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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Joystick/Touch
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> BugBrand Devices  
Author Joystick/Touch
BugBrand
Every so often I wonder about a joystick controller.
The CTL2 Joystick/Touch still feels like quite a good basis - though I didn't actually find myself using it all that much. I would be looking to use a new type of joystick - nicer feel - and alter the layout simply to bring it into line with current modular designs. I had previously wondered about FSR pressure sensors for the touch points, but actually the old ones worked very nicely.

The main question is whether it would be of interest - I would have to specially order joysticks in quite a reasonable quantity. The price falls quite a lot from 60 units to 120 units, but that is quite a lot of stock to get tied up.. I'm not sure there'd be demand enough even if spread over 2 years or something.

What do people think?

mbleming
+1 for me, I'd love to have one of these in BB format.
Be Sandy?
I'd definitely buy one Tom.
It would complete my Bugs control boat.
fever606
I'd love to have one... seems like it would be a fantastic combo with the Reds and SV/Blues!

Controlling Chirper oscillator cross-mod? Both COFilter freqs? Filter and Decay Mod levels on the DRM2? Not to mention all the options it opens up on the SynthVoice... w00t

In short: yes, please!
DickMarker
Honestly, I've found I haven't got as much use out of joystick modules as I thought I might but would love to have some touch control capabilities so I'd probably get one for that and count the joystick as a bonus!
soup
Yes!
T. Jervell
DickMarker wrote:
Honestly, I've found I haven't got as much use out of joystick modules as I thought I might but would love to have some touch control capabilities so I'd probably get one for that and count the joystick as a bonus!

I actually feel the same way. I’ve got a joystick module that’s most of the time just sitting there.... BUT I really think the touch points, with both gate and pressure out will make this one much more useful for me, as I could actually use the gate outs to fire envelopes, then modulate filters etc. with the pressure outs and use the joystick to control pitch and/other aspects of a patch simultaneously!
So yeah, I would get one if you decide to start up production thumbs up

While were talking controllers, I would absolutely love it if something aking to the CTL1 was to be made available hihi
jjsynth
A touch controller would be rad. I'm also not so sure about a joy stick.
lud
I'd definitely buy one, been hoping to pick one up used but haven't seen any. The touch pads and switch options are are big bonus!
chrisdermo
As I've probably mentioned hundreds of times already - YES!!! Would be all over a joystick, also been trying to find an old one forever, surely the fact that no one is giving one up is a testament to it's usefulness? I'd likely want 2 for my control row.
Definitely prefer touch plates to fsr's. I got used to the way the CTL1 plates react after some time to get acquainted and calibration, find them perfect for that pressure playing style.
BugBrand
Ha, yes, so there are two people with similar slight joystick ambivalence as I have! Every so often there's an instance where I think a joystick would be great, but in practice..
Batchas' videos tend to remind me to try joysticks again - and, actually, the Radiomusic module - playing that with a joystick would be fun.
chrisdermo
Other Frac users may also want one? I also don't think there's a joystick solution for other banana systems is there? Maybe people would go for standalone solutions to use with Serge and Ciat Lonbarde etc.
chrisdermo
Also, if you end up revisiting the old bin mux designs I believe old blue users have stated the usefulness of having a joystick and touchplates to control the ins on such a module.
/\/\/\/
Do you find that the touchplates work well in conjunction with the joystick? I would almost prefer to have the two separate, and maybe have a dual joystick module... then you can really get into some left/right brain 4-D action.

But yeah - I envision the joystick would be really nice for something like the DRM2 or DRM1-X, as something like a global controller.

It seems like a good option. I have an IR sensor that is kind of fun, but not especially useful (kind of a novelty). A joystick would have the added bonus of fixed settings and finer control.
BananaPlug
Perhaps a dual unit could offer some special advantages. Don’t know what exactly but it’s intriguing. Also like the idea of involvement with Chirper.
sungja
There was a dual joystick box from years ago i believe. Joybox?? That was cool. thumbs up
fredguy
/\/\/\/ wrote:
Do you find that the touchplates work well in conjunction with the joystick? I would almost prefer to have the two separate, and maybe have a dual joystick module... then you can really get into some left/right brain 4-D action.

