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Building another computer - Project is GO!
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Author Building another computer - Project is GO!
Rex Coil 7
December 2, 2018 - I renamed the thread ... it used to be "Buying another computer - PLEASE HELP!". The new name is less of a plea for help and more of a project preamble since I've decided to commit to moving ahead with building a new computer.

Computer GO!

********************************************



It seems I end up buying another Windows desktop machine every few years (4 to 5 years or so). It's ~that time~ again.

I don't need a new monitor.
I don't need a new kybd.
I don't need a new trackball.

I've had fine luck with the Dell 780 desktop setup. I see there are PILES of those on eBay in various "refurbished" configurations. Looks like I can get away with doing this for around $175.00 to $250.00, which includes a 1yr warranty. 3yr warranty adds about another $50 bucks or so. Win10, I don't need super duper video (I've never played a computer game in my entire life, I'm just not into that), 8GB memory, 3GHZ dual core ... hmmm ... that's about it.

Intended use: Live 9 (I typically use an M-Audio Audiophile USB 2ch audio interface for recording I/O, while I may buy something else once all three of those M-Audio units I have on hand eventually die off) ... running the Nord Modular Editor ... just a very few stand alone VSTs (FM7 and OPX Pro 2 come to mind). Aside from the basic Windows utilities like Word Pad, Paint, and Windows Photo Viewer that's really about it other than Adobe for reading manuals. This computer won't be used for internet activities, just used in my music studio.

QUESTIONS:


** Is an internal solid state drive worth the extra investment? I can haz a 1 Terrabyte for anywhere between $60.00 to $150.00 depending on which ad I select. I don't know what makes a ~good one~ vs imported garbage, so I'm a bit vulnerable there.

** How about also using an external SSD for archiving or extended storage? There are SOO MANY to chose from ... yikes!

** Most of the ads only allow you to select a memory "size" ... I'd guess 8GB is optimal? Most just mention the size, nothing about ~speed~.

** I'm ok with a 3GHZ dual core ... any reason that's a bad choice?

Really the largest cost adder seems to be the hard drive choice. Here's one example ...

LINK = https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Build-Dell-Optiplex-780-DT-E8400-3-00G Hz-Desktop-Computer-PC/192435285262?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL .CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150817211758%26meid%3D31ba13ef6b77408fa86a 68beb004ea0e%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D192435285262 &_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226

Is something like that ~ok~ or is it a dreadful mistake?

A little bit of encouragement would be helpful. Thanks. thumbs up
Final_Instrument
SSD are definitely worth it and prices have come way down

I would recommend trying to get 16gb if possible

Are you running loads of vst?
Panason
1- SSDs are possibly the most substantial speed improvement for personal computers ever made- on a par with moving from floppy disk to hard drives but better because you no longer have to worry about moving parts or excessive heat, or drive noise!!!.. If you don't use an SSD these days you are making your life harder for no good reason.

2. You don't need Adobe to read PDFs. there are free PDF readers that do the job faster.

3. 8GB RAM is a minimum for DAW multitracking + plugins on each chanel... more RAM is better.

4. A quad core CPU will be significantly better for working with DAWs.

5. Upgrading to Live 10 is highly recommended if you must stick with Ableton. Since you're a modular user and if you have the time/energy to learn another DAW I would suggest Bitwig. It's just better in almost everything, only really lacking in a dedicated control surface. With Bitwig you can do stuff that to replicate in Live you have to mess around with nerdy Max devices that always feel tacked on to the DAW and are clunky, use too much CPU etc.

6. A decent graphics card will help with more than just games.. eg rendering GUIs, and may make the computer snappier in various use cases.
Rex Coil 7
Final_Instrument wrote:
SSD are definitely worth it and prices have come way down

I would recommend trying to get 16gb if possible

Are you running loads of vst?
No actually. Roughly three or four, but not all at once. Probably the most resource hungry one is "OPX PRO II" which is an EXCELLENT rendition of the Oberheim power synths, most notably the OBX, OBXa, and others of the same era and type. FM7, CS-80v, and the Hammond emulation known as "B4" is about it. So, about four of them.

