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Building another computer - Project is GO!
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Author Building another computer - Project is GO!
Rex Coil 7
jsco wrote:
just saw this thread. i've built and spec'd out a lot of PCs in the past few years, and done a ridiculous amount of research into the cooling side of things. feel free to PM me if you run into any questions or problems.
Count on it! Thanks for the gracious offer.

jsco wrote:
first, you've got a decent set of components picked out there, no red flags
Excellent.

jsco wrote:
don't bother with a GPU, the intel onboard video is more than enough for your applications.
HA! I knew it! There are so many .. ~ahem~ "experts" that insist the graphics card will take enough load from the CPU that you'll immediately notice a performance increase ... even with a music computer! I figured that was bullshit ... and glad to hear you agree it is!

jsco wrote:
for a power supply, there are a lot of good brands, all of which will have a few faulty units. EVGA and corsair are popular and reliable, and you can get away with a very low power rating (450W is more than enough, and it's hard to find smaller.)
I've been looking pretty hard at the EVGA 500 B1, 80+ BRONZE 500W Power Supply (3 Year Warranty). The only bad marks it gets is that it does not use Japanese capacitors. I'm not so sure that could be considered a "bad mark", but let's just say it is the only thing reviewers could find to complain about. It's "modular" as well! On eBay it seems to come in under $45.00, same with Amazon best I can tell.

This video guy liked it ....



jsco wrote:
the place i'd upgrade is SSD. an nvme m.2 drive like a samsung 970 evo is more than 10x as fast as the drive you picked out, and you will feel that difference in system responsiveness.
Ten times as fast y'say. Hooo wee ... that's moving right along. Another aspect I like about the M.2 format is that it's one less thing floppin' around on the end of a cable inside the case. And since the power supply you've recommended is modular, that also means one fewer power cable cluttering up the works by using the M.2 ... nice. If you look at the features list picture of the motherboard I bought, you can see that one of the two M.2 slots is blessed with an aluminum heat sink (also sayeth the manual). So going with this Samsung M.2 seems to take advantage of several things and create a generally more well thought out system on the whole.

Here's the 250gb ($74.00 shipped)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-970-EVO-MZ-V7E250BW-SSD-250GB-M-2-228 0-NVMe-PCIe-3-0-TLC-250G/143012461362?epid=26023828100&hash=item214c34 fb32:g:hikAAOSwjrFb60jQ:rk:3:pf:0

The 500gb (the one you suggested) is $99.00 shipped (new, from Bulgaria).

LINK = https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-970-EVO-500GB-NVMe-PCIe-M-2-2280-SSD- MZ-V7E500BW/113433290563

The 500gb shipped from US vendors start at around $124.00 shipped (new).

Also, are both the 250gb and the 500gb ten times faster than the San Disk I selected? Or is it just the 500gb that's so speedy?

I'll be going over chassis fan choices and which CD/DVD drive to go with next entry folks! I'll also provide a few peeks at the air filter system I'll be using. Here's a hint .... it says "Holley" on the chrome plated cover.

Almost done collecting the main bunch of hardware for this beasty! Once that's done (for the most part at least) I'll be posting various case design ideas, and some pictures of mockups .... then we'll be cuttin' some wood, screw-n-glue (or glue-n-screw .. kinda depends .. cuz reasons), and start getting the cabinet put together.

Ok, I'm still up and not in bed so I reckoned I may as well reply to some of your suggestions. Thanks so much, the help is much appreciated. I mean, I only started learning all of this in earnest just a week ago! I think I'm picking up on it pretty quickly ... for the most part anyhow.

pbear :(
jsco
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
jsco wrote:
don't bother with a GPU, the intel onboard video is more than enough for your applications.
HA! I knew it! There are so many .. ~ahem~ "experts" that insist the graphics card will take enough load from the CPU that you'll immediately notice a performance increase ... even with a music computer! I figured that was bullshit ... and glad to hear you agree it is!

yeah, that wisdom was true not too long ago, but modern intel on-board graphics chipsets are pretty darn capable. the thing that would make you consider getting a cheap GPU is if you want to run multiple monitors. (pretty nice for ableton, but easy to upgrade if you decide to do it later.)

*do* remember to leave room for full height PCIe cards in your custom case, just in case. the biggest monster GPU that i know of is 140mm high and 302mm long, so if you leave room for that, anything will fit. smile

Quote:
Also, are both the 250gb and the 500gb ten times faster than the San Disk I selected?

yeah, anything in the 970 EVO family will have basically the same performance. i agree with all your positives about the m.2 drive, they're really great for decluttering. the heatsink is mostly a placebo; those drives just don't get hot enough to affect performance.

actually, for reference, this is true for the entire motherboard. as long as you have the tiniest amount of airflow moving over the board, or an open enough chassis that interior temps don't go crazy, the passive heatsinks on the motherboard will have no problem keeping it all cool. i mean, the heatsinks will be hot, but it's totally within design parameters. (again, this really only becomes an issue to worry about when you start overclocking.)
Rex Coil 7
The Samsung M.2 is selling for $73.89.00 with a "make offer" option - so I've offered $60.00.