But yeah - I envision the joystick would be really nice for something like the DRM2 or DRM1-X, as something like a global controller.

It seems like a good option. I have an IR sensor that is kind of fun, but not especially useful (kind of a novelty). A joystick would have the added bonus of fixed settings and finer control.


The joystick and touch plates work great together. I often use the joystick x-y outs for secondary filter/ envelope modulations. The pressure and gate outputs are fun with the PT delay time and controlling the SEQ1 respectively.
I'm in for a second if Tom decides it's a go. Miley Cyrus
jimmie
I definitely would like to have one! only i'm currently broke very frustrating
lnd
jimmie wrote:
I definitely would like to have one! only i'm currently broke very frustrating



^
seeasound
Ive always fantasised about having that intellijel joystick for when I eventually go modular and now that im getting in on the bug scene I would for sure be keen to play with that form of control.

It would also look the business in a system I reckon.
batchas
BugBrand wrote:
Batchas' videos tend to remind me to try joysticks again

Always cool to have some in the system. For modulation and interaction of course, but also for mutliple use.

Last patch I was short on switches and the joystick saved me Guinness ftw!
And 2 axis = 2 switches.
This ext. inputs setting is actually very, very handy. So you have also attenuating, inverting, switching in your setup.

I never had the one with the touchplates, but IMO it's very good to have these with the joystick.
Having all these on one module allows to have a lot of control, add some swing and so on.

On mine, BTW I use the momentary switch very often, but having it also as toggle is very useful.
batchas
BugBrand wrote:
The main question is whether it would be of interest - I would have to specially order joysticks in quite a reasonable quantity. The price falls quite a lot from 60 units to 120 units, but that is quite a lot of stock to get tied up.. I'm not sure there'd be demand enough even if spread over 2 years or something

Maybe you could ask Intellijel if they have spares from the Planar 2 batch? Maybe they are happy to let some go if they also had to buy a big quantity to get fair price. Just thinking out loud...
Voltage_Controller
+1 would buy
otoskope
I think you could just make more of the old one. It's the best joystick controller I've ever used. I have used it quite a lot as the main controller for a small impro system, and the combination of the touch controllers and the joystick allows for a wide variety of gestural playing styles. Having both gate and pressure output is essential - gate for triggering or switching, and simultaneously using the pressure for expression.

The choice of uni/bi-polar and processing + DC generation is also great.

The only thing is that I found the pads a bit difficult to calibrate, so I put insulation tape on top of them, and in that way I achieved the most controllable pressure response. Especially the soft levels were hard to produce before. So, as you did in Rev.3 of the CTL1, putting lacquer on top, would help.

Apart from that, it is perfect!

/Palle
chrisdermo
otoskope wrote:
I think you could just make more of the old one......., it is perfect!


thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
Art
It's the favorite module of mine in fact. Very flexible in routing and can create continuous, moving, changing sound easily. SlayerBadger!
BugBrand
otoskope wrote:
I think you could just make more of the old one. It's the best joystick controller I've ever used. ...

The only thing is that I found the pads a bit difficult to calibrate, so I put insulation tape on top of them, and in that way I achieved the most controllable pressure response. Especially the soft levels were hard to produce before. So, as you did in Rev.3 of the CTL1, putting lacquer on top, would help.


Nice -- though I do think I want to use a new joystick unit.

Good point on the touch plates.

I will try to do a prototype as I have 5 joystick units for prototyping...

Of course, I will be redoing the design to bring it up-to-date but the basis is firm.
otoskope
Good to hear - just don't remove any features!
The current joystick (the actual stick and its base) has worked for me, but I could see that a little more friction could be good. Just don't add springs - would totally destroy it for me.
/Palle
BugBrand
Yeah, hear you! The new type is lovely and, yes, unsprung.
a100user
otoskope wrote:
Just don't add springs - would totally destroy it for me.
/Palle


Agreed
rpc
If you’re gauging interest, I’d be interested in a BugBrand joystick.
I have an Intellijel Planar v1 with adapter cables which has some useful functions such as vector mixing, trigger button, unipolar/bipolar switches, and motion sensing to gate. Wish it was banana/frac.
jjsynth
Count me in.
radams
BugBrand wrote:
Yeah, hear you! The new type is lovely and, yes, unsprung.