Panason wrote:
1- SSDs are possibly the most substantial speed improvement for personal computers ever made- on a par with moving from floppy disk to hard drives but better because you no longer have to worry about moving parts or excessive heat, or drive noise!!!.. If you don't use an SSD these days you are making your life harder for no good reason.

2. You don't need Adobe to read PDFs. there are free PDF readers that do the job faster.

3. 8GB RAM is a minimum for DAW multitracking + plugins on each chanel... more RAM is better.

4. A quad core CPU will be significantly better for working with DAWs.

5. Upgrading to Live 10 is highly recommended if you must stick with Ableton. Since you're a modular user and if you have the time/energy to learn another DAW I would suggest Bitwig. It's just better in almost everything, only really lacking in a dedicated control surface. With Bitwig you can do stuff that to replicate in Live you have to mess around with nerdy Max devices that always feel tacked on to the DAW and are clunky, use too much CPU etc.

6. A decent graphics card will help with more than just games.. eg rendering GUIs, and may make the computer snappier in various use cases.
Thanks ... and before I dive into this let me just say that I like your new avatar!

1.) As I thought, I just needed that "push" ... thanks to Member *Final_Instrument for that as well.

2.) I did not know that.

3.) Good to know. HA! ... I have an old WinXP machine housed in a Carillon rack chassis ... it has 4mb RAM and runs Sonar Producer Edition 6.3 ... I used to think that was the shit! Actually I still record with that thing sometimes.

4.) I'll look into a quad core ... right on.

5.) I've seen some people lament over uprating from Live 9 to Live 10 ... speed issues or harder to use or some such thing. More research is clearly needed.

6.) I'll look into that ... if it significantly increases the cost then I'll have to do a return on investment study on the use of a zoot capri graphics card. Would it require upgrading the monitor as well? I have two flat screens at present, one has a digital connection, the other has the analog connection (a 9 pin or something like that).

THE MODULAR COMPUTER (just dreamin'): I've always been interested in making a "modular computer" of some sort. Something with the right type of chassis that would allow easy access to the various ~ahem~ "modules" and easy upgrading and changing of those "modules" (storage drives, graphics cards, RAM, and so on). I've seen articles and images of some of those types of systems used by gamers that are as diseased with their chosen disciplines as we are with ours (synths). Liquid cooled CPUs, crazy cool looking fan/radiator set ups, and so on. I've often envisioned a custom cabinet made of wood that has plexiglass (or other) view ports, internal LED lighting, and a cooling system with intake and exhaust filters like what some aftermarket automotive/motorcycle air filter companies offer (such as K&N). Imagine a computer all open-framed with a few components mounted inside of a wooden enclosure sitting beneath the modular synth. The enclosure would be about the size of a small end table, large enough to enclose all of the loose components with locations to mount various ~whatevers~ to the wooden chassis. The computer junk all inside of the enclosure, ducted cooling fan intakes and filtered exhaust outlets using automotive style filters. It would keep things quieter since the fans themselves would be inside of the enclosure. And it would look very "modular synth-like" ... sorta~kinda.

Imagine an intake air filter like this mounted on the side of the enclosure ...

LINK = https://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-63-1007-1/overview/

Something less costly (obviously), but the same idea. One could be on one side for intake, another on the other side for exhaust. We have cats (so hair and fuzz issues) and we live in the desert (so airborne dust and fine silt issues).

Oh well ... rambling again. It's just an idea inspired by my years of hot rodding and motorcycles as well as inspired by modular synth design philosophies.

Back to reality here, thanks for the help folks. I'll get straight to looking in to everything suggested up to this point.

cool
Koekepan
First off: I agree with you on modular computers. Before I go into a five page rant, let's move on ...

SSDs can be good. Most modern ones are good. But it's worth looking into the spec. SSDs give you low latency to small pieces of data. They give you good burst rates of data delivery, but some of them have low _sustained_ rates of data transfer, and if you use big sound libraries, this can be a pain. I'm well aware of the costs and benefits around SSDs, but when I built my current production machine I put in four cheap drives into a RAID 10 array for the purposes of redundancy - and the speed isn't an issue. Nor is the noise, because it isn't all that loud and isn't in a room where I do much recording.

I also back up my work to a different device entirely. You may be well advised to give some thought to backups *hinthint*.