The EVGA 500 B1 is selling for $45.98 with a "make offer" option - so I've offered $35.99.

$119.87 full price for both .... $95.99 if they both take my offers.

We'll see shortly!

seriously, i just don't get it
Rex Coil 7
The seller of the Samsung M.2 storage drive is one of"those" types of eBay sellers.

What I mean is, they create an ad that says "X price, or best offer". It was listed at $73.89 or best offer. So I offered $60.00 ... now I figured it would be rejected but I hoped the seller would come back with a counter offer. Nope, just rejected. So I hit him again, this time at $65.00 ... rejected, no counter offer. And again, $70.00 ... rejected, no counter offer. And again, $72.00, rejected without a counter.

If ya duzzint wants ta takes offers ... then why duz yer ad say "or best offer"?

d'oh!

So I just paid the whole banana ($73.89). Some people's children!

I've yet to rec'v a reply on the "$35.99 shipped" offer for the power supply (full price = $39.99 plus $5.99 s/h totaling $45.98). Now you have ~those types~ of sellers as well. The kind of seller than puts in their ads "x price or best offer". But when you make an offer, they just don't reply at all one way or another, no message, no offer rejection, nothing. I tested one of these folks out once ... after several offers that went un-responded to ... I actually offered MORE than the advertised price ... no response. I didn't bother buying the item at all from that one!

And these are eBay members with hundreds, even thousands of transactions in their histories. So it's not like they're gnoobs and don't understand how to work with the system.

CHASSIS FANS: I'm still looking/learning. I may just give up on "the industry" and go my own way .... (wink wink) ....


jsco
Quote:
CHASSIS FANS: I'm still looking/learning. I may just give up on "the industry" and go my own way ....

what are your design goals and constraints here? what are you looking for?

most high performance PC case fans are 120mm or 140mm. "performance" is measured as airflow volume versus noise at a given resistance pressure. most published CFM/noise specs are in free air, non-standardized, and don't mean jack shit when your target application is restricted by obstructions and air filters. in most cases it's more helpful to look at reviews comparing fan performance on a radiator, because that's closer to a real world filter restriction model.

all PC case fans are nominal 12V. all can be speed controlled by lowering the supply voltage; some can also be speed controlled by digital PWM. your motherboard will have at least one PWM-capable header (for the CPU fan), likely more than one, and probably 2-3 more non-PWM headers. it's usually easy to set up a dynamic control profile in the BIOS for the CPU fan based on CPU temperature. (this will probably be the default if you never touch the settings.) for the other fan headers, it's rare to find dynamic control options in the BIOS; these are usually limited to being set at a fixed speed, or not configurable at all. you can always use a little extension cable with an inline resistor (supplied with some fans, esp noctua) reduce speed.

you probably need less airflow than you think for a system with your specs. low airflow is good because (a) quiet, and (b) longer time between filter cleanings.

it's good practice to keep positive case pressure (roughly, more intake fans than exhaust fans) because that keeps the dust accumulation on the intake filters where you want it. negative case pressure means you'll get air infiltration and dust at every little gap in the case.

edit: look at the noctua product list for a general lay of the land. they'll be the best or within say 10-20% of the best performing fans in whatever form factor and flow rate you're looking at. that should give you a sense of what's possible.
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/buying-guide
Rex Coil 7
I've been looking at the Noctua options. That brand seems to come up quite a bit in written reviews/DIY articles and how-to videos.

I've already made a list of various fans, logging dba vs cfm, rpm, PWM-vs-DC control, and a few other specs (price, mounting designs, MTBF, etc..). It's just that there are SO MANY fans out there (brands and such) so it takes someone that has only been involved in building/spec'ing out a computer for about one week to learn which brands/models/designs are best suited. The 200mm fans seem to average around 130cfm at 800rpm or so. DBA seems to average out around 25dba.

Cooler Master Mega Flow 200: 200mm - Sleeve Bearing - 110cfm - 19dba - 30,000 hrs MTBF

Antec BigBoy 200 TriCool:
200mm - Dual Ball Bearing - 800rpm - 3 speed switch - 88/108/134cfm - 30dba - 4pin/LP4 connector -

Thermaltake Pure 20: 200mm - 800rpm - 129.6cfm - 28.2dba - 3pin/4pin connector.

There is clearly more to learn just yet.

I'm not thinking of building a wind tunnel, but I know I do want to use a larger fan that runs slower (as a general design philosophy) ... there's less turbulence, fewer "wing stall issues", less noise, and so on. So larger diameter/less rpm is better than smaller diameter/more revs is what I'm aiming at. It's nothing more than an engineering optimization thing. When you have the opportunity to do better things, you try to take advantage of that opportunity. That's all I am doing here. It's not a "MUST DO!" thing.

So I've started with 200mm x roughly 800rpm models. Then below those on the list comes the 140mm units. Just to illustrate the differences between the most common sizes, here's this image (for those that are curious) ....



