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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Dub Mixing
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Dub Mixing
naturligfunktion
Hello fellow children of the stars,

Has anyone here any experience of producing dub style? That is, recording, fiddling, balancing and all that, and then route everything through a mixer, playing around with faders, delay and reverb?

I have an external mixer, a soundcraft signature. I record everything through this thing and I use it as a soundcard too. When a song is finished I usually open a track in ableton with channel 13/14 (which is the master fader), turn of my monitors and increase the volume to around -4 db (in case I want to send it to mastering later on).

But what if I want to take the finished songs with everything and to a little dub of it?

I suppose it is possible for me to do a live recording (just keep the monitors on basically). But I am usually out of channels at this point, so it is difficult to add reverb/delay.

Is there any other option? Give me your tips and trix

Jah, techno style
suboptimal
The old masters who invented dub worked with extremely simple equipment by today's standards. Maybe a pair of 4-track reel-to-reels, a 4-channel mixing board with a single mono filter, a single mono EQ, very simple. They'd bounce down if they needed more tracks. I'd say the "dubbest" thing to do is to find a way to make your equipment work for you, as though it is the only gear you can ever hope to afford.

It may also help if you imagine that you have to put out a half dozen dubs for the local sound system guys who are going to be coming by soon to play them at shows over the weekend.
CF3
There's been a few rather long threads on this topic here in the past, with some good info, if you do search.

Guinness ftw!
dubonaire
naturligfunktion wrote:
Hello fellow children of the stars,

Has anyone here any experience of producing dub style? That is, recording, fiddling, balancing and all that, and then route everything through a mixer, playing around with faders, delay and reverb?

I have an external mixer, a soundcraft signature. I record everything through this thing and I use it as a soundcard too. When a song is finished I usually open a track in ableton with channel 13/14 (which is the master fader), turn of my monitors and increase the volume to around -4 db (in case I want to send it to mastering later on).

But what if I want to take the finished songs with everything and to a little dub of it?

I suppose it is possible for me to do a live recording (just keep the monitors on basically). But I am usually out of channels at this point, so it is difficult to add reverb/delay.

Is there any other option? Give me your tips and trix

Jah, techno style


Well I have a Soundcraft Signature but it's the MTK22 and also an A&H Zed 22 FX so many more channels and onboard FX on both mixers, but I do it in real time most of the time. My approach is to route channels through the onboard FX or out of the AUX into pedals and back into a channel. I will often have low level feedback and delay on delay signal paths going.

If you are using Ableton you can also use the Utility Audio Effect to increase recording level on your 13/14 channel so you don't need to turn your monitors off.

The other thing you can do is record your individual channels, along with 13/14 so you can dub those channels later if you want.

Really, A lot of the best dub has minimal elements going anyway, so you should think about using your limited channel count as a creative limitation.
naturligfunktion
dubonaire wrote:


Well I have a Soundcraft Signature but it's the MTK22 and also an A&H Zed 22 FX so many more channels and onboard FX on both mixers, but I do it in real time most of the time. My approach is to route channels through the onboard FX or out of the AUX into pedals and back into a channel. I will often have low level feedback and delay on delay signal paths going.

If you are using Ableton you can also use the Utility Audio Effect to increase recording level on your 13/14 channel so you don't need to turn your monitors off.

The other thing you can do is record your individual channels, along with 13/14 so you can dub those channels later if you want.

Really, A lot of the best dub has minimal elements going anyway, so you should think about using your limited channel count as a creative limitation.


Nice! I also route AUX into pedals and then back again on a channel (usually channel 7/8 and 9/10). I usually record quite a long jam, with everything on one channel. Then I choose the best parts, loop them, and continues until there is a nice big soundscape. Throughout this time I usually have two or three recorded delay & reverb -tracks that are grouped together on channel 11/12.

But I almost never record channel 13/14 in this stage. I first check all the levels, arrange and all that. When the song is "done" I just increase the volume and press record. So there is never a final dubstage or what to call it, which I think would be pretty nice, and a fun way to add subtle life to the track.

