MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Information
Happy holidays! Please see the year-end funding drive post in the Announcements subforum. Thanks and all my love to you beautiful people.

Novation SL MkIII (kybd/sequencer/controller/MIDI-CV)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author Novation SL MkIII (kybd/sequencer/controller/MIDI-CV)
Rex Coil 7
Dayum son! Sexeh ...

Novation dropped a keyboard controller with the equivalent of "EIGHT Novation Circuit style sequencers" built in. Loads more including MIDI-CV conversion with CV/Gate outs and MIDI/USB I/O. Ready-to-go Abelton integration. Well, here ... enough of my bla bla ... let's permit Div Kid do the talking ...

(and I just took delivery of a Squarp Pyramid yesterday ... ugh ... it just never ends!)

Panason
SCREENS ! KNOBS!

The screen should be above the knobs, yo. d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

The LEDs above the keys are interesting. Maybe they can be used to show you which keys to play for a particular scale. I'll be up for a small version but not looking forward to Automap again..

I like what they're doing here, it's a good step or three towards what I've been dreaming about.
Dave Peck
All of those features, controls, and displays......

... and the keyboard doesn't have aftertouch.

Not even channel/mono type aftertouch.

wtf? sad banana

very frustrating
Panason
It's another hunk o' plastic that's for sure.

Silicone buttons too waah .. seems kinda pricey at the moment. A 37 key version minus the sliders is the only thing i'd have space for..
Rex Coil 7
Dave Peck wrote:
All of those features, controls, and displays......

... and the keyboard doesn't have aftertouch.

Not even channel/mono type aftertouch.

wtf? sad banana

very frustrating
Yes it does so have aftertouch!

LINK =
https://novationmusic.com/keys/sl-mkiii

QUOTE = "SL MkIII boasts our finest and most playable synth-style semi-weighted keybed, with a sprung action tuned to the needs of the experienced player. It’s got aftertouch too, assignable to anything. Its exceptionally high scan rate of 10 kHz gives the keys a super dynamic feel for expressive performances. And you can see scales, modes and zones instantly with vibrant on-key RGB LED feedback.

SL MkIII's velocity-sensitive RGB pads have multiple functions too: they can be used for launching clips, as steps in the sequencer, for finger drumming, and have polyphonic aftertouch."

POLYPHONIC AFTERTOUCH ON THE PADS YO! I'M TALKIN' 'BOUT POLY A.T. ON THE DAYUM PADS MANGS!!!!

HELLS yea!

Panason wrote:
It's another hunk o' plastic that's for sure.
Yea, Novation seems to prefer to use plastic housings. It matters less if the keybed has a steel frame, which it just might especially if they're still using FATAR keybeds. Granted there's different versions of FATAR beds, for instance the Novation Impulse series are outfitted with FATAR beds but they are the plastic framed versions.


Panason wrote:
Silicone buttons too waah .. seems kinda pricey at the moment. A 37 key version minus the sliders is the only thing i'd have space for..
I just paid $750 for a Squarp Pyramid ... it also uses silicone buttons. Many stuffs do these days. Myself, I don't mind them.

thumbs up
Dave Peck
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:
All of those features, controls, and displays......

... and the keyboard doesn't have aftertouch.

Not even channel/mono type aftertouch.

wtf? sad banana

very frustrating
Yes it does so have aftertouch!
:


Whoa! I see that text on the site now, but when you click on the TECH SPECS on the website, it lists the keyboard as 'semi-weighted with velocity', but no mention of aftertouch. And the PDF user manual doesn't mention aftertouch at all, either... Weird.
stikygum
I think Novation just may have made a game changing device. They did a really good job with this controller. Would have been cool to see more CVs on the back, but I suppose a CV.OCD or something would work with it to give you more.

The SL mk3 has so much going for it, I think you could really accomplish a lot, in the form of composing music. The pattern length is a bit limiting, but maybe and hopefully that will be something they expand in an update. Other than that, it all looks really good. I think it's the best controller keyboard out there now. And software updates could make it even more so.

Nice work Novation thumbs up
tarmoog
Reason I why sold Circuit was that there was no probability options, it always played patterns the exactly same way. Quick read of SL mk3 manual leaves me with impression that this does have same sequencing model.