External drives tend to be the low performance option. Anything over USB isn't going to be great, Thunderbolt isn't likely to be good, eSATA is probably OKish. So if you are in SSD for performance, then external drives are only for backup or bulk storage.

More cores are better. A lot of musical software is threaded to at least some extent, and when you're using multiple processes (plugins, typically) they're very handy. However, make sure that the chip in question has ample cache to keep all those cores fed, otherwise you're paying for cores you won't use well.

If in doubt, there are some CPU benchmark comparison sites online, dig around a bit.

More RAM is better. Faster RAM is better, but to be honest RAM is rarely a big pain point in terms of speed unless you're a frantic gamer trying to squeeze out one more FPS. For producers, it's mostly not an issue. Buy quantity over speed, here, because your RAM is making up for your slow hard drives, and no RAM on the market is slower than your hard drives.

Even a fairly modest graphics card is fine, as long as it means that the graphics card is doing the heavy lifting instead of your CPU. As for a new monitor? Just check that the graphics card has the right connector for your monitor. I'm guessing you have a VGA monitor? Or DVI? You can easily verify this with the mark 1 eyeball.

Feel free to ask for elaborations.
Panason
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
[Thanks ... and before I dive into this let me just say that I like your new avatar!

Thanks, it's one of my designs... I might post more somewhere. Can't really do them anymore because computers, but I have a few in my portfolio!

As for the "modular" PC , it is totally a thing you can do and there are websites like Partpicker that will match components so you don' end up buying stuff that doesn't work with each other. They will also price things up for you and show you how popular they are.
It takes too much time and research for me but it is possible to find a pre-built "gaming PC" on Amazon and then match the components with a cheaper graphics card for your custom PC. From what I gather it is worth getting a good PSU with a bit more power than you need, and low noise spec.

Motherboard choice is important for future-proofness. I got the impression that Gigabyte and MSI make decent motherboards.

You can get PC cases with large doors, no doors, even see-through cases or sound-proofed cases...
peripatitis
Panason wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
[Thanks ... and before I dive into this let me just say that I like your new avatar!

...

Motherboard choice is important for future-proofness. I got the impression that Gigabyte and MSI make decent motherboards.


You can get PC cases with large doors, no doors, even see-through cases or sound-proofed cases...


I don't believe future proofness is possible atm, well at least with intel processors.
Every new processor seems to demand a new socket, so the motherboard is there only for a specific generation of processors, where upgrading rarely makes much sense.

Amd has promised to keep the same socket for a few years but i've never used one so I can't vouch for them.
Still it seems to offer a valid alternative after years of lagging considerably behind intel.
Rex Coil 7
peripatitis wrote:
Panason wrote:
...Motherboard choice is important for future-proofness. I got the impression that Gigabyte and MSI make decent motherboards.
I don't believe future proofness is possible atm, well at least with intel processors. Every new processor seems to demand a new socket, so the motherboard is there only for a specific generation of processors, where upgrading rarely makes much sense.
I could not agree more with you Member *peripatitis ... and with new CPUs with new sockets come new motherboards ... and with new motherboards come new frames to mount them on or new mounting hole spacing/configurations.

This is part of what has always driven me to think of building a more modular computer system. It doesn't have to be exotic or super tricked out, it can be as simple as wooden chassis that allows mounting pretty much any motherboard, any drive bays, any cooling system, any PSU. I've done a little research on the notion this afternoon and have discovered that "wall mounted" or "board mounted" computer systems are within vogue or chic of the day's computer fashion.





(below) Now this here is a modular synthesizer user's computer system! It is as "modular" and flexible as the modular synth itself. Mount it all in a wooden box or "cabinet" with circulation fans and air filters ... a 100% future proof computer chassis!





Now, enclose something like what's shown above in a simple wooden enclosure with active air circulation systems (intake and exhaust fans with easily replaced air filters). If you look at the image below (my studio system, in the state of disarray it's in due to being in the midst of rearranging things) you can see I'm one of the fortunate ones with enough physical space to place such a computer system. The lower shelf beneath the table on the right which sits on industrial ~shelf racking~ is 24 inches deep and 72 inches wide. Clean out some of the crap-age and there would be about 2 feet by 3 feet of industrial shelf space available for such a computer set up (pretty much directly under the kitty, to the left of the rack mounted amps and rack mounted Carillon computer). Just relocate the storage bins that sit there.



