500 series again...

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mousegarden
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500 series again...

Post by mousegarden » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:20 am

Still contemplating this, I've got a thing about that API graphic EQ...

Image

A couple of channels of this would be very nice, plus a couple of Harrison EQ modules.
It's getting the rack though, it bumps up the price of everything, but it's still cheaper than buying rack units. I'm trying to convince myself, but not doing very well. It's "about" £2,200 GBP for 2 graphic EQ's and a box!!!

:hmm:

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Post by rowsbywoof » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:10 am

Get a cheap Lindell rack, they have a 10 space. Barebones, but great for the cash. I bought and filled a 6 space, and I’m now looking at getting a 10. You can pay more for the chassis, but I don’t see a lot of value in the pricier boxes. The Neve 500 series chassis offer nothing I can see over a Lindell or Bento box. The routing options of the API boxes seem weird, I’d much rather run cables than use toggle switches in the back to connect units... I’d save the money and get better modules, and that’s exactly what I did.

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Post by tIB » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:21 am

I bet it sounds great but the panel width would kill it for me - too small for those sliders is my take...

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Post by BugBrand » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:00 am

They don't do the 560, but CAPI have some temptations for sure (mainly DIY): http://capi-gear.com/catalog/index.php

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Post by defutura » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:43 am

BugBrand wrote:They don't do the 560, but CAPI have some temptations for sure (mainly DIY): http://capi-gear.com/catalog/index.php
It seems they have an 11 space rack, as well.

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Post by locust_locust » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:11 am

I went with the RND R10 chassis and haven't regretted it.

Everything in my studio is on TT bays so it is easy enough to integrate- I just wish it had DB25's for the first 8 channels.

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Post by Futuresound » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:14 am

I still haven't taken the plunge, but the Radial sixpack has all the routing and IO options you could want, though stereo and chaining switches are around back.

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Post by keninverse » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:41 pm

Capi-gear VPR with the floor PSU is around $700 USD but you have to put it together. If you just go for the switching PSU then the price drops to ~$500. I just wished it was all powder coated.

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Post by calaveras » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:00 pm

rowsbywoof wrote:Get a cheap Lindell rack, they have a 10 space. Barebones, but great for the cash. I bought and filled a 6 space, and I’m now looking at getting a 10. You can pay more for the chassis, but I don’t see a lot of value in the pricier boxes. The Neve 500 series chassis offer nothing I can see over a Lindell or Bento box. The routing options of the API boxes seem weird, I’d much rather run cables than use toggle switches in the back to connect units... I’d save the money and get better modules, and that’s exactly what I did.
This is bad advice. Your 500 series modules depend on the power supply of the rack. If it's a cheap rack with a poor quality PCB and mediocre power. You will hear more noise and less isolation between adjacent modules.
Better racks also treat your expensive ass 500 series modules better. Having better mechanical tolerance, and more elegant solutions for securing and stabilizing the units in each slot.

If you get into 500 series with the idea of saving money. You are deluding yourself. It's like eurocrack, but even more expensive.

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Post by Futuresound » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:26 pm

calaveras in theory I agree - in some sense, all you are actually listening when listening to sound from your gear is the power supply. But then, surely someone would have been able to provide measurements or audio examples of cheap 500 racks being noisier or less dynamic than expensive ones. If nothing else, I’d expect the manufacturers of the expensive racks to tout their measurements, it would be a tremendous marketing tool - but none of them do.

It’s a strange situation, to be sure.

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Post by mousegarden » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:59 am

calaveras wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:Get a cheap Lindell rack, they have a 10 space. Barebones, but great for the cash. I bought and filled a 6 space, and I’m now looking at getting a 10. You can pay more for the chassis, but I don’t see a lot of value in the pricier boxes. The Neve 500 series chassis offer nothing I can see over a Lindell or Bento box. The routing options of the API boxes seem weird, I’d much rather run cables than use toggle switches in the back to connect units... I’d save the money and get better modules, and that’s exactly what I did.
This is bad advice. Your 500 series modules depend on the power supply of the rack. If it's a cheap rack with a poor quality PCB and mediocre power. You will hear more noise and less isolation between adjacent modules.
Better racks also treat your expensive ass 500 series modules better. Having better mechanical tolerance, and more elegant solutions for securing and stabilizing the units in each slot.