Another thing I didn't find in manual is that you cannot change current pattern being played with external MIDI note or CC. So you always need to be doing those with your fingers.

In a way it is simple and ok for most people, but if you want anything more advanced features, then Elektron line of products are way better choice.
Rex Coil 7
tarmoog wrote:
Reason I why sold Circuit was that there was no probability options, it always played patterns the exactly same way. Quick read of SL mk3 manual leaves me with impression that this does have same sequencing model.

Another thing I didn't find in manual is that you cannot change current pattern being played with external MIDI note or CC. So you always need to be doing those with your fingers.

In a way it is simple and ok for most people, but if you want anything more advanced features, then Elektron line of products are way better choice.
Am I mistakenly thinking that the Elektrons don't send MIDI out from their sequencers? It seems I have read that about them. Maybe it is another brand/model.

cool
adnauseam
At this very moment I'm quickly deciding this is just another hunk of plastic.

I don't get why so many companies do such a half-assed take on the sequencing stuff.

"Here's an only OK keyboard... and we put a sequencer-thingy in it.. kind of.. well it has patterns!"

Perhaps they'll continue to develop the software. The screens paired with knobs thing is pretty rad, but as mentioned, the screens should be above confused Guess they probably can't change their order of 1000's of units!
tarmoog
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
tarmoog wrote:
Reason I why sold Circuit was that there was no probability options, it always played patterns the exactly same way. Quick read of SL mk3 manual leaves me with impression that this does have same sequencing model.

Another thing I didn't find in manual is that you cannot change current pattern being played with external MIDI note or CC. So you always need to be doing those with your fingers.

In a way it is simple and ok for most people, but if you want anything more advanced features, then Elektron line of products are way better choice.
Am I mistakenly thinking that the Elektrons don't send MIDI out from their sequencers? It seems I have read that about them. Maybe it is another brand/model.

cool


Octatrack, Digitakt, Digitone send out MIDI and A4 you can only use for sequencing CV. Analog Rytm doesn't send anything else than triggers or audio.
Panason
tarmoog wrote:
Reason I why sold Circuit was that there was no probability options, it always played patterns the exactly same way. Quick read of SL mk3 manual leaves me with impression that this does have same sequencing model.

Another thing I didn't find in manual is that you cannot change current pattern being played with external MIDI note or CC. So you always need to be doing those with your fingers.

In a way it is simple and ok for most people, but if you want anything more advanced features, then Elektron line of products are way better choice.


The only Elektron product truly worthy as a MIDI sequencer is the OT (the DT/DN lack song mode) The old silver boxes suffer from those screens, do not offer true MIDI polyphony and you can't use a controller keyboard with them afaik. Not sure if they even record MIDI input...

Pattern triggering via MIDI and probability functions should be added to the SLMK3 and it's not unreasonable to ask Novation to implement those.

It looks like I am onto something with my dream sequencer concept!
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=207100

If Novation are releasing this then my concept may be commercially viable after all!
tarmoog
Panason wrote:

Pattern triggering via MIDI and probability functions should be added to the SLMK3 and it's not unreasonable to ask Novation to implement those.


It is possible that they release it in future, but circuit firmware is currently at version 1.7 and there hasn't been any indication of Novation being interested in probability functions.

As a company Novation targets their products to wider audience, that is more mainstream orientated (EDM etc). Most of their consumers don't care at all about generative music or probability functions, so there isn't much pressure for Novation to change anything.
Panason
I don't do generative music and more interested in conditional triggers eg "play this step only once every x bars" , "play this step only if previous step triggered/not triggered" functions. This allows variations and mitigates the problem of only having 4 bar long patterns .
But, if pattern chaining is easy on the Novation then I'd rather use more patterns than complicate things with conditional triggers.

There's a whole bunch of stuff (eg copy / paste steps) that makes a MIDI step sequencer capable of involved work and I doubt Novation have covered all the bases....

I had a look at the manual, and while step copy / paste is covered there is no word of micro-timing or any way of nudging notes off the grid so there's that.
You can have different tracks playing at different clock subdivisions, and there's swing, but there seems to be no way to avoid strict quantisation.


Otherwise it looks pretty decent!