This makes for about the most "future proof" chassis and mounting system one can come up with. It used to be the personal computer industry operated on the premise of "here today gone tomorrow" ... but anymore it's closer to "here today gone later today". We, as end-users, have a choice. We can continue to throw money at keeping our computer systems up to date by chasing the stuffed fake rabbit around the race track (like racing greyhounds) ... or ... we can take our destinies into our own hands and make basic mounting foundations/cabinets that will permit us to mount whatever crap the computer mavens insist we must have.

This idea I'm pushing here is no different than taking the old Curtis Mathis stereo/TV console and splitting it up into it's components to create what we knew as the modern stereo system for 40 years. The turntable, amplifier, tuner, tape deck, EQ, and so on became separate components.

There is no reason that the computer owner with enough space and some DIY moxy cannot do the very same thing.

The "wall mounted" computer system shown in the lowest two images posted above is my very favorite of the pile. Yea yea, I saw plenty of pics of clear topped desks where tons of RGB/LED lighting is used to show off the cooling systems and fans (and .. and ... and) under the clear desktop were displayed. Yawn. Totally not interested. Something like that is just as committed to design standards and mounting standards that your basic computer tower chassis is.

Something like what's in the pics above may be modified very easily to accommodate any new motherboard mountings, any PSU mountings, any new drive bay mountings and any new wiring looms by simply screwing things down and using any wiring looms required.

Break the chains of computer design slavery! Make a wooden box, mount your stuffs, and compute!

And thus spake Rex. thumbs up
Panason
That looks amazing, with all the copper .. steampunk PC!

A wooden enclosure would trap heat and so require more cooling.
Rex Coil 7
Looks like something like this will run me around $267.00 shipped free. Seller states they are a "Microsoft Registered Refurbisher" and that the OS is "Genuine Microsoft Windows software preinstalled".

Small Form Factor.
Dell Optiplex 780 SFF Q8400 2.66GHz Desktop.

** Quad core 2.66ghz
** 16gb ram.
** 256GB SSD
** Win 10 Pro.
** 1x Ethernet (RJ45)
** 1GB Network Port(s)
** Serial Port - Yes
** PS2 Ports - Yes
** Front Audio In/Out
** 0x USB 3.0 Ports
** 6x USB 2.0 Ports (2x Front USB Ports)
** 1x PCI Express
** 1x PCI Express
** x16 Expansion Slots Half Height
** VIDEO = VGA and D-Port (which can be adapted to VGA, DVI, HDMI, or Mini-HDMI) - Integrated/On-Board Graphics Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500
** CPU = Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 2.66GHz 4 (Quad) - Core Processor
** 1yr warranty.

SOME "WTF?" ISSUES:

(WTF?) - No BIOS Password (Guaranteed NOT Locked)
(WTF?) - OEM Hard Disk Based Recovery Image - A recovery partition exists on the hard drive to restore the computer back to the installed Windows image.

According to this chart I found on the web (below), I have one monitor outfitted with "DVI-D Single Link" and another monitor outfitted with "VGA".



It seems that every quad core system I see runs at around 2.66ghz. Now that is slower than what I've been used to seeing in dual core systems (roughly 3.00ghz). Is it that quad core systems don't have to run as fast since there are four processors handling the heavy lifting?

The details above are pretty much all that sellers are offering in the way of tech specs. At least that's what I seem to be finding.

Worth spending my hard earned on? hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it
Rex Coil 7
Panason wrote:
That looks amazing, with all the copper .. steampunk PC!

A wooden enclosure would trap heat and so require more cooling.
Hence why I mentioned exhaust and intake fans with filters.
matthewjuran
A quad core with 16 GB seems like the right start to last years of good usefulness from today. Have you considered laptops though?
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
** CPU = Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 2.66GHz 4 (Quad) - Core Processor

I’m reading that this is from 2010, but the above comment refers to processors from the past few years. There’s computation efficiency that improves along with power consumption that goes beyond just frequency. Get something newer!
matthewjuran
[deleted]
mkc
The Q8400 is the dead giveaway there. That PC's ancient history.

Nowadays, clock speed is meaningless - CPU generation is what's important. New generations have expanded instruction sets and new architectures that boost single-thread performance, even at low clock speeds.