If you get into 500 series with the idea of saving money. You are deluding yourself. It's like eurocrack, but even more expensive.
MMMmmmm, interesting.
Why do I want a 500 rack?
I don't need to save space, I now need a decent mic pre, Compressor, and EQ.
But if those things were 1U each they wouldn't take up any more room than a 500 rack.
Also, you're right, 500 wouldnt save me money, I'd probably end up buying things I really don't need.
OK, this thread has served its purpose, I'm not going to go down this road.

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Post by rowsbywoof » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:40 pm

calaveras wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:Get a cheap Lindell rack, they have a 10 space. Barebones, but great for the cash. I bought and filled a 6 space, and I’m now looking at getting a 10. You can pay more for the chassis, but I don’t see a lot of value in the pricier boxes. The Neve 500 series chassis offer nothing I can see over a Lindell or Bento box. The routing options of the API boxes seem weird, I’d much rather run cables than use toggle switches in the back to connect units... I’d save the money and get better modules, and that’s exactly what I did.
This is bad advice. Your 500 series modules depend on the power supply of the rack. If it's a cheap rack with a poor quality PCB and mediocre power. You will hear more noise and less isolation between adjacent modules.
Better racks also treat your expensive ass 500 series modules better. Having better mechanical tolerance, and more elegant solutions for securing and stabilizing the units in each slot.

If you get into 500 series with the idea of saving money. You are deluding yourself. It's like eurocrack, but even more expensive.
I disagree.

So does Sound on Sound, as per the Lindell racks.

So do a lot of folks.

They provide more power than most per slot and are a solid build quality, especially for the cash. They have quality external power supplies (they were internal, but the newer models have been made external to contend with noise) and they're excellent value for a surprisingly high quality piece of kit. So... Yeah, going to say you don't know the Lindell units at all (though, maybe I should have kept my recommendation to those as I know and use one).

Plus, I think the 6 slot is super clean looking :)

Image

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Post by DSC » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:32 pm

Lindell's stuff is solid! Well built and engineered.

Image

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Post by calaveras » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:09 pm

rowsbywoof wrote:
calaveras wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:Get a cheap Lindell rack, they have a 10 space. Barebones, but great for the cash. I bought and filled a 6 space, and I’m now looking at getting a 10. You can pay more for the chassis, but I don’t see a lot of value in the pricier boxes. The Neve 500 series chassis offer nothing I can see over a Lindell or Bento box. The routing options of the API boxes seem weird, I’d much rather run cables than use toggle switches in the back to connect units... I’d save the money and get better modules, and that’s exactly what I did.
This is bad advice. Your 500 series modules depend on the power supply of the rack. If it's a cheap rack with a poor quality PCB and mediocre power. You will hear more noise and less isolation between adjacent modules.
Better racks also treat your expensive ass 500 series modules better. Having better mechanical tolerance, and more elegant solutions for securing and stabilizing the units in each slot.

If you get into 500 series with the idea of saving money. You are deluding yourself. It's like eurocrack, but even more expensive.
I disagree.

So does Sound on Sound, as per the Lindell racks.

So do a lot of folks.

They provide more power than most per slot and are a solid build quality, especially for the cash. They have quality external power supplies (they were internal, but the newer models have been made external to contend with noise) and they're excellent value for a surprisingly high quality piece of kit. So... Yeah, going to say you don't know the Lindell units at all (though, maybe I should have kept my recommendation to those as I know and use one).

Plus, I think the 6 slot is super clean looking :)

I'm not saying Lindell is garbage. Apologies if my post came across that way. But the advice to just get the cheapest thing that can possibly hold and power a 500 series is bad advice. You should never cheap out on foundational elements of your sound gear.

I'm always going to aim higher on stuff like 500 series racks, eurorack power supplies, DI boxes etc.
Yeah the Rupert Neve and Radial racks cost more, but that price pales in comparison to what you are going to be loading it up with.