I will try the Utility effect, think that will do the trick.

Quick question tho: do you also get a slight latency/delay when you have the USB RTN engaged? If so, how do you get around that dilemma?
dubonaire
naturligfunktion wrote:


Quick question tho: do you also get a slight latency/delay when you have the USB RTN engaged? If so, how do you get around that dilemma?


Not that I have noticed. If you are using Ableton you should read Ableton's reducing latency help page, if you haven't already.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209072289-How-to-reduce-lat ency
Chevron87
Check Prince Fatty from the UK. He has some very cool tips and a fine knowledge on some rare gear that gets you some superb dub sounds!
Chevron87
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmEwSLuUbsI
dubonaire
Chevron87 wrote:
Check Prince Fatty from the UK. He has some very cool tips and a fine knowledge on some rare gear that gets you some superb dub sounds!


Your post reminded me of the many fine dub threads on this forum. I know Prince Fatty is mentioned in at least one of the threads.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/search.php?search_keywords=dub&searc h_terms=extended&search_author=&search_forum=-1&search_time=0&search_f ields=all&sort_by=0&sort_dir=desc&show_results=topics&return_chars=200
naturligfunktion
Chevron87 wrote:
Check Prince Fatty from the UK. He has some very cool tips and a fine knowledge on some rare gear that gets you some superb dub sounds!


I absolutely love a video with him from resident advisor or something, in which he talks about the production behind dub. Absolutely excellent.

dubonaire: will check that thread out thanks!
xclark
Chevron87 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmEwSLuUbsI

Educational! I just learned so much. This is fun!
Panason
How come Mr Fatty seems to have no acoustic treatment in that room?
snercle
to get that nice rough texture which i think is a part of so many great dub mixes
- it's a good idea to use 70s tape machines / reel to reel (just the inputs and outputs will do, they have that sound) for example: most copicat tape echos, fostex, tascam, teac and old akai equipment will give that almost crunchy "live" sound to the signal.

- if the sound source is a bit wonky / organic that helps, it's hard to get a software sampler to sound like that, but not impossible.

- real tape echo and guitar amps with spring reverb (some spring reverb racks are a bit too flat i find)

- and just tweak the settings all the time, don't settle and leave it on a setting you like just to be safe
unrecordings
snercle wrote:
to get that nice rough texture which i think is a part of so many great dub mixes
- it's a good idea to use 70s tape machines / reel to reel (just the inputs and outputs will do, they have that sound) for example: most copicat tape echos, fostex, tascam, teac and old akai equipment will give that almost crunchy "live" sound to the signal.

- if the sound source is a bit wonky / organic that helps, it's hard to get a software sampler to sound like that, but not impossible.

- real tape echo and guitar amps with spring reverb (some spring reverb racks are a bit too flat i find)

- and just tweak the settings all the time, don't settle and leave it on a setting you like just to be safe


Lock the tonmeister out of the room, fuck the acoustics, fuck the noise, let loose and don't be afraid. Let serendipity take control. My cat once did the perfect break down: I think it was Ah Pook (normally banned from the studio due to his territory marking) - He strode across my Allen & Heath GS3, first hitting the solo button then made his way across the channel mutes (thereby un-muting the channels) heading for the attic window. The DAT was not recording (let that be a lesson)
jbuonacc
unrecordings wrote:
... I think it was Ah Pook (normally banned from the studio due to his territory marking) ...


f'ing lol. applause
unrecordings
jbuonacc wrote:
unrecordings wrote:
... I think it was Ah Pook (normally banned from the studio due to his territory marking) ...


f'ing lol. applause


I loved that cat but he broke my heart. I had to break into a house once to rescue him. He used to very gently hook a claw up one of my nostrils at 4am then yank it back to wake me up. And he used to piss. He once got in the studio and nearly got the floppy drive of my Yamaha VL1m. And he pissed on me... while I was having a piss
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