I figure using one intake and one exhaust fan would be optimal, but it may not be necessary due to two reasons:

1.) The CPU cooler has it's own fan. I may be able to use that airflow to help direct the heat to an exhaust vent. That said, (along with "2.") I may only require a "draw through exhaust fan" without the need for an intake fan. Just a fan that will pull the heated/warmed air out of the chassis. I mean, all that will occupy that volume is the motherboard, the mass storage HDD, and the CD/DVD drive bay. Then again, if I use an intake fan only, that will serve to create more internal pressure which will help to force any dust/cat hair out of any leaks in the case (around the CD drive bays, the switch panel, the I/O panel, etc). An exhaust-fan-only set up will do just the opposite ... it will create more of a vacuum (negative pressure) inside of the case which will tend to "suck in" any dust/cat hair around leaks in the case. Something to keep in mind, that is certain!

2.) The power supply will be mechanically isolated, inside of it's own sub-compartment in the case. So it will draw in it's own cool air and exhaust it's own hot air, isolated from the main case airflow.

I like the way the power supply uses it's own air supply and gets rid of it's hot air in a completely isolated air flow, just as this one depicts...




(image below) The intake filter will be one of these ..... yes, I'm serious.

It's to be about ten inches in diameter, flows CRAPLOADS of CFM, has easily replaced/easily cleaned filter elements, and is easily adopted to a simple wooden case. We have cats, and since I live in the desert southwest we also have dust, there have been times when I've opened up one of our computers and discovered enough lint and cat hair to build another cat with. The filter will mate right on the flat surface of the case top, no bottom "adapter plate" is required at all. The filter element will seal nicely against the flat top of the case. If these are relied upon to protect $50k racing engines, it should be sufficient for a $600.00 music computer. Air flow will be nearly unrestricted though an element with as much surface area as a ten inch diameter by two inch tall filter.



So perhaps just a single chassis fan mounted directly beneath the intake filter, taking "1" and "2" into account.

I still have more research to do.

However, I could always just do this ....

cool



... I am kidding, of course ...


cookie?!?
jsco
Quote:
The intake filter will be one of these ..... yes, I'm serious.

one thing to keep in mind is that the working pressure range of a case fan is orders of magnitude lower than a combustion engine. "free flowing" means something very different for a car filter than a computer filter. (seriously, try holding various grilles and meshes up in front of a PC fan in free air. they'll slow down at the barest hint of a restriction.) even with all the folded surface area, there's no guarantee that that filter wouldn't choke a PC fan. that said... you're only using one fan, and you'll be running it at pretty low speed, and your ventilation requirements are low, so i think you should be fine.

Quote:
The power supply will be mechanically isolated, inside of it's own sub-compartment in the case. So it will draw in it's own cool air and exhaust it's own hot air, isolated from the main case airflow.

don't forget that this will need a cleanable intake filter as well.
Rex Coil 7
jsco wrote:
Quote:
The intake filter will be one of these ..... yes, I'm serious.

one thing to keep in mind is that the working pressure range of a case fan is orders of magnitude lower than a combustion engine. "free flowing" means something very different for a car filter than a computer filter. (seriously, try holding various grilles and meshes up in front of a PC fan in free air. they'll slow down at the barest hint of a restriction.) even with all the folded surface area, there's no guarantee that that filter wouldn't choke a PC fan. that said... you're only using one fan, and you'll be running it at pretty low speed, and your ventilation requirements are low, so i think you should be fine.

Quote:
The power supply will be mechanically isolated, inside of it's own sub-compartment in the case. So it will draw in it's own cool air and exhaust it's own hot air, isolated from the main case airflow.

don't forget that this will need a cleanable intake filter as well.
Good advise all the way around. Thank you.

nodnod
Rex Coil 7
Interesting video ... uh ... that is if you're a computer noggin or someone like me taking the crash course so I can make solid choices about what to do with my money as I build my new computer.

What this video essentially does is completely validate the information given to me by Member *jsco regarding dumping the 2.5" SATA3 SSD drive and going with an NVME M.2 drive (aka "SATA3 x4").

In this video the fella explains that NVME M.2 drives provide roughly 4x the data transfer speeds of the SATA3 drive. But the specs of the ASUS Prime Z370-A board say it's transfer speeds are actually 3.2gbps (gigabytes per second) ... that's not 4x the speed .... that's 5.82x the speed! SATA3 is about 550mbs (megabytes per second) ... 4x that is about 2,200mbs (2.2gbs). This ASUS board specs at 3,200mbs (3.2gbs) on the NVME M.2 drive sockets.

** SATA3 = 550mbs.
** NVME M.2 = 2,200mbs.
** ASUS NVME M.2 = 3,200mbs.

I'll take it!

Keep in mind this video was produced almost two years ago (Jan 2017) ... which may account for the improved performance of the ASUS motherboard I have.

My board has TWO M.2 slots, one will accept both SATA3 and M.2 NVME drives, the other slot only accepts the M.2 NVME drives.