Also, we are not talking about guitars or beatboxes here. 500 series are pretty specifically for recording. In most cases when you are recording the goal is to capture the performance with the least noise, EFI or crosstalk and the most headroom, bandwidth and clarity. Again, not saying anything is wrong with Lindell, but that your goal in getting recording gear should be best, not cheapest.
I'd rather have two golden channels of ruler flat high dynamic range euphonic goodness than 16 channels of good enough.

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Post by grillo » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:43 pm

calaveras wrote:
I'm not saying Lindell is garbage. Apologies if my post came across that way. But the advice to just get the cheapest thing that can possibly hold and power a 500 series is bad advice. You should never cheap out on foundational elements of your sound gear.
yeah but... Lindell is actually the cheapest, or very close to. :despair:

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Post by Dave Peck » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:27 pm

mousegarden wrote: Why do I want a 500 rack?
I don't need to save space, I now need a decent mic pre, Compressor, and EQ.
But if those things were 1U each they wouldn't take up any more room than a 500 rack....
Sounds like you need a 1U tall 19" rack mounted 'channel strip'. There are lots to choose from, but THIS one is actually three separate 500 series devices in a slim 1U tall rackmount chassis:

https://vintageking.com/bae-r53cs-channel-strip

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Post by mousegarden » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 am

Dave Peck wrote:
mousegarden wrote: Why do I want a 500 rack?
I don't need to save space, I now need a decent mic pre, Compressor, and EQ.
But if those things were 1U each they wouldn't take up any more room than a 500 rack....
Sounds like you need a 1U tall 19" rack mounted 'channel strip'. There are lots to choose from, but THIS one is actually three separate 500 series devices in a slim 1U tall rackmount chassis:

https://vintageking.com/bae-r53cs-channel-strip
This is going to be a very tough and agonising purchase. My known and loved mic pre is now defunct. I knew it would happen one day, and, I must have a mic pre, I can't do without one.
The trouble is....I have to listen to potential purchases, which is actually very difficult, you end up doing it on sale or return, so I have to come up with a short list.
The Broadhurst Gardens range is on my list, plus Crookwood, I'm looking for a very transparent, low noise design, with plenty of gain. I'm also looking at the AEA preamps.
Lots of gain, low noise, high headroom, my broken preamp has all of that, its a tough act to follow, at any price. I'm going to attempt a repair, but my knowledge is limited, and I doubt if anyone else would want to take on a DIY repair.

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Post by taylor12k » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:09 am

the 560 is a no-brainer... amazing for cutting out large areas of unwanted frequencies.

if you’re looking for a transparent, super natural sounding pre, look at the Millenia. one of the go-to pres for classical due to its clean and natural sound.

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Post by Dave Peck » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:14 pm

mousegarden wrote: I must have a mic pre, I can't do without one.
The trouble is....I have to listen to potential purchases, which is actually very difficult, you end up doing it on sale or return, so I have to come up with a short list.
The Broadhurst Gardens range is on my list, plus Crookwood, I'm looking for a very transparent, low noise design, with plenty of gain. I'm also looking at the AEA preamps.
Lots of gain, low noise, high headroom, my broken preamp has all of that, its a tough act to follow, at any price. I'm going to attempt a repair, but my knowledge is limited, and I doubt if anyone else would want to take on a DIY repair.
I hope you can get your pre amp fixed. That would of course be the best possible option.

But if you end up looking for a new one, I have another suggestion - I've been doing some consulting work for Undertone Audio for a few years now and their MPEQ-1 mic pre / EQ is excellent. It's also extremely versatile, and can be either extremely clean or quite colored. Both the mic pre section and the EQ section have a LOT of controls that allow yo to get a huge variety of tones out of this thing.

Info is here:

http://www.undertoneaudio.com/products/mpeq-1

and

https://vintageking.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=MPEQ-1

Image

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Post by mousegarden » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:07 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
mousegarden wrote: I must have a mic pre, I can't do without one.
The trouble is....I have to listen to potential purchases, which is actually very difficult, you end up doing it on sale or return, so I have to come up with a short list.
The Broadhurst Gardens range is on my list, plus Crookwood, I'm looking for a very transparent, low noise design, with plenty of gain. I'm also looking at the AEA preamps.
Lots of gain, low noise, high headroom, my broken preamp has all of that, its a tough act to follow, at any price. I'm going to attempt a repair, but my knowledge is limited, and I doubt if anyone else would want to take on a DIY repair.
I hope you can get your pre amp fixed. That would of course be the best possible option.