As for remote control there's this:

Quote:
Loading a Session Using Program Change
It is possible to load a Session by sending a ‘program change’ message to the device on channel 16. By default, the
indicated Session will load instantly. If 64 is added to the program ID the session load will be cued (during playback,
see Cued Session Switch).



Divkid's video sounds like a promotion....
Rex Coil 7
Ok hold up ... let's keep things in context here folks. The Elektron Octatrack is TWO TIMES more costly than the 61 key version of this new Novation. TWO TIMES.

My excitement stems from the fact that ... at last ... there's a dedicated controller kybd that has a full fledged sequencer, arpeggiator, MIDI/USB-CV converter on board along with polyphonic aftertouch available. Granted, the poly AT is only accessible via the 16 pads ... but it beats nuthin' ... which is precisely what pretty much every single kybd/controller/sequencer/arpeggiator currently offered has regarding poly AT ... nuthin, a big fat nuthin.

This new Novation is also completely set up to mesh with Abelton right out of the carton. That matters to some folks ... a lot!

Someone in this thread mentioned that this new Novation is aimed at mainstream consumers ... well no kidding. What was expected? ... something that addressed niche market or eccentric sequencer functions? I mean come on already. That's like voicing disappointment that the new Chevy Camaro doesn't have gull wing doors, a twin turbo'd v12 cylinder engine, a composite monocoque body/chassis, and a 250mph top speed.

Seriously I don't think anyone with realistic expectations is surprised that Novation released a kybd/controller/sequencer/arpeggiator/MIDI-CV converter device is aimed at your average consumer. Novation isn't and never has been involved in limited market designs to the best of my knowledge.

As far as I know, there isn't one other controller outfitted like this one at this (or any other) price range. The 61 key version is $700 bucks. If it's outfitted with a FATAR TP/9 or TP/9S (which it may be, that is yet to be determined) that feature alone is nearly worth the $700 tag. I'll point out that the Synthesizers.Com QKB61 (which is a FATAR TP/9S) has a base price of $475 plus shipping. If you add the solid walnut sides and top it just hit $564 plus shipping ... and we still need a proprietary power supply that it will not work without which bring it to $644 ... plus shipping. And that buys you a 5 octave MIDI keybed ... with ZERO extra features (no wheels, no buttons, no knobs, no sliders, no screen, no foot controller inputs, no pads).

So I think approaching this from a fairly angled point of view to keep the context realistic, it's fair to say Novation has done a great job.

The main thing I see from it all is that (hopefully, very hopefully) this will push other manufacturers into offering solid keyboard controllers equipped with sequencers and arpeggiators. To me this is a total no brainer and should have been addressed long ago. Until this came along, if one wanted those functions in a bundle it was only obtainable by buying a complete synth at 2x or 3x the money.

Sequencers, arpeggiators, kybd controllers, MIDI-CV converters .... these are all MIDI functions. They belong together. Arturia is just that close to having the same offering with their new MkII controllers ... all that is missing is the sequencer/arpeggiator. Which (to me) is nearly sinful of them to have not addressed that. That new MkII of theirs would be a world beater if it were outfitted with a well though out sequencer/arpeggiator. To quote "Agent 86" from the 1960s TV series "Get Smart" ...... "missed it byyyy that much".

So my hope is this will kick start a trend, and maybe "jap slap" the industry into getting their shit in one bag. The MSN Smack!



Personally, I have zero need for this new Novation. I already have two of the Dot Com QKB61 keybeds, a Kenton Pro 2000 MkII and a Pro Solo (those are MIDI-CV converters), a Squarp Pyramind sequencer, a Doepfer Pocket Electronics MIDI controller kit, along with a pair of Behringer FCB1010 MIDI foot controllers. So my MIDI controller needs are completely met.

However I am hopeful that this new Novation SL MkIII will be the start of something wonderful. That ~something~ is way overdue.

stikygum wrote:
I think Novation just may have made a game changing device. They did a really good job with this controller. Would have been cool to see more CVs on the back, but I suppose a CV.OCD or something would work with it to give you more.

The SL mk3 has so much going for it, I think you could really accomplish a lot, in the form of composing music. The pattern length is a bit limiting, but maybe and hopefully that will be something they expand in an update. Other than that, it all looks really good. I think it's the best controller keyboard out there now. And software updates could make it even more so.

