Klark Teknik 76-KT (Behringer 1176 clone)

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tioJim
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Klark Teknik 76-KT (Behringer 1176 clone)

Post by tioJim » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:28 am

So this is interesting

http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Kl ... KT/p/P0BR3

A Urei 1176 clone from Klark Teknik (Behringer) with MIDAS (Behringer) transformers for £180. Available January.

Originals, re-issues and kits are all very expensive (despite it being a relatively simple design).

They're cloning the LA2A as well

http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Kl ... 2A/p/P0CEA

And Pultec style EQ

http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Kl ... KT/p/P0BR4

I'm curious

1) To see if they're any good/comparable to the originals
2) Whether everyone will start frothing at the mouth over it because it's Behringer copying stuff
3) Whether there'll be less frothing because they're not synths and they're labeled 'Klark Teknik' not 'Behringer'

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Post by Panason » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:08 am

At least some frothing is guaranteed.

There are also teasers of eurorack (beurorack?) modules and this:
Want to design amazing synthesizers?

We are looking for several passionate and talented digital hardware, FPGA and software engineers for our world-class synthesizer teams in the UK and Germany.

Send us your CV with your email address if you are interested to turn the synth world upside down:-)

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Sanys
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Post by Sanys » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:01 am

there's big thread on gs. people seem to love it

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tIB
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Post by tIB » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:03 am

These have been out for a while in the states and have had fairly positive feedback from the likes of gearslutz - worth noting the date keeps going back on when they are expected here : I'm yet to see them in stock in well over a year of sharking. Up until last week the eq was due in November but it's fallen back again.

I'll be pulling the trigger when shops have stock...

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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT (Behringer 1176 clone)

Post by SmartBits » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:00 am

tioJim wrote:They're cloning the LA2A as well
Got mine in the mail today, curious to hear how it sounds. This one was a bit more expensive than the KT-76 and EQP-KT (€300,- vs €200,-). So I only bought one of these and two KT-76 + two EQP-KT's. Couldn't resist... :hihi:

According to Music House, where I bought them, the KT-76 should be in by end of November and the EQP-KT by beginning of December. They were accurate on the delivery schedule of the KT-2A.

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Post by calaveras » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:21 am

Interesting? More like disgusting. All Behringer does is rip off other companies instead of doing any R&D themselves. It's quite easy to put out cheap products when your manufacturing is based in China and your aren't paying for the development of products, just xeroxing them.

I was pretty ambivalent about the Behringer rip off thing until I heard about them trying to snatch up the Oberheim trademark. Screw those scumbags.

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Post by Chopper » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:34 am

i've never seen a Behringer thread not turning into a bitchfest before 10 posts....

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Post by franktropez » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:34 pm

Perhaps a thread can be devoted where people can argue about the ethical and moral implications of behringer's business practices?
I'm ambiguous about it all but it does get incredibly boring and tiring seeing every thread about the b's products devolve into the same argument making it harder to dig out actual information and people's experiences with the actual gear.

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Post by calaveras » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:57 pm

Well they are a remorseless, dishonorable company.
People were blowing gaskets about a Blue Lantern modular product not too long ago. And that wasn't even trying to usurp another companies market share the way that Behringer does.

To divorce the business practices of Behringer from their products is to say you are okay with those practices.

Frankly I was once a real firebrand about the whole Behringer just rips other companies designs off thing for a while. Then I just kind of got used to the fact Behringer is everywhere. But the whole trying to steal the trademark out from under 82 year old Tom Oberheim re-ignited my antipathy.

I'm not cool with the idea of contemporary companies resurrecting moribund brands (as Guitar Center did with Deltalabs). But when its a brand like Oberheim which is someone's actual surname. And this person is still drawing breath, and in business under that name? Well it's chicken fried bullshit. Battered and tasty on the outisde, but still nasty excrement at the core.

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Post by AdamJay » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:57 pm

Sweetwater has them in stock, for US customers.