If there is any downside to all of this modern stuff and NVME M.2 tech (at least the Samsung drive I bought) it's that it uses "TLC" storage technology ("Triple Level Cell"). While excellent for cramming craploads of data into a little tiny circuit board looking thing, it's also the type of storage tech that has a lower life expectancy than some others. Keep in mind this video was produced in March of 2017 ... things may have changed by now.

Allow my friend here with the Beetles haircut explain more thoroughly what this means. This video is very interesting, it goes over this storage tech and also how to make your drives live longer ...

adam
using the nvme for your os and another ssd for your files is probably reasonable
Rex Coil 7
CONTROLLERS - SOFTWARE DEAL - IT ALL FITS!

So these arrived. I worked a deal for the Push1 for $183.00, and I worked another deal on a brand new Akai APC40MkII from an authorized dealer for $250.00 shipped.




Just a few minutes ago I sewed up a negotiation for Ableton Live 9 Suite for $199.00. That one took almost three days to work out with the seller. But I got him to go for it. It didn't sell on his first try at it, so he relisted it. I reminded him about my offer when I saw that it didn't sell the first time around, so we agree that at a given moment he'd change the ad to "buy it now" for the negotiated price. The moment I saw the change (after numerous and repeated clicks on the refresh screen button) I snagged that sucker!

He refunded the shipping to me since I don't require the disks or the books, I've already downloaded Live 9.7.7 Suite and the entire Live 9 manual (all 611 pages of it) ... so all I needed were the licenses. I just rec'd the notification from Ableton regarding the change of registered owners (I am now the owner of record of the Live9 Suite license). For $199.00.





In an hour or so I'll pay for the Intel i7-8700 CPU, the EGVA 500 watt power supply, and Windows 10 home ... all from the same supplier (not on eBay).

After today, all that's left is the CD/DVD drive, a fan or two (Noctua fans most likely), and some incidental items (screws, wood, etc..)

Movin' along!

And it all fits on my synth tables! you can measure things, take piles of notes, make diagrams ... what ever! But you never really know how things will work out until you actually have them and you put them into place. I was sweatin' it! It all didn't fit at first which forced me to rethink the setup, but that turned out to be a GOOD thing in the end. So here's a little peek at how it's to be set up.







Here is the Euro cab, I'm still working out the arrangement of the modules. It's ~roughly~ 380HP with everything loaded into it.





And here's the 5U Modular "The Super Mini Modular" (aka "Super") partially filled out. Just another one of your everyday 4 VCO/2VCF fully normalized performance synths in a handbuilt cabinet with fully blown bus bar power distribution system with custom designed modules in custom designed panels, controlled by a customized FATAR TP/9S five octave keybed with solid walnut sides and top, dual ribbon controllers, and a joystick. Y'know, nuttin special.











Rex Coil 7
CASE TOOLS - CASE BUILDING DEMO - MIDI FIGHTERS - ALMOST ALL THE PARTS:

In this entry, I'll go over the list of goodies that's nearly complete, a couple of controllers, a nice tool used for making cabinets, and a demonstration validating the use of a wooden DIY computer case.

MIDI Fighters controllers: The one with the lit-up knobs is called the "Twister", and the one with the arcade buttons is called the "3D". Both use a proprietary software program to set up all of their functions and assignments, the program is free of charge and available at "DJTech Tools".

3D SOFTWARE LINK = https://techtools.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202165074-Midi-Fighter -3D-Set-Up-Instructions

Twister SOFTWARE LINK = https://techtools.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/200468434-Midi-Fighter -Twister

Now, there is SO BLOODY MUCH INFOS on setting up, using, tweeking, futzing with either of these two controllers (whether it be stand alone, with Tractor/Ableton) that you could nearly drown in the data. Heaps and great piles of videos ... documents ... forum entries ... more! I've got a total of $350.00 invested in this pair of controllers. I took advantage of a Christmas promotional sale when I bought the Twister (10% off and free 2-day shipping), and I bought the 3D used from a nice fella in Canadia for $150.00 shipped. Seein's how the Twister wears many hats (controller, sequencer, MIDI CC controller for MIDI synths such as the Nord Micro modular ... more!) and that the 3D is another man of many trades, I feel that $350.00 for all the capability the two of them offer was nearly criminal.

They ~feel~ fantastic! They are covered in a sortof rubbery material, even the knobs themselves on the Twister are "rubber" covered. And although the pots are infinite spin (360 degree), they feel like high end potentiometers ... not like funky/floppy/wobbly encoders ... AT ALL. The arcade buttons used on the 3D have a Five Million Cycle MTBF .... five million cycles!! Like the Twister, the 3D is also covered in that same sortof ~rubberish~ material. It reminds me of what the Ableton Push1 of mine feels like, it too has that rubbery covering/coating on it just like the MIDI Fighters stuff does.

Do they work? I have no idea. Remember, the computer needs to be built yet! Here they are, these are the very two that I purchased:




KREG TOOL: The Kreg Tool line of cabinet making gadgets has proved itself to cabinet/drawer/woodworkers time and again over the last several years. I got this "starter kit" for Christmas from my attentive wife. This setup should prove to be very useful when it comes time to fabricate the cabinet/box for this computer project. If you've never heard of Kreg Tool cabinet making tooling, just run a search on the mighty mighty Tou Yube and have a look! It's a fantastic and highly cost effective tool that pretty much any garage or DIY builder's shop should put down on their "must have" list. It's one of the easiest and simplest ways to build cabinetry that I've ever seen.