Tom, can the new joystick fit in old CTL2’s
BugBrand
I doubt it..
(If you have an issue with your old joystick - eg. excessive floppiness (that wasn't meant to sound dodgy!) - I do still have some of the old ones)
rico loverde
In for one!!!
BugBrand
Well, prototype ordered...
chrisdermo
yeah!! nanners
DickMarker
Out of interest, how high does the joystick protrude from the module panel?
BugBrand
DickMarker wrote:
Out of interest, how high does the joystick protrude from the module panel?


About 1.5"
DickMarker
BugBrand wrote:
DickMarker wrote:
Out of interest, how high does the joystick protrude from the module panel?


About 1.5"


Ta very much.
chrisdermo
DickMarker wrote:
Out of interest, how high does the joystick protrude from the module panel?


That could be a line from some seriously geeky pillow talk. lol
DickMarker
chrisdermo wrote:
DickMarker wrote:
Out of interest, how high does the joystick protrude from the module panel?


That could be a line from some seriously geeky pillow talk. lol


My girlfriend has already discovered the fecund world of synthesizer sexual innuendo but we haven't touched on joysticks yet!
chrisdermo
DickMarker wrote:
we haven't touched on joysticks yet!

Saving that for the wedding night!
otoskope
BugBrand wrote:
DickMarker wrote:
Out of interest, how high does the joystick protrude from the module panel?


About 1.5"


Should be added that you can easily unscrew the stick for packing. Will the new one have detachable stick, as the old one?
BugBrand
otoskope wrote:
Should be added that you can easily unscrew the stick for packing. Will the new one have detachable stick, as the old one?


Unfortunately not - that was a nice feature (& I think my stick design was quite nice - I got that part made custom.)
otoskope
Oh, that will complicate things when going on tour or travel with the system :( Are you sure you cannot find a way to remove the stick temporarily?
batchas
otoskope wrote:
Oh, that will complicate things when going on tour or travel with the system :( Are you sure you cannot find a way to remove the stick temporarily?

If no, then maybe mount it inverted when travelling. Sorry I miss the words in english. Rear on top I mean. No idea how high is the rear though.
Hopefully my comment is not too stupid. Just thinking out loud and spontaneously...
rpc
BugBrand wrote:
Well, prototype ordered...

Looking forward to hearing more. smile
wednesdayayay
I would indeed love a dual joystick setup for ciat lonbarde wiggling!
I'd be in for at least 1
batchas
Stick of joy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GtU4ywCdas
BugBrand
batchas wrote:
Stick of joy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GtU4ywCdas


Yeah, should be good with RadioMusic etc!

Here's a pic of the proto - I need to do a new panel as the touch-plates really need 0V around them (for actual touch) and not be covered by soldermask (hence the kludgey scraping..)
Other than a couple of minor design tweaks, the core is working well - but it'll take a while to actually receive the joystick production order.

lud
Looks perfect, can't wait!
chrisdermo
BugBrand wrote:
batchas wrote:
Stick of joy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GtU4ywCdas


Yeah, should be good with RadioMusic etc!

Here's a pic of the proto - I need to do a new panel as the touch-plates really need 0V around them (for actual touch) and not be covered by soldermask (hence the kludgey scraping..)
Other than a couple of minor design tweaks, the core is working well - but it'll take a while to actually receive the joystick production order.