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Post by keninverse » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:43 pm

I've played with the EQP-KT and have some experience with a vintage EQP1A and the drip clone. The KT sounded great for the price. I mean really good. Opening it up the tubes were bugera so those were immediately taken out and replaced with NOS Sylvanias and Philips that I had on the shelf which helped out more. I think they cut costs by removing the interstage transformer and tube rectifier which does change the sound and they also used a switcher to power the rack.

If you're looking for color the KT is great but if I had the money I would look at the warm audio or drip clone. I never played with all of these side by side but to my ears the drip and vintage was much more smoother in low frequencies but this is all anecdotal though and I really don't have data to back it up.

Also I'm not a fan of the B-word either. Someone brought this one in for me to take a look at and hasn't picked it up. But based purely on sound and no other factors I'd be hard pressed to say that I'm not impressed given that street price.

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Post by tioJim » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:23 am

franktropez wrote:Perhaps a thread can be devoted where people can argue about the ethical and moral implications of behringer's business practices?
It could have its own sub-forum :lol:
Last edited by tioJim on Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by tioJim » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:26 am

keninverse wrote:Opening it up the tubes were bugera so those were immediately taken out and replaced with NOS Sylvanias and Philips ... I think they cut costs by removing the interstage transformer and tube rectifier which does change the sound and they also used a switcher to power the rack
That does seem to defeat the purpose a bit, to clone something at a lower price point but make significant compromises to get there

Something like an 1176 (and the others) is so specific that I imagine most people want THAT sound not ALMOST that sound

Though you seem to be saying it's close enough

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Post by Muzone » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:08 am

franktropez wrote:Perhaps a thread can be devoted where people can argue about the ethical and moral implications of behringer's business practices?
I'm ambiguous about it all but it does get incredibly boring and tiring seeing every thread about the b's products devolve into the same argument making it harder to dig out actual information and people's experiences with the actual gear.
As it's the usual butthurt posters saying the same old thing you soon get to know who to add to your "ignore list" then the threads stay nicely on topic :)

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Post by keninverse » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:11 am

tioJim wrote: That does seem to defeat the purpose a bit, to clone something at a lower price point but make significant compromises to get there

Something like an 1176 (and the others) is so specific that I imagine most people want THAT sound not ALMOST that sound

Though you seem to be saying it's close enough
I have my own views of the company and trying to just state an objective assessment. It's $300 and sounds great...a true clone with sowters and original HS56 will run about $2-4k and a reconditioned vintage around $5k. It's hard to just say anything bad about it given the price. Correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm not even sure that KT markets it as a clone.

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Post by Richjk7 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:03 pm

Blacklion makes 1176 clone called the Seventeen with added features.

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Post by tioJim » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:33 pm

keninverse wrote:
tioJim wrote: That does seem to defeat the purpose a bit, to clone something at a lower price point but make significant compromises to get there

Something like an 1176 (and the others) is so specific that I imagine most people want THAT sound not ALMOST that sound

Though you seem to be saying it's close enough
I have my own views of the company and trying to just state an objective assessment. It's $300 and sounds great...a true clone with sowters and original HS56 will run about $2-4k and a reconditioned vintage around $5k. It's hard to just say anything bad about it given the price. Correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm not even sure that KT markets it as a clone.
No they don't, fair point, though it looks near identical which was a choice not a necessity!

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Post by calaveras » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:06 pm

we could also start subforums for people who believe that cause and effect are the basis for the universe, and another for those that ascribe to a steady state universe where nothing that they do has any affect on the universe in the long term.

I tend to the former, so I am circumspect about my actions. Up to and including diet, and what I do with my wallet. I spend my money with those who I want to see flourish, not those who give me the best price.