DIY COMPUTER CASE MADE OF WOOD: I'm sure there are plenty of folks that have read about my intentions to construct my own wooden computer case and have thought "he's fooking out of his friggin mind!". Well, they'd be correct about that ... I am out of my friggin mind. Always have been. I go far out of my way to avoid the overly well pounded path that the average mainstream follower walks upon ... I find the less traveled paths far more exciting. Why take the main roads that the average people follow? We already know precisely where those roads lead, and exactly what the scenery is along the way.

But on this particular project, my choice to build a wooden computer cabinet suits MANY needs I have, and I feel these choices will provide me with all of the capabilities I require .... with the freedom to choose changes, modifications, and ideas of any types I want.

This video provides a bit of a look into what freedoms are available, as well as debunking all of the naysayer's concerns along the way. It's well worth the fourteen minutes it takes to view it. Be sure to watch it all the way to the very end, the producer of the video adds some extremely important information so be sure to see the entire thing!



PARTS IS PARTS .... PARTS IS IN!: Nearly all of the items on my parts list are purchased and have arrived. All I'll need is a pair of 120mm fans (both used as "pusher" fans to blow air into the box), the OS software, and a few other little trinkets from the hardware store. Also yet to add is an external USB3 CD/DVD drive (about $25.00), and a USB3-to-SATA3 SSD connection pigtail to allow connection of standard SATA3 SSD drives used as external backup means. Both the CD/DVD and the external SSD setups will be stored in a very safe case along with storage medium so the entire "kit" is kept clean and safe. I'll be using either the CD/DVD or the external SSD so infrequently that having them as external setups just makes sense. Fewer things to deal with when making the cabinet, less complexity, lower internal parts count (less parts means greater reliability), and less internal heat.

I ended up going with the Intel i7-8700 CPU (6 cores, 12 threads, 3.2ghz). And after a lot of deliberating (and driving other members completely nuts with my questions) I decided to go with one 240GB M.2 NVME x4 SSD (for the OS and DAW) and a 1TB 7200 rpm SATA3 HDD (for sample libraries and created content). I also ended up going with the EVGA 500 watt Bronze 80 power supply.

Everything seen in the picture below, plus the ASUS Prime Z370-A motherboard came to an end total of just a couple of dollars under $800.00 bucks.

* ASUS Prime Z370-A motherboard.
* Intel i7-8700 8th gen 3.2ghz CPU (6 cores, 12 threads).
* Corsair "2x8" 16GB 3000mhz DDR4 ram kit.
* Samsung 240GB M.2 NVME x4 SSD.
* Toshiba 1TB 7200 rpm SATA3 HDD.
* EVGA 500 watt Bronze 80 power supply.
* Cooler Master Hyper 212 CPU cooler.



2 FANS? - THAT PUSH AIR? - WAIT, WHUT? ... let me explain the whole "pusher" thing. If you use fan(s) to sortof "inflate" the case by blowing air into it, doing so pressurizes the case to a small degree. That means a little air will be blowing out of various seams and holes in the case (as well as the intentionally cut exhaust holes). This pressurized air expelling from those various seams/holes/gaps prevent any dust/lint/cat fur from getting into those small holes in the case. There's a constant flow of air gently blowing out of those leaking holes and seams any time the computer is powered up.

Now, if instead I were to use a pair of fans to blow air out of exhaust ports (large-ish holes cut into the case) and drawing cool air into the case via intake air holes, that would create a small bit of vacuum ... suction ... inside of the case. That method would create air being sucked into those seams and holes, drawing in lint, dust, cat fur into the computer case.

So if I put two fans right over a hole or pair of holes that blow air into the cabinet, they will be "inflating" the cabinet. If I put two fans right over a hole or pair of holes that blow air OUT of the cabinet, they will be "deflating" the cabinet. "Inflating" the cabinet will blow crud away from any leaks. "Deflating" the cabinet will suck crud into any leaks.

The best of the two methods is very obvious.

So I'll be placing a pair of 120mm fans just inside of the intake holes in the cabinet, drawing air through an air filter, and inflating the cab. Exhaust air will blow out of a few holes cut into the cabinet, strategically placed to create a flow across the motherboard before it exhausts the case.

WHY TWO 120mm FANS INSTEAD OF ONE 200mm FAN?: Simple, if the single 200mm fan quits, there is no air flow moving through the case. If one of the two 120mm fans quits running, there is reduced flow .... but there is still flow. And, two 120mm fans will flow more CFM ("volume") of air than one 200mm fan. I know I touted the use of a single 200mm fan previously, but after thinking about it, using two 120mm fans makes more sense. And not only that, but there is a far larger selection of 120mm fans than there are 200mm fans. So there we are.