But if you end up looking for a new one, I have another suggestion - I've been doing some consulting work for Undertone Audio for a few years now and their MPEQ-1 mic pre / EQ is excellent. It's also extremely versatile, and can be either extremely clean or quite colored. Both the mic pre section and the EQ section have a LOT of controls that allow yo to get a huge variety of tones out of this thing.

Info is here:

http://www.undertoneaudio.com/products/mpeq-1

and

https://vintageking.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=MPEQ-1

Image
Thanks Dave, I haven't had a chance to take the cover off of my preamp yet, hopefully I'll be able to repaire it.

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Post by rowsbywoof » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:56 pm

calaveras wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:
calaveras wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:Get a cheap Lindell rack, they have a 10 space. Barebones, but great for the cash. I bought and filled a 6 space, and I’m now looking at getting a 10. You can pay more for the chassis, but I don’t see a lot of value in the pricier boxes. The Neve 500 series chassis offer nothing I can see over a Lindell or Bento box. The routing options of the API boxes seem weird, I’d much rather run cables than use toggle switches in the back to connect units... I’d save the money and get better modules, and that’s exactly what I did.
This is bad advice. Your 500 series modules depend on the power supply of the rack. If it's a cheap rack with a poor quality PCB and mediocre power. You will hear more noise and less isolation between adjacent modules.
Better racks also treat your expensive ass 500 series modules better. Having better mechanical tolerance, and more elegant solutions for securing and stabilizing the units in each slot.

If you get into 500 series with the idea of saving money. You are deluding yourself. It's like eurocrack, but even more expensive.
I disagree.

So does Sound on Sound, as per the Lindell racks.

So do a lot of folks.

They provide more power than most per slot and are a solid build quality, especially for the cash. They have quality external power supplies (they were internal, but the newer models have been made external to contend with noise) and they're excellent value for a surprisingly high quality piece of kit. So... Yeah, going to say you don't know the Lindell units at all (though, maybe I should have kept my recommendation to those as I know and use one).

Plus, I think the 6 slot is super clean looking :)

I'm not saying Lindell is garbage. Apologies if my post came across that way. But the advice to just get the cheapest thing that can possibly hold and power a 500 series is bad advice. You should never cheap out on foundational elements of your sound gear.

I'm always going to aim higher on stuff like 500 series racks, eurorack power supplies, DI boxes etc.
Yeah the Rupert Neve and Radial racks cost more, but that price pales in comparison to what you are going to be loading it up with.

Also, we are not talking about guitars or beatboxes here. 500 series are pretty specifically for recording. In most cases when you are recording the goal is to capture the performance with the least noise, EFI or crosstalk and the most headroom, bandwidth and clarity. Again, not saying anything is wrong with Lindell, but that your goal in getting recording gear should be best, not cheapest.
I'd rather have two golden channels of ruler flat high dynamic range euphonic goodness than 16 channels of good enough.
I hear what you're saying. You're definitely right there, and I was being a bit dismissive with my previous answers. I didn't go out and buy blind, and I guess that's a little of what I'm saying to do with my first post: "Fuck it, just get whatever!" But, yeah, I did my research and found Lindell brings a lot to the table for a lot less than other chassis and I've heard there are others that do as well... But, yeah, when you look at what I have in my rack, the $300-400 I saved on the chassis is laughable. It's not really that big of a deal.

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Post by mousegarden » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:46 am

Dave Peck wrote:
mousegarden wrote: I must have a mic pre, I can't do without one.
The trouble is....I have to listen to potential purchases, which is actually very difficult, you end up doing it on sale or return, so I have to come up with a short list.
The Broadhurst Gardens range is on my list, plus Crookwood, I'm looking for a very transparent, low noise design, with plenty of gain. I'm also looking at the AEA preamps.
Lots of gain, low noise, high headroom, my broken preamp has all of that, its a tough act to follow, at any price. I'm going to attempt a repair, but my knowledge is limited, and I doubt if anyone else would want to take on a DIY repair.
I hope you can get your pre amp fixed. That would of course be the best possible option.