Awesome! Love the new touchplate design too thumbs up

When you say 0v around them (for actual touch) - do you mean a second touchplate around it connected to 0v? I find with my CTL1 if I want a super strong response I touch the frame at the same time and it generally leaps straight to full CV - is that because the old REV1 CTL1s don't have that 0v point around the plates?
BugBrand
Yes, exposed 0V (and the touch plate itself) - both because, as you noted, touching 0V alters the sensitivity, but also because (guessing due to move to DCDC) there is some interference going on without 0V present.
chrisdermo
BugBrand wrote:
Yes, exposed 0V (and the touch plate itself) - both because, as you noted, touching 0V alters the sensitivity, but also because (guessing due to move to DCDC) there is some interference going on without 0V present.


Gotcha!
batchas
BugBrand wrote:
and not be covered by soldermask (hence the kludgey scraping..)

You give this to the people in the village where I live and they will love it hihi
They are all addicted to games where they scrap some scratchcards.

otoskope
So, Tom, is this circuit design different from he old CTL2? Because I always use it covered with tape, as I had problems getting a good dynamic range without it - it hit the maximum too fast for my taste. As it is now, it gives great control over gradual touch. Actually, it was my main controller for a series of improv gigs in the SF Bay area a couple of weeks ago.

BugBrand
Yeah, I'll probably sort one for you to test - basically the same circuit approaches, so we'll have to test to dial it right in correctly.
Kafgee
i would love a joystick for my little system applause
BugBrand
This is how it has turned out. Unfortunately the batch of PCB panels was bloody awful so will be remade once Chinese New Year holidays are over. Counting up today how many acceptable panels there actually are - unfortunately only a small handful from 75 PCBs (what an f'ing waste - actively looking for a new PCB panel supplier now)

otoskope
Sorry to hear about the PCBs - but it looks good. Very similar to the old one, function-wise. Different feel in the new stick?
BugBrand
The new stick is lovely!
(but not removable).

The PCB panels have been quite an issue in general the last year - far too much wastage. But these were the worst yet.
T. Jervell
Beautiful Tom! I really like the new design of the touchplates love
BugBrand
BugBrand wrote:
Counting up today how many acceptable panels there actually are - unfortunately only a small handful from 75 PCBs


OK - so there are enough 'reasonable' panels to do at least a small batch now. I'll do them at a £10 discount as the panels are less than perfect - a few minor/small blemishes or scuffs - typically quite hard to see unless you're really looking.
chrisdermo
BugBrand wrote:

The PCB panels have been quite an issue in general the last year - far too much wastage. But these were the worst yet.


GRRRR sad banana the design does indeed look awesome though w00t
lud
Love the new touchplate design too, beautiful module all round
lud
+ sorry to hear about the PCB panel woes, very annoying very frustrating
shred
looking great! thumbs up
Kafgee
I promise I won’t look nanners
batchas
BugBrand wrote:
This is how it has turned out. Unfortunately the batch of PCB panels was bloody awful so will be remade once Chinese New Year holidays are over. Counting up today how many acceptable panels there actually are - unfortunately only a small handful from 75 PCBs (what an f'ing waste - actively looking for a new PCB panel supplier now)

Yeah the last batches were horrible here too. I was stupid not ot order more than needed so I could have today a few ok in the pile, instead of nothing.

The Joystick / Touch looks good thumbs up
rpc
Love the new design. thumbs up
chrisdermo
My only reference point to compare to is a VCS3 I played with for a few hours last year, but these new joystick modules are ace! Good work Tom :-D

Are there any maintenance / care instructions for the stick we should be aware of? Would using a teeny tiny amount of some sort of lubricant on the gyroscope at the back totally wreck it's ability to stay in position?
BananaPlug
chrisdermo wrote:
some sort of lubricant on the gyroscope at the back

Wow! a gyroscope! That would be a first. hihi
chrisdermo
BananaPlug wrote:
chrisdermo wrote:
some sort of lubricant on the gyroscope at the back

Wow! a gyroscope! That would be a first. hihi


You know what I mean! The criss crossed metal slidey things. hihi hihi
BananaPlug
Yeah, I haven't ever needed to do anything to them but I'd think any kind of light greasy stuff that's safe for plastics would be okay.
kingspill
I'd be in for one.
moog55
I'm in for one as well. Tom - I will email you as I think I must have fallen off your mailing list.
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