Ok ... so pretty soon I'll be doing mockups of various layouts of the mounting locations for the motherboard, HDD, and power supply. That's all of it folks ... just those three things will be all that is actually mounted in the cabinet. The power supply will also be inside of the cabinet, however it will be isolated inside of it's own compartment so it will draw in it's own cooling air, and expel it's own exhaust/hot air from it's own intake ports. But the main compartment will only have two components .... motherboard and HDD. That is just SO COOL!!

The intake fans (the dual 120mm fans) will be mounted to the lid or to one of the sides. And automotive air filter will be mounted directly outside of the intake fans. Contrary to the belief of some folks, a twelve inch diameter by two (or even three) inch tall circular automotive "high performance" air filter will not starve the computer case for air flow. Air filters work exactly like resistors placed in parallel. Think of each tiny hole in the air filter as if it were a 10k resistor. Now, as more 10k resistors (more tiny holes in the air filter) are added in parallel with one another, the more current (air molecules) flow through the filter (resistors) without resistance.

The larger the air filter, the greater the number of holes the air has to flow through the filter, and the less resistance to flow the molecules of air are met with. This is NO different than placing resistors in parallel. The greater number of resistors placed in parallel with one another, the more the total resistance goes DOWN. In either example, "resistance is resistance" ... whether it be resistance to the flow of air molecules, or resistance to the flow of current. The concept is exactly the same in either situation.

SO .... the larger the air filter (many free flowing holes for air to flow through) the less resistance to flow the fans will be met with. And the greater the overall volume of air that will freely flow through the cabinet.

In short, I'm not worried about it one iota. If it turns out that a single 12 inch diameter x 2 inch tall filter restricts the air flow too much, I'll simply add a second 12x2 air filter ... placing one 120mm fan beneath each filter.

Done deal.

One other solution is to simply stack a second air filter element on top of the 12x2 filter ... effectively making the total filter size 12x4 (doubling it's air flow). When I used to play around with racing in the Baja desert, it was nearly common practice to run AT LEAST two filters stacked up on one another. A bead of silicone sealant between the two filter mating surfaces prevented and "Baja Moon dust" from sneaking past the small gap between the two filters, thereby ruining a $40k engine and losing compression (from dust wearing out the piston rings and pistons themselves) and reducing power output .... and losing the race!

This concludes this entry of the ~ahem~ ... "Racing Computer Project Thread".

lol lol

More to come! Soon enough!

L8R SK8Rs!!

cookie?!?
cretaceousear
Those controllers look cool. Ever since getting a MIDI keyboard with lots of controllers I've been thinking about the new device some company needs to make.
My idea is the panel all those knobs are mounted on should be a tablet screen - with holes punched through the screen and glass for the knob shafts.
The point being you can get nice text labels which show up under each knob so you can read what it does.
Then every manufacturer of VST plug ins makes a 16 knob display template/skin.
It can be stepped for when more than 16 knobs are needed.
They can add logos and colour styling in the spaces around it.
It might work better as 12 knobs with six sliders (though rotary encoder knobs reset out of the box, but sliders don't unless motorised hmmm..... ).
I think it's a great idea and relatively simple - that is if it's practical to punch holes in display material.
Why haven't Arturia or Behringer come up with one?
Rex Coil 7
cretaceousear wrote:
Those controllers look cool. Ever since getting a MIDI keyboard with lots of controllers I've been thinking about the new device some company needs to make.
My idea is the panel all those knobs are mounted on should be a tablet screen - with holes punched through the screen and glass for the knob shafts.
The point being you can get nice text labels which show up under each knob so you can read what it does.
Then every manufacturer of VST plug ins makes a 16 knob display template/skin.
It can be stepped for when more than 16 knobs are needed.
They can add logos and colour styling in the spaces around it.
It might work better as 12 knobs with six sliders (though rotary encoder knobs reset out of the box, but sliders don't unless motorised hmmm..... ).
I think it's a great idea and relatively simple - that is if it's practical to punch holes in display material.
Why haven't Arturia or Behringer come up with one?
Actually, Arturia HAS come up with one. More than one. I bought my wife one of Arturia's newest 49 key controller kybds ("Keylab MkII"). There are nine sliders, with two banks ("18" sliders). There are also two banks of rotary knobs, and two banks of buttons. Move any one of them, and whatever you've assigned it to shows up on the decently sized LCD screen. It displays the control's assignment, how much you've moved it, and so on.

You may also set up your own templates, and save templates with whatever naming convention you wish to use.

And if you were to use sliders, instead of using mechanical sliders it would be better to use those ribbon controller type "sliders" that have an LED position marker on one side of the "slider". The Akai Pro Max series kybd controllers had those .....

LINK = https://www.smartdj.com/images/D/Akai-Professional-MAX49-Built-in-Step -Sequencer-USB-MIDI-Keyboard-Controller-detailed-image-2.png

Those types of "sliders" are actually far more useful than a mechanical type slider pot. They can easily be configured as "zero center" (like the way a pitch wheel operates) or as a full length control (like a mod wheel). Either one may be configured to snap-back to zero when you lift your finger, or they may be configured to remain in place when you lift your finger. They can also be "tapped" or "touched" to have the signal jump immediately to the point where you tapped or touched the slider, a mechanical slider must be "slid" all the way up or down to a given position. So you see, those "ribbon type" (or whatever they are called ... "touch sliders" maybe?) are far more capable than a silly old mechanical slider! No moving parts to wear out or become dirty/scratchy either!


