactly one module(or device) that can convert polyphonic cv to MIDI. The ADDAC 222
atimbral
danishchairs wrote:
atimbral wrote:
... Here’s 3 tracks of Eloquencer randomness to a Spherical Wavetable Navigator through the Sinfonions chord section. A Plonk marimba doubles the “lead” line. Envelopes provided by the Natural Gate.

That’s really nice to listen to!

Thanks!
jdee
denoise wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:
And CV-to-MIDI modules.


There is exactly one module(or device) that can convert polyphonic cv to MIDI. The ADDAC 222


Apparently General CV by Expert Sleepers does this really well, if you use its midi expander. I’ve got one but not tried it yet. Going to hook it up to a Digitone and report back.
cioaudio
jdee wrote:
denoise wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:
And CV-to-MIDI modules.


There is exactly one module(or device) that can convert polyphonic cv to MIDI. The ADDAC 222


Apparently General CV by Expert Sleepers does this really well, if you use its midi expander. I’ve got one but not tried it yet. Going to hook it up to a Digitone and report back.


From RTFM that appears to be single cv to MIDI

As for the ADDAC 222, it appears to suffer rather too many faults.

I would have to believe the Sinfonion woul have more context to convet to MIDI.

In the 80s there were devices such as the ZYPHER DIGI-AtoM 4800 and Sycologic AMI.

I'm using Expert Sleepers ES-6/7 with Live but it is horrid to set up and so far not working well with an Instruo Harmonaig.
jdee
cioaudio wrote:
jdee wrote:
denoise wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:
And CV-to-MIDI modules.


There is exactly one module(or device) that can convert polyphonic cv to MIDI. The ADDAC 222


Apparently General CV by Expert Sleepers does this really well, if you use its midi expander. I’ve got one but not tried it yet. Going to hook it up to a Digitone and report back.


From RTFM that appears to be single cv to MIDI



Not sure thats correct.

12 mins in on this video says its quad cv to midi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNBnyRublkg

and the manual says: "There are four 'note generators' and nine 'CC generators'"

I'll check mine out tomorrow and report back.
Mr. Roboto
denoise wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:
And CV-to-MIDI modules.


There is exactly one module(or device) that can convert polyphonic cv to MIDI. The ADDAC 222


There are also the Analogue Systems RS-300 and the Döpfer A-192-2 (two channels only).
NotHerbert
cioaudio wrote:
jdee wrote:
denoise wrote:
NotHerbert wrote:
And CV-to-MIDI modules.


There is exactly one module(or device) that can convert polyphonic cv to MIDI. The ADDAC 222


Apparently General CV by Expert Sleepers does this really well, if you use its midi expander. I’ve got one but not tried it yet. Going to hook it up to a Digitone and report back.


From RTFM that appears to be single cv to MIDI

As for the ADDAC 222, it appears to suffer rather too many faults.

I would have to believe the Sinfonion woul have more context to convet to MIDI.

In the 80s there were devices such as the ZYPHER DIGI-AtoM 4800 and Sycologic AMI.

I'm using Expert Sleepers ES-6/7 with Live but it is horrid to set up and so far not working well with an Instruo Harmonaig.


I think that's the most discussion I've ever seen follow from something I said as an afterthought. lol
For the record, I'm not opposed to an expander that can generate MIDI note data. If Mathias can solve the technical problems, I'm all for it. I was just saying that for me personally, a MIDI quantizer expander would be a higher priority, and I think it more clearly falls within the purview of the Sinfonion.
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