Nice work Novation thumbs up
Right on Member *stikygum ... my thoughts precisely.

applause
tarmoog
It is ok for what it is, it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. Simple sequencer with parameter locks(per step programmable cv or midi cc values) for 8 tracks.

If this fits your requirements for a sequencer/keyboard hybrid then go for it.

I still feel that is my responsibility to point out what it is missing. If you don't care about probability/conditional trigs or controlling pattern play externally then just ignore my comments.
Panason
tarmoog, check out that bit about loading "sessions" with program changes - this may do some of the job of controlling pattern play externally.

I think this looks great on paper. They have nailed several things I have been wanting: polyphonic step sequencing with per step automation of CCs, synth controller, keyboard with LED guides, hi-res screens aligned to encoders.

IF it works as it should and IF the midi timing and clock are tight. That's a real IF.
jam457
This looks really cool, and even though the sequencer is simple, it is something that I would want especially with the cv/midi integration thing....the price seems crazy though but maybe I dont get it??? 839 canadian is kind of ridiculous when I could pay just a tiny bit more for a squarp and have so much more cool sequencing options....

If someone really needed a nice keybed I guess it makes sense? I dunno still seems like a bit much...
Panason
You can actually manually automate pich bends

Quote:
F. Automation
With the SL MkIII’s Sequencer recording, you can automate the movement of the following Template controls:
• Rotary Knobs
• Faders
• Soft Buttons
• Pads (press/release & pressure)
• Pitch & Modulation Wheels
• Pedals
Once a control moves the corresponding LED or screen will light red, and the control will begin overwriting any of its existing control data as the Transport advances. Movements are recorded and played back at a resolution of 24
PPQN regardless of the current pattern sync rate (equivalent to 6 data points for each Step at the default 1/16 sync rate). Automation will record or overwrite until either recording or playback stops; we, therefore, recommend disabling record as soon as possible to ensure you do not overwrite automation when the Se-quencer loops back around.

You can automate up to 8 controls for each Track in a Session. The screen will notify you when you have used another automation lane or if there are no more available lanes for the selected track.

........

Holding the Clear button will highlight all the controls that have automation data in the current Pattern and hide those that do not. For example, if the Pitch Wheel is automated its LED will illuminate as you hold Clear.

While still holding Clear, any movement of a control will clear its automation in the current pattern.

You can also manually assign values to a Step, which is very useful when more accuracy is required. While stopped, press the Transport’s Record button (Transport). Then, select a Step (by pressing a pad) to enter Step Edit mode. This action will audition the Step. Move a control to the desired value to assign this value to the Step, and deactivate re-cord. In the case of the Pitch Wheel, move it to the desired position, then disable record before letting go of the wheel.


applause
EPTC
The pot recording on the knobs/modwheel with the sequencer is pretty dang nice.
gringostar
This really looks like a pro version of the keystep.

Props to novation for making one while arturia didn't.
Panason
Wait a minute....
Quote:

You can also manually assign values to a Step, which is very useful when more accuracy is required. While stopped, press the Transport’s Record button (Transport). Then, select a Step (by pressing a pad) to enter Step Edit mode.


Does this mean you can only do step parameter automation with the sequencer stopped?!? cry
stikygum
jam457 wrote:
This looks really cool, and even though the sequencer is simple, it is something that I would want especially with the cv/midi integration thing....the price seems crazy though but maybe I dont get it??? 839 canadian is kind of ridiculous when I could pay just a tiny bit more for a squarp and have so much more cool sequencing options....

If someone really needed a nice keybed I guess it makes sense? I dunno still seems like a bit much...


I think so too. However, Native Instruments controller is as much and doesn't do what this does and vice versa.
dubonaire
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

So I think approaching this from a fairly angled point of view to keep the context realistic, it's fair to say Novation has done a great job.


Yeah I agree. I don't really understand the criticism.

I have the original Mk1 and although it's plastic it's quite robust. It looks like they've got rid of Automap as well.
pix
Panason wrote:
Wait a minute....
Quote:

You can also manually assign values to a Step, which is very useful when more accuracy is required. While stopped, press the Transport’s Record button (Transport). Then, select a Step (by pressing a pad) to enter Step Edit mode.


Does this mean you can only do step parameter automation with the sequencer stopped?!? cry
]]

this is an important point to figure out.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Page 1 of 3
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group