But if you end up looking for a new one, I have another suggestion - I've been doing some consulting work for Undertone Audio for a few years now and their MPEQ-1 mic pre / EQ is excellent. It's also extremely versatile, and can be either extremely clean or quite colored. Both the mic pre section and the EQ section have a LOT of controls that allow yo to get a huge variety of tones out of this thing.

Info is here:

http://www.undertoneaudio.com/products/mpeq-1

and

https://vintageking.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=MPEQ-1

Image
My existing preamp has a lot of good features, two stereo channels (four faders) M&S, phase reverse, three line outputs for recording and monitoring, plus a built in test tone. 80db of gain, high headroom and virtually noiseless.
All inputs are on 5 pin XLR, one per stereo channel. It means I can run a single 4 core cable on stereo runs, great if you're in a large church or hall.
So at the minimum I'm going to need a stereo preamp.

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Post by slumberjack » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:36 pm

sorry for hijacking this thread: been researching the 500series market now a while and figured out a plan to expand my setup into this direction.
when it comes to eq/channelstrips, where would you spot the difference between api, ssl and neve?

i never had the chance to be in a studio with any of these things and i don't have the a possibility to try all of them out in a shop before i buy them, so i cannot compare.
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Post by mousegarden » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:08 am

slumberjack wrote:sorry for hijacking this thread: been researching the 500series market now a while and figured out a plan to expand my setup into this direction.
when it comes to eq/channelstrips, where would you spot the difference between api, ssl and neve?

i never had the chance to be in a studio with any of these things and i don't have the a possibility to try all of them out in a shop before i buy them, so i cannot compare.
If your location stops you from trying things out, or having a demo, my advice is that it's worth putting money aside to travel to somewhere where you can, or even hire a studio for a day that has things you want to try, believe me, it's worth the investment, it could save you a ton of money and aggravation.
No matter what people say, it's only going to be their opinion, it's you that has to make the final decision, and price, reputation,and hundreds of endorsements from "industry pro's" will make no contribution to that decision whatsoever.
IMO if a mic pre has "a sound" it's no good, it should be a straight wire with gain, and that's very difficult to achieve, but if a coloured sound is what you're after I wouldn't pay too much money in that respect, it's just not worth it. An overloaded mixer mic channel will give interesting results.

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Post by slumberjack » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:36 pm

mousegarden wrote:
slumberjack wrote:sorry for hijacking this thread: been researching the 500series market now a while and figured out a plan to expand my setup into this direction.
when it comes to eq/channelstrips, where would you spot the difference between api, ssl and neve?

i never had the chance to be in a studio with any of these things and i don't have the a possibility to try all of them out in a shop before i buy them, so i cannot compare.
If your location stops you from trying things out, or having a demo, my advice is that it's worth putting money aside to travel to somewhere where you can, or even hire a studio for a day that has things you want to try, believe me, it's worth the investment, it could save you a ton of money and aggravation.
No matter what people say, it's only going to be their opinion, it's you that has to make the final decision, and price, reputation,and hundreds of endorsements from "industry pro's" will make no contribution to that decision whatsoever.
IMO if a mic pre has "a sound" it's no good, it should be a straight wire with gain, and that's very difficult to achieve, but if a coloured sound is what you're after I wouldn't pay too much money in that respect, it's just not worth it. An overloaded mixer mic channel will give interesting results.
thanks for your advice, sadly there isn't a shop which sells all these 500er series stuff around. maybe there's one but most stuff is ordered upon request.
i'm not into mic-pre/colored sound in the way you understood me. i have a tube mic pre with eq, comp/de-esser around. i'm asking more like line/instument eqing because i don't like to work that much with software eq's and i just don't now the differences beween these renowned manufactorers.
i mean i worked on a midas and soundcraft desks and i can tell e difference in how the eq sounds. i'm djing since quite a while and so i also kinda get where which products goes.
but maybe your right. i could find out where the distrubutors are in my region and i bet they all got showrooms.
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