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Post by Michael O. » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:30 pm

These things are not the greatest in my limited experience with one. Never checked out the internals; does it use a t-pad like an 1176 or just a regular pot? That, the amplification circuitry as a whole, and the o12+the other transformer are a huge part of the original 1176’s (blue face through to rev D) sound

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Post by Funkydroid » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:15 pm

Interesting indeed. Gonna head to GS to read more as there doesn't seem to be much of them in wigglers hands yet. Nice to see them introducing the fair price for these clones, always though Warm Audio were overpriced. Basically same chinese "philosophy", why not price it accordingly then? :hihi:

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Post by globalwm » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:25 pm

Chopper wrote:i've never seen a Behringer thread not turning into a bitchfest before 10 posts....
Was thinking the same thing! Then each reply it started to slide down the slippery hill.... It's getting that no one can post about Behringer anymore. It's become a subject like politics.

Sweetwater has a nice 1176 comparison at:
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/spirit-of-the-76/

"The 1176-KT can be described as quite bright compared to the 1176LN, though its more aggressive ratios above 4:1 still produce some very vibey sounds. It’s definitely a great way to figure out if 1176-style FET compression is what your studio needs without breaking the bank."

All three units mentioned at the beginning of this thread get great reviews... - especially the EQ.

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Post by nectarios » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:04 am

Got the 76-KT.
In the begining there was some hum and I thought, well cheap stuff get's you stuff like this, but then I realized I had the insert cable running behind and close to the back of my active monitors (duh!) so I moved the unit to a "safer" place for the cable and voila! Hum was completely gone...I mean full input gain, output at 3/4 on the KT-76 before hiss started appearing, monitors well loud too...so needless to say the unit is "quiet".

I've played with the UA 1176 a friend has. He has two but one of them needs service...I am trying to get him to either let me borrow one (heh) or just go over at his and put them side by side so I can compare it to the real thing.

So, the compressor sounds very nice when pushed...doing the same on plug ins (Pro-C2, Glue Compressor, etc) makes the sound sound rather "meh" and pushing it even further (-10dB GR...and more), still sounds rather ok...meaning that the sound does not get destroyed completely like it does on plugs.

I was of the assumption that since this is a FET compressor, the fastest attack would be faster than what it is. So yeah in the case where *very* fast attack is required, plug ins get the win.
Also, especially on bass heavy material, using very fast release, there is a distortion, nasty one at that...probably because of the "enveloping" of a faster releasing time, than the phase cycle time of the lowest frequency present in the signal...so I am led to believe that there is not hidden "hold" circuit inside to prevent that...but I could be wrong of course.

I am using it to track stuff...just smoothly tame the dynamics of loud passages of synth sweeps and when recording vocals of course.
Its not the most transparent compressor for sure...you can dial in more transparent settings, but when it works "properly" you can hear it..but is sounds very pleasant to my ears at least.

Its built like a tank. I've ordered 2 x KT-2A as they are the ones with the link for stereo processing...and of course the valves...which at such a price point might need replacing, but they are not expensive units and my experience with the 76-KT made me order them straight away.

I am not thinking about the EQP-KT at this point, mainly because I am used to using subtractive EQ (plug ins don't sound great when boosting frequencies, but are gold for subtracting them, imo anyway)...but I am not excluding the possibility of getting two EQP-KT as well and just build a hardware master insert chain.

Basically this for me is a cost effective way to mainly to educate my self and because I am very surprised at how good the 76-KT sounds for 215€!


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Post by Panason » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:45 am

Thanks for the info. I thought the plugins were OK but I don't really push them and now you got me thinking .

I still don't fully understand compression and not sure I will understand it by reading about it. A hardware unit could be a better teacher. .

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Post by nectarios » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:59 am

UAD1176 (the plug in) vs 76-KT.
Same attack (3), release (6), 8 button in, -10dB gain reduction on both.
Matched the levels on the meters (yes, one sounds louder). If you want to do perceived loudness test, import in your DAW/sampler/whatever.

https://we.tl/t-E1f7NSUYGf?src=dnl

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Post by Panason » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:28 am

A is the plugin and B the hardware? B sounds more meaty... could you have gotten the same fatness with the plugin using slightly different settings?

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