MIDI Fighters "Twister": The configuration program allows you to color code each knob based on functions, "page", and so on. So the trick would be to come up with your own set of identifying conventions, and learn how to "read" your own color coding conventions. Taking easily read notes would prove very helpful as well.

These two videos will give you a great sense of how you can put the Twister and it's configuration software to best use. Get your coffee, get comfortable, sit back, keep the mouse cursor close to the ~pause~ button and keep a notepad and pencil at the ready. Great stuff here!:







The way I'll be using the Twister with my Nord Micro Modular is I'll make each knob "hard assigned" to given MIDI CC assignments. Then, I'll take it for granted that every knob is "hard assigned" to various CC numbers. As I create various patches within the Nord Micro Modular, I'll already know that I have this one "hard list" of controllers that are attached to certain CC numbers. At which point, I'll always assign (let's say) filter cutoff to MIDI CC 25 (that's just an example for description's sake). So I'll model any patches I create around that "hard list" of controller numbers based on how I've decided to ALWAYS ALWAYS configure the Twister itself.

In other words, I'll make the patch fit the controller, not the other way around.

Another example of this might be that I'll always assign envelope generator controls of the Nord to the Twister knobs that are on the "blue knobs" page of the Twister's four pages of controllers. So if I want to mess with an envelope setting in a Nord patch, I already know that all envelope settings are accessed when the Twister is set to the page where all of the knob LED rings are colored blue.

So the idea is to set up a "hard list" of what the sixty four knobs eek! eek! are to be assigned to (when speaking of MIDI CC assignments) ... then set up any given patches or presets you may be working with to conform to that "hard list" of knob configurations.

Doing something along these lines eliminates the need for sticky labels near each knob, or any other type of labeling. Use the page number and knob color as the assignment, and then create your devices/presets/patches so they conform to those knob coloring conventions you have set up yourself.

Easy peasy!

Watch the videos, especially the first one, since that fella goes over setting up the knobs/rings and pages using the color coding feature offered by the configuration program (which is a free of charge download).

thumbs up
cretaceousear
Ah.. well I've got a Nektar keyboard with a load of sliders and controllers.. a smaller display but similar to that Arturia.

Im thinking a tablet like an iPad, but with knobs permanently punch mounted through the screen - so when you choose the Uhe Zebra synth in your DAW, for example, the screen changes to match the VST graphics and the knobs all get auto assigned.

My Nektar has a quick way to assign knobs but it's a pain - and then you come back two weeks later without a clue what you set up. If each knob showed the function name below it would all be so much easier.

Now I hadn't seen those Akai style sliders before - brilliant.
Realistically I don't think there can be enough standardisation for my magic controller idea to work!
lilakmonoke
the low noise cooling part is something i figured out for my linux system:

- get a really large overspeced passive heatsink cpu cooler like this:



- get or build a case that can generate a vertical convection flow, sort of like a chimney - so the air can flow in under the case and out on top ie. many commercial cases can be openend up like that.

- then use a low rpm case fan on top of the cpu cooler, NOT a high rpm cpu fan = no noise

im running an i5 processor with this setup and at 90% load its at 50 degrees c.
Joe.
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

KREG TOOL: The Kreg Tool line of cabinet making gadgets has proved itself to cabinet/drawer/woodworkers time and again over the last several years.


Those are really popular in the DIY section, in Case building threads, it can help you avoid visible screw heads on the outside of your case thumbs up
Rex Coil 7
lilakmonoke wrote:
the low noise cooling part is something i figured out for my linux system:

- get a really large overspeced passive heatsink cpu cooler like this:



- get or build a case that can generate a vertical convection flow, sort of like a chimney - so the air can flow in under the case and out on top ie. many commercial cases can be openend up like that.

- then use a low rpm case fan on top of the cpu cooler, NOT a high rpm cpu fan = no noise

im running an i5 processor with this setup and at 90% load its at 50 degrees c.
Good suggestions (the CPU cooler you depicted uses a Noctua fan, btw). I already discussed the advantages of a slow/large fan elsewhere in the thread. However, in my situation I'm not concerned about fan noise. I don't use microphones, and since we live in a desert region we almost always have fans running anyhow.

The loose plan is having two 120mm fans pushing in cool air into the case directed toward the motherboard. Warm air will exhaust though a few ports made with a 2 inch hole saw. Intake air will be filtered (an absolute must, we have three cats as well as lint that gets into things because our home is 100% carpeted). Exhaust air will have filters made of 3M Scotchbrite pads to prevent anything from just floating in when the intake fans are not running ("computer off" condition). The motherboard will be mounted horizontally, on standoff roughly an inch or so above the bottom deck of the case. The CPU cooler has a fan mounted on it. The power supply will be mounted within it's own "sub-compartment" in the case, so it's in/out air flow is isolated from the main compartment. The only things that will be mounted in the main compartment are the motherboard, a 1TB hard drive, and the two 120mm chassis fans.

