Yamaha FS1R: such a nightmare to program? Editors?

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Yamaha FS1R: such a nightmare to program? Editors?

Post by Diamat » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:20 am

Hello, I'm very tempted to purchase a Yamaha FS1R before prices go ever more crazy, but I am seriously concern by the reliability of the software editors available for OSX
https://synth-voice.sakura.ne.jp/fs1r_e ... glish.html
https://coffeeshopped.com/2018/02/yamah ... h-base-210

It would be fantastic to have something like the Monstrum Media "monstrumWaveXT" for the Waldorf Microwave XT which allows randomization and another features that smooth the process of synthesis, but to my knowledge not such a thing exists...

Any feedback regarding your experiences with the FS1R in general and its editors?

Thanks! :miley:

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Post by jimfowler » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:36 am

I used that very editor with my fs1r and while it worked it did so so slowly that it sucked all the fun out of the experience. I’ve since given up and sold my fs1r. So much potential but you couldn’t have designed a less-usable machine.

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Post by joey » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:06 am

The new MODX is like a super FS1R and quite easy to edit. Maybe check that out?

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Post by Diamat » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:12 am

joey wrote:The new MODX is like a super FS1R and quite easy to edit. Maybe check that out?
but lacks the Formant Shaping Synthesis...

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Post by joey » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:21 am

it has formant stuff in the effects

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Post by IanEye » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:08 pm


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Post by Diamat » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:38 pm

IanEye wrote:- http://zeeedit.free.fr
Wow! looks awesome, thanks!
Any experience using it?

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Post by stikygum » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:01 pm

This is a good reminder. I forgot, I bought zeeedit a few months back and meant to get it to work with VMware Fusion, but I haven't set it up yet. Of course, if you're on PC, then it's a straight forward to install. But from what I could tell after researching the options, this had the best UI and some cool tricks like being able to copy Envelopes to other Operators!! :sb:

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Post by stikygum » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:03 pm

joey wrote:it has formant stuff in the effects
So ModX isn't just a slimmed down Montage? I don't think Montage had any formant thing going on inside.

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Post by mokomo » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:28 pm

After using a pc editor (Sakura and Zeeedit) you quickly learn a mental image of the structure and the FS1R is actually fairly easy to navigate using the onboard screen and knobs.

Some rainy Sunday I plan to program my Bomebox and Doepfer drehbank...

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Post by joey » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:39 am

stikygum wrote:
joey wrote:it has formant stuff in the effects
So ModX isn't just a slimmed down Montage? I don't think Montage had any formant thing going on inside.
Yes it has a formant filter

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Post by Diamat » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:24 am

joey wrote:
stikygum wrote:
joey wrote:it has formant stuff in the effects
So ModX isn't just a slimmed down Montage? I don't think Montage had any formant thing going on inside.
Yes it has a formant filter
The thing is that the FS1R is using the formant wave form and uses the "formant sequence, this being a series (128 or 512) of "frames" that define the level and frequency of each of up to 8 'voiced' (pitched) and 8 'unvoiced' (un-pitched) formant generators over time." (from the wiki)

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Post by joey » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:01 pm

ok well that sounds really cool, i'd love to hear some examples.

anyway, i downloaded that FS1R editor, and, at least for the FM portion, the MODX has all the same algorithms and features

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Post by stikygum » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:21 am

Yeah, Diamat hit it on the head. The FS1R has more going on inside with it's Formant synthesis. Montage nor MODX have that, as they just use a formant filter and that's it. I don't know why Yamaha doesn't include that in the newere FM synths. It's such a cool feature to have.

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Post by joey » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:42 am

any FS1R owners want to post some cool formant stuff?

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Post by Diamat » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:15 am

joey wrote:any FS1R owners want to post some cool formant stuff?
Weirdo land!

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Post by dubonaire » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:18 am

Diamat wrote:
joey wrote:any FS1R owners want to post some cool formant stuff?
Weirdo land!
That's cool but not worth $1000 dollars of bad interface hardware.

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Post by joey » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:42 am

yeah im honestly not hearing much there that I couldn't do with the MODx and a couple formant filters

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Post by Diamat » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:41 am

joey wrote:yeah im honestly not hearing much there that I couldn't do with the MODx and a couple formant filters
Yes, I agree it is a quite lame use of the machine, but I am just intrigued by the specs

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Post by Diamat » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:55 am


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Post by fac » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 am

I've owned two FS1Rs. They're beautiful sounding synths and not that hard to program with a software editor. But IMHO, they're not worth a grand. I was lucky to find the ones I owned for much less than that. If I were going to spend a grand, I would just get a MODX6 and be done with it. Yes, the formant stuff is missing, but IHMO the AWM and effects on the MODX would give you much more than the FS. I've made some very nice patches with the AWM on an EX5R and MOXF6, and the MODX interface looks much more friendly. Plus the MODX has motion sequencers and other cool stuff not found on the FS1R. Not to mention lots of polyphony and multitimbral parts.

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Post by Exhale » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:27 am

As far as I remember people got it from ebay for 400$ not long time ago.
Then suddenly prices went up to space.
But listening to demos, just a complex fm with cool filter, but rather slow envelopes compared to old DX/TX series.

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Post by Koryo » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:08 pm

I purchased my FS1r new back in the day because it's a complete DX-7, had formant synthesis, and was cheap because no one wanted them.

Yes, it's not much fun to program. Is it worth a grand? No. Can it make sounds that no other synth can synthesize? Yes.

The formant shaping in it is not simply filter based. Yamaha never released the tools to make them on your own. So you were stuck with just a hand full of stock formant patches such as Humanoid, Choir, Shooby do, Shaman and Yes-No.

[video][/video]

Then, years later after most everyone had sold them, this Dutch guy wrote a FS1r formant encoder. WAV file in -> FS1r formant patch out.

FSeqEdit https://niff.home.xs4all.nl/fs1r/

mp3 samples: https://niff.home.xs4all.nl/fs1r/fseqs/mp3/

It does not have to be voice type stuff, which is really cool.

Then, other patch editors started showing up. http://zeeedit.free.fr/ is probably the best.

https://stimresp.wordpress.com/tag/fs1r/

[video][/video]

OSX, yer, kinda out of luck.[/video]

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Post by Pugilistas » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Yamaha just didn't know how to present the FS1r. It had every DX7 sound you'd want. It could do formant synthesis, but they never released a reasonable editor, and never developed a commercial wave to formant converter.

The formants could be used to modify other aspects of the synth, sorta like quasi-LFOs. Blowin' your own led to all sorts of quirky tricks. Sold mine when they hit a thousand -- but I still might buy one back. Unless Yamaha comes out with a better rack/desktop version of the new FM engine.

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Post by IanEye » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:56 am

at the risk of getting in trouble here, I will point out that I have an FS1R and a pc with the ZeeEdit software (I would put it up for sale on the "for sale" page, but I don't have a 100 posts about cat gifs yet).

If you live in Central Mass, and are interested in seeing how it works, let me know.

[video][/video]

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