If you're looking at intel, you'll want a core i3/i5/i7. The first number on the 4 number code after the "i" designation is the processor's generation, the second number is related to how good the processor is. So, for example, a low-end 9th (current) gen intel CPU would be the i3-9100. A high end 6th-gen chip is the i7-6700.

Any 6th or newer-gen processor will serve you well. You might also be happy with a 4th or 5th gen i5 or i7 - but Intel did a great upgrade for gen6, and the gen6 i3s outperform some older chips with much higher core counts/clock speeds.

The Q-series chips are Core 2 Quads, from before the core i series. So that Q8400 is a chip from 10 generations ago.

FYI: I got my current desktop (i3-6300, 8gb ram, nice graphics card: gtx1060) for $450 from craigslist in 2016. Had to spend some extra $$ to buy an SSD for it, but that was my idea of a good deal in 2016. Still runs Ableton 9 great. Chugs a bit with u-he DIVA, though (side note: DIVA and REPRO-1 have the best analog filter emulations I've heard in a VST, ever. Also, if you get the chance, try out GSi's VB3 - I prefer it to B4 personally).

Monitors-wise, DVI and HDMI are essentially the same (although HDMI bundles in digital sound and special optional features for DVD players) - you can buy adapters from one to the other. VGA is a bit older - Almost all PCs still have VGA ports, but if the PC you end up buying has 2 DVI/HDMI ports, it may be worth spending like $100 to upgrade the VGA monitor, since DVI/HDMI is sharper and supports higher resolutions.

Hope this helps!
Rex Coil 7
Ok, so what is an E8400 then?

The reason I ask is that my last computer purchased is a dual core with 8gb ram running at 3.00ghz with a 2TB hdd and the OS is Win7/SP1 with a 2009 copyright date. The "E8400" is listed in the processor specs. I've been running Live 9 on it as well as the few VSTs and hardware editors I've listed previously in this thread. It's been doing just fine for me.

I guess what I am saying is that context is important. That said, allow me to list what I'll be using again;

** (64bit operation).
** Live 9 (maybe I'll uprate to Live 10, but that's a maybe)
** No more than four VSTs (FM7, B4, CS-80v, and OPX Pro II). And they won't be running all at once. I tend to record tracks and use them as playback instead of real time running VSTs all at once. I also use a hardware MIDI sequencer and record hardware synths as tracks. However I use the hardware sequencer as playback, not the DAW.
** A couple of hardware synth editors (Nord Modular, E-MU Audity 2000).
** Beyond that, a few of the Windows programs such as Paint, Word Pad, Windows Photo Viewer, and whatever it takes to view, create, and post videos of synth stuff to share with the forum. Those videos will be transferred to our internet computer (the one I am typing on right now).

This new computer will not be used to access the internet. That's what I use the one I am writing this post with for (the dual core Win7 machine).

So with that having been said, how does that affect choices?

Thanks. thumbs up
Koekepan
The short answer is that if your previous system was adequate, this one should be adequate. As long as you're not a VST-collecting maniac, and your workflow remains unchanged, you should be in pretty good shape because you aren't on the PC hardware treadmill (the way that so many gamers are).

But I will add that this is one of the reasons I had for moving to hardware. There are Moogs from the 1980s and earlier that sound perfectly usable, and many of our current leading devices are years old. Even a lot of early digital devices find their niche (just ask the MPC heads).
Blingley
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

Ok, so what is an E8400 then?


Intel core duo processor. I checked, and it benchmarks at around 2150 at PassMark - for the record, i3 models that you can sometimes get for like 30 bucks off ebay frequently benchmark for over 5000, and you can get something with a score almost 7000 for 80-ish bucks, new AMD 8-Core-FX-8300. That being said, if you know nothing about it, sourcing parts and checking compatibility is a pain.