Other than little "trinkets" all I've yet to purchase are the two case fans and a brand new copy of Win10. I'll buy Win10 when I'm ready to load the OS. So I'm just needing to make a choice on the 120mm chassis fans and buy them so I can begin construction of the case. OH WAIT! ... I still need to obtain the main intake air filter as well.

* Chassis fans will cost no more than $30.00 or so for the pair.

* Intake air filter setup will cost about $30.00 ~roughly~.

* Win10 Home is $120.00 or so.

* External USB2 CD/DVD drive is about $30.00 bucks.

* External USB2 SSD pigtail adapter is less than $20.00.

*** So no more than another $250.00 to complete this beasty.


Joe. wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

KREG TOOL: The Kreg Tool line of cabinet making gadgets has proved itself to cabinet/drawer/woodworkers time and again over the last several years.


Those are really popular in the DIY section, in Case building threads, it can help you avoid visible screw heads on the outside of your case thumbs up
Yes, very true. They pretty much make short work of building nearly anything that requires joining two pieces of wood together.

cool
Eric the Red
If you still have a local Barnes & Noble... check out this magazine. https://subscribe.custompc.co.uk
hippasus
@Rex Coil 7 it will be great to know how this very interesting project ended up. Do you mind to post some pics of the outcome?
Rex Coil 7
hippasus wrote:
@Rex Coil 7 it will be great to know how this very interesting project ended up. Do you mind to post some pics of the outcome?
It's not done yet, I've completed the gathering of part/pieces just last week. I'll be posting an update sometime today or this evening.

Thanks for the interest!!

cookie?!?
Catmantis
just bought this motherboard model M3215U-6C anyone here using this same model?

here is the specs https://www.eagle-touch.com/industrial-mainboards/m3215u-6c/

Rex Coil 7
Catmantis wrote:
just bought this motherboard model M3215U-6C anyone here using this same model?

here is the specs https://www.eagle-touch.com/industrial-mainboards/m3215u-6c/

First off ... Welcome Home Member *Catmantis .... thumbs up

Secondly, this thread is a project thread for my own computer project. You'll get far more answers/help if you post your question(s) regarding your motherboard in your own thread. I understand that you can't start your own thread until you build up a few posts. So I guess the obvious action would be to ... y'know .. make a few posts!

lol
Phitar
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
hippasus wrote:
@Rex Coil 7 it will be great to know how this very interesting project ended up. Do you mind to post some pics of the outcome?
It's not done yet, I've completed the gathering of part/pieces just last week. I'll be posting an update sometime today or this evening.

Thanks for the interest!!

cookie?!?


Any updates Rex? Been watching this thread for a while now with much interest. How you doing?
Rex Coil 7
Phitar wrote:
Any updates Rex? Been watching this thread for a while now with much interest. How you doing?
I've rec'd a lot more of the components (four 1TB HDDs, quick change drive rack, six fans, the intake air filters, the RME audio interface card, and more). So other than the wood for the case, and little wires/cables etc it's all here. I've been going through changes in the Rx I take for my neck injury over the last three months that has set me back on pretty much making/building things until my body adjusts to the new enzymes produced (heavy headaches, major nausea, eye focusing problems, and ~shakey~ hands along with sleep period disturbances). Ramping one chemical down while ramping a different Rx/chemical up. It takes time, it sucks, but this too will pass!!

It WILL get better, and I WILL be back at the builder's bench soon! Every day is a little better than the day before. But I'll tell ya ... it's been a certified bitch getting through these prescription changes. After being on opiate pain meds 24/7/365 for over twelve straight years, I told my Dr. "screw this crap! .... I want OFF of this garbage!!" So in February we started the new program. It IS working ... but it takes time. The nightmares are friggin horrible (chemical changes create them) but as I said each new day is better than the day before. I've broken over two dozen bones in my life, been shot, spent two weeks in the hospital with kidney failure (damned kidney stones!!), survived the largest race riot is US history as a first responder (L.A. 1992) .... I got through all of that .... I'll get through this as well!!!!!

One other challenge is May 29th of each year ... my partner was assassinated on May 29th 1992 (shot 5x in the back, and 1x in the back of the head .. he never got the chance to see his murderer or even draw his gun to defend himself). First documented murder of a first responder by MS13 in California on record. The anniversary of that day is always rough on me ... but I'll get through that as well. T-minus two more days and then it's over until next year.

waah Hug We all have our own rock we carry up the hill ... I'm no different.

I'm really itchin' to get back at "doin' my thing" ... getting this computer built, my 5U modular finished, the Euro modulation cab finished, the slide guitar project done ... on and on. I do little bits of things each day, so it's not like I'm idle and not doing anything at all. So I hope to be well enough within the next few weeks to actually get back to spending hours at a time building my toys.

Banzai dammit!!!! headbang Checkered Flag Checkered Flag Checkered Flag
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