250 for a that model is a terrible deal - you would have been able to get one for 80 bucks from PCliquidations (which sells refurbished office grade) in probably better condition than off of some random stranger on the internet, if they were not out of stock Dell Optiflex on PC Liquidations The version you are contemplating has a lot of RAM and a SSD which contribute to the higher cost - but it also has a processor so old I doubt it will be able to view YouTube videos in high resolution. Decking out a processor that old with more ram/SSD really does not make sense. Something like the following will almost certainly outperform it in any real application: Lenovo ThinkCentre, refurbished, sold and refurbished by Lenovo themselves. It has half the ram, but the processor itself is three times faster. Yes, SSD and more RAM are great upgrades to have, but I would honestly pick a model with a passable processor first - otherwise the processor will bottleneck the system anyway.
matthewjuran
If you’re ok with the 2009 computer then an equivalent from 2010 is fine.

It can be surprising how much an underpowered computer slows down the effort; if you remove that barrier then you might get more done, and if you’re making money with it then that gained time might be worth more than what you put into the computer. It is just a tool and you should get what you need for completing the task without unnecessary barriers.

Looking at the newest desktop processors it appears that the max power consumption hasn’t changed much from yours.

I agree that getting an SSD makes sense, it will make saving and opening audio files faster and it will also reduce other waiting you do now. A newer processor would also help with most of the waiting that isn't just saving or loading from disk.

A quad core would help parallel work happen smoothly, like multiple VSTs or more than one DAW. It can help by enabling the operating system to arrange software as something like having one core dedicated to mixing and outputting the audio while the other three walk through tracks and render the VSTs.
rod_zero
Custom build PC's are as modular as it can get.

The big advantage of a custom PC over a brand one is that the desktops by Dell, HP, etc use their off-brand PSU and motherboards, which usually are not expandable and not designed to be upgraded over time.

If you get a custom PC and you choose the parts you can reuse many of them: the Case, PSU, RAM, GPU, HD/SSD, so you only upgrade motherboard and CPU down the line.

Many manufacturers offer cases that are easy to work with, from the more barebones chassis designed for testers:

http://www.lian-li.com/pc-t60

To incorporating the computer in to the desk: http://www.lian-li.com/dk-05/

Cases with easy access and fast to upgrade: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Graphite-Serie s%E2%84%A2-380T-Portable-Mini-ITX-Case/p/CC-9011061-WW

You wanted something with glass? https://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Mid_Tower_/Core/C_00003358/Core_P3 _Tempered_Glass_Curved_Edition/design.htm

Looks more modular: https://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Full_Tower_/Level_20/C_00003170/Le vel_20/design.htm
peripatitis
rod_zero wrote:
Custom build PC's are as modular as it can get.

The big advantage of a custom PC over a brand one is that the desktops by Dell, HP, etc use their off-brand PSU and motherboards, which usually are not expandable and not designed to be upgraded over time.

If you get a custom PC and you choose the parts you can reuse many of them: the Case, PSU, RAM, GPU, HD/SSD, so you only upgrade motherboard and CPU down the line.

Many manufacturers offer cases that are easy to work with, from the more barebones chassis designed for testers:

http://www.lian-li.com/pc-t60

To incorporating the computer in to the desk: http://www.lian-li.com/dk-05/

Cases with easy access and fast to upgrade: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Graphite-Serie s%E2%84%A2-380T-Portable-Mini-ITX-Case/p/CC-9011061-WW

You wanted something with glass? https://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Mid_Tower_/Core/C_00003358/Core_P3 _Tempered_Glass_Curved_Edition/design.htm

Looks more modular: https://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Full_Tower_/Level_20/C_00003170/Le vel_20/design.htm


This is a bit theoretical, in practice if by upgrading you mean a serious leap in processor speed, you will have to change the motherboard, the processor, the ram, the heatsink and keep what? A couple of ssd's that a) communicate slower than the now trend, and b) you shouldn't probably be trusting with your data for more than 4-5 years?
In reality you get stuck with the power (if you don't hunt for efficiency) and a box with a couple of usb-2's in front to remind you how old that case is. (and ok perhaps a pci expansion card here or there..)

Case in point?
I have an i7 920 pc I've built 9 years ago on a Silverstone fortress 1 case.
Since making it, I've upgraded to 12gb or ram, changed the power to a seasonic fanless version, changed the heatsink for a noctua one and changed the graphics card, added a couple of pci cards (firewire) and changed to an ssd.
Ok so I had a mildly better user experience from the machine but in number crunching computing? I don't think the needle even moved..

So I now need to either spend 250 euros to get the flagship processors of that socket (i7 990x extreme) in the second hand market, to bring this to a 3rd generation equivalent performance or I need to spend 700-800 euros to bring it up to speed and live with that ageing box by my side or take my gamble with second hand stuff.


And we still await for the processing toll the "security hole" intel suddenly found out will take smile


Rex Coil 7 wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
Panason wrote:
...Motherboard choice is important for future-proofness. I got the impression that Gigabyte and MSI make decent motherboards.
I don't believe future proofness is possible atm, well at least with intel processors. Every new processor seems to demand a new socket, so the motherboard is there only for a specific generation of processors, where upgrading rarely makes much sense.
I could not agree more with you Member *peripatitis ... and with new CPUs with new sockets come new motherboards ... and with new motherboards come new frames to mount them on or new mounting hole spacing/configurations.

This is part of what has always driven me to think of building a more modular computer system. It doesn't have to be exotic or super tricked out, it can be as simple as wooden chassis that allows mounting pretty much any motherboard, any drive bays, any cooling system, any PSU. I've done a little research on the notion this afternoon and have discovered that "wall mounted" or "board mounted" computer systems are within vogue or chic of the day's computer fashion.....

thumbs up


wow I had no idea that when you were talking "modular" you meant modular smile
Panason
You can get rid of the VGA monitor, too low res.... go for HDMI ideally since it is the easiest cable to find.
Misk
you gotta take into account the different "versions" of HDMI too from what I understand. I love looking at new computer shit, but HATE shopping for a computer. last computer i bought was a 2015 15 inch macbook pro and that was in 2016. Fuck that "touchbar" noise—i don't want software controlling my function keys!

Doesnt help that studio hardware one may invest may be cutting edge at the time, but, something like my symbolic sound Paca, runs on firewire—now practically a dead technology. chains of adaptors are your friend here.

I'm deep into the mac ecosystem these days, which pisses me off—the last great mac was the aluminum tower mac pro... if i get a desktop i'm going hackintosh—i've got real issues with apple's hardware, and don't get me started on the right to repair... pisses me off that apple solders shit like RAM into their laptop motherboards these days.

MacOS has been going downhill ever since Lion—even removing basic unix commands—windows is still bloatware, and every distro of linux ive run that I dug (mostly arch) pulls me down the rabbit hole of package managers and constantly updating dependancies instead of making music. There's very few good games for macOS, which for my productivity, is a huge plus.

i guess i don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, except that the more into tech i am, the more of a fuckin luddite i become. hihi
kcd06
Quote:
every distro of linux ive run that I dug (mostly arch) pulls me down the rabbit hole of package managers and constantly updating dependancies instead of making music


If you get deeper into configuring linux, you can fold the various missing dependencies into your live build. Alternatively, you can try a dual-boot system (which is dicey given how pissy Microsoft gets about sharing) or a separate hard drive and cold swap that into your system when you want to play with linux.
Panason
Misk wrote:
'm deep into the mac ecosystem these days, which pisses me off—the last great mac was the aluminum tower mac pro... if i get a desktop i'm going hackintosh—i've got real issues with apple's hardware, and don't get me started on the right to repair... pisses me off that apple solders shit like RAM into their laptop motherboards these days.

MacOS has been going downhill ever since Lion—even removing basic unix commands—windows is still bloatware, and every distro of linux ive run that I dug (mostly arch) pulls me down the rabbit hole of package managers and constantly updating dependancies instead of making music. There's very few good games for macOS, which for my productivity, is a huge plus.

i guess i don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, except that the more into tech i am, the more of a fuckin luddite i become.



Basically my story with computers and why I ditched a career involving them.
I now have come to the point where my 2010 Macbook Pro is becoming unusable as a laptop for general computer tasks (too hot , runs out of battery in less than two hours ) and I am dreading having to buy a Windows laptop.... but Mac has gone from being the only choice to being this horrible thing that is keeping me hostage because the alternatives are so awful to work with.
peripatitis
The only sensible way to be with mac is to sell your laptop every year, before the guaranty ends and buy a new one, of course the problem there Is Apple's irrational port decision making..
But it is unbelievable how well the latest generation of mac's sell, regardless their frail hardware construction.
On the other hand machines with an amazing track record (like the thinkpad line) have their price fall downhill from the